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Ok so I need some reassurances... was it normal for me to be so angry and lash out at my BPDexgf when I'd catch her in lies? Was it bad that I'd get angry and say something whenever she would lay in bed till noon while I'm working paying for everything! All her friends were drug heads and when I'd tell her she needed to stop talking to them she would trash talk about me to them... .Was my anger towards her normal? Or her telling me her and the ex broke condoms! Is my madness ok? Because she would also not take care of our  baby. I just need to know I'm not the crazy one.

Totally normal. She was crossing boundaries for you and clearly disrespecting you. It's totally ok to be mad about those things. It's human. Would you have thought she was out of line for being angry if you'd of done those things to her?

How did you lash out?  :)id she feel that you raged? screamed? belittled? threatened? intimidated?

Hey skip, well to be honest, I just lost it... .I screamed and yelled at her. She just sit there staring at me... .Then she wanted sex after... I was so completely sick of her being lazy and talking to other guys and trash talking me. I tried to be nice i promise. Every time I had a gut feeling it would be true. She told me she was raped by two different guys and gave me the dates. She told me I hid from the world... low and behold when I checked her Facebook for those dates that weekend was the time of her life. When confronted with it she made excuses and silence it was.

My uBPDex spent a long time trying to get me to open up; to show her all of my fears and make myself totally vulnerable to her... .I did this with her at a couple's counseling session. It was a huge break through. After, we stood in front of the office hugging and crying to each other. She asked if I needed time. I said yes, and that I would talk to her later. That night she went to a friends house, ate mushrooms, and wouldn't reply to my texts. I found out later she had told that mutual friend that she "didn't want a committed relationship." The next weekend, before I knew what she had said, she cheated on me with two people at an orgy. When I found out that, immediately making myself totally vulnerable to her, she cheated... .I freaked the F* out... .I was so enraged at her betrayal. I called her work and told them that she was abusing drugs (true), and that since she took care of a girl on a feeding tube, it was unsafe for her to work there. Basically, I tried to get her fired.

Anger is a normal human emotion. Am I saying what I did was "right"? No... .

Am I ashamed that I behaved in such a way? Yep.

Should I have just let it go, so to speak? Sure

Hindsight, they say, is 20/20. "They" are correct.

And she the freaking nerve to have sex with me, pack my lunch for work, text me all day then just disappear and not tell me anything! And punishes me with our child.

Honestly, we spend enough time in these relationships, everybody's crazy.  And my take is that anger that came out of you was reality speaking, your true self emerging because it had been repressed and silenced for too long, so it had to explode.  Healthy as hell.  And think what would happen in a healthy relationship: she'd be stunned, maybe surprised, maybe mad herself, and that could be the start of a 3 hour conversation where both people lay everything out, openly and honestly, and ta-da!  It either makes the relationship stronger, or it's the beginning of the end.  And if you do truly love each other and it was meant to be, it will make the relationship stronger, you will be closer.  My ex, when faced with my dissatisfaction, would not say anything, but I learned that she was focused on how to get control back, so I wouldn't leave, the end-all for a borderline, and when she'd run out of options, since her behavior was ridiculous, she'd try sex.  Yeah, that's it, just blow the guy, then he'll be compliant again.  That tact got transparent and disgusting after a while.  See any similarities?

One man's hallucination, apply as needed.

If my wife cheats and I catch her in the act and shoot her... . 

Typical? Normal? Healthy?

I think we need to "own" our bad acts. These are high conflict relationships and were are part of that conflict.  Both parties tend to blame the other for their aggressions. I can say that I've never read any one here say - well my partner raged but I caused it and she was just having a healthy reaction to me being a jerk.  :)  We remember the rage and felt abused by it.

Rage or losing it is, by definition, an over-reaction.  And its on us.

I think the question for us now, looking forward, is how did we get there and how do we not go there again?  

What has passed is past.

What did we learn from it?  

For me, emotional maturity is a value and rage violates this value (its over the boundary).  Since its my value and it starts with me. I have to walk the talk.

Stage 4, creative action, detachment leads to freedom (see margin notes) ------>

I did it too... .Not at the beginning... .It took a lot of BS to get me there... .But the last couple of months I screamed and yelled to after almost every anger outburst.

I guess it was the total frustration and dispair of being put down AGAIN. I didnt know how to deal with it anymore, how to cope... .I never said very nasty things to him... .But I would yell saying like... .How on earth can you think these things if me? Why do you always use my most hurtfull memories against me? Sometimes jerk or a-hole... .But still I yelled... .I have never yelled and screamed or faught with anybody before this r/s.

I guess it was the fact that he ALWAYS promised me he'd never do it again, and he always did... .I was not in control of the situation, frustrated, scared, confused... .Angry.

I let him cross my boundaries so many times, that I did too.

I hope I'll never let it get that far again, that I feel my only option left is to scream back. Its not who I wanna be... .

Anger is a normal, healthy response to abuse; rage is uncontrolled anger, and lack of control is rarely healthy.

I don't think rage is ever excusable. Sometime I might do or say slightly the wrong thing - something very minor that most people wouldn't notice and a very sensitive person might be a tiny bit annoyed at - but I don't think that justified the hours and hours of insane raging that followed. In my ex's mind, any fault on my part justified any kind of out of proportion reaction. Then on top of that I'd be blamed for not being sympathetic during the rage. This is not reasonable behaviour.

But I do think rage is understandable in an extreme or persistent situation. Still something to be avoided though.

I raged at my ex once, after she wouldn't stop going on about something for a week. She came from a bar to find me talking to a female friend of hers - in fact she had ASKED me to keep her friend company while she got the drinks. but she forgot this and was so angry I was talking to another woman. At first I told her not to be so ridiculous and reminded her that she asked me to chat to her, but she went on and on and to put an end to it I said, ok I'm sorry. But she continued. After a week of this I did something very nice for her to try to draw a line under it, but afterwards she just went back to going on and on and on about this non-incident. I lost it, the one and only time. I screamed in her face to shut the **** up. It worked. She went silent, went to bed silent, woke up silent and it was over. But in a sense it was pointless - a few days later she simply found something else totally insignificant to get angry about.

Well I lost it a few times... she never raged but once. She would just play people and be sneaky. And seriously is this silent treatment she's doing to me or is she no contact? It's confusing to me.

I think mine raged because she knew it was something I was bad at dealing with.

Silent treatment I could have handled, but I'm not good at handling rage and she knew it - because I told her early on.

Towards the end I told her I couldn't continue if there was any more raging, and she said "Yes, if you make me rage again, I will need to end it." 

The final rage was in public, it was humiliating - she got drunk and told a room of my friends and some strangers that I had cheated on her dozens of times. It was so embarrassing, I just didn't speak to her on the way home. She said, when you get angry with me it makes me feel rejected, and we split up that night. Insanity.

I think these people push us as far as they can deliberately, so if you do lash out, frankly, its understandable.

I told her "no", raised my eyebrows. Didn't even raise my voice.

She said I raged. Didn't talk to me for a week. I almost believed it.

Did this happen to anyone but me?

Yes, I almost never raise my voice, but if I showed any sign of anger/frustration she would say "You shouted at me" in a very quiet, childlike way.

I really was in love with a toddler, complete with tantrums. Maybe I should have put her on the naughty step :) I don't think that says anything positive about me, though.

So do you guys think she went no contact with me or silent treatment

I think any emotion is "normal" in that it is what it is.  To act out of anger or rage?  No that is not "normal" or healthy.

My ex used to tell me all the time "Harri, my behaviors do not occur in a vacuum".  I agreed, but that did not make him any less responsible for his behavior.  He used that as a way to justify and excuse his behaviors while putting me and mine down.  The truth is though that I could see mine, apologize, and "change".  he never seemed to be able to move past the finger pointing-blaming stage. 

I came to realize that it is important to look at the context in which these behaviors occurred, not to excuse and/or justify, but to identify what triggers us to act out in anger and rage.  Other than that, context has no real value.

I agree with what's shared above. 

Anger is a normal and healthy response to abuse, and when channeled properly, it can move us forward creating positive change.  The question that I've asked myself is how would I express anger now, and what action would I take that benefits me? 

What I've learned (yup, this is a judgment on my part) is that abusers are unlikely to hear and understand on a deeper level how their abuse negatively impacts others.  Does it really benefit me to have that discussion with an abuser when they're unlikely to learn from it?  In my experience, while it may have provided temporary relief (sharing my feelings with my abuser), I felt worse because the abuse continued.  In the end, it served no purpose. (Those discussions didn't help either of us)

What would I do now if someone was abusive toward me, and how would I deal with my hurt feelings and anger?  I would simply say to the abuser, "I'm not accustomed to being treated this way," and then I would walk away.  There wouldn't be a discussion. I would immediately extricate myself, and deal with my feelings (hurt, anger) away from that person.

That's who I am now.  The person I was while with my ex was trying to help him learn healthier ways. That's not my job.  That's the job of a qualified therapist. 

 

I know she thinks I abused her, but I know with all my heart I didn't... it seems like everything She told me was a lie. I found myself playing detective all the time. Yes I yelled. Yes I lost it. But my god... .I loved her more than I loved myself. Her disappearing like that is cowardly. But she must not be that scared because she keeps driving by my house.

That's what you may need to explore.  That's a huge step forward.  I know how painful it is.  You'll get through it.  Hang in there.   

I really did... .Sometimes I'd just rub her to sleep. She never returned the favor... deep down I knew she was wrong on so many levels but I always thought love would prevail. 

Skip, I agree with almost everything you said in your post. You're absolutely right about owning our actions and mistakes, and having to learn from them. My only point of contention is with the above. Murder is sort of an extreme example, no? There's kind of a giant leap between saying something mean to someone out of anger and killing someone in a rage.

I think the better question is if my wife cheats and I catch her in the act and I scream at her... .

Is that typical? Normal? Healthy?

I'd say that would be a pretty typical and normal. Not the healthiest way to go (I don't think it's the unhealthiest thing either), but is it that unreasonable if someone does lose it a bit considering the situation? I don't think it is. Even the law takes into account extreme emotional distress.


Hurting,

Simply yelling at someone because you're fed up doesn't make you crazy. Most of us do it at some point. Sometimes we just can't take anymore and snap. Does that mean it's good thing? No, but it is understandable. To be human is to err. We all make the wrong decision at some point. Making a mistake when you're under a ton of emotional pressure doesn't make you a monster. It just means you have to learn from the mistakes you've made. As Skip said what has past is past. You can't change it. What you can do now is focus on how you can deal with things better in the future, and how to avoid situations that are going to cause you to snap.

Best luck,

Rise

Thanks guys. This silent treatment or no contact whatever she is doing is driving me crazy. She has literally cut all avenues for me to reach her

I believe you.  I think we all do  :)


Before I say anything here, I want to say that my heart is here to help you.  Some of this may be hard to hear.

This (see your post) is often what someone booked for domestic violence says.  I'm not saying you are an abuser - I have no reason to think that - what I am saying is that these are not offsetting actions.  "I really lost it"  is not righted by "I really loved her".  :)on't connect these things, it will obscure the thruth yo are looking for.

Secondly, a person with BPD is like a person with a hearing aid turned all the way up - it doesn't take much for them to emotionally beat down.

Maybe in your frustration to be heard, you responded disproportionately. I can't know.  I can only say that "disproportionate" is the thing to ask yourself. I think this is Rises point also.

She said she felt abused. Was it reasonable to think this based on "disproportionality".  That is one important aspect of this.


Are you saying she felt abused by these guys and elevated it to rape.  Has this now happened between you and her?  Is she elevating/exaggerating what happened in her own mind?

So what so you think?  

1. Disproportionate anger (you)

2. exaggerating (her)

3. Disproportionate anger (you) + exaggerating what happened (her)

4. None of the above - abuse is not the central factor in our split

I admit it skip, i let it get to me. But I didn't threaten or hit. But I did ask how she Could be so stupid as to think the lies and secrets are ok. And I don't believe for a minute she was raped. I've found way to many flaws in her story. I mean an ex raped her then a total stranger and she took NO action either time? Plus the story changed. She told me this after getting in my car at NIGHT time on our first date... plus nothing is ever her fault. I just lost it... But love is me spoon feeding her when she's sick "which I did" love is me trying my best to motivate her. I'm just upset because the least she could have done is call and say it's over. I never once heard her tell our baby I love you. She really didn't even help with the baby.