BPDFamily.com

This post may seem harsh and could for some people upset them so I apologise in advance.

One thing I have come to realise with both my break ups from uBPD exs is that denial holds us back.

There are a few things that I ignored that if I had realised their true meaning then I would have avoided a lot of heart ache.

Firstly I filled a need in my exs. It wasn't love as us nons think of love. It was the love one person shows to another who is being kind to them. It was a fantasy of the happily ever after and that maybe this time theyre the one that will make this torment stop.

Secondly when they throw accusations at you then theyre most likely projecting what they have done. When they accuse you of being a liar, cheat whatever it is most likely they have lied to you and cheated on you. My ex/ partner would never cheat you say. So did I. I was delusional I wanted to believe they wouldn't do that to me but guess what they did.

Thirdly you cannot help them. Only they can help themselves. No matter what connection you think you may have it will never be strong enough to convince them to seek help unless they truly want to.

Fourthly they will have lied about you to friends and family. As soon as the idolisation phase is over then they will have started to say things. Even if you think that everything is great they will have already painted a picture of you that casts you in a bad light. If you don't believe me examine how their friends and family react to you. You will see subtle hints and maybe theyre a bit stand offish.

Fifthly the sob stories you where told about their exs are probably not true. There may be some elements of truth but the facts will probably have been distorted. The bad things that the exs may have done are most likely a reaction to the way the BPD has behaved. Im not saying that stuff didn't happen but the context may have been completely different to what has been portrayed.

I think I'll leave the list here for others to add to.

Hopefully it will help act as a wake up call for some that are still holding onto the fantasy that they where the one.

Enlightenme, the things we endured have been so very hurtful. I wish I could turn back the hands of time knowing what I know now about the disorder. You know, we here entered or stayed in our r/s with the very best intentions of providing a caring and concerning presence for our expBPDs bc they surely were needing of that in so many ways. Bc we cared, we would have a hard time believing any less than for the good bc thats who we are inside our hearts. I know your list applies to me ex as well and it makes me sad that my very real love couldn't make a needed difference to a person so needing of very real love. I never saw anything but his good. Why I never saw the rest coming including the devastation of being up and abandoned and erased. That hurts me the most bc I was so very present and caring for him. And I always was there for him in his immense need. I feel very alone being left that way yet. Unsure I will ever really get over that.

Hi CVM

We were all very much there for our SO. We loved and cherished them. What they did has hurt us and it was undeserved.

My reason for posting is not to demonise the BPD it is because I know the pain that holding on to the lie causes. My healing from my break up from my ex wife took years. This was because I was in denial. I didn't believe she was capable of the things she did so every time something new was revealed it was a slap in the face and the progress I had made was knocked back.

With my exgf I decided to believe the worse so there would be no nasty surprises. A few thing have now come out but this has not derailed my recovery. After 3 months I am doing pretty well. Im LC with her as we have a child and can even spend time in her presence. Im not saying its not been hard but its a lot easier to let go of someone who has done bad things to you than someone you completely trust.

If in the future I find out that some of the things Im thinking she may have done she hasn't then no harm done. I don't voice my suspicions to anyone.

I sometimes wonder if it is simple addiction 'enlighten me' and may have nothing to do with them. Simple addiction. The idealisation stage was a very potent drug at least for me. I was neglected as a child. Very lonely times. And I had lacked mirroring from an early age. My mother was depressed. When my ex showered me in attention and care, someone at last was caring for me like no one before. I mean during the honeymoon phases (and they were three as we broke-up three times - 3 months, 1.5 month, 3 months) I felt I could conquer the world. I though that I hadn't lived before I met her and that now that I did my REAL life would start. Little did I know that some sort of drug (dopamine? endorphine? something great in -ine) was hitting my brain. I felt I could achieve everything. I never felt so good with myself before. I suffered from mild depression all my life. With her my grey world become colourful. And then she took the drug away. And I had to keep coming back for more.

As has been said before there is a lot about who we really are that leads us into and makes it hard for us to leave these relationships. I often wonder if childhood conditioning through the films I watched has a part to play. All the unrequited love, the white knight to the rescue, the selfless hero laying down his life for those he loves, the strong man taking care of his woman at all costs. I believe part of me bought into this as how you should be.

Add to that any social situations and we are set up to fail in this situation.

Enlightenme, I too feel the deep betrayal in having my trust ambushed

This was a really interesting paper on the topic of love addiction.

www.academia.edu/3393872/Addicted_to_love_What_is_love_addiction_and_when_should_it_be_treated

Interesting article.

I have thought for a while that getting over a BPD relationship was a lot harder as we were in some way addicted.

Oxytocin that they mention can be released like a pheromone and picked up by someone else. By taking in oxytocin it stimulates your own production of it.

As mentioned in the article it is what is released during labour to produce the mother child bond.

There are some things that point to the possibility that a BPD produces elevated quantities of oxytocin. One example is the reference that has been made on this site on numerous occasions about the BPD having dilated pupils. Oxytocin causes this and the eyes are normally dilated when the BPD is in a happy state.

Could it not be possible that like a new born we have been exposed to larger than normal levels of oxytocin from our BPD. Could this also be the reason that we ignore the red flags as oxytocin increases your trust in others.

I would be interested to see if anything ever comes of this in regard to BPD.

That's a brilliant thought. Salesmen take oxytocin in order to make their clients trust them. It passes on from one to another as you say by mirroring. I 'd say that people that have not had sufficient mirroring as children (see attachment theory) might be more prone to falling for this and being more addicted/sensitive to oxytocin. I know e.g. that MDMA (the active substance in ecstasy) can feel like a mind blowing xp to some people but ok to others. I was always wondering why was that. Also MDMA apparently it is being used experimentally in the US and Switzerland to treat PTSD. I wonder whether it reestablishes some neural pathways associated with trust that were damaged due to trauma.

Oxytocin has also been used to treat PTSD. One of its functions is to bring us back down after a fright. It helps to reduce the cortisol which gives us our fight or flight response. People with PTSD apparently have elevated cortisol levels.

One of the side effects of oxytocin is that it can induce negative feelings too such as anger and other negative approach-related emotions... .

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/08/110801160306.htm

This is really interesting. Could this also justify BPD shift from trust and idealisation to rage?

Oh I was given many a sob story about previous relationships, including the one that drove her to a "suicide attempt".

They make you feel so sorry for them. It's almost as if they paint a picture that the whole worlds is against them.

The thing that strikes me the most is when they get a new supply they pick up right where they left off. Its not as if they learn from their previous experience and think to themselves "hmmm... that did work out well I better not do that again". They just repeat the same behaviour again and again and again.

History predicts the future. I got a very good bit of advice from the forum and that is when you get a new gf/bf slowly try to talk to them about their past relationships. Slowly get into the details if you can and you will learn a lot about how your relationship with them will pan out.

If she has a string of failed tumultuous relationships that end in fire works then is there any reason for you to believe that yours will be "different"?.

Proceed with caution 

That's interesting. I was thinking it could be more to do with cortisol. Theres a lot of things that both my exs did that naturally reduces cortisol levels. My exgf could not drink caffeine as in her words it made her crazy. Caffeine stimulates cortisol production.

My thinking is that the underlying fears cause the cortisol to be produced, this keeps them afraid which produces more cortisol. Because of the elevated cortisol oxytocin is produced. As the cortisol is so high the higher than normal oxytocin has little effect.

When a BPD "falls in love" the fear is diminished and the cortisol stops being produced but they are left with elevated oxytocin which is then absorbed by the non and the addiction/ bond is formed.

Orgasm releases oxytocin and a number of posters have mentioned how calm/ soothed the BPD is after sex.

Anyway that's just my theory and I have no hard facts to back it up but it makes sense to me.

They do learn from the past though. They learn that the sob stories work to ingrain them into our trust. They learn that the feelings of sympathy and love they get from telling these stories makes them feel good.

They just don't learn what they need to progress just what they need to survive.

How is oxytocin absorbed by the non?

Serotonin also dilates pupils (and is released through the use of MDMA - this is what I failed to mention in my previous post)

Oxytocin is given as a nasal spray so it makes sense that you just breath it in.

Im no endocrinologist. Skip is the guy to speak to about this. This is all what Ive read on the internet or gleamed from this site.

So you think that we can just sniff it of their bodies?

That's how it works with these business men.

They use oxytocin sprays to gain the trust of their clients.

Unbelievable! Really? I know we are leaving the topic slightly here but is this actually going on?

Google it. Its sold on amazon and advertised to help gain trust of potential clients.

The harsh truth about my stbxw is she was never interested in stopping her abusive ways. Regardless of what I said or did she continued to abuse me.

I would tell her how much it hurt me when she raged and belittled me. Her attitude was, "just get over it". When she continued to rage she'd have a perfect

justification for treating me badly. She would tell me "if I didn't get mad at you, you'd never change or do what I asked".

Another harsh truth is that she left me to be with another man. This hurts me deeply. Now she's off giving someone else the "love" I worked so hard to

get from her. Even though the "love" she's showing this new guy is surely temporary, it still hurts that he's experiencing now what I was starving for

in our marriage for so many years.

WOW... .this subject was a fascinating read.

Thanks to all who contributed!

Totally agree with all--harsh truths: writing them down, reviewing them frequently helps us to prevent slipping back into our denial coma. Absent mirroring and being ignored through my childhood no doubt made me more suseptible to exbfBPD ESPECIALLY during idealization. The biochemical effects--interesting, and I will read more. And here's what REALLY interesting. As of one week ago I was diagnosed with a rare and debilitating eye disorder caused 100% by excess cortisol in the body. The only other risk factor would be if I had been taking corticosteroids! ALL doctors ordered me out of my abusive relationship they said was literally stressing me to death. Addiction? Heck yeah! I think I am an adrenaline addict!

There people on here suffering from PTSD or the symptoms of it due to their relationship with a BPD.

The elevated cortisol that LoHL said about is something seen in PTSD. It just goes to show what an abusive relationship we have been in.

I was in the army for 19 years and did several operational tours. Since leaving I work in some of the more unpleasant parts of the world. I have been shot at and had more mortars and rockets fired at me than I can remember but never did I get close to PTSD. My exgf on the other hand had me there or if not there very close.

Just makes me more determined to never go there again.

Wow, I told our T that I thought I had a mild form of PTSD but felt embarrassed for saying this when I had not been through any real trauma like a soldier would experience.  I had no idea I was being abused (duh!), just knew I was unable to deal with ANY stress at the time, the littlest thing would put me in a state of shock that would take so long to get over!  She wasn't a very good T and never did dig deeper into this.

We all have heard that stress kills. I had 20-20 vision my entire life until 3 weeks ago after I had gone through one week of ST (now at 4 weeks, mysteriously and from out of nowhere). I am now legally blind in my left eye with all hoping that with stress (abuse, trauma) decreasing, the disorder will resolve on its own in 6-8 weeks. Otherwise, surgery with a retinal specialist. Talk about a HARSH TRUTH and constant reminder... .wonder if oxytocin opposes cortisol; if it is a possible treatment of for stress produced Central Serous Retinopathy (CSR)?

Im no doctor but from what I understand oxytocin is released to bring down cortisol levels slowly.

If you google oxytocin and PTSD there are some articles about it being used for treatment.

I live in the UK so can only order it from America so have never tried it but I have to admit I was tempted to. Probably not a good idea without being prescribed it but in the UK it is only used to induce labour.

There are a number of things that are recommended to reduce cortisol. Music, dance, mild exercise, healthy organic diet, hot baths and reducing caffeine and nicotine.

Try those first.

Just a question. How are you sleeping? Raised cortisol leads to a poor nights sleep.

Thanks to all and to Enlightenme. Sleep deprivation causes and exacerbates high cortisol levels so it's a vicious cycle. I awaken nightly after 4 hours of sleep and if lucky am eventually able to get back to sleep. Many nights during r/s with exbfBPD I was up text/fighting all night defending myself from 24-7 accusations that I was cheating on him (never did)--when I eventually fell asleep, it was trembling with teeth chattering. After an entire year, it took a devastating toll. Let's all focus on taking care of ourselves!

Sleep ic challenging. When I was sleeping with her next to me I was tense. Couldn't fully go to sleep - like if I was sleeping only 60%. My body wouldnt let go. It was like my instincts were in alert. She used to say 'you seem to have an issue letting go and falling fully asleep' she thoughts thats how I was not that she was the contributing factor to this.

Now my sleep is a bit better. There was a period after our our first break up that I couldnt sleep at all and when I could I would wake up sweating at night and sheets would be soaking. I also couldn't work at the time. Just seeing myself typing here I am realising what I have gone through.

Its funny you say that. Off topic a little but do you feel in many situations the person that has been abused doesn't really consider it abuse when really it was.

I ask because a lot of what my father did to me I have never spoken about to anybody. I just put it down my dad being an angry man and me being a naughty kid.

For example he would at times grab me by the hair and drag me to my room the throw me by my hair into the room. I recently asked somebody what they thought of that and their reply was one of shock that I didn't consider that "child abuse". Unfortunately that brought back many memories that I had pushed down and I cried myself to sleep that night.

Apparently when a child suffer this kind of verbal and physical violence in early development is has a very serious impact on the child brain and effects him/her for the rest of their life.

I scored 4 on the ACE test. I have lived my life never even considering how my upbringing effected me. I can now see how important it is.

Im now considering seeing a councillor about it but kind of dont like the idea.

I too had excess cortisol when I was trying to get pregnant. I did eventually get pregnant but I still have to take medication for high blood pressure. A legacy from that time. I don't think my cortisol levels would be anywhere near as bad now but having to co-parent I haven't fully managed to lose the source of my stress. I should have known better. I knew about his BPD after the first year of on again off again relationship. I should have turned and run the other way, however we have an incredibly socially aware daughter who has made it all worthwhile for me.

I have just finished  watching August Osage County. It is a perfect study in how BPD screws up families and transmits from one generation to the next. I have told my ex he has the opportunity to have it stop with him. I hope this turns out to be the case

Newlyhopeful and Visitor:  Harsh truths indeed; chances are that my eye problem is only the tip of the ice berg of the physical damage caused by a one-year relationship with exbfBPD.  When you mention the generational aspect of BPD--handed down from one generation to the next, I can speak to that from my own FOO.  As well, I think there are very real genetic, anatomy/physiology anomalies that predisposition people for BPD.  Just as some of us are more likely to pick up a gene for cancer or heart disease, others are more likely to have BPD--even head injury (often overlooked) can be a risk factor.  On this board, I'm finding a lot of positive correlations between BPD and child abuse.  There were three, natural children in my FOO, and each of us have manifested childhood abuse and neglect differently.  So, there is no "blueprint" that can be replicated but perhaps more of a perfect storm--if one is predispositioned and suffers abuse/neglect.  Either way, Visitor; MANY OF US (check out Codependents No More, CODA, have either denied abuse we have suffered, normalized it, or downplayed it as no big deal.  It is for that reason that I believe I have been VERY vulnerable to pwpd's--I think I've been trying to learn how to tame tigers in the midst of the tiger's cage.  Because some part of me has been denying the danger and horror of what I survived as a child.

Whats an ace test?

Im not sure if I can post any links but it's a 10 questions that help predict a persons behaviour in later life based on early childhood experiences from care givers (usually parents).

Google the test then go to youtube and type in "The Bomb in the Brain".

Its fascinating stuff.

Just googled it and just got this

ACE is primarily ordered to help diagnose and monitor sarcoidosis.

Wow this is so interesting. I am going to scrub my bedroom to get possibly any of these chemicals off possibly they still exist on areas my exBPD spent a lot of time sitting or lying on.

Wash that man right out of everything and possible triggers of emotions.

This makes so much sense. Stripping my bed as I type.

I feel great today, working on fixing myself, definately feel like I am crawling out if the dark hole I fell into. No more feeling sorry for myself. Im throwing my pride out the window. I gave all of my love and all of me to our r/s and I feel great about it because that is me.

I will do it again eventually in a new better relationship that I now feel educated enough to see so many signs and red flags that I ignored or had no clue about.i am far from ready yet, I am definately coming out of the mourning stages, but excited about living and laughing more again. He is the past, I am the future!

I am so thankful for all of the threads and information on this site.

All of these experiences that we are all going through have made me feel less isolated because we are all on that same lifeboat. We survived the storm and are heading to safety. I feel like today I see the sun shining strongly. Yes it hurts, but this is probably pride trying to show it's ugly face. Pride can keep this experience around way too much longer than it needs to, so I choose to accept and not feel bad about everything I did to keep the r/s peaceful. I am a peacemaker, I do not see it as a bad thing, I just have to be aware of how much peace needs to exist in the future and not accept the position for myself in any new relationships.

Have a beautiful peaceful weekend around fun people if you can or fun things that you love and make you happy!

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Facestudy.org%2Fyahoo_site_admin%2Fassets%2Fdocs%2FACE_Calculator-English.127143712.pdf&ei=9ikDVMnaNvCZ0QWd7oHoAw&usg=AFQjCNEUE8zh3kykTQSeRh_9-1dRJZsIGg&bvm=bv.74115972,d.d2k (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Facestudy.org%2Fyahoo_site_admin%2Fassets%2Fdocs%2FACE_Calculator-English.127143712.pdf&ei=9ikDVMnaNvCZ0QWd7oHoAw&usg=AFQjCNEUE8zh3kykTQSeRh_9-1dRJZsIGg&bvm=bv.74115972,d.d2k)

Its a PDF called the ACE calculator

MODS sorry if this is against the rules 

I used to jolt in bed, about every 5-10 seconds, my body would jolt, so I'd have to wait until I'd stopped jolting before I could get to sleep, she would try and calm me down by scratching my back, but she was the cause of the jolting. Never have I ever had this in my life, and how did this not raise huge alams bells to me about my health? HOW?

That must have felt terrible. Being consolated by your own abuser. Double betrayal. Ouch! The worse time I can remember in my entire life was when I broke down one night when I was with her. It was a heavy period of constant abuse for 2-3 weeks and when I tried to express my feelings (I don't do that often) I was met with complete denial, gaslighting, minimisation and all the techniques that she could use to not take responsibility for something that she had done that hurt me a lot. I eventually broke down that night crying out of desperation as I have never cried before (deeply as if I was crying from the heart or the lungs). When she saw that, she started consolating me, stroking my hair etc. That moment for me defines how learned hopelesness can be instilled in someone through a period of time - I thankfully picked up my stuff and left a week later.

This brings to mind something my UNPD dad used to say to me as a kid.  "The meaner you are to a dog, the more it will like you when you are nice to it."

"Sleeping with the Enemy," movie staring Julia Roberts came to mind SO many times during my r/a. The title fit perfectly--I could NOT sleep with him: something which angered him. I might doze for a few minutes and wake with a JOLT! Toward the end, I began waking with a true sense of danger, maybe even feeling I was in the presence of true evil. No wonder the adrenal glands, in charge of fight or flight, were working overtime. Rifka, thanks for the positivity: totally agree and look forward to getting there soon. Maybe one more harsh truth is we didn't listen to our bodies when our brains were intoxicated by their pheromones, etc. Next time my body says RUN, I'll be like another Julia Roberts movie, "Run Away Bride:-)

Yes this was happening all the time in one way another the entire relationship. Her doing something bad, then her doing things to try and make up for it. Is this part of the tactic to get you enmeshed and dependent on her? To form the trauma bond?

Thanks for this. Trauma bond. Never heard of this before. Just looked it up.

And I ended up here

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_and_control_in_abusive_relationships

Very interesting indeed. The 5 stages of control broadly match the three stages of BPD rs idealisation, clinging, hating

This brings to mind something my UNPD dad used to say to me as a kid.  "The meaner you are to a dog, the more it will like you when you are nice to it."

Hate to be creepy here, but Charles Manson is known for saying something eerily similar.

Well, the reality of it is that my dad was kind of creepy.  To this day I can still sense him around me.  He would monitor me and everything I did all of the time.  He had a comment for everything.  I became so self-conscious. 

I recall hiding a bottle of liquor behind a bush in the snow one time as a teen, and somehow he found it. 

My dad was Deniro from meet the fockers. My dad was a focker  :)