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Relationship Partner with BPD (Straight and LGBT+) => Romantic Relationship | Conflicted About Continuing, Divorcing/Custody, Co-parenting => Topic started by: harbour on October 01, 2014, 04:39:07 AM



Title: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: harbour on October 01, 2014, 04:39:07 AM
I think that I am somewhere between "Staying" and "Staying or leaving". Or - it changes. Right now I am closest to doubting if I will stay or leave. My doubts is about weather I am capable of coping with this relationship. I think that it takes more energy than it gives. But then again, there are periods with good and balanced energy between us.

One of my biggest concerns is that at times I find it more and more difficult to breathe freely, and to be spontaneous. Often when I am about to say something, I hold back and think if this or that remark would trigger his rage or suspicion. That is tiring and doesn't feel good at all. One very important thing has become a puzzle for me: How do I set boundaries? That is extremely difficult, because even the most harmless remark from me can trigger his rage, because he experiences it as an attack/harsh criticism. And then I'm left with a feeling that I am not in a relationship with an adult. In that situation it is even much more difficult to be with an adult than with a child, because with a child you can set boundaries, showing the child that in this or that matter you are the one who decides, and that's it. You can't do that with a grown-up man with whom you should have an equal relationship. An example: He has got the idea that I am unbearably jealous. In the beginning of our relationship he demonstrated through sms messages sent to a female friend of his, that he was in love with her and had been for 15 years, and that he would always love her though she didn't want to be his girlfriend. These messages he forwarded to me. So I became uncertain and doubtful about what he wanted, and I told him so. I wish I never had. We have talked about it, and he has assured me that it is me he wants and that I can trust him. So I trust him, because that is what he shows. They are still close friends, and I don't have any problem with that. But he doesn't believe me, and he uses it against me saying that he can't stand my jealousy. When I tell him that I am not feeling jealous, he says I am a liar. It is really annoying. Right now he forwarded a message to me, sent to her, where he says that he looks forward to spend more time with her this month, and especially the week where I am in Athens (I go to Athens to see a family who became my good friends in 1996). I really don't mind that he will see her more often. I think that it would be healthy for both of us if he would start seeing others more often and not cling so much to me as he has done for the six months we have been a couple (I haven't said that to him, of course). He doesn't seem to have any problem when I want to see my friends, and he sometimes wants to join me there. Now a few days ago he forwarded a message to me, sent to her, where he tells her that I am jealous of her because I haven't had a relationship for many years and he has had many, and because he is so very fond of her. And that he will tell me again and again that he loves me and wants to spend the rest of his life with me. He also forwarded to me her answer to him. I find this behaviour very childish. I can live with that, that he sometimes behaves childish, but I definitely don't like that he shares that kind of claims about me with her or with anybody. Not even if it was true. My problem is that if I told him so, it would convince him even more strongly that I AM jealous. Another example: When he gets an outburst, he is verbally very humiliating and hurting, and he can be scary, when he thumps the table with his fist or picks up a knife from the table, though he puts it back shortly after. He has told me that he has been violent towards some of his former girlfriends and is ashamed of it. How do I set boundaries without creating more problems for him and for me?   



Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Indyan on October 01, 2014, 05:01:03 AM
Why does he keep forwarding his messages to you?

Maybe you should consider telling him to keep his messages to himself  :)

He's obviously looking for a reaction from you, the less you'll react, the sooner he'll drop that attitude.

My BF also told me I was jealous in the beginning of our r/s. In fact it was the first red flag I should have noticed. We were merely dating, and one evening, on the phone, he started being really agressive about "I may go back to painting one day and you'll have to accept that I'll paint naked women".

I was under shock, I couldn't figure out what he was trying to prove. He kept insisting that I should admit that I was jealous. I refused to admit something that wasn't true but I found his attitude very twisted and manipulative. I ended up crying and that made him stop, as if he'd realized he'd gone too far. He used to complain loads about his ex's jealousy, so I put it down to "ex trauma". It's only months later that I found out about BPD.

He might have tried to make me jealous since then, not sure. I know he spent a lot of time with a collegue on the phone, she had just got fired and I found OK she needed to talk. I think he must have decided to change his angle of attack, that wasn't good enough. He's told me many many times that "I'm not the jealous type".

He knew from the beginning that I hate having an invasive family and I suppose he prefered to play on that, leaving me unexpectedly for his sister or organizing things with them without asking me.


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Take2 on October 01, 2014, 06:06:02 AM
Another example: When he gets an outburst, he is verbally very humiliating and hurting, and he can be scary, when he thumps the table with his fist or picks up a knife from the table, though he puts it back shortly after. He has told me that he has been violent towards some of his former girlfriends and is ashamed of it. How do I set boundaries without creating more problems for him and for me?    

Harbour... .when this type of behavior occurs, you need to remove yourself as quickly as possible.  :)o not allow this to be acceptable.  This MUST be your boundary.  You will not accept it.  He will escalate to violence.  He has a history of violence against ex girlfriends and he's pick up knives when he gets angry... .  please please please see that this has to be an absolute boundary for you.  Tell him this type of behavior is not acceptable, then you are going to leave so that you can both have time/space to calm down and that you will return later when things are calm.  And do it.  Leave every single time.  Enforce that boundary until that behavior doesn't happen again... .

And remember - an abusive man is extremely unlikely to change his behavior even with therapy... . be safe... .



Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: harbour on October 01, 2014, 07:10:17 AM
Yes, it seems that he is trying to make me jealous. He has told me many times that he falls in love with one out of two women, and he keeps on telling me and demonstrating how attractive, wonderful and fascinating he finds many women he meets. After he had met my two sisters he said that he was very attracted to them. He is very good at charming women. Earlier he talked so much and often about his fascination of women that I got annoyed and bored. I said that I don't find the subject that interesting.

I think that you are right when you say that the best thing to do is to ignore it.

He has seen me crying once, in the beginning of our relationship. That was the first time he got furious, shouting and accusing me of treating him terribly bad, while he was doing the best he could. When I couldn't reach him, because he was out of control, I felt powerless, scared and hurt. And I started to cry. That only made it worse. "Stop being foolish", he shouted, "see how mean you are, playing the victim". So I never since let him see me cry.

And yes, I should tell him not to forward his messages to me.


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Indyan on October 01, 2014, 09:37:40 AM
And I started to cry. That only made it worse. "Stop being foolish", he shouted, "see how mean you are, playing the victim". So I never since let him see me cry.

I'm not convinced that hiding our tears is a solution.

I've never cried hoping for him to come to me, and more often than not I cried myself to sleep, in another room. But he did come to me a couple of times. I remember once after he had badly rejected me, I was desperate, crying on my own after telling him "You should consult a doctor". He came to see me, took me in his arms and said "We'll make it somehow."

It these things that kept me going, for I could see HE KNEW there was sthing wrong with him.


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: upsidedown_world on October 01, 2014, 01:25:32 PM
Six months is certainly easy come easy go.  Why bother?

IMHO, much easier to cut ties now than after it's deteriorated for another 2, 5 or 10 years.

What do you realistically envision at those milestone time markers?


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: harbour on October 01, 2014, 06:35:41 PM
Thank you for listening and for your replies.

When we are together and not out, we are always in my apartment. So do you mean that I should leave my home, when he becomes aggressive? Or I could go to the bathroom and lock the door and stay there until he has calmed down. Actually I intend to talk to him about this when I see him tomorrow. I will tell him that I do not feel safe when he acts that way, and that I can and will not be near him if that happens again. I will ask him if he can feel it coming before he is about to lose control, and if he can, we can make an agreement that he leaves before he explodes. I don't know if this is realistic. But I could try.

Take2, you say that an abusive man is extremely unlikely to change his behaviour even with therapy. Why do you think that he will escalate to violence?

He was in therapy for three years. It ended in March this year. He reached out for help and started the therapy after he had been violent to his former girlfriend two years ago.

I did get a little worried, when he told me one day that his therapist often wanted to talk about his anger, and that my partner was not so interested, because he didn't see the point in talking about his anger. He didn't feel angry, he said. It is as if he is not aware of his rage afterwards, or of how aggressive he has been. He doesn't seem to be affected by it at all afterwards.

Why don't I leave him? Because most of the time I enjoy being with him. Most of the time he is gentle, affectionate, caring and giving. We have many things and interests in common. In his stable periods I feel good and can breathe freely when we are together. Since Friday I couldn't, because he changed into this weird mood. But I do have doubts if I will stay or not. I certainly do.


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Take2 on October 01, 2014, 07:51:37 PM
Harbour... .  I can't profess to be an expert on domestic violence, but I have read a lot about it given my own fears of what I've been through.  From what I've read combined with what you said - I think there's a very real chance that your bf will wind up getting violent with you.  You said that he has been violent in past with other girlfriends.  You said that when he gets upset he grabs a knife.  That are HUGE red flags... .that is just not normal or reasonable behavior. 

I read a book called Why Does he Do That by Lundy Bancroft.  He works with abusive men.  He's counseled them for like 30 years or something.  His book is incredibly informative and eye opening... . 

Good luck to you... .  know that you deserve to be treated with respect. 


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: harbour on October 02, 2014, 04:06:49 AM
Take2, thank you so much for your reply.

He didn't point at me with the knife when he picked it up. He pointed it towards the table for a few seconds and then put it back on the table, continuing shouting and cursing me. But you are right. It is not normal or reasonable behaviour. I never saw anyone doing a thing like that before. And I did feel my heart pounding and a tremble of my body. The first time he got an outburst was two months or so after we had started a relationship. It was totally unexpectedly. We hadn't had any argument or anything. That time he thumped the table with his fist. Another time we were lying in bed, side by side. The same rage. When he raised his arm and clenched his fist counting to ten, aloud, and thumped his pillow beside my head, I got really scared. When you are lying down in that situation you feel powerless. I remember thinking: No he wouldn't do it. He is not going to hit me. But I was terrified, and I thought I could just get out of bed and into another room. But I couldn't move. I was just lying still, being silent, and trying to keep eye contact with him as calmly I could. After the first time I thought that it wouldn't happen again, that he must have been scared himself of his behaviour. Wishful thinking. I know that now. And I expect it to happen again, no matter how careful I am in my own behaviour. And I must admit that I don't feel 100% safe. Right now, as I write this. I feel nervous. My body doesn't lie.

He is coming here tonight. He is calm and affectionate now. But ... .when is the next time something will trigger his rage?

What is your experience? Have you been in  a relationship with an abusive man, and was he violent to you? What did you do? Did you try to talk to him about it?

I can't understand his behaviour. Or maybe I can understand his rage out of what I have read about Borderline. But I can't understand how he can ignore his rage afterwards. As if nothing has happened. I don't believe that he has forgotten it. But how can he not be affected by it?


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Aussie0zborn on October 02, 2014, 08:28:16 AM
If he has hit other women why wouldn't he hit you?  You, or whoever he is with, are a red flag to a bull.

Counting to ten with a clenched fist and then punching the pillow? Who does that? It sounds like he's had anger management training.

They never see anger as they're problem. As I said before, he sees it as your fault for making him angry therefore you are the one with the problem because otherwise he wouldn't be like that... .he would be the nice guy that you say is perfect when everything is OK. This guy is not perfect at all.

One boundary might be that he leaves your apartment when you say so and at any time that he makes you feel uncomfortable. You shouldn't have to lock yourself in the bathroom - it's YOUR apartment remember - you lock HIM out.

In my opinion, you are ignoring all the red flags. Good luck.


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: debyt on October 02, 2014, 09:30:42 AM
Unless you are married to this man, RUN. GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN. My mother is married to him, or at least to his persona. she has been married to it for nearly 50 years and now that my dad is 80 yrs old he is abusing her like never before.  He is losing his mind to dementia and abuses her verbally, emotionally, and physically.  He pushes her down and calls her all kinds of horrible names.  If they will do it now at a young age just add 30 years to it and look down the road. 

You are valuable to God.  You are wonderful and don't deserve abuse.  Dr. Lehman says "there is no excuse for abuse".  Any kind of disrespect is abuse. Tigers don't just erase their stripes.  People don't change unless THEY want to.  Set your boundaries high and don't lower them or compromise them unless you have to protect yourself in some way. 

You are never alone because God is there with you daily.  Ask yourself, "What would I tell my very best friend to do?" then follow that advice.

hugs... .!


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: harbour on October 02, 2014, 02:35:43 PM
Take2, Thank you. I see the red flags now. And I feel like vomiting. I am scared. Right now I am trying to figure out why I don't just get it over with and end this immediately. I ask myself, is it because I don't want to lose the good thing we have together, and the love, or is it because I am terrified that he will take revenge and harm me severely if I leave him? I think all of it. What do I lose? I will lose the good thing we have together. Love? Is it an illusion in this case? When I think of it, looking back on these enchanting, wonderful times with him, really think of it, I wonder how much love there is in it. In his good periods, which he has most of the time, he puts me on a pedestal. I am his ideal woman. It is very seductive to be adored and feel like his ideal woman, the love of his life. But - I am beginning to realize that something is missing. Reality and equality, and space to be just a human being in his eyes, and feel relaxed. That does happen, but not that often. So, what I will lose may be just a dream. Actually, I do often feel more or less like in a dream world with him. A fairytale. Now I push it to the extremes. To try to understand myself in this. Love won't cure him, someone said. I believe that. I believe that he is not going to change. Though he says that he is working on it.

The fear of being harmed by him? You say that he will be violent some day. Somebody else said that. As you say, if he has hit other women, why would he not hit me? He has given me the impression that it is history and only history. And since he is in the middle of a so called psychiatric treatment, because he for the first time (according to him) was reported to the police by his former girlfriend two years ago, I thought that he had learned a lesson and had become very much aware and conscious of his acts and the deeper motives for them. Well, I am not so sure any more. Though he has said that his three years of psychotherapy has helped him a lot. Maybe, but how much, and in what way? I intended to talk with him about his rage tonight. He didn't turn up as we had agreed, because of "my silence and my bad mood". So he feels too uneasy and discouraged. He would go to bed (in the afternoon) and come tomorrow morning. That is far out. We have been communicating in a loving and caring way on sms since Tuesday. Sunday he had his outburst. I also ask myself why I haven't even mentioned these outbursts to him before. For two reasons: When he comes back to the idealizing state, I feel relieved and just want to "forget about it". And because I am afraid. Afraid that bringing up the issue might trigger his rage again and make him so desperate that he might harm me terribly bad. I am also afraid that he will harm me, if I stay. I feel trapped. I see the red flags. I see all these things, still I sense that there is something I don't see. Why and what is that, I wonder.





Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Indyan on October 02, 2014, 03:13:49 PM
Does it sometimes paint you black and go no contact for some time?

Maybe the easiest would be to go along with him then, "we don't fit" sort of idea.

But you definitely ought to talk to him when he's calm. If he can't listen to you then, and not only listen but agree with you, then there's not hope whatsoever.


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Lucky One on October 03, 2014, 04:38:47 AM
So sorry to hear of these experiences you are having.

It's so absolutely wrong for a man to intimidate and / or terrify a woman and vice versa, physically, verbally and emotionally.

NO REASON on earth can ever justify this action, whether the perpetrator is sorry for it or not, afterwards. :light:

There is a very good WORKSHOP that was initiated by Skip, the founder of this website, on SETTING BOUNDARIES. It's quite long and detailed, with many experienced members who participated.

I've just recently read it myself and all I can say is "WOW" - I had it all wrong!

If I had, had my PROPER boundaries in place, a lot of heart sore and sorrow, could have been avoided.

I'd like to encourage you to read it, give it a try. It's one of the Top Workshops on the site. You may find it very helpful - search under Top Workshops.

Best wishes, it's in your hands |iiii



Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Aussie0zborn on October 03, 2014, 04:57:49 AM
... .he puts me on a pedestal. I am his ideal woman. It is very seductive to be adored and feel like his ideal woman, the love of his life.

Yes, it's great, isn't it? Except its not real. As you say, he is seducing you he is not loving you - there is a difference. It's all fake and this level of seduction is what makes us ignore the red flags and excuse their bad behaviour. The problem is that the behaviour gets worse and the damage it does to you - in every which way - is difficult to overcome. There is a huge price to pay for this kind of relationship.

Anybody can be his ideal woman - all she has to do is fall for the seduction and excuse his bad behaviour. When your realise his behaviour is dangerous and you don't allow it anymore he will not "love" you anymore. It's that simple.


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Lucky One on October 03, 2014, 05:42:50 AM
... .he puts me on a pedestal. I am his ideal woman. It is very seductive to be adored and feel like his ideal woman, the love of his life.

Yes, it's great, isn't it? Except its not real. As you say, he is seducing you he is not loving you - there is a difference. It's all fake and this level of seduction is what makes us ignore the red flags and excuse their bad behaviour. The problem is that the behaviour gets worse and the damage it does to you - in every which way - is difficult to overcome. There is a huge price to pay for this kind of relationship.

Anybody can be his ideal woman - all she has to do is fall for the seduction and excuse his bad behaviour. When your realise his behaviour is dangerous and you don't allow it anymore he will not "love" you anymore. It's that simple.

Echo That,

What is REAL genuine love for another person? :light:

Can you give us a short definition, that we can take forward with us?

That we can use. That can and will really help us! Not this "Pie in the Sky" love.


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Isa_lala on October 06, 2014, 09:43:13 AM
Harbour, I am soo feeling like you do!

I recognize some parts of my relationship and I am dealing with the same dilemna: shoud I leave him and lose all what I love in him and in our relationship or do I stay and cope with all that I hate in the relationship... .

I feel with your last post that you think of leaving him but are afraid. Would have a safe place to stay for a while after you break up? A place he is not aware of as a home of a friend he never met? That could help... .


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: harbour on October 06, 2014, 12:11:37 PM
Hi Isa_lala, AussiOzborn, Indyan and Lucky One

This site and this forum are invaluable for me.

I have had a few days to think it over. And I realized that I will not and cannot allow myself to be controlled by fear. So, I decided to talk to him about his outbursts and what they do to me. I also decided that if that would trigger his rage or if he refused to talk about it, I would break up with him. But again, how? I could write him a letter. It really provokes me that I would be too afraid to break up with him face to face, but I will not put my life or my health at risk. Then there would be another problem. He has left a lot of his stuff here in my apartment. I could, of course, make sure not to be alone when he would come and get his things. He came Friday as we agreed, and we talked. I told him that when he gets these outbursts, I don't feel safe, and that it is a serious problem. I told him that when he shouts and picks up a knife or raises his arm with a clenched fist accusing me of treating him terribly bad etc., then it scares the hell out of me and hurts me. He listened calmly and seemed to take it very serious. He said that he was aware that his anger sometimes can get out of control, but that he was not aware that it scared me and hurt me so. We talked about it for an hour or so, and we agreed that when he feels the anger growing, he will leave immediately and not come back until he has calmed down. He also reminded me that he actually wanted to leave the last time he got angry, before it got out of control, but that I got angry because he would leave. So he stayed. And he ended up in a rage. That is true. I always gets hurt when he suddenly wants to leave, because of some apparently harmless remark I made. Or because he gets distant. So we agreed that I let him go in peace, when he needs to get away. Either because of his anger getting out of control or because he needs distance. Typically, when everything has been fine for some time, he gets distant and a little depressed. He says that he thinks it is because of his terror of losing me. And that fear is strongest when he feels really good with me. And when that fear becomes unbearable, he gets even more terrified, since he knows his destructive pattern. He is aware of it, and he is trying to be sensible, but he finds it extremely difficult to control that fear, he says. I think that this new agreement we made is the best thing we can do right now. When he gets these moods, it never lasts for more than a few days. So maybe it doesn't have to be a big problem, I think. Now that I know a little more what it is about, it may not hurt me so. We will see how it works.

I do have in mind what several of you said. That it is only going to get worse. That he will not change. That he will become violent some day. So, of course I ask myself: Am I deceiving myself? I do not know. But I will be very, very much alert.


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Isa_lala on October 06, 2014, 01:16:56 PM
Harbour,

Many times I wish I could have left my bf at the beginning of the relationship.

Yes it can go better with a lot of efforts from both partners, efforts that take a lot of energy. Too much energy.

I often think that a relationship shouldn't be that energy consuming... .Things are not always easy in a relationship, but most of them should be. Only a 10-20% could be time and energy consuming, not the opposite. It is was I think, I may be wrong.

I have been with my bf for more than 2 years and it presently is as difficult as it was 2 years ago. And I spent A LOT of energy in this relationship, for what? don't know.

If my son was borderline, I would cope with it and would help him the most I can. My boyfriend? not sure if I should keep trying to make this relationship work. Really, I think it takes too much energy to go on with something we could avoid... .

sorry to be so negative but I am going through bad times with my bf these last weeks.


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Indyan on October 06, 2014, 02:18:03 PM
When he gets these moods, it never lasts for more than a few days. So maybe it doesn't have to be a big problem, I think.

I do have in mind what several of you said. That it is only going to get worse.

In my case, some people on a forum also kept telling me it would get worse, that violence would just escalate and so on. It hasn't so far, 2 years later.

However, if he's really BPD, then you may be minimising the "moodswings problem".

I did. I used to think "he's depressed, he'll get better, I can cope with those moods".

BUT IT DIDN'T WORK THIS WAY

Because we can't always cope. His stress may grow bigger because of external events (stress at work for example). Or we might not be well and he won't handle that at all... .

But it's not just this.

I never realized why BPD was called an illness and EVERYTHING it's about.

Until now. I mean, pwBPD are capable of REALLY REALLY LOSING IT. I used to think that was overstated, this things about being ill, being "on the border of insanity". Well, no. pwBPD have terrible things going through their minds, and it's not all self-destructive. It's also ugly stuff about the people they love, about controlling before they get controlled, destroying before being destroyed, hurting before being hurt etc.

Please beware of this: they are bombs just waiting to explode dangerously.


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Isa_lala on October 06, 2014, 03:12:44 PM
Totally agree with Indyan  :'(


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: harbour on October 06, 2014, 04:32:11 PM
Yes, it is very tiring, and I don't have the same energy as before. I thought that it was because that I have been a single for many years and needed some time to adjust and get used to my new life. Well, I don't believe that any more. I agree, Isa_lala, a relationship should not be so energy consuming. A healthy relationships gives energy more than it takes energy.

I recognize too easily the need to control. Two examples: He never stops struggling to make me do things he wants me to. He has his interests. Some of them we have in common. But he wants me to share ALL his interests with as strong an enthusiasm as his. He is so insisting that he puts pressure on me. And no matter what I say or think or want or not want, he never stops. One day over dinner, a few months ago now, he said that he had noticed that I sometimes became a little distant when he talked about a certain subject, and he wanted me to know that if I wasn't interested in hearing about it, it was ok. Then it was ok that I told him so. So, I said that I was not uninterested in the subject, but that he was more interested in that subject than I was, and that he often talked about it, so I probably sometimes got a little absent minded when he talked about it. I should never had said that. He immediately got a scary outburst that lasted for two hours. I said that I didn't see it as a problem that we don't have exactly the same interests in every single way, and that I didn't expect him to share ALL my interests. Fortunately, I said, we do have several common interests. He wrote down every word I had said on a piece of paper, pointed at it and shouted. This is war! You want war, he said. then I didn't say another word until he had calmed down. Another example is his mania for communicating with sms when we are not together. That is making me crazy. I have told him that I have things to do, and therefore I cannot answer all these messages all the time. He says he understands, but he keeps on doing it and expecting me to answer them. Last Thursday he had sent me only one message in the morning. The subject was really not important. It was about something he had heard on the radio and that he wanted to share with me. He knew that I was busy painting that day. At noon I sent him a message telling him that I looked forward to seeing him. That was too late. We had agreed that he should come to my place in the evening. But no. Now he didn't want to because I was silent and in a bad mood. He had been so terribly anxious, because he hadn't heard from me. Until noon.

Right now everything is fine and relaxed. For how long though?

What really scares me and makes me wonder is that though so many of you out there obviously are miserable in your relationships, and at the same time you are very conscious and aware of your situation, you still choose to stay, after years in misery. Is it that impossible to break up, or ... .?


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: H0lding0n on October 06, 2014, 06:51:57 PM
I've experienced the same type of behavior with my boyfriend he tries to make me jealous by letTing me know he talks to other girls are you text other girls he throws it in my face it tells me stories his way of testing me to see how much I love you it took me a long time to figure out I was supposed get upset and throw a fit for a long time I would say nothing act like it didn't bother me ignore the behavior and he took this as a sign that I didn't care now instead of throwing a jealous rage like he's looking for or ignoring the behavior like I used to I simply state the things that you are saying to me is very hurtful because I love you that usually takes care of the situation in the moment


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Lucky One on October 07, 2014, 03:54:58 AM
I've experienced the same type of behavior with my boyfriend he tries to make me jealous by letTing me know he talks to other girls are you text other girls he throws it in my face it tells me stories his way of testing me to see how much I love you it took me a long time to figure out I was supposed get upset and throw a fit for a long time I would say nothing act like it didn't bother me ignore the behavior and he took this as a sign that I didn't care now instead of throwing a jealous rage like he's looking for or ignoring the behavior like I used to I simply state the things that you are saying to me is very hurtful because I love you that usually takes care of the situation in the moment

There is a really Fantastic Workshop in the Learning Centre Board about setting Borders - 59 pages long.

There is also a one page definition of what "TRUE LOVE" is in that workshop.

I'd like to encourage everyone, who hasn't read through the workshop yet, to do so.

I found it EXTREMELY helpful and AMAZINGLY informative. It was run by Skip - the founder of this website.

Best wishes to you all - your posts have also been helpful to me. Thanks so much for your input. |iiii

PS.

IN the Learning Centre - Boundaries - Living our Values : posted 13 May 2014

Click on "Most Popular Topics" when in the Learning Centre - Boundaries is No. 1 - Top Workshop.

Definition of Love or - Characteristics of a Healthy Intimate Relationship : by healinghome- is about half way through the 59 page workshop.








Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Isa_lala on October 07, 2014, 05:48:35 AM
I am quiet sure i posted something last night and I don't see it this morning. Has my post been put somewhere else by the moderator ?


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Lucky One on October 07, 2014, 06:33:17 AM
I am quiet sure i posted something last night and I don't see it this morning. Has my post been put somewhere else by the moderator ?

1. Click on your profile.

2. Click on your last post under your profile

3.Check if the post that you are talking about is there.

4. Then click on the "Title" in that post, if it is there. You'll see which thread it went to.

5. If it's not in your profile-it hasn't been posted-I don't think. Finger / Keystroke problems!

6. If so, post again |iiii


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Isa_lala on October 07, 2014, 08:10:13 AM
thank you lucky one. I probably did the wrong thing when posting

where can I find the workshop you speak about?

Harbour, I said than your BF is the twin of mine. My BF is soo controlling! Doesn't understand that I may don't like things as he does... .

same for SMS, he is compulsive! And if I don't answer, especially when I am alone at home at night, he gets so upset!

your question about why we are staying in such a relationship is so relevant. One of the reasons I kept hoping that the relationship will go better is that my BF and I have each a son and our sons are so getting along that I know it would be very heartbreaking if they were to not see each other anymore. His son is also loving me and he would miss me a lot.

another reason it that I know that my boyfriend would be devastated and I feel bad about it. Guilt... .

another reason is that I really don't know how the break up would go. I am a little bit afraid of his reaction because he may become so angry, so hurt, that he could be violent.

you see that we are in a similar situation... .


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Lucky One on October 07, 2014, 09:30:48 AM
thank you lucky one. I probably did the wrong thing when posting

where can I find the workshop you speak about?

1. Click on Board

2. Go down to Learning Centre

3. Click on Workshop.

4. Click on Top Workshop or Most Read or Top stories - You'll see it - It's all by itself

5. Then click Boarders -- by Skip - it was in May 2014 I think - It's still the Top Workshop.

And Good Luck - Let me know if you found it.

I still have to find out How one can do a shorter link to an article - But don't worry I'll do it.



Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Isa_lala on October 07, 2014, 10:01:28 AM
thank you again!


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: upsidedown_world on October 07, 2014, 01:42:44 PM
Take2, thank you so much for your reply.

He didn't point at me with the knife when he picked it up. He pointed it towards the table for a few seconds and then put it back on the table, continuing shouting and cursing me. But you are right. It is not normal or reasonable behaviour. I never saw anyone doing a thing like that before. And I did feel my heart pounding and a tremble of my body. The first time he got an outburst was two months or so after we had started a relationship. It was totally unexpectedly. We hadn't had any argument or anything. That time he thumped the table with his fist. Another time we were lying in bed, side by side. The same rage. When he raised his arm and clenched his fist counting to ten, aloud, and thumped his pillow beside my head, I got really scared. When you are lying down in that situation you feel powerless. I remember thinking: No he wouldn't do it. He is not going to hit me. But I was terrified, and I thought I could just get out of bed and into another room. But I couldn't move. I was just lying still, being silent, and trying to keep eye contact with him as calmly I could. After the first time I thought that it wouldn't happen again, that he must have been scared himself of his behaviour. Wishful thinking. I know that now. And I expect it to happen again, no matter how careful I am in my own behaviour. And I must admit that I don't feel 100% safe. Right now, as I write this. I feel nervous. My body doesn't lie.

He is coming here tonight. He is calm and affectionate now. But ... .when is the next time something will trigger his rage?

What is your experience? Have you been in  a relationship with an abusive man, and was he violent to you? What did you do? Did you try to talk to him about it?

I can't understand his behaviour. Or maybe I can understand his rage out of what I have read about Borderline. But I can't understand how he can ignore his rage afterwards. As if nothing has happened. I don't believe that he has forgotten it. But how can he not be affected by it?

You don't have to understand his behavior.  You have to understand yours.  Seriously.  Why would you NOT be walking out the door permanently if you have these questions at this relatively early stage of the relationship?  Things don't "get better" with time.  You're still in the honeymoon phase.


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Isa_lala on October 07, 2014, 03:26:24 PM
I agree with Upside down, Harbour.

However, when my bf started his "weird" behaviours, it was 4 months after we started to date and I was in love with him and didn't want to lose him. So I stayed. 2 years later, have those behaviours stopped? no! Got worse I could say because I didn't set my limits. I didn't listen to myself, I didn't respect myself.

If you decide to stay in this relationship, PLEASE, set your limits asap ! For your own sake!


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: harbour on October 07, 2014, 04:18:40 PM
Isa_lala, I understand why it must be very difficult to break up when there are children involved.

Fear and guilt are some of the feelings I also struggle with. After only six months!

Upsidedown_world, There are many good things in my relationship. It is still not clear to me whether the good or the bad dominates. I feel good with him when he is not in one of his moods. I am more tired than before though, even in the good periods. Today I had three calls and 22 sms messages from him. I will probably receive more messages this evening before I go to bed. That stresses me a lot. I am trying to think out how I can make him reduce these messages without him getting too upset. The fact that I feel I have to think that out, that I can't just tell him not to disturb me all the time, is frustrating and feels unreasonable. That, I want to and need to change.

What really provokes me is that I accept being controlled by fear and guilt. Even though it is only to a certain degree. It makes me feel a little like in prison. That prison is my own prison. He is not responsible for that. I am. I am aware that he, or his behaviour and reactions trigger my fear and guilt. But he is not responsible for my feelings. He is responsible for his own behaviour - and feelings. Not for my feelings whatsoever (maybe he is partly responsible for my getting scared when he behaves threatening). As I am not responsible for his feelings. So when I don't set boundaries and take the space I need it is because I subject myself to his fears and anger and controlling etc. I am doing that. And that provokes and frustrates me more than anything. I thought I knew myself better than that. I do set boundaries, but not enough. I need more space, and I will not tolerate being yelled at or his threatening behaviour. I have set a boundary there. I should have done that the very first time he got an outburst. Time will show if he can and will respect the boundaries I set.

To me it begins to look like something of a shocker if one voluntarily stays caught up in misery because of fear and guilt. I don't want to find myself in that situation. Why would I not be walking out the door permanently when I have these questions at this relatively early stage of the relationship? I have been single for 30 years. Then I met him. So you see, I don't have much experience with relationships. I do see that this can't be normal. There was a reason why I looked for this site. But it may not be that easy to be in a relationship with me neither. I may need more space than most in a relationship, because I haven't been engaged in a close and intimate relationship for so many years. And I think that I have a lot to learn about that.

By the way, several on this forum warned me of the fact that a BPD will never change. That it only gets worse when in a relationship. I see that you speak out of experience. But who said, and how can one be sure, that this is the case for ALL BPD's, that there are no exceptions?

Lucky One, I found the Workshops, but I can't find "Boarders" by Skip, May 2014. I would very much like to read it.


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Indyan on October 07, 2014, 05:16:01 PM
By the way, several on this forum warned me of the fact that a BPD will never change. That it only gets worse when in a relationship. I see that you speak out of experience.

I think that's for BPDs who seek no treatment/therapy. They'll just keep repeating their cycles over and over again.

But maybe for the others, there's a bit of hope left?


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Lucky One on October 08, 2014, 02:36:14 AM
By the way, several on this forum warned me of the fact that a BPD will never change. That it only gets worse when in a relationship. I see that you speak out of experience.

I think that's for BPDs who seek no treatment/therapy. They'll just keep repeating their cycles over and over again.

But maybe for the others, there's a bit of hope left?

Absolutely agree. But they pwBPD have to go for treatment. By doing so they are acknowledging that something needs to be done and / or something is wrong.

Also it's NOT going to be a short treatment time. Could be years. Maybe less. Depends on their motivation and how ":)ESPERATE" they are to put and end to their own suffering.

We should just know that they are really suffering!

But that's NOT a good enough reason for putting us through agony, turmoil and chaos!   


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Isa_lala on October 08, 2014, 05:27:22 AM
Harbour,

even if you haven't been in a lot of relationships (and it is my case, I had only been in a 2,5 year-long relationship before him), you know what is acceptable or not.

Imagine a friend of yours is at your place and you see the scene where her BF is yelling at her, grabs a knife and put it back on the table, how would you feel?

When my BF has his rage outburst, I imagine if we were in a coffee shop for example, I am quiet sure that people around would intervene or even call the police. This is not an acceptable behaviour, either from a BF, a boss, a friend or a family member.

I understand that there are a lot of things you like in your relationship, we all do. Take time to think (alone) about your limits, what you expect from a relationship, what you don't want and try to see what limits you really want him to respect. you can tell him one at a time.

you see, I am one better to give advice for others than for myself 


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Isa_lala on October 12, 2014, 08:28:29 PM
Harbour? What's new on your side?


Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: harbour on October 29, 2014, 11:57:27 AM
I have been in Athens for 8 days to see my Greek friends there. My partner missed me desperately. I missed him too, really, but not desperately.

Things are going pretty well between my partner and me at the moment. Since I talked to him about his rage and told him that I feel unsafe and threatened, when he gets so furious and picks up a knife etc., he hasn't had any outburst. He seems to take it seriously, and he is obviously able to control it, so far. I have my issues too. When we had that talk, he told me that he was very vulnerable to my threatening him to leave him. I got surprised, because I have never threatened to leave him. He said that I hadn't done it directly, but when I say things like "What you are doing now is very stupid of you", e.g. when he wants to leave my place in anger, then he feels that I am warning him, that I am saying that if he walks out that door, I might just leave him for good. I see how that kind of remarks can trigger his fear. So I am more careful what I say and how I say things, and I don't feel it is so difficult, because it is not hard for me to understand it. He obviously feels more secure and more relaxed now.

I think that his rage and his very aggressive outbursts were triggered by an unbearable fear and suspicion that he was going to lose me, that it could too easily happen any moment. I have not given him any promises, and I would never do that, though he tells me again and again that he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, and that he will never fail me. It would be a false security to give him. I don't believe that it would make him feel more secure. But I am trying to show him that I want to make this relationship work, and he seems to trust me in that now. That has made things a lot more stable, and less tiring. It is still hard for him, when we part every Monday (we are together 3-4 days a week, usually Friday till Monday). A few hours after he has left he starts sending me messages, lots of them, and continues doing that during the week, expecting me to reply every message. And I can deal with that.

I don't know, of course, if it will go on developing in a healthy direction. We will just take it easy and see ... .



Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: RunForest on November 02, 2014, 05:44:57 PM
Today I had three calls and 22 sms messages from him. I will probably receive more messages this evening before I go to bed. That stresses me a lot.

Hi Harbour !

1) It seems unbearable 22 sms per morning right?

... .and though at first I would be honored to all these tokens of love... .but seriously , really it is too intrusive.

How to set boundaries? You may tell him that you feel happy that he is thinking of you, but that you must shut down your phone during the day to be able to work /to  paint / to drive... and do it. (telling him it is not just for him, but for everybody for you to focus on your tasks)

And that you will respond to his sms/call at 7pm (for example)

My boyfriend did that with me and I take it as it is ! (I would have liked to send him 22 sms but definitely never dare)   

2) I go through the same experience a little as yours, with age and the long celibacy, are we more ready to respond to any desires of the unexpected man suddenly in our lives for fear of losing him?

In fact people are meeting even at 75 yo, as you overcame loneliness once , believe me it is the same in better after an experience of relationship which learned a lot about you, and that you can improve  yourself until Mr Right will appear.

This is how I feel personnaly.

But maybe just to set your boundaries with your disorderly boyfriend is allready a big step.



Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: RunForest on November 02, 2014, 06:40:37 PM
PS : I should add - practical advice for not being invaded by unwanted sms or phone calls at certain times:

- My boyfriend closes his phone during his working day so I knew it and did not call to leave a message except if it was important.

- On the other hand, he was disturbed during our relationship that my phone was on answering directly after 9.30pm. I explained to him the next day that I shut it off every night or it will discharge quickly (old item)  - In fact I didn't want him to call me after 10 pm as he used to do in the beginning, since it stopped me to relax before going to sleep (but I did not want to offend him by telling him that, though he would have probably accepted).



Title: Re: How do you set boundaries?
Post by: Isa_lala on November 03, 2014, 11:32:07 AM
I think that his rage and his very aggressive outbursts were triggered by an unbearable fear and suspicion that he was going to lose me, that it could too easily happen any moment. I have not given him any promises, and I would never do that, though he tells me again and again that he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, and that he will never fail me. It would be a false security to give him. I don't believe that it would make him feel more secure. But I am trying to show him that I want to make this relationship work, and he seems to trust me in that now. That has made things a lot more stable, and less tiring. It is still hard for him, when we part every Monday (we are together 3-4 days a week, usually Friday till Monday). A few hours after he has left he starts sending me messages, lots of them, and continues doing that during the week, expecting me to reply every message. And I can deal with that.

I don't know, of course, if it will go on developing in a healthy direction. We will just take it easy and see ... .

I would say that my BF does the same. He has always been afraid of me meeting another men (better than him of course, because of his poor self-esteem) and I need to reassure him about my love from him even if it doesn't work... he will always have this fear of abandonment, that's part of him. He would have to work hard on a therapy to decrease this fear he has had for so many years... .

On my side, I really try to not have conversation via SMS. I don't succeed very well, but at least I try.