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I could sense the irritation for days.  Heck, last night she was upset because I was not feeling well!  Anyway, today she was out all morning, I thought I could barely stand anymore.  I went to an al-anon meeting, and vowed to take care of me this weekend.  She started in on me about 2:30.  Sitting on the couch she remarked "I hate it here. I want to move someplace." 

Egad.  My mind raced for how to validate that.  Too late.  "Uggh!  You are just going to ignore me!"  Then a bunch more stuff with an elevated voice.  My response.  "I'm not ignoring you, I'm thinking".  Oops, a JADE slipped out.  "Yeah, you are thinking about the roof!"  (yes, the roof which has a hole in it and needs repair ASAP)

At that point, I just got up and went outside.  I just don't have the strength to validate that mess.  She came out 5 minutes later, started screaming, calling me childish for running away from her.  I told her that I am not running away from her, I'm just enforcing my boundaries that include sarcasm, cursing, and screaming.   She then ramped up the screaming, said "F you!" a few times.  I told her I won't be present for verbal abuse, walked out, started my car, and left without saying more.

I drove about a mile away, and my car broke down.  I spent the next 2 hours repairing my car, just walking around, visiting stores, and "cooling off" in the sweltering heat. 

And no text messages or calls from her?  Maybe I did the right thing here.  Just left before it got real ugly?  About 2 hours later, I texted her to say my car was broke, and that I wasn't sure when I would be home, and apologized for leaving.  The apology probably wasn't warranted, but I'm disappointed she did not apologize in return.

SHe went to an AA meeting, then to a movie with a friend.  A free night.  I need it.  Badly.  I'm thinking of staying somewhere else tonight.  I'm just too defeated.  I'm also considering calling the whole relationship off.  This feels like the straw that broke the camel's back.  In any event, monday is counseling.  No more trying to wade through her self loathing distress.  When the counselor asks how are things, I will say "I think we have a big problem - verbal abuse."  Then the poo can hit the fan. 

Good for you on enforcing your boundary. You may have not handled the situation exactly the way you wanted to but you took care of you. I know it is difficult to do this when you are not feeling well. How are things today.

Well, she came home last night and chose to sleep on the couch.  Emotionally, I don't know if that is good or bad, but rationally, I think that was good.  I awoke this morning to tremendous anxiety.  I feel like my heart is racing. 

What is your plan to take care of you today?  Would perhaps going for walk or something help disperse the anxiety?

you did the right thing leaving her and taking off. It feels scary but it is the right thing .

What is unfair is that the emotional volatility allows her to calm down sometimes quicker than you are able  

Hang in there - you will look back in time and find this the day you found the resolve to change the usual game and it was a turning point for the better  .

A0 - thanks.  Yeah, I have no doubt i did the right thing.  But this was too long coming.  I felt I had no other choice.  Hopefully this is a change for the better - in me.  I can't guarantee how she will react, but for me to actually stand up and say "no more verbal abuse" and leave was huge. 

I went for a walk this morning.  It helped.  I brought her back a coffee, and she did thank me for it.

Hi maxsterling,

it is not the saying - it is the doing which is in this case taking a break which makes a difference. And you do have a choice although only a little one - take a time-out a little bit earlier not when you have no other option. I know it is easy to wait until one has no choice - but that is in some sense avoiding taking responsibility to protect ourselves.

The time-out was a good idea - so was bringing the coffee  :)

Please in mind in the near future that with boundaries consistency is vital otherwise you are getting intermittent re-enforcement which makes setting new boundaries even more difficult.

Max,

I continue to be amazed at the similarities between people on this board.  For a long time there were roof issues at my house... . and that was something that uBPDw would rant and rave about.  If I would ask her about it though... . the ranting and raving... . she blamed me for listening.  She said she was just venting... it wasn't directed at me... . and it was my fault for listening.

Now... . think about that for a bit.  I actually think that is wise advice... . and it's the same advice that you took.  You made it "your fault" that you didn't hear it.  Good for you!  OBTW... . I don't think my uBPDw had thought it through we she said this... . I think it was more of a blame me for everything... . so I get blamed for her cussing.  But... . sometimes if you weed through the stuff that comes out of their mouths... . there is wisdom there to be acted on.

And... . I agree with AO... . good job on the coffee.  I normally would bring a glass of water... . maybe a cookie... . some gesture to "test the water".

Now... . here is my take on the situation and what you are thinking... . and what she is thinking.  For you... . this is a fresh wound... (it always was for me)... . for her... . I would be she puts in in the ancient history category. 

When you "radically accept" that as true... . it brings "self care" into an entirely different focus.  She is not going to have the presence of mind to realize that she has done something horrible and should "make up for it".  You... . being a non... . would expect a "normal" person to realize the pain they have caused... . and do something about it.  But... . alas... . that is where the two worlds collide.

Hang in there man.  I think you did great!

Well, she started off on me agin, so i left again.  She screamed and threatened as i left, and slammed doors.

From her continued dysregulated response to you it sounds like your initial leaving has surprised her. Well done for continuing to reinforce your boundary to not tolerate the abuse and leave again. I don't know what will happen now maxsterling, but what I do know is that you are taking care of yourself. |iiii

Most likely it will get worse for the next few episodes.  Then... . I suspect... . when she realizes that it doesn't work anymore... . she will act like it is no big deal.

But ultimately... . who knows.  The important thing is a boundary has been set... . even more important... . don't back down.  Stick with it.

I had an opportunity to sleep at a friend's house tonight.  I declined, worried about the cat (she's been abusive to the cat, too).  She came home, I offered to sleep on the couch.  She said that was a good idea because she was still angry.  Her angry?  Oh yeah, she has BPD.  Emotions do not always correlate with events.  Anyway.  Should be an okay night - it's a big and comfortable sofa :)

In other news.  My brother apparently walked out on his BPD wife tonight, took the car, and said "you deal with it."  After 10 years and no therapy, he had enough.

I bet i get good sleep on this sofa.   Better than listen to her huff andd puff all night long.

 |iiii It really sounds like you are doing better, even if her response is still mixed!


OTOH... . If you leave when the verbal abuse starts... . it becomes much less of a big problem!

Consistent enforcement of boundaries does wonders, keep at it!

Hey... . the following comments are more based on my personality... . than any advice.

I got really hung up on not leaving the bedroom or the bed.  Granted... . i use a cpap and have some other sleep issues when make me being the one that leaves the bed much harder.

After a while of me ignoring her she started leaving.  NEVER did I suggest she should go.  I would always try to say things like "lets lay down and calmly drift off to sleep" (never suggesting she should calm down)... .

Anyway... not at all saying you did anything wrong... . I would just be careful about her moods influencing where you sleep.  Remember... . for them it's about control. 

Hang in there... . and good job on not tolerating the abuse.

I actually enjoyed it on the sofa.  I easily gave up the bed - 1) no argument from her 2) I wake up before her, so I don't have to worry about waking her up as I get ready for work.  I truly love this woman and hope things settle, but the me time and peace and quiet the past few days after me walking away from the abuse has been sorely needed.

I'm still mulling over her last night saying she is still "angry" in relation to what I know about BPD.  The anger emotion was clearly there ever before I became "at fault".  So at some point the anger will wane.  The anger really has nothing to do with anything I said or did, even though she claims it to be.  I suppose I could have tried validating better when she made the statement about moving - but is was really a trap statement/question and no matter how I responded I was probably doomed.  Hindsight  - could have said, "yeah, I know it's not perfect here.  Is there something specific that has you down today?"

Good to hear that you slept well. Good sleep is an important foundation to deal with stress.


Keep in mind that this event in another marriage close to you may trigger abandonment in your wife.

Way to go max... . sounds like you did everything right... I know what you mean about sometimes there is just no validating a conversation... soon as the words are uttered you know its a lose lose situation... Walking away or telling her I am taking a time out to let things cool seemed to floor her the first few times I started it a few weeks ago... . now she does try to start the negative spark close to bedtime... . also thanks formflier for the advise... I am also on cpap and I like the idea of just suggesting lets lay down and calmly go to sleep... . Not only hard for me to get good nights sleep if I leave the bed I really really hate not sleeping together... . Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:... . not to mention just stinks not being able to cuddle lol

I'm at work today, kinda anxious over the counseling session this afternoon.  I'm actually scared over her possibly laying into me AGAIN. I'm just not sure I have the strength.  I think I may suggest to her taking separate cars to the counseling session.  And if things get heated in the session, I may suggest she find someplace else to stay for a few days.  I literally feel physical pain over this - like I have been stabbed.  I'm still glad I stood up against the abuse, because I know that had I not I would feel much worse down the road.  And that's the long and short of it - I can do my part to work on the relationship, but abuse breaks the contract.  I just can't work with that. 

And to top it all off, my brother and his BPD wife are going through the same stuff.  My brother finally just had enough and I think wants out.  He needs to see a therapist bad, because 10 years of abuse and he is spiraling downward.  And I am hearing about it all.

We've been doing separate cars for a while.  I would suggest not making a big deal of it.

I didn't... . I just came up with reasons... and made sure I had a reason.

They have come in handy.

Anyway... . sometimes if you say hey... . I'm going to do this... . just in case you do this... . it puts something in their head that shouldn't be there.

Well, tonight is couples T.   Don't know how that will go, but I do have tons of anxiety.  I'm back to being somewhat undecided about this r/s.  I want to try, but right now I am having a hard time finding any positives left.  I could very well be on the "leaving" board by tomorrow morning.

I hope couples T goes well for you and I hope you find some peace making decisions about the future of your relationship. 

has an open ended question been posed to her in couples T... . something along the lines of ... . what do you think you can do to improve the r/s

Wow that was surreal.

Sat in T office, GF didn't want to talk.  I mentioned that I have upset her, don't understand it, she yelled, and I left.  GF then went on and on for over an hour about how me leaving when she curses and rages is me trying to control her.  She went on and on about how I am not perfect and need to look at myself (ironic - HER telling ME that HER problem is ME not looking at myself?) 

Anyway, she went on and on about how she gets angry and normal relationships have cursing and raging and if I cant take it that means I need to have a backbone to be with someone like her.  !  And T tended to agree? 

I'm trying to understand... .

So... the T didn't want to teach about time outs?  Please explain more about the T tending to agree.

Unless you think the T understands BPD... . and is saying... this is who she is... . if you are going to be with her you better get a backbone.  (maybe?)

Hmm...

Hang in there... .

Formflier - well that is what I had to conclude myself - that the T was trying to tell me that GF is saying she's just gonna rage and that is who she is, and that she has needs and if I can't meet her needs... . blah, I don't know where I was going with that.   What I mean to say is that at times it felt like the T was encouraging me to stand up for myself. 

But the session was an hour of basically abuse 101 - GF using the sarcasm, raised vice, projection, and threats, right in the session.  I was just a little shocked the T didn't step in and say - hey - obviously he is hurt by that,  what can you do differently to help the situation? 

I just can't imagine the T sat there and didn't think "wow, she is out of control, this guy needs help."  I've heard stories on here of other Ts taking a client aside to say, "you are being abused, get out."

Or maybe the T was scared herself?

BTW, GF even brought up how I am reading "Loving someone with BPD" as proof that I am selfish and not wanting to examine myself... . !  Good God I guess the pwBPD has no idea how much we try and try to examine ourselves and our behavior in order to make the situations better.

As for the timeouts - yea, I get why she is triggered.  I did my best to express that I *have* to leave to protect myself.  T said that timeouts are okay but should be discussed beforehand, and that after a timeout we should talk about what happened.  Dang, I was too fearful of the rage to want to approach the subject again.  At one point GF said she is triggered by people walking out on her because when she was younger her family would walk out on her when she raged and would not talk to her for a few days.  Quite telling.  She admits she raged, she admits she has relationship issues and anger issues, but can't seem to understand that other people are reacting to her behavior by enforcing their own boundaries?

I hear that often after me and my wife argue, that I don't get angry enough. But why is it OK for them to demand we change for them when they don't change themselves? And why would one prefer to be yelled at instead of having a discussion?

Wow. I'm flabbergasted.

I'd be DONE with that T if I were in your shoes.

Not standing around to be raged at or verbally abused is the BEST thing I ever did, and if a T "agreed" that it was being controlling by doing that, I'd be soo out of there!

I'd simply say that the pre-discussion is that if you are feeling verbally abused, you will take a time out. End of statement. Discussion after is OK, but if the "discussion" feels like verbal abuse to you, there will be another timeout. Immediately.

I do agree with one thing though. You absolutely need to have a backbone to be in this sort of r/s!

The point I picked up is that your GF thinks ALL relationships contain that degree of raging ad anger, that is "normal."

OK, so... . no. That is not normal in a loving, respectful relationship.

max... .been through a session like that myself... T would say let her do what she wants to do... if she wants to rage... scream... .throw things... .hit walls... bang head on walls... hid in closets and yell and curse... let her do it... Its my problem if I cant take it... and of course I have gotten the grow a backbone(and also other colorful words) about the relationship and how weak I am... shortly after that the T mentioned suicide thoughts and my BPDw ran and never went back again ...

This is EXACTLY why I do not support couples counseling. What I wanted was validation from my T and for him to tell my BPDgf that she was off her rocker and to get real  lol  That never happened as I am very sure he was afraid of her.


This is one of my favorite things that my gf likes to drive me crazy with. We have had this discussion several times and I wish I could have it again now. I never did validate it before, but I never had a good come back for it. I would tell her now that a RS is about respect and screaming at someone is not respectful. Period. Then if she started screaming I would walk away 

My friend (backup T) thinks that my gf does this because she equates rage with love. My gf used to tell me about crazy fights with her exNPDbf. Once they got into it and he said something about the clothes he had bought her. So she took them all off and walked out of his office and through his business in front of all his customers and employees in her underwear  lol  Of course this led to a major public rage of which I'm sure she felt a lot of love.

Very sick and I refuse to participate. I will calmly walk away with my dignity and will be the bigger person. You are NOT controlling her by walking away. Total BS. Protect yourself at all costs. This is your backbone and she is trying to manipulate you into abandoning it. Don't fall for it. Push through the extinction bursts and you know it will get better. Then she will just say that you don't love her anymore because now you have a "backbone". Don't listen to the crazy. Listen to the tools because they work.