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I am in love with this person and have been 2 months nc with one chance meeting.  Today I came home and received this letter. 

She ran off taking condoms from my flat.  was serially unfaithful and abusive.  this letter has practically destroyed me.  What are her intentions please

Dear xxx,

3 months into our marriage we would have been.  Just because I am not in love with you anymore it doesn't mean i never did and it certainly doesnt mean i dont care. I am mourning for you. but when i saw you in the street last month i felt terrible as you reflected what i have done to you over the time that we have known each other.

You are so wounded and so romantic and so utterly deep in trouble, you fall deep into a pit of despair and that hurts me to see and to know these things.

You are my addiction.  my best parts and my worst.  I am so sorry. I have learnt so much with you and i want nothing more than for you to be happy. to find someone who treats you with the respect you deserve.  Because you have been through so much and I have put you through some of the best and the worst.

I understand that we never fully closed off our love properly - we've done it so often but so little.

I know you aren't living in xxx anymore because i saw.  so i hope this letter finds its way to you.

thank you so much for giving me the strongest emotions ive ever felt whilst knowing you.  I will strive to dig deep and use these in positive ways and learn from them and share them with the greatest of love i did once bare for you.  I still cry and i still worry about you.  we came so close and we must always remember the love that we had for one another - mainly ontop of the church

yours

xxx

in conclusion she has been watching my house. well out of her way. sorry all please help.  can i respond is there a chance of a reconnection

basically i am 2 seconds away from ringing her and spilling my guts

I can understand how you feel.  I want nothing more to know that my x cared for me!  I really don't know what I would do in your position but what I can say is give yourself some time.  Don't respond right away if it all.  Take a walk and give yourself some time to think. 

Hi Front Runner,

Firstly, please step away from the letter. You need time to process this as at this very second your emotions and thoughts are whirling round and you need to give them time to settle before you do anything.

What do you want to say back to her?

BR x

Hi,

I want to say that im not completely broken, doing good work etc.  that i still love her and would like to get back together.  how do you think that would go down?

Sorry to say that but it's not going to work out.

In your introduction post you were getting out of a BPD r/s and got into another one that is a substance abuser? Have I got that correct? What was your experience from the last outcome and how did that work out? Where do you think this BPD r/s is headed?

hi mutt.  same girl... .

I agree with BlondeRunner. Do nothing until you have had some time to process this. I think we would all say to you, 'MAINTAIN NC!' but I can understand why you are finding that so hard at the moment. Spend some time thinking about why you broke up in the first place, and if the same things which caused conflict then would still be present if you reunited.

Hugs,

Red

Hey Front runner,


So she feels shame and guilty as expected. I think this is a good thing.


IMO this is classical from a pwBPD. Who do YOU think you deserve?


I assume you understand that this is a pull back attempt.

In my last communication with my ex she told me almost the same things and we agreed to meet. After two days she cancelled it feeling she wasn't ready.

I think the question she must answer is how much she loves you and if she is willing to do whatever it takes to make it work.

If the answer is yes to the above I would take her back but this would be my firm boundary.

In the end, Front runner you have to follow your heart.

If nothing works you will be at least satisfied with yourself saying afterwards that you

did everything you could, you forgave her but it was beyond your powers.

If you don't accept her back you will be tortured with the "what if" question.

This is my humble opinion.

Guilt is a more mature emotion developmentally than shame, not experienced in the paranoid-schizoid position they stuck in.

You made a good point and it was an important part of the detaching process for many of us. At the same time, keep in mind you deal with someone unable to form meaningful adult relationships.

Hi front runner,

I'm sorry that you are feeling so torn.  If you are anything like me, you are feeling a very urgent impulse to reach out to your ex.  If that's what you are experiencing, it is coming from fear. You want to soothe yourself by contacting her.  :)o not reach out from this place, it will only put you in a position to get very hurt – again.  Use your head as well as your heart, it will help you.

I agree with others: take a time out.  :)o not reach out in anxiety.  I've been there more times than I'd like to recount and have always regretted it.

To soothe these very understandable feelings, go do some exercise, talk to a friend, write here on the boards, breathe deeply. Give yourself time to respond from a centered place.  Remember who you are: a loving person who deserves a healthy and happy relationship.

I know how hard this is.  We're here for you.  

Hi Front runner, if posting can give you a bit of breathing space to process what the letter has understandably stirred up in you then keep posting it might help bring everything back to baseline for you, so you respond from your head and not your heart.

If you can't wait like Alex86 posted, then doing all that you feel you must so that you know for sure you tried is fine too.

Be kind to yourself for whatever decision you make ,knowing that it is the right one for you in that moment, whatever the outcome.

Hi,

So shes saying I brought out the best and worst in her.  Meaning her drug and sex addictions with a bit of physical violence on the side.

Shes admitting she screwed around and this obviously hurt the hell out of me.

Yes I would get back together if i could but i dont want it to be like how it was before.  shes not saying she wants to get back together but i think she wants a response and i think she wants me to try and get back together with her

she tells me i am her addiction (is that projection).  

she tells me i am broken and in a pit of despair.  this maybe true but how does she know that! as i havent had any contact in five weeks.

she doesnt know where im living or what im up to.  this is a good card for me to have up my sleeve.

i would like to be in a position to lay down boundaries if we were to reconcile.  if i leave it will she try and make contact again? or should i send her some upbeat message?  whats the best way to handle the situation.

Thanks

On one hand, the moment I read that I thought:

Yes but everyone is different and it might the case that she will change. Especially if we're talking about his wife.

In general, I think people deserve a second chance. But with a serious attempt and will trying to change by not repeating the past.

Following the above, I tried to get together with my ex but I, myself, came to a point understanding that it won't work between us.

But I had to try that so as to prove it to myself and accept it.

I apologize for my misunderstanding.


As other members have stated it's best that you get back to your emotional baseline, you are feeling anxiety and this person is a source of soothing right now? Do you feel like this is applicable to how you feel?

She is emitting FOG. Base your choice on how you feel. If you are done, resist the impulse with responding back as difficult as it is. It's tough, but the more that you resist it eventually becomes easier and second nature but the process takes time and we need to be gentle with ourselves.

Perhaps identify that this is a trigger for you. NC will give you the distance to heal and we absolutely have to detach from a pwBPD. It takes time for the heart to catch up with our heads, it's the way that it is.

If you are not sure, you can post on the Undecided Board: Staying or Leaving (http://www.[url=https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=2.0) and members there can guide you. Don't feel shame for changing your mind. I'm sorry that you are having difficulties.

 

I am sorry you are stuck in the place where you are at this moment.  I know all too well the feelings you have swirling around in your heart and head - and I know it isn't an easy place.  All of the feedback you have been receiving so far from all the members is as awesome as I have come to expect from the support here.  Hopefully my words will come across the same.

But I feel compelled to do something a little more direct at this point, because I know I needed to hear it when I was going through it the way I'm about to do it.  Yes, I may not have fully heard it and digested it if someone would have been this direct with me back then... . but, I can appreciate the fact that it was put in front of me to chew on.  

That being said... . please know my support with you right now is only to focus on you.  You need to heal.  So these are for you and meant to be a wind in your sails.  So... . here we go:


We all can bring out the best and sometimes worst in the people we are involved with.  That is just natural and normal.  But the meaning of it "is it her drug and sex addictions" and so forth - don't mistake it to mean that you are the cause of any of her issues... . just as she isn't the cause of any of your issues.  Only you... . ONLY YOU... . have control over you.   There are times that we (collectively) give over that control to our S/O, or at least it comes across like that - but in the end, it is really about you and what you set as what you want for your life.

If you want to be with someone who abuses drugs (or anything else) and you are feeling pains because of such a r/s... . then who really is causing the issues?  Certainly it isn't her.  If you "accept" her behavior - then it isn't a problem... . it's a choice.


Yes.  She is admitting that - and yes, it obviously hurt you.   And?

What do you want to do about it?  Stay and run after someone who (for whatever reason) does this to you?  


First... . why on this planet would you WANT to get back together with someone who (for whatever reason) thinks so little of lying to you and hurting you and sleeping around on you?  Yes, I understand your thoughts may be because "I love her"... . but... . really?  You "love someone" who has and can hurt you with such disregard?

And if she wants a response... . uhm... . so what?  She made her choice - now you make yours.

Your choice is clear.  Either you get healed in yourself and (trust me... . there is so much more other life out here than a s/o who can treat you in this fashion)... . or... . go back to a life of misery with someone you KNOW will continue to treat you the same.

The choice... . ultimately - is yours.



It is no more of a projection than you hearing that "she loves you" and you are projecting some fantasy woman on top of who she actually is.


She can say this because you are.  It isn't difficult to surmise whether you haven't had contact in five weeks or five years.  It is what it is.  The question in and of itself is moot because the response to the question is true.  So, let that one just go. No reason to wrestle with it.


"Card up your sleeve"?  What is this you are doing with your life... . playing some kind of a game?  A magic trick?  This is real life.  And life isn't easy... . even when things are calm.  You need to do something to get your head clear... . focus on you - because, again... . this is about you.  Not her.  Not her illness.  You and yours.


Again... . why on gods green earth would you want to reconcile with someone who you KNOW has treated you in such a manner?  What is it that is going on with you that you think you deserve to be treated in such a way?

My T once asked me "What is it you are getting out of this r/s?"  I didn't understand it at first.  I was in a miserable marriage, but I stayed - way longer than I should have.  Intellectually I knew it was over years and years ago - but emotionally I stayed and continued to get her (and when her lies and cheating became obvious... . I fought even harder to "make her stay" and try to fix it).  But for what?

I was obviously getting something out of it - or thought I could be getting something out of it.

The answer to that question was for me to come to (which I did) - after much reflection on ... . me.

My happiness started and ended with me.

If you want a direct answer to what you need to do about that letter... . fold it up, and put it in a drawer.  Pick up your remote control and watch some TV.  Or go for a jog.  Or go work out.  Or go to church.  Or take a nap.

Anything but sit there and try and give more energy, time and yourself to a situation which doesn't exist.

You are more better than all of this.  Let that go... . and figure out why you allow this to be around you.

You are getting (or wanting) something out of it... . and until you figure this out, the peace you are looking for will always elude you.

As for her... . right now... . she is a hot flame that you are stickinig your hand in and then asking "Why does it burn... . and what can I do to stop the burn."

And the short answer is - don't stick your hand in the flame.

The problem is, you try to apply rational thinking to a mentally ill person. They can not change as they lack the capacity to self-reflect.

Would you consider touching a burning stove again, knowing that temperature in the surface often goes past 600 °F, while the proteins in your skin start to break down at only 110 degrees?

I made my decision to leave my ex husband for pretty much the same reasons you left your wife. I have kids with my ex so that was my catalyst, not showing the kids that this is tolerated.

I did r/s after our separation last year. I had to do that for me, to prove to myself that I have done everything in my power to save the relationship.  So I truly, truly understand where you are coming from.  

In my case, the honeymoon period lasted 3 weeks. I stuck around for another 7 months before throwing in the towel for mine and the kiddos sanity.  My ex quit drugs but his new addiction was other women. He never fixed the hole in his soul. His addictive tendancies are too great for him.

Do what you need to do but give yourself a few days to disengage. Make a rational decision not based on emotion. You are allowed to do that. We all have choices, your ex included. Remember that. If one is ruled by their fleeting emotions they will always be ruled by fleeting emotions.

Good luck friend. I wish you well.

Besides the very good reply woodsposse made, there is something more to consider.

If you do go back, there will be a subconscious agreement/ understanding that she is allowed to treat you bad, because no matter what, you will come back. These patterns are so very hard to break, BPD or not. Take care!

This is so incredibly true.  BPD or not - we teach people how to treat us.

If you go back (and trust me, I use to go back time and time again over the past 27 years between my first and second wife) - and all I did each time was set it up so that there was the subtext that whatever the behvior is is 'acceptable' because I always let them come back (or moped around in a daze until they 'let me back' into their life).

Either way - that is not how we were meant to live.

Hey FR,

I am so sorry you are going through this. I can so identify with you. I can see myself just a few short months ago.

First of all, you already are doing the right thing. You are posting here looking for a right path.

In doing so, you brought out some of the best, brightest, and most experienced people on this site. The advice here does not get any better. You created a thread that has helped more people than you could imagine, myself included. I hope it is helping you.

I am not one of the best and brightest here, as I am not that far out of the relationship yet. But I am out. Just had a great weekend, the first in so many years!

But here is my two-cents.

Mutt picked up on it when he advised you to check out the "undecided" board. Clearly one can see you are undecided. Not that you shouldn't be here. You definitely should be here as well. Take in all the information you can. I came to this board for months while still having my status as "undecided." I came here just to see, to test the water. After months, I realized I should be here. One of the hardest parts of my healing was when I switched my status from "undecided" to "leaving." I will never forget that day. Such a small thing meant so much.

I can understand why you may not be there yet. I NEVER thought I would be here. Whether it was the profound love I had for her, or the trauma-bond everyone speaks of, I know there is a path leading us to be together.

I would simply add that perhaps you also take sometime to look at the "staying" board as well. Read what it will take to follow that path. Setting boundaries is only one small step. Even setting boundaries is so complicated with a pwBPD. Look at the tools that it takes to stay in a r/s with a pwBPD. Look at the S.E.T. communication tools. Look at all that it takes to follow this path

I for one, know there is a path for my ex and I to be together. It is a life consuming path. Even if I commit myself to the love I feel for her and except the enormous amounts of energy it would take to follow this path, there is still one fatal flaw. She would have to be just as committed and willing to expend the energy to follow this path as well. As much as I know this path exists, I know she will never be that committed. I would always be on that path alone.

All of this advice may not meet you where you are at currently, but bookmark this thread. Return to it often.

Right now, hold onto sweetheart's words:


Cherish equally your steps forward and your steps backward. You are on the right path

Thank you for starting this discussion. |iiii

Dog Biscuit, great point about the subconscious agreement (for the BPDs) being to be able to treat us poorly since we did ultimately return. My ex verbalized this to me during a recycle. He continued to act out, but in his mind it wasnt as bad as it was previously so he felt I shouldnt get mad at all. But thats not how healthy relationships and boundaries work.

Just another point to consider for yourself whether you recycle or disengage.

Thank You all so much for your responses.  A Truly Brilliant bunch. 

I'm going for a weeks holiday on Thursday with a friend.  This was part of my rehabilitation program.

If I contact her before I go, the communication I receive or lack of it is going to destroy the progress i

have made. Is this correct? (having to ask this shows my current head space).  Also it will destroy my holiday.

The other question ive got is if I dont respond do you think she will up her attempts to make contact?

Many Thanks

Yes your follow up questions do show your current head space quite clearly.  And that's okay - it's normal and we have all been there.   :)

Yes, if you contact her before you go - reply or not it stands a good chance your holiday will be impacted.  With her heavy on your mind anyway, there is a good chance this will happen anyway - but opening up a communication can of worms just prior... . yeah - fair bet, holiday impacted.

As for not responding to her will she up her attempts to make contact?  Honestly - who cares?  I mean, you obviously care... . but... . really who cares?  If you want to talk to her... . talk.  If you don't - don't.  If she blows up your phone, messages like crazy via FB or whatnot... . if you reply, that is your choice.  And, at which time, it isn't a problem... . because you chose it.

Go... . be happy on holiday... . do some fun stuff.  If you want to continue to have this problem with her when you get back, it will be here!  It isn't going anywhere until you are ready to leave it.  (man, that was kinda insightful.  I should write that down!) |iiii

Thanks Woodsposse

I think the long and the short of it is she once again wants to occupy 'space' in your head. She gets some satisfaction out of it. Thats what BPD is. It leaches the soul from others, almost like an emotional/spiritual vampire if you will.

Right now you crave that because quite frankly, when we are in a relationship with a BPD, that is all too often what it is. Theres a reason within us of why we allow it and its about US, not them. We allow it. In turn IT 'completes' them but its NEVER enough.

There have been numerous very good comments made by some very experienced here I think.

I would strongly advise to instead of allowing her to once again dwell in your thoughts (where she has proven she will hurt you) focus on your Holiday. Enjoy yourself and think of her as little as you can. Have fun and in due time the craving/need for her should diminish and allow you to focus on why you got there in the first place

Be Well!

My ex was a former addict (alcohol and street drugs). While he had been sober for nearly 20 years when he and I began an r/s, he was still abusive. The disorder was still there.  New addictions replaced the old ones.  

I agree with the insight quoted above.  When my ex and I discussed his abusiveness, he understood what he was doing, and he knew the steps he needed to take to end his abusive behavior toward me. I mistakenly translated those discussions to mean that we had made progress. There wasn't progress.  He swept the problem under the rug for a few days, and the cycle continued. Unfortunately, my going back to him meant (to him) that his behavior toward me wasn't that bad.  That is how he saw it. Toward the end of the r/s that is exactly what he expressed to me.  ("You wouldn't be with me if it were that bad."  

You wouldn't be with me if it were that bad

Heard that exact line from my ex.

I went away this weekend to spend the night with my best friend in the whole world.  My best friend has a terminal brain tumour, she's only 36yrs old.  I want to spend as much time as possible with her before the ultimate end.  On Tuesday of this week, ex made a scene to me about committing himself to doing better if I'd give him another chance (we have to interact because of the kids).  I only realized Saturday night, while visiting my best friend, that he affected me.  I was visiting her but his words kept coming back.  I only told him Monday of last week that I was going away for the weekend (my kids stayed with my parents and go spoiled rotten lol).  By Tuesday he worked himself up so much that he had to have some way to keep me from expending emotions towards someone other than himself.  We don't live together but he can still get to me!

I confessed to my best friend the intrusive thoughts I was having.  She's a saint, told me I DESERVED a night away and he'd be triggered no matter what I did.  I enjoyed myself immensely and will now always have  fabulous memory of a terrific night with my best friend.

Do NOT give her head space.  She will pop in, but shove her out.  You DESERVE this time away.  Please understand that.  You need to leech every enjoyable second out of this.  I hope you do  

No where in that letter does it say she is doing something to help her conditions.   I have my guy that I have little contact with however, he is working Schema and DBT and seeing a doctor.  He was not when we separated.   And I will not do anything until I see some work he is doing on him.  I am tired of all their thoughts and feelings and not being able to have a thought or a feeling on my own.  I would  wait till there is some action on her part to help herself.    And still be very very careful.  That letter again is full of self.  Her thoughts her feelings.   Its hard I know.  But its just words,  I have heard many many words.   

Hello,

After a sleepless anxious, ruminating, sweating horrible night I am still obsessing wildly about the letter.

I haven't replied and my feeling is that I shouldn't.

The letter could be interpreted as an invitation to chase her.  But if I chase her the road its going to take me down is one of pain. she will hold all the keys, the power.  It would affirm that I condone her behaviour towards me.  She will get the validation she wants without any promise of commitment on her part to either try again in the rs or improve her behaviour in it.

so what I am thinking, if I want my fantasy or even a glimmer of hope that she can change and the relationship could work, is that I do nothing and wait.  If I stay nc do you think she will try and reach out again?

I am a basket case

Hey FR,

My opinion is that only YOU know if the right thing is to reply and perhaps go for a reconciliation, if the opportunity presents itself. Personally, I wouldn't advice against that... . As this should be your choice alone.

Better is to give you advice, should you desire to reconnect with her... . I respectfully disagree with Woodsposse: Life IS a game, sad... . But that is the way it is. And especially love. So, if you do want to reconnect, you want to make sure to play your cards right and make sure you get the upper hand and it is on your terms.

Under no circumstances "spill your guts". It shows weakness and is unattractive and might cause her to feel good about herself. It might actually help her to detach. Keep her at an arms length for now.

I would reply something like, "thanks for your letter, I am going on Holliday and I am busy untill then.  If you would like to talk, let's meet up when I get back".

See if she agrees to a meeting, if not she is probably just writing to soothe herself. Also, this will give you peace until you get back. If she pushes for texts/calls before your vacation, tell her that you don't have time, and that you can talk when you get back. Keep her at an arms length. Find whatever excuse necessary (work, family, whatever).

... . either she wants to reconnect (in which case she will agree to a meeting)

or

... . she is trying to justify her decision to herself, and make herself feel better.

Call her out on it...

Wanted to write more before, but my iPad was running out of juice. Hence, the split posts.

I speak from personal experience. It's one of the things I regretted the most was "spilling my guts". After she broke up with me, I went NC/LC (without even knowing there was such a term). We didn't speak for about 1 1/2 month, except for a few messages of practical nature.

Then she started a rage attack on me. That I had moved on too fast and what a terrible person I was. Which was all textbook projection of HER shame, that SHE had a replacement lined up and had been with him, since the day after we split (she had moved on too fast, and blamed me for doing so). An emotionally stabile person doesn't attack her ex, in that case. Had she been happy, and with out emotions towards me, she wouldn't have given me a second thought! And much less have raged towards me. So I think this was actually a window where she had doubts, if the choices she was making were right.

I spilled my guts, on what a mess I was, how much I missed her, how much I would want her back and all the things I would do for her if she changed her mind.

The result was that she, went calm, apologized for the attacks, that she was unaware I felt like that and wouldn't have written had she know it. And then continued to tell me not to get my hopes up and that we were done.

She got her reassurance, that I was still miserable, and she got the strength to calmly continue with the replacement, knowing I was still there, should it fail. I.e. I helped her make sure that she wasn't making a mistake, with what she was doing. I still wish I had responded differently back then (I have long forgiven myself though), but if reconciliation is what you desire, keep you cards close to yourself - until SHE opens up about her feelings.

Thank You. I'm inclined to agree. She's not actually asking me to initiate contact at this stage. The letter is probably designed to give her some validation and keep me on the back burner.

By staying nc I can keep trying to detach and at the same time sending out a message I'm not that readily available for a recycle. Asking her if she'd like to meet is just throwing away all the incredibly hard and painful work I've done in going nc. She can ask me if I want to meet her if if and when she wants to do that. Then I can decide if I want to do that. Not the other way round for once. She's being manipulative in my opinion. Pressing all my buttons without putting any of herself on the line.

You are welcome, hope my bitter experience helps you in your choices.


Exactly like my ex used to do. Since the breakup (13 months), she never opened up for ANY emotions whatsoever. Me on the other hand spilled my guts on several occasions. Each time empowered her, and making myself feel worse about myself. Last time, without any reciprocation from her side, was 6 months ago (NC since then!  *) ).

To this date I still have absolutely NO idea about how she felt about the whole deal. The most I got her to say at some point was "you know me, I am not made of stone". If one party continues to poor out emotions, and the other knows exactly how they feel, it is safe to hide their own emotions, and that way make an advantage.

A game is exactly what this is. The only way you can refuse to play, is leaving her alone. But, eventually you will have to play games with another girl anyway (dating games  :) ). Love is unfortunately a game (until in a mature relationship).

Hi Everyone,

Just to update you on the letter.

I have not replied.  I don't think she was actively trying to reconcile the situation or get back together at this stage.  It was about control and keeping me on her string.  Probably designed to make me fold and beg her.  I am still undecided but realise I need much stronger boundaries to have any chance of making this work so she would have to make way more effort to reconnect.  Her actions were deplorable.  Still obsessing about her getting in touch.  Like a boat just drifting.  But Thanks to all your responses I have not replied, erring on the side of caution and finding a bit of strength.  So Thanks.  I have been back to this post 100 times and its amazing. 

The holiday was stressful (good in parts).  However, I drank way way too much.  This was not good for anxiety PTSD ruminations.  In fact terrible.  So going all out for a Month on the wagon.  I'll let you know how I get on.