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Here is,what I have discovered... . Most people on this board are highly empathetic... . not in the,normal range but high. I think there are thred levels. Non empathetic... The normal range... . Then highly empathetic. Im in the latter extreme... . My empathy is so high I empathize witj every abuser in my life to my detriment. No anger... . (only fleeting) im not saying all of us are like this here... . But I have been this way since I was very young. My aunt tells me when I was a baby she would stoke my cheek and everytime I woud always cry. Very emotional/empathetic (theres more but thats the short)

Now tell me this: why is it non empathetic people are so attracted to me and I to them... . ? Is there anyone else who can relatd. There are a couple here I feel also are on the extreme end of empathy I can see it by their posts.

A new friend of mine admitted to me tonoght she has empathy problems...

And a therapist jas mentioned borderline to her... . It seems like a cruel joke nature keeps playing on me. And I have always felt inadequate about my empathy bc I have always been surrounded by these detached ppl who always seemed stronger than I.

Can anyone else relate? If this touches u in anyway pls respond. Im sick of feeling alone with deep empathy.

I think we're often attracted to what we don't have. Maybe because we don't fully understand it -- maybe because we think it will balance us somehow -- maybe we're trying to draw some of it into ourselves.

With PD traits, there's also the element of mirroring. Someone with low empathy could mirror it from a highly empathetic person... . the empathetic person thinks he's found another empath... . until the mask comes off.

Also, some truly non-empathetic people just might get a big kick out of f#cking over empathetic people. 


I'm very empathetic, too. Just like Bill Clinton said, "I feel your pain."    As I get older, because of and despite what I see and experience, the empathy seems to just deepen.

But in general it doesn't bother me, because I'm also usually able to be detached. Not in a cold, emotionless way -- rather an acknowledgment that pretty much everything in the world (except myself) is outside of my control. What helped me most in developing a healthy level of detachment to balance my deep empathy were Buddhist (mindfulness) practices and lots of volunteer work in trauma and crisis counseling. You can't emotionally survive that work if you don't learn how to detach while still providing empathy.

Of course, in close r/s's, I don't want to be detached. But god knows, I don't want to be enmeshed, either. I have made plenty of mistakes there, and I don't like how that feels. I just want to be able to be me. Empathetic and validating and supportive, but also sometimes selfish and "needy" (i.e., needing some level of empathy, validation, and support for myself). I've continually found myself in r/s's where I don't receive that... . to the point where I don't even feel deserving of it -- I kept opening my mouth to plead desperately for some emotional bread crumb but could only emit a pitiful squeak.

I can totally relate.

I think what happened to me in my relationship with my BPDx is that I could really empathize with her inner trauma and I wanted her to accept that I truly cared about her and would have done almost anything to help.

I would often find myself wishing i could somehow share consciousness with her so she could truly experience my love for her and know it was genuine caring and no wish to harm her.

Of course, that kind of shared mind is impossible currently, but maybe in the future. The question I have is, would I really want to enter her mind? What kind of dark and dangerous things would I know and how would it change me?

Don't know if this answer is true but from me spending months of reading and researching I've come across some information that might shed light on it.

Supposedly both BPD and Non BPD are damaged in similar ways from childhood but with different outcomes on the way that they carry out they're habits later on in adulthood.

For the BPD they shun away and split off certain parts of themselves such as empathy, loyalty, truthfulness, ect ect.

For the Non BPD they shun away and split off parts like rage, anger, hostility.

To put this in a sort of a math formula the BPD has embraced negative and the non has embraced positive

When I first read this theory I thought to myself why would I need to embrace negative energy but we actually need both negative and positive to be whole. AKA being balanced.

For me my mom was abused when I was a child when my father was on drugs so supposedly subconsciously I would make a decision to shun away anything that might cause me to do the same thing to another woman later on in life hence being empathetic to someone I think is in need.

Since the two have the other halves they both connect together and make a whole. 

AG's explanation resonates with me.

Perhaps some high empaths have learned to be that way by growing up in a dysfunctional FOO where it behoved us to learn to tread on eggshells and intuit the moods of another?  This became our survival mechanism and the way we relate to our significant others in later life.  Perhaps it also makes us gravitate naturally to those who require high levels of empathy in their lives, ie people with Personality Disorders who get so "misunderstood" by all around them, except us, of course... . ! 

My sister and I are very close, we have both had a history of dysfunctional relationships with emotionally abusive men.

We grew up with an emotionally neglecting father and mother, and after our parents divorced when we were young (8, 10 years), our mother married a man with whom we lived for 15 years very unhappily.  We are now convinced he suffered from NPD.  He was also very sexually inappropriate in front of us children and my mother did nothing to protect us.  He was extremely moody and emotionally abusive and we had to walk around on eggshells around him, as did my mother.

To this day, in our mid-forties, my sister and I both noticed how hypersensitive we are to the moods of others, even total strangers.

Just the other day, we were both in a situation together in a store, waiting in line for a cup of coffee, when some random man behind us started getting all antsy about having to wait in line, and he started getting verbally abusive to the guy in charge of making the coffee to go.  Immediately my sister and I wanted to jump in and "rescue" the coffee guy and give the other man a talking to, but we both had to restrain ourselves. When we walked out, we immediately both remarked how uncomfortable this guy had made us feel from the start when we were picking up on his negative attitude.  Everyone else around us seemed oblivious to what was going on.  We are the hypersensitive ones who pick up on the moods of others, and it bothers us.  We have both resolved to try to develop a "thicker skin" and just detach from such situations and people if possible.

I relate to this so much... .

And AG I wouldnt say im positive I can be a cynic but I get where you are going with this... . I agree with most of that... . Except the positive part. I dont feel I am necessarily the most positive but I have definetly split off rage and hostility. I RARELy get mad if ever and even when I do it is fleeting. I can easily forgive bc of this which is totally to my detriment.

I also tend to repress "negative" feelings such as anger, hostility, rage (I don't think I have ever raged in all my 45 years!   - what a little angel - not!  ).

I also let people off the hook and forgive soo easily.  I realise now it is not healthy to be too unassuming and too forgiving.  You have to hold people accountable for things they do to you.  You have to challenge them on how they have affected you in a negative way, or at the very least, just speak up and say "Stop! I don't like what you are doing and it is affecting me badly".

Instead, I stand around shell-shocked, dripping blood (figuratively speaking of course) and still I say, "Oh... . it's ok, I don't think I'm too badly hurt, I'll be ok... . don't worry. Things will be ok."

I want to develop healthy anger where it is due, then I want to be able to discharge it in a healthy way, challenge those who have hurt me, and deal with it and move on.

Me too... It feels like something is missing almost.

Like I want to feel anger and,i,just cant.

It almost always just develops into sadness.

I think we need the oposite of "anger management" classes! :)

Lol agreed! Do u feel like u attract a lot of ppl who are non empaths... Making u feel like empathy is a rareity?

Great thread. Totally agree. It is the only reason we could have been with BPD.

Two thoughts.

1) high empathy is a huge power. We can read people. We can understand what they want. We can feel what they feel and understand where they are coming from. This is an incredibly powerful thing if harnessed correctly. The world is run by people. Everyone's deepest needs are to feel heard and understood. We can do that. But, like any great power, it needs to be controlled and we need to understand ourselves, otherwise we fall prey to those out their that get off on hurting others to ease their own pain. Don't become less empathetic. Learn to be as empathic with yourself. This is the ultimately powerful thing.

2) Anger is also very powerful and we have it as part of the human emotional landscape for a reason. To tell people to f#ck off when they are hurting us. It is about survival. Being empathetic doesn't mean we can't also get very angry. Anger that gets improperly expressed is depression. Until you can access that anger, then you can't detach from the cause of the pain. It turns inwards. And that anger gets expressed towards the self.

If you've read my threads recently, you will see a progression from utterly depressed to anger and rage. It wasn't until I embarrassed that that I began to heal. I could knock this crazy b#tch off the pedestal and feel what my mind knows intellectually. That this person is ill, sick, floundering, and does not care about my well being and probably never did, only in the sense that it impacted her directly. F that. That is a person who will abuse without mercy and use everything in the book to get her way. We all deserve better. And the anger helps identify the source of the pain. Her. Of course it is important to identify why we got into these ridiculous situations in order to avoid them in the future. But to not be angry at them for hurting us so badly is to misidentify the cause of the pain. Abuse. It is called emotional abuse for a reason. If someone stabs you and you start bleeding it isn't ok to blame our sh#ty childhoods for the blood and the scars. You blame the person who stabbed you. Emotional abuse is no different. To blame ourselves for the pain we are in causes the depression. Let's stop that together. It's ok to take responsibility for being in the situation. But it is NOT ok to take the blame for their behavior and the subsequent pain afterwards. Let's stop being emotionally responsible for the results of the pain caused by people who emotionally stabbed us. F#ck those b#tches (and I mean b#tches in a gender neutral way... . because the men out their that act like this are b#tches too... . Someone please write a rap song about this.)

Hahaha! Ur awesome! I think its A power at time bc I can love and care deeply and im incredibly understanding.

It just feels really lonely. And ppl who dont feel suffer a lot less pain so sometimes they seem stronger

I am an empathetic person, I think some confuse empathy and sympathy.  I to saw myself in many situations where people make me uncomfortable because of their behaviors.  Maybe those are my tirggers? Someone once told me we attracted or attract people we are familiar with? Maybe some of the people we attract tend to replay roles that we had seen in the past and yet to resolve or acknowledge.  I have learned to not be this "rescuer" and it wouldn't have happened for being in this type of relationship and developing the insight to walk away when I did.  Because in my mind, if I walked away, I would be doing something wrong because of all the negative emotions and feeling that were involved.  But sometimes with doing the right thing, we feel it wrong because of associating negative feelings with "wrong"... . Doing the right thing hurts sometimes, and it doesn't mean it's wrong.  Something I have learned very well over the past two years.  I guess gaining better insight into our own emotions is better than trying to analyze or interpret someones elses.

Absolutely I can relate. I'm on the extreme end too. I watch things on tv that are supposed to be feel good stories and they make me cry. When someone is kind to me, in words or deeds I want to cry. I don't cry much tho. Mostly my world has been difficult and I have had to be the strong one for everyone else. Having said that, the past 7 weeks of split then NC, I've never cried so much in my life. I empathise and am attracted to people who are vulnerable. My job is caring for people with disabilities , my life is caring for my 3 sons. I overly attach to people. Just a recent example, out on the town a couple months ago and this obviously gay guy starts talking to me. We hang out all night and dance and have fun with him and his partner. We become FB friends. Since then he has private messaged me on several occasions to talk about his custody battles with ex wife, his suicidal thoughts and even asked for money at one stage. I talk to him about all of this and empathise and he feels better. I didn't give money just talk. I'm off FB now and so have nothing to do with him, but I have no idea why I needed to be a support for him anyway. He prob saw me as a mother figure, but this is just one story of several. I always meet people like this. I'm a magnet for dysfunctionality. I don't even know this gay guy, but he's told me his life story like I'm his saviour. I'm way too compassionate to my detriment. My T I saw two years ago suggested I go and volunteer in the local soup kitchen. I love the idea, but was put off by thinking I'd probably end up bringing some home and feeding them, or giving them money. My little sister is exactly the same. She volunteered at lifeline once, and took some of her money around to some poor person after her shift ended. It's really not a good thing to be too empathetic, my ex best friend was always borrowing money from me, she used my credit card details a couple of times without telling me. I had to stop that! She also asked me recently if she could bring a young guy to my house for sex! FFS of course I was gob smacked at that one. I'm very happy she's my replacement they really deserve each other. Karma at its finest !

It may be a good time to talk about empathy.  What it is and what it isnt.

Empathy is the ability to understand the emotions and experiences of another person.  It's also the ability to understand how ones actions affect others. 

Empathy doesn't necessarily equate to the same thing as highly sensitive (being personally emotionally sensitive) or influencing someone to not have appropriate boundaries with a person who treats you poorly.  It's not the same as fixing rescuing or trying to make someone feel better, or feeling sorry for them (synpathy).

Looking around the leaving board what doesn't seem common is empathy for people with BPD.  In a balanced way.  Seeing the facts about the disorder, how this disorder manifests in a person, how this person developed this disorder and way of coping.  This isn'tto say you excuse the behavior and that there arent very real consequences to actions but it isn't as black and white as people with BPD are horrible and lacking human qualities.

If I can suggest to others just coming to terms with the end of the relationship, is to grieve.  Try not to get caught up in the labels too much and to be mindful of your own empathy and black and white emotional fluctuations.  Sometimes in the hurt it's real easy to vilify the person as way to detach.

This is quite powerful:

Thank you green mango xx

Yes. Agreed with GreenMango. But, I think what got a lot of us in this mess is identifying too much with the other and not enough with ourselves. Part of grieving is reclaiming those feelings that got buried deep down and allowing those to come to the foreground. Thus, the anger is a crucial thing to feel and explore. If we are really highly empathetic at the cost of not doing that for ourselves, then it is really important to start to feel and acknowledge the way we felt. It is a way to helpfully reconstruct a self narrative to have cohesion within ourselves. Expressions of anger are healthy and necessary. If we identified too heavily with those that abused us (which I would assume many people here agree this happened), then it is very important to stop doing that and start identifying with our feelings. More empathy for the other does not lead to detachment. It is the whole reason why we were able to stay in these relationships that were ultimately destructive. Detachment means detaching, not identifying. We need to learn to identify with ourselves. And that means expressing and experience the anger that is just going to fester in us.

Exactly. I feel like I've taken back my voice again, something I nearly lost when with her. I can both empathize for her condition while also calling the dishonesty and abuse what it was. Frankly, I would NEVER knowingly enter a relationship with someone with BPD ever again, recovery or otherwise. I've had my fill.

I can really relate to that.

In this mix of empathy, sympathy, and codependency I found myself caring more about understanding and loving her than caring for, understanding, and loving myself.  It's like I perceived her as a tortured angel who, due to her very sad life circumstances, suffers from CPTSD and BPD, and that gave her a complete pass to hurt others including me and I would forgive and forget and understand where she's coming from.

Well, as long as she lets me save her :)

Now I still understand her very well and really care for her and not angry enough about her behavior but the big difference is that I took these energies and reflected them inwards, towards myself.

I understand myself better, I care about myself, I love myself better.

Really, I actually practiced that in front of a mirror.

When is the last time you looked yourself in the eye and told yourself you love you and you care for you and you'll do the best you can to protect you and to act upon your best interest?

Ali in all being empathic is a wonderful thing to be, and so is being a truthful, loving good person in general but that doesn't mean you have to abandon yourself in the equation.  Being over-empathic is to care about others more than your care about yourself.  You don't want to be there.  It's unsustainable and will destroy you.

Hugs too all good folks on this board. You are wonderful 

I love that post, trapped in love

Hi Hurtbeyondrepair27,

I've been asking myself those same questions.  Still don't know what the answer is.  Right now I am thinking that it might be because we don't get the normal reactions of appreciation from them that we do from healthy people who appreciate our caring.  A genuine smile, a hug and 'thank you' that is not just words but reflected in the eyes.  In my case I think I am trying too hard, doing too much because the lack of appreciation makes me feel that I am not doing enough.  Sure he says "thank you" and "I appreciate it", but his actions say differently.  The more I do for him the less respect he has for me and the less empathy I get from him in general.  I am working hard at doing less for him from now on.  Not so easy to hold back.  For example, he will be away all day due to some family thing.  I am so tempted to go and do his household chores for him so he can just relax when he gets back this evening!  I am forcing myself to not do it and instead am getting on with my own things.

I have been in a few relationships with BPD-type people and if I have been able to to fully see those people the way they really were then I would have stayed away becaues I'm not dumb. Actually I can recall each and every one of them at some stage questioning the sincerity of my interest in them because I seemed a bit detached and not honestly interested. Not I'm not sure I was that empathetic even though I was propably recruited as the classic "good listener" (i e "guy who shuts up and lets me talk".

Empathy is one-way. There is not necersarily any reciprocity involved. And had I been empathetic enough to see what those girls needed in their lives, then I would have asked some responsibility and response from them early on instead of letting them live in a bubble free of demands and preassures, agreeing with all the bull___ they were coming up with about their friends, teachers and bosses, just to please them.

my ex constantly questioned my love for him. Vwry frustrating

since I do love him very much.

Perdita... . exactly! Seems his respect dropped for me significantly

Once he realized "$h** this girl really DOES love me!"

thats when the taking advantage began!

When I turned my nose,up to him (because im out of his league and took me awhile to come around) thats when he respected/loved me the most!

Bizarre!

Yes, true in my case too.  Very one way, rarely recipocated and seems forced when it is.  Like I'm being thrown a bone.



I guess it happens when they realize they've got us and then the mask slowly starts to slip off.


Yes  It's like the more I do for him, the more I care, the less he needs me and the less he cares!  That's not how it should be in a healthy relationship.


 This is what his pedestal girl does.  Looks down at him and makes him feel she is doing him a favor by allowing him to spend money on her etc.  She treats all men like this and sooner rather than later they catch on and move on.  He doesn't.  

This is so true. Mine was gloating with glee when I said I love him. He posted it over and over in his FB messages to me Narellan loves... . Over and over with love hearts. As a kid would do. So warped.

My ex best friend( to be replacement) disliked him and never had a nice word to say about him. She said she was wary of him. But then she would be charmed and flirt with him in front of me. I think it's a challenge for him to bring her around and seek love and affection from her. I read on here somewhere that unrequited love and affection for the BPD really does their heads in.  This scenario combined with the thrill for him of it being my best friend and him wanting to hurt me I feel are his main motives here in pursuing her.

Great question.

As I have recovered from NPD/BPD abuse and begun to know myself very well, I have been shocked by just how hurt I can feel at other people's behaviour. Recently I posted about letting friendships go because I realised they were not actually there for me. I realise now that is is all related to your point.

One of those friends tried to patch things up recently and invited me to the opening of his new bar and we chatted about it. He said "I understand: you're just very sensitive". And it hit me... . I really am. I take everything so personally... . and I then internalise and blame myself before anyone else. So when someone is late, stands me up, doesn't follow through, seems less engaged or committed, I can freak out.

But the problem is... . EVERYONE seems to be like that! LOL. No-one seems to treat me with the same respect I show them, you know? And I don't know how to scale it back or dial it down. 7pm is 7pm to me. I would never leave someone waiting for an hour. A promise is a promise. There is no way I can say one thing and do another. I just don't get it. I don't know how to be less sensitive... . how to care less. And I am paying a huge price for this.

I am happy to know myself so well now, but live in a perpetual state of disappointment and an emerging resentment

BB12

Yes BB12 I'm exactly the same. Also I'm overly emotional. My friends tell me I have an open heart and love too much. I don't know how to close myself up a bit. I also don't know if I want to. I really love who I am. It's everyone else that sh#ts me lol ! I can't stand lying and cheating and negative people. I have no understanding or empathy for them. I love being with people, talking to people. And I attach very quickly due to my overly empathetic personality.

And I do take things personally because I don't understand any other way of thinking. The turning up at a particular time is very black and white to me. I feel not valued if I'm stood up. It's rude. Like everyone else's time is more valuable than mine.

I am easily offended. I'm offended by FB quote posts if I think they are directed at me.

I'm really not sure how to harden up without losing what I love about myself. I would love to meet people with the same core values, but they do seen few and far between.

And that's where it gets a little lonely at the top! LOL

I wish being overly sensitive was the top, but I fear it isn't. Just not working for me at all!

Like you, I attach very quickly to someone smart, funny and nice. But then they take things slowly (probably healthy) and I take it personally, so bail again... . not knowing how to interpret their restrained M.O. but usually interpreting it as lack of interest.

Tricky stuff. So much easier when I didn't know how life worked.

Knowledge is power! But self-knowledge does not adhere to the same rule.

BB12

Yes BB12 I hear you loud and clear.

Hi hurt, and it doesn't have to be beyond repair   look what you are doing for yourself, reaching out and learning!  

I agree with your original thought that there seem to be three levels. I'm not sure if I would call them levels of empathy but maybe levels of need and provision.

The first level may be many with personality disorders. Those people who are unable or unwilling to meet their own needs, physical, emotional, spiritual. At the other end may be many of us who post on this site, describing myself here, able to provide physically, emotionally and spiritually for myself AND believed I could do that for other adults as well.

So, it is easy to see why my xBPDh was attracted to me. I allowed him to be Peter Pan. The other question is why was I attracted to him?  Why wasn't I one of the healthy people who fall between these two extremes. The people who have empathy, but also know to ask for their own needs to be met and are able to meet others needs in appropriate and limiting ways.

This is where I want to be. I want to be able to ask others to help me out, that's hard for me. I want to be able to help others without becoming caught up in taking a problem on for them.

I can see it now. I can see when others are trying to put me in that position. Still hard to say no but I'm practising. Such a simple easy little word that has caused me so much grief by my inability to say it.

All the best, cumulus.

Interesting thread ... . and an idea I explored at length with my therapist earlier this year specifically in terms of how it contributed to the trauma bond I shared with my ex, as well as our ability to actually have a long term relationship with one another.

What I took away from those sessions:

The ability to feel empathy is something most of us are born with, and, some people are born with a greater ability to do that than other people. In both cases, that ability develops/grows with use. But some parents actually cultivate the development/growth/use of that ability in their children. Demand it. Expect it. Dole out severe emotional/physical punishment when its not forthcoming, inaccurate, and/or fails to provide whatever comfort/relief the parent needs. Empathy as a means of fixing, rescuing, caretaking - and fixing, rescuing, caretaking as a means of self survival.

Children made hyper-empathic by this kind of abuse live their lives on the constant lookout for, keenly aware of, and extremely responsive to the emotional distress of others. They grow up seeing this behavior as both a normal, and necessary part of being a good partner, friend, and person. They are sought out, and rewarded for it. They often take great pride in their ability to "read" others, and can even feel it's their job/obligation to do so.

What this kind of empathy actually represents, however, is a major violation of the boundaries people naturally set to protect themselves from people they don't know and/or aren't sure they can really trust.

And the only people who really like - if not actually need - to have their boundaries violated in this way are the same kind of people who trained their children to do it in the first place.

Borderlines are those kinds of people. They are most attracted to, and are able to have the most meaningful, long-term relationships with people who automatically respond to their most incongruous, confusing, and sometimes really hurtful words/actions - not by taking them at face value, and holding them responsible for it the way most people do - but, rather, by looking below the surface for the underlying emotional distress that prompted those words/actions, and addressing that instead through the provision of whatever understanding, acceptance, validation, sympathy, support, help it takes to relieve/eliminate the distress that made them say/do those kinds of things in the first place.

That's what I bonded with - my expwBPD's emotional distress - and the very confused/frightened person inside of him who felt all those truly horrible things. That's why I ignored, dismissed, and generally accommodated all but the very worst of his behavior ... . how I ended up invariably perceiving, understanding, rationalizing, excusing, and forgiving him for even that ... . and why being rejected/abandoned by him even as suddenly, completely, and viciously as I was only reinforced the kind of relationship/bond I'd formed with him.

I'm very slowly learning to accept, validate, and respect the emotional boundaries other people set to protect themselves. I can't stop myself from "reading" them, but I can and do now stop myself from reacting/responding/interacting with others on the basis of what I sense. I listen more now to what they're actually saying, and respond to that - trusting that, over time, by simply doing so - they'll eventually feel comfortable enough to share their true feelings with me.

I'm learning to not just simply ignore/dismiss the things people actually say/do - because, if nothing else, I think it's important for me to recognize/accept that saying/doing those kinds of things - being that kind of person - being able to be that kind person is just as much a reflection/part of who they really are inside as everything else - and the only part they're actually capable/comfortable sharing on the outside as well.

Talithacumi, that was a very helpful text for me. Thank you very much.

Tali... I love that post.

I hate being highly empathetic/sympathetic... When I see people who are harder...

don't get hurt easily, move on quickly ect...

I feel jealousy... and I feel weaker than them.

I hear move on or get over it... like they feel stronger as well.

I hate that frailty.

talithacumi

nice post... . very well said, and good 4 u... .

In his amazing book "The Gift of Fear" (which is basically about using and trusting one's intuition that one is in danger to protect oneself), author and security consultant Gavin de Becker starts off the book by describing how, from earliest childhood onward, he was incredibly attuned, by necessity, to his mother's every minute mood signal, because he had to protect himself and his younger sister from her. (She did things like brandish guns and shot one of her boyfriends.)

I highly recommend the book. It deals very vividly and insightfully with the effects of child abuse/probable BPD parenting; as well as self-protection. And it is a bit heartening to learn that the hyper-vigilance and heightened sense of danger we survivors feel CAN have positive aspects, as well as all the cr@p and dysfunction they cause.

(I related a lot because my own hypervigilance has saved me at least a few times from, in the worst case, what could have been a rape/murder -- if I had not gotten a very vague uneasy vibe from a guy bicycling on a bike path I was on -- he passed me and was way out of sight behind a stand of trees ahead, but I still stopped dead, did a 180 and fled back the way I came. Which would have seemed nuts, given that he hadn't done anything but look at me as he passed me and was already out of sight -- except that, sure enough, he turned too when he saw i wasn't going to ride into his ambush, chased me down, grabbed my bike handlebars, and knocked me off my bike. I believe I only survived intact because I was already fleeing the right way, and he knocked me forward in the direction I needed to run (more populated) and I was able to levitate to my feet and just keep running' rather than his taking me by surprise behind the trees up ahead.

There is a lot of discussion of that kind of thing and how it saved people who had that "gift of fear"; where people less attuned to the minute signals of danger and/or more accustomed to dismissing them ended up hurt, dead, or worse. It's an excellent book and i think a lot of us who had to "listen" for their basic safety to the signals of dangerous others, like BPD parents, will relate.)

Im pretty sure my step dad was BPD or pretty close to it.

Thank u for recommending that... . Its funny bc w every bad telstionship

My first instinct told me to run! I always ignored it!

After the relationship fails, I think: ooh thats what that was !

Talk about complete insecurity when I dont even trust my

Amazingly correct gut instincts.