BPDFamily.com

I need a little moral support.

My ex-friend rang me. I answered the call. We had a brief discussion which went along the lines that she didn't understand why I had been behaving "strangely" for the last few months. I've been avoiding her, but she didn't directly say that. She always talks in riddles and skirts around the issue. Why not just ask, "why have you been avoiding me?". It's very frustrating.

I simply DO NOT believe she doesn't know. If she really didn't know and was upset, why did she wait months to ring me and ask? Wouldn't you want to know asap? I didn't tell her because I refuse to be drawn into that trap. I know if I had told her she would have trivialised the event and tried to make me look petty.

Is it common for BPDs to pretend they have no idea why you are angry with them? Or are they so ___ed up they really don't know?

I also told her I think I trigger her, so we can't be friends. She ignored this comment. I thought she might say "what do you mean?" or something similar. Either she didn't hear it or she knows more than she is letting on.

I'm proud of myself for standing my ground, but I'm feeling ___ty after the call. I was as nervous as hell during the call and didn't have time to gather my thoughts. I feel like sending her a text to clarify my thoughts, but I don't want to get into a text war with her.

Please tell me what I did right and what I did wrong. Don't sugar coat it. Is there anything else could i have said?  I still have to see this woman socially and I want to make it as painless as possible.

bruised (and now bleeding)

I think they enjoy hearing you explain your hurt over and over ... atleast with my ex anyway... I could say I was hurt right after an insult ... he would say for what?

No doubt they like to hear what they are doing to us in detail... kinda sick

In that case I'm really glad I didn't take the bait.

Mine would do that all the time. He would tell me he liked seeing the reaction he got out of people.

He would laugh and get off on it... . then say I needed to understand his sense of humor and take a joke.

Bizarre stuff ppl.

Thanks for the reply. I think my friend is the same. It's a sick game for her.

I was feeling a little guilty after the call, but you've dragged me back into the light. She is toxic. I have to keep reminding myself of this.

I'm Soo glad I stood my ground.

It's almost like a conquest for them I swear dude!

How fast can I make them feel like sh** about themselves...

Or... . man I really have that sort of power over them?

pathetic. sweet.

It's a power trip for them. My ex would always try to make me jealous

of other girls (devaluing my looks)

then be like whaaaat? *with a grin* I wouldn't sleep with you or be with you if I didn't

think you were sexy.

umm at first it was cute like punch him in the arm cute. After awhile... .

Yea... .

Yep. Now the power has been taken away from her and she doesn't like it.

My take is different.  She is asking why you disappeared.  She is a human being who had a close r/ship with you ... . on these boards we are constantly detailing how awful it makes us feel to have no "closure," when our pwBPD disappears without explaining why in a way that makes any sense.

Why would we want to do that to another person?

For various reasons including mental illness, which presumably you believe your friend suffers from which is why you are on this board, people often don't have a lot of insight into their own behaviors and the reactions of others to those behaviors.  How are they ever supposed to gain information and insight if those who are hurt by their behaviors hide the ball and won't explain in response to a fairly direct inquiry?

For other reasons, you may need to shield yourself from this conversation (if you might be terribly injured by what she would say in response to you explaining your departure), in which case, saying politely something like "I understand you want to discuss this; I'm not in a place right now where I can do that without a lot of hurt, but if that changes, I'll let you know. I hope you're OK and I'm sorry things ended like they did."

You can acknowledge her humanity, the reasonableness of her question and that you two used to care a lot about each other, without opening up to a conversation you're not ready for.

Or, if you are ready, you could just answer her question, understanding that pwBPD have a hard time hearing even implied criticism or any account of your hurt.  But if you are able to detach from any reaction she may have, you might consider just answering her question straightforwardly and kindly.

Hi patientandclear,

Thank-you for your response. This is what I sometimes struggle with. How much of her behaviour (if any) was designed to hurt me and how much is out of her control? But, even if it is out of her control, why doesn't she acknowledge it later? 

It's terribly confusing and you've got me thinking I should send her a text to give HER some closure (even if I don't get any).

Kind regards,

bruised

I think the NC advice is the only way to go. This is months later could she just be attempting a recycling? If my ex called me now I wouldn't answer. I'm sorry but it sounds like baiting to me to draw you in. BPD's don't need closure. You probably just popped into her mind and she called. Apparently they don't spend months pining for us or thinking how we think. I doubt very much she's been ruminating on this the whole time. But that's just my opinion and I'm a tad angry ATM. I think on the hop you handled it pretty well and didn't get too sucked back in. If you follow up with a text tho you will

Too late Narellan! I sent her a text.

I'm not worried about a recycle though. There's no future in our friendship. I told her i was sorry things didn't work out, but her push-pull behaviour makes it very difficult to be her friend. I wished her happiness. She hasn't responded yet, and she may never. I won't be upset if she doesn't. That would just mean we are back to MC which we have been for months anyway. I've said my piece and I feel much better.  :)

Haha yep I understand. We are all different. If I'd done that I would now be hanging around my phone checking it constantly wondering why no reply, ruminating possible reasons for no reply, check phone again, reread what I'd sent, does it read ok, making sure phone was charged, maybe I should have worded this/ that differently, maybe I've made him/her angry, thinking about what they're doing, still at work maybe hasn't checked phone, etc etc. it would consume me. Then I'd be wishing I hadn't sent it. Lol.

Are you hoping for a reply or silence? Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

I'm hoping for a reply, but I won't be sad if I don't get one.  Like you, I used to hover over my phone waiting for a response. I don't anymore. I really believe I have detached.

I think she would have been happy to receive my message. She may not know what to say, she may need a few days to process it, she may still be pissed/upset after our phone conversation. She may think she has the upper hand because I texted her. Who knows? She is very complicated.  I don't want to lose any sleep over it.

Bruised,

I can understand having your emotions all over the place when we are forced to set a boundary with a friend and we are not used to doing something like that.  It can be really confusing when we think we are clear and the other person is either: not hearing us or actively choosing to ignore our request - either way, it is frustrating.

I am a bit confused by what you actually want though - I mean, why did you text her if you really don't want to be friends?  For her to believe what you say - you will have to align your actions and words to stop your part of the push/pull dance.

Keeping it simple and superficial will work if you let it since you say you have to see her socially - I have people I do this with... . there is plenty of pop culture to talk about or suddenly needing a bathroom break in social situations... .

She asked why you were avoiding her and you answered - you texting her after looks a little push/pull from you now from what you wrote.  For now, do nothing - be bland and boring if she contacts you... . anything else sets you up for another round of push/pull.

Does this make sense?

Just for a moment I'm putting myself in her shoes as the BPD. You pop into my head and I wonder if there's still an attachment there so I call. You answer so that's positive. You don't give away too much but at least you want to talk to me. After 8 months that's good news. Phone call ends I go about my business, not giving it another thought but secretly pleased I haven't lost you for good. Then u text me. So I will feel a bit out of control, this is my game I'm not sure what to do from here. I was just testing the water.

Who knows? I could be right off with this but keep posting because ill be dealing with this soon enough too and want to arm myself with as much info as possible for my next recycle. X

Hi SB,

the text was only a follow-up to her phone call. The call didn't end well partly because I was caught off guard (I should have let it go to voicemail, although she wouldn't have left a message). I wasn't rude to her, but I wasn't exactly gentle either. I will be sitting at a dinner table with her next week (mutual friends). I didn't want the phone call to be our last communication before we faced each other.

I will be bland and boring for now on. We have had electronic contact only 4 times in the last few months, and on each occasion she initiated it. This was first time I have responded with any "feelings". I'll try to keep a lid on it in future.

I can appreciate that, honestly.

What did your text say?


Right now, your feelings are not her concern - her feelings are... . I know that sounds harsh, but if you are trying to pull back, that fact can  help you remember - be bland.

There are some good workshops on the family board that might be applicable for you to learn some strategies - not to participate in necessarily, but learn LC strategies since it sounds you will indeed be in group situations with her.

Well, except that I told her I think I trigger her which makes her behave strangely towards me. And for that reason I don't think we could be friends. I meant this- it wasn't something I blurted out and regret saying. I've sort of been rehearsing this line for a while in case she called. So I don't think would have been secretly pleased after the call. 

And, she rang me about something trivial 2 weeks ago and we had a pleasant chat, so she knows I will take her calls.

Thank you all for your thoughts. I really appreciate it. It's so important to have an outsider's perspective.

I said I was sorry our phone call didn't end nicely. That I was caught off guard and that's why I had offered to call back later when I had gathered my thoughts. That our friendship was hard on me because of her push-pull behaviours. That I cared for her and wanted her to be happy.

I've absolutely no idea how she will take this, but it's the truth.

bruised

I feel you handled this as well as you could.  You got the call, you said some things, and the whole line about you being a "trigger" was good and honest.  You need to do what's best for your health, and if it ever comes up or you do speak with her... . You can say something along the lines of "I have to do what's best for my health, including staying away from certain things or people that cause me stress"... . you can find you own words for that... . but you did a good job... .

I just re-read my original post. I neglected to mention that her stated reason for calling me was to make sure we were "OK" for the dinner next week. It's a small group and she was worried it might be uncomfortable.

That's odd because, as I said, we had a pleasant chat 2 weeks ago. We've been out together twice since our "breakup" and it was cordial. In fact, the last time we were out she came over to me to thank me for something I had done for her. No dramas at all.

That's why I'm wondering what the real point of the call was.  

maybe it's best to stop analyzing it so much and just deal with things as they come with her.  If you can be cordial and civil and realize what her triggers are and avoid them, just let it be. If you feel and see that she is beahving a certain way either address it when it comes up appropriately or leave it alone. We can't change anyone, but like a previous post mentioned, I agree, that if someone in truely disordered they need insight, regardless of their reastions to the truth.  Finding the correct way to express it to can be tricky, because all their maturity levels vary.

Thanks Tolou,

I think the "trigger" thing needed to be said. It was me saying "I'm bad for you, which in turn makes you bad for me". I really hope I'm right about me triggering her. Because if I'm not, it possibly means she has a nasty streak and enjoys hurting me. I don't want to believe that.  OTOH, maybe she is just so dysregulated, that doesn't know what she's doing?

I'm really going to watch this space to see the outcome. I've been NC for 8 weeks, and I know sometime hell land in my doorstep. It's happened twice before. He lives nearby. I have nothing to say or hear from him, but if I just shut the door in his face is that going to escalate things? I just want him out of my life for good but I doubt that will happen. Am I better to do what u did and say a few brief words then shut the door ? I'm so easily charmed by gim it's pathetic. I tried to end this once before and ended up in bed with him 3 hours later and then it's all full on again. I can't go there again. But I have to open my door, and one day it will be him. I want to be prepared. NC or a few words to separate for good. Ill check back on here to see how it went.

Yep, VERY good advice!  |iiii

No response yet. Next contact might be face-to-face next week.

I think you are the trigger... . But, where you need to get is to place where you can't sit down think about what someone else thinking? That in itself for me, isn't rational, because I have been there.  Especially when someone is trying to speculate how a disordered person is thinking or feeling. Doing what you need to that is best for you, requires no explanation to no one... . If you know your triggers, one which may be her for you and how all this just makes you feel uncomfortable, then it's something that you have work... . If you really think this person is what you say, you just need to keep things brief and cordial, sometimes feeding her with a long spoon is the best thing you can do.  If she does cross boundaries you need to let it be known, communication is key.

Yes, I realised a while ago that I was driving myself crazy trying to work out her thought processes. I'm now much better at simply letting it go. This afternoon I caught myself wondering if I had said the wrong thing in my text. Then I pulled myself up. My text was respectful and caring. No rational person would be upset by it. And maybe she isn't upset by it. But if she chooses to put a sinister interpretation on it, well I can't help that.

Have you thought about how much you've thought about this girl today since the phone call ? :) not passing any judgement at all because if I broke NC i would be the same . ( read my earlier text re ruminating about texting wrong thing, wondering about why no response blah blah)

I think after all this time, without realising it and without meaning to you have let her back in. I think you had the best intentions, but from an outside point of view, look what's happened to YOU . She's in your head again. But maybe that's what you want I have no idea. I think NC is really hard, but having this in your life ongoing is harder still. My prediction is you will lose sleep over this, but I'm probably just projecting if it was me. 

Hi Narellan,

I have thought about it all afternoon. But you know what? I'm not feeling stressed about it. In the past I would have had a pit in my stomach and the thoughts of her would have been all-consuming. Now it's in my mind, but it's not distracting me from going about my normal routine.

I think I'm just worn out. I've wasted THOUSANDS of hours of my life stressing about this woman. I can't do it any longer. I DO care about her.  I DO want her to be happy as I said in my text to her- but I can't make it happen. I once suggested she see a counsellor when she hinted to me she was depressed. She flatly refused.

No, I don't want her back in my life. And I don't think I have let her back in. She seemed a bit angry when I told her I trigger her into behaving badly towards me. I don't think she saw that coming. In the past I was always very sympathetic when she poured her heart out about her issues. Even when I had heard it ten times before. I think she has a lot of anger simmering below the surface. Today I scratched the surface and a bit of that anger seeped out.

I'll let you know in the morning if I lost any sleep.  :)

:) yes ill check back in the morning. For some reason I think I'll lose sleep tonight. I've had a day off and spent most of it on here, so my situation is sitting heavily on my mind. I'm thinking about him coming to my door. I feel like I want him too now. Maybe he will declare that he's unwell. Then will I speak to him? Bottom line I can't have him in my life now, but if he needs help I also can't turn my back on him. I know he has this disorder. Maybe that's why I met him. I don't know why I can't be angry with him for very long. He's betrayed me in the worst way possible, why do I want to help him ? Maybe I like the drama? Maybe I'm the sick one. It's all I've known from living with bipolar ex hubby 23 years, I'm just so used to unpredictable, unstable highs and lows.

I've been reading back through this tread. So much good advice.


S-B,

I think that's been the case from Day 1.

I'm keen to hear you thoughts on the contents of my text.

Regards

Your text, well - I am going to be blunt (shocking, right) - you apologized on one hand then you blamed her on the other... . this is YOU being push/pull.

Right now, you are on edge with all of this (I understand, been there too) - but until you really can look in the mirror and learn how to deal with your own emotions - you are likely going to keep doing your part of the dance.

You are doing the best you can with the skills you know. So, if we look back and she calls - let it go to VM.  Then, text back "sure no problem" (because you want to be there too, right?  Otherwise you shouldn't go). 

At this point, you "picking" on her behaviors - is that really fair or helpful?  You are hurt and lashing out - even if it is true, do you really think you saying it is going to magically say change her?

BE the person you want by ACTING that way.  So, if you want to be able to be in social situations you have to ACT easy even if you don't FEEL like it... . this is a form of emotional maturity.  Your feelings cannot rule your behaviors around you or her friends.  If it does, your friends are going to likely keep the "easiest" one to be around... . it is not fair, but it happens sometimes.

Bruised - I am being truthful with what I see on this thread, it doesn't mean I am right or that I understand it all fully.  I hope your feelings are not hurt.  From what you have written and the fact you are here, I think you want to detach from her, but still be "friendly".  When emotions are high - they must be processed.  This is another form of emotional maturity.   

Look to the right - 5 stages of detachment... . step 1 acknowledge your feelings - can you do that?  What are you feeling?

I commend you on posting this and asking for feedback - that takes courage. |iiii

Peace,

SB

Thanks S-B,

Yes I can see that my comments to her during the call were "push", while my text was "pull". I should have given the wording of the text more thought.

As to picking on her behaviours. Well, I had reached a point where I needed to say something. Her response to my "triggering" comment was "You've made me feel like a f**king idiot". Classic defensive response designed to elicit a backdown from me. I didn't back down, and I'm glad i didn't. I've heard her say that exact phrase about someone else who had called her out for something she did at a function. I suspect it's a standard phrase for her.

You're absolutely right about me acting cool in public with her, even if I don't feel it.

Gotta get back to work. Will write more in response later.

For Narellan,

I slept well last night. Doesn't mean I'll sleep well tonight tho!

 :) good for you! I didn't , awake and on here at 2 am lol

So she replied to my text.

She apologised for any hurt she had caused me. That's a breakthrough, because she's never apologised to me before. In the past she has said things like "I feel like an idiot for my behaviour last night" or mentioned how much she had to drink. This is the first time she has said "I apologise". It felt good to hear that.

She said she didn't like the feeling that it was all her fault and that I know she struggles with self-loathing. I don't know if this is true, or whether it's her way of shutting down criticism. I told her once that she had led me on and she replied that she would now be going into self-loathing. Do people who suffer self-loathing talk about it like that? Am I being too cynical?

She also said she wants to be friends, but respects the fact that I don't. I don't know what to make of that. Firstly, I'm not sure what her definition of 'friends' is. I think our friendship was causing her stress. Hence the push-pull. Secondly, I'm not convinced she really wants to be friends anyway. I suspect she's relieved I made the decision to end the friendship and she wants to make it look like it was all my doing. I may be wrong about that- time will tell.

I texted her back apologising for any hurt i have caused her and told her it wasn't all her fault. In the heat of the moment I said a friendship might work if we take it slowly (I know- I'm sending mixed messages. I couldn't help myself ). I followed up by saying I think I stress her out, and I wanted what's best for her. I probably could have worded that better.

Later that day we bumped into each other at a local store and we chatted briefly. She was very friendly and we had a laugh. That was nice.

So I'm going to continue as I have been. I won't contact her, but I will respond politely if she contacts me. That works for me and I think that's what she wants too.

Glad you had an easy exchange and feel better  |iiii


For the record, if someone routinely told me what I was feeling - I would not want to be around that person often.  Why do you feel the need to tell her "her" feelings?  This is something you did in the first exchange too.  It isn't about wording better, it is about letting her have her feelings.  Validation is a skill that must be practiced and used in the appropriate situations.  Validating a feeling versus telling a feeling are very different - it took me a while to really learn this and takes practice.



That can work easily as long as you do your part... . read up on the staying board so you have proper communication tools - honestly, it will help you so much.  |iiii

Cheers,

SB

Hi SB,

Thanks for the feedback.


Because she is the one who says she still wants to be friends. IF we do remain friends, she needs to understand that I am not Teflon coated. She can't just go to a party and treat me like ___ because she is in a bad mood. My other friends don't do that. And from my observations, she doesn't treat our mutual friends badly either- just me.

So, it's not the "feelings" that are the issue, it's the resulting behaviour. We BOTH need to work on this. She needs to be more mindful of the way she acts towards me. I need to be a bit less sensitive to her actions. As you say, communication is the key. I think I am actually a good communicator. She's not so good. I can't validate a feeling if I don't know what it is.

It's also worth mentioning, that we are both in relationships now. Having a very attractive female friend may not go down well with my new partner. And I don't want to have a secret friendship with this person. That's another complicating factor in this already complicated friendship.

I will move over to the staying board and do some reading on communication tools.

Thanks again for your insight.

I'm a bit confused why you're going to the staying board if you're both recoupled? You hit the nail on the head when u said about it all being complicated. The way she treats you is beyond her changing or improving because she's sick. You said you can't be friends with her if she treats u this way. This is her. She's going to treat you this way. The question is why do u let her? Why do u want her to play any role in your life? She's only going to cause you lots of grief as she had in the past. IMO best to put it all to rest, as you've done so well to recover and move on. It's a dead weight friendship that you and your new partner can do better without.

Just my interpretation, sorry if I sound blunt I'm a bit over this keeping us in their lives to rub more salt into the wounds and f#ck us up at any future opportunity.

Hi Narellan,

Sorry for the late reply- it's been crazy at work. I agree with you. I'm feeling really good at the moment and I have no desire to get entangled with her again. I should (and will) be putting all this wasted energy into my relationship.


No need to apologise. Sometimes blunt is good!

I know I am late to the party and that a lot of fine things have been said in this thread but I wanted to touch on one point you made bruised


A lot of people much smarter than I am have concluded that part of the instability of BPD is thought instability which manifest like this:

- All-or-nothing thinking (ex. loving  you so intensely and then just as quickly reversing to hating you or thinking that they are a total failure, or conversely immensely superior)

- Intense belief in their own perceptions despite facts to the contrary

- Their interpretation of events is the only truth

- Cannot be persuaded by fact or logic

- Do not see the impact of their own behavior on others

- Deny the perceptions of others

- Accuse others of saying or doing things they didn't say or do

- Deny (even forget) negative or positive events from the past that conflict with current feelings

Those aren't my words, they belong to Margalis Fjelstad but I found them to be so brilliant and so immediately helpful I wanted to include them here.

'ducks.