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My ex GF, an alcoholic Borderline, used the last few tirades to remind me that she was "moving on".

She lied to me about being within someone else. It was not until I caught her driving in a car with the guy that I knew she was seeing someone else.

What turned this whole situation into a Penthouse Forum letter was that this guy's daughter was a young lady that I was having a fling with at the same time! Yes, I live in too small a town. So the daughter told me that she was pretty sure that my ex was with her father during the last months of our nightmare relationship.

OK. That hurts. But I found out that every doubt I had about her WAS SPOT ON! She did lie. I did know it. I should never question my instincts... .which are 98% spot on with important things.

Before I removed myself from the whole thing, I found out this guy, aka Professor Superman, is nothing more than your Wal-Mart generic brand alcoholic who has an MO of finding drunk, uneducated, weak women and using them for 6 months to a year.

The evidence I have suggests he feeds her beer, they screw and do very little else. He is a Ph. D and she is not terribly intellectual. This guy's two daughters, and I only dated one, both have told him that they will not accept my ex and will not do things with him when she is around. He is getting drunk and laid from a sick, needy woman. He will hold on to her for a little while longer.

Of course, there could be more to the story. Maybe they are really happy, quit drinking, smile and make kissy faces all day and plan to backpack Europe together.

Not likely.

And even if Professor Superman gives her life-altering orgasms in bed and her smile is like chiseled granite on her face, it still does not matter. She is a violent drunk with a severe case of Borderline. This guy is her new crutch... .and his track record says when filling her up with beer and mounting her is no longer worth her tirades, he will dump her.

She did not move on or move up. She is in the same morass she has been in since long before I came along.

And I am out of it. Yes, I have bad days---I cried uncontrollably this morning. But these are my issues with myself about the end of a relationship with a woman that was nothing more than a life-sucking cancer. I have a ways to go. But I do take satisfaction knowing that her new "savior" is really nothing more than another enabler with a resume of abusing women who feeds her beer that is killing her.

My anger is my torch. And it is lighting the way to freedom.

Hey Chief,

Mine also downsized in the replacement, picking a man just old enough to be her dad, with a roaming lifestyle of immaturity and a poor education.

Our lifestyle was more than comfortable. Nice house, money, fancy cars and vacations, all the toys you could want... .It's not about those things for them. It's about attachment, idealisation control, protecting themselves.

We are mere trinkets, to them. But we must remember we are worth more than one person.

My wife was married to a guy that was 15 years older for 27 years, sounds like he was a wuss. Where as we were only married 6 monrhs. I think the reason it only lasted 6 months is because I didnt play her games  !

Our exes find someone who they can mirror and idealize.  It makes no sense to compare.  If they trade down, does that mean that we were lacking in comparison to the partners who came before us? 

It's hard not to compare.  Especially because we become convinced by the Disorder that if somehow we were better then things would be ok.  The Disorder tells us that we were lacking.  So we naturally look at comparison, if the others were younger/older, richer/poorer, kinder/more abusive, ... .it goes on forever, and it's a symptom of the my FOO issues that were there before my ex.

Let go of the comparisons.  It's irrelevant to our recovery.

When I saw the women in pictures or on the Internet that he was involved with besides me, I was shocked. I had this feeling that oh, my, she must be smarter,  prettier,  charming,  more educated... .NOT! No on all counts... .they looked like loose, trashy barflies. I think that hurt worse.  You gave me up for THAT? I kept staring and saying why, why... .it was a punch in the gut to my self-worth that physically ached like an ulcer for a long time.

Topknot I think the "more" we are the harder for them.  They are happier with someone needier than they are, someone they can control more easily.  I saw my ex flirting with another woman at a bar once during our first break up.  I was like are you serious?  Your description; Barfly.  I've realized that everything about me threatened him; my job, my friends, my house, my income, my car, my independence... .all of it.  He never believed I stay with him. 

i identify with this a lot. in my case i thought the guy she started seeing within weeks of ending our r/s was like billy d. williams mixed with brad pitt, the way she portrayed him. i was forced to meet this guy (he helped her move out a few weeks later)--so glad i did. i mean, i was still traumatized from the r/s, but seeing that all she could find after me wasn't someone i considered "on my level" (confidence/independance/looks/financially/talent/etc) did help months later to clear my mind of feeling guilty for inadequacies in the r/s.

i do have to warn though, that i feel like i was just lucky in a sense. and i don't devalue the guy(s) she sees. i was one of them. but i was just fortunate to see the truth of the guy immediately after me. we have to be careful before going too far here, because of course everyone on this board actually *is* the other guy/gal, the replacement, for a while in the pwBPD trail of sorrow :-P but never forget that pwBPD idealize and try and convince you that you are the best thing on earth to strengthen their attachment. i'm sure the guy after me thought of himself as her "soul mate" even though they only lasted 4 months.

if my ex had me going for so long then she can eventually find someone else "on my level" and do the same. they're survivors. just in my case she wasn't so fortunate, and was in too much of a damn hurry to try and embarrass me whilst forming a new bond to care too much about the quality of the man. if you can find real evidence that this other person just wasn't up to par, then cool. but if not it's possible that you/we can also be perceived as not 'on the level' to others.

Is it not that they downgrade (as we look at it) in order to feel safe, secure? I was aware that my ex likes the seedier side of life, after all that's where she came from (sound bitter don't I). I have no idea who mine is with but am sure she won't be pushing above her weight, mainly due to the fact she can get what she wishes easier from someone who is below her standards, a quick fix, while she sorts through other options.

Or she will state she is "single" but have a couple of FWB's in tow, that way be unbeholden to anyone, be in total control and get her support/sex/suppers etc.

I read a post last night stating that to explain the present/future we need to look into the past, how was our relationship with them early doors? As this will explain how it'll be with the new boy/boys.

I was offered FWB as she didn't wish for a relationship, so I explained to her it was a relationship or nothing, told her she was rude to even suggest a FWB option (fine if I was 18 but not aged 42!)

You can treat them like queens, they'll take it all, holidays, presents etc etc, it gives them something to talk about with their friends but in reality it doesn't mean anything to them, all taken for granted and expected.

It is almost comforting/re assuring to know that some poor chap will be about to go through the same thing I went/am going through and all the ones before too.

I know she relocated from all her family/home/job etc due to some trouble before (she played the victim when asked re reasons) and stated that her longest relationship was circa 2 years (I cannot believe that) but yes i feel she will downgrade to a more easily shaped object for her to play with, instant support while searching for a more suitable victim.

I too can identify with the above. She ditched me for a stoner without a job who scrapes together some sort of living by selling what he grows. Unlike some here I feel less hurt by that than I would had she found a go getter with a big house and millions in the bank. I'm glad that she's crawling in dirt and I hope she stays there.

I'm pleased that she replaced me with someone a lot older than her, with less education, with less status and with a laughable lifestyle and life choices. It makes it easier to see that actually, there is nothing wrong with ME, it's her. She makes choices based on who the heck knows what! Or, most likely, whatever trinket catches her eye when she is 'available'

Most of us have a type, be it physical, emotional, status, whatever... .I look at me, the replacement, the one before me and the one before that. We all have only ONE thing in common; we came in to her life when she was just out of a relationship and we all had a position of authority/perceived authority relative to her at that time. One of us was a boss, one was a sports coach, one was an instructor and so was another! All were quickly idealised and all ended up being totally devalued ( apart from my replacement. The unusual circumstances there mean it will last longer... .)

I'd have found it harder of she replaced me with a younger, better looking , wealthy man. Then I'd question whether I'd 'failed' .

As it is, I didn't fail, despite her best attempts to convince me otherwise ( and she almost did ). She failed, the disorder won.

I am college educated and am highly intelligent. My ex is not.

So, yes, I must admit that when I heard she was with Professor Superman, it hurt me. I offered for us to move in together for years and she always said no. She was never materialistic---but she did stay with her husband because he paid the bills.

And what got me is that she always said I talked down to her. She said she felt small and dumb around me because I was smart.

And she is now with a Ph. D? Whaaaaaa?

Then I got info in this guy. Smug. Pushed around weak women. Likes to drink every day. Volatile. Great! My ex is a Borderline and an alcoholic and she just hooked up with a guy that will feed her weaknesses.

I did compare. Now I do not. Because I know who she is and I am fairly certain she is enabled by an abuser.

I am better than both of them combined and I take pleasure knowing they are most likely in a drunken, miserable existence with each other.

I wouldn't waste any of my precious time worrying about whether my exBPDgf upgraded or downgraded, in the end it doesn't matter.  They are gone regardless.  I also caught my exBPDgf lying about seeing someone else when I saw her with another guy about two blocks from my house.  I ignored her from that point forward. There was no point in worrying about what she had done after that, if she didn't care why should I.  My healing process started that day, and I have to say it was the beginning of a new me from that point forward, and now I am grateful that she is gone because I don't need someone around me who's going to lie and cheat.  Life is too short for that.  If she upgraded or downgraded who cares, in the end she didn't care about anyone's feelings but her own.  So why bother caring about her from that point forward.  You're healing process should start now, and believe me from personal experience you'll be glad you bit the bullet.

This is very good.  Congrats on your movement toward recovery and detachment. 

Ive come to the conclusion that Id better go get checked for std's. Shes a cheat and proably  always has been.

Mine most likely has a lifetime STD and she doesn't even bother to get checked or warn her new supplies about the possibility, so be very careful.

Thank you for the interesting responses.

Comparisons are not so easily controlled. All humans judge and compare. It is just a normal brain function.

The reason I started this thread was to tell everyone that I was getting past such pedantic worries.

In other words:

It is not my fault.


Professor Superman is a bad guy; but even if he was the best guy who ever lived, SHE is the same. And that means that I do not have to feel bad. She did not move on or move up. She moved sideways.

And when I am done grieving, her being with him will be the best thing for my future happiness.

remember why they finish a relationship; it's because the level of intimacy has risen to a high enough level where the risk to them of you leaving, and the pain it will cause them is too high, so they leave you before you leave (abandon) them.

remember why they start a new relationship; because they are chronically unhappy and need someone, a distraction, to take their mind of their own misery.

so, basically, almost anyone will do. the new person is someone who is safe, precisely because the level of intimacy is low. and because they can't be alone for long, they'll attach themselves to anyone who will have them. education, intelligence, age, sex, are all irrelevant. the only requirement is that the new target will spend more and more time with them, and gradually give in to their every want and desire, which includes the willingness to back down and take responsibility for being the cause of her unhappiness. 

when you have done everything possible to please her, and she finds that she is still unhappy, you get dropped, because you aren't doing it for her, or because she can't take the risk of being abandoned by you.

and so it happens. it ends dramatically, of course. and often, there is another person waiting in the wings, ready to step into your shoes. the crazy thing is that his day will come too, and he'll feel just like you when it happens. confused, dazed, exhausted, and bewildered.

and then she'll do it again... .

it isn't about you, and it never was. and it isn't about your replacement. it's the disorder.

b2

We should have a page of wisdom where posts like this are stored and promoted for every new member to read. This is golden.

Something you guys should know about my case:

I usually leave her. I nearly always break it off.

The whole post was remarkable, but this quote is important.

I took it personally when I found out she was not only with Professor Superman, but that she was smug about "moving on".

But he works with her. He is predatory when it comes to finding weak, drunk women like her. She had no chance to escape him given her problems.

I need to heal from the personal betrayal I feel. But yes, I now know that I was doomed but a horrific mental disorder that kills anyone that gets in its way.

And yes, knowing she is not in an improved situation helps me to regain self esteem.

My ex once told me that if he were to move on, he'd deliberately pick a woman who was less intelligent than I was. He also made it clear that she had to be less educated.

During his last attempt at a relationship, he lied about being sole owner of our house (I own it as well), did the deed with her in my bed (despite my asking him not to, and to just respect the personal property I had at the house after the separation), then lied to her about my education level and career to boot!

His new "replacement" is exactly as he had hoped for. Not too bright, or well educated, younger than both of us, and in a situation in which she is a perpetual caregiver to members of her family.

He's painted me out to be the raving, psycho xw every man loves to hate. Apparently, she hates me as well. I don't blame her, knowing how well he can play the victim when it suits him.

In his mind, he's moved up because she's "fresh meat" and that much easier to control. She's a new supply, and like a drug addict, I'm not much more to him than an empty bag of drugs. Licked clean and worth nothing now that it's empty. So I'm no worth much, just toss me aside and get his next fix.

That realization is painful, but when I think of what that poor girl has on the horizon, and what my kid will have to endure, it feels like little more than a paper cut in comparison.

whatever he said, whether it was true or false, was designed to inflict pain. that is what they do. hurt people hurt others. borderlines intentionally hurt the ones they are intimate with... .it is screwed up... .but the only real evidence of their love is how badly they treat you at the end... .if they were not intimate with you then you would not see the real them... .just the mask they wear to suck you in.

and once you have been painted black you will be devalued completely. until one day when he wakes up and isn't getting what he needs from someone else, and so he might try you.

You are lucky in a way because you know the truth about him, and you didn't waste your entire life with a hopeless cause like him.

you had a lucky escape, hard as it might be to believe... .

b2

I ask myself if it would help me move on if Professor Superman was a great guy loved by all who made my ex a better person.

As it was so deftly put by my best friend yesterday:

"Impossible scenario. No one can change her. If you jump in a lake you get wet. You can't change that and no one can change her."

Similar story here. We had two homes, a few choice vehicles, and were shopping for a boat (glad I didn't buy that!). She was in med school. Dropped it all for a 300+lb stoner who grew weed and sold roofies. It's hardly believable to this day. Her family hasn't spoken with her in a few years now and I am on great terms with them. It's tough but I redeemed myself in positive ways.

Meh, can't say I'm a prize myself. I think the thing I had going for me was that as things progressed, and got worse I forced myself to become more assertive. It's how I'm here now, it's how I called 911 on her.

One guy she cheated with was a narcissistic "nice guy" who lamented why women didn't like him even though he was nice. He wasn't a looker, at all. Be nice all you want. She banged him, but admitted he could barely get it up. A lie? Maybe. Who cares at this point. But I like to think a guy like him, after all the BS and phony nice-guy act is just the sort of guy who can't perform where it counts. You know what I mean?

Am I better? Nah. I barely have any money and I'm not too ambitious about jobs (I do wanna be a personal trainer though.)

Every other guy wasn't particularly good looking, and I think one was a Juggalo (this one was more flirting on the phone. Lived too far.)

Is she going to upgrade after me? Probably not. But was I really that much better than the other guys? In some ways yes, in other ways no. I rarely spent money on her, I wasn't mr. gift-giver or pays-for-dinner. There's probably some dude that will provide her with *things.* I have a hunch that's the next sort of guy she'll go for. He'll later complain about how he spent so much money on her, how all that money and hard work and *still* she treated him like crap. Oh well.

Household income, many times average

Nice house

Three cars (minivan , pickup and German sportscar)

One motorcycle

Three dogs

4-6 vacations a year, abroad

Lots of other toys... .

All traded for an uneducated, virtually itinerant worker, old enough to be her father. They don't trade up or down, I guess, they just attach to the next available shiny thing that catches their eye.

I tried to analyse it. Wasted valuable time doing so, don't bother!

Catching up on my thread.

I certainly am not a gutter rat; but Professor Superman is her dream come true. He was not some redneck with a limited education.

Most of you post about how the replacement was a definitive step down. I am a damn good man and unlike new guy, I tried to STOP her from drinking. But outside of his obvious MO of abusing weak women, he would be considered by some unbiased eyes to be a step up from me.

That bothers me.

You're spending too much time devaluing Professor Superman.

Maybe you should take a look at this thread:

bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=224178.msg12424383#msg12424383

Not an easy thing to deal with. But why are you still so concerned? I mean, he's a user, but she's a manipulator too. She's been doing it her whole life. Something tells me Superman is gonna find himself in a vulnerable position. If not its still not worth your time. Perhaps people like him are the only sort of folks that can "handle" someone like her. Match made in hell, yes?

I'll tell you what my t told me, that you can only look forward.

Wishing you the best.

Just the opposite. I have thought that he was Superman and I was left because I was inadequate. That she moved on and was better off without me.

She is not better. His Ph. D does not make her better. They are drunks who will soon hurt each other viciously---and I take glee in that knowledge.

chiefsalsa, the fact that you can admit that this bothers you is a good thing. it does take courage to admit you have a little jealousy concerning the situation. our jealousy occurs to indicate to ourselves areas that we may want to improve upon.

so, while i think you are looking at this situation better--that this guy isn't the answer to her problems, that their r/s will fail inevitably. perhaps this could inspire you to take on some intellectual pursuits, pursue some educational or career goals. not at all because you want to be like Professor Superman or be in his position, just recognizing that you had these triggers and it may indicate areas you have control over improving (if you so please).

i also noticed you seem judgmental about how Prof Superman "uses" women who are "weak". and while of course this isn't behavior you would want for yourself, there is something to be said about boundaries and control here--although he may be abusive in this situation he seems much less like he is being victimized by her. it may be indicative that in future relationships perhaps we can adopt more of a policy of ensuring our needs are met and have stronger boundaries, rather than taking the 'savior' route, trying to get someone to stop drinking, only to realize they are attracted to people who encourage it.

you are spot on that this guy isn't better than you and that he's not better for her. i also think you can evaluate what was triggering you about their r/s, revealing some areas perhaps for self improvement completely separate from your past with her.

Goldy,

Profound words. Thank you.

I am educated. I'm highly intelligent. She used to say that she felt stupid around me. She'd say she wasn't smart enough to be around me. And this guy is a scientist-mathematician! It makes no sense to me.

This is my trigger. This is the albatross that keeps me from moving on. The NC is good with me. The lying and alcoholism make it easy to move on. And I have put her verbal and physical abuse into perspective. I have dealt with it.

But if I'm too be honest with myself and all of you, as a means to heal, I have to admit it: The fact that she's with a man that is 5 rungs above her intellect... .and feeds her worst addictions, ferments in my brain.

He's a bad guy.

I know I shouldn't care. I know it doesn't matter. Tell my brain that. Tell that to me when out of nowhere I have a crying spell.

I don't devalue Professor Superman. I done elevate him either. I'm just pissed he exists. And I'm pissed that I'm pissed about it.

he may be more book smart than her. but regardless if he can solve quadratic equations, they are on the *same* level of emotional intelligence. this guy has degrees, is a professor, yet only has the balls to attract women who he *thinks* are weak and easily controlled? hmmm, maybe because he's so weak himself he can't hack being with a strong woman? she is grown. she's probably aware of this already on an emotional level, and she's getting something out of the exchange i guarantee it.

it's important to not perpetuate the idea that she is a continual victim in life. this is the story she sells. she's a grown woman and she's probably more emotionally aware of what she's doing than you may be giving her credit for. pwBPD don't stick around with people when their needs aren't being met. so what may appear to you as him feeding her addictions could just as well be seen as her meeting her immediate desires.



All of what you say is understandable. And chiefsalsa when i say that it's courageous that you are able to admit these things to yourself and others, i'm not just blowing smoke up your butt. seriously, letting this out and coming to terms with it takes a lot of courage. now that this is out you can examine the emotion and the feelings behind it. just by facing these uncomfortable feelings your awareness is expanding so you are able to analyze yourself with more objectivity. deserving of applause :-)

and on the same train of thought of expanded awareness, now that we have this we can start to question *why* you are pissed he exists. perhaps it's that you held the love you gave in high regard. believing that your behavior and treatment of your ex was "better" in a sense. both morally and for her well being. and now this guy comes in with party tricks and forces you to question this assumption. that would piss me off too.

i can't say for sure why this makes you angry, but you now have a solid foundation set to figure this out for yourself. wishing you the best chiefsalsa.

Goldy,

Regarding this:

and on the same train of thought of expanded awareness, now that we have this we can start to question *why* you are pissed he exists. perhaps it's that you held the love you gave in high regard. believing that your behavior and treatment of your ex was "better" in a sense. both morally and for her well being. and now this guy comes in with party tricks and forces you to question this assumption. that would piss me off too.

Yes! I put in 7 years of work. I was there for every hellish episode. I took the 3 AM phone calls. I pulled her out the bars when her face was flat drunk in a plate of nachos. I went to court when she decided to file fake police reports. I forgave her.

I do not want her back. I really do not. But for this guy, who works in her building, to come along and be the guy who feeds her booze... .and he is Superman? Yeah, you are god damned right it pisses me off!

I did what I did because I loved her. And she smugly told me she "moved on" the last two times she broke NC. I was resolute not to get sucked in--and thankfully I was not. But for her to think that she somehow is a better person because she lets a PhD mount her after a 6 pack of cheap beer is so audacious that I cannot ignore it. She is not a better person, she just gets drunk and screwed by a PhD.

I am better. But then some hours I am not. I think of her as nothing more than a lying, drunk, piggish whore. But that rage is not just targeted at her, but more potently, inward.

She has not moved on, or up. She is headed for a hideous end---maybe another stay in the psych ward---or worse. And I refuse to apologize for taking glee in that knowledge. My anger is my torch that leads me out of her black hole of cancerous, rotting death.

Wow. Just... .wow. Poetic, if not slightly dripping with venom!

But yeah, I get it. I feel the same way when the anger gets to me.

He always told me that he hated less educated women, then he deliberately goes out and gets one with some technical degree (please don't hate me, I'm a PhD student, actually!), and goes on and on about how she's younger and firmer and never had kids ... .

This in and of itself doesn't make me get angry, because I know this poor girl is in for the emotional rollercoaster ride of her life with him, and I do legitimately feel sorry for her, but watching him mirror her is infuriating!

Suddenly, all these "mature, sophisticated, responsible" things I had an interest in that he used to enjoy (at least in the early stages) are now replaced with new hobbies and ideas and even values. It's like he's a whole new person.

But he reserves his hatred for me. That hasn't changed.

Professor Superman is an idiot. We've got a few in the department that like to drink and get into messed up relationships. Believe me, soon enough, grant season will be here, or he'll have a faculty evaluation coming up, and he'll have to buckle down and ignore her for a couple of weeks. If she's anything like my ex, being ignored for the sake of "books" will drive her absolutely insane.

As for mirroring him, she might be able to keep up with him in a bar or in bed, but we academics are a quirky bunch, and a good part of our lives can only be understood by other academics. She can only mirror so much.

I take similar glee knowing mine is now 'involved with' , to use her term, a man old enough  to be her father, who entertains holidays crowds whilst dressed as elvis, or Sinatra , or puppeteering the night away.  Yep, she settles on a holiday entertainer in his 50s to her 30s... .

If she didn't used to be mine, if I didn't know her intimately, I'd probably find her current situation hilarious. Wastes of space, the pair of them.

Although it is difficult not to compare, I've found it to be an exercise in feeding my shame and maladaptive schema's.  I can get twisted and obsessive... .And in the end it's just a way to avoid the work of my own recovery and digging in deeper to determine why I invited the Disorder into my life.

If our exes trade down from us, what did the people we replace say about us?   And why compare?  I used to think that I was so much better for my ex than her previous boyfriends.  But now I'm just another abusive one.  And whether it's true or not, that's her honest believe.  So how am I better or worse than any of her attachments... .past, present or future?

Moreover, people with health relationships and health breakups don't compare and despise the way us ex-partners on the board do.

I invited the the Disorder into my life due to very specific characteristics including loneliness, lack of self esteem and living through a false sense of self.  Those characteristic also fit the trend of most everyone on this board. I find relief from the suffering and growth and recovey only by focusing on myself.  Closure means denying access to the Disorder into my body, speech and mind.

Feeding the familiar pain of obsessing about my ex, whom I know is not good for me, just feeds the Disorder that still festers in my soul.   My ex will not get better.  My ex will not become an adult emotionally.  My replacement will not be treated any differently.  But he may react differently.  I hope he's better for her than I was, because now I believe that in the long run I probably drove my ex deeper into the Disorder and farther from a chance at happiness.

Tausk,

There is much truth in what you say, however to take it to it's ultimate conclusion, surely we all need to stop even thinking of logging in if we are to be truly 'cured'?

Additionally, whilst we may well be now painted as black as our predecessors, ( and we have to also accept they they too may have been perfectly nice, kind, normal people) and have to accept that we may or may not have been a step 'up' or 'down' from them, it doesn't impact on whether I or anyone else wants to make a comparison between ourselves and any new partner.

Regardless of any lies my uBPDxgf may tell about me or any predecessors , when she lays down with a man old enough to be dad, who lives a life dressing as a bear, or elvis, or with his hands up the ass of Punch and Judy, I know she traded DOWN :)

Chiefsalsa,

I can sympathize. I think I'm in the same place as you. I do not want my ex back, either. I've been carrying on NC well... .haven't looked and I have no idea if she's contacted me. Still, I'm angry, too. All of the BS we were fed, and then they jump ship to the nearest person with the qualities they say they never wanted. On top of it, we are smeared and unappreciated despite our hard work. I'm pissed, too. I still hope she "gets hers." I would never take her back... .and I don't want her back. But I desperately want to believe in karma.

In the end, I want to come out on top. I want to be the happy one, the successful one, the one with great relationships. Still, I'd be lying if I said finding out she failed down the line wouldn't give me a little satisfaction. I don't know if the anger is normal... .but it's there.

The anger... .it's normal. And IMO healthy and even desirable. You need to not even like this person.

I do not have Facebook. But she has a private FB. A friend of mine showed me a few weeks back--when I still "feeding the monster" by gathering information, a page where she "liked" a news story where Professor Superman was talking about how beetles were dying off from climate change.

She is not smart enough to comprehend what was in that column. She was liking that page to show some form of mirroring technique for her "man".

She is not a gushy romantic. She is not big on kisses or I Love Yous. She is not prone to affectionate gestures.

But yet there it was; "liking" an article I KNOWshe did not understand.

Today I walked around campus for exercise. I was able to walk by her building because today was a state holiday in Utah, and so everyone had off. But Professor Superman's truck was there. The temptation to go to his office and talk to him---not as a confrontation, but just to say "hello"---was not strong, but it did make me smile to think about.

I still think they are doomed to end, and badly, very soon. Loading her up with booze and the promise of any type of sex cannot replace stimulating conversation... .which she lacks. But the trick for me is not to care one way or the other. On that point, I am failing miserably.

I am a woman, and I do not have BPD but from all your posts and how you describe your exes and how much better you are, I would NOT date any one of you.  I am sorry but if you had that attitude while dating, I am glad they found someone else.  It has nothing to do with money, education, etc.  Why would you even think that you are better than they are if you make more money, have more education, etc.  It seems like they were merely just objects for you and you might have a few narcissistic  traits of your own.

I am not trying to be mean, I am dealing with a BPD ex as well, but the kind of thinking you have, you might just drive away every other woman you meet in the future.

Good luck!

Unique, you are of course entitled to your opinion but please remember that so are others!

I stand by my own posts. I know who I am and I know who she was representing herself as, I know the life we had and it's one many would love. I certainly don't consider myself better that any of her exes, because actually, I will never know the truth about them. But I do have the low down on my successor and he is a joke.

Whether you would date anyone of us is largely irrelevant.

No offense, but I don't think you get what Overbeck, myself, or others have gone through. I have dated plenty of women where the relationship didn't work out. Some, I am still good friends with today. I've left all of them on good terms and wish them all the best. I'm willing to bet Overbeck has dated women and ended the relationship in a similar way.

However, a breakup with a BPD partner is different. There's betrayal... .the lies... .the sudden loss... .the FOG we've been through... .sometimes for years. We are left angry, bewildered, and at a loss for words. It's not normal, and we were just tools for them. I think the anger is justified.

I personally think you're out of line for the attack on Overbeck. From what I've read, you're still involved with your BPD so you haven't dealt with the awful end of the relationship. Tell me how you feel when it happens. Chances are you're already in the middle of a huge lie and you haven't discovered it yet.

Like I said, I am not trying to blame you.  I have been through a lot with my BPD and yes I am still involved with him, but i have told him what I will and will not tolerate and he knows that I will walk away anytime.  Like you, I would blame myself, my friends would always tell me that I am too good for him and the reason why he is treating me bad is because he knows I am too good for him.  Understand that part of their behavior stems from the fact that they are insecure and have a low self-esteem and even a shred of criticism drives them away.

I say this because I have also dated a man who did not have BPD but again had a very low self esteem and would always try to find some sort of fault with me in order for him to feel good.  I would always cry and I thought that I wasn't good enough.  Yes, I did downgrade after him but I would rather have emotional support and understanding then a guy who can offer me materialistic possessions and cannot understand my feelings.

That said, BPDs are sick.  They are sensitive and sometimes they do things because they believe you think less of them and that you will leave them.  I am sure, in some ways she wanted to hurt you because she thought that you were trying to belittle her or abandon her.  I am not saying she had the right to do what she did, but it takes two to tango.  Nons also act in a way that triggers the BPDs.  We may not understand it because our minds work differently.  Maybe the alcoholic praises her and tells her how smart she is.  Maybe he listens and validates her feelings and you did not do that... .People's needs are different. 

With my BPD, he always thought that what I needed was a house, a nice car, a good job, money, etc. because I have had all that in my life.  He thinks that because he feels insecure around me.  What he does not understand is that all I need is for him to listen to my needs, understand and be able to communicate with me.  Every time I tell him that I am not interested in materialistic possessions, he believes that I am trying to feel sorry for him because he does not have certain things.  It is really difficult for me to make him understand that.  So, for him it is easier to date a girl who has less education, worse car, house, is worse looking etc. so that he feels like that person is dependent on him and will not leave him. 

It is not about you, it is their insecurities and low self-esteem.  I work with kids with special needs.  If one of my children with behavior problems hits me, I am not going to get angry because he has a disorder.  I ignore the behavior and only praise the positive behavior.  Why get angry at a BPD if you know that it is her disorder that is causing the havoc. Don't reinforce her negative behavior, and she might even realize how much she has hurt you.  If not, then it was just a life experience and move on.

I know that you are angry, but letting go of the anger will actually bring you more happiness then

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You did not lock this thread. I set up the next thread in the series.

I suspect that part of this type of thinking comes from mirroring.  During idealization phase, we know what our partners want: us.  We are indeed the perfect version of what they want. Ultimately they push us away, we get split black, then we try to be more of that perfect version of ourselves and consequently just get split blacker.  When they move on, they might move on to someone completely different from us, because of course they weren't looking for a perfect version of "us" after all; they were just looking for a stable self to mirror.  Since we get stuck on the idea that what our partner really wanted was "us," we see the new partner as a lesser version of "us," and thus a trade-down, when it really isn't about up or down at all.  It's just about new.

In my case, my ex and I were not traditionally compatible along lines related to education, socioeconomic status, cultural interests, etc.  In the midst of the relationship I did think "wow, she will never do better than me," and when she found someone new who didn't match me along those parameters, yeah I thought it was a trade down, and I found it very confusing.  But ultimately a) I'm not any better than that guy and as importantly b) I'm not any better than that guy FOR HER.  I am different from him, sure, but there are plenty of women who would prefer what he has to offer ( I don't actually know that much about him) to what I have.  I have a lot going for me but I can be temperamental and condescending and very sensitive.  We all have flaws.  People who truly love us accept us, flaws and all.  PwBPD rarely do.  In this case, though, it really doesn't matter: he's just a different character to mirror.  There is no reason for me to take her choice of partner personally.