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Title: How to handle those empty feelings Post by: bpdsupport on May 04, 2014, 05:02:18 AM I had told her about my personal limits and which she crossed and I left the house to stay with my my parents. On the second day I text and asked if I can talk to the kids but no answer. Called twice but no answer. The next day I text her and told her that I called her twice on the day I left to tell her again why I left and how important it is but she didn't pickup her phone. It was because she was yelling and screaming again. Directly attacking me, disrespecting my family and I, etc. She wouldn't stop screaming loud and the kids started crying. I told her that I may or may not return and it all depends on how I feel about it. I told her that I have sat some personal limits on what I will take and what I won't and my list were crossed that night. I told her that my limits are not about controlling anyone. They are mine.
I also told her there are only so many times I leave the house before I leave forever... . This back fired on me: She emailed me on the fourth day saying we are over. Took out half of our money. (Still paid the rent from my half) Changed the door lock, telling me that I am not welcome at our apt anymore, applied for child support, telling me when and if you file for divorce, we can figure out the remaining. Contact through email if you want to see the kids. She's assuming she is having the kids for 7 days a week unless I tell her otherwise. That we need to come up with set schedule for the kids and etc... I went picked up the kids on Friday and took some of my belongings as we'll. while I was packing my stuff, she tells me that it look like you are not coming back here anymore? and if so she has to move to another cheaper apt as she won't be able to afford this one. I shocked hearing that. Then ask me what should she do with the brand new SUV? Should she turn it back to the dealer, trade it in? As she won't be able to afford it. Anyhow, I told her no I am not coming back, I'll come back to get the rest of my belongings and that she can do whatever she thinks is right about everything... I see on her FB some guy flirting and asking to go for drinks with some other girl friends on a weekend that i have already planned to go out of town. She is flirting back but saying she won't do it in flirting way etc... . I don't know why I feel jealous and empty and miss her even though she has made my kids, our families' and my life hell during the past 6 years of us being married. I keep reminding myself the bad times but still find myself having these feelings for her. Even though I already feel like this FB thing is all made up but I still feel these emotions. What are some good ways to make sure I don't go back to her? I feel humiliated, disrespected, my self esteem has been affected by this relationship so badly. I need support on staying strong and get out of this relationship. What are some of your suggestions? Please help me. Should I see a therapist? Title: Re: How to handle those empty feelings Post by: livednlearned on May 04, 2014, 04:43:28 PM Yes, see a therapist. Leaving abusive relationships is incredibly hard. You need someone to help you sort through your thoughts and feelings. It's too hard to do it alone, most of us have scripts that run through our heads that sabotage us, prevent us from taking care of ourselves and doing what's right.
And it's important to have a therapist during the divorce process. A lot of the qualities that made it easy for her to walk all over you will make it easy for her to walk away with everything, including a bad custody deal for you and your kids. Therapy, peer support, and good friends who care about you -- all of these can really help. Try to take care of yourself, get enough sleep, exercise, eat well. The stress will be intense and you need to manage it as best you can by looking after yourself. I'm sorry you're going through this. Do you have a lawyer? It's also really important that you get a copy of Splitting: Divorcing a NPD/BPD Spouse by Bill Eddy. You can buy and download a digital copy from Amazon onto your computer and read it immediately. Title: Re: How to handle those empty feelings Post by: bpdsupport on May 04, 2014, 05:05:54 PM Yes, see a therapist. Leaving abusive relationships is incredibly hard. You need someone to help you sort through your thoughts and feelings. It's too hard to do it alone, most of us have scripts that run through our heads that sabotage us, prevent us from taking care of ourselves and doing what's right. And it's important to have a therapist during the divorce process. A lot of the qualities that made it easy for her to walk all over you will make it easy for her to walk away with everything, including a bad custody deal for you and your kids. Therapy, peer support, and good friends who care about you -- all of these can really help. Try to take care of yourself, get enough sleep, exercise, eat well. The stress will be intense and you need to manage it as best you can by looking after yourself. I'm sorry you're going through this. Do you have a lawyer? It's also really important that you get a copy of Splitting: Divorcing a NPD/BPD Spouse by Bill Eddy. You can buy and download a digital copy from Amazon onto your computer and read it immediately. Thank you so much for your support and replying to my post. I really need this. Six months ago, I was ready to leave so I read, Stop Walking On Eggshells and Splitting but she made it impossible by doing everything and anything to keep me around, food, sex, confessing to me that she's driving this roller coaster and that she made a solid program with a therapist and working on herself. I slept in the living room for six months. I started working out and eating healthy about four weeks ago and it somehow helps but it's still not easy. I have talked to my legal insurance about some of the questions I had and have scheduled to talk to a specific lawyer on Monday about the divorce or legal separation. I am just not sure which one is better ... . Thank you again for your support as I need it desperately. Bpd Support Title: Re: How to handle those empty feelings Post by: livednlearned on May 04, 2014, 07:21:23 PM If you do a legal separation, it's probably even more important that you have a therapist involved. If you're at risk for being recycled, then you need someone to help you create goals, a structure for your separation, and consequences. Meaning, maybe you create a plan where you re-evaluate in a year. For example: In order for you to continue with your wife, she would need to agree to a year of DBT three times a week, substance abuse treatment, or whatever her issues might be. The point being that you and a therapist would come up with something that guides your decision-making. If your wife cannot keep her end of the deal, then you proceed with divorce.
One thing to be careful of -- the more you share with your wife at this point, the more she will use it against you. Using things against you once the courts are involved is bad for you in very long-term expensive ways. She has already shown that she is willing to act swiftly to put you at a disadvantage. So if you do a legal separation, keep in mind that she may use that time to create problems for you. For example, if you see your child a few times a month, that becomes status quo to the court, and you'll be lucky to get more than that. If you move out, she could claim that you are a deadbeat dad who doesn't want to see you child. You have to be a very strong person to be able to sit on the fence in these relationships, with divorce on one side and legal separation on the other. Just to be very blunt about my own opinion on the subject, I think legal separation exposes people to greater risk, especially with high-conflict spouses, and especially when there are kids involved. What helped me was being very prepared, planning everything two steps ahead, and sticking to my goals. I had a therapist who really helped me with that, tho, and when I left it was very clear it was time to go. Title: Re: How to handle those empty feelings Post by: ForeverDad on May 04, 2014, 09:13:45 PM I have talked to my legal insurance about some of the questions I had and have scheduled to talk to a specific lawyer on Monday about the divorce or legal separation. I am just not sure which one is better ... . Relatively few people choose Legal Separation, even if it is not a high-conflict or abusive situation. It is like a half-measure, you're married but you're not. Your spouse's life as evidenced by behaviors and attitudes is not one of half-measures and therefore you probably can't do half-measures either. Especially if custody is an issue and your spouse might create debts that you could be held liable for. My lawyer said he had done many divorces but only 2 legal separations. One was for a spouse that had a terminal illness for a decade or so and both were willing to do that (married in name only, legally separated) solely for medical insurance purposes, he didn't say what the other one was but neither involved custody issues. But I got the point, custody issues were the #1 issue and legal separation made that too risky or likely to be even more complicated. I notice you're writing of separation. So, separation or divorce? That is a question you alone can decide. A large part of your decision is based to a large extent on how you weigh two matters, on the one hand, your marriage before God and on the other hand, the one recorded on paper filed in a court house. For example, if your spouse divorced you (in most areas if a spouse wants to divorce, the other can't really block it) you could decide you were still bound by the marriage bond if you felt the basis for dissolution wasn't sufficient. Legally, though, you would be divorced. In short, you could decline to remarry until such a time as you felt the marriage was religiously broken. Infidelity is almost everywhere regarded to be a valid reason, as in Jesus' words: "Whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery." (Matthew 19:9) Notice that it says "AND marries another". So multiple cycles of marriage and divorce as though one was just changing into a new outfit of clothes is discouraged - without basis. So I guess a question is, was there infidelity? Is there likely to be infidelity? If there has been infidelity in the past then it is likely to occur again. Marriage is meant to be one of the most closest bonds possible and not to be set aside lightly. In Malachi 3 the prophet quote God's warning to straying Israelites, "On this account, that Jehovah himself has borne witness between you and the wife of your youth, with whom you yourself have dealt treacherously, although she is your partner and the wife of your covenant... . For he has hated a divorcing," Jehovah the God of Israel has said; "... . and you must not deal treacherously." Treacherously how? Other accounts in reveal that some Israelite men had divorced their wives in order to marry younger women. Worse, some of these wives were from neighboring pagan lands and the children didn't even speak their language to understand their religious writings! (Malachi 2:11; Nehemiah 13:23-27) Count the cost. Weigh the factors. Jesus' words, "For example, who of you that wants to build a tower does not first sit down and calculate the expense, to see if he has enough to complete it?" (Luke 14:28) Some very valid reasons to keep your distance, whether separated or divorced, are to protect yourself from physical or other abuse, willful non-support or spiritual endangerment. I recall one elder reviewed with me some of the above points. A few months later after having seen what was happening and what my separated spouse was doing, I heard these simple words, ":)o what you have to do." Here are some recent posts I made in other threads as to why I decided divorce was necessary in my case. When did you know it was time to Divorce? About six months before our separation... . My now-ex increasingly ranted and raged. In the early years it was unfocused and more of the whimpering sort every few months or so. I used to joke to myself that I could see stars in bed at night. (Being hit.) After about five years something happened that she no longer felt safe in our apartment. We thereafter moved, but as I look back, about that time she also added raging and vile cursing to her episodes. After another five years or so we had a child. Bad idea. I had a difficult time as a husband, but she made being both a husband and a father a virtually impossible combination. She began demanding a divorce during some of her more extreme raging rants. (Or ranting rages?) "Either divorce me or I will divorce you!" The next day or two she'd be back to her usual self and I would try to forget about it - until the next time. But one fine Spring evening we were to attend the most important religious event of the year (during Passover/Easter week). I had to stop at a department store to buy a new pair of pants. When I arrived home she was angry and upset, "You're late, we're going to be late." I assured her we wouldn't be late. On the way there I consulted a map since we'd never been to the rented location before. "We're lost and we're late!" I said, "There's the street and we're ten minutes early." I was directed to parking, I parked and she wanted to rush. I said, "Just let me finish putting on my belt and tie, we have plenty of time." She retorted, "I want a divorce!" and walked away with our toddler. I wasn't that far behind but caught up with them. We weren't the first nor the last to arrive. In fact, WE were early and THE SERVICES started late! I thought to myself, on this special evening she declares she wants a DIVORCE all because of her upset of a non-event? That's when I knew I wasn't able to turn it around, I knew I couldn't avoid the coming train wreck... . During those remaining months I knew she was going to block my parenting, so I started documenting and recording to protect myself from what was sure to come. And come it did! :'( What are the laws regarding Separation vs. Divorce in your state? I believe in some states legal Separation will protect you from her debts, but not in other states. And then there's the legal obligation aspects with other entities such as the IRS, health insurance policies, trusts, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. It is so sad that a decision whether to Separate or Divorce depends upon these financial considerations requiring consultations with accountants or family law lawyers, but often it does. Also, just being separated could give friends the impression the separation may only be temporary, and she may be claiming that as well, so they may unwittingly be more inclined to help her, thinking you two will pay your debts jointly later on. I had a child to parent, so I had this additional practical reason to divorce: What To Do... . Separation Agreement vs. Divorce? Think about your question... . Should a divorce or separation be decided based on one issue, health insurance? It seems you would need to decide which is the better route for you and then see how those many details including insurance are affected. The laws will vary from state to state, but a legal separation may leave you still responsible for her debts, even new ones. Do seek a legal opinion on how either choice would affect your finances (assets and debts) and custodial issues (custody and parenting time). My lawyer had told me that he has almost never done separations. The reason (in my area) not to do a legal separation with an acting-out disordered spouse is that the first time (separation) you go through the custody process, she may misbehave before the court and evaluator and you will be seen as the better parent resulting in favorable parenting time for you. But if you later decide to take that final step and seek divorce, you may have to go through the custody evaluation all over again and the second time around she may know how to hide her behaviors and she might get more custodial responsibility and parenting time. Some aspects to ponder. I am gonna take action this week pursuing any honest legal measure within my grasp to get sole custody and possibly a legal separation too. I may be wrong but the typical process to limit parental rights is though divorce or legal separation. Anything else may just be accomplished through temporary protection orders. Generally those are only in place long enou8gh for you to obtain other (long term) remedies in For the record, legal separation is seldom used in cases such as this. There are several reasons. For one, you would still be married and depending on your state's laws may be financially liable for your spouse's continuing misbehaviors regarding debts, etc. Not a fun concept. For another, that would keep you two "connected" beyond just being parents (which cannot be avoided). Is the reason you mentioned legal separation that you don't want to trigger your wife into overreacting? Frankly, she will do what she will do - or not do. You have little (or more likely, no) control over that. The only control you have is over your own boundaries, your decisions, your principles. However you you may wish to investigate seeking legal separation as long as you can keep the option to amend the filing to become a divorce case when you decide the time is right. Is the reason a religious one? Many here do have respect for their religious beliefs concerning divorce. However, for some that may be an incomplete statement. In my case, I did not initially have religious basis to divorce and remarry (Matthew 19:9) but I did decide to divorce because I had to protect myself and my child as best I could. When I asked my lawyer about legal separation, he said he had only done two in his entire career and they did not involve custody of minor children. He advised against it because my finances were limited and if I did LS first and then later did D, I would be doubling my legal costs and worse, there was a real risk that by the time the second Custody Evaluation rolled around she would have learned which misbehaviors to hide. Yes, I know, the whole thing sucks. There is no perfect choice, no easy choice. But the good thing is that as you continue educating yourself you will find that you can make more informed and more confident decisions. Many of these concepts and possibilities will likely be described by the family law attorneys you consult. Write up a brief list of each important point you've heard here and bring it with you to consultations, ready to add notes. Let the lawyers review your checklist and listen to the comments, added points, various options and legal advice. I decided to seek a secular divorce rather than legal separation because of some of the above reasons, particularly, self-protection. I knew I could never again risk close contact with a person who was repeatedly doing what she did. Very sad but also true. Title: Re: How to handle those empty feelings Post by: bpdsupport on May 05, 2014, 07:36:29 PM Thank you so much for your support and reply. My decision would be a divorce as I can't imagine going through this again and on top of that, I already know she would rack up debts from the past experience. I am waiting to hear back from my legal insurance to talk to a lawyer.
Title: Re: How to handle those empty feelings Post by: livednlearned on May 05, 2014, 08:48:03 PM Thank you so much for your support and reply. My decision would be a divorce as I can't imagine going through this again and on top of that, I already know she would rack up debts from the past experience. I am waiting to hear back from my legal insurance to talk to a lawyer. I think that's wise. Once you're talking divorce, it's best to minimize negative engagement and cut your losses, imo. I'm 3.5 years into divorce/custody. I can't even count how many times I've been in court, and I stopped counting how much money I've paid in legal bills. There is no end in sight. Even giving N/BPDx the house turned into thousands of dollars of legal fees and multiple motions for contempt of court trying to get my name off the deed. Things he agrees to, he then obstructs. We were in court again today, which is probably contaminating my thinking, but why anyone would want to prolong the negative engagement, I don't know. Be swift and decisive, figure out how things work where you live, and move on. |