BPDFamily.com

Hi,

Just a thought, really.  I see a lot of traits of narcissism in my BPD daughter.  The entitlement, the grandiose thinking, the self-centeredness.  Is this a quite common "cross-trait" (not sure of another word to use right now) with Borderlines?  Seems BPD and NPD have a lot in common.

Hi, Ohiomom89  

Sometimes--actually a lot of times!--BPD is co-morbid with other diagnoses, and we do have some information regarding the relationship you are wondering about: What is the relationship between BPD and narcissism (NPD)?  (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=90388.0) Here is some very pertinent information from that link:

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How to Distinguish NPD from Borderline Personality Disorder

pwNPD traits differ from pwBPD traits in that pwNPD traits have a relatively stable self-image, and lack self-destructiveness, impulsivity, and abandonment fears.

Otto Kernberg MD (Cornell) differentiates between the person with NPD and those with borderline personality disorder (BPD) on the basis of:

(1) their relatively good social functioning,

(2) their better impulse control, and

(3) their "pseudosublimatory" potential, namely, the capacity for active, consistent work in some areas which permits them partially to fulfill their ambitions of greatness and of obtaining admiration from others.  Highly intelligent patients with this personality structure may appear as quite creative in their fields:  narcissistic personalities can often be found as leaders in industrial organizations or academic institutions; they may also be outstanding performers in some artistic domain.  Careful observation, however, of their productivity over a long period of time will give evidence of superficiality and flightiness in their work, of a lack of depth which eventually reveals the emptiness behind the glitter.  Quite frequently these are the "promising" geniuses who then surprise other people by the banality of their development.  They also are able to exert self-control in anxiety-producing situations, which may at first appear as good anxiety tolerance; however, analytic exploration shows that their anxiety tolerance is obtained at the cost of increasing their narcissistic fantasies and of withdrawing into "splendid isolation." This tolerance of anxiety does not reflect an authentic capacity for coming to terms with a disturbing reality.

Except for instances of severe forms of NPD, these individuals are more capable of high, sustained achievement and will have a more successful work history than the person with Borderline Personality Disorder.

Both persons with NPDs and BPDs place great importance on attention; however, unlike borderlines, who "seek nurturing attention because they need it, narcissists feel they deserve admiring attention because of their superiority."

Persons with either Narcissistic Personality Disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder tend to have have weak interpersonal relationships, struggle to love others, have difficulty empathizing, are egocentric in their perceptions of reality, and have a great need for attention.  Unlike the borderline personality, however, because the personality of someone with NPD is more well-integrated, people with NPD are less likely to have episodes of psychotic states, especially when under stress.

A key distinguishing feature of BPD is neediness; in contrast, for NPD an important discriminator is grandiosity.  Likewise, persons with NPD are less self-destructive, have better impulse control, a higher tolerance for anxiety, and are less preoccupied with dependency and abandonment issues than are BPDs.

Finally, the self-mutilation and persistent overt rage that are often characteristic of the borderline personality are absent in NPD.

Kernberg, O. (1984). Severe personality disorders. New Haven: Yale University Press.

Ronningstam, E. (1999). "Narcissistic personality disorder."  T. Millon, P. Blaney, & R. D. Davis (Eds.), Oxford Textbook of Psychopathology (pp. 674-693). New York: Oxford University Press.

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It really is fascinating to learn about Personality Disorders, and how they work. That knowledge is also valuable in helping us to understand how to deal with our BPD loved ones in a way that is beneficial to them and us, besides... .Have you had the chance to check out all of the links to the right-hand side of this page yet, Ohiomom89? The information at those links has been able to help lots of us parents with our relationships with our BPD children (me, too!)  

 

Rapt's excerpt echoes the DSM's differential diagnosis: "... .the relative stability of self-image as well as the relative lack of self-destructiveness, impulsivity, and abandonment concerns distinguish these [paranoid personality disorder and NPD] from Borderline Personality Disorder."

My d sometimes looks NPD as well... .when she is functioning well she can look very full of herself and want a lot of attention/admiration for her abilities and accomplishments. But it looks like it comes from insecurity and fear rather than actually feeling superior. This shows up when something threatens that image and she drops off the edge, becoming self-destructive and suicidal.

If I'm understanding it correctly, a pwBPD thinks they are not good enough, and someone with NPD thinks others are not good enough.

I recognize many NPD traits in my BPDD, the main one is a lack of empathy for others. She is a self-proclaimed narcissist and quite proud of it!  I think it is another label that she has latched onto, because of her poor sense of self. I also think that since she is viewing herself as NPD, she gets a "pass" for some of her thinking and behavior. Her father is a narcissist, with an intense superiority complex.

It is like my DD fluctuates between BPD and NPD symptoms.

Thanks Raptreader that  information clarified a few things I'd been concerned about! 

my view is that PDs is a spectrum… there are traits between N and B.  I was able to figure out my wife was largely B because of her apparent lack of empathy and really just plain sociopathic.  Extremely self absorbed.  For example, if she doesn't show empathy to your problems, that is totally expected.  Now if you don't show any to her problems, then you are marked for death…. and she will never forget.  Never apologizes and really feel sorry for anything… Yes, you know when you start to think... wow, a sociopath… then you know you got yourself a NPD.  BPD I think on the other words will use self mutilation and threaten to harmself as a means of manipulation… I don't see that in my NPDw.