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I asked, and received, a detailed report of things that have been going on at the RTC and attach a copy hereto that her CM emailed me.  Let me know your thoughts.

5.07.14 : TA refused to remain in her room and on her rack after being given several directives. TA opened her room window and stuck her head out of the window. Staff gave TA several directives to close the window. She then proceeded to the front door and tried to exit. She went back to her room and around 10:45 pm he exited the living unit then proceeded towards the administration building .  She was redirected back to her living unit. She finally returned to her living unit around 11:11 pm.

5.08.14: TA was allowed to try and be a positive peer to one of her peers. After about 10 minutes passed TA was informed the time was up and they needed to return to their designated areas. TA began to curse at the staff and when the line staff intervened, she yelled “SMD” to a male staff.

5.09.10 – TA wanted to print something out on the printer. Ms Brown informed the class there would be no printing. Ms Brown walked toward the printer because she heard something printing. TA also walked to the printer. Ms Brown reached around TA to take the documents from the printer. TA began yelling and cursing at Ms Brown. TA was instructed to leave the class. She was suspended from school on Monday 5.12.14.

5.09.14:  Around 8:45pm TA was on her rack. The supervisor completed a walk through to make sure the all youth were on their racks. When the supervisor left the house, TA got out of bed and ran outside

5.10.14: Around 8pm the perimeter was closed and TA was instructed to go inside. She refused and remained outside until around 11p. She used excessive profanity towards staff.

5.10.14: Around 11:15pm TA began to ask the staff repeatedly for the time. TA overheard a code blue being called from the pathfinder camp. At that time TA got out of her bed and went to the window. She was given a directive to go back to her rack. She refused. Staff proceeded into the room and stepped in between TA and the window. TA then ran into another youths room. TA then pushed pass the staff and ran out of the door. She was then placed in a physical intervention. While in the physical intervention TA stated to the informed the staff if she did not let her out of the physical intervention she was going to spit on her. Another staff came and took over the physical intervention.


5.11.14: TA and her peer ran out of her living unit along with a female peer to meet up with three male peers. They ran out into the woods where they remained until around 5am on Monday morning. She was allowed to take a shower she did not attend school because she was suspended. She was not allowed to sit around the living unit and watch television so she was “out of area” all day and causing disruption. Being completely disrespectful. She asked to be speak me on several occasions. I refused because I cannot/will not give in to her negative behaviors. She was non compliant all day.

5.13.14: TA did not attend school. She made several trips to the admin building trying to meet with different people. Because she did not follow protocol, no one would meet with her. She remained out of area and non compliant for the remainder of the day. Around 10pm she and three of her female peers ran out in to the woods with three male youth. She was brought back to the camp around 4am this morning by the state police. She was allowed to take a shower. She has been non compliant all day. She has been placed in several interventions today for creating unsafe situations.

I tried to make this as brief as possible while trying to paint a clear picture of her behaviors.

At this time, visits for TA will be suspended until further notice due to her behaviors.



A Specialized MDT will be held for TA on the 27th @ 12:30. If TA continues with these behaviors, she will continue to make it hard for the staff to keep her safe.

I'm just so sick and tired of being sick and tired! This crap is literally draining my life from my body. Every day it's something. Either a note from DS's teacher about his behavior at school or something about DD.  I need a fricken' break.

Ray

I am sorry you are struggling right now. When I read the report I can see your dd is right where she needs to be... . she is very defiant and it is going to take some time for her to come around. How are you feeling about the RTC now? I know you have had some reservations. since your dd is probably on restrictions use this time to do something for yourself. Try to find some peace... . go out to a movie or dinner... . make some plans and take care of yourself.

I still have mixed feelings about the place and questions I need answers to. For some the behaviours they have listed, I feel there has to be a reason DD is lashing out like she is (triggers). So not being able to talk to her and get her side is giving me much anxiety. I want to know why she was in multiple physical restrains. No details as to why that occurred. I want to know how the boys and girls were able to arrange this runoffs when apparently they have no interaction. I want to know why a staff member checked in on that one day when I was told a staff member was in the living quarters at all times. I want to know how DD was able to run off not once, but twice. I want to know what steps are being taken to prevent this from happening again, etc.

I find it hard to enjoy this time she is away. I have not enjoyed one moment of it. And that is my own fault. I'm finding each and every day getting more difficult to cope with all of this. I cannot wait for my physical next month because I need to be put on something before I'm committed. Really. There is no doubt in my mind I am clincally depressed.

I did just email a NAMI support group in my area (I know, I know I said I would eons before), trying to get some informantion about meetings. It's time.

Hi Ray, Your daughter exhibits very dangerous behaviors even in a structured setting. Try to stop asking yourself questions about what triggered her. Whatever triggered her is not the issue, nor should it be an excuse for her behavior. The issue is that your d. needs to learn coping skills and ways to disengage, and not act out when there is a trigger.

Please try to find some peace for yourself while she is gone. You desperately need rest. Let the RTC deal with her and let d. feel all the natural consequences of her decisions and behaviors.

I'm trying. I really am. As much as I obsessed over this crap, I oftentimes wonder if I too have some kind of disorder!

Anyway it sounds to me like they might consider kicking her out. Then what?

I can't see anything to suggest a disorder! You are just a responsible parent who has tried their best for their DD but worries about making the right choices.

Your DD is displaying some very challenging behavior. Even if this RTC is not ideal it is far far better than not being in  residential treatment.

I don't know the exact set-up where you live but I think it unlikely anywhere that they would throw her out without liasing with her case manager.

I agree with the others that you have done your best and need to hand over the responsibility.

Making yourself ill with worry over her is not going to help her and will harm you.

You also have your little boy to think about.

Don't be hard on yourself raytamtay I have been following your thread and you are doing everything you possibly can. I remember you saying that you had faith in the CM. If you are really unhappy with the RTC rely on her for support

They cannot kick her out without a plan in place. Going home should not be an option. If they can't keep her safe, neither can you. If they cannot treat her, insist on a discharge plan to someplace else. If treatment goals were not reached, then she cannot come home. Start researching ASAP for another RTC, even if it is out of state. It is vital to find the right setting. I'm sorry to say, it is a lot of work to find the setting, but this piece is so crucial.

I doubt you have a disorder Ray, but we do need to look at ourselves to see how we are not helping our sick kids. Once I figured out that change had to begin with me, that is when we started to see things improve. I had to learn how to parent her differently, react differently, love differently. My d. spent a total of 22 consecutive months out of our home, I used that time to get me "well" and learn everything I could about DBT and all the skills talked about on this site. I read a ton of books. After all the years of trying to "fix her" and thinking it was all about her changing and not me, I finally found out that I was really wrong. I too had to change.

My d. sounds a lot like yours, except she is now 21, and living on her own and successfully so for her abilities. There are still problems and concerns, sometimes major headaches and stress. She is considered to be in the spectrum of low-functioning BPD but from our viewpoint, she is doing well, not what we dreamed for her but well considering the major hurdles of BPD.

I'm starting to ramble, but I wanted to share a bit of our story to give you hope.

Thanks Lever. With respect to the CM, to add insult to injury and what is contributing to my angst, she quit! She had given us an inclination that she MAY be, but assured me she'd let me know beforehand if she was. Found out yesterday (not from her) that she had after not hearing from her for weeks. Was told a new CM will be assigned to us. She was fantastic! She really went the extra mile. Now to start all over again is daughting to say the least! Even the RTC was impressed with how hands on she was. Said none of the other youth's CM were as involved!  :'(  She was a fabulous advocate for us.

Thanks Mindful. I appreciate you giving me a little more detail on your situation and experience. I do know I need to work on me too. I really want to start therapy. I need someone objectve to talk to and cry to without feeling judged. Much like this place, only in person.

Sorry to hear about the CM that you liked. I hope you get a good replacement soon.

I too would be quietly researching alternatives in case this doesn't work out.

One major factor for me would be waiting to see how things work with the new therapist.

I'm in the UK so systems are different but I thought it highly unlikely anywhere that they could ask her to leave without a proper plan.

Whatever the triggers she needs to learn not to react like this.

Stay strong ramtamtay- part of learning to modify behavior is to face consequences

I got a chance to talk to DD last Friday and was extremely deregulated.  She was emotional, rambling, and in total choes.  They had a male staff member near her during the call because how often she’s been running now (twice). When she would tell me what’s been going on, he would chime in thereby triggering DD and making her get very irate.  I asked to speak to her therapist who was in the room and asked her to please tell him to stop. She said he wasn’t talking to DD, that he was talking to her. I said regardless. Please go to another room than until we complete our call because what he is saying is triggering her and she is spiraling out of control right now. She was crying saying how no matter how she tries, she just cannot be in the program. That it may be a good program for some, but not for her. I told her I was sorry to hear that but that she cannot come home until I see huge improvements. She told me I will not see any because she cannot be there. She said they constantly trigger her by making snide comments. How the staff are very immature and will go out of their way to single her out and say things they know bother her, etc.  While I’m still keeping her there because no matter where I send her DD will react like this, but honestly, I feel she is not going to get anything out of this program. She said she has bruises all over her from being retrained so many times. Admitted that the majority of times were her own fault but said once she went to run and decided it wasn’t worth it and the staff tacked her anyway with his knee in her back and put her face in the dirt. As hard as that is to hear, I know for a fact that would not do that for nothing. We ended the call with my begging for her to please try, her crying that she can’t and that she loves me before hanging up. She also told me she was feeling suicidal.  I asked the therapist to put her on something. Now they finally agree.

Ray

I don't know how to say this but your dd is manipulating you. I don't know if this is the right program for her but if this isn't the place then I don't think there is any place that will be able to help her. When she continues to blame other around her for her actions then she is just repeating the poor coping skills... . running away... . lashing out at staff and other patients.

Why do you think she will get nothing out of this program?

No RTC is going to help your dd as long as she continues to make bad choices, treat people the way she does, and manipulate others into thinking she's a victim and is being "triggered" into poor behavior. Stay strong and don't let her play you.   

I love you guys. I've definetly gotten a bit of a tougher skin with her being away. I'm getting better at not reacting to her rants. And I'm beginning to start basking in the glory of this repeave.

I agree with the others that your d. is manipulating you.

Since she is has shown to be a run risk, she was assigned someone to watch her closely. This is a good decision on the part of the RTC. They are trying to keep her safe. And, she is feeling the consequences of this. Of course she is going to feel triggered. She needs to deal with it. Even if she is on the phone with you, she still needs to deal with the fact that he is there. Don't rescue and instead use the skills you are learning here.

Your D. successfully split you and her treating team. This undermines the efforts of the RTC. You don't know that this is the right RTC, but every opportunity that your D. finds within you to rescue... . i.e. asking them to leave the room, negates their plan to have her feel the consequences of her decisions.

Can you look back on the phone call and rethink how you might handle something like this in the future. I'm thinking some validation of her feelings and asking her how or what she might be able to do to soothe herself, or what she can do to change her circumstances.

I'm glad to hear you are finding some peace.

Because she refuses to except responsibility and isn't going to put the effort in to change. She is just going through the motions until she gets out. And I believe she would do this anywhere she would go. As stated all of this forum, BPD suffers can only change if they are willing to. She is not.

If you truly believe that Ray then bring her home. I really don't know how you can say what she is going to do... . if that is only based on your experience with her being at home then you are not giving your dd enough credit. You need to be hopeful and confident that she is in the right place.

She is in a place where she is being held accountable for her actions... . she is looking for a way out of that uncomfortable place she is in and doesn't want to change but removing her now only re-enforces those same old behaviors and doesn't give her the opportunity to change and try new ways of coping. The ODD is making her extremely defiant but at some point there will be no more places to run and hide from her problems. You have to believe that this place is going to give her the opportunity to learn new skills and that doesn't happen in a few weeks... . that happens over time.

I think you have come a long way since your dd has been in RTC... . I know how hard it can be and how frustrating when we don't we improvement... . I really think their behavior becomes worse to begin with until they accept the help that is given. Ray, give up your need to control the situation and control your dd... . let the RTC do their job. Your dd needs to see that you are not going to bend and that she is there until improvements are made. If she suspects for a minute she can manipulate you into removing her she will not try one bit... . she knows you too well and she knows how to manipulate you well or she would still be home. Your dd is in a place where she is learning everyday... . you are also learning everyday and it is uncomfortable for you too. Learn to cope with that feeling... . be patient... . believe.

I think you misinterputed my response. Anyway, I'm not taking her out. I'm letting things unfold naturally and pretty much am taking a back seat to the situation and am no longer obsessing over it.

Why would I take her out? At least I know where she is (for the most part) and can actually relax a bit.

This is a great start Ray! It's good that you are letting things unfold naturally and no longer obsessing. Now can you look back over the phone call and see where you contributed to the same cycles?

Yes, it is true that the BPD sufferer needs to want to change, she's not demonstrating that yet. That's okay... . everything that is happening, even when negative, hopefully will help her to start seeing that she can keep doing what she's doing or she can change. Your message is that as long as she keeps doing what she is doing, she can't come home, nor will you rescue.

Remember, and this is so very important, we have to change. We have to take a good, hard look at ourselves and ask where we are contributing to our kids illness. Did you know, we all do that? We are part of the cycle? Change has to happen with us. I believe it has to begin with us. Kind of sucks doesn't it, when we aren't the ones with the bad behaviors.

Look back on the phone call and see where you contributed to her staying stuck. I believe in you Ray. I have seen the progress you are making. Keep trying, keep searching, keep learning, start teaching yourself and practicing the skills. They will help your son too.

I would also like to suggest that as much as you don't like or believe in this RTC, I think it is absolutely crucial that you and the RTC be on the same team. Everyone of you giving your d. the same message. Any crack in the system, your d. will find it.

It might seem that we are being harsh, and I hope it isn't coming off too strong. It's that we believe in you and your d. This site offers so much for each of us. We can be here for each other to listen, to care, to hand hold, and to give a nudges to help us move forward.

Would you be up looking at the phone call with us and practicing different ways to handle a situation like that?

I look forward to hearing back from you.

I don't see anyone on here as being harsh at all. I welcome any and all feedback and suggestions.

:)

I received an e-mail from the RTC. The CM is requesting a conference with DD's probation officer requesting she go back infront of the judge to let the judge know that she is not being compliant with the program. So I didn't have to do a thing. The RTC came to this conclusion on their own because DD is continuing to take off in the woods at night and it's become a safety issue.    I'm guessing the judge will order her back to a shelter until a more suitable RTC is secured, or to JUVI. Oh well. I did what I could.

Ray

I think that is excellent news... . finally some consequences! If she disliked the RTC then she is really going to dislike Juvie. Here is a quote I keep by my computer

"It is not within my power to orchestrate the outcome... . I can only try to create opportunities"

This quote says a lot to me and in times when I am struggling with my dd16 I have to remember it is in her hands.

So last night DD calls me. Told me about this huge riot that occurred the other night. Crazy. Anyway she also asked if I was coming this Saturday (tomorrow) for visit and family session. Nobody had informed me that the visit restriction has been lifted nor that there was a family session scheduled, so I already made plans with DH all day tomorrow. When I told her I would not be coming because of this, she got emotional and asked how we were ever going to work on our relationship if I never come?    She really has no concept of time at all. And she's shifting the blame of her actions, which caused the visit restriction in the first place, to me now. And of course I'm trying to stay strong and not let it get to me, but truth be told, I feel guilty not going. I'm still not going to do it, but of course now my plans will be tarnished because of it. What the heck. I can never catch a break. With all that said, I did email her CM there asking if it's true, if the restriction has been lifted. I also informed her that if it is in fact true, nobody notified me of this and I made plans and now DD is upset with me. Any course now in DD's eyes, I'm chooing my DH over her. I can't win.

I'm going to encourage you to look at this differently... .

1. It does not matter that she thinks you are choosing DH over her. You know your truth.

2. It is normal and good that your DD is upset with you, let her feel it. She will recover.

3. Your plans with your DH do not need to be tarnished. Remind yourself that spending time with your DH is important... . just as important as your DD. Yes, it's a bummer you weren't informed. Take care of you and DH tomorrow. Make the choice to be good to yourself.

4.You are being held emotionally hostage by her. This is common for us and it's hard to break that. I remember it well and I had to tell myself over and over that it is my choice to be held emotionally hostage or not. You can decide not to go there. It's okay to feel bad that you will miss an opportunity or you can decide to change your plans with your DH.

I wish you a peaceful and restful weekend whatever you decide.

Thanks. Turns out DD was misinformed (?).  CM said visits are suspended until further notice.

Hm... . I am only speculating here, I am thinking that she was aware, and was yanking your chain... .

What if the phone call went like this:

DD: "Are you coming this Saturday for visit and family session?"

You: "I would love to, honey. And I will as soon as the restriction is lifted. As far as I know, it's still in place."

DD: "What? They didn't tell you? See? They don't even care, this isn't the right place for me! You need to take me out of here!"

You: "Hm, sweetie I'm sorry it's so upsetting right now... . we'll find out what happened. It looks like I won't be seeing you this weekend. How about I work on my end to find out what happened and you work on your end to earn your privileges back?

I went for the monthly treatment plan meeting yesterday. For whatever reason, every time I see my DD, it sets me back tremendously. I finally got myself to a place where I wasn’t letting things affect me like before; i.e., obsessing over it. Things like the 'what ifs' and such.  And so once again today I am in a funk. It’s not just things with my DD, it’s just life in general. I feel I’ve made some mistakes that maybe, just maybe, contributed to my DD getting so much worse (divorcing her dad, moving from PA to NJ, etc.).  But I know I cannot keep beating myself up about them. That they are what they are and I just need to make the best of it.

Anyway, during the meeting she confessed about feeling the need to interfere when she feels the staff isn’t doing their jobs when it comes to the other youth. For example, one girl tried to kill herself this past Saturday. DD didn’t like how a staff member was handling it (said that when she told him that the girl was suicidal she said he laughed about it which set DD off and resulted in her cussing him out, her being restrained, etc. and him then telling DD why don’t she kill herself and to “tell your mom to go suck a d*ck).  DD said she was the one who had to remove the rope from around the girl’s neck, ultimately saving her…trying to ask to speak to the supervisor who, after all the trouble DD has been in, just told her he didn’t want to hear it and to go back to her house thus prompting DD to call him names.

I told my DD I understand how she must feel. That she has always had empathy for others but that she has to start looking out for herself because she is the one who is getting in trouble. She is the one who is on level 8 (highest level you can get there) and she is the one who hasn’t gotten off of orientation for start resuming visitations. She told me how I know her. How I know she just cannot stand by when she sees something that isn’t right. No matter how we all sat in that meeting to tell her it’s not her battle, she refuses.  She has so much to offer this world. I truly admire her for trying to stick up for those weaker than her. But she doesn’t get it that she is only hurting herself in the process.

After go round and round in the meeting as usual, it came down to the fact that she either complete the program successfully and to do what she knows she is supposed to do, because as they stated, no other RTC will take her now that she is a flight risk.  So it’s that or she continue running off as she has, face the judge and be informed she is not willing to complete the program successfully, and got to jail.

It sounds wonderful but I'm not quick on my feet like that unfortunetly.

There is a family session planned for this Saturday. It will only be the second one. First one was a disaster with the old therapist and all. Down the line, her father will be involved. They recommended it just being her and I at first since she lives with me. I want to include DH this Saturday. I feel like she and him need to start working on their realtionship for when she comes home too. They both hold a lot of resentment towards each other and I would like to start working on that too. Things took a turn for the worst after we all started living together (after we got married) and DH started asserting his authority with installing cameras, calling the police on her, etc. I was the go between and it made me very anxious. A great deal of the anxiety I am feeling is over her and when she comes home and how our life will be again between her and my DH. Do you feel it's too soon to have him come to the sessions? I know he isn't going to like the idea. But should I push it?

Ray

you list a lot of thing you would like to see happen but your H needs to be the one to decide that for himeself... . you can't do that for him.

What does the center think?

How do you mean? What did I list I wanted to see happen?

I feel like she and him need to start working on their realtionship

Your note seemed to talk a lot about how your H and dd relationship needed help and how the things your H has done in the past impacted your lives. I focus less on your H and more on what YOU can do to help improve your relationship with your dd. If the RTC wants just the two of you then I would start there.

Hi Ray, You sound just like I did before I learned skills and began to use them.  :)  I'm going to encourage you to do it anyway, practice it and then it becomes your new normal.

I agree with jellibeans to do what the center is recommending. Also, most likely your D. will only be able to hold focus onto one relationship at a time. Perhaps, she would feel ganged up on with both of you there, or being overwhelmed with the enormity of the work to be done. What is important is that it is clear you are her safe person. That should be where to start.

Someone on here mentioned recently being "held hostage" by our children with BPD.  I've been there and think you are too with your DD.  Her stories very rarely match what the RTC itself is telling you.  Yet every time she tells her version of events, it upsets you and makes you question yourself or the RTC.  That is exactly what your DD wants you to do.  

Given her history of lying to you, maybe you could verify everything she tells you through e-mail with the center.  You can still validate her feelings as she tells you her version of events, but don't assume any of it is true.  Then when you find out her story doesn't match theirs, let her know that the very next time you speak.  Let her know you communicated with the center and they have a different story.  If you do that enough, she might just stop lying to you.  

I would want the RTC to know that your DD claims someone there laughed about a suicide attempt and egged her on to use terrible language to you.  She has to be held accountable for the things she says.  

Hi Ray, that's ok, practice, practice, practice. I have to admit that I am much better in writing than in person, so I have lots to practice too. But the more I do it, the easier it gets and I get faster and more natural at it.

That gives me an idea: if there are things you feel that are important for you to communicate with her, can you write her letters to the RTC?

I also agree with the advice from Being Mindful and jellibeans that having just you and dd on Saturday is better. First things first, and she hasn't even started to comply with the RTC program... .

I've tried some of the skills offered on this forum and DD saw right through it. She's too fricken' perceptive. When I got to the facility for the meeting DD was already in the Admin. building waiting for me. She kept asking various staff members if they were mad at her. They would say no, but even I could see it written all over their faces how disgusted they were with her and she having BPD, she can read faces.

I did get the RTC's side of the story and of course DD embelished her side. The thing is I want her to feel like I am still on her side. She needs to know that someone is even if I actually do take what she says with a grain of salt. Now don't get me wrong. I don't give her the impression that it's us against them but rather tell her I get it. That I understand her frusterations and that even if I don't outwardly react to what she is telling me, things don't go unnoticed and will be addressed. She takes comfort in that. It's very visible. I make sure she knows she is heard.

Oh and btw, I think she's cutting. She's been wearing sweatshirts the last two times I've seen her and it's been hot. I asked her why she was wearing one Saturday at 88 degrees and she said because the shirt underneath was ugly. I whispered to her if she's cutting. She smiled and started talking to someone else about something else. So I'm like 99.9 % sure she is. Should I mention this possibility to the RTC?

That sounds wise to me... .

Yes, my daughter saw right through it too when I started using the skills. I'm sure others have experienced the same thing as our kids with BPD can read us like no one else can. If she is reading through it, then can we help you to practice the skills, because when done correctly, they do work. Can we help you? I promise you they do work. And, I promise you that when used correctly, our kids improve.

You also mentioned that you want her to feel that you are on her side. Good intention, but she doesn't need someone on her side. Alliances with a person w/BPD, especially while in treatment can hold her back. You want her to know that she is loved, in fact so much so that you will do anything to get her the help she needs, even when it is painful. An alliance can mean to her that you support her lies and actions. So, I want to caution you on that.

You said:  "That I understand her frusterations and that even if I don't outwardly react to what she is telling me, things don't go unnoticed and will be addressed. She takes comfort in that. It's very visible. I make sure she knows she is heard."

How about this instead... . validate that you heard her, not that you understand her frustration. Then, ask a question of her to give it back to her so that she can problem solve for herself. For example: You sound very xxx, that must feel xxx. What can you do to xxx?

Yes, tell the RTC that you suspect she is cutting. You cannot be a secret keeper. They can't treat what they don't know.

Hope that is helpful.

Thoughts?

Just received a call from a state trooper advising that a staff member at the RTC is filing a complaint against DD for her pushing her a couple of weeks ago. This is really getting ridiculous!

Which part do you find ridiculous?

All of it! I'm just so tired.

Your dd is having a hard time functioning at RTC... . I can't imagine how difficult she must have been for you at home. Does she have conduct disorder? My dd has the Oppositional Defiant disorder and that is a real challenge too.

Good morning.  Yeah, she has been diagnosed ODD but since then I do believe it's progressed to Conduct Disorder. Oh at home was pure hell. Constant badgering, yelling, cursing and basically doing whatever she wanted even when told no. And no being the huge trigger for her.

Had our family session Saturday; she, the therapist and me. I really love the new therapist. And despite her not telling DD what she wanted to hear, DD seems to have respect for her. It basically went as it has during visits and apparently her one on one therapy sessions. She relentlessy says how RTC's aren't for her, how she knowwhat will and won't work for her and that she can guarantee that she will be worse when she comes out because she's getting worse already being there. Constantly trying to convince me to let her come home home now, do extensive out patient where she goes for the entire day and then comes home at night, etc. I told her that when I start seeing her make progress at the RTC, then we'll talk. She told me she can't. So I said well than I guess you can't come home. I said actions speak louder than words. That what's she's telling me she'd do when she comes home I cannot believe because she has yet to demonstrate that she can behave herself. But there was no yelling on her part which huge progress in and of itself.  The therapist even told her that if she really started putting effort in, she would advocate for her to get passes home even if she has not made status. DD said no matter how hard she tries, she can't. Therapist told her that's her choice. Then DD was talking about how she is inpulsive (something she denied forever) and the therapist told her she clearly was thinking before she ran because she explained how she came to do so. BUT I used that to my advantage. I told DD how can I believe that she can do what she's saying she could do if I allowed her to do put patient when she just said how she is inpulsive and can't help but do bad things. DD was left speechless and the therapist said good one mom! lol.  Anyway I was a bit proud of myself in that whenever DD brought up about coming home I countered with show me you can come home.

PS: Durinmg a moment alone with the therapist she said how she has worked with people with BPD and does not believe DD to have it.   Said however she definetly has ODD.

ExH has been after me for the past week to contact the RTC and tell them they need to lift the visitation restriction, that it isn't fair to the parents, yadda yadda.  I told him no, that I agree with it. That they really have no other leverage and that if DD wants to see us she has the ability by not running and doing what she's suppose to do. I said she needs consequences for her actions. So, he went ahead and sent a message to the CM over there asking when the restrictions would be lifted and the following is her response:

"Restrictions have not been lifted at this time. There was a family session on Saturday and Saturday evening, she ran with the same youth she has been running with. It continued through Tuesday. She was also suspended from school on yesterday for running up and downs the hall. She and a few others had to be confined to one room. Last night she tried to go out of the window but she could not get the window open. Then she tried to push pass staff with no success. I was here last night to witness this incident. I will speak with Mr Wilson and get back to you by tomorrow. Mr. Wilson has left for the day. Sorry that I do not have a better update for you".

Unreal. We had another great session and spelled out what was expected of her and she promised to try and do better. And what's she do? Runs THAT NIGHT!

Ray

This happened to me too. I visted my dd16 at RTC and we had a great visit. Brought her favorite lunch and her sister did her hair. We talked and things were great. 3 hours later she ran away. It was heartbreaking to me and we spend the night worrying about her. The conduct disorder is going to be tough. Hang in there.

It's so incredibly frusterating! Her therapist told her last Saturday that even if she does minor things, i.e., cursing, that could prevent her from making "status", she would still advocate for her to have home passes as long as she didn't run off. DD said she would try. THAT NIGHT SHE RAN! What the heck! She was also told by the therapist that if she started following procedure there, that she would also advocate for her to get out of the program earlier as did her district CM and as did I! And she was also told a few weeks ago at the monthly meeting that if she continued to not complete the program successfully, they will request she go back in front of the judge to be told just that which could result in her going to jail. Yet she chooses to do what she wants. What a fool. Well I'm done. Let the cards fall where they may. I tried.

I just received my update email from the RTC CM just now who pretty much reiterated what she did the ex. But she also added how DD is on the verge of being kicked out of school and how the CM was trying to hold off contacting DD's probation officer to let her know she isn't following procedure hoping DD would make efforts but that based on her behaviours, she chooses not to. She also added how it's really ashame that DD chooses to do all these things when she parents who actually care... .

That's what I was hoping would wake her up as well. Most of the youth at the facility come from poverty stricken homes and abuse. I thought she'd realize just how good she had it and would therefore want to make changes. Nope.

And like I told DH, I guarantee DD will say that she warned me she would get worse here and that it's all my fault. But you know what, I also know this time it will not affect me.

And as expected, I received the following email from ex:

"This place was not the place for her I've been saying this since day one. and I don't understand why she cant be transferred to a different facility. I know they said to be transferred it would have to go in front of the judge and if it went in front of the judge he would put her in juvy because of breaking probation at the facility.

this kid is being totally mistreated its not even funny. shes being treated like a criminal for absolutely stupid ___ing things like hangings with boys.

not for robbery, or theft or attempt to kill somebody, but for breaking curfews and cursing and running to the boys. sounds like a typical teenager. and she's treated like a criminal".

So my response was if he felt that it was typical teenage stuff, he can take her back and he can deal with it. Funny... . I haven't heard a peep. 

Ray

I have to agree with the others that your DD is manipulating you and the staff of the RTC.  She obviously, wants things done her way and is being difficult to try to get thrown out.  

If your dd's current situation is causing you such anxiety, you need to step back and let the RTC do its job. You cannot micromanage what is going on there and remain healthy.  I would ask to be contacted only in case of an emergency or if a serious issue arises and stop the day-to-day reports. This serves no purpose. Is your dd aware you are being informed? This may contribute to her defiance.

See what the new therapist has to offer.  I am sorry your previous advocate has left.  She may have had personal reasons, so do not assume her leaving has anything to do with your dd or yourself.

You cannot help your dd if you do not take care of yourself.  Please get your anxiety under control.  It will help you both to deal with things better.

I received a certified letter from CPS (child protective services) investigating allegations of abuse against my DD at the RTC... . I'm guessing this is from a alledged incident that occurred back in April (the first month DD began there).  Now the only thing I know that happend in April was the incident whereby another youth threw something at my DDand tried to get in to her house to get at DD. But would such an investigation occur if it was something resulting from another youth? I tried calling the man who signed off on the letter, but had to leave a voice mail and have yet to hear back from him.  What's your take on this?

Update: I finally got ahold of CPS. They told me there is an investigation into the RTC and that my DD's name was brought up. Of course they cannot say who filed the report. The allegation is physical abuse. Now as mentioned, they have a physical restrain system only to be used if a youth is a danger to themselves or to others. DD had to be restrained a few times and DD told me a couple times were for no good reason. He asked if DD ever said anything about it. I said I know there was an incident with another youth and I cannot remember if DD told me she needed to be restrained that time. And I said I have to take what DD says with a grain of salt... . He asked why's that? I said because she wants out of there. But of course I'm thinking God forbid something shady is going on there. What kind of mother would that make me? Yes I realize that it's a consequence to DD's repeated lies and because I know she's trying to get kicked out of there. But still... .

He asked if I had any concerns. I told him that my concern is how the youth are able to take off into the woods so often. He was surprised to hear this was happening. So I feel good that at least I have eyes and ears out there too.

I don't blame anyone from trying to keep me focused on not falling for DD's manipulation, but from the beginning I had bad feelings. But I felt it was me just not having control... . :'(

If the RTC has anything to hide, an investigation should prove it, and open the door to change.

I am so sorry ray, worrying about your child's safety is the worst... .

Of course it could all be an investigation into a legitimate issue and of course there is a possibility that there are real problems.

At the same time, this sequence of events would leave me wondering, if the ex might be behind things:

June 6:


June 9:

The thought has crossed my mind. He does not like not having control.  In our last conversation (via email) he said I have my opinion and he has his to which I responded that's right so unless you want to take her, keep yours to yourself.  This after he was going on and on about how DD is

a normal teenager who does normal teenage things' alluding that she shouldn

't even be in an RTC.

I spoke to DD and her therapist over the weekend on the phone and they both said DD made status for the week. But now I just checked with her CM and she said DD lied, that she did not make status and in fact ran again last night around 9:30 pm - 2:30 am with 3 other females and 7 males... . what the heck!

I don't understand how these kids are getting away... . it really doesn't make sense.

Raymaytay, I am starting to agree with your DD and your ex that this really not be the place for her, but not because it's too strict or not able to help her or treating her badly as they seem to think.   It's not the place for her because it allows her too much freedom and is not nearly secure enough. 

Your dd is going to push the limits of any place that is not a secure, lock-down facility.  She is going to get away with as much as she can, and apparently they are unable to control her or even keep her there.  I think your daughter needs the strictect environment possible just to keep her safe from herself and her behavior. 

If she can't/won't make some big changes, jail is in her future.  As hard as I know this would be for me accept if I were in your shoes, my advice would be to let her PO know what is going on (or have the RTC contact the PO) and allow the chips to fall where they may.  She is going to end up locked up because of her choices, and that will not be your fault.  You've done everything you know to do.  Something has to get her attention. 

Is this even an option? Not that I would advise it, but I was under the impression that it's RTC or juvie for your DD with no option to go home for the time being... . Did I misunderstand?

RTC's are either locked or not. Which is it for this RTC?

It's my impression that the judge we have is taking what I'm recommending and ordering it (first by sending her to Juvi, then to a shelter rather than to my custody and then to an RTC. I spoke to the lawyer about what I would like to see happen and he waved a magic wand and it was done.  The judge will recommend somehing and look at me and I shake my head yes or no and she goes with it). However at this stage of things, I'm pretty sure it's now out of my hands. If she did what she was suppose to do and we went back and I made my recommendations to the lawyer, saying I wanted her home or that ex was given full custody and she could go there, I'm sure it would happen.

Not. I chose it because I wanted DD to feel better about where she was going (less restrictive) as she is deathly afraid of mental hospitals (she's been in three for short stints with each saying how I have my hands full). But she now leaves me no choice and it sucks - to put it midly.

Ray, Look at your statement above closely... . I've highlighted in red where emotions may have directed decisions, instead of your DD's absolute needs. Also, most everyone would be afraid at mental hospitals, and that is where validation statements can go a long way. Hope that is helpful and doesn't sound critical.

Are you taking good care of yourself through all of this?

Today I took a step in trying to take care of myself. I had my Dr. prescribe me Venlafaxine. I hope it helps.

Does anyone know of or have epxerience with this?

Ray

I am glad you saw a doctor. I assume this is an anti-anxiety med.  Personally, I could not deal with my BPDs without my Zoloft.  I have a family history of anxiety and depression.

I hope this makes your life easier to tolerate.  It may take some time to kick in, so be patient.

It a new Dr., so I had to go in for a physical and figured I'd bring up the anxiousness and depression I've been feeling lately.  I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin a few years ago (had a stroke and had anxiety about getting another), but went off due to the side affects. I'm a little concerned about the side affects of this one, but am willing to try it out. I hear the withdrawal symptoms are horrible though. We shall see. I do know it takes awhile to "kick in".

Received an update about DD. She is STILL running at night. She came back the other MORNING with hickies on her neck! At this point I'm completely afraid she's going to get pregnant. CM told me DD's probation officer is coming to the facility Thursday. WTH is DD's problem? Is this her new plan; to get herself knocked up? Grr!

Ray, What is the RTC doing in regards to additional supervision for your daughter? Have they considered getting the police involved when she runs? She is a danger to herself and needs greater protection. What about a CHIPs petition?

Hi Raytay,

I've just read up on your daughter's escapades.  I'm so sorry she hasn't gotten with the program.  It must be so scary for you!  If she's running every single night, then she needs to be moved immediately.  I would even talk to the RTC today and ask that she be transferred to a hospital until you can arrange for her to be moved to a more secure facility.  Obviously she doesn't realize how unsafe she is being or does realize it and doesn't care.  It really doesn't sound like this facility is equipped to handle a runner. 

When my dd was in rtc, she was in two different facilities.  The first one was locked and the second one was unlocked.  After we moved her to the second one, she ran on her second day there.  I talked to her and told her if she did it again I'd move her to someplace she couldn't run.  Maybe even back to the dreaded first one.  She never tried again.

Hi Ray, I have been thinking about your DD and her running. When my DD was in RTC, there were periodic runners for sure, but there was a specific protocol that the RTC followed. Can you ask your RTC what is the protocol. Also ask them what is being done to protect your DD, since she is getting past their supervision. At my DD's RTC, there were frequent bed checks, and supervision nearly at every door at night time. Every kid was accounted for, but there were times they still got past it.

I think you are at a very critical place and need to dig in to get some answers and most important some changes, either within this RTC or a locked facility.

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