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How many of you have heard this line from your pwBPD? What do you think it 'means'?

For mine it seems to be the only thing on his mind...

Hi Rollercoaster1 

Gosh, this was one of my dBPDexbf's favorites! "I don't want to hurt you anymore", "I'll just hurt you more if I stay", "I just hurt people"... .there were many variations  In fact it was one of the last things he said to me when I busted him for lying 3 months ago.

What does it mean? I feel with my ex he did know on some level his behaviour wasn't cool, he used to say to me "my head isn't right sometimes" (it was quite sad actually) and he hated to see me upset because of his behaviour which I think largely was out of his control, even though he was aware of it.

My ex was a textbook male waif and he always used to say it in a "woe is me" kinda way so I also felt there was a bit of a "pity party" for him when he would use it... .I don't know, to try and make me feel sorry for him, to comfort him, say "no, that's not true" and so on. I used to say "WELL STOP IT THEN!"

My exBPD was more confident/cocky even. He stated numerous times that he would never ever hurt me, that he would always have my back.

It was the exact opposite to what he did.

I think he wanted to believe that love would conquer all. He said I'd helped him deal with issues he'd battled on his own his whole life.

In the end, he hurt me so much more than anyone in my life.

And still continues to try to.

I hear that one a lot. I always answer: Then just stop doing it.

Everytime we argue _{(which lately has been every week because he is "sensitive" and everything I say might hurt him)} he brings out the Hulk and THEN its all about the "You deserve so much better." "I can´t stand causing you so much pain"


Why doesnt he just stop it?... .He is aware he is a little brat when he gets into the BPD side of him but he is also addicted to it and addicted to the fights and having all my attention on him. Its really sad to see it... .

I do have some empathy for someone with BPD saying these words because I actually think that they can be said congruently (at the time). They don't want to hurt you but also they don't know how not to hurt people. It is natural. Perhaps like asking us to start hurting someone deliberately. Or asking someone who self harms to stop cutting themselves. It feeds something within them and is very difficult to fight the urge.

Agreed, Pavilion. I did feel it was sincere when my ex used to say this. You are very wise to add "at the time"!


Agreed again. It's like he is aware but can't control it, as you say - it is natural to them. Example: Very early on in our relationship my dBPDexbf told me a completely hideous lie, something so awful that when I exposed it I really I should have run. It was designed to elicit sympathy for him and when the truth came out I got the "I don't want to hurt you", "I do this all the time, I hurt people" and so on. I once asked him about the ease with which he told me this lie and he said "It just came out. I couldn't stop it. The minute it had come out of my mouth I wanted to take it back because I knew I had damaged our relationship before it had even really started. I had ruined something yet again".

[/quote]
Agreed again. It's like he is aware but can't control it, as you say - it is natural to them. Example: Very early on in our relationship my dBPDexbf told me a completely hideous lie, something so awful that when I exposed it I really I should have run. It was designed to elicit sympathy for him and when the truth came out I got the "I don't want to hurt you", "I do this all the time, I hurt people" and so on. I once asked him about the ease with which he told me this lie and he said "It just came out. I couldn't stop it. The minute it had come out of my mouth I wanted to take it back because I knew I had damaged our relationship before it had even really started. I had ruined something yet again".[/quote]
That's very sad :-( It is awful that they are suffering like this but awful too that we have to be on the receiving end. I don't know what lies (if any) I have been fed because there would be no way of discovering the truth as he has no friends or family around him to uncover the truth. Am I naïve to be thinking that he was being honest?

Hi Pavilion 


It is very sad, you're right, for both ends. Once we cried together over it (before I found out the truth), later on I said to him "If it was a lie then why were you crying so convincingly about it?". He said "I cried because I lied. I knew it was wrecked. I knew I had hurt you and I knew I was in a mess yet again"


Ha! Mine thought he wouldn't be caught out because he too has no family or friends. I rumbled him myself via the fabulous medium of... .Facebook! I nearly passed out from shock!


Well, I couldn't really say because although pwBPD seem to have predictable traits they are certainly not all the same. For example I see a lot of stuff on here about pwBPD cheating but this wasn't a concern of mine when I was in my relationship. I can't be 100% sure, of course, but I never had any reason to think he cheated. I always think gut instinct is your best bet - I knew something was up with the lie he told me, I just couldn't put my finger on it!

My ex wouldn't cheat either. All his spare time was with me and he was investing all his energies into me which became quite suffocating in the end. My gut is telling me that there were some lies woven in somewhere.

How do  you quote specific parts of a past as you have above?

Well when you have the tet that you wish to quote you can delete the part you don't want. I just copy and paste it a few times and keep the bit I want and delete the bit I don't!

Narrelin this was my experience as well.  I was told this repeatedly. I would never let anyone hurt you, you couldn't push me away ever, etc. repeatedly.  And like you was hurt the greatest by the very same person who did the literal opposite repeatedly  and harshly.

I was continually told during the push away pre- split " I dont want to hurt you anymore."  It was like pushing the repeat button.  When I would ask him to justify why he was treating me the way he was. No real answer at all, but that statement.  Then he would just leave me there and depart.  Until he would come back and do it again.

Heard it too many times to remember. And I do believe her, and I believe she meant it. It was one of the infinite reasons why she would break up... .she would realize she is hurting me, and thinks we are better apart than together. Children are impulsive, and so are borderlines. They might do something without thinking it through or how it might hurt someone. When they do realize it hurts someone, they do feel extremely bad and guilty. But they just can't control it while they are doing it. Because it feels "right" at the time they are doing something that might hurt us.

Elessar that is how I experience this too. If I have a need or try to sort out an issue between us, it will always end with "I don't want to hurt you" and "you deserve better than this." Like you I think it is sincere and he suddenly realises what he has done and the accompanying shame often leads to him running or suggesting we just be friends or take a break. I think this is because he has no idea how to stop hurting me, it is how he has always interacted and he can't change the script.

I've heard him discuss how he interacts with his friends and he will have impulsively reacted to feeling rejected or feel indebted to someone with a hurtful remark, at the time he means to hurt but afterwards really wishes he hadn't, knows it wasn't deserved and that it isn't within his normal character reaction to behave that way. He prefers it if the issue isn't pointed out and then he can just rewrite it. Pointing out the hurt or appearing hurt touched deeply on his core shame, so hurt someone once becomes he is a bad person who always hurts others and does nothing good.

Sugar,   

Reflective and holds truth. In the moment I do believe there is a feeling of shame for hurting others.  It is not a shame that rises any where near to the surface to allow any real change though.  Its perhaps felt for that moment, like a child having to listen to a parent, but its quickly projected with " if i am hurting you i am bad, i must then leave you."  They run from accountability really. Thats what the entire idealization phase encompasses as well. All good. All fantasy. When the reality/bad comes, they ditch.

These moments of very brief realization as to the very real hurt BPDs impose on others could be a beneficial jumping point, but bc they are emotionally arrested, lack empathy, and are one sided in their ability to understand need, it goes no where.  Just repeats.  The nons are the ones left  truly feeling the hurt.  And it is in the hard truth of that very real hurt which repeats and worsens that  can and should have been the jumping point for us here.  The effort now should be turned inward on ourselves to understand why we did not jump, rather, we stayed and justified.  There's the healing work to be done so these interactions do not repeat. Or they indeed will

Its perhaps felt for that moment, like a child having to listen to a parent, but its quickly projected with " if i am hurting you i am bad, i must then leave you."  They run from accountability really. Thats what the entire idealization phase encompasses as well. All good. All fantasy. When the reality/bad comes, they ditch. [/quote]
Beautifully said! In an adult relationship, we can mistakenly hurt someone, and we realize that if you hurt me you would apologize and we will work on fixing it. For them, any disagreement or hurt means that "we aren't compatible" or "right for each other". For years I had wanted to tell her that "I can never express my feelings of hurt to you because every time I do, you decide to leave or think we shouldn't be together."

Similarly in the idealization phase when they mirror us, they do it because they have no inner self. If I like XYZ, they like XYZ. If I think in a progressive way, they would start thinking in a progressive way. I appreciated having the similar thinking about human rights and equality. But her liking everything I do, and having no interests or hobbies of hers always made me uncomfortable in the honeymoon phase. And once that phase was over, it would be back to "we aren't right for each other because I liked these things only because you like them". Asking her "what do you like/what do you want to do" never got a reply. Because she (or they) grew in a controlling environment where her parents threaten to disown her if she isn't obedient to them, that's the mentality they have when they are with us. If they can't fulfill all our fantasies (no one can and we don't ask for it), or if they hurt us, or if we can't give them all they want, then they must leave us. Because it is all or nothing. Either we are mirror images of each other, or we aren't good for each other.

Sounds about right. Mine broke up with me in the first place because she didn't want me put up with her problems and i was way too nice for her. Heard a lot of other reasons for the breakup afterwards though, so i don't know if she actually was serious about it. Maybe at the time... .

Beautifully said! In an adult relationship, we can mistakenly hurt someone, and we realize that if you hurt me you would apologize and we will work on fixing it. For them, any disagreement or hurt means that "we aren't compatible" or "right for each other". For years I had wanted to tell her that "I can never express my feelings of hurt to you because every time I do, you decide to leave or think we shouldn't be together."

Similarly in the idealization phase when they mirror us, they do it because they have no inner self. If I like XYZ, they like XYZ. If I think in a progressive way, they would start thinking in a progressive way. I appreciated having the similar thinking about human rights and equality. But her liking everything I do, and having no interests or hobbies of hers always made me uncomfortable in the honeymoon phase. And once that phase was over, it would be back to "we aren't right for each other because I liked these things only because you like them". Asking her "what do you like/what do you want to do" never got a reply. Because she (or they) grew in a controlling environment where her parents threaten to disown her if she isn't obedient to them, that's the mentality they have when they are with us. If they can't fulfill all our fantasies (no one can and we don't ask for it), or if they hurt us, or if we can't give them all they want, then they must leave us. Because it is all or nothing. Either we are mirror images of each other, or we aren't good for each other.[/quote]
Well said! I always said to her, nobody is perfect. I know i am not perfect, neither are you. You have to accept that people have flaws. And if they have some traits you don't like, talk about it! Maybe you can fix it. I accepted the whole lot of craziness she had, but she would never accept any flaws i had. I wasn't right for her she said. Ugh... .

And yeah i always had to make plans for dates and i always had to tell "us" what we would do. And she would go mad if i the plans i made didn't go accordingly to her wishes. It's so stupid.

yes, i heard it a couple of times, with sincere tone... .but, but... .___ it.

when she admitted that she cheated on me, i kissed her again an hour later.  so sick. 

And she would go mad if i the plans i made didn't go accordingly to her wishes. It's so stupid.[/quote]
That is what led me to stumbling across BPD 2.5 years back. She has never made plans even once... .not once. In late December 2011 (after she had already broken up with me officially), she wanted me to take her on a date. Any place I suggested in NYC was unacceptable to her because 1. she doesn't want to be seen with me in case she runs into people who will recognize her and tell her parents. 2. she doesn't want to go too far from work because her parents expect her to be home by X time (usually 8pm). After giving tons of choices, I said how about a motel. Because since college days she would tease me why I am not taking her to a motel... .

She said No. I said ok, you can think of something and let me know. Towards the end of conversation she said "motel is fine. i just want to spend time with you". Next day when I picked her up and she asked where are we going, I said this motel. What followed was one of the worst rages I have seen. She equated me to her uncles who had sexually abused her as a child. She refused to accept that she ever said yes. I mean... .being equated to rapists is really hurtful... .haha. That led to me research online that my gf lives in an alternate reality. And as you, movie wasnt a choice coz she cant talk to u. Starbucks? "thats where you want to take me"? bar? i can't near my work area coz i don't want coworkers to see us. "you should have just taken me to a restaurant". but i asked you that last night! that was the first time I broke down crying in public... .and she walked away saying I don't want to be seen with someone who is crying.

Oh my, this is exactly like my ex too. I remember him saying "I'm done hurting you" with such sincerity, and it was one of his biggest, most repeated promises that he'd always protect me (although I didn't feel I needed protecting), that I'd reduced him so he'd always be there to rescue me no matter what. Once, after one of his episodes, I asked him how he'd have responded if it had been someone else speaking to me the way he had done. He looked incredibly guilty.

I reached out for that help, once when he was splitting me black. I was desperate and asked for his help. He didn't even ask what was wrong, he just said no. It was all highly conditional.

He also seemed to want to reject me in order to protect me from himself. I remember him saying "just dump me and go out with an accountant so you don't get hurt again". It always made me angry that he was content to make my decisions for me like that.

That is what led me to stumbling across BPD 2.5 years back. She has never made plans even once... .not once. In late December 2011 (after she had already broken up with me officially), she wanted me to take her on a date. Any place I suggested in NYC was unacceptable to her because 1. she doesn't want to be seen with me in case she runs into people who will recognize her and tell her parents. 2. she doesn't want to go too far from work because her parents expect her to be home by X time (usually 8pm). After giving tons of choices, I said how about a motel. Because since college days she would tease me why I am not taking her to a motel... .

She said No. I said ok, you can think of something and let me know. Towards the end of conversation she said "motel is fine. i just want to spend time with you". Next day when I picked her up and she asked where are we going, I said this motel. What followed was one of the worst rages I have seen. She equated me to her uncles who had sexually abused her as a child. She refused to accept that she ever said yes. I mean... .being equated to rapists is really hurtful... .haha. That led to me research online that my gf lives in an alternate reality. And as you, movie wasnt a choice coz she cant talk to u. Starbucks? "thats where you want to take me"? bar? i can't near my work area coz i don't want coworkers to see us. "you should have just taken me to a restaurant". but i asked you that last night! that was the first time I broke down crying in public... .and she walked away saying I don't want to be seen with someone who is crying.[/quote]
Ouch... .that's awful. It was never that extreme with my ex. But she did flip out once when she noticed i didn't make a reservation for a restaurant for example. I mean come on... .relax will ya?

I actually just remembered the most painful thing she said to me. I told her we were 3 months together and i was happy. She told me, who cares? You sound like a woman... .

Stay away from them. I wouldn't have said these words even last week. But stay away from them. Years of psychological and emotional abuse will reduce you to dust. I just got back from therapy... .one of my best therapy sessions ever. I finally cried at the end because finally a human being believed my stories. My friends or our mutual friends wouldn't believe my stories because they couldn't believe a human being could do something like that. especially someone as successful as a dentist in outward appearances. my therapist said she has heard horror stories like these from the children of borderline mothers, so she believes all the hell i went through. and in 45 mins i could only tell 8 months of stories... .years of stories still to go.

but stay away from them, and go to therapy if you have to. protect yourself first before they destroy your inner core and leave hollow and empty inside.

This is perhaps one of the most damaging ways pBPD hurt us. The emotional gas lighting.

They make us believe we need their protection, their ever presence in our lives in which we can always turn to them, no matter the reason, and they will be there fully. 

I can recall my expBPD saying things like this to me as well. And I too thought, I don't need protection. But he phrased these words interlaced with such endearment. Such "love", in the us against the world type way. And then went on gain my trust in revealing my inner most feelings as he poured his onto me. 

During idealization, we are also idealizing our partners. So, when the pBPD claims to be by your side through the good and the bad and goes to great length to make you believe this, it truly begins to feel ideal. Even if you never thought of yourself as needing a protector. Who doesn't want someone to "care" about them to this degree?

It's extremely traumatic that the very person who goes to the endth degree to become your confidant, your other half, your protector, your "soulmate" then becomes the hard cold opposite over night.

They can take no accountability for their cruel actions. They hook you in with manipulative falsehoods then harshly exploit you in these now most vulnerable areas. Their only plan of action when approached is to leave you. So you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Accept the treatment or I will leave you. Don't call me on my actions or I will leave you. Don't try to rationalize with me to make me see how I am hurting you and how I might correct this, or I will leave you.

It's another cruel gas lighting manipulation. Becoming the false protector once again.

Of only themselves.

My expBPD recycled me the last time with a manipulation that he "needed me". He needed me to come rescue him. He was sobbing and pleading in such abandoned waif persona when I found him. He was "so undone" about my refusal to participate in the r/s any longer ( of course after splitting me with SL for 3 weeks) that he manipulated me into saving him. He "needed me." The weeks w/out me were "horrible" and he just could not go on this way. It was "us" and he could not lose me.

Bc I had saved him from his grief, his aches, pains, his desperate emotional needs, traveling hither and yon to his side so very many times in the long interaction, I really believed that no matter what bcame of my future with or without him, this man would be there for me. In the most human of ways.

I cared for and about this man. I fed him emotionally and literally. I valued him and I was concerned for him. I respected him and I admired much about him. And I did indeed love him, seeing him as an incredibly sensitive man who indeed needed me. As I did him. In the purest of ways.

I had gone to him for closure after being dumped seemly overnight (pre BPD knowledge) after this last emotional recycle.

I can honestly say that I never, ever believed my expBPD could ever be the very person who literally left me on the side of the road covered in tears, shaking, unable to speak, and completely traumatized. This was a very weak moment for me in which I could take no more and was undone as a result of the immense, cruel, horrid push/pull and d/d of which I had no understanding, only knowing this was horrific to my shattered heart.

I went to him, asked him why he did this to me. What in the world was going on? Why in the world had he yet again begged me to come to him, to be by his side, to take all that effort to reel me back in to then abandon me, hard and cruel and go SL... .for no reason at all?

He was colder than anyone I have ever interacted with. Looking at me with disgust. He could barely make the time for me. And he refused to acknowledge a thing about my need.  I was garbage to him. He had distain and a huge wall around him. He HATED me. A hate I had never known. I could taste the hate, thats how vile it felt.

This was, truly, one of the most emotionally undone moments of my entire life. He just left me there. And seemed not one bit affected. AT ALL.  I don't think a stranger would lack the heart to do so. To anyone. I literally felt like I was going to die. Literally. I could not breathe, see straight, think, or grasp a thing to hold onto to understanding that this man was doing this to me. After he gained my trust. Again.  I can't even believe this as I type. I had never felt this way before. In my entire life.

My protector.

This was one of the areas I concentrated on in EMDR. It was that traumatic.

Oh CVM... .you write so beautifully. Congratulations on becoming an ambassador! It took me half an hour to respond to this because I felt so overwhelmed and teary-eyed. So similar are your stories and our pain. I have reached a place where blaming them won't solve Borderline Personality Disorder in the future. We cannot control genetics, but maybe we can try for a society with good parenting and no childhood trauma that can lead to BPD. This disorder destroys lives in a way that is incomprehensible. Feels like we will go to the grave wondering "why/how/what"... .

Elessar, thank you for your words. I dont blame borderlines for their disorder as I realize the trauma they invoke on us is equivalent to the trauma which they endured. It's been said here that understanding BPD is easy, comprehending and  fully accepting it is the difficult part bc these are very loving, good incredibly larger than life ppl when they are " good."  Thats why the heart has a difficult time catching up to the head on full detachment. 

We here tend to remember only the very good. Which keeps us very stuck.  Bc the good was very, very unique and became almost like mothers milk if you will. To both of us for a while.  Just incredibly warm and safe and full of deep affection and unspoken caring. Like rocking a child to sleep deep in the quiet night while only the sound of pure love can be heard.  It was very much that state of defuse and poignant peacefulness when I was with him. And I loved him.  And that place very much. Its difficult to realize that this man I shared that depth of a bond with erased me. And acts as I am a complete stranger, apparently having erased and forgotten very much about our r/s.  I think he gives more respect and acknowledgment to the gas attendant than me. He has erased me fully.  Thats the hurt that keeps on giving. Bc I could never erase him much as I try.

This is the hardest part about fully accepting that the disorder will always win. Bc we miss very much that mothers milk, that very special place known to only two, which really was known to only one-us- as it was unwaveringly authentic and genuine.  For us. Somewhat for them too. In the moment only though.  And thats a very hard pill to swallow as is so much else related to the heart letting go.  And knowing that even the very good, was very flawed, bc it it was not sustainable good.  It was actually like a facade to an extent. But we were fully present and committed and believing.

Thank you for your kind words on my writing and becoming an a

ambassador  here. Its one very positive from this experience.  This site and the support of those here saved me more than words could describe. I am truly beyond appreciation and grateful for that.

"Almost like mother's milk" sounds like almost like an addiction... .

Amazing how I have blacked out so much. Way back in summer 2005 after junior year of college, she would chat with me every evening, then turn me down when it was time to sleep. Next day come back saying "I don't know what it is about you that pulls me in". Fast forward to 2011 to 2014... .same thing... ."you are like a drug. you are like an addiction. i need to stop this addiction. but something about you just pulls me in. i don't know why i keep running back to you". i would be thinking... .I don't want to be an addiction... I just want to be your partner and friend and a companion. A drug and an addiction is a negative connotation and you must keep off of, but what about me makes me a negative choice for you? Is it because your controlling and abusive parents see me as a hell-bound infidel and want their daughter to keep the family's honor? Am I an addiction when they threaten to kill us, or threaten to abandon you if you are disobedient? When you refuse to leave those parents' home, are you addicting to them and use me as your occasional escape, or are you addicted to me and really believe they are the right choice for you... .

what is real? agreeing to marry the guy last month few hours after being with me is going to be a real marriage? or the memories we shared over past decade as a couple, or past 13-14 years as friends... .is that real... .

will she go through with this marriage plan with this new person, or like every single time she has done over the past decade... .come back again for her drug hit... .

It's all addiction... codependency.  For very different and very alike reasons. What is real to the pBPD is whatever is needed in the moment to secure a sense of stable supply and non-abandonment, real or perceived. This is the hard truth on not only why they do, but more importantly why they NEED to move on so fast.

In their projection of us, which is augmented by dissociation as an unconscious yet very real self defense mechanism that takes over, their belief becomes that we ultimately did (as they always knew we would)  abandon them. Why the hate. And the quick need base replacing.

it is a deeply rooted disorder. And exists to deny itself.

CVM your story affects me so much. They could be my exact words. It's the most devastating feeling in the world. I went from being the one he'd waited his whole life for, to being not worthy of any more of his time and was replaced by my best friend. All within minutes. The torturous hell hole I've been in for 5 months nearly killed me, I literally felt like I was walking around murdered.

Thank you for sharing your story. X

That part... .that part about being replaced in minutes! Ughhhh. And it is our fault that they had to leave us and replace us. But I am starting to doubt that they replace us without having thought about it. Most of the times, they have already made up their minds whom to replace us with, then they start a fight, and the end result of every fight is a break up anyway... .and use that excuse to be with the replacement. so devious... .

you know CVM... .so many times I have felt like screaming at her... you don't want a husband, nor do you need a husband, you should just marry your parents because that is exactly what you want in your life... .mommy-daddy. and it comes from her not having any stability... .because of her parents, which causes her to seek them even more for stability. the number of times she has told me that she can't be with me because of financial stability. but what is stability? I am highly educated, with an income, zero debt, and 3-4 years I will reach a point where I can earn 6 figures. But she wants it NOW. that is stability for her. have as many ppl around her as possible. one of her famous quotes is "i am already half crazy. if i live by myself i will go completely crazy". as such at age 30 she has never left home. she doesn't even have her own room or bed. shares one with a sister. sounds crazy to us. but it is security for a pwBPD. marrying me might make her lose family and friends. so i am disposable. moving away from NYC might make her distant from parents, so i am out. yet marrying someone even farther away than me from NYC... .lets see if it goes ahead. as we know, out of sight/out of mind. can they live without their stability (parents) in sight? few months ago she was wondering if he brother and sister in law will care for her when her parents die. I was wondering "damn, she never wants to leave home!" seeing that child-like trait just melts your heart, and add to their cruelty when the BPD traits take over, and we are just left with painful confusion.

My uBPD husband uses the following:

Im sorry

You would be better with out me

Im not a good husband or father

Now he may believe this but he seems to use it as a manipulative tactic where he can claim an inability to take care of an adult task, take the waif position ie victim, and look to me to rescue his helpless self.  It also seems to absolve him from responsibility for his own actions in his mind.  He did not make a mistake, he didnt mean to do what he did and it is due to his make up rather than his decisions.  It makes my skin crawl when I hear it now and causes me to almost enter the leaving your BPD board.

I echo Elessar's and Narellan's words CVM. so touching and something I can definitely relate to. Since I ended the relationship only a week ago I am noticing the void within me again. That feeling that someone is there for me to support me, to believe in me and to adore me has faded (it became sporadic after a year but glimpses were there). That is the role that our caregiver should have played when we were young. I would guess that many of us on here lacked consistent unconditional love and support as children hence we haven't been able to internalise that feeling of safety and look for it elsewhere. Perhaps also why we are drawn to those who provide inconsistent support and love.

Thankfully for me whilst we were together I continued to develop my sense of self and have begun to learn to self soothe so although the void is there I feel no desperate need to fill it with another human being. Having said that I still don't feel that I am immune to his magnetic pull!

So true Pavilion, thank you for your post. It really rings true for me.

Soccerchic, my bf does the exact same thing. He has a child and uses this as an excuse not to contact him more. He also uses this excuse whenever I call his attention to his hability to perform simple tasks like folding his clothes, washing his hands... .etc. It became very rare the occasions when I actually need to say to him these things but when whenever I cant keep it in and (always) calmly tell him... .Its the "im leaving because you deserve more" act. Its frustrating... .

CVM - yes! Your story is heartbreaking, but instinctively I know my ex would be exactly the same. I got all that trash about how he would always be there for me, even if we split and were apart. All I had to do was call him and he'd be there. The times I'd spent coping with things on my own were over. All that stuff. He would be offended when I didn't take him up on it, but honestly I'm a grown-up and good at managing things on my own, so never felt I needed to.

But yes. ONCE I asked for his help. And because I was being split black it was a big fat no. Thinking you have a safety net there and finding out it has holes in it is worse than not having it at all, and yes, can be extremely traumatic. Thankfully I was prepared for a rejection, but if it had been any earlier in my journey I'd have been caught completely off guard.

Again, that was why I asked him what he'd have thought if someone else was treating me the way he had in the past. If no one was allowed to talk badly to me or hurt me, how could he justify doing it himself?

Like I said in another post - he went from wanting to marry me, to within a couple of weeks seemingly not caring if I lived or died. Impossible to rely on; impossible to keep up with.

Suspicious, how hair raising that so many of our stories are nearly identical and heartbreaking.  The level of betrayal is astonishing. And zero accountability.  That is not something I allow the disorder to take blame for.  To exploit another to that depth is beyond wrong.  I would not want to be in those shoes on judgement day. I am quite sorry for your shared experience and pain as I  am for all unfortunate enough  to have been in our situation with a pBPD interaction. Ironic, my ex used to talk so often about suicidal idealization and his constant remark was that he wondered how ppl would feel if he were no longer around. This would break my heart and make me weep, assuring him how valued and loved. As such the thought never crossed my mind in regard to me. What would he do if anything ever happened to me?  I got my answer as he left me for dead. And drove away with out looking back once. Thank you for sharing.

CVM and suspicious... .Our stories are so alike and what makes the grief and loss cycle so difficult in the aftermath of our relationships is trying to make sense of it from our rational minds. Even once we start to believe it was a fantasy, that is irrational to me.

I can only take comfort in knowing I loved him completely and unconditionally and he was unable to accept that. The calmness is coming back into my life after several months of grieving and for me now its just radical acceptance. I will always love him like I've never loved before but I cannot have him in my life anymore. And so I need to do my best everyday to remain no contact. Not just for my sanity, but for his as well.

Peace 

narr and susp , yes our stories are so alike.  Although I understand it most certainly is a disorder it is uncanny that they literally read almost word for word from the same script. There are some things I will attribute to the disorder and some I will not allow that much leniency to. I don't believe it all was a fantasy. I do understand the deep idealization, but fantasies generally are enlaced in with glee. With happy endings.

The incredulous amount of attention and constant effort applied to imploding into our very being while almost dubiously pleading to share ourselves so fully and so safely with them, in a way you can only share once, if ever, in life. And to then ambush and exploit those very safely guarded and private  vulnerabilities with such hate.  I draw the line on disorder vs intent there. Please don't holler at me readers.   

I do understand this is termed a defensive mechanism to protect against perceived abandonment, but that degree of invasion into someone's safe place, the soul place with such warmth and such compassion, and to turn that on you with such vitriol does not get my pass. There really has to be a stop button there being purposefully ignored. If you dont want to be with someone, leave. If you cant own up to why, leave as a coward. None of that is good, but still draws a clean line.

  Its horrific what they do.  They gain your trust and they use it against you in ways no one ever could imagine.  And with zero accountability.  No pass from me on those things. Ill excuse much but not the inexcusable that is reprehensible behavior.

I agree with pretty much all of that. I guess the way I see it is that the idealisation stage wasn't  fantasy, was utterly real to the pwBPD (and it was certainly real to me). The issue is that the hate stage was also utterly real to the pwBPD. Now that, I think, is where the line between the disorder and personal accountability comes in. The disorder made him split; he couldn't help that. But what does one do when they hate someone? You can still hate and be angry, but express that or behave in an ethical way, and I think that is where I start to draw the line.

I too was encouraged to open up in a way I never had before. He encouraged my trust, he encouraged me to rely on him to always be there. He knew this was difficult for me because of being let down so often (since childhood) in the past, so it was a big deal to me. And then when he had all that he stepped aside and let me fall. He elicited trust, and then used information obtained through that trust against me.

I also felt there was a "stop" button that was being ignored. I remember thinking that when I learned about his violent past - that he didn't seem to have the "off switch" that others had to stop them going too far. He just kept on going, way past what was normal, reasonable, humane - whatever. Eventually I learned that his lack of an off switch applied to his emotional violence too. I could be begging with him to stop, just to back off, to let me catch my breath, but he'd keep laying into me with such cruelty. It was like being knocked to the floor and then kicked while I was down there.

So yes, there's hate, which he couldn't help, and there's kindness, which surely could have still be applied to some extent. Like when he found himself in a fight, there was always a point at which he could have walked away. It seemed like he just wanted to push me to a point where I just wouldn't be able to get up again.

Quote "I too was encouraged to open up in a way I never had before. He encouraged my trust, he encouraged me to rely on him to always be there. He knew this was difficult for me because of being let down so often (since childhood) in the past, so it was a big deal to me. And then when he had all that he stepped aside and let me fall. He elicited trust, and then used information obtained through that trust against me. "

Yes. Exactly the same for me.

I too was encouraged to open up in a way I never had before. He encouraged my trust, he encouraged me to rely on him to always be there. He knew this was difficult for me because of being let down so often in the past, so it was a big deal to me. And then when he had all that he stepped aside and let me fall. [/quote]
This to me is abominable and exactly my experience.

My interaction w a pBPD started as a friendship. Lasting a few years prior to becoming a romantic r/s. 

This was a point I continually came back to in therapy.  How could a friend, my friend,  gain all that trust with so much effort in such a loving, accepting way. And then defy and exploit that very deep trust, of their friend, kicking so hard in the most vulnerable areas?

This point alone killed my soul.

My t could not understand why I could not get past that "friend defying a friend thing." Do long standing friends do this to their friends? The things he told me about his life, in the time of our "friendship", I felt very valued and compassionate to know. I completely listened, supported him in the most non judgmental good friend way, and remained openly encouraging.

I was coming off the heels of an emotionally long standing loveless marriage with a cold withholding pNPD. A man who never was present emotionally. He knew how much I value the sanctity of marriage. How loving I am. How hurt I was as a result of much. And how much I tried and the work I applied for years. And that I truly WAS in a good place moving forward. I did my work with my spouse, grieved the marriage fully. And was going forward with no expectations of anything more but to be so thankful I was out of that union. SO HAPPY.SO FREE.So alive. Finally.

How he knew. We spoke about this all as friends would do. Over coffee and such easy occasion. I normally was NOT this type of person, to open up,  but he was SO understanding and SO sensitive, and SO "empathetic", and so wanting to be my friend. So I did open up. Finally. And  I told him my greatest concern moving forward was to protect myself. To honor the strength I had gained in being largely alone in that marriage and still being okay coming out. I was very much looking forward to my well earned peace.

He capitalized on that so much.

He did all of the things my spouse never did for me. The active effort was on overdrive. During idealization. Went to GREAT lengths to do so many incredible things. Oh, the things he did. Too numerous and too endearing and too hurtful now to mention. Constantly. Suggested fully by him. Set up all by him. Truly like a man I had never known before. And he would not let up.

How he talked about the fact he could never be like my ex. He was so hurt and confused why a man would treat me so uncaringly.  He was be founded actually. But, HE, my friend, friends who feel it love, was here now.  And it was US. It always was US. We just had to find each other.

He showed up in every way I wished for and had never experienced. In larger than life, loving, big huge ways.  And even, in my mature control back then, being incredibly intoxicatingly and  flattered, but still able to rationalize. 

He would sob. Big, lovingly, eye to eye, endearing tears. 

Baby, I love you.

It's us.

Please.

I finally found you, and you have found me. God bought us together.

I want to care for you, for us, forever, as no one has ever before.

I yearn for the day we never have to say goodbye and can begin our life together.

It's us. And I am not letting you go. Ever.

I was captivated. But, still in control.

Greatly in love with him by then. Still, leveled, I could keep my reserve. My logical mind was still alive.

I talked with him at length, this man, my friend of years. He knew I loved him and always would. He knew my story. I knew his. But I was in a place of being very happy moving forward. And I needed to work on self protection. And remain in my good mindset.  And to be with my children who mean the world to me. And to continue to do so much in such appreciation and happiness of life. I really was SO happy and so at peace with at that point in my life. And so deserving of it all.

I asked that he, as my friend, respect what I had endured in my marriage and let this situation that was forming between us end. Please. Lets remain the friends we always have been. Please respect me that way.

He looked me straight in the eye and said I was wrong. No way. He could not. Would not. Remain just my friend. I was the love of his life. We finally found each other. And although he knew I could not believe that the goodness I always deserved was finally here, it WAS. It was US. And he simply would not let me go.  Baby, it's us. And our life has just begun.

Oh, how he set me up and let me fall. Like setting up the entire bowling alley of pins and then crashing all those pins down. And just letting the person. The "friend". Fall. Crash really. Overnight it seemed.  All alone by then.

Bc he completely isolated me by then from so much. And left me there, completely alone. And walked away. Sped away actually.

Not without adding an immense smear campaign and removing much of my support system in big ways, through his lies and incredulous well veiled manipulations, that were well believed and unilaterally self protective, of only him, in larger than life ways.  I stood by totally dismayed, shocked, confused, heartbroken, and soul raped in disbelieve. As he appeared like only a rose?

And never, ever once checked back to be sure his "best friend', who had asked repeatedly and poignantly for the same respect I had afforded him, so I could move correctly forward with my life.

Was okay.

CVM I'm sending you so much love and a big hug from across the miles. You beautifully put into words my EXACT story... .My exh of 22 years was bipolar and my marriage was the same as yours. When I met my exBPD I was feeling good, moving forward and had bought a home for me and my 3 boys. I was excited for the future. I was still extremely vulnerable and " damaged" due to my marriage breakdown but the sense of freedom and relief at being out of that union was immense.

Whilst I was only with my BPD for 4 months, we had grown up together and his family had been involved with my family my entire life.

He said " Narellan I've been waiting for you my whole life"

I was head over heels and never happier. I had my family and I had him who felt indeed like my soul mate and I had my best girlfriend to share every thought and feeling with also. She was my best friend particularly since my marriage breakdown. I had known her 20 years.

Within minutes of being told by exBPD that I was forever entwined in his soul he had split me black and leaning on my best friend for support. Which she gave. Which then turned into sending flirty messages and intimate photos to him. I only discovered this by hacking his fb account.

Truly it felt like I was murdered. In the previous few weeks prior to our split I had " honeymooned" holiday with him. Never been happier. But he managed to cause conflict between my parents and sister and I. It was he and I against them. So at the time if the split he replaced me immediately with my best friend and I had no family to turn to, or him, or my best friend. I was isolated completely and left for dead in a very dark place. Without the people on here I wouldn't be here. The betrayal of my two friends I loved with all my heart has damaged me forever.

Yet 5 months on, I'm here. I'm alive and I'm rebuilding.

I will never forget that treatment I received and even though he reaches out to make contact, I'm done.

Peace to you CVM. It's a devastating discovery that humans can behave in such malicious ways. 

Well Narellan, there you have it. Perhaps one of the most unique "similar" BPD stories on this board, yet mine is no where near as cruel as what you have suffered with the devastation of such dual betrayal. All as a result of a disorder. I am sorry and sending you the love as well.

When I read your post, I felt the deepest pain at the loss of your long standing friend.  Friends get us through so much. Especially woman friends. If not for a select few of my own, I may not have endured this experience as well. I may not be here.

And, looking back, I had given my expBPD my very best friend of 20 yrs  cell number at one time. He texted her out of no where one night. She told me this. This surprised me bc it was a night he could not meet me. Yet, he was texting her?

He continually asked for her approval of us. Without even meeting her face to face. I see now that he may have been forming an attachment if she so took the bait. She was no where near that person, thankfully.  She stood by me for the duration of my 20 plus yr emotionally empty marriage as I did her in much of life. And she was as happy as I was when I gained my release from that r/s.

And, she was the only one who stood up to my exBPD, after he annihilated me. She had watched it all, as he involved her in it all even not "knowing" her, and she told him just who she thought he was.  She was the only one who did.  I will forever be thankful for that act of solidarity in knowing me and protecting me. ANd caring for me. To this day, she got me through my marriage and the BPD r/s destruction.

My expBPD isolated me from everyone else. He always wanted me to stay home, even if he was not able to be with me, he somehow manipulated me into avoiding social occasions under the guise it was our time. He invaded that time, even by text. Constant texting if I were with others. Family, friends, anyone.  He even interrupted my r/s with my children to an extent which just is shameful looking back. He required so much of me. And would invade any opportunity I had with my family or my children with his constant texting, requests to meet, his constant interruptions laced in deep love and caring. I regret so much. I was fooled and so full of caregiving and elated with his love. Bc you see, it was me he had always been looking for and never found.

 

I want to tell you how strong you are Narellian. You are doing an incredible amount of work to stay NC and to learn so much here. We are very glad you are here with us, in this incredible supportive BPD family.  And you are one strong, admirable, and very worthwhile person. Yes, it is a devastating discovery that humans can behave in such malicious ways. Glad we are not one of them 

We fell down hard, didn't we?  But, look at us. Still standing. Look at the good, loving good ppl we still are that no one could ever change. Look at our children, that incredible valuable cherished good we still have. Look at how we can move forward and grow and learn so much about that which we didn't even know we needed to learn.

Look at this through the eyes of someone who does not have BPD. Grateful eyes. We are slowing getting ourselves back. Life is going to be good again. Even better than good. Full. Tell yourself that as I do. Take care of yourself in new ways.  Give back the disorder and all it bequest on you. Give it back, where it belongs. We didn't get this chance at new life for not. I refuse to give all that I am over to a pBPD. Who has no right to have that degree of me. My essence. My good. I refuse. I will through this. I will do my work.  I will value those that have always meant the most. And get to not only the better, but the best place in life.  I know it. You can too! You already have done so much 

We fell 53 times and but we got up 54!  Let's keep walking ahead. Let's leave the disorder behind and give it back to the host, who will continue to live an empty life, based on dysfunctional patterns, based in shame. Never knowing real love or real happiness. Aren't we fortunate that we can know real happiness and real love?

We know better now. We will do better. It will take us all a different amount of time and inner work, but keep walking ahead with us Narellin, one day at a time. And stay strong! You are doing a great job!

Thank you so much CVM... .Everything you have said is true. Everything you have said shows me how empowered I am now to be free of this. I am determined to stay free of the chaos both of them are trying to inflict on me.

Your friend is a true friend. I was that friend to both of them. I stood up for them both and defended them many times. I expected her to be there for me, and to call him out of his bad treatment of me. She always bagged him and always said shed be there for me through it all.

She wasn't. She was too caught up in being put on his pedestal.

When people show you their true colors don't try to repaint them. I have learned so much and I am better and more wiser for the experience. 

Oh my goodness, we have such similar stories. My exBPD wasn't a friend beforehand, but I did get together with him at the end of an abusive marriage with someone who had some NPD traits and was quite cold to me emotionally. The exbf was like a bandage over all those wounds. Love-bombing me when I'd been neglected, promising protection when I'd been stalked and abused.

I can see why I was susceptible to it all, and why it all felt so *necessary*. And why the ending of it has been so terrifying. All I can do is hope that I'm never again as vulnerable as I was back then when he found me, and that I never again fall for the cruelty of a knight in shining armour.

Hugs to you both xxx

oohh, yeah. in fact, i've coined a term for this it's so common:

The Classic BPD Breakup-2-Hookup Technique^{TM C}

*)

Goldylamont that is so true! A great phrase. I realise now my exBPD did it frequently. After wed been seeing each other only a couple of weeks he told me his exgf was coming to stay, that had been arranged prior to meeting me and she was just friends with him now. I was with him the night before her arrival, he no longer wanted her to come. I said I'll talk to him in a couple of weeks but will give him space. Within hours of her arrival the following day he picked a massive fight with me via text which was all lies and deleted me from fb and said we are done. Two weeks later a day after the exgf flew home he was back begging forgiveness and declaring love. And lying saying they hadn't been intimate which he later recounted but I didn't care as we were separated.

He then gave me ST 3 times during the next 4 months and remained in contact with my best friend who he ultimately ditched me for... .It is so obvious now. At the time I was so confused because all the lies and blame he put on trivial little things I'd done. I questioned myself constantly about how I contributed to all these ST. When in actual fact I was just being push/ pulled and he was running free.

Your phrase makes total sense to me. It shifts the shame for him if we weren't together.

I have heard that phrase several times in different forms.  While we were dating I heard, "I don't want to hurt you", "I always hurt people", "I just want to move away from everyone", and then just recently after I got dumped and several months of no communication had passed and I got an apology and I was dumb enough to start talking to her again, and we got close again, I heard, "I can't kiss because I don't want to mess with other's emotions" before I got pushed away again.