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Up until two weeks ago, I was something like semi-detached, and I was feeling pretty good about it.  As a result, though, I think I got comfortable and started to do a pretty half-assed job in my work toward attachment.  As a result, although not initiating, I was allowing contact, and this led to a significant setback about two weeks ago. Since then I have been increasingly strict about contact, although I still have failed to block texts, but in any case have been trying to work harder on fully detaching.

I realized today that the only thing that is keeping me attached at all is this persistent fantasy that one day I could have a real, lasting, committed relationship with this person.  The thing is:

1) I know this could never happen

2) I don't actually want it to happen in my logical mind, because I know that even if it could, we would fight constantly in a nasty manner, I would be belittled, and she would be unfaithful. This has proven the case with her over and over again.

Here's the thing: if this fantasy actually presented itself in real life, I wouldn't accept it.  BUT every now and then the fantasy pops into my head, and I am flooded with emotion, and this is when I have setbacks.

My question is: what does it take to extinguish this type of fantasy?  Knowing that it can't and wouldn't work and that truthfully I wouldn't even try to make it work if I could somehow is still not enough to make it go away.  The emotional hold this person has taken on my life is very strong and completely illogical, and I cannot seem to fight it off.  I'm hoping for others' thoughts on this. 

Thank you. 

I read her fake police reports against me. All 3 of them.

Works every time.

You are asking powerful and insightful questions, BNTS.    I'm going to offer two alternatives for consideration, as I have been considering each.  

First, perhaps we can call the hold "unconscious" rather than "illogical."  The emotional brain is not subject to logic.  And, unlocking the emotional brain [see book called "Unlocking the Emotional Brain"] is a much different exercise than adjusting rational attitudes.   The "imprint" on our emotional being may have come through trauma bonding, projective identification, projection, mirroring, idealization, or a combination of factors.   In some ways, it does not help to ask "why" -- instead, unlocking the emotional brain involves "feeling the emotion" and "rewiring" the neural pathway of emotion.  The book, referenced above, is very clinical -- but the approach, as articulated as "memory reconsolidation" is gaining traction as a way to dissolve emotional imprints.   In my case, I am allowing myself to re-generate the "feeling" of love I had initially my ex-girlfriend -- holding it inside of me as a feeling -- and then consciously recognizing it as part of me, not her, and letting it dissolve emotionally, rather than intellectually.

Second, rather than "extinguishing" perhaps we can call it "re-framing."  Why?  Because extinguishing gives it a power outside of us, as if it's a flame that needs a fire extinguisher.  Re-framing our perspective acknowledges that, like a natural phenomenon, it remains part of us -- but we can learn to live with it.   In practical terms, I have heard it stated as follows:  "A lay person who encounters an uncaged tiger would understandably be triggered to flight, fight or freeze.  However, a tiger trainer would not necessarily face such primal fear because the tiger trainer has trained skillfully to work with tigers."

Just a perspective.   Things that I think about when I am awake at night.   |iiii

Thank you lettinggo. That helped me as well.

Backnthesaddle, I'm going through exactly what you're going through. We have these random moments of thought where we remember the person they portrayed themselves to be.

As for me, it's still hard to fathom that the person I held in such high esteem, thought to be so extremely faithful and great. Turned out to be even lesser than the worst of my exes.

I always have these moments of doubt, and think why can't I be the hero? And why or how could she do such a thing to me? And we think about being with them again, but we know for a very fact, that it can never work. The pain they caused is so very irreversible, especially the cheating and lying.

You are so so right, the fantasy of the whole thing is more alluring than the actual reality of it... . I can give you a real example... . 

I had parted from my ex in October last year... . She moved to a town about an hour away from where I live.  Of course we kept up contact every day,, more meeting each other,  always ending up in bed etc... .

Because we were not living together, it was like the honeymoon on the side again...

We decided to do a camper-van trip together for a month just after Christmas to see if it could work again... . 

Weeeeeell, the very first night she had a meltdown over nothing, suddenly the horrible truth dawned on me... . it had all been a huge mistake,

It ended up the holiday from hell... .We only made love 3 times in the whole month,  but if we were meeting secretly it would be everyday of course...  

So when I moved back into the reality of living together in the campervan, it was a nightmare.

I was so so glad to be home again on my own... . 

But guess what,,  2 weeks later I started  miss her... . Yes I realized I was missing the illusion... . The bad bad times just seem to have less impact with time, and the magnetic draw that she held,, grew stronger,,  

THE FANTASY that she holds for me, got stronger...

I just cant fathom it out...

It defies all logic.  

write a list of all the painful things that happened to you, and all the horrible things that were said to you. carry the list with you, and add to it when you think of something similarly obnoxious that happened or was said.

then, when you are having the fantasy, take the list out and read it several times.

pretty soon you will be cured of the fantasy.

b2

I would suggest tapping into different emotions to fight the fantasy emotions you have. You will have to consciously do this though. Sickening Emotions Vs. Fantasy Emotions.

Think about a specific moment as a "go to thought". Like the time she laughed at your pain or told you that she cheated with a smirk on her face or the time you wanted to talk to her and she treated you like garbage instead or some moment that really stands out to you. What did her face look like, how did you feel? Repaint the scene in your mind till it sickens you (within reason).

One of my "go to thoughts" is from when she abandoned me. I remember her sneer and anger and heartlessness and all the other details that make me sick in 3D. There is no way I should ever be back with that person. Not only do I know it in my mind. I am sickened by the thought of it.

I really liked the list idea

As soon as I read that, I just made a huge list for myself

Its funny how easy it was to make it. With several points to it

I tried making a list of the good things, wrote one line

Sex

And that can be gotten anywhere

So really, what are we missing from them?

That's also a great idea, bewildered.

My moment is when she showed no emotion over me sitting next to my granny as she was in her death bed. Instead of being empathetic to me, she cried and wanted attention from me, and fought with me, literally as I was holding my dying grandmothers hand.

That's the day I should have left.

It is fantasy based... fantasy that the pwBPD was offering you unconditional love and encouragement, the fantasy that you mattered so much that someone was held with rapt attention to every word you said much of the time. The fantasy that this person idealizing you... was being themselves and was perfect to fill that hole in us somehow.

The fantasy is all ego driven, and tied to repressed emotions from our FOO... for both us and the pwBPD. When we argue with them... I noticed that my pwBPD would not hear me... she answered her own questions (wrongly)... and reacted to her answers... like she was caught in some kind of old incident tape loop, replaying it with me ... .over and over. She would get hysterical... worked up... and the old saying ... hysterical is historical... seemed true.

The opposite of a fantasy is reality, and mindfulness is essentially getting and staying grounded in your present moment reality, not ruminating about the past or torturing yourself about some horrible future you made up. So... stop the hurting with mindfulness.

Accepting reality is possible once you can stop the ruminating and have gone through the stages of grieving... as the r/s was intense, more like a death of a primary relation than a breakup... .but the reality to accept is multiparted; That they were not the idealized "soul mate" on a pedestal that you accepted them as... but rather was a disordered person with emotionally arrested development at about the level of a 3 yr old.  That the pedestal you put them on and the way you related to them was as the unconditonally loving parent you never had, or didn't have enough of... .was wildly innacurate... that in fact they were needy and mirroring you with your own self... basically blowing smoke. Finally that you... despite your long standing ego and belief that you are a good judge of character, that you are mature and level headed... were 1/2 of the r/s. You missed that they were disordered, you took abuse that was unjustified, felt and acted worse than most teenagers with puppy love... and in many ways could be seen as a bit crazed in the r/s yourself.

So... for me the fantasy clears up when I see the snarling hating pwBPD... as a 3 yr old mother substitute in an adults body... lying to me and costing me a marriage, a career and over a 1/4 million... and rewarding me with hate, abuse, insults, castrating comments... .and sleeping with 2 other guys in the course of our relatively short r/s.

Each part of what I had to accept... was hard... accepting she was disordered... truly disordered from a very young age... made it possible later for me to forgive her. My nearly unending hope... ended when I realized and accepted she was needy/blowing smoke/not the person she pretended to be, but much closer to the hater than the idealizing person I fell for. And the road to getting better... was realizing it was not her that caused all this... the pain and emotions were shut down and repressed long before she came on the scene... perhaps as early as her problems started. So... the experience was costly, and painful ... .but was a wake up call to work on my own issues, quit running from reality... .live life and feel things, good, bad and all the rest.

A few memories help remind me why it's best to stay away.

Her cheating

Her insisting that I be okay with her being friends with guys she's cheated on me with.

Her verbal abuse. As soon as I didn't agree to helping her with something, I was a b**tard, or an a-hole. Any time she felt she *needed* something and I refused... .

She blackmailed me with her ferret. She wanted *me* to be responsible for the thing every time I came over, and if I said "I don't want to do this" she said "Then he'll go hungry." I relented. One day I brought it up and she was like "Yeah, but I wasn't actually going to DO that." As if that makes a mother-f***ing difference. Epilogue, when I kicked her out, 4 days later I found a great home for him. The person owned several others, and seemed so happy to see my ferret (*mine* because he was dumped on me. I'm not angry about the animal, I'm angry at the person responsible.) Couldn't be happier that the little guy can spend his days among his own, well-fed and active.  :)

One time, I finally snapped and told her off about all the things that had been bothering me. All the pain and how I felt like she was being cruel. How she's allowed to be a jerk, but as soon as I so much as raise my voice, I'm a piece of garbage. As if I should be put in my place.

When I talked about how I felt this way with her, she had a blank expression on her face. Stared right into my eyes, totally no emotion. It was so unsettling. You know that fight or flight you get? I wanted to fight. Because that blank stare was like the nonverbal version of "fighting words." It's not just a challenge, it's domination, a total dismissal of their behavior and your feelings. Her cold look just made my blood fry. Part of me just wanted to reach over and just... .I don't even want to describe it here. I had never once felt like that about her until that moment. That stare... .

Obviously, I didn't do it. Nor would I have. I don't give in to these emotions, because I know the consequences. I'd feel regret and remorse after the fact, I'd probably never forgive myself for doing it. The trouble I'd be in, I'd deserve it.

So honestly, it's better this way. I would never want to hurt the people I love. With her gone, so is the risk of that happening. I don't like admitting that deep down I have these feelings and impulses. I guess you could say she brought out the worst in me. I'm just glad I never gave in.

Sure there's a fantasy of sex. But it didn't happen as much as I'd have liked. Nowhere near as often as I would have liked.

There were truly sweet moments of kindness. But look at the descriptions above. Does it look like the price I paid for those moments was worth it?


Also what helps is to just get busy with something else. If I'm thinking about her, then I'm not being productive. I'm not enjoying myself. I'm just reminiscing about something that will never come back. Sometimes it's just knowing that she's done with me that helps.

Sorry you have to go through this, to anyone that does. I know that we look at the nice things. Maybe it's our brain's way of keeping us from going mad. A defense mechanism, perhaps. Something that worked for our ancestors *most* of the time. But in such a case, it may just be maladaptive. Double-edged swords, am I right?

Hey, maybe an idea... .instead of thinking of past good memories, fantasize yourself with someone new. Someone who actually does treat you nice. Or someone you don't have to walk on eggshells with. Sometimes it helps, and it may just drive you to moving on, possibly find that person. You know?

I think this gives you a lot of power if you have that will power.  You're a big step ahead of me, since I would jump feet first into the snake pit given the chance and I know it's lose, lose situation.

The blood boiling over that blank stare... my god...

That blank f ing stare man.

The amount of restraint is ridiculous. Unheard of even.

I'm glad it wasn't just me.

But also not glad, because it sucked.

After finding out about the cheating, her just sitting there, and not even replying or seem to have any interest in the conversation at all... craziest feeling in the world

Had this experience almost exactly.  Before the conversation, she dropped her sunglasses and I accidentally stepped on them.  Then revelations, and an argument in which she just stared blankly at the ground and had literally nothing to say.  The next day, all that she had to say about the conversation? "Now I'm going to have to get new sunglasses."  Now THAT's dissociation. Terrifying.  And I stayed!

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses.  A few things.

Letting Go: Thank you for this.  Particularly the metaphor about the tiger.  I will read the book.  It is true: all emotions have a wave-like pattern to them, and all will flow away eventually.  Letting it wash over you is healthier than dunking your head underwater to avoid it. 

Eagle: I am right with you.  And of course, there are the most absurd moments of doubt of all: that with some other guy, the fantasy will become reality. I would add that, you're right, the only things in the "positive" column was the physical element and the adulation (idealization).  Sad that these are so important to me.

Kiwimitch: I agree the bad moments have a way of fading, and that this is a defense.   Just last night I had a "holy s**t" moment remembering some horrid thing she did. A real revelation.  This morning: gone.  Can't remember it anymore.  Like a dream.  I've started to write these things down as they come to me. 

Bewildered, AwakenedOne: These are strategies I have tried, and that have worked at times.  The problem is, I'll admit: it's so painful to think about the horrible moments that, when I start trying to list them, I shut off immediately, get distracted, etc.  Just too painful still to focus on it. Or, worse, I'll try to convince myself that the behaviors weren't pathological, or that I'm over-reacting.

Charred: thank you for this.  Resonates deeply. 

Vatz: I agree.  It's clear that the risks outweigh the benefits by a mile.  And yes, I need to stay busy: it is only in moments of loneliness, anger, or disappointment that I feel these urges (and I mean anger or disappointment that doesn't actually relate to her).

Trust me, I'm also sad that it's so very important to me as well. Having an abnormally hot girl, who had the perfect package. And comfortably thinking for a year "man I got this all to myself for the rest of my life"

Then poof, next day they're sleeping with anyone else. And you have no idea why

Amen, my brother.  I am exactly where you are.  I still can't get little miss atomic bomb out of my heart.  I can't stop this insane, undying hope that some miracle will bring her back and she'll finally make good on all of her millions of broken promises.

It really was all a feverish dream.  A fantasy.  It was too good to be true.  Falling in love with her was like being a teenager again and falling in love for the very first time - except a million times better.  It was the most electrifying, exciting experience I've ever had.  It was like I had never known what happiness was before.  Like I'd never been alive until then.  It's hard to lose something like that.  It's a kind of loss that can't really be replicated in any other loss.

I thought this many times: that this experience was like falling in love with my high school girlfriend for the first time, the incredible excitement of that, etc.  There were MANY times that I was actually very wary of this, frightened even.  I thought: I'm in my mid-thirties.  It can't possibly be healthy to be feeling like a teenager again.  In fact, everything about the relationship was like that but heightened: from the expressions of love, to the physical affection, to the types of fights we had and the way we had them, to the occasionally nasty and childish behavior.  Stuff that had not happened to me in adult relationships, both good and bad.  I knew this was a bad thing, I really did.  But sadly in the "good" moments it was so intoxicating... .well, we all know.  I became an addict.  And the cravings are still there. 

Ugh tell me about it my ex looked just like Alexis Texas and had all the same assets

I thought it was true love.  Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic or maybe just a fool.  I really didn't ascribe anything negative to it at all.  At the time, it just seemed to happen so naturally.  So effortlessly.  We were just insanely, madly in love.  I thought that it was a natural outcome of being so head over heels in love.  Maybe love isn't supposed to be like that.  Clearly I have some re-evaluating to do on what love even is.

If there's one thing of which I'm certain, it's that love isn't supposed to be like that.  Real love TAKES TIME.  Affection, trust, respect, companionship: these are things that BUILD.  If it comes all at once, it's an illusion.  And if it's easy, it's most DEFINITELY an illusion.

Ditto...

When I was dumped years ago by my exBPDgf... I thought it was the worst thing that had happened to me. If someone had told me it was the best, I would have argued till I was blue in the face. For 20+ yrs I thought my life would be so different if only I had her back. Then after 25 or so years she reached out and I got her back... and it was blissful for a few months... okay for a few more... and a new level of hell Dante missed for 3 yrs. Despite my pining for her... .fact is the best thing she did was dump me... had she stayed with me and married me and we had kids... would have been even worse (though it has taken me 30 yrs to realize it so clearly).

It was an illusion... she was playing make believe and I bought it, and thought it was real. These days if I feel those insane sparks... I realize... its insanity... and move along.

You might be on to something.  My relationship with my ex did happen relatively quickly, but not quite overnight.  It built over 3 or 4 months before we actually started dating.  Once we started dating, however, we moved lightening fast.  I thought I wanted to marry her only a few months in (I didn't propose or anything, but I was definitely thinking about it).  The one thing that is so striking is how completely effortlessly it seemed to happen.  I guess in retrospect that is somewhat odd, but I guess I bought into the whole idea that this was destiny.  That God had brought us together.  I believed that into my bones at one time.  It is a fantasy, but the most seductive, intoxicating of fantasies.  For me, it was impossible to resist.  I didn't stand a chance.  She had my number.   I guess I have to figure out how that happened.

Damn charred... I'm really sorry to hear about that.

I have no words to say to that, I'm too young and naive at 23, to know that pain. I've not yet experienced life to that extent.

I hope the best for you though man.

To me, that's the question: how did it happen?  Why was I vulnerable to this "most intoxicating of fantasies."  I know there are many in our community who think literally anyone is susceptible to this, but I don't believe that to be the case.  I am too cautious and deliberate in other areas of my life to fall for anything like this... .to fall for a "free lunch" if you will... .there's something I need to figure out.  

As for the thinking of marrying someone a few months in: realize that marriage can last for 50, 60 years.  3 months is exactly 4 tenths of one percent of that.  Think about that!  :)oesn't seem like enough time to evaluate the most important decision of your life. Which isn't to say that you or I were foolish, just that we were caught in an illusion, that what we saw was a mirage in the desert and we must have been very, very thirsty.  

I'm so reluctant to have actually not fallen for the lightning speed thing. Idk if it was just me, my standards, my way of thinking, or if I could just deep down sense the voidness of genuineness. But for the two years we were together, I had not once, let my guard down, I didn't dive in, what so ever. She was so easily obtained and so easily stayed, I gave no effort to keep her. Not once did I take her on a date, in two years. We hung out, outside of the bedroom, maybe twice.

Yet I'm still distraught over what happened. Even as distant as I kept, I still hurt, and it was traumatic. I can only imagine what everyone else is going through.

I definitely loved her, but I kept it to such a blissful extent.

The fantasy is pure torture, isn't it?

Every time I drop the kid off, I have to see the house. The place I poured my life savings into. The home I dreamed of living in with my husband and my child ... .maybe even more children ... .

Oh, that fantasy is a real, tangible, material thing for me, and I get to see it every week.

So is the bed I spent a small fortune on. You know, the one he'd brought a few other women in.

My favorite mug those women drink out of. The sofa I picked out, that they sit on with him (and God knows what else), and all the other home decor things I worked so hard on over the years they get to enjoy. He told me he never had a *home* until he met me, and has appreciated all the little things I did to make our house a real home.

Then there's the real estate agent he found. The one who helped his ex girlfriend, the one he brought into my bed after I specifically asked him not to.

The time he convinced me that he and my best friend were having an affair (as a joke), which I couldn't confirm because she was overseas and had gotten into a car accident, so I had no way of knowing why she wasn't contacting me once getting back into the country (she was overseas in a hospital trying to recover, while I thought she was with him).

The way he laughed so heartily when my face revealed what I can only describe as being faced with the most devastating, soul-crushing possibility I had ever faced in my life (he and my best friend having an affair - which wasn't even true).

When I think of the torture he's put me through, and I've only described a drop in a bucket here, that fantasy goes up in flames. I felt genuine rage. At this stage, the rage is subsiding and I now begin to feel indifference.

Indifference is the opposite of love. He once told me that's what scared him the most.

And I know the indifference is what's killing him inside, and in some weird paradox, it makes me want to be as indifferent as possible. Even if that means faking it until I make it.

The fantasy isn't worth it. My indifference, however, is, and I'm not giving that up for anything.

I do think to some degree that anyone is susceptible to falling in love with a pwBPD.  Wanting someone to love you passionately and completely is a universal human need.  And that is exactly what a pwBPD seems to be providing.  However, I agree that the people that wind up here - the people like us - are uniquely primed for these relationships.  I do think that we have something in our own psychological make-up that both makes us the perfect attachment for a BPD partner and also makes our BPD partner the perfect fulfillment to our own core needs.   So we form these incredibly loaded bonds with our BPD partners and when it breaks it is explosive and there's hell to pay.  I think of it kind of like splitting an atom.  I'm still trying to work though how all of this happened too.  I do think that you are right that I was thirsting for something that I may have rarely, or perhaps even never had before.  And my ex seemed to quench that for a while until the mirage turned out to be nothing but sand.

Yes, I think that's a fair way if looking at it: anyone could fall into these relationships, but people who don't have whatever we have are more likely to cut their losses when things start going bad, more likely to say "I dodged a bullet" and actually believe it. Like, when I saw that blank state (another thing btw that she shared with my high school girlfriend), I thought to myself "dude, this is NOT someone you want to be with. That is not adult behavior." But I stuck around for more.

Thank You...

I was 23 when my exBPDgf dumped me the first time... devastating me. If I had known then what I know now... would never have moved away from my home town, my friends and family. Would have become a buddhist (not to be a buddhist but back then mindfulness was not available and popular like it is now)... and I would have see a good Therapist to work through the anxiety/stress and even PTSD from the bad r/s. Been working on my problems about 2 yrs now... and I am doing so much better... had I worked on things at your age... the 30 yrs could have been filled with far more good times and really living... .

If much of your day is spent in fantasy... see a T, and work on getting connected with reality... exercise, learn to feel, check out bioenergetic excersises on youtube... check in with life and live it. While pining over Ms. Crazypants... I missed out on so many other hot chicks... and real people... it made me realize... if you don't overcome fears... get someone to work with you and get past them... you can do it.

Though I can't answer for you, I can certainly give you a glimpse of how I got in this mess, and maybe how others might have.

I *knew* I wasn't her "first choice." It hurt. But at the time, I truly believed I deserved no better. I still struggle with this. Perhaps it's true. (Again, not everyone's a winner.)

But I should say, there's one opportunity I missed while with her. It still bothers me. A month after finding out about her emotional affair, there was this woman at a get-together. We danced, and she... .got close. I could have cheated. I don't know why I didn't. She was active, vigorous and above all, FUN to dance with. Some dancers feel weightless when they move with you. Others you can feel the kinetic energy they throw around, I prefer the latter, and that was her. She was my sister's work colleague and apparently used to work as a body-guard, it would explain why she was in such great shape. Here was this woman, who I never met before, who was attractive and strong, touching me and welcoming my hands on her. There wasn't going to be a "call you," and she knew that. I don't think she much cared.

I hate to say it, but I should have cheated. I may have felt bad for a little while, but it would have been good for my mental health in the long run. Sometimes, forgiveness and being "the better person" is overrated. At the very least, I'd have a sweet memory to hold on to when things inevitably got worse with my BPDSO. Might have even compelled me to leave her sooner. If only out of guilt.

It was a fun and wonderful evening for me though. Not sure if another opportunity like that will come around. C'est la vie.

I remember in the relationship I talked about building trust and all that kind of stuff to build the foundations of a solid relationship because I had already thought I had found the one with her. Then durring a very traumatic experience she had me make her promises the truama bond and devaluing imprints them into so many repressed memories.  But the fantasy started before that.  It was like the fantasy girl I dreamed of my entire life came to life and it was her. She became the living embodiment of everything I never even knew I wanted or needed. She was the keystone to feeling everything I had ever seeked in my fantasies.

It's not so much as letting go of the fantasy of her but letting go of your own personal fantasies hopes and dreams.  Letting go of preconceived notions of what anything is. Who you think you are and how you like to think of yourself.  It's not just our own fantasy we created it the fantasy we have internalized from the media and authority figures and culture.  The aspect of each of these fantasies that crest the collage of our identity  it's that feeling of belonging. That's what the borderline provides that imprints on every level of our false self the feeling of belonging. 

Quoting eagle:

"As for me, it's still hard to fathom that the person I held in such high esteem, thought to be so extremely faithful and great. Turned out to be even lesser than the worst of my exes.

I always have these moments of doubt, and think why can't I be the hero? And why or how could she do such a thing to me? And we think about being with them again, but we know for a very fact, that it can never work. The pain they caused is so very irreversible, especially the cheating and lying."

EXACTLY what I lived through. Intellectually I know and grasp every morsel.

BUT. (LOL!). ... .the fantasy still lives within me.

I am going to try Bewildered's idea of making a list and adding to it. Putting pen to paper may help. There is something spiritual about that process.

I don't have any fake police reports to reread! Thanks for that chiefsalsa... .it let's me know that I guess  got off easier than some... .

BnS, Stay in the present.

You mentioned "This has proven the case with her over and over again."

But you refer to your fantasy of a stable r/s with her in hypothetical terms: "could", "would" etc.

Based on her present (and past) behavior

Do you want a relationship with who she is and the way she behaves to you now?

No "if"s or "could"s?

Hope this helps... .

TIL

I've been struggling with the same issue for the past 5 or 6 months now. It's like a head vs heart thing for me: intellectually I understand it would never work, but my heart still longs for that fantasy I created, where everything would magically fall into place, despite all the obvious problems.

Inadvertently saw her & her new BF (#2 since the breakup) kissing on a street corner at a busy bus stop the other day on my way home from work. We unfortunately work together & that bus stop is right outside the building we work in. It felt like someone had taken an axe to my chest. I was holding back tears the whole way home. I already knew about the BF, but seeing them together, being so intimate in a public place, the mother of my children, looking so in love with her eyes closed in bliss, nuzzling this guy's neck... .that finally drove the message home.

She was never mine, & I was never as important to her as she made it seem, it was all an act, it was never real. It hurt like hell to see that, but a penny dropped somewhere inside me. It was as though seeing it, having it almost rubbed in my face that she has well & truly moved on, that's what it took to finally knock that fantasy out of my consciousness.

Well, that's really the problem trapped.  I know that I DONT want a relationship with her.  It's not that I'm ruminating so much as the thoughts come out of the blue, unprompted, in an intrusive fashion.  I would like those thoughts to stop.  

I so can relate with this.  I am going to start on my list this morning... .I know it will be exactly as you have stated here... .

Those intrusive thoughts will subside over time, just be patient with yourself and keep NC as you're not ready for any form of contact with her without getting triggered.

I still have this line of thoughts emerging from time to time and every time I remind myself cognitively who I want in my life:

People who really care about me and I care about them.

People I can count on who put their actions where their mouth is.

Currently, she's not there. Period.

Therefore I don't want her in my life now.

Lots of great advice here  |iiii

It's so easy to end up stuck. Clinging to a malignant fantasy of what might have been or somehow still be  

I think writing a brutally honest list of the darkest moments can really help you dig out the roots of the fantasy.  :light:

Refer to every day or at any sign of weakness or magical thinking.  

Done regularly, this reality testing can really help reframe the relationship in much healthier way and help you really accept the reality of your relationship  |iiii

The next step is to follow the need.

Why were we with them? What need did they fulfil?

Because for all of us were there for a reason.  :light:

Discovering it is hard work. It can be uncomfortable. And real, deep acceptance can be even harder.   :'(

But it's the only way to move forward

Finally I think forgiving yourself, for your own part and the time you spent with them - especially when it's a big chunk of your life - is one of the biggest hurdles.

But it's the gateway to freedom.  |iiii

Many members have done it and so can you.

Good luck

Reforming (slowly)

WOW! This is probably one of the most helpful threads I've read so far. Can you say more about mirroring, and what that really means?

Thank you.

From: The parenting process guidelines: mirroring                   (google it)

To accurately mirror another:

Listen for and identify a specific emotion you hear and then reflect it back, conveying through tone and intensity that you get as best you can the experiential feel of their communication.

For example: My little girl comes home from school with castdown eys and says, "Nobody likes me." And instead of trying to reassure her by telling her not to be silly, I say in a matching soft tone, "You sound so sad. Feeling like nobody likes you? Sounds like you had a really hard day". A mirroring response will lead to an opening of a genuine opportunity for connection.

My little one saying,"Yes, mommy. I'm sad. Suzie wouldn't sit next to me today and yesterday she was my best friend."gives us a place to start.

Empathic mirroring is a heart skill, and like any skill improves with practice.


... .

Recognizing children’s emotions validates their individual existence, making it safe for them to express their genuine feelings in their relationship with us.

The mirroring basically makes us feel validated... which is the opposite of what most of us with issues had growing up... we feel like someone finally understands and cares about us.

I think Charred has given a very good explanation. 2010, Skip and many senior members also have posted some brilliant and really helpful insights on this which are worth exploring

This is my slightly cruder understanding of the role that mirroring plays in BPD relationships.

In the honeymoon phase BPD mirror / reflect an idealised version of our self image - that's the image of ourselves that we want to present to the world.

Strong, loving, etc whatever qualities we most value and want to project. It's not to say that we may not have many of these qualities but for a while BPDs almost embrue them and us with a divine fire of perfection.

For us (and there are reasons why we end up these relationships) this mirroring / idealisation of how we want the world to see us (not how we actually are) is incredibly powerful and addictive  . They're attaching themselves to us because they lack any consistent sense of self and they do that by fusing with their idealised version of who we are.

Depending on our narcissistic traits we not only feel that we've finally met someone who can see us for who we really are (or want to be)  - we feel that we're even better than we ever imagined.

Either way this mirroring fills a deep need or emptiness in us.

But it's not real

Eventually when the relationship deteriorates, and it always does  (engulfment, fear of abandonment, unstable sense of self and all the other dynamics which define a relationship with BPD) they began to devalue us.

And this glorious reflection of our idealised self (which was never real) begins to crack.  :'(

Most of us try to recapture it and the golden light that seemed to shine upon us.

But even if we manage to readjust this mirror for a few fragmentary moments it never lasts.

By the end it's shattered into smithereens and for a while so are we, or rather our false selves / idealised images are shattered too.

If we are brave enough to move beyond the trauma and hurt into acceptance - to take responsibility for own behaviour we begin to recognise that the needs that drew us to them and these relationships can only be filled by us

There are better explanations from other posters that are really worth reading

Good luck

Reforming (without any reflective surfaces)

The list thing has been helping incredibly

I've looked at it twice today, each time after feeling like crap for random thoughts. And it has helped so much.

Luckily my ex was annoying as all heck. I just deleted the 400 photos she took of us. My god lol.

Of course that'd be hard for anyone else, but I hated the fact that she took pictures of everything.

I guess my grief will turn into hate and annoyance for her. Maybe that's good

I have been doing a little better lately after 6 months since the break up with my exBPDgf but still have a long way to go before I can consider myself "OK"

This thread has been incredible.  Thank each and every one of you for taking the time to write.  I feel like I have taken six steps forward after reading and might only take one step back when I have my next rough moment.

Thank you all

The process of detaching from the fantasy takes time.  NC is just a tool to help you detach.  Certainly working on the reasons why I stayed in an abusive relationship also helps along with professional help.