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Title: Are there red flags about us? Post by: elessar on August 16, 2014, 10:31:44 AM I've been wondering... .when my ex came back after 4 yrs in late 2010, she started dumping all her problems about her parental abuse on me. I was her knight. I did not see the red-flag but my friends did. within a couple of weeks of her being back, the stories she would tell me and i would be talking about it with my friends, they all saw something is wrong and told me to stay away. i've spent all these years wondering how did i miss it.
to the main point - moving forward it is imperative for me to know the girl's history so i do not miss any crazy red-flag . for example, my ex's soon be to finance agreed to marry her as an arranged marriage because she is a successful dentist and quite beautiful, after knowing her long distance for a month or so. he is missing a ton of red-flag , including that she was sleeping with me and wanting to marry me while their marriage talk was going on. i don't want to be that guy in the future with another woman. but if i must know a woman's past, she must know mine. and me being stuck up over my ex for half my life... .isn't that a huge red-flag? i would wonder the same thing... .why did this guy (meaning myself) tolerate all that manipulative and abusive behavior? Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: .cup.car on August 16, 2014, 10:52:05 AM why did this guy tolerate all that manipulative and abusive behavior? because she is quite beautiful BPD girls live in an unfortunate state of arrested development, as if you took a perpetually hormonal 12 year old and gave it the body and power of an adult. This is an especially dangerous combination because attractive girls, no matter how crazy, are essentially allowed to get away with anything in our society. These girls will be incredible manipulators and will turn people against you, since there is never a shortage of white knights ready to assuage a pretty girl's perceived distress. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: pieceofme on August 16, 2014, 11:15:11 AM i know i tolerated manipulative and abusive behavior that i would NEVER accept from someone else. i think we overlook the red flags because we love them. we would do anything to "save" them. we keep thinking that if we stand by them, they will realize how much we love them and maybe they will change.
Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Bak86 on August 16, 2014, 11:16:26 AM i know i tolerated manipulative and abusive behavior that i would NEVER accept from someone else. i think we overlook the red flags because we love them. we would do anything to "save" them. we keep thinking that if we stand by them, they will realize how much we love them and maybe they will change. pretty much this Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Infared on August 16, 2014, 11:41:56 AM why did this guy tolerate all that manipulative and abusive behavior? because she is quite beautiful BPD girls live in an unfortunate state of arrested development, as if you took a perpetually hormonal 12 year old and gave it the body and power of an adult. This is an especially dangerous combination because attractive girls, no matter how crazy, are essentially allowed to get away with anything in our society. These girls will be incredible manipulators and will turn people against you, since there is never a shortage of white knights ready to assuage a pretty girl's perceived distress. Amen to that truth. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: winston72 on August 16, 2014, 01:01:08 PM As to "red flags" about yourself, what needs and desires are/were you fulfilling by seeking to take care of your ex? From reading some of your earlier posts, it seems like you enjoyed the role of her white knight and that you took a kind of pride in being able to show patience and tolerance toward her while subordinating your own feelings. I wonder if the "red flag" designation is more helpful to understand how you set yourself up for dissatisfaction in a relationship rather than being a point of disqualification for you with another person.
Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Tausk on August 16, 2014, 01:16:53 PM I wrote the below before about people who might date me now.
The red-flag red-flag were too numerous to count. And yes, it helps to know that we all have the same patterns. But how does that knowledge help me to detach? :)oes it mean all the fault is with my ex? :)oes it mean that my ex is sick, and that I'm the one that is OK? The people who date me will cite: red-flag - obsessive about crzy ex after years apart red-flag- so pathetic that his family and friends won't even listen to him talk about ex anymore. red-flag - denial and unaware of FOO issues red-flag- maladaptive schemas red-flag- can't change red-flag - self centered red-flag - altruistic/closet narcissist red-flag - reads messages on boards written by BPD's when he says he's not BPD red-flag - filled with shame red-flag - lack of self esteem red-flag - is a billion times better at complaining about others than fixing himself. red-flag - blames long ago ex for problems today and plays vicitm red-flag - won't get deeply into therapy red-flag - ruminates over and over and over and thinks it's others people fault red-flag - is angry all the time because it was someone else's fault red-flag - still live in fantasy world about bat sht crazy ex red-flag - has never lived up to potential red-flag - has mommy/daddy issues red-flag - prone to bouts of depression red-flag- can't depersonalize an interaction with a severely mentally ill person red-flag - LIVES THROUGH A FALSE SENSE OF SELF red-flag - ... . It's good for me to know that I'm not alone. It's good for me to see the red-flag's for self awareness. It's good to understand that it's a part of the pattern of interaction with the Disorder. But, The above only matters if I can turn it around and use the information to help me look at myself. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Blimblam on August 16, 2014, 02:06:32 PM Good point tausk. I think it is important to realize that we probably shouldn't date until we have healed and there is nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: winston72 on August 16, 2014, 02:46:14 PM Hey Tausk! Other than those red flags, everything is cool!
Well, you are certainly self aware, if not a bit harsh on yourself. I think my list is just as long as yours, with just a change in some of the topics. I have learned a lot about myself through understanding more of how my ex behaved. I was a compliment to many of her behaviors and I have also come to see many similar patterns and attitudes within myself that I found so hurtful in her. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: tired-of-it-all on August 16, 2014, 05:58:02 PM I have thought about this issue a lot. It is obvious that the BPD smells a sucker. They can certainly smell me. I believe that it is similar to a really dishonest used car salesman.
When we are young and don't know better, the dishonest salesman can smell blood and take advantage of us. As we get older, we learn how to read the signs, how to not believe the sales pitch, how to do business without getting screwed. The dishonest salesman makes us believe in something that really doesn't exist. He makes us believe the car will make us feel special. He makes us believe that he cares about us. He makes us feel sorry for him and feel that we need to help him by agreeing to his deal. It is similar with the BPD relationship. I feel sorry for her. I think she cares about me. I think she is the answer to all my life's emotional needs. None of that is true. She doesn't care about me. She just wants to get what she wants. I need to grow up emotionally. I need to learn that this type of person is bad for me. I need to accept that she is a con-man and a lying piece of s**t. I need to learn that she will be fine without me and that I am only being used and used up. I learned it with the dishonest care salesman to the point that I don't buy my cars from people like that. I need to learn a similar lesson in my personal relationships. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: pieceofme on August 16, 2014, 06:08:15 PM I have thought about this issue a lot. It is obvious that the BPD smells a sucker. They can certainly smell me. I believe that it is similar to a really dishonest used car salesman. When we are young and don't know better, the dishonest salesman can smell blood and take advantage of us. As we get older, we learn how to read the signs, how to not believe the sales pitch, how to do business without getting screwed. The dishonest salesman makes us believe in something that really doesn't exist. He makes us believe the car will make us feel special. He makes us believe that he cares about us. He makes us feel sorry for him and feel that we need to help him by agreeing to his deal. It is similar with the BPD relationship. I feel sorry for her. I think she cares about me. I think she is the answer to all my life's emotional needs. None of that is true. She doesn't care about me. She just wants to get what she wants. I need to grow up emotionally. I need to learn that this type of person is bad for me. I need to accept that she is a con-man and a lying piece of s**t. I need to learn that she will be fine without me and that I am only being used and used up. I learned it with the dishonest care salesman to the point that I don't buy my cars from people like that. I need to learn a similar lesson in my personal relationships. what a perfect analogy! Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: winston72 on August 16, 2014, 06:29:54 PM Tired of it All! Great metaphor! Really helpful. And I, like so many people, want to be sold, want to believe what I am being sold... .I am a willing, even eager participant in the sell... .even the con. And the path forward is not to convince to used car salesman to change their style of business or burn endless energy convincing them their way of doing business is wrong... .it is to understand ourselves, why we believed it all... .and then shop elsewhere!
Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Huh? on August 16, 2014, 11:13:20 PM i know i tolerated manipulative and abusive behavior that i would NEVER accept from someone else. i think we overlook the red flags because we love them. we would do anything to "save" them. we keep thinking that if we stand by them, they will realize how much we love them and maybe they will change. yeah, this. Its romantic idealism at its worst. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Lolster on August 17, 2014, 06:36:24 AM I have thought about this issue a lot. It is obvious that the BPD smells a sucker. They can certainly smell me. I believe that it is similar to a really dishonest used car salesman. When we are young and don't know better, the dishonest salesman can smell blood and take advantage of us. As we get older, we learn how to read the signs, how to not believe the sales pitch, how to do business without getting screwed. The dishonest salesman makes us believe in something that really doesn't exist. He makes us believe the car will make us feel special. He makes us believe that he cares about us. He makes us feel sorry for him and feel that we need to help him by agreeing to his deal. It is similar with the BPD relationship. I feel sorry for her. I think she cares about me. I think she is the answer to all my life's emotional needs. None of that is true. She doesn't care about me. She just wants to get what she wants. I need to grow up emotionally. I need to learn that this type of person is bad for me. I need to accept that she is a con-man and a lying piece of s**t. I need to learn that she will be fine without me and that I am only being used and used up. I learned it with the dishonest care salesman to the point that I don't buy my cars from people like that. I need to learn a similar lesson in my personal relationships. This! Whilst it's good to reflect on what we could improve about ourselves, over thinking "What is wrong with us?" still places the blame on us for someone else's behaviour. I had a good T who worked with the criminally insane and he made it clear to me that the manipulation of these kind of people leave us with a deer/rabbit caught in the headlights effect: Definition of like a deer or rabbit in the headlights: like a deer (or rabbit) in the headlights Used to refer to a state of fear, panic, or confusion so extreme that it is impossible to act or think normally: ‘faced with too many choices and not enough real information, we are like deer caught in the headlights’ ‘his deer-in-the-headlights expression’ We need to recognise and then flee those headlights. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: BorisAcusio on August 17, 2014, 08:30:25 AM Hey Tausk! Other than those red flags, everything is cool! Well, you are certainly self aware, if not a bit harsh on yourself. I think my list is just as long as yours, with just a change in some of the topics. I have learned a lot about myself through understanding more of how my ex behaved. I was a compliment to many of her behaviors and I have also come to see many similar patterns and attitudes within myself that I found so hurtful in her. I found the same traits in myself that Tausk highlighted. Those are running just as deep as the pwBPDs own problems, and that's why the disordered fantasy was so incredibly rewarding, despite all the lying, cheating and devaluation. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Stjarna on August 17, 2014, 10:32:31 AM i know i tolerated manipulative and abusive behavior that i would NEVER accept from someone else. i think we overlook the red flags because we love them. we would do anything to "save" them. we keep thinking that if we stand by them, they will realize how much we love them and maybe they will change. Yes, this about hits the nail on the head. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Stjarna on August 17, 2014, 10:43:44 AM I have thought about this issue a lot. It is obvious that the BPD smells a sucker. They can certainly smell me. I believe that it is similar to a really dishonest used car salesman. When we are young and don't know better, the dishonest salesman can smell blood and take advantage of us. As we get older, we learn how to read the signs, how to not believe the sales pitch, how to do business without getting screwed. The dishonest salesman makes us believe in something that really doesn't exist. He makes us believe the car will make us feel special. He makes us believe that he cares about us. He makes us feel sorry for him and feel that we need to help him by agreeing to his deal. It is similar with the BPD relationship. I feel sorry for her. I think she cares about me. I think she is the answer to all my life's emotional needs. None of that is true. She doesn't care about me. She just wants to get what she wants. I need to grow up emotionally. I need to learn that this type of person is bad for me. I need to accept that she is a con-man and a lying piece of s**t. I need to learn that she will be fine without me and that I am only being used and used up. I learned it with the dishonest care salesman to the point that I don't buy my cars from people like that. I need to learn a similar lesson in my personal relationships. Thank you for this. In addition to it ringing so true, I even got a little laugh over it this morning because my ex actually was a car salesman, a very high-selling one at that. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: hergestridge on August 17, 2014, 10:53:53 AM If someone sees "has not lived up to his full potential" as a red flag, then that person must be a scientologist or something. Don't we all have some work left to do on ourselves?
The thing that I find it hardest to explain (and which I assume ppl would see as a kind of "red flag" is why I stayed in a relationship with a mentally ill person for 20 years, had a child with with her towards the end of that relationship, and that the relationship was ended on her initiative. I am afraid that it will look like I have a much bigger problem than I in fact have. People in general have absolutely no knowledge of BPD, but giving someone a lesson on your ex wive's psychiatric diagnosis is not the way to charm the pants of someone. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: willtimeheal on August 17, 2014, 11:01:34 AM Tired of it All! Great metaphor! Really helpful. And I, like so many people, want to be sold, want to believe what I am being sold... .I am a willing, even eager participant in the sell... .even the con. And the path forward is not to convince to used car salesman to change their style of business or burn endless energy convincing them their way of doing business is wrong... .it is to understand ourselves, why we believed it all... .and then shop elsewhere! Understanding ourselves is the key. It is really easy to blame the BPD. Really easy. The hardest to do is to look internally at ourselves and take a good look at why we were willing to believe the sell or con. We believed it for a reason... .we can't blame the BPD for that. It's easy to blame someone else. I know once I stopped blaming my BPD and really looked at myself I was able to find answers and honestly my "issues" and why I fell for the "con" were there long before I ever met my BPD. Throwing blame is an easy way out. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: hergestridge on August 17, 2014, 11:37:02 AM Tired of it All! Great metaphor! Really helpful. And I, like so many people, want to be sold, want to believe what I am being sold... .I am a willing, even eager participant in the sell... .even the con. And the path forward is not to convince to used car salesman to change their style of business or burn endless energy convincing them their way of doing business is wrong... .it is to understand ourselves, why we believed it all... .and then shop elsewhere! Understanding ourselves is the key. It is really easy to blame the BPD. Really easy. The hardest to do is to look internally at ourselves and take a good look at why we were willing to believe the sell or con. We believed it for a reason... .we can't blame the BPD for that. It's easy to blame someone else. I know once I stopped blaming my BPD and really looked at myself I was able to find answers and honestly my "issues" and why I fell for the "con" were there long before I ever met my BPD. Throwing blame is an easy way out. We believed it for several reasons I'd say. There is not one reason why a person choses to stay with a pwBPD as a "non". There are several possible scenarios. Let's look at it this way; one of the main reasons I did not get out of my 20 year relationship was that I consistently refused to throw blame where it would have appropriate to do so. Once I started doing so my relationship began to crack. I understod the problems quite early on and what I (and most of us) dealt with is a person who alters between dysfunction and normalcy. I was given the information by both my wife and health professionals for *years* that the problem was treatable and things were going to be just fine. And then of course a lot of the things I had to endure - I was told I was imagining, or exaggerating. I was manipulated financially, with threats of suiciced, I was isolated from my friends. I did *a lot* of things to keep that from happening. I did try to pull the plug , call her bluff and end the relationship when nothing else seemed to work out but then I was gaslighted or simply ignored. Looking back I used to think I had a lot more "issues" than I turned out to have, something my wife used against me. pwBPD are experts at thinking their issues are our issues. I don't know if it's helpful for a person in a breakup from a BPD relationship to just state that "we have issues before we even met them", because we don't know which these issues are, how big these issues are of even if there are any. Some people are simply just "in it for life" types (for religious or other reasons) who end up in BPD relationships. Post-breakup those people may be more helped by finding out what the ___ just happened. That's the process I'm in now, even though my rs was 20 years! I certainly did not "fall for" my wife in any way. It was a chance meeting and I had just decided that if I met a girl that wanted to stay with me forever, then I would stay with her forever. Childish and romantic, I know. But it's nothing do with being pre-desitned for "falling for" a certain type of woman. I realise that there may be a pattern of people in similiar situations, but it's not like that for everybody. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Infared on August 17, 2014, 04:20:01 PM Tired of it All! Great metaphor! Really helpful. And I, like so many people, want to be sold, want to believe what I am being sold... .I am a willing, even eager participant in the sell... .even the con. And the path forward is not to convince to used car salesman to change their style of business or burn endless energy convincing them their way of doing business is wrong... .it is to understand ourselves, why we believed it all... .and then shop elsewhere! Understanding ourselves is the key. It is really easy to blame the BPD. Really easy. The hardest to do is to look internally at ourselves and take a good look at why we were willing to believe the sell or con. We believed it for a reason... .we can't blame the BPD for that. It's easy to blame someone else. I know once I stopped blaming my BPD and really looked at myself I was able to find answers and honestly my "issues" and why I fell for the "con" were there long before I ever met my BPD. Throwing blame is an easy way out. What you are saying has a ton of validity... .BUT... .I you are in a relationship being honest, trusting and faithful (I didn't say perfect but you are showing up with all the big stuff), and the other person is lying, cheating and deceiving (regardless if the person is mentally ill) ... . There is no reason to put the failure of the relationship on your shoulders and I also think some blame can be laid. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: willtimeheal on August 17, 2014, 05:21:54 PM Tired of it All! Great metaphor! Really helpful. And I, like so many people, want to be sold, want to believe what I am being sold... .I am a willing, even eager participant in the sell... .even the con. And the path forward is not to convince to used car salesman to change their style of business or burn endless energy convincing them their way of doing business is wrong... .it is to understand ourselves, why we believed it all... .and then shop elsewhere! Understanding ourselves is the key. It is really easy to blame the BPD. Really easy. The hardest to do is to look internally at ourselves and take a good look at why we were willing to believe the sell or con. We believed it for a reason... .we can't blame the BPD for that. It's easy to blame someone else. I know once I stopped blaming my BPD and really looked at myself I was able to find answers and honestly my "issues" and why I fell for the "con" were there long before I ever met my BPD. Throwing blame is an easy way out. What you are saying has a ton of validity... .BUT... .I you are in a relationship being honest, trusting and faithful (I didn't say perfect but you are showing up with all the big stuff), and the other person is lying, cheating and deceiving (regardless if the person is mentally ill) ... . There is no reason to put the failure of the relationship on your shoulders and I also think some blame can be laid. Infrared... .I agree. They are just as responsible for the relationship failing as we are. Yes they need to take up their share of the responsibility. What I am saying is after she lied and cheated the first time ... .why did I stay? In any other relationship I would have walked away. That was my responsibility to walk.compass the first time and I didn't. I stayed in the cycle. We all did. Why? For those answers you have to look internally. You can't blame the BPD because you stayed. That was our choice. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: elessar on August 17, 2014, 05:44:16 PM ... .why did I stay? In any other relationship I would have walked away. I stayed in the cycle. Why? And that is what I am wondering about myself. Well I have part of the answer - extreme romantic idealism like "first love should be the only love to last forever". Also, "I can rescue her and be her knight who took her away from a miserable life and gave her happiness." But I also think I stayed because I was blamed for it not working. She had turned me down a lot over the years and I never went after her. I respected her hundred No and kept my distance. She came after me every time. But what really changed the dynamics a few years back was that she started blaming me why we aren't working. Bogus reasons or complete lies or unrealistic expectations that no one could meet. But I also stayed trying to show her that I am not that person she is making me out to be. And once I understood BPD, after trying for a few months I stopped trying to show I am not who she makes me when she splits me black. And that not walking away after first few months of abuse is on me. To let it go for years, I allowed it to happen to me. I tell everyone else to walk away if they are abused. Heck, I pushed her away a bit because of the number of times I told her to walk away from her abusive family. But just like she goes running after them hoping they will change, I went running after her hoping she will change. And that's on me. The advice I gave her is the advice I didn't take for myself. It doesn't diminish anything she has ever done, but it has got to be somewhat of a red-flag about myself... . Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: willtimeheal on August 17, 2014, 07:12:17 PM ... .why did I stay? In any other relationship I would have walked away. I stayed in the cycle. Why? And that is what I am wondering about myself. Well I have part of the answer - extreme romantic idealism like "first love should be the only love to last forever". Also, "I can rescue her and be her knight who took her away from a miserable life and gave her happiness." But I also think I stayed because I was blamed for it not working. She had turned me down a lot over the years and I never went after her. I respected her hundred No and kept my distance. She came after me every time. But what really changed the dynamics a few years back was that she started blaming me why we aren't working. Bogus reasons or complete lies or unrealistic expectations that no one could meet. But I also stayed trying to show her that I am not that person she is making me out to be. And once I understood BPD, after trying for a few months I stopped trying to show I am not who she makes me when she splits me black. And that not walking away after first few months of abuse is on me. To let it go for years, I allowed it to happen to me. I tell everyone else to walk away if they are abused. Heck, I pushed her away a bit because of the number of times I told her to walk away from her abusive family. But just like she goes running after them hoping they will change, I went running after her hoping she will change. And that's on me. The advice I gave her is the advice I didn't take for myself. It doesn't diminish anything she has ever done, but it has got to be somewhat of a red-flag about myself... . The part about her abusive family hit home. Her family is so SO toxic. She knows this and her therapist has told her she must limit the contact with them. Her response... .your family is your family no matter how dysfunctional. I could never walk away. She has a very weird relationship with her brother and she always says I will never understand it. Now I am wondering if I want to... .I don't think I want to know what has happened between them. She won't ever leave to toxic family due to their abandonment issues so she will never leave the cycle of abuse. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: elessar on August 17, 2014, 07:19:53 PM your family is your family "Your family is your family, even if they kill you." or "That is their way of showing love and care". If I got a penny for every time I heard that... . And seeing her getting so freaking close to her family over the last few months is burning a hole in my heart. It hurts even more than her abandoning me. It hurts even more than her getting married. Because it is like I gave her everything and I "lost". All they have done is abuse and control her, and they "won". Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: maternal on August 17, 2014, 07:25:30 PM Because it is like I gave her everything and I "lost". All they have done is abuse and control her, and they "won". I know that this isn't technically meant to be taken literally, but that all looks like a no-win situation to me. For anyone involved. You're the one who truly won because you got away from that FUBAR'ed situation. You gotta recognize your win in this situation, no matter how much it hurts. I know this pain, but I won when I got out, and I continue to win every moment that I stay out. And so do you. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: mywifecrazy on August 17, 2014, 07:51:58 PM red-flag- so pathetic that his family and friends won't even listen to him talk about ex anymore. My God this is me and I HAVE TO STOP! I can see family and friends getting tired when I go on and on about her crazy behavior. OK she's CRAZY WE GET IT. I need to start practicing NC with my thoughts! MWC... .*) Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Huh? on August 17, 2014, 07:52:11 PM I dont know how many times I had to hold and hold my crying uBPD waif ex fiance because of some abuse performed on her by toxic family. My advice to her, was to keep them at arms length... .but try and maintain a relationship with them from a distance... .trying to give healthy advice.
One by one, I was cut off and deleted on FB by her family members. And now she has done the same to me. Poof, its all gone! Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: pieceofme on August 17, 2014, 08:03:47 PM red-flag- so pathetic that his family and friends won't even listen to him talk about ex anymore. My God this is me and I HAVE TO STOP! I can see family and friends getting tired when I go on and on about her crazy behavior. OK she's CRAZY WE GET IT. I need to start practicing NC with my thoughts! MWC... .*) sadly, i'm in the same boat! Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Infared on August 17, 2014, 09:26:56 PM Tired of it All! Great metaphor! Really helpful. And I, like so many people, want to be sold, want to believe what I am being sold... .I am a willing, even eager participant in the sell... .even the con. And the path forward is not to convince to used car salesman to change their style of business or burn endless energy convincing them their way of doing business is wrong... .it is to understand ourselves, why we believed it all... .and then shop elsewhere! Understanding ourselves is the key. It is really easy to blame the BPD. Really easy. The hardest to do is to look internally at ourselves and take a good look at why we were willing to believe the sell or con. We believed it for a reason... .we can't blame the BPD for that. It's easy to blame someone else. I know once I stopped blaming my BPD and really looked at myself I was able to find answers and honestly my "issues" and why I fell for the "con" were there long before I ever met my BPD. Throwing blame is an easy way out. What you are saying has a ton of validity... .BUT... .I you are in a relationship being honest, trusting and faithful (I didn't say perfect but you are showing up with all the big stuff), and the other person is lying, cheating and deceiving (regardless if the person is mentally ill) ... . There is no reason to put the failure of the relationship on your shoulders and I also think some blame can be laid. Infrared... .I agree. They are just as responsible for the relationship failing as we are. Yes they need to take up their share of the responsibility. What I am saying is after she lied and cheated the first time ... .why did I stay? In any other relationship I would have walked away. That was my responsibility to walk.compass the first time and I didn't. I stayed in the cycle. We all did. Why? For those answers you have to look internally. You can't blame the BPD because you stayed. That was our choice. That is not part of my story. She was cheating on me and ran off a week before Christmas lying, and left me in our home feeding her cats and putting up a Christmas tree by myself... .I was not even sure for a while... .they are excellent cheats especially to descent people... .they take your kindness and trust as stupidity. THEIR LOSS. I went into therapy after she left... .yes... I was devastated... .a year later with great pressure from me she indirectly related that I was correct, that she had cheated. It was a smug indirect reference. Their was no direct admission or any apology. When I was told this I told her that she was not the person that she had presented to me and to stay out of my life. I have never talked to her since although she has tried on numerous occasions to make contact with me. I attribute my resolve to hard work with a good therapist. I was a good guy, and I refuse to beat myself up for her horrible behavior. That is what I hold onto for sanity... .my good behavior. I worked thru the breakup like a dignified mature adult, albeit in a lot of emotional pain... .she acted like a spoiled 7th grader as did her new Bo. Their behavior hurt me deeply at that time, but now that I am distanced from it, I can see it was cruely pathetic. Truly. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: myself on August 17, 2014, 09:47:40 PM I'm with you, Infared. There's little to no 50/50 in most of the stories here.
When any r/s falls apart, one person is usually more the reason why. These aren't normal interactions. The dishonesty, for one, is entrenched. BPD is hungry for relationships. It devours them and sh!ts them out. Again and again and again. It can't help it. And it also chooses not to. Being honest with ourselves shows us who we were, are, and can be. If you're sure you did your best, you did. Be proud of that. Keep doing it. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Tausk on August 17, 2014, 10:09:19 PM I'm with you, Infared. There's little to no 50/50 in most of the stories here. When any r/s falls apart, one person is usually more the reason why. These aren't normal interactions. The dishonesty, for one, is entrenched. BPD is hungry for relationships. It devours them and sh!ts them out. Again and again and again. It can't help it. And it also chooses not to. Being honest with ourselves shows us who we were, are, and can be. If you're sure you did your best, you did. Be proud of that. Keep doing it. And this is where I disagree with you and Infared. Yes, our exes were manipulative, lying, con artists whose actions are sociopathic. But I need to take equal responsibility because I invited the Disorder into my life. Example: If I walk into a blind alley in a very dangerous part of the city, in the middle of the night, and I start to yell that I have a lot of cash on me... .Whose fault is it that I was robbed. Same thing with being swindled. Swindlers will tell you that they don't just target everyone. They target people who want what they have to offer. And then it's just a matter of mirroring, projection and execution. My ex mirrored my idealized self, projected what I believed to be love, and I invited the Disorder into my life. It's like Vampires. They can only come in when invited. I invited the Vampire in. But I can rescind that invitation. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: myself on August 17, 2014, 10:28:03 PM It's like Vampires. They can only come in when invited. I invited the Vampire in. But I can rescind that invitation. Did you know she was a vampire when you let her in? That sounds truly ghastly. Why would you have done that? I didn't. When I started to see it, I tried making sense of it. Tried to help her, because I loved and cared for her. Tried to get out, but found I was addicted. Looked in the mirror, saw I wasn't one myself, and finally woke up. I also didn't go looking to get mugged. It was more of an ambush. You may have played more of a role in your r/s troubles than others. Every story here is different, despite certain similarities. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Tausk on August 17, 2014, 10:40:54 PM It's like Vampires. They can only come in when invited. I invited the Vampire in. But I can rescind that invitation. Did you know she was a vampire when you let her in? That sounds truly ghastly. Why would you have done that? I didn't. When I started to see it, I tried making sense of it. Tried to help her, because I loved and cared for her. Tried to get out, but found I was addicted. Looked in the mirror, saw I wasn't one myself, and finally woke up. I also didn't go looking to get mugged. It was more of an ambush. You may have played more of a role in your r/s troubles than others. Every story here is different, despite certain similarities. Absolutely true. But the fact is that by the time all the really bad stuff was occurring, I should have been gone literally years ago. But I chose to stay. And my growth and self respect and understanding comes from determining why I chose to stay. Why I let myself lose myself to the Disorder. Why I invited the Disorder into my life. No, I did not know it was the Disorder. But I was vulnerable to the Disorder for some very distinct reasons. The patterns on this board are so disturbingly similar. And the prescribed behavior for recovery is self reflection. So I have to assume that my recovery also fits the patterns and follow the advice. Otherwise, I remain a victim for the rest of my life. And in reality, I was a volunteer. Altruistic/Closet Narcissism is still Narcissism. But it can be treated. Be well. T Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Caredverymuch on August 17, 2014, 10:51:16 PM It's like Vampires. They can only come in when invited. I invited the Vampire in. But I can rescind that invitation. Did you know she was a vampire when you let her in? That sounds truly ghastly. Why would you have done that? I didn't. When I started to see it, I tried making sense of it. Tried to help her, because I loved and cared for her. Tried to get out, but found I was addicted. Looked in the mirror, saw I wasn't one myself, and finally woke up. I also didn't go looking to get mugged. It was more of an ambush. You may have played more of a role in your r/s troubles than others. Every story here is different, despite certain similarities. Myself, this is very much my story. Almost word for word. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: myself on August 17, 2014, 10:52:51 PM None of us are 100% victim, or unaccountable.
But also, vulnerable doesn't always equal culpable. Self reflection is key. And then of course the follow through. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Caredverymuch on August 17, 2014, 10:57:45 PM None of us are 100% victim, or unaccountable. But also, vulnerable doesn't always equal culpable. Self reflection is key. And then of course the follow through. More good insight, myself. And to go from being vulnerable, as our ex's so heavily portrayed themselves to be, to us here being left culpable for our caring is hard. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Tausk on August 17, 2014, 11:16:17 PM None of us are 100% victim, or unaccountable. But also, vulnerable doesn't always equal culpable. Self reflection is key. And then of course the follow through. Vulnerable doesn't always equal culpable. But in my case is it at least partially responsible. My lack of self esteem often is reflected in my desire to help. If I can rescue, I am worthy. If I can rescue and be loved, I am worthy of being loved. And this is part of the pain of being abandoned. I have to move to point of: I am worthy of being loved. No conditional "if" in the front of that statement. I don't believe that we are that far apart. I just know for me, and by observing others on the board, taking a "victim" position on this board is one of the maladaptive modes of ex partners that keeps us stuck. Many partners don't recovery from the interaction. Their lives are forever damaged by the Disorder. Being a perpetual victim is a possible consequence. And even dabbling in self pitying victimology can be very dangerous for me. I can easily move into that mode, because that relieves me of the responsibility of leaning into my pain. Boo Hoo... .I can't do anything about my pain because it was all her fault. And to rephrase, No didn't know that she was a Vampire when I invited her into my life, but I sure as heck knew that she wasn't real. And deep down I knew that she had no reflection in a mirror, because she was the mirror. I was just so lonely that I was willing to believe the fantasy had come to life. Just like my child fantasies. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Turkish on August 18, 2014, 01:35:19 AM What are red flags... .those a propective partner might see in us? Most, if not all, of us, are Rescuers, even white Knights. Our bonds with pwBPD are understandable. Mine was not the first, though the only new I'll ever have kids with.
So is it anything obvious? No. Not really. I've been told by healthy women that I'm "good with girls." red-flag maybe. Speaking for myself, I've always been attracted to unhealthy women. I exorcised them from my life, then met uBPDx, and forgot. Entered into the typical r/s which we all know. So what is my red-flag? Nothing obvious at all. My mm recently revealed to me that she was unofficially diagnosed with BPD over 20 years ago. Mind. Blown. I wish she had told me that years ago, but it may have made no difference. Can I split? Yes. Do I rescue like my mom still does unhealthy people? Yes. Or at least I did for years. You know what you know, and don't know what you don't know I know now, in spades. I thought I knew myself, and was aware, but I really wasn't. I am now. Where do I go from here? Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Tolou on August 18, 2014, 03:12:30 AM I know I cant predict the future, so there was no way I knew what storm was ahead when I met her, BPD or not.
However, when knowing and seeing and choosing to remain in the relationship, that lies all within me, if I project the blame on someone else, how does it make me different? How can I expect someone to be sorry or say sorry, when they never have>? Or to take responsibility for something, that they do not believe is their fault? No one held a gun to my head to stay or go, luckily for me, I walked after 6 months. I couldn't see myself living that way any longer, nor do I believe she would have made it, as she came close to actually completing her 3rd of 3 suicide attempts in less than 6 weeks because I feel she knew, I would walk away, she was right! I am far from happy about the ultimate demise of what I wanted things to be and what occured, but I am content that I tried very hard with all my heart and limited knowledge of what was going in that time and place to just be there and help, yet it was not working, couldn't get through. That was the problem, the disconnect, no longer will I attempt to make something rational out of something that is irrational. Redflags, yeah, I have some, who doesn't? But the white flag was most important for me, not for giving up, but just surrendering to this and realising if you need to change so much of who you are, filter every thought or word, and ultimately lose the ideal of who you see yourself wanting to be or trying to become, then your not with the right person, and that is okay! Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Narellan on August 18, 2014, 03:45:54 AM Red flags about ourselves. YES! One of the first statements my exBPD made about me to a friend was " Narellan is really vulnerable ATM isn't she?" It was like a sixth sense. He was very intuitive and preyed on my vulnerability. His last date a couple of weeks ago was with a woman i know just separated from her husband also and extremely vulnerable. It's what he seeks. He then photographs his " subjects" telling us how beautiful we are and builds our self esteem which has suffered due to the failed marriage.
Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Infared on August 18, 2014, 06:22:59 AM It's like Vampires. They can only come in when invited. I invited the Vampire in. But I can rescind that invitation. Did you know she was a vampire when you let her in? That sounds truly ghastly. Why would you have done that? I didn't. When I started to see it, I tried making sense of it. Tried to help her, because I loved and cared for her. Tried to get out, but found I was addicted. Looked in the mirror, saw I wasn't one myself, and finally woke up. I also didn't go looking to get mugged. It was more of an ambush. You may have played more of a role in your r/s troubles than others. Every story here is different, despite certain similarities. Absolutely true. But the fact is that by the time all the really bad stuff was occurring, I should have been gone literally years ago. But I chose to stay. And my growth and self respect and understanding comes from determining why I chose to stay. Why I let myself lose myself to the Disorder. Why I invited the Disorder into my life. No, I did not know it was the Disorder. But I was vulnerable to the Disorder for some very distinct reasons. The patterns on this board are so disturbingly similar. And the prescribed behavior for recovery is self reflection. So I have to assume that my recovery also fits the patterns and follow the advice. Otherwise, I remain a victim for the rest of my life. And in reality, I was a volunteer. Altruistic/Closet Narcissism is still Narcissism. But it can be treated. Be well. T I will agree that these situations are complicated... .and that we all have a part in the dance, no doubt... .but I will not agree that a murder victim is always responsible for his/her own death. Lies and deception were definitely not a part of my side of the story. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: Ihope2 on August 18, 2014, 06:56:52 AM I believe there are cases where one person is lying, cheating and deceiving and the other person has no idea. I can see where it would be hard to do an inventory of your own behaviors and beliefs in that situation. I find though, that more frequently there is an issue with both people in the relationship. A BPD persons behaviors may be easier to see in a lot of cases but usually the Nons behaviors feed into or fit perfectly with those of the BPD. I think they can be described and thought of as interlocking wounds. I grew up with what I presume to be a BPD mom and some sort of PD dad. I have some of the behaviors of a person with BPD and some of a NON. neither are healthy and neither make for good relationships IMO. Even after I went through some pretty rigorous therapy and studied myself and BPD behaviors and learned all the red flags, I still got myself involved with a guy who I think had BPD or possibly NPD. I discovered that being aware of red flags in other people behaviors was important, but it was vital to be aware of my own tendencies and behaviors when in any kind of relationship but especially one of intimacy. I do not really care what someone else does, I can deal with that. I can spot a red flag and a person with BPD or BPD tendencies fairly easily. It is what **I** do and how I respond to those behaviors that I need to watch out for. That is what I worry about and need to be extra watchful for. Things like making excuses, filling in blanks based on my bias of my partner, Trying so desperately to see the good things and being patient and waiting for the other person to recognize what they did or said was wrong. Wanting to be happy and being willing to sacrifice myself for someone else who is not willing to do the same regardless of how much I want them to. Somehow shrinking down and making myself small so my partner will not be embarrassed by a mistake or whatever. I look at my non behaviors as being very arrogant and controlling just as I do BPD behaviors. Very few people are immune and very few people are walking around without baggage or red flags sticking on them. Another thing I believe is that what is important is **how someone deals with their own baggage** in a relationship. A person may have a history full of red flags, but has learned to deal with and cope with them quite well. So make note of the red flags, but focus on your own responses. I totally relate to this. I hope that I can learn to deal with my own baggage in a healthy way from now onwards,and that I will not have to be in exile in the relatonship desert forever, after my most recent short-lived, highly dysfunctional marriage to a BPD man ended in divorce. Yes, there are red flags about me and they have been there most of my life. I would certainly understand someone questioning my behaviours in this marriage. The instant attraction, marrying him in a heartbeat, taking on all his complications. Taking him in as a homeless, penniless, unemployed person. Taking on his medical costs. Sponsoring him money, depleting my life savings for him. Putting up with punishing, negative, accusing, resentful behaviour towards me. Taking the emotional abuse. And still thinking I was doing good. I take ownership of it all. I understand it all so much better now, and I forgive myself for it all. I have made huge losses and huge gains out of this failed relationship. Title: Re: Are there red flags about us? Post by: irishmarmot on August 18, 2014, 07:50:00 AM Once I accepted ownership of my role in the relationship is when I truly started to heal. I was then able to let go and begin to detach. It is a long process but I am at a point where the thought of her does not interfere with my happiness on a daily basis. That is a good thing. There were plenty of red flags in the 5 months she in my life. I consciously entered into her insanity. That is her life. My life is returning to normal and I am more aware of my own FOO issues. I am seeing a woman now for about 3 months and there are no red flags. But I am taking it slow realizing there is no such thing as an instant relationship.
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