BPDFamily.com

As always... . the wisdom and insight I gain from all of you on this site really help me cope, heal and move forward.

Pre-trial was last week after a year of back and forth from her on getting the divorce done.

... . and after we all first learn what our BPD spouse is and the FOG we were most always in begins to lift a little each and every day and the denial slowly erodes... . the "regular" or repetitive BPD behaviors and actions that we were in denail about in part due to the "high functioning" nature of her disorder, continue to happen and become much easier to see and seem to grind on me asking me more as to "... . you stupid... . your perspective that she would change some day... . impossible!"

After 9 years of marriage, I reached the line in the sand... . and all of the behaviors continued but the raging had violence start on her part, I dis-engaged, began to see it was time to work on me and told her that unless she would finally consider we both must undergo comprehensive long-term individual and joint therapy, (To start up with the Marsha M. Linehan team at her DBT clinic at the Univ of Washington) our marriage had all but disentagrated and could not survive.

As a high-functioning borderline, therapists were the enemy to her and after 9 years of all the pain, and huge struggles, I begin clearly to see that therapy, i.e., DBT therapy was the only hope and when she kicked a possible trip out west to see Dr. Linehan to the curb I saw no hope.

Over the last 2-3 years of watching our marriage demolish, I think my wife sensed I had reached my limit but felt her BPD was not having any affect to our demise from her dynamic and I think her abandonment radar had switchd on since she could actively sense after her raging physical abuse outbursts that she could see I really wanted to head west to see Dr. Linehan or had resolved if we didnt, in mind that we were not going to make it.

Skip and many here have advised that even in the most troubled of relationships, it is not unusual for a "BPD" to abandon the relationship or do something so hurtfull that you can not continue... . and that your partner may emotionally discard you, become absuve and leave you... . making you feel confused and with much pain.

She said I was the poision, had no hope to change, so she moved out, filed for the divorce and now as we go to trial in June, she indicates in a number of areas that she hopes I am destroyed.

What is driving the hate from her, and her wanting me in reality to be destroyed?  She cancelled me being on her medical insurance just so she knew that a $7,000 medical bill... . yes she will pay 3,500 but felt even more relieved that I would have to pay $3,500 for the medical funds that I do not have... . and that she felt good about how this situation could help to destroy me and thwarting any chance of me moving foward and putting up a new start?

How does the splitting, rage, etc., grow even more to this point where she wants me to emplode and be totally destroyed?... . and have little chance of moving on?

Yes this divorce is painful... . for me... . more than I ever realized, the financial nuclear blast will be major for me, but what I cannot understand is why she has this need, this need she has for this scorched earth goal for me to never make it?

NewsWays

I think all BPD ex's do the same thing, its part of their mental illness. They are just wired to hate and feel an urgent need to destroy anyone who loved them and left. I know its very hard not to take it personally. Even worse is that you can not make them understand how normal and rational people would behave.

I was trying to understand women who cut themselves -- why would someone dig a knife into her wrists? I remember reading something written by BPD sufferers who cut, trying to describe why they did it. They said the pain of cutting themselves was better than not feeling anything at all.

I imagine this is the same for other BPD sufferers. They may not cut themselves, but will create chaos and pain because that is better than feeling nothing, nothing, nothing. Either that, or the difficult feelings they cannot process must be offloaded onto someone else so they can be experienced outside the self. My ex, unable to manage his fears about having a tumor on his face, told S12 he was probably going to die. All this before a biopsy had been done, after which the tumor was found to be benign. I believe he needed to deposit his anxiety and fear into S12, and that way he could experience his own pain without being consumed by it.

One night, my ex threw our dog against the wall. She's 30lbs, blind and deaf. Her mistake was being very bonded to me, and during arguments, she would get agitated and tremble, and try to be as close to me as possible. Why would N/BPDx throw our sweet dog? All I can imagine is that N/BPDx saw any emotional connection as a reminder, a threatening one, that he did not have these connections, and could not understand how to create them. In the absence of connection, he felt such a chaos of feelings that he had to unleash -- at the very least he would be connected, however pathetically, to something.

I spent the day in court yesterday. He represented himself. I was on the witness stand, answering his cross-examination and his BPD was so clear and easy to see. His mental illness, his inability to recognize how distorted his inner logic is -- it took my breath away. High functioning BPD is hard for people to understand. They seem so articulate, so intelligent, many things seem to make sense. But at the core there is no emotional wholeness, and that is puzzling to people. N/BPDx does not know this emotional wholeness exists. I don't believe he has access to any other perspective than the one he has. Not safely, anyway.

My T said that many of us create a false sense to survive dysfunctional childhoods. These "pseudo" selves help us cope under duress, and these masks are so convincing, and were so essential to our survival, that we hang on for dear life. We even pick partners that give our false selves similar challenges so we can continue the script, the one we're so good at. Until we meet our match and that script no longer works. When you realize how hard it is to let go of that script, how frightening and terrifying it is to surrender, the fear that BPD sufferers feel is not so hard to understand. That's why people say lean into the pain. Lean all the way in -- you'll feel like you're nothing, no one loves you, you're a loser, you're a phony, why bother, blah blah blah. And then you pop through the other side, whole.

The key with your ex is to detach. You cannot change her anymore than she can change you. Unfortunately, the more you detach, the more likely she will wind up and try to inflict pain, anything to generate feelings, and better for her if she can get you to express the feelings she isn't able to process.

Can you really make sense, common sense, out of someone whose perceptions and cognition is mentally ill?  Professionals can describe it, detail it, categorize it, but it still won't make sense.  That's what this sort of mental illness is.  Accept it.

Many here have noted that despite their fear of abandonment, their very actions seem focused on forcing abandonment.  Or they abandon, despise and retaliate before they can be abandoned, even if they weren't going to be abandoned.


If you had insurance when the divorce was filed, then she can't remove you from it until the divorce is Final.  That is Law.  If she canceled you before she filed, well, I don't know how that is handled.  However, once the divorce is Final then yes you must file promptly for COBRA coverage for up to 18 months as I recall or get your own insurance elsewhere.

ForeverD... .

You quote really says it all... . You can't reason with the voice of unreason!

... . so very accurate and true!

LivednLearned... .

I'm a pet lover... . that behavior makes me sick... . I'm leaning into all the pain... . I have

No choice... . today I must Count my blessings that we had no kids!

NewWays

I think a lot of us try to understand this stuff, thinking it will make sense at some point. For some, understanding it makes detachment easier. For others, that approach keeps them stuck ruminating. Whatever works best for you, take that path. I tried to understand it, read too much, and got lost in the weeds. It wasn't until I just accepted it for what it was that true detachment became possible.

I do think that trying to understand it helped me figure out what it means to raise an emotionally healthy child. I'll let you know in 20 years if I managed to pull that feat off.  :)  I figure by the time S12 is 32, I'll have some sense whether I managed to guide him through the obstacle course ok.

LivednLearned... .

I'm trying to understand so I can recalibrate and detach... . during our

Marriage being blind and in denial I would always try to repair after

one of her meltdowns... . I hades the polarized extreme of the result of

her rage... . and repair was a honest goal.  Do you feel one needs to

understand the what and why so you can detach with learning what

It takes to really heal?

NewWays

For me, yes. I tend to over think. It would be great if I could process things emotionally and go from there, but like a lot of people here (at least it seems this way), I grew up muting my emotions and have had to put on training wheels and learn how emotions work for me.

I think it's great you're asking questions, trying to make sense. It's one of those things where the seeking takes you places, and then you finally realize you were there all along. Wizard of Oz metaphor  :)

I know what you mean.  I have to be mindful and make sure that I am always aware if I am getting close to the weeds, but sometimes it is harder than others.

I am the first to be upfront that I did not know anything about personality disorders let alone BPD.  I don't know about you but as I learn and continued to learn about this disorder, situations or incidents that I had let go that were a part of our marriage, all of a sudden will jump back into my mind and replay, after I learn or my therapist points out a clarifying point to me that sheds some addeitinal light on BPD.

These types of experiences, for me, are sometimes hard to avoid since they do help to get rid of even more of a big protion of the FOG and help me to be mindful and radically accept another part of my painful marriage and also helps me with acceptance without trying to change what happened or make a value judgement or blame anything or anyhone... . versus it just is what it is.

I am not sure if you, or others here have experienced this... . but it is somewhat common for me.  Just after the 1st of the year my therapist was talking about some of the general trends of of early childhood that can impact a child and add to the possibility of BPD that I can not

For my wife... . the neglect, abandonment and the FOO alcholic Father who abused IV drugs, gambled his weekly paycheck away and sadly probably took my wife to one of his "gambling, card game, drug taking" sessions when she was 5 years old, was in reality probably sexually abused, that helps me know understand some of the serious pain she went through.

So when my therapist pointed out that evidence suggests that up to 76% of women meeting criteria for BPD are indeed victims of sexual abuse during childhood, together with the other reported evidence of neglect and/or abondement, made me so very sad for my wife since during the only two sessions she ever agreed to attend for joint therapy, she briefly mentioned how scared she was when her Father took her along with him to one of his gambling sessions... . and then she immediately stopped talking in our session and I was asked to leave the toom with my wife and therapist.  It was a pretty stark and very sad realization on my part of all the pain this disorder causes.  This is not giving her an excuse for anything, just is facing the facts as to how the FOO issues can have a major impact on launching this horrible disorder.

Does what I outline above, make any sense to you regarding trying to understand, detach and heal?

Yet I clearly understand your point to be careful about getting stuck in the weeds, but its a tough one!

NewWays

I think so, but let me check.

If someone is nasty for no reason, this angers us. Detachment is easy.

If someone is nasty because she was the victim of a terrible crime, this evokes compassion. Detachment is fraught with guilt.

So we become very focused on the cause of the disorder because one is soaked in guilt, and the other is not.

Is that what you mean?

I know people who had bad things happen to them in childhood.  All are survivors, they're still walking today.  But many, though with painful memories, are not causing pain to others.  However it happened, my ex is one who has morphed into and remained in a disordered state of mind.  When I first met and married her she was troubled and sensitized, but not disordered.  Over the years she became increasingly triggered and traumatized by her childhood fears, and having a child triggered her to relive her childhood fears through our child.  Along the way she had many who wanted to help but she wasn't listening.  Even so, I have chosen not to be bitter about it, it is what it is.

To guilt yourself overmuch because a person, as an adult, didn't choose to overcome their past experiences is giving away too much power in your life.

Make sure the abuse is even real. Im a mother of a BPD daughter she was not abused, she has told lots of people she was. She came from a great middle class working family, a nice home 4br and a pool. She had an organic problem and when I had my youngest daughter she felt abandoned by that. Even though I was Vp of the pta, couached her cheerleading you name it I couldnt give her enough attention.

the other 2 actually were robbed of my attention more because of her demands.

Now Ive heard she told one Boyfriend her brother raped her and I let him. (WAY FALSE)

Daddy beat her (false)

I beat her (false)

I saw her slapped one time in her life by My ex and that was because he caust her at 13 coming out of the woods at night with a boy, she was supposed to be skating.

He was furious, it happend.

But she doesnt even tell that story lol

UGGGGG

Good point.  For many of us we really have no way to know what really happened - if it even happened.

And if ex was talking about past relationships such as former BFs, GFs or ex-spouses, then they're all typically blame-shifted as horrendous and abusive.  It's that all-good or all-bad perception, either someone is idolized or vilified.  Black or white, no gray in between.

"what I cannot understand is why she has this need, this need she has for this scorched earth goal for me to never make it?"

Her emotional development stopped at the age of trauma.

She has an intense fear of being abandoned.

Divorce is not just perceived abandonment, it's real.

Her defense mechanism is to project her pain on the closest target.

You are no longer her shining white night, thus you are an evil threat and must be destroyed.

It's the five to ten year old mentality.

Understanding the why doesn't change the fact that you have someone trying to cause you harm.

This is so true! My dBPD sister will tell anyone and everyone that she was abused. First, she claimed it was out mother who was abusive. Than, after our mom died, she claimed it was her father who abused her. That did not happen. My dad spanked us a few times, and our mom was against spanking, opting for time outs and loss of priveledges. My best guess is that my being born triggered her. And when our parents divorced, that made things worse. People are very quick to believe tales of abuse because the BPD can make very emotional stories up. But unless you know for sure, don't believe it. I have friends who dBPD son also tells people he was abused and that is not true.

Also, manicmuses's saying how her other kids suffered because they didn't get as much attention is spot on. My friend's daughter was cutting herself because all the attention was on her brother's antics. Myself, I have always felt invisible. Like I didn't matter. I am working on that.

New Ways,

I think this is very common for many of us:


Do you find yourself also connecting the dots to your FOO? Meaning, you experience these situations or incidents in your marriage, and recognize that the way you responded is related to what you learned in your family of origin?

I found a newer article written by a Dr, it was called the BIG LIE.

He said they do not have ANY more abuse in their lives then the general population, and that when he diagnoses the BPDs they have actually built their entire exsistance on the big lie!

He says its part of the disease.

So i know its hard to think youve been dupped, but I was an abused child, you always think deep inside its your fault, therefore you are ashamed to tell people about it.

Most of my good friends dont even know about my early childhood, I didnt build my life around it, I got over it, except some PTSD and I can deal with that most of the time.

(still afrid of the dark)

They figure the more people they tell the more true it is, and its true.

People believe anything they tell them, especially people who dont know the family at all.

Before you know it, you go to a party for the kids and everyone is staring at you like your a monster.

You dont know why... . lol

She is 27 just diagnosed last year so its just spot on what she has.

She talked a DYFS worker into driving her to get a restraining order against me 3 weeks ago, ive had no communication at all...

WHen we went to cort she said I hit her when she was young, (a lie) she got thrown out,

she told dyfs i threatened to slit her throat because I filed for custody of her kids because shes abusing them in her rages. UGGG

It is their intense jealousy that makes them want you to suffer.  My exBPDh hated it when he thought that anyone else had it better than him. (so naturally he wanted them to suffer) It is how a young brat would act and is probably a narcissistic as well as a borderline issue.

I relate to this. Just in counseling, I asked how could someone who should be my best friend in life want to destroy me. It's the power and control they must have.    But why ,  idk.   Xtbh , besides the usual allegations of affairs, was / is competitive with me by myself or with myself and children together.  A simple example is I buy a gift for kids, he buys one of same but better.  He tells kids that his gift is better. If he could not updo something he instead degraded it. If I betterd myself in anything , he couldn't stand it. If I was happy he couldn't stand it. Etc.

WOW that was so true! Whenever I was happy, he would seethe and do anything to try to make me unhappy. How bizarre is that!  Childish jealousy that they never ever outgrow... .

All…

As always, thank you for listening and your input.  We all try and help us all heal when we visit this great site.

I am watching the sunset with some great spring like weather reflecting on a recent “assignment” from my therapist about learning to recalibrate my sense of boundaries that are just a part of me…and not try to (even though it tends to happen) filter all healing and growth through a BPD perspective…because the steps taken forward for growth out of ending a relationship with a partner that is disordered with such traits, will help one in all of their relationships in their life.

I will provide more detail later, but therapist made me read and analyze the paragraph below and then told me my baseline or my current definition on this topic was most likely in need to being updated and recalibrated.

The Topic:

     What is Emotional Abuse?

     What does it do to a relationship?

As I said above, I will compile more of the info and share later, but…did you ever have the understanding of what emotional abuse was in your marriage/relationship from your BPD partner and the real impact it has on the eventual sure disintegration of the marriage or relationship?

I Said…

It is varied…and some days she was very cranky.  The blaming, berating, and criticizing were really hard to deal with.  But when it escalated into the silent treatment or threat of leaving the marriage or divorce that really had a negative effect on me.  But it was not always all the time!

Therapist Said…

It’s almost like thinking, yeah, most of the time, I know I only smoke 5-6 cigarettes a day so that cannot be that bad for me since I’m not smoking anything super bad like a pack or two EVERY SINGLE DAY!

Therapist then handed me to read a sheet of paper that looked like it was from a College or Medical School text book that read…

“Everyone must understand just what emotional abuse is!  Because emotional abuse poisons a relationship and infuses it with hostility, contempt and hatred.  No matter how much a couple once loved each other, once emotional abuse becomes a consistent aspect of the relationship, that love is overshadowed by fear, anger, guilt and shame.  Whether it is one or both partners who are being emotionally abusive, the relationship becomes increasingly more toxic as time goes by.  In this polluted environment, it is difficult for love not only to grow but to even survive”

The longer this behavior continues; the marriage will most likely implode and fail.

I looked up after reading and told the therapist it was like they had been watcing my marriage from day #1!

Did any of you know or understand this way back when in your marriage or relationship?

NewWays

What will our answers tell you? Genuinely curious. That we didn't know our relationships were emotionally abusive?

I didn't leave until I saw clearly that my ex's verbal, emotional, and psychological abuse was devastating my son. Somehow, I could tell it was emotional abuse when it was inflicted on someone else, on a child. When it was directed toward me, other instincts kicked in. I knew how to survive this stuff, so I used those skills.

When I look back at the dating stage, I see how clear the red flags were. But when you grew up in a field of red flags, one or two of them doesn't stand out.

The first time a therapist referred to my ex as abusive, I thought she was over reacting, that maybe she didn't understand the whole picture. But she did.

When abuse is mixed with love in your FOO, it messes up your definition of love. The key is to reconcile the FOO stuff, and that's painful. It means acknowledging that you weren't properly loved, and learn to do that for yourself. That's when emotional abuse becomes pretty clear. What it is, why it isn't an environment in which genuine love can grow.

Lived n Learned... . and all:

Here is my guess the answers back may show based upon what my T discussed... .

1.  Those that that all verbal abuse was normal because their framing of their family origin was as below and became their "perspective" on such treatment in the family setting... .

A.  Family = Love

B.  Love = Chaos / Verbal Abuse

C.  Family = Chaos / Verbal Abuse

D.  Verbal abusive behavior is normal from my loving family

Thus to your point... . the FOO set the baseline and defined that sense of self or boundary for this person


2.  Those that do sense that this type of treatment is not right, that in some way know that is is wrong, but for other than FOO reasons stay, endure, use self-denial to provide the tenacity and strength to turn the other cheek.

All... . Any thoughts?

NewWays

As I look back, if I had to describe each of us kids in the family with a phrase or a few words, I'd say about me that I tried to be the reasonable peace maker.  Not that we had that many problems as I recall, but that was my personality.  So when I got married and encountered an increasingly difficult situation, I of course tried to be a peacemaker, over time an increasingly difficult task.  Probably too why I stayed so long before (vainly) seeking real help.

By far the majority of our members' stories detail how they stayed far longer than typical in society, and rather than resolving things staying only dug them in deeper as appeasers and/or targets and allowed things to get more and more complicated to unwind.

|iiii

I kind of think about the frog in the boiling pot…you put him in and gradually turn on the heat, and he doesn't notice and dies.  You throw him in a boiling pot of water, he jumps out.  These people are experts of gradually turning up the heat, being the person you want them to be just often enough to keep you tethered to them wanting more and more of that person…just enough that you stay and weather out the emotional abuse waiting for the other person to come out.

There is also the type of relationship where they crank up the boiling water, and then turn it down low. Right from the beginning.

Mine had a lot of that in the beginning, and I always felt relief when the temperature lowered. It kind of jacked up my senses, and made the tolerable temperatures seem downright pleasant. I thought he was just "passionate." 

All... .

From F.D. quote below... .

Based upon what we all learn about this disorder... . and experience... . is it not always impossible... . ok, 99.9% of the time that the partner with the disordered traits of BPD is NEVER the one to be peace maker or be the one in the relationship try to take the initiative to repair the damage as time goes on?


Did all of you ever sense that your spouse wanted to try and make it better?

NewWays

My spouse admitted that he was an intensely emotional person but he often said, and I quote "I am what I am!"  I don't think he wanted to make it better, however he did make up excuses for his bad behaviors. I think that was as close to apologies he was capable of.  

So he's trying to say he is what he is and he's not going to change?  Is he quoting an old Bible version as the movie Ten Commandments did?  That was an old translation of the Hebrew.  It translates better as "I will become what I choose to become" referring to God's ability to choose to be protector, savior, confidant, comforter, judge, executioner or whatever the situation required.  What more proactive name for God could there be?

Anytime our relationship got better, it was usually a manipulation on both of our parts. Me pretending that I had forgiven and forgotten, or that nothing serious had even happened. He in turn would extract an apology or admission of guilt from me, and I would feel uneasy because each interaction became more and more distorted from truth and facts and reality. The more distorted the reality, the weaker my apologies would sound, and the more injured he would become, the more rage he would feel, and around we would go.

If there was any part of him that wanted to try and make it better, he was far too sick, fortified, and frightened to admit it to himself or me.

Well, first off, $3500 (or $7000) is NOT going to destroy you. It's going to take a lot more than that. And if that's the extent of the financial damage she causes you, then count your blessings.  :)

Second, do BPDs really INTEND to destroy people? Good question. And it's not asked to let them off the hook - when they do this they deserve every bit of blame they get. But their emotions are so chaotic, and their actions so enslaved to these emotions that I wonder if they actually "know" what they're doing. I suspect my BPDx just does whatever comes to her head first. They create chaos and destruction because that's their reality. They LIVE in chaos and destruction, and it's almost as if all this chaos and destruction whirling around them just ends up thrown onto people nearest to them. It's like trying to ask a tornado why it destroys everything in its path. It just does. Whether they like it, dislike it or can help it isn't really the point - they just do it.

I think the key to protecting yourself is to just understand that, to stop trying to make sense of it, and just let it happen... . and be as far away as you can. Detach. And understand the disorder you're dealing with. If we can do that, then we can design our lives to be as far removed from theirs as possible. I think that's the key.

I don't think these people are like sociopaths, who know they're hurting people and do it anyway... . and may even like it. I think that takes a level of emotional control that BPDs don't possess.

Interesting analogy. Two yrs after my divorce I hear my BPDex still brags to everyone about how he ripped me off in the divorce, and is still on a smear campaign to boot!  All this with No Contact.

Since he was always a very competitive person it was always about winning. Its not only twisted thinking, but it would take a lot of premeditated planning to do some of the things he did.

Plus he enjoyed hurting others, as he did it all the time, and he planned most of his emotional hits even on his friends and family. I admit some were due to temper tantrums, but at any rate it made him a great candidate for a sociopath.  No two BPD people are the exact same though. That was just my experience.

WOW... . I thought I was the only one lol... . I just posted a similar post this morning.  I couldn't understand WHY my wife, who professed her love for me a day before she raged and bit me, would now be doing everything she can to destroy me.  I am the father of our daughter and my wife's father died when she was 7, of an OD... .  After a lot of thinking, I believe I was THE male, that was supposed to "replace" her father and "make things right" in her life, since she never had that and wanted a father for her daughter.  However, I think the illness took over and as soon as I triggered her, she unleashed years of pain and anger, that she had for her father abandoning her, on ME.  She is now recreating HER child hood, in a sense, as much as she didn't want to.  The way I see it, she was never able to confront her father about the pain and anger, because he's dead and she's held it in for years and taken it out on every guy she dated, but I'm the one she married and had a baby with, the closest male in her life and when she 'felt invalidated', she snapped and raged.  It's not the first time she's done this, but this time she left for good and filed divorce.  Now, she's filed a TRO, which got dropped, but is now making things up and trying to reinstate it.  I have to talk to my lawyer on Tuesday, to see about filing a defamation suit (as much as I don't want to, as I know it's her illness making her do these things), but what other choice do I have?  She's out to destroy my reputation, life, finances, etc.  She has become an evil witch and is NOT the woman I dated or married.  I was thinking today, that 2 days before she raged, we were at the gym together, on the treadmills next to each other and she looked over, grabbed my hand and blew a kiss, then said, "I really love you and am so glad I met you.  I really am blessed and grateful to have you in my life.  Thank you for being patient with me and my issues".  2 days later, she attacked me and made false accusations, that I restrained her and abandoned our crying daughter, as she ran out of the house in her rage!  It is so damned confusiing.  On one level I love her more than anything, but on the other, this evil woman wants me dead... . It's scary... .

Our relationship lasted 2 years.  They were THE BEST two years of ANY relationship I've ever had... . absolutely amazing... . she was my soulmate... . but they were also the WORST 2 years of hell, when she raged... . I wish she would snap back and turn me white again... .

I think when they know they have gone too far, they just can't allow themselves to snap back anymore.  The older mine got, the less he was able to snap back to being good again, then it was constant bad behavior.

From what I've seen, this. I was sitting there with my fiance while he was having a conversation with his BPD ex on speakerphone. The conversation started off being about buying school supplies for the kids but then the BPD started taking this nostalgic trip down memory lane talking about how she could remember the good times even if he couldn't.  He brought up how he had stood by her after she did something horrible to him and they even went on a family vacation afterwards to get their marriage back on track afterwards. Then he caught her cheating two weeks later. He asked her how she could do that and then immediately demand a divorce and <paint him black>. The BPD ex, in this calm moment, told him she did it all because she knew the horrible thing she'd done was unforgivable And that the marriage could never really recover.

It took seven years from the horrible act, six years from the divorce, almost two years of not letting him speak to or see their young children while she stalled on getting a parenting plan in front of the court, then three years of only allowing bare minimum contact (only one phone call a week) with the kids, and essentially doing everything she could to hurt him as badly as possible for them to get to that conversation.

If she can't forgive herself, can't successfully convince herself you deserved it, and can't deny it ever happened then she can't snap back. Since BPD is a disorder inflicting people with very poor coping skills it's probably only a matter of time before this happens in any relationship where the BPD person gets no treatment.

A lot of that may be braggadocio with his friends. "Yeah, she thought she'd take me, but I took her!"

Or maybe he's got some sociopathic tendencies.

The destructive ways just seem to continue.

I ask all of you to send out your positive thoughts and wishes.

This week is last pre-trial chance for dBPDw to agree to the MSA that has been revised, changed and re-done to keep it moving forward so we end this marriage and stop bleeding the legal fees since she filed over almost a year and six months ago.

You would think that she would see that benefit.  ForeverDad, Lived n Learned and many have outlined that BPD mates are known to many times sign on the courthouse steps.

The crazy things that she feels are her right are hard to understand... . including the $3,500 charge on my credit card that was for surgery for her cat... . everyone thinks is is a marital debt she says she now believes is wrong... . and her world of law is that my credit card amounts are mine... . no matter what!

I know all of you out there are saying... . WHAT?  That is clearly marital debt 50/50... . but please help me understand what causes this action... . when we are a week away from what looks like a MSA... . and now she threatens to go to trial that will cost each of us even more?

I thought it was almost over... . but I was wrong and need to expect the same crazy behavior from the past.

All of you please say a prayer for me that may help this move forward and not go to trial.

The anomalous action and behavior is getting even more off the wall.

Thoughts and wisdom welcome.


New Ways

Sometimes I wonder what's worse: feeling like I'm the only one who has experienced this, or knowing there are others going through the same thing.

Emotional dysregulation doesn't make sense.

Let's hope she settles at the final hour. It might be tempting for you to settle... . have you thought through what your bottom line is, or under what conditions you will or won't settle? Many BPD sufferers don't comply with the terms of their settlement, so sometimes people like us give in to terms just to make everything go away, only to discover the agreement has to be enforced in court. I gave my ex the house, and then had to file two motions for contempt to get him to refinance. If I hung onto the house, at least I would have had some equity to help pay for the fiasco. I thought giving him the house would pacify him.

My ex and I settled 98% in mediation. Since then, I've had to hire a real estate attorney twice, a family attorney, and an appellate attorney. A person who suffers from emotional dysregulation follows an entirely different playbook.

Lived N Learned... .

If I recall... . your ex is an attorney?  Getting to 98% via mediation is really good from what I read.  The average track record for that process when one spouse has BPD traits and behaviors is not very good, and my wife said she would never consider mediation as an option.

As we move forward and the divorce is final, I have realized it will not be over when I think it is over as you have pointed out.  I know that the post divorce stuff with the QUADROS, etc., stand a good chance that she will not immediately comply with those since she truly believes that she should be able to leave this marriage with everything and that I get nothing no matter what is finally affirmed by the court.

As I have said before, I do not know how you and others keep traveling down your path with children from the marriage and how most often the BPD spouse continues their disordered ways with the children after the divorce with damaging results.

I do not know how you do it!

NewWays

Yes, my ex is an attorney. Also, he has very strong narcissistic traits. I think he was in performance mode during mediation, wanting his attorney to see what a reasonable, level-headed guy he was. All of the obstructing and stalling happened after we settled.

Make sure the language in your documents is watertight. As much as possible, make sure everything has a consequence that penalizes the person who fails to comply. It will have to be worded as "both parties" but you know that you'll comply and she won't. It won't necessarily keep you out of court (at least that's been my experience), but it will be more likely that the judge will say, "Ms. New Ways, it says if you don't comply, you have to pay his legal fees. So that's what I'm going to rule."

Otherwise, it's up to the judge's discretion, and sometimes judges just give people more chances.

Drives everyone here nuts.

Yep... . it does.

My uBPDx likes to play games with the annual disclosures she is supposed to be sending me no later than May 1. She didn't do so last year, and I ended up documenting about four months' worth of emails between me and her, with her promising me she'd get me the returns immediately (and didn't). In the meantime, she'd spent literally tens of thousands of dollars sending our two kids to a summer camp and a three-week European trip, all on the $1200 a month she gets from me (not even remotely realistic - she was obviously hiding income). I waited for about four months to take her back to court over this, just to show them what a reasonable guy I am. So in December, we end up in court, and by that time she had given me tax returns that were obviously bogus (no income besides what I paid her in alimony, which wasn't possible given her spending habits), and even had our daughter's social security number completely wrong, and we're not talking about a typo - the whole thing was completely off.

Did the judge care? Nope. She gave me her return, and that was all he needed to know. He didn't care that it was obviously bogus. I asked him to require her to produce a transcript to prove she had actually filed it, and he denied the request. He just didn't care.

He admonished her to not do this again... . but she did the same thing this year. The obvious takeaway for her was: I can do whatever I want and the court's buying my BS.

Oh well. At least I only have to pay her another three years.

Boss... .

Only three more years... . I am sorry for that.

We all learn here that many with this disorder during the divorce and after do not do what they say.  And looking back durng the marriage this behavior was present yet I made the mistake of not looking in the mirror which contributed to my denial and really facing the facts!

I am looking forward to the upcoming days where I will not have to experience the deception she engages in so I can get the residue of this behavior out of my soul and move on with my life.

NewWays

So, I had my 2nd mediation today, with my uBPD wife.  She was filled with evil and hate.  I sat across from her, wanting nothing more than to hug or kiss her and tell her I wouldn't abandon her and love her unconditionally.  But, there is NO getting through to her.  She has painted me black and I fear for our 1 y/o daughter.  She cries when I give her back to her mother, after her 2 day stay with me and literally tries climbing over her mother's shoulder to get back to me, eyes filled with tears.  It is so painful to have to drive away and leave her crying and I feel I am abandoning our daughter, but it's at my wife's doing.  She is recreating HER OWN childhood and in my belief, she has painted me to be HER OWN Father, who abandoned her and verbally abused her.  It is sad, because my mother-in-law and my wife's step-father KNOW SHE HAS THESE ISSUES and have told ME about them in the past.  They go back many years before me, a path of destroyed romantic relationships... . some of her ex boyfriends have reached out to me about her rages, vindictiveness, etc.  She is contradictory in what she tells people (claims to live a life of Zen Living, when she is totally opposite!)  At mediation, I couldn't take her lies, accusations and inuendos any more and cut the session short.  Is this really the woman who adored me and treated me like gold a few months ago?  On Jan 26 she was professing her love for me and planning our summer family vacation, excitedly.  Two days later, she raged, bit me and that was it... . she abandoned OUR relationship and I was painted black.  She made a comment today, that sounded like she had met someone already and it hurt.  I know she's only going to repeat this again, but it hurts like hell... .

I've often posted about my own situation.  My ex had always told me that her abusive stepfather moved in when she was 3 years old.  The boys were sent to their father and the girls lived in private terror.  We had been married for over 10 years when I thought having a child might may her happier, to see a child discovering life.  Not to be.  Though children are wonderful blessings, having children makes a dysfunctional relationship more complicated since it may may make higher conflict and a marital implosion more likely.  She became paranoid, fitting every trait of PPD, suspecting everyone around her as "probably" abusers.  Once everyone else was driven away, I was the only one left and became her next focus.  That's when I knew it was out of control and I had to protect myself, I worried I'd be wearing an orange jump suit for a decade or so if she were to be believed.  And yes he was 3 years old when we had to separate.

For the first few years, until my son was 6 or 7, he would come running to me at exchanges but he'd be crying and fighting to stay with me upon return.  I concluded he was too young to hide his feelings, he'd always been a daddy's boy.  Clearly he knew where he felt best, even if he didn't know to verbalize it better.  Eventually he came to accept the exchanges.  You know, that was a bit of a sad time for me, like he got worn down and used to the way things were.

My BPDex seemed often paranoid schizophrenic. I often wonder if it is a part of BPD, or maybe two disorders under the same hair. I hope your ex is focusing on another adult, and not on your son with her problems. Its hard on a child to deal with a parent who is off balance mentally.