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The word "weakness" looks similar to "weak knees." That's how I felt today, briefly.

The r/s has been over for a little over a year, but she finally moved out in Feb,.after 4 months of her barely hiding her new r/s, lying to me periodically that they were "just friends," nevermind the imptopriety of that anyway. I imagine some could argue that nothing was wring since we were done, but we were still living together raising two small children (when she wasn't going out and neglecting them).

I've been channeling the Joe Carver method of detachment: bland, boring,.unavailable. I put up boundaries on being friends like she wants, or going out and doing stuff as a family with the kids. I relent now and then.

I found what she did disgusting, and her choosing to be a gf over a mother despicable. I did my part in driving her away, but after our second child, it became exhausting. I felt like the mother in the r/s. That her father's affair resulted in her rebelling against her mother first (which was a first), and then becomng more emotionally unstable was another huge factor. Were it not for D2 and the affair trigger, perhaps I wouldn't be here. Or it may have been inevitable, who can say? You can't fight the future, but only wait for it.

I had to pick up the kids today from her mom's, but my Ex was there because her mom was sick. She was doing a craft project with S4, something way beyond his age, and she tried to get me to take it home. I said no way, Mommy wants to finish it with you, S4. It was funny, actually. No one was mad. I read the box and said,."it says for ages 35 and up." She said really? I replied that it left her out (she's younger). She laughed,.and said maybe she and S4 could try to finish it by the end of the decade... She was second guessing buying it for him because it involved about 60 cut outs and a lot of glue. It was at that point that I felt a stab in my heart when I looked at her. I think it was affection or something like that. What was that anyway, feelings or something?

A few months ago, perhaps I would have been mad at myself, but maybe my anger was me invalidating myself. I accept it this time. My feelings are real, and anger is a mask... .for pain.

A while after I got the kids home, she sent me a cute picture of D2. I usually didn't reply when she had sent me pics (Joe Carver), but this time I thanked her... she sent a short reply a few hours later (after she was done doing whatever she was doing... .there I go again!).

But it's ok. At this point, I feel like a Stayer, because I realize that a lot of how she interacts with me depends upon how I act towards her. I can be a good mirror, or a poor one. Though I fight my pain, I try and choose to be a good one, not only for our children, but for myself.

Hi Turkish,

I can definitely relate to your post. It sounds like you feel vulnerable when you allow yourself to experience "tender" feelings for your ex., and if that's the case, it's very understandable. At the same time, I think it is very freeing to open our hearts, and can indicate that healing is progressing. No more "walls" of protection needed.

Are you nervous about where these feelings might take you?


Being yourself, treating others as you'd like to be treated, and most of all, making your well-being a priority (so that you can be there for loved ones, too)—all these behaviors transform relationships. Doesn't always mean for the better, but transform they will.

I think where many of us get burnt (at least this has happened to me) is when we think that the tender feelings mean something other than merely the rise and fall of sensations. We often think that we need to do something about them, but we really don't. We can continue on the path that has proved itself helpful to our recovery—and still welcome whatever emotions come up.

heart 

Hi Turkish-

My experience with a borderline doesn't bear much resemblance to yours; I was in a relationship that lasted less than a year, we weren't married and we didn't have any kids, and I haven't seen or heard from her in over 2 years.  Mine hurt like hell though, and I honestly don't know how you do it, except that you just do, like all of us.  Kudos man.

Anyway, my reason for posting is to say opening your heart and allowing yourself to be vulnerable is never weakness.  We need to protect ourselves from mental illnesses, yes, and that takes a certain amount of vigilance, learned by getting burned, you would know much better than me.  But showing up open-hearted and vulnerable, especially when we've been burned, takes courage, lots of courage.  Not suggesting you do that with your ex, just don't forget how to do it as you move forward with your kids and healthy people in the world, and don't consider it weakness.  Take care of you!

Heel,

You're right. I'm still feelng out boundaries though. I often question what is the right thing to do. A friend called me after I posted this. I updated him on the last month. His comment was, "that's a lot of interaction for being recently 'divorced.' I can see this in 7 years, but now?" Cold water on my face. The thing is, with no boundaries, my Ex and I would be hanging out more. She invited me to go see a movie with the kids the other day. I declined (I did that once three months ago).


I'm nervouse that I might start pining away for her. That would kill me (figuratively).


Being yourself, treating others as you'd like to be treated, and most of all, making your well-being a priority (so that you can be there for loved ones, too)—all these behaviors transform relationships. Doesn't always mean for the better, but transform they will.

I think where many of us get burnt (at least this has happened to me) is when we think that the tender feelings mean something other than merely the rise and fall of sensations. We often think that we need to do something about them, but we really don't. We can continue on the path that has proved itself helpful to our recovery—and still welcome whatever emotions come up. [/quote]
Good wisdom h&h! Maybe I don't need to do anything other than to validate that my brief feeling was real, it passed, and move on. I still feel a bit stuck though. I hate coming home to an empty house (the one I bought for my family). A work friend who s's known me over 20 years used to poke fun at my nomadic tendencies, never putting down roots. Now I feel trapped by a false construct, the illusion of the life I always wanted, never having had it as a child. I'm here now though. Maybe I need to read through the mindfullness worshop again. 

I am still with my spouse but am trying to detach. I still care about my husband but I don't have those gushy feelings for him. I think the thing that I feel most is compassion. I wonder if you were feeling compassion for her. According to the dictionary, compassion is "sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others." I sometimes think I get compassion confused with affection or the gushy stuff. I can look at my husband and have feelings but they are more feelings of compassion than anything else. I have been thinking about how to nurture those feelings of compassion while working on becoming detached. There are times that he does stuff and I can only shake my head and feel sorry for him because he seems so unbelievably clueless at times.

Turkish,

I still care about my ex immensely, I don't know how to put it out there accurately however I don't think there is anything wrong with this.  Those feelings that I am getting of hatred from her are just self hatred.  I can flip it on a dime and go well, so be it. 

I understand about putting down roots etc.  Bought the house next to the good school worked my butt off my whole life had a plan now its in shatters.  She is what she is and when the times were good she was a fantastic partner, still chipping away at me but a joy to be with.  When they were tough it was all my fault and my burden to fix the problems to make things easier again.  How fair is that ?

Now she is going absolutely troppo on me.  I don't respond and she escalates.  Do I still care for her yes.  Do I want to say that what she has done is healthy and normal.  Hell no.  The accusations coming out are horrid, and that is all they are accusations.  Placing her behaviours on me.

I wont ever go back to that where I wont have someone accountable for there own feelings.  I know my role and I admit and will admit I wasn't a present partner during those times.  I will question how it is my responsibility to make her happy now and validate what she is going through now with her roller-coaster of accusations. 

The copper putting the brief together who called me back wanted to talk for 5 minute to me today.  I spoke to him basically said, not my concern about all the accusations.  I said I am responsible for my actions and will answer to these accusations in court.  I then said look I really have to leave this up to my solicitor to sort out mate as I cant be involved with her, she is like this and I don't think she will ever change.  I think he was expecting a raving luni ex partner to be on the phone to him.  I then asked him one thing before getting off the phone.  When she made the report did she have our son on her right hip?  Was she crying and very emotional.  He said yes, I said, figures, she will never change. 

You can predict the cycle, idealisation, devaluation, discard.  You can pick the behaviours.  Anything she can do now to discard me and kill me off she will do.  I accept that, it isn't personal to her like the relationship was to me.  It was just a part of her life that will keep repeating itself. 

Consider yourself lucky that you have the insight to work through this mate.  Nothing wrong with feeling those feelings instead of projecting them and feeling nothing apart from what our partner is feeling at the time.  You have a sense of self, accept that and be yourself. 

You may be right here... .it felt so normal being with her, both kids playing with us. I know she still feels shame at her core, and does work to be a "better mom" as she told me months ago, despite my recent frustrations about downlaying the kids' issues with her anger. I'm torn between, "do I actually like this person, could we be a form of friends as she wants to be?" And, " can't forget the past 6 years, especially the past year, including her neglect of the children."

It's almost like I'm doing my own form of splitting.

Have you finished grieving the r/s? Have you reached acceptance?

Oh man, I can really relate to what you say about being a better parent. My husband has made a lot of improvements in the parenting department but it still isn't enough in my opinion. Yes, he is trying but I cannot let myself get caught up in that. For me, I feel like I am working on trying to see him as a whole person rather than some monster that has screwed up my life and the life of our kids. There are so many things that he has done that I can't forget no matter what happens. Even if we manage to stay together and live in the same house for a while, I don't think I will ever be able to forget some things.

But, I have to remember that I did marry him and we do have 4 kids together. Whether I like it or not, I don't think I will ever be able to go no contact with him. For the sake of our kids, I feel like the best option is to find a way to be friends with him so that I can try to minimize the trauma that my kids have to endure. As my kids get older, they are seeing a lot of things for themselves and they don't want to spend time with dad. So, I nurture those feelings of compassion and try to remind myself of the good and the bad so that I don't get sucked in by painting him white or run away screaming because I have painted him black. For me, it is all about finding that magical balance where I can protect myself but still make sure that our kids have both parents.

I don't think I have, and I don't know what to do about it. No closure, as almost all of us here have had (not). It's better, at least I'm not depressed as I was for many months. It was bad, but I coped. I imagine that's progress.

vortex,

My T told me earlier in the year, "I sense that a lot of your anger comes from expecting her to be something she is not."

She's not a bad mom (early signs of Parentification aside), but she's limited by who she is. This is frustrating, but it's reality. I'm as kind to her as I can be, and I don't throw things "in her face" (one of her favorite terms), because I know she is at least trying, limited as it is.

Maybe it's that she seems more whole to you now?

And you're seeing yourself as more whole, too?

Of course you're still drawn to her. There are many reasons to be.

When you "felt something", did you think you could rescue her? Be rescued?

Did her vulnerability trigger your own? It happens. Live it and let go.

Don't split yourself into I'm This Or That. Be yourself. Your whole self.

Those weakness you feel is your strength.

I can relate to the betrayal. But I don't know how I would cope if I had to have it thrown in my face all the time.

An exercise to obtain an objective perspective is this.

Anytime someone makes a statement replace all the you with I or me. And and the me and Is with you. Also read it backwards the initial way and replacing the you me and I's. This will create 4 perspectives of the same story. When all 4 sides are seen then the truth will reveal itself. This is an application of the yin yang. When one can see any interaction like this as they way they see they become fully present. This is the Tao.

It reveals projections your own and others and objectivity. The word thing I described can be a sort of meditation or contemplation to achieve this state of mind.

Apply it to your own statements too.

The main ones when people tell others what they ought to be doing.

How they feel about this other person.

It will reveal a hidden world right before your eyes.

There is a film called Rashoman which is a story from 4 perspectives and you see it as the observer. Just yesterday I had an insight and put all these pieces together.

Some parts of a statement can be moved around a bit lot make sense. Like the words you and in. In you. You in. The I in you the you in you.

This is sort of the surface layer of how to apply the yin yang but a very useful practice that may lead to deeper levels of understanding as training the mind to think in this way.

I'm still with my uBPDw, but the 32 year marriage, 38 year relationship seems to be coming to an end. I'm grieving too, but much less since I became a member here on 8 September , last month.

I also experienced the severe depression you mention, and anxiety, for a while recently, and managed to cope, only by going through the CBT course (Moodgym) recommended on this site.

Actually I got the Certificate of Completion from the Australian National University, just this last Sunday.

On the face of the Certificate it says that I'm "CERTIFIED UNWARPED", which strangely enough, makes me feel even much better, and brought a smile to my face.

I really am so sorry Turkish, that we have to go through these very sad moments in our lives, and I sincerely hope only the very best for you.

I've seen you giving, such good advice to others on this site, for which I'd just like to say "Thank You So Much"



All the best , My Friend