BPDFamily.com

Hello to all,

I had some closure after the break up with my ex. That time I was hoping for a second chance.

She painted me black and brought to the surface some words I had said in the past. And because of these she

couldn't feel the same way again.

During the day I have these thoughts starting with the "what if". For example, if I had reacted differently,

what would have happened.

I can't forget my faults (I emphasize not cheating).

I suppose because of my sense of responsibility, my codependency, my perfectionism,

my love, my strong willingness to make it work or my FOG (2.5 months later?)

I can't measure and understand their significance and their role in the relationship (maybe this is my problem).

I can't say my mistakes in public. But I would be grateful if you could share some of your mistakes which were

the initial points for the devaluation phase.

well there were some things I could do with her that would be totally unacceptable with a nonBPD girl.

For me the devaluation process seemed to begin shortly after she really fell in love with me. Had me make all these promises of starting a life together.  The when there were some grown up expectations of equity.  Or she would just kind of leach and not give much back in return anymore because she knew she had me.  The moment I expressed disapproval of the way she was acting the devaluation began. 

Are these the things that you think made your partner devalue you? Because, whilst we will all admit that looking at your role in the relationship is important, it is NOT your fault that you were devalued. It's the disorder's fault. You didn't make a mistake which reduced your value to her, the way that you could say in a typical relationship 'I dumped my partner because they (for example) cheated on me.' From everything I've read, anyway, BPD doesn't necessarily work that way.

I could imagine that examining your issues with codependency might help you, though, with letting go, and stopping feeling like it's all your fault.

Keep posting! We're listening :)

You can do something about the faults you see within yourself.

She may have exaggerated/projected some, to push herself away.

Remembering your mistakes so you don't make them again is  |iiii.

Thanks myself. Even though I'm perfectionist for certain things, I believe that everyone has the

right to make mistakes. She didn't even give me a chance to prove that I will not repeat them again.

But how many times did I forgive her? For all this hurt and rejection.

It really gets on my nerves when it was all about her finding excuses to end the relationship. Especially a relationship in which

she had found her "soulmate".

The dumper's excuses of course are common even in relationships with non BPD.

Anyway all concludes to the question if they really cared about us and how deep was their love.

Hey Alex86, We've all played the "What if . . . " game, but the reality is that it's doubtful that anything you might have done or not done would have led to a different outcome, because in my view a r/s with a pwBPD is generally not built to last.  The disorder is too complex and the issues run too deep, in my view, to sustain a r/s over the long haul.  I should know, since I was married to a pwBPD for 16 years!  So give yourself a break.  BPD is a lot bigger than you, my friend.  Hang in there, LuckyJim

I withdrew from her emotionally and also with physical affection, though it wasn't cut off completely as she implied. No excuse for her cheating (on the kids, too, because she partially neglected them to pursue her juvenile romance).

So yes, I was a bit passive-aggressive in a way. But how do I process that in the context of a r/s with a pwBPD traits? With a cheater who was triggered by finding out about her father's kept woman in winter of 2012? (one of many over the years). It's too bad we never got to talk about this trigger, and it was big one. Her mother noticed her behaviors changing first. Before this, I started asserting myself and standing up for myself more. A friend noticed this months ahead of time before the r/s started deteriorating. My uBPDx always told me to do this. I did, valuing myself more, and being less of a Parent to her. I don't think that was wrong, but it did change our initial "contract" of how our r/s was for years.

As my T said, it was confusing because she did verbalize snippets of truth about me, but it was mixed in with disorder, confusion, lies, betrayal, distortions... . you get the picture.

It took me a long time to realize this on an emotional level, so the  FOG is pretty much dissipated.

All in all, I think a person who truly values his or her self could not sustain a LTR with a person with strong BPD traits. At least that's how I feel about me.

only feel bad for something that is a part of you that you would have done absent being with an emotionally abusive person and that you feel you need to improve.

for instance, i can be aloof and not put my emotions into words as much as i need to. so i can take r/s for this in my r/s with uBPDx--but only b/c i realize that i have this issue also in other healthy r/s that i've had before and after. still though, this isn't the reason why the r/s ended at all. in fact if anything i'm glad i steered clear of spilling my heart out to my xBPDgf too much because in the end she deserved none of it.

another instance that had me going for a while was anger. after ending the r/s with uBPDxgf i thought i had anger issues that i needed to work on. given time though i don't feel bad or guilty about being 'angry' in the r/s at all. this is because i've had time to realize that the only reason why i was so angry was because i was being abused and manipulated. outside of this r/s i don't act like this at all and i took responsibility to end the r/s as well. it was scary feeling that i had big issues... . and well i did have anger issues but now i understand the context.

also, why would you even begin to believe that what you did/said are the actual reasons why your ex couldn't feel the same way again because of your words? kidding me? Alex86, ok, it's *possible* that your words had some affect, but really if your ex behaves like a pwBPD you could have been *perfect* and she still would have treated you exactly the same. I'd call BS on anything she says about these 'words' you said making her not be able to feel the same--first of all she probably can't control her own emotions anyway. second of all perhaps the context in which you said them were because of her abuse.

by all means, take ownership of what you feel you did wrong. but only after removing *all* influence this toxic person's opinion may weigh on the matter. if you weren't the 'bad guy' at some point in the r/s then she would invent something to make you bad, or even better she would say she was bored because you were too nice. something to think about... .

A common symptom of a flea from an interaction with the Disorder is that the partner takes on all the responsibility for the fixing.   I've gone through the what if scenarios ad infinitum.  I blame myself for this blow up, or that letter, that time I got mad, or that involuntary glance at the young hot girl in the bikini who smiled at me... .

But, that is just participation in the Disorder.  Over responsibility with little control or power to influence.  Basically my messed up childhood.  And that's why it felt normal.

We are the rescuers.  We are the fixers.  We believe that with more understanding we can solve the problem.

And, while I was absorbing all the responsibility, my exwBPD, couldn't take any of the responsibility.  All she could do was project the blame and shame onto me, which in my FOG and FOO issues, willingly and destructively absorbed.

Now I take blame for half of the issues.  That is, MY half of the issues.  But I don't take blame for the Disorder.  It was there long before I arrived, and will be there long after I've been forgotten (which sadly happened almost overnight.)

I didn't cause it, I can't cure it, and I can't even control it.

The Disorder is more powerful than me.  The Disorder always wins.

Repeatedly blaming myself for not fixing the Disorder in my ex, is me continuing to participate in the Disorder.  

Oh, and I can't forget my mistakes either.  I remember everything, a true curse.   But I'm also learning the process by which I can begin to forgive my transgressions.   Mistakes with good intentions don't necessarily need forgiveness.  But my transgressions need forgiveness from and for myself.   

Alex,

I totally understand where you are coming from.  I'm 6 months out of a 3+ year r/s with uBPD/NPD ex gf.  It has taken a good amount of T (started 1.5 years into the r/s and had a session this week) to find healing and detachment.  Much of my T has been to help me release the guilt associated with my own actions in the r/s, for leaving the r/s and my ex gf's three young kids, and to help deal with much FOO.  My ex gf attempted contact a couple times during the last ten days triggering feelings of guilt and self protection in me.  Again, T has been the key to helping me confront and release the guilt I was feeling.

I can easily say that I didn't deal with her issues well.  I was defensive at times.  I withdrew emotionally at times.  I yelled louder at times when I was desperate for her to hear me.  I quit the last of three couple's T attempts when I saw that she wouldn't own up to the abuse.  I stayed in the r/s too long even though I was obviously not happy and fulfilled.  I now understand that there was no way for me to be prepared for what I'd confront with her words, actions and overwhelming emotional abuse (and eventual physical abuse).  It wouldn't have mattered how I would have acted in the r/s, things would not change and most likely were going to grow worse evidenced by the increased physical abuse during the last month of the r/s.  I have moved on and feel like I can now live, love, laugh and grow.  

Please give yourself a break.  As Tausk posted: "The Disorder is more powerful than me.  The Disorder always wins."  That is so true!  What we can all do is take control of ourselves and deal with our own issues.  Find peace, self love and self acceptance to move forward with healing and detachment.  It does get easier... .

Alex,

I totally understand where you are coming from.  I'm 6 months out of a 3+ year r/s with uBPD/NPD ex gf.  It has taken a good amount of T (started 1.5 years into the r/s and had a session this week) to find healing and detachment.  Much of my T has been to help me release the guilt associated with my own actions in the r/s, for leaving the r/s and my ex gf's three young kids, and to help deal with much FOO.  My ex gf attempted contact a couple times during the last ten days triggering some leftover feelings of guilt and self protection in me.  Again, T has been the key to helping me confront and release the guilt I was feeling.

I can easily say that I didn't deal with her issues well.  I was defensive at times.  I withdrew emotionally at times.  I yelled louder at times when I was desperate for her to hear me.  I quit the last of three couple's T attempts when I saw that she wouldn't own up to the abuse.  I stayed in the r/s too long even though I was obviously not happy and fulfilled.  I now understand that there was no way for me to be prepared for what I'd confront with her words, actions and overwhelming emotional abuse (and eventual physical abuse).  It wouldn't have mattered how I would have acted in the r/s, things would not change and most likely were going to grow worse evidenced by the increased physical abuse during the last month of the r/s.  I have moved on and feel like I can now live, love, laugh and grow.  

Please give yourself a break.  As Tausk posted: "The Disorder is more powerful than me.  The Disorder always wins."  That is so true!  What we can all do is take control of ourselves and deal with our own issues.  Find peace, self love and self acceptance to move forward with healing and detachment.  It does get easier... .

do not take anything said by her seriously. my therapist explained to me that pwBPD can get delusions. like if they find you perfect they will just imagine anything to make you look having a void. it is a self defensive mechanism present by the disorder to deny itself.

have not you noticed that pwBPD never say sorry ? never take blame ? can not face themselves with anything bad about themselves ?

have not you heard of projection ? maybe she was projecting on you the bad stuff that she has also said during the relationship ?

considering the words of a BPD is like considering the chance that a fish  is gonna climb a tree

Now granted I am a bit tired today because of the 10 phone calls to my house phone during the night last night from an "unknown" number... . hum wonder who that could have been... .

But I am with the rest of you in saying that I went over and over the "mistakes" in the relationship.  What I came up with is I had two main mistakes that played over and over again.  The first is that I allowed my boundaries to be crossed (and I took responsibility for the results of her crossing them).  Second is that I am not perfect... . In the future I will continue to not be perfect and I don't want to be, but I will without a doubt not allow my boundaries to be crossed, and I will not take the responsibility for someone crossing them... . If someone can't have respect for me I don't want them in my life.

So true mate. This is why they feel guilty afterwards. Are they really so selfish to say just a simple

sorry and get over it?


Exactly... . :)


Yes. I was trying to really comprehend and solve it. I couldn't and maybe can't "accept" how and why

I didn't solve it.

In the end I got so much tired. Like most of you I didn't have the power for any further arguments.

But of course she thought that I didn't care anymore-->I didn't love her anymore-->I would leave her. 

So she left me first.


They really can't hear us. We are trying so desperately to help them but... . so sad  :'(

I hadn't put so much effort into anything before this experience.

Alex,

There is a great book called "The Gifts of Imperfection" that really helped me see the difference between performing at a high level (being a high achiever) and perfectionism as a way to avoid pain, avoid feeling unworthy and avoid risk.

Humans make mistakes - it is part of the human experience.  We do our best, we learn, we grow - sometimes it is quite painful and sometimes life takes us in a direction we didn't plan.  Use your gifts to look deep within so you can forgive yourself.

Being blamed for not being "enough" when we did our best - it really cuts into our core issues.  Own what part is true, but really give back the parts that are not... . most of us here have had a lot of crap heaped on us that had threads of truth, but not exactly the whole truth.

It helped me when I "radically accepted" my ex and I had very different perceptions of the relationship and as real as mine is for me, hers was just as real.  Fair, nope - but it is par for the BPD course.

Keep posting, keep learning and keep feeling your feelings.

Peace,

SB

Mine could never accept responsibility for anything, or apologise. However, she DID start to learn to apologise... . or at least, to say the words! Her previous , same sex, partner ( the only person she has hardly ever painted black to me, but That's another story ) who she insisted I meet ( big surprise) was once amazed to here my uBPDxgf actually say sorry to me !

On the subject of being unable to forget your mistakes, remember this... .

Of you'd made the same mistakes with a 'normal ' person, they wouldn't have been big deals.

Every mistake that she threw at me, well, I know now that I was right to think she was overreacting ... . normal people don't hold grudges like that.

After a 3+ yrs. out now, I have had a lot to think about, incl. my role which I also intensively discussed with my Psychiatrist. Conclusion was that I absolutely was not co dependent, however took my responsibility towards my family “to serious” whatever the costs=> special for me…

Due, yes, in my case, my upbringing, in which in every brain cell is printed to take responsibility for my sister as the weak one (Down Syndrome).

The biggest what / if question is that when exw by our family doctor (in presence of me!) was strongly “advised” to see a T for her behaviour, I accepted her refusal!  That I didn’t  demand her to go for the sake of the family, for the sake of her!   Can’t figure out why I didn’t.

Not to hijack, but to see the perspective


A BPD does not feel guilt in that stage, they feel shame.

Shame is the 1st and most primitive reaction of us all (you can’t control if you blush or not)

Guilt is a higher level of awareness. It means being able to self reflect ones behaviour and change it.  

Shame = I am wrong and hurts our self image

Guilt = I did something wrong and have the capacity to do something about it, to change.

Related to our experiences, most of never received a “sorry” for our SO’s behaviour.

That hurts and leaves us wandering around and around.

They were experiencing intense shame…

Expressing “sorry” without change, is social correct behaviour…

Further, how can a BPD take blame at the moment you are perceived as persecutor?