BPDFamily.com

Dear BPD family,

I thought my run-ins with BPDs were over... .but only just begun.

Essentially I had nowhere to live after relocating to a new city. My business was just robbed of all it's cash by a malignant narcissist and I was essentially homeless.

I moved here to a new city, Portland in hopes of starting afresh.

(I have 100+ posts on this board in relation to a past rs with a person w/ BPD and the resulting PTSD symptoms that ensued).

So a wrecked person... .I came to Portland.

1st room. Was with a polyamorous couple who wanted to use me as a sex toy. Woman had anti-psychotics, benzos, and pain meds in medicine cabinet... .1000s and 1000s of pills. Experienced her rage at the rejection and left.

2nd room. Was with a 50 year old nurse... .seemed nice... .turned out to be a raging alcoholic. Daughter diagnosed and medicated bipoloar disorder, other daughter undiagnosed BPD. Spoke like a small child... .she sounds like she was 7 years old. Raged on her mother and brought toxicity in to the house. I stood up for the mom, and was kicked out of the house essentially.

Park. Planned to stay in park for the night. Had a new job that pays very well, but not enough for own place. Don't want to get another room because of the psychos and ptsd being triggered.

Stayed with girl I met off dating site. At first she seemed nice... .said she was an empath and animal lover. Told me she lived with abusive ex boyfriend... .over time... .later learned it was her separated husband Red Flag... .anyways it was either spend 2k to stay in a motel, or go stay with her and get a place after a month or two.

I paid the separated husband to leave... .and took over his room. I gave her money for rent. I made sure to tell her this was temporary and that i was not replacing her husband... .etc.

She told me that she had PCOS and it was impossible for her to get pregnant (you know where this is going). One night we were having sex, and she held me down while I was about to climax. I immediately started panicking and said we needed emergency contraceptive. She told me she took the emergency contraceptive and it made her very sick. Told me she hadn't had periods for a while

She kept wanting to have sex with me, but I did not. I felt obligated. She turned me on, but something felt off about her.

Long story short. Now she's pregnant, wouldn't have an abortion, won't consider adoption... .and is emotionally blackmailing me, manipulating me, trying to extort me and trapping me.

She got a divorce 2 days ago.

It's clear to me that this was all planned on her part.

We went to a counselor together and the counselor suggested a sperm donor agreement, as she claims that she is unable to have children and that is why she has to keep the child.

She signed the agreement... .but says it won't hold up in court. And she continues to cause me problems.

I am at the end of my rope. I live in a nice place alone right now, and am seeing a counselor and family attorney tomorrow... .but I feel like I have been raped of my soul. I thought I was helping this woman, and she helping me... .but now I realize it was just a trap and that I've been taken advantage of in the worst way I could every imagine.

I have no real legal recourse. Essentially this woman just stole a child, my life force, and several hundred thousands of dollars for me... .and she will get away with it, because no court will support me... .I've done a lot of research.

I can't get full custody and I don't want to coparent because I know she will just make my life hell and I can't save a child from the psychological torture that will ensue.

I am going to have a quarter of my income taken away and given to this devious woman. Who will abuse this poor child, and there is nothing I can do about it. She tries to use the unborn child as a hostage and my fear of homelessness to extort me in to a rs, and when I say no to that... .money down the road.

i won't be able to save money for a home, retirement, get myself out of a bit of debt, enjoy myself, stay in this nice place. My quality of life is going to go way down... .and hers is going to go up... .she gets a baby so she can "fit in with her friends" "experience the joy of motherhood" and get empathy in her "retail job".

She says that she needs to know where I stand with her so she knows whether this is "family" or "business". She actually calls it "business".

She signed the sperm donor agreement, but now has signers remorse. I know she's going to come after me for every penny and she will manipulate the judge and child courts in to thinking she's the victim.

She was even married and living with her husband at the time... .but I think the fact that they were "separated" means she can take action against me.

I know it's my fault for trusting someone with  Red Flag s... .but this is the only situation I've heard of where a con-artist can get away with theft and deception and the victim is the one whose punished... .well the child as well.

Once again, there is no way I can get full custody or convince her to give up the child for adoption, because she will lose her bargaining chip... .her "business".

I am so sick. I just want to crawl in to a hole and die. This law needs to change. I am not a basketball player, or a celebrity... .i was someone looking for a place to live so I could get my own studio and recover from the PTSD that has been triggered recently... .

Panic attacks, nightmares, fight or flight... .I have no choice about the matter. This psycho stole my life force and she is going to make me pay while she mistreats the child and there is nothing I can do about it because she is a cunning manipulator, delusional, and probably excited at the fact that she will have a child that can't get away from her... .like her dad who hung himself in the closet, her abusive husband, and now me.

I made a mistake... .and I am sorry. But my life is so over in 6.5 months. My life is gutter status. I will have to move in to a poor neighborhood to fund the abuse of my child. I don't want to know this child, because she will use my love as a weapon to extort and terrorize me.

I hate myself for doing this. Why am I so naive? I've been cheated on by BPD over and over, conned by shady business partners, and I was so close to surviving and getting the life I wanted... .and now this parasite is about to suck the life and money out of me.

I am so stupid guys. I am such a fool. What a moral strangling... .i feel like Im being strangled by my morals. Like Im just doomed no matter what I do. Im tired of being a martyr, or an example of what not to do. I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me, but I don't want my life to be a giant example of what not to do.

I try so hard to be a good person. I went to counseling for over a year. I tried not to be codependent. I try to be healthy selfish, but help others. I try to have a good attitude.

But this is the most tragic and awful situation I've ever encountered... .I just feel numb. I don't care about anything anymore.

I love humanity... .but I keep getting snaked... .and I wish I had more street smarts. I don't want to pay this woman to abuse this child. The governemnt will force me to. I want to find adoptive parents. She wants a little hostage... .and I gave it to her... .and it's my genes.

(well to be proved by dna test).

Anyways, I just have nothing else to say. I am so sick. I know I shouldn't have believed her and shouldn't have slept with her. I am so stupid.

Don't be like me. Save yourselves. My life is just over. And this poor child is going to be born in to a selfish hell and there's nothing I can do about it.

(this is coming from a person whose mother most likely has BPD/npd... .recovering codependent w/ PTSD... .and ruined entrepreneur)

The dream is officially dead.

Stoic

I am so sorry this happened to you and that you feel so trapped.  It is a difficult situation to be in.  It seems like when you got to Portland there were a lot of dysfunctional people there.  But there are lots of normal, good people in the world, too - many of whom have had to deal with BPD's and hard things and are just looking for someone kind.  It takes a while to find them, I know.

You mentioned your only solution - you don't want to coparent with this person.  It will drag you down.  So you may have to go somewhere else and start over.  I'm not sure what the 'sperm donor agreement' means - maybe that you don't have to pay for this child if you give up rights to that person?  Just make sure you are comfortable with that too.  You can still leave and refuse to have anything to do with the kid without giving up permanent legal rights, unless that's what you want.  It sounds like that's what you want, whih is fine.  The child may hae a better shot if he/she isn't being used to get your attention. 

You say your life is over in 6.5 months.  It is typical of these illness for the sufferer to catastrophize.  Yes, it is a tough situation.  However, you have - again - already said you don't want anything to do with her or the kid, and it may be healthier for you to get away.

So really the big problem is giving away some of your income, and you are nearly broke.  That is a tough thing.  But in the end, it's money, right?  You don't have a lot.  But consider this a new chance to make a start.  Maybe you can go to a new city, get involved with a program, get a job, and slowly rebuild. 

It's good you're going to an attorney.  Maybe see a T too.  Please please don't feel your life is over.  I noticed that you write very intelligently - many people don't - so obviously you have good education and good prospects to have a better life.  You've met some sucky people.  We all have.  Now you can chart a new course.

First, take some deep breaths.

A DNA test will eventually prove or disprove whether you're the parent.  There's a real possibility her husband is the actual father, so you may not end up 'stuck' after all.  Once the baby is born then you need to determine scientifically whether you are the father - or not.

The flip side is that you can try to make the most of a bad situation with her.  If you have a child, no court will block you from having parenting time.  Well, unless you fall apart, crash and burn and she can get the professionals and court to view you as perpetrating child abuse, child neglect or child endangerment.

Yes, you have an uphill struggle but you are not beaten down and hopeless unless you choose to live that way.  Your choice... .proactively take charge of your life, such as it is, or choose abdication and victimhood.

Please see this as Tough Love.  Life is what you make of it, not what it does to you.

Yes, a good point, it might not be your kid.  It was only a couple of times, right?  It would have had to be on the two days she was ovulating.  It might be her husband's kid.

You are worrying that she can come after you for every penny, and what a judge will think.  Well, you never know.  This may all work out just fine. 

Ideally, what would you want to happen?  Do you really want anything to do with the kid?

You say you are in a nice place now.  Maybe you can stay and this will all blow over.

A lot can happen in 6 months, too.  So keep your eyes open.  Also, maybe have a tape recorder on whenever you are talking to her in case she says something really scary or tries to make some false claim against you.  If she is that erratic, it's an idea.

It may not seem like you have options but you do. You can choose to let this ruin you or do as others have said and pick yourself up and take charge. I was thinking the same thing as others, you cannot be sure if this is even your child. If I were you I would cut all contact with this woman until the baby is born and a paternity test is done.

You have 6.5 months until that time, go NC and use that time to get yourself to a better place mentally/emotionally, seek T now and continue to go, get your money situation in order as best you can before the baby arrives and lastly decide what involvment you want with the child should it turn out to be yours. If you decide to be involved and be a father to the child then think of a plan now , it won't always go smoothly but it will be better than throwing up your hands now and trying to deal with it in the heat of the moment. You have options, some of them suck some don't, don't just focus on the ones that suck.

stoic83, your life is not over.  It may not be going as you thought it was supposed to... .but we all make our choices and not knowing what we were getting into often ... .the truth of the matter is that when it looks abysmal, if you just keep an open mind, there are always that glass of full that you can focus on.  Being a dad myself, I know that you may not want the child that is arriving ... .but be patient and see how your heart experiences his/her arrival and you may just reclaim your life force back when experience that.  This is just one of the things that your mindset can turn around.  Many things can happen every day and many things can turn your life around... .so be patient, establish boundaries with the woman who you are dealing with right now.  Take it slow and focus on your survival day to day and don't think beyond tomorrow.  If you start to plan all the things out in one day, it is simply too much to handle for anyone.  Everyday is a gift, no matter how bad of situation that we are in... .  best wishes to you and hope things get better every day for you.

anyway, she did have sex with you while she was married.  are you SURE she was separated?  you may be making the same mistake I often do with my ex - even though you know he/she lies a lot, you still believe certain lies.  she could have made that up.  in any case, doesn't look too good for her to be doing that while still married.

You guys... .

I am so thankful for your support. There is a chance the child is not mine, because she is a deceptive person. However... .she had an app on her phone and she pinned me down during sex... .which was a turn on at the time... .but afterwards I just wanted to cry and was panicking.

I completely shut down emotionally... .I felt like a zombie. The whole point of moving to Portland was to start fresh after the man stole over 12k from a company I started... .poured my blood sweat and tears in to... .and I was evicted.

I think I have learned helplessness... .from growing up in a psychologically abusive household. I asked for help at work and from family... .but it was too subtle. I stayed at her home because I had no where else to go, and just like my exwBPD she seemed so caring and sweet initially.

I fell in to her trap. I can't reason with her at all.

I just don't know how many more traumas i can handle. I was emotionally blackmailed by  my exwBPD over and over again... .threatened with suicide, false accusations, smear campaigns, homicide.

I have so much empathy for the mentally ill... .but I don't want to be in this situation anymore. I am reaching for acceptance... .but now when anyone tries to come up to me on the street... .especially a woman, my chest tightens up and I become so scared.

I think it would be better for a child to be raised by a mentally unfit mother alone then to experience the dichotomy of being split between two people. I saw what it did to my friend, and he was an alcoholic and suicidal. He hated his mom and loved his dad.

His dad always lived in crappy places because he had to pay his mom... .and his mom brought weird men home and was completely negligent and irrational.

His dad paid for his mom's life... .the dad seemed sad all of the time. he did the best he could, but when a woman like that has majority custody and child support it creates a terrible situation for the child... .she's being enabled to mistreat the child... .she gets a second income.

I don't want to be forced by the courts to enable the mistreatment of a child. I want this child to be adopted in to a loving and stable home.

If it wasn't for her... .I would take full custody.

I can't coparent with her. She is going to psychologically harm this child, and there is nothing I can do about it.

I will focus on myself... .and wait to see what happens.

She signed the sperm donor agreement, and she told my counselor she lied to me about being married and that I did not consent to fathering a child with her.

I will ask the attorney what to do, but I'm worried he is going to create more paranoia in me because it's financially lucrative of him to make me fearful.

Luckily, I'm seeing the T this afternoon. So she can help me gain clarity.

I am so worried that continuing to experience PTSD is going to damage my brain and my ability to have  healthy relationships.

Thanks for you advice and help.

I try to be a person of high integrity and I just want what's right for everybody.

I am trying to rebuild my life right now... .and I don't want kids.

Also, my fear is that if I become emotionally attached she will use my love as a weapon... .to try to hurt me.

There really is no winning with this type of personality... .I've tried everything with my ex... .I think this woman has more going for her, but even if she is HFBPD, or ASPD... .I almost feel that's worse, because she can fool everybody. She fooled me... .and I told myself, never again.

Thank you all so much. I care about humanity and it's really sad that we live in a system that enables people to use children as weapons, profit centers, and objects for personal gratification.

I view having a child as charity... .like you are in a good position in life, and ready to pass it on to someone new. I am not in that position.

I have a lot of healing and growth to do, and I need to be very careful in the woman I choose to start a family with due to a history of severely psychologically abusive women including my mother, my sister, and ex girlfriends.

Thanks again.

Stoic

Stoic

Do an internet search on the topic of married women having affairs... .  It does seem each state has its own set of laws and case law, so you need experienced local family law attorneys to advice you of the risks, the legalities, your rights and your legal rights as a potential father.

Here's an example from Michigan... . (http://www.jeannehannah.typepad.com/blog_jeanne_hannah_traver/2005/04/what_are_the_ri.html)


Some states default to viewing the husband as the legal father, especially if the husband doesn't contest it in a timely manner.  However, a factor can be that if the biological father has a meaningful relationship with the child then his rights might be recognized.  It can get very complicated, so do see a few experienced family law attorneys in your state so you can determine with reasonable confidence what your options are should the baby be your biological child.

I'm thinking that if you were able to pay off the husband for him to leave then it's possible they were complicit together in conning you out of money back then and perhaps again if you can be convinced the baby is yours when it isn't or might not be.  Clearly she is unstable and will be an unstable mother, but whether there was design to it, who knows?  It may not matter now which it was, except to keep your eyes wide open and be legally informed.

I saw an attorney who said that the husband will be assumed the father but can get out of it with paternity tests at which point she will be able to go after me for child support.

He also said that the courts will view me as somebody with deep pockets... .and that she will try to get the maximum. That an infant needs day care so she can work and that I will probably be forking out over 1000 dollars a month.

I just survived homelessness after my company was robbed of all of it's money by a malignant narcissist.

The lawyer says "it's bad luck. bad karma".

Hope the therapist helps.

It doesn't have to end up like it did with your one friend.  I do think being involved in the child's life may be too much trauma for you right now.  Instead of suffering for six months, if you are able to set boundaries, than do it if you have to.  No one said you had to be involved.  If you are worried about the kid, maybe you can preserve some rights but not be involved for a while.  It's just too much for you to handle, it seems.

That said, what you're going through doesn't have to be the end of the world.

Also, this woman may be a better mom than you think - you never know!

stoic, I think all Nons have some self reflection to do.  I reviewed my past and I think I had tendency to be attracted to people who PDs …. so I am learning how to associate that "attraction" with "negative experiences" as I am going through right now.  Hopefully, if my NPDw gets better, I will survive.  Otherwise, I at least know how to stay away from toxic people with PDs.  Get away from as many as I can.  I see your experiences seem to keep having you getting into trouble with people who are dysfunctional.  But those are great learning experiences, I think if you can sort out your experiences and learn from them … you will be a much better person at the end of the day.  I am not an attorney, but it may be worth it try to get full custody of the child if you think that would make your life easier.  I think the toughest thing for you going forward would be setting boundary with her with your future child in the picture.  I dunno … perhaps if you have such a fear about her PD, you can present it as an abusive relationship and maybe put a retrain order and keep a healthy distance?  I think many who decide to stay with PDs are experiencing what you are going through… the smear campaign is definitely part of the deal and that can even escalate to accusations that could have you end up in jail.  So be careful and keep your distance, to me I come to accept it and I do not worry about things that I can not control… easy said then done…. but I am doing it and there are moments that I do feel completely helpless and wonder that what did I do to deserve this.  Then again, what did any nons here do to deserve this?  so when I know I am not alone, it allows me to put everything in perspective and deal with it one day at the time.  Be good to yourself and not to blame yourself for the past.  Look forward only and if we could only be perfect in pick and choosing relationships, everyone would have live happily there after … so we are not alone.  Hang in there and I hope your PTSD gets more manageable … it is definitely tough with all the drama going on. 

If you're that poor, then gather the evidence to present.  It will be ok.

Dear bpdfamily,

I don't entirely know how to handle this situation. I met with her last night and she just still wants to be with me. The thing is I can't afford the 1k+ month the state would charge me. The income discrepancy is too great. It seems like being on good terms with her is the best way to go... .but it is hard knowing that she intentionally deceived me, and took advantage of my heart.

I told her I would try to focus on her happiness of being pregnant and not on my anger.

I hope she realizes her mistakes. She says that going to the courts isn't an option for her because no matter what she will always care about me; but, I don't trust her.

I slept with her last night. I felt it was the wrong thing to do but I did it anyways. I don't even know what I am doing anymore. I am trying to rationalize this and it just isn't working.

It's becoming clear she doesn't have a lot of integrity... .I don't know what to do, but it's just not right... .any of it.

I know I shouldn't have slept with her... .some part of me wants some control over the situation. My T says she thinks that my having a romantic RS deludes me in to thinking that I have some control over this situation.

I just feel trapped. I can't afford the child support. It won't allow me to save any money for my own well-being and stability.

She has tunnel vision and she is just zeroed in on me.

What can I do? I know that what I'm doing is wrong and that it shows weak boundaries. I just can't afford the child support and so maybe if I just give her little tastes of me... .it will be enough to stop her from going that route.

I can't carry on like this for the rest of my life. I just don't want to be a prisoner to another person either physically or financially.

I am trying to take a higher path. That despite her sick behaviors, that I care about her. In fact I care about all people with mental illness. That doesn't mean I want to be a martyr.

Please don't shame me... .I just don't want this to ruin my life. I want choices over my money, freedom, and who I am in a relationship with.

What can I do?

Stoic

We have all done things like this.  It takes a long time to set those boundaries.  I am still working on it.  Many of us are.  But thinking that if you just do this or that, it will protect you in the long run, it may not work.  You will cause problems and end up paying child support anyway (if that's what she wants.)  I do this kind of thing a lot - think I can control the situation a bit by saying this or that to exH, and yes, I'll admit, it DOES work to a point.  It keeps him calm, keeps him from being too angry.  So yes, for you it probably works to a point too.  But if you think it will keep her from asking for child support 6 months or a year from now, I don't know, it seems like you're walking on eggshells and you could sleep with her for 6 months, not be there one night when she wants you there, and then she'd get angry anyway.  Not sure it's worth it.  It's a mental illness and won't always follow rhyme or reason.  No one will shame you for sleeping with her.  If you still have feelings for her and can't help it, well, it's hard to overcome that.  Be careful - you know she is deceptive.  For all you know, she had a miscarriage and is trying to get pregnant again!  (Don't worry, that seems unlikely and her body would be recovering now anyway.  But just saying.)  You can control the situation a little bit, but not completely.  :)id she already sign something saying she won't come after you for child support?  

You are stuck on this $1,000 a month figure.  If you will never be able to be stable because of that, maybe the courts would see it that way too.  Also, courts try to encourage couples to decide this in mediation rather than court.  Maybe you can get off with a few hundred.  Or maybe nothing.  Try not to worry - it's money.  

Momtara has a valid points.

• You can't control the situation, at most you may moderate it for a while but for how long is unknown.  Are you going to try to mollify her for the next 18.5 years?



• What if... .she was never pregnant or even lost the baby?  She could very well be trying to get pregnant again.



• What if... .you stay with her to 'manage' her and she senses you might be preparing to leave, what's to stop her from conning you into unprotected sex again and making even more babies?



• Even if she's not trying to get pregnant, people with BPD are extremely Needy.  Their Neediness makes them clingy but getting close also feeds their fears of abandonment and triggers the wild swings of emotions and push/pull - for example, one book written by a recovered pwBPD is titled "I Hate You, Done Leave Me!"

She is still married, isn't she?  Is she going to stay married or divorce?  Realistically, she's an adult, you can't make her do (or not do) anything.  And what's the story with her husband?  (Is he her legal husband or did he just claim to be?)  Is he a co-conspirator, an enabler, a past target simmering on the back burner for when she wants him back, or what?

Child support - she may not be legally required to comply with any paper promises to not seek child support.  Maybe the Sperm Donor paperwork is binding but it sounds like the lawyer said it really isn't binding.  It may even be inapplicable since SD may imply or require no sexual contact, I just don't know.  In addition, if she goes on welfare, medicaid or other assistance then the state may come after you as the father to get reimbursement of some of their aid costs.

Do you have proof she's pregnant?

If she has integrity issues, wouldn't you want to fact check that this is true?

You wouldn't be the first guy to be bamboozled into thinking you're the dad.

Yes I have proof she's pregnant. I saw the ultrasound.

No I am not 100% sure it is mine... .but she sure seems like she thinks it is.

Honestly, I am pretty sure it is... .because she pinned me down and wouldn't let me move during a period of time and she has an app on her phone that told her cycles.

She told me she had PCOS and wasn't fertile. She seemed like a nice person. Had 2 cats and dogs... .told me she was an "empath".

Yes it's possible that her husband/ex-husband is a co-conspirator. My dad wants me to go to the police department and talk to the "criminal plot" department, but I don't think that will help my situation.

Honestly... .it's money... .and the fact that I don't get to choose who I have children with... .and that I can't afford it.

I was about to work on a project to recover my company... .I just don't care anymore.

This is such a bummer. I can't enjoy life anymore. The thought of having to care for a small child right now really bothers me. I don't want to be a father right now and I don't want to pay this woman over 1k a month for nothing. The fact that I have had my life stolen away from me sickens me.

I want to enjoy life... .not sacrifice for a baby... .who knows what she's going to do when it's born?  She's unpredictable. She didn't care what I wanted for my life. I'm just a ___ing paying sperm bank.

Im not sure if I even want to live anymore. I mean she said her single mom went to school off of SI benefits from her father's suicide. Maybe the same thing happened to him?

I don't know... .anyways I'm an idiot. This must be karma. I'm so stupid to have trusted her. I hardly knew her... .and according to society I deserve a 500k fine and forced contact with a lunatic and her sure to be lunatic offspring for the next 2 decades. When I'm done I will be 50 years old... .a senior citizen practically. I'm sure they will both hate me as I fund their existence... .working tirelessly for their benefit while I live in a crappy place and just go to work/sleep.

What a ___ life and a ___ society. If I were in nature there'd be nobody to force me to have parasites. Maybe I should just move to the jungle. A lion would never stand for this bull___.

"and she has an app on her phone that told her cycles."

1.  She told you she couldn't get pregnant, and yet, she was charting her cycles with an APP.  And yet, you believe her.  People with PD's are VERY convincing.  :)on't be so sure of anyting she says.

2.  I know you think you are facing insurmountable odds.  Now you say nothing feels like it matters.  You sound depressed.  However, there are many worse things - look on the bright side.  You didn't just lose a family member.  You didn't lose a limb.  You can still do so much.  It probably won't be as bad as you think... .it doesn't have to be.  This is a tough time for you because it's all new.  It will get better once you understand the path.

stoic83,

You sound like you're in shock. If you have PTSD, it's probably hard to ground yourself, so you're drawn to catastrophizing and feeling overwhelmed and beaten down. The majority of the people here have felt the same way, and most of us have kids, so we know exactly what it is you fear -- we live it.

But your biggest foe right now isn't an unborn child and $1000/month child support payments. It's you. A man who starts his own business is resourceful. Something in your radar is broken when it comes to people with PDs, and you're seeing a therapist to help you work through this. That takes courage and strength. You have everything you need to heal and pull yourself together and overcome this. But you are writing the final chapter before you've developed the plot and the characters. Catastrophizing like that is a bigger problem than the one you're fixating on.

There are so many unknowns to your situation and millions of variables you can't predict. You are fixating on the worst aspects, which might be part of your PTSD. One thing missing from your projections, and one that you can't even begin to imagine, is how you might feel when you see and hold your child. The battle to raise a healthy child in spite of my disordered ex is one of the most powerful things that has ever happened to me. It's entirely one hundred percent driven by love, and I have no idea where it comes from, except that it's not negotiable. It wasn't a choice I made. It just happened. You can't connect to that right now because you haven't experienced it yet. Maybe it won't happen, maybe it will. Maybe it won't happen right away, and instead comes gradually.

A lot of us here have, for one reason or another, arrived where we are because something was emotionally not whole. When you go through the healing process with your eyes wide open and committed to it despite the deep, raw emotions pooling around inside, you become whole. You just do. I could never do that without having a child -- I'm too stubborn, too controlled, too masterful with my coping mechanisms to do the really hard work. I needed to love someone like I do my son to learn what I needed to learn, and I needed a really challenging situation so I could crack through the egoic garbage and heal some leftover stuff from childhood. Maybe the same will happen for you, and you'll find strength inside you didn't know you had because you love someone unconditionally. If you can do that for someone else, you can learn how to do that for yourself. You become motivated to raise a healthy child and that means figuring out what it means to be emotionally healthy. Hardest thing I've ever done, and the most meaningful and rewarding.

You can choose to let this be your greatest lesson and learn what it has to teach, not just morally, but in every other way. You went from one PD to another, so something wasn't connecting for you in your healing. That's how it works. First, you get a tap. Then you get a punch to the shoulder. Then you get a body slam. Then the grenade next to your foot goes off. Then a house drops on your head. At some point, you sit up and pay attention and stop running away. This might be that moment for you.

The irony of all this, at least for me, is that my personal life was at an all-time low and my career, almost without any input from me, took off in a way I could never have predicted. You need to focus on right now, this moment, this chapter. Gather facts, talk to a lawyer ($50 for 30 minutes in some states), get a paternity test, keep posting here, talk to your therapist, and start drawing on the strength and resourcefulness inside you.

Everyone has a burden and this is yours. Use it to heal.

LivednLearned has become an astounding resource here, she's been through h*ll and survived intact and stronger, she really knows how to identify the issues and phrase so well what a person needs to do to make recovery and take his/her life back.  Print this out, place it somewhere where it is safe from prying eyes and intrusions and yet where you'll read it daily or whenever you're feeling crushed and lost.  Share it with your counselor.  The admonition and guiding light combo above is vital for you to see the bigger picture.

livenlearned, well said.  Stoic83, everything happens may not always for the best, but definitely not always for the worst.  Livenlearned said it very well.  keep things in perspective.  Keep in mind that everyone on this board have experienced or experiencing something comparable to your situation ... .may not be identical, but definitely difficult and that is what draws us to this board.  I have to say that people like Livenlearned takes out time to answer and keep things in perspective have been very helpful for me.  I used to have all these worst case scenarios and sometimes "not worst enough" ... .many on this board have offered their advice and keep us not feeling alone.  So you are not alone and things will not always be as bad as you imagine it... .hang in there and then something good may happen.

Wow... .thanks guys.

Livednlearned... .your post was really beautiful. You are an amazing writer.

Thank you so much for sharing with me. Honestly, I wish I was a woman right now. I just feel like I have no control over anything. It's so frightening to be a man in this situation. Society tends to view women as the weaker sex, and I understand that a lot of times women are the victims of abuse.

I am a strong man. Everything I've read has said that people with PD's prey on the weak. But, I am really resilient. I keep getting knocked down, and I get back up.

I don't think there is anything wrong with my radar. Something inside me has the inability to act in the face of danger. It's like I'm mesmerized by disordered individuals, and I want to trust them... .

I think the problem is... .I just don't trust myself. It's really hard to these days. I know that if I wasn't in such a low place, I never would've met this woman.

It just seems like I'm way too trusting of women... .especially when they complain about abuse. It just makes me want to help. I can't explain it.

This seems like a popular way for women with PD's to sucker men in. I don't really desire to feel like a hero. I just feel their pain so deeply... .I can't explain it.

I draw a lot of disordered women to me like this... .I care about them. It's my biggest downfall.

After a lot of counseling, I have no problem saying to a woman... .look, I care about your feelings, but I care about my life more.

It actually seems to be making an impact.

In any case, I'd like to think that all my experiences with PDs is preparing me for something important. Maybe this is that important thing.

I'm not really sure.

I do know that men and women are quite different when it comes to bonding with children. My fear is that I would just care too much about the child... .and would be afraid to leave him/her alone with her... .

It seems like maybe I just need to walk away from the situation and blame it on chaos theory.

I'm too sensitive to deal with an emotional terrorist with a child being involved. I'm too protective.

I really care for all of you. I'm very sorry for all the pain you've experienced. I wish there was a better system in place to protect both adults and children from this type of torment.

I have my own place now and I am safe for the time being. I will continue to seek legal counsel and also try to stay on good terms with the woman. My aunt and uncle are both child psychologists and they think I can handle this, but I'm not so sure.

I also am not sure if I care as much about the whole genetic content thing as others do. I think human beings are all connected. I think a lot of the behaviors we engage in on a day to day basis are primitive... .and I just can't relate as much as others can.

It's very lonely... .

Thanks for the support guys. It's really, really, really hard and I thought I had put this behind me. Clearly it's just begun.

Stoic

I think the idea of not wanting to share this baby with a BPD woman, and worrying you'll care too much - it's a geniune thing to consider.  I don't think anyone should guilt you into caring about the child or being in his/her life.  It's something you have to decide for yourself.  I don't think it's selfish for you to want to be away from that madness.  And you are also considering that being around the child may just cause the mother to act out against you and may cause more chaos.  All of this is hard to predict.  You have a lot of decisions to make, but if you are not emotionally capable of being involved with the child, that's a legitimate thing to consider.  I'm not sure you should give up all rights - you may regret it.  Maybe you could move away and have occasional visitations, or whatever - enough so that you still are in the kid's life, just not in the mom's life.  All things to consider, and yes, it's a lot.  You know, maybe she has a criminal record, history of suicide attempts, etc - these things may be public record or in the records of her divorce from her ex, who has likely also dealt with madness.

By the way, of course it matters whether you are genetically the dad.  And there are tests before birth to determine that too, not sure if she'd be willing to take them. 

you may regret not having some role in your child's life.     please look at the glass half full.    having a child is a great experience.    and ensuring the child has a positive figure in his life may help him/her better deal with a psycho mom.     my experience is not that different than yours, and my decision to be part of my child's life (although difficult with the mom) is the best decision ever for me and for my son.   

The above are excerpts from 3 separate posts by 3 separate members on 3 different boards here in the past month, all use the same illustration and all make the same point:  In order for things to get better you have to start by taking care of yourself first.  And frankly, you may not notice an improvement in yourself until you've been working on yourself for a while.  Think of "the watched pot never boils" analogy.  So don't get or stay discouraged.  Just do the grunt work and before long you'll be surprised to notice that things really are looking up.  Maybe your situation won't have improved by much yet but your perceptions and your perspective of your situation has improved.

How do you take care of yourself?  (By getting over the cycle of self-blaming that really isn't productive... .)

• Local support such as trusted friends and family.  Not mutual friends or the other's family, no, your friends and your family.



• Mental resources.  Find an experienced counselor or therapist for yourself.



• Legal resources.  Find a family law attorney who has practical strategies for you.



• Peer support and resources, such as here.  Yes, we are remote and relatively anonymous but we do case and what we learned from those before us we pay forward to those arriving.

Hey Guys,

There's clearly no way out of this situation without some unpleasant feelings. I am in a safe environment alone with my dog. I talk to my aunt and uncle who are lovely people and child psychologists. I have made a friend at work.

I have a therapist whose trying to help me. As time passes I will speak with another attorney. The last one I spoke with did nothing but raise fears within me. He was a dirtbag.

When the pathological Narcissist robbed my company... .assaulted and battered me. He wanted to "negotiate" equity for himself. I said, "I do not negotiate with terrorists".

This woman is a terrorist. She has heartbreaking leverage over me... .the one thing I have learned when being extorted or blackmailed by emotional terrorists, is to disengage.

I am trying to do this with her. She has no self awareness in to her lying, manipulation, etc... .I try to give her the gift of self-awareness but it isn't  helping.

She says she is in counseling and tells me things about her sessions. It doesn't sound like her counselor is bring self-awareness to her actions, merely helping her cope with her reality.

I am seeing her on Sunday evening.

The last I saw her, I told her that as a "sperm donor" I could provide contact with her child so that he/she would know their biological father. I also said that she could look at me as a caring friend.

I am trying to defuse any abandonment rage within her... .and also control the situation so that she doesn't go to the courts. Honestly, the longer I can delay her taking action against me the better. Remember, I was technically homeless and on food stamps 4 months ago due to the embezzlement.

Going to the courts would be a major loss for me, as it would put my entire life plan in jeopardy. I am not a "corporate" guy... .I am an entrepreneur and I take risks so that I can try to invent new things and help society.

One major fear of mine, is that she will go to the courts and they will put a number on me that is commensurate to what i am making right now, removing the financial freedom that I have to make choices that would positively impact my future, as well as many others. I know what my role is in society... .I am a leader and I need to use my natural abilities to help the economy and help others. I am not a "baby daddy" "sugar daddy" "codependent loser". It seems like this is what our justice system feels that I should be that for being deceived and robbed of my choices.

The pipe dream of starting a side business, working 40-50 hours a week, and raising a child... .is not possible. Also, if my "extra" money all goes to this woman and her child, I won't be able to save any money and I will be trapped in the corporate world, trapped by the government, trapped by this woman.

I am very resourceful... .but I don't intend to rent out a room or go live in my car or a trailer. I have worked very hard to climb out of the gutter and all I care about right now is my own self-healing and comfort. This "healthy-selfishness" is now being threatened by this emotional terrorist and the "little hostage" inside her tummy.

I feel a little better, getting some distance from the situation. I cleaned up my place a little last night and took a bath.

I am throwing myself in to my work and doing a great job... .so despite my panic attacks and "episodes" at work... .I am maintaining stability the best that I can.

I am trying hard to take care of myself and to take my mind off of this... .honestly, I just don't want any more trauma in my life. I am like a badly damaged plant and I need SUN and WATER so that I can be healthy again.

No matter what. I will not let the injustices of another or society dictate what I feel is right. I have some time to think about it... .

Until then I am trying to stay on good terms with her... .and put up boundaries to protect myself. I have to remember that she is a SICK person. That she isn't necessarily malicious... .just acting out of desperartion, and has poor impulse control due to an improper frontal lobe.

What can I do to make things better? If i am a true leader... .how can I get her to fall in line without giving up what I want in life? Not by control... .by example... .by boundaries... .she is a child herself in many regards.

Maybe this is a test.

Kindly,

Stoic

Don't know if your lawyer went over this with you -

In my state, you have to fill out this detailed financial form that goes into everything, including how much money you spend doing your laundry every week, on therapy, etc.  So you may not just be charged based on your income.

"I am trying to defuse any abandonment rage within her... ."

I think that is a good thing.  Also, delaying the courts is ok if you think it will help you get to a better place.

But remember, if this is not your kid, she doesn't have this leverage you speak of.  I wonder if you are also delaying leaving just because you have feelings for her.  You would not be the first, nor would you be judged for it.

stoic83, perhaps let go your idealized life plan … and start to remind yourself that life is what happens when you are planning it.  Yes, it is a cliche but sometimes people do forget.  I wanted my life to unfold differently, but here I am dealing with stuff that I really don't want to deal with along with 99.999% of people on this forum.  Yeap, once again, you are not alone and don't your PD ex-girlfriend rob your joy of life … you got lots of room to be happy if you can marginalize your experiences with her going forward.  Many smart people said smart things on this thread.  I think the best thing that PDs done for nons is that they made us philosophers.  Someone once said that thank your enemy for what they can bring out of you.  That is self discovery and not many people get to have that during this lifetime.  Best luck to you.

Stoic, I have had nearly the EXACT same thing happen to me.

She couldn't have kids and was actually on the pill.

Then fell pregnant, and threatened to tell my family if I didn't - she didn't even know my family.

I lived in a small town surrounded by family, who all rallied around her during her pregnancy.

In the end I moved out of the town due to her basically replacing me in my own family.

Then she told everyone I want nothing to do with my son, tried to make out we were in a relationship - I only slept with her 5-6 times.

So I understand your frustration, anger and despair.

These people want us to just give up and not fight, that is why they pick us - thanks for coming kind of thing.

And as easy as it is to get angry and lash out physically, that is also perfect for them.

In my experience, not many psychologists really understand the situation, they were just like "She sounds disordered".

But I have started seeing a forensic psychologist who really understands.

I understand your point about emotional abuse with the children.

When I realised 3 years ago that the courts weren't going to help me I started studying psychology - now in my 3rd years.

So in my instance, I felt exactly like you - that life had ended - but I thought if I could become a psychologist then maybe oneday I could help my son. I wouldn't of decided to study if I hadn't hit rock bottom.

So try find some positives out of this dreadful situation and empower yourself to become the man you want to be.

Life is far from over my friend.

hi stoic. you've received excellent and heartfelt advice from everyone on this thread. may i point to a few positives?




family, doggie, friend, therapist, work, a lawyer to come. that's a whole lot. please remind yourself of that. you've got support. you're still connected.

one other item:


please try not to add to your concerns by taking on goals that can't be satisfied. you can't give a gift to someone who doesn't know it's a gift. she may in fact feel patronized by your perfectly decent efforts and then get worse. see to your own situation. and keep posting here!

To those who posted.

She wasn't even my girlfriend. Just someone I've dated. I had nowhere else to go. I was in a park after having to leave the living situation I was in... .and ready to stay in a motel.

I thought it was a win/win... .I help her with rent and getting her abusive separated husband out of her house, and I have a less expensive place to stay than a motel... .and I didn't have to rent a room from strangers.

Ended up being the biggest mistake of my life.

My family doesn't support her in the slightest. My mom and dad absolutely despise her. Call her a low-life.

My Aunt and Uncle are more empathetic... .because being child psychologists they deal with a lot of single mothers and probably feel bad for her. My Uncle said, "the guy just leaves her and the kid and goes off and does whatever"

They are trying to get me to be a father to this child.

I am sharing articles from sheri scheiber and others with them in the hopes they understand. Most people who live a more sheltered life have not come in to contact with these types of characters. If it wern't for the dating site, I never would have met her.

Her plan seems to be somewhat calculated to be honest... .she met me... .took down her dating profile... .kicked her husband out... .had an app on her phone w/ period cycles(found this out after she was pregnant)... .told me it was IMPOSSIBLE for her to get pregnant... .said she took emergency contraceptive... .and then hid the pregnancy/period from me... .after I found out, she emotionally blackmailed me and made graphically violent comments about herself, the baby, and asked me if I could just push her down the stairs... .when I came home all my stuff was packed and ready to go... .she got what she wanted and no longer had a need for me.

She wants me to hang around... .but it's only to maximize the value she can get out of me. She knows if I go NC, she will only get the child support... .and with me she will get a human slave + child support... .so I can understand her dilemma.

I never really liked her, but I thought she was a good person and we were two struggling people helping eachother out.

I complained to my friends at work... .and they said "just a little bit longer" ... ."hang in there". I felt guilty for staying there... .as she seemed obsessive towards me and it gave me the willies... .but after living with other psychos during my journey from homelessness to stability... .it seemed like the lesser of two evils.

Never did I think that she would be able to get her claws in to me for life.

I will focus on the positives. If I can prevent her from going to the courts that might be the best... .as long as it doesn't prevent me from living my life.

I am worried about getting the paternity test... .can i get this privately so that the courts can't obtain record?

Honestly I'd rather pay her a couple thousand a year "cash - with hand written receipts for services rendered" to never be in the system, even if she's just a con-artist and it isn't even mine.

I do NOT want to be in the system.

Stoic

Maybe you can convince her to make a deal.  Most family courts and lawyers want you to make a deal with your ex and not go before a judge.  99 percent of the time, that's what happens.  You may be able to sway her toward accepting a little money or whatever.  But really, it may not be your child.  It is VERY hard to get pregnant from just one time or a few times of having sex, at any age.  Even someone in optimum health has a 25 percent chance if they are having sex at the right times of their cycle, more than once. 

If it is your kid... .well, if you set the right boundaries - and yes, this will take time - you may be able to breathe easy sooner than you think.

Two things... .First, it is not healthy to be married, spouse living in the home and to be on a dating site.  The general rule of thumb is to be out of a relationship and well along the way to recovering/adjusting to the post-relationship life.  Clearly, she didn't wait.  But of course that's not a consideration to a person with BPD behaviors and perceptions.  So yes, her actions do appear calculated.  This is a link to our thread about DrJoeCarver's web site (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56157.msg733115#msg733115) where he uses phrases "users, losers and abusers".  That's in addition to blamers, manipulators, controllers, etc.

Second, are you really sure her husband was abusive?  I mean, above and beyond the reactions of getting rejected and kicked out?  I ask because typical BPD behavior is to claim all past relationships were abusive.  I bet when she is cycled into her hate moods that she calls you abusive too.  I'm not saying he isn't abusive, I'm just saying you can't trust her claims and you can't trust the small window of time you observed him while he was painted bad and as he was being shown the door.


Quite understandable.  But I keep coming back to whether is really is your child or not.  That single fact, as yet unknown, ought to be a huge deciding factor for you.  Once you find out then you know which paths are before you, one to fatherhood at a greater or lesser level - or not.

Beware of obligating yourself before you know wither you're the father.  While you can give general assurances you are there for her and the baby, don't sign any paperwork, not even a birth certificate, until you know the results of a DNA test.  (A DNA test doesn't have to be a huge production, it's just a simple swab of a baby's mouth and yours that is sent off to a laboratory with a few hundred dollars.  It doesn't even have to be a lab used by the local family court, this is for yourself to know which way the wind is blowing.)

And Very Important:  After the baby is born, no more nights of weakness, no more unprotected sex.  One baby (that might not even be yours) is enough, don't risk making more.  As I've often said here:  While children are wonderful blessings, having babies doesn't fix a dysfunctional and unhealthy relationship, all it does is make it vastly more complicated.


I believe if you do it on your own without using court or lawyer involvement that the results would be sent to you and it would be up to you what you did with it.  The benefit of knowing is that if you know you're not the father then she can't pressure you.  And if you are the father then that knowledge too would help you figure out how you would handle things.  It's the "not knowing" that enables the indecision and circular logic that leads to inaction.


If you're not married and not the father then you won't be.

If you get married to her, you are the father or you signed any documents stating you are the father then you may not be able to avoid being in the system.

Foreverdad,

Why would i get married to her? I met her 4 months ago. She's a psycho.

There is a small chance that I am not the father... .but I saw the ultrasound and the timing seems right.

Clearly this was her intention. I don't think there is any legal recourse.

I am currently reading about how if I am the non-custodial parent, I am going to live in a shack and she is going to live in a castle.

I will settle out of court and hopefully that will make her happy... .she already agreed that it would be more fair to calculate off of her income.

I make three times as much as her.

She did sign a sperm donor agreement as my counselor suggested.

We went to my counselor and my counselor told her: "He did not consent. You want to have a child. He does not... .he's a sperm donor. Would you sign an agreement, understand that he might never talk to you again?" She agreed.

The next day after she signed it, she told me it wouldn't hold up in court.

I went to a lawyer and he said it wouldn't hold up in court.

So basically, my counselor tried to help me... .and since she did not tell me of her intentions to use my sperm to impregnate herself I will be funding her life and child against my will.

I'd say that the chances of the child not being mine are very low... .I lived with her and I was a much better target than anyone else.

I am a highly educated, moral, caring, person who was just in a very bad spot due to the embezzlement of the entire bank account of the corporation I started.

It's ironic... .that the initial crime committed against me lead to more crimes committed against me... .leading to me soon living in a shack and funding someone else's life because they were able to find a loophole to manipulate the system.

I am so bummed.

Stoic

Stoic

stoic83, I think your thread is filled with caring and constructive replies.  so I don't really have much to add.  But one thing I hope you keep in mind is that if this child turn out to be yours after DNA testing, then please remember that children in general are innocent.  No matter what kind of drama was behind their arrival to this world, they are powerless and all children deserves most love and care that you can provide.  Please also remind that to your BPDex and make sure she doesn't use her child as a tool to gain attention and sympathy.  You will have to strong and help yourself and that innocent child.  This is just my 2cents and I believe that will also give you a purpose in this unpleasant situation.  Sometimes when we give ourselves in helping another human being, we forget our own troubles. 

I can honestly and unfortunately say I am in your same situation (Almost) I am sorry you are going through this crap too I have been in a fog for the last 11 months and my now ex is a complete b-word. I am sick of trying to please her and her family she allows me to see my (alleged) child for an hr and a half once a week and it takes me an hour to get there and an hour back. I completely hate her and what I find odd is the judge refused to allow me a DNA test saying I am the father do to my involvement and actions. I asked her to allow me a DNA test and she refused saying " You want me to go against judges orders? "  She is scared of something I will do a DNA on my own if I have to.

Did the ultrasound have her name and a date on it?  Just asking because would be very simple for her to get an ultrasound picture off of the internet. 

I think some of you are being a tiny bit hard on him - it is a struggle to coparent with someone with this disorder (as we know) and I can't blame him for having the anxiety, magnified by not expecting this situation.  That said, Stoic, you did get good advice here and your life is not over... .it may change in unique ways.  You seem smart, so just try to see the positives and keep talking to a therapist.

Aww thanks momtara! Last night and this morning I was barraged with phone calls and text messages threatening me... .calling me a "paying sperm donor", telling me that her husband(ex?) says that he wants nothing to do with the "Jew baby", telling me that she's putting my name on all of her medical documents as the father... .telling me she named the child already (a girl)... .but then said it's just a hunch and if it's a boy she's naming him after me.

Texting me at 5 in the morning all morning till 11 AM. I texted PLEASE STOP about 10 times... .but am so scared of her leverage over me that I didn't cut it off. Finally I blocked her number.

I talked to my therapist and she says she thinks if I cut it off completely she will find someone else to give her attention and may forget about me entirely. 6 months is a long time!

T told me she is enflaming the situation, taunting me... .and there is no good that can come of being in touch with her right now. She says a lot can happen between now and then... .T has 15 years of family conflict resolution experience.

Honestly I care so much about human beings but if I can't get full custody, I don't think there is anything I can do for this child. I don't want to be tormented by this woman for the rest of my life and watch her destroy a child's mind with smothering, push/pull, abusive men... .aghhhh!

I think I'd rather have someone pluck every hair out of my head while scratching fingernails on the board for 100 days in a row. I'm so friggining sensitive and protective of children... .it would drive me mad! The child courts will rarely take a child away from the mom.

If i can just frame it as "sperm donor" in my mind, maybe I can save myself a lot of pain. Trust me... .if she has 50%+ of custody of this child, the child will be ruined by this monster. Honestly, even weekends she will destroy a child. I don't want to have children with this women... .I know it's not the child's fault, but how can the courts allow women like this to raise children. Sure she has a job and rental history... .but who ___ing cares. It's a child!

She's one sick puppy, this woman. I've had so many friends come from broken homes... .I don't want a suicidal alcoholic for a child who prefers me to her, triggering her abandonment issues, creating all kinds of high conflict and court issues. I would absolutely crumble

T thinks I need to walk away. This is just chaos theory... .I don't have any control over this woman's actions. She's a maniac! Honestly guys... .I know everyone says that their child is worth the struggle. But there are billions of people in this world.

We can't save them all. I'm so sorry for offending anybody... .I just am scared and don't want to be in therapy for the rest of my life trying to solve an unsolvable problem.

Momatara---I am book smart... .but according to this woman I have no "street smarts". I think that's her way of bragging about doing this to me.

Sick.

Don't let these things she is saying get to you.  However, do document them and hold on to the evidence. 

Yes, you are right - very hard to get 100 percent custody.  I fully understand your dilemma and your decision.  T may be right that you should just walk away.  Doesn't mean you have to give up your rights forever.  The child could end up needing a parent some day if she gets into trouble.

"If I can't get full custody, I don't think there is anything I can do for this child. I don't want to be tormented by this woman for the rest of my life and watch her destroy a child's mind with smothering, push/pull, abusive men... .aghhhh!"

You may be right.  It may be best for all of you not to give her license to torment you, or use the kid as leverage.  Try not to engage her when she is harassing you.  (You could get a restraining order but I understand you don't want to go that far yet.)  If she ever makes a physical threat, then you may have to do something.

Thanks for understanding momtara. There are adoptive parents all over the world who provide loving homes and raise healthy children. Sharing genes with someone doesn't mean everything. I love my Aunt and we aren't blood related!

My aunt and uncle couldn't have children and so they adopted two girls from China. They are both child psychologists by the way, and they are being supportive of me.

They are usually with the mother and child so my situation gives them a unique perspective.

I don't think I have records of everything. A lot of it was phone calls. I do have texts but most of them are okay.

Anyways, thanks for validating my feelings. 6 months is a long time to figure things out... .and I don't owe this woman anything.

Stoic

"If I can't get full custody, I don't think there is anything I can do for this child. I don't want to be tormented by this woman for the rest of my life"

I said this exact same thing but in the end i realized as a young adult in my late 20s with no family anywhere near me, it wasn't feasible for me to even attempt to raise a 6 month old girl on my own. Fast forward a few years later and BPDx now has a total of 4 kids by 3 different guys two of which she lost custody of. But it's all going to be okay because the latest baby daddy (alleged) is 100% the love of her life.

I would rather hire a full time nanny than have this sick woman take care of a child and be forced to pay for it.

Unless/until you can convince her to abdicate being a majority-time mother or convince family court that your parenting would be substantively better than hers and/or the child would be substantively abused, neglected or endangered to the level of being considered 'actionable' to the court, you would be facing some level of parenting split between the two of you.

Family court, like most other courts, is set up as an adversarial process which sadly lends itself to the conflict of person with some level of PD, but it does try to find a middle ground.  However, most have concluded that often, though not always, the mother gets unwritten and unstated preference despite the courts' claims of no gender bias.

Right now you're full of the emotions of an unexpected fatherhood.  Give it time for your first reactions to subside, ponder wisely what you will do long term.  You don't know yet if the baby is definitely yours.  You don't know yet whether she will want to parent the baby, give it up for adoption or anything else.  Remember, pwBPD are prone to extreme cycles of perceptions and behaviors.  One consistent pattern is that they are inconsistent, at least in some things.

Since you can't be sure what her long term actions will be, not yet, what about the things that are in your control such as your short term goals?  What is your goal for the next few months?  Can you figure out a way to move out sooner rather than later?  We've noticed your tendency to relapse into intimacy.  The proximity is working against you.  While not trying to antagonize her, can you find ways to live more separated lives?  Remember, she is still married, doesn't matter whether her husband is portrayed to be a nice man or a bad man.  Though her husband is currently gone, you have no way to know for how long.  Using an illustration, she may only have him simmering on the back burner of the stove, he may be moved to the front burner at some point, back in her life.  And it's not your business, she's an adult, he's an adult - and they're married - you can't make anything happen nor can you make anything not happen.

Understand the limits of your situation.  So for now concentrate on yourself, how to attain a better equilibrium, how to determine your options and how to decide which ones are for the best.

She divorced after becoming pregnant... .about 3 weeks ago. He will be the presumed father and need to dispute. They are both low-lifes.

She presented herself as an empath and animal lover and over time her true self presented itself... .as the mask slipped.

I feel bad for her... .but think she would make an awful parent and project her illness on to the child.

I have my own place. I pleaded with her to have an abortion... .she told me she was infertile and it was a lie... .in addition to BPD she is a pathological liar.

She has an entire blog on the internet with violent fantasies, imaginary relationships, and talking about having a kid. It is absolutely psychotic.

When I alerted it to her, she blamed it on her ex-husband... .claiming he must have wrote it all and pretended to be her. It was clearly written by her. She's someone who lies in the face of clear evidence... .disturbing.

I live in my own place and blocked her number. I think I may be able to build a case against her with all of the evidence of her unsuitability for parenting. Her job asked her to move locations because of her obsession with her employee.

In any case... .I have blocked her number and told her to leave me a message if there is anything important and I will get back to her.

I told her she can move on and start dating someone else if she wants (she said she needed closure). In any case my T hopes she will find someone else and forget about taking revenge on me through CSA.

If I can avoid developing an emotional attachment to the child, then my T says she can help me deal with the guilt. If I do develop an emotional attachment... .I will fight and fight and fight.

It might be better for all parties if I just leave. The child suffers of course. But honestly, I think the child may suffer more with the confusion of a custody battle... .perhaps the child will be okay with being raised by crazy people. I don't think so, but since the child courts don't seem to care... .then I guess it's kind of a lost cause.

When a child is born to a uBPD/Psychopathic mother... .there really is no winning unless the courts, I and society can get the child out of her hands and in to a foster home, adoptive family, or a loving father who has the resources to provide independently.

Naturally, she is going to look at this child as "the one who will never abandon her" so the chances of that happening are slim. Aside from a mother's protectiveness, a child in the hands of a BPD is "MINE MINE MINE". Her little doll.

So sick... .it makes me absolutely sick.

And unfortunately I told her exactly what I thought of her on the phone. She was taunting, baiting me to tell her what I really thought of her and I told her exactly what I felt... .and it was horrible.

I feel horrible for the things I said... .but this woman is threatening my livelihood, using the child as a hostage in a "business negotiation", and is a liar with no empathy for me.

I am tired of being nice. She asked what I thought of her and I told her.

She tells me she feels like she "doesn't exist" that she "wants to crawl in to a hole and die"... .I feel awful. I just told a grown child that I thought they were the worst person in the world, scum, a parasite, a gold digger. I told her she needed psychiatric help for her severe love addiction, violent fantasies, and pathological lying.

It's really hard to sympathize with someone when they are threatening you, harrassing you, making anti-semetic comments, manipulating you, taunting you over and over again.

After that convo I called T, and she said she seems like she has a personality disorder.

Do courts care about that?

Stoic

I have created distance and allowed her the means to contact me via voicemail. It was hard to cut her off, but I had to. Her threats, accusations, playing on my fears were absolutely driving me up the wall. I needed a strong boundary.

I mentioned at some point that I never wanted to hear from her again and that she should contact my attorney if she wants anything. I don't have an attorney yet... .but I will by the time the baby is born.

Honestly, she's toxic... .I backpedaled a bit, saying I didn't want to go that route. Since she seems to want the child all to herself, and child support I feel we are not going to resolve anything.

I told her

1) Work something out with family members as witnesses.

2) Mediation.

3) Binding aribitration

4) Family court.

I told her that 4 was the worst option for everybody involved.

She just thinks she's going to get a check and a baby. She is absolutely bonkers.

If I am going to become emotionally/financially invested in to this child's life, I want to ensure they are in good hands. She is a psycho... .not in good hands.

Fight, fight, fight. I will never back down.

Appeal. Appeal. Private investigator. Appeal. Appeal. CPS. Appeal. Appeal. Private Investigator. Lawyer. Civil action. Appeal. Appeal.

Can't coparent with a woman as sick as this. Sorry. I care too much.

Better to walk away... .because I will burn through all of my resources fighting for the child, if I love them.

Stoic

You can, however, ask for her to get a psych eval before the child is born.  If you have crazy emails, texts etc, from her, you could show them.  Maybe at least the child would be in the hands of a mom who is forced to get counseling.  If she won't, well, then, that looks bad for her.

She is in counseling twice a week... .however from the sounds of it, the counselor is pushing her to seek child support from me, claiming I'm a boy tied to my apron strings, and that I don't take responsibility for my actions.

She has some dumb Kaiser counselor that's probably a pregnancy counselor/relationship counselor. It's pointless. She's so manipulative... .she had me fooled for months.

It's only when her mask slips... .or you notice the subtle manipulations and lies about lifelong things.

I have 30 pages of crazy blog emails. She told me Kaiser said she didn't even need a therapist after filling out paperwork.

This woman is such a phony. She just tells people what they want to hear. It's a joke. I'm so screwed.

Stoic

That's typical that a BPD person can snow a counselor.  As you said, she had you believing her lies too.

Well, it's up to you, but if you end up in a court situation, you can ask for a court ordered psych eval.  You may not get many chances in life to do this.  Then it may show her weaknesses and could be used to convince a judge that she must get counseling while watching the kid.  You could ask for the counseling to be with a psychiatrist.  I'm not saying you'd get everything you ask for in court, but it never hurts to ask.  If she wants to go to court, she has to face the risks of it, too.  So this is also an ace up your sleeve (although you'd probably have to get a test too, and if you have issues, it could show them on you.)  A custody evaluation would be long and expensive and would go into everything on both sides, but may help you  if you want to protect the kid a bit.

Don't be so sure you know what her shrink is telling her.  BPD folks tend to lie about those things and say the reverse of the truth.  And we still fall for it.

Yet, she goes twice a week.

You can ask her to do an non-invasive blood test (they take the mother's blood only) for paternal DNA.  However, IF you are the father it could backfire on you. 

I've blocked her and asked her not to contact me. I looked in to prenatal dna testing it's close to 2k... .better to save for a good attorney.

I'm really hoping that she is only acting this crazy due to being pregnant. I hope I'm just dealing with a pwBPD and not aspd/psychopath... .but I am pretty sure I would have known sooner.

Either way... .I spoke with someone on the domestic violence hotline last night about reproductive coercion, manipulation, psychological abuse, and power and control. He said that she is using the child as a weapon to try and control me.

He said it's noble of me to care about the child, but it might be better for me to be unattached... .as he said people like her don't normally change.

He said I might have to pay... .but there is a chance it isn't mine, but that best case I'd probably only get 50/50 and he said it puts abused men in a really bad spot to be toyed with.

Thoughts?

Stoic

Stoic83, I am from the old school... .so I always encourage both parents to stay involved.  But I also have real life experience and knowing how one PD with sociopathic behaviors could destroy the entire ship.   I would listen carefully to what the professionals are advising you ... .if they think it is better off that you unattach, it may be better for you and you really don't have a choice.  However, I do feel horrible for the child because her mother probably going to blame it all on you for walking out and doesn't care about him or her (the child) and s/he will grow up feeling abandoned... .because the territorial nature of a PD will block any truth from coming forward to this child's life.  It is so strange that our society paint child custody issue so black and white... .there are so many layers of complexities and men usually get blame for it.  Perhaps, both of you can go to therapy together and see if you could co-parent?  At least, you know you have tried. 

Stoic83:

Document Document Document AND Document.

Record Record Record AND Record.

Understand that recordings done for criminal, illegal purposes are illegal... .recordings done for self-preservation are almost never prosecuted.

Your reply to her should be only a one line response, write it down and memorize it until it is automatic:  "I will deal with issues about the baby once it is proven by DNA that it is mine."  The onus to prove paternity is on HER and the onus to prove non-paternity is NOT ON YOU.

When she files a legal motion for child support... .then you legally respond with a legal DEMAND for paternity test. 

This is a step by step issue.  This emotional blackmail and insults and chaos is called, "management by crisis" in the corporate nomenclature... .this scenario gets played by bullies everywhere... .even in family dynamics, social dynamics and personal dynamics.  And its end result is a non-win solution--everyone is unhappy.  Now you can try to forgive the bullying behavior by explanations, justifications, as being symptomatic of cowardice and anxiety and neurosis etc etc. 

And you should also as easily forgive the ones who are victimized.  For it is not they who are weak... .mostly it is they who are the MORAL ones, the more civilized ones.

Andy yet, this cycle of destruction and allowing oneself to be destroyed... .this needs to break.

It will break once you boil down the issues to become single sentence issues... .bring it down to its essence:

1)  I did not use birth control.

2)  I allowed myself to be misused.

3)  If the child is mine, then I have the following options:

  a)  Pay child support and stay out of the child's life as a parent o

  b)  Pay child support and co-parent

  c)  Sue for full custody of child on the basis of mother's instability.

So the very first thing is to prove that the child is biologically mine.

Self protection means that you do not have any direct contact with her at all.  Attorneys are the way to go.

STUDY... .carefully all the posts of Foreverdad---from beginning to end.  What you will notice is that he developed strategies to protect himself and get a desired legal outcome by bringing himself to a psychological state of mind where he would only focus on the issue at hand.  He managed to use her instability against herself.  He was not her adversary, she was her own adversary... .both in life and in the legal system.  Of the utmost importance in that entire thread is how he used this board in a very productive way.  He posted each and every strategic point, every action at every step to the legal board for comments and critiques.  Based on the many responses he received, he adjusted that knowledge to his personal situation, developing a viable strategy step by step.  Each action of his had a certain reaction from his X.  Her reaction was not always the desired one.  Until at some point, with the help of the insights of the responders, he actually could surmise what her response would be and then used that knowledge wisely.

I want you to study it not for the methods he used, because those methods may not work for you... .but how he developed that methodology... .how he utilized the resources of this board, how he utilized his own resources, his intuition, his intelligence... .

Stay focused on your therapy.

Check around for good attorney... .check the attorney's records... .what kind of cases he/she has fought etc./post on the legal board to ask what you should look for in an attorney, invite the members to give you their bad experiences as well as good... .what worked for them, what did not.

You are now playing a chess match.  If your emotions are life twigs in the wind, you will be back to being stuck in a victim mode and you won't be able to break the cycle of your past.

Breaking the cycle is a process... .it does not happen with just awareness... .it happens with skill.  Your awareness of being an easy victim in the past and in this situation alone will not help.  This board, your therapist, your family, your good friends... .all will help you develop SKILLS needed to break the cycle.

Use all your resources.  Use them wisely and without embarrassment and without shame.

For to use is to give something/someone a utility value, it is not synonymous with misuse.  To use is holy--it is sacred---it is a healthy participation in the vitality of life... .to misuse is not.

God Bless... .for you are my beloved brother too.

I don't know that we should speculate that the child will feel abandoned.  Stoic doesn't need to completely leave forever - maybe just try to step back for a while, or maybe keep an eye on the situation.  Maybe he shouldn't give up his rights completely for now - maybe there is a legal way to leave a door open for future involvement.  It seems like for his own mental health, he has to set some boundaries.  Maybe once they are set with the mom, he can coparent or parallel parent (at least with the child). 

Stoic, who knows - maybe a situation will arise where the mom WILL need to lose custody - it'd be a good idea for you to be a viable option when the time comes.

You can buy an over-the-counter paternity (DNA) kit at Wal-Mart or any drug store for somewhere in the vicinity of $40.  There is a lab fee of around $150.  These prices may vary.  Just requires a mouth swab from you and the baby.

Until you have results, you have no reason to participate in any of the prenatal lunacy that will be generated.  You are not obligated to even look at the questionable ultrasound images, etc.

I wish you strength and a good bit of luck in the upcoming months.  Join a gym, keep on with your therapist, and try not to be swayed unduly by what your relatives think you should be doing.

Namaste,

Even stoic83 shows up once a week, it leaves the rest of 6 days for the PD to drill the idea that he doesn't care about him or her and that is when he or she will feel abandoned.  Some kids are actually abandoned by a parent, but the other parent kind of embellish the truth and made the kid doesn't feel been unwanted.  It is not about the truth, it is about what PD will do.  Man, they are just so evil. 

She can do that either way... .

but at least if you show up enough times … kid will see it for him or herself and would eventually determine that she is a nut case for gas lighting.  if you just go away … then the kid will see that mom was right all along.  Trust me, sometimes I do feel like just to disappear so I can save my own life… but then I ask myself, I willingly bring my kids to this world and there is nothing that I wouldn't do for them…

Guys,

I want to sincerely thank you for your help. I have had an extremely tough past couple of days, and I was so happy to come on and read your thoughtful notes.

pallavirajsinghani: This was fantastic. This is the strategy I am taking. I do have some fault. My Uncle (the psychologist) told me that if someone sells me a crappy car and I overpay, whose fault is it? If a prostitute tells me everything I want to hear, and I sleep with her... whose fault is it. I do have some "fault". However, I prefer not to "victim blame". I am a trusting and compassionate person, while that allows me to connect with and inspire others, it also leaves me vulnerable in certain situations. I should have seen the   s and therefore I agree with you.

I told her the same. "You are 3 months pregnant and you are a pathological liar. I do not want to spend my time resources and energy on all of this drama until I know I am the father. (in 6-8 months).


*****ALERT

She came to my work yesterday (after i went NC) and she handed me a yellow packet, and her friend shouted "you've been served". this was humiliating. And I must have looked traumatized... .I screamed at my boss while he was on the phone, and called my mom and was shouting that I needed to go to the police. Afterwards my boss pulled me in to his office, and half-way reprimanded me... .telling me, "look man you need to take care of this. Legally. This is affecting the team, and I'm concerned about what this is doing to you. It's making you sick. Don't try to fix this yourself. Get a lawyer."

So after work I went to the police station... .the first cop laughed at me and made some comment about how I was trying to get out of something and I needed a lawyer. I felt like a joke.

I called the police from home, and told them what happened and demanded to speak to another officer. The officer came to my house and he took down my report. There was a woman with him (And she may have been from CPS Good!). He seemed very understanding and I told him the entire back story. I asked him for his card and said I would call if anything happened again. He said since my work was in a different county he couldn't do anything, and technically it wasn't stalking but very close.

I come home from work today ready to relax, talking to my mom about lawyers and stress and just about ready to cry out. KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK. It's her. Mom freaks. Heart pounding. Call 911.

She won't leave. She's waiting in the hall and will not leave.

The dispatcher answers... .I tell her Im being stalked... .she asks if the woman has a mental illness and I said yes, she said were we in an intimate relationship... .she says yes. I tell her the officer I spoke with day before.

She's still there... .I am freaking out... .in the corner of my room. Trying to stay quiet.

The cops show up and take her out of the building.

The cop I built a relationship with comes up stairs and tells me she lied to him about everything. That when he told her everything about what she had done, with the bogus custody document, and harrassing me with 30 texts and 50 phone calls. He told her if she showed up at my property again, she would be arrested.

Then he told me that to get a Stalking Protection Order and he told me I had his full support!

Aside from all the trauma... .I think foreverdad would be proud of me. It wasn't easy for me to call the cops on her. I am a compassionate person and she is very sick, but has her good qualities... I understand her psychology but can't change it.

An egalitarian will lose against a narcissistic personality in a legal situation. This document protects me from her harrassment and boundry busters, and also will help me in a custody battle.

The coveted TRO... .would guarantee me full custody with supervised visitiation for her... .but I didn't want things to escalate to violence, and I need my sanity and my boundaries so I can be in good shape 6-8 months from now.

Her husband(ex) or whatever, will automatically be the presumed father. I have an interesting strategy involving him as an ally... .not sure if I should post it on here.

This has been so tough you guys. I met this woman 4 months ago and look at all the chaos and destruction she's brought in to my life.

I have a chance at full custody. I would ensure that this child had the best life and counseling at an early age to offset any genetic tendencies towards PDs or whatnot.

I know I can find a healthy loving woman to help. I was just in a desperate spot and allowed myself to be taken advantage of, out of my own naivety... .

It's a jungle out there... .can't let anything like this happen again.

Let me know what you guys think about my chances now... .

stoic this is a tremendous turnaround. you sounded, quite understandably, in a really bad place, but here you took action, and weren't daunted when the jerk cop tried to brush it aside (he needs a word from his commander). now you have not just family and internet friends on your side, you have the police, and a contact person.  |iiii  excellent altogether.

one specific positive:


good boss - an invaluable asset. i've had good bosses and bad bosses, and good ones are better.  :)  keep him/her in the loop.

I am so proud of you for taking the steps to get the police involved--I know this was not easy for you.  I do think her mental health issues, now documented by a police report will be useful and well as the protection order. Please contact the station and find out how to get a copy of the police report. 

   
I think it might be a good idea to post (vaguely) about your plan to make an ally out of her ex.  He may still be somewhat attached to her and will sabotage your plan.  If you do not want to divulge, please get the advice from your attorney on the matter. 

My son's situation was similar to yours in that he got tricked into fathering a baby--she was pregnant after two-three months of dating after assuring him that she could not get pregnant (her first child as a "miracle" and despite him using protection EVERY time.  In retrospect, I have a feeling that she did this due to him trying to break up with her.  Fast forward baby is born, a covert dna test done when she was about 6 weeks old to confirm he was the father. Hired an attorney and eventually hired a PI.  Turns out she was seeing her old bf (the one she had the "miracle" child with) and was even leaving their infant daughter in his care at times (he had lengthy rap sheet as a low level drug dealer).  When the child was 7 months old, he won sole custody (gf was given supervised visitation) and shortly after she turned 2 years old he had his exgf's parental rights removed based on the fact she never saw the child once after court or paid court ordered CS. 

To this day, I do not know if she convinced her ex that the 2nd baby was his, or because she helped support him, but he would have made an awful ally.  I do know that she moved in with him again. 

My granddaughter is now 4 years old and is a happy, healthy, bright child.  I do confess to several moments of uh-oh that sounds BPD-ish, but it is HER age. 

Catnap, excellent story.  Thanks for sharing that.

Stoic, good job maintaining your sanity and your rights!  Hope your boss understands.

As for full custody, you can ask for it, as well as putting her under supervised visitation.  I don't know if you'd get it based on her stalking you, but I don't know what else the officer saw or wrote down.  Either way, you are starting to document mental illness and crazed behavior.  You are also setting boundaries.  By the time the child is born, who knows what will happen.  I don't think custody can be decided this early, as much as you'd want it to be, but you can certainly ask or try.  Sometimes you can work out a deal to drop the order in exchange for a consent agreement.  You could try to get specific about custody and stuff in that.  Or she may just want to go to the trial and see if she can beat the rap.  Just think about what you really want, stick to your guns, don't overdramatize or catastrophize.  And remember, again, it may not be your kid.  I think she can have a test even before the child is born.

*mod*

This thread is now closed, due to reaching its page limit. You are welcome to start a new thread to continue the conversation... .Thanks for your understanding.