BPDFamily.com

Most of us have been there: we let our standards slide; we were too tired, our child was having a 'bad day', we were too embarrassed and in public, our family from out-of town was visiting, etc. etc.

Little by little our child's behaviors got bolder and bolder and now they are out of control. We feel hurt, abused, disrespected in our own home. We are treated badly, and we feel bad because on top of everything, we realize that WE didn't enforce our boundaries.

We are thinking: Now what?

Before we crumble in face of this daunting task and before we start beating ourselves up, let's take a deep breath. Today is a new beginning, tomorrow is another day. We all have setbacks, and that's ok, we are doing the best we can.  

For those who would like to have a quick review, this is a good article on boundaries: Getting Our Values and Boundaries in Order (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries), and if you click on the button at the bottom, it will take you to the main workshop on the topic.

How do we get back on track?

1. Identify the core issue/s (our value/s that are being violated).

2. Devise an appropriate boundary, and apply consistently.

3. Be ready for escalation of the violations before they subside.

4. Implement gradually (pick your battles from the most offensive issue to lesser ones and tackle one by one slowly)


Which boundaries do you struggle the most to uphold with your child, and why?

What is the core value behind the boundary?

What are the circumstances around which this boundary tends to get violated?

Very good Article about Boundaries, pessim-optimist--thanks for pointing it out.

Here's something from that Article that I find very helpful and interesting:

The Right Way and the Wrong Way  Having values empowers us and motivates others:

1. I listen to the points of view of others and take them seriously

2. I treat everybody with respect

3. I am always supportive of family and friends

4. I am totally honest in all my dealings with others

5. ... .and I expect that same.

Defending boundaries (without values) tends to be shallow, reactive, and confrontational:

1. I will not tolerate you getting in my face (stated aggressively)

2. If you do things I don't like, I will respond by doing things that are equally distressing to you

3. You weren't there when I needed you, so I wasn't there when you need me

4. Etc.

I like this, too (for some reason, it helps me put things into perspective regarding this subject):

There are three types of boundaries:

1. Physical boundaries help us determine who may touch us and under what circumstances.

2. Mental boundaries give us the freedom to have our own thoughts and opinions.

3. Emotional boundaries help us deal with our own emotions and disengage from the  harmful, manipulative emotions of others.


Which boundaries do you struggle the most to uphold with your child, and why?

This one really has to do with my enabling my son's dependent behavior, mostly because I'm so afraid of his relapsing in his recovery from Heroin addiction, and relapsing in his recovery from his BPD behaviors. I'm just afraid to "upset the applecart" by pressing the issues relating to his supporting himself and becoming independent; things are great right now and I'm pushing my knowledge that he really will need to start supporting himself and breaking out on his own very soon... .

What is the core value behind the boundary?

The core value is that he is an adult and adults are independent and self-supporting; parents need to know the difference between supporting their child emotionally and enabling their dependence. I need to let him go so that he can fly... .

What are the circumstances around which this boundary tends to get violated?

Well, he isn't violating it nefariously or negatively; he is in recovery and doing his best to stay clean and sober and to live his life without dysfunction and BPD actions. The circumstances are that he cannot afford those treatments on his own, he has Hepatitus C treatments coming up soon and needs to continue to be clean and sober for them to work right, and he is best able to do that in our home and not stressed out by the "cold, cruel world" right now. I struggle with being "mom to the rescue" and "mom doing what she needs to in order for her son to thrive."

boundaries... .hmmm... .sometimes I do pretty good at following through with this and sometimes I don't.

Example... .I am not driving my dd17 everywhere due to her car accident and loss of car. Every morning she is late. Doesn't want to get out of bed etc... .my morning are not pleasant or enjoyable. I will say that I do get extra time talking with dd17 and I find that to be a plus most days. Often what the problem is that  she has me up and ready too early and I sit waiting for her. I ask her when she wants to leave for school and she never keeps to that time. She will tell me she is going in early for tutoring then I will be up an hour early because when I go to wake her she has changed her mind and is now going to go another day.

So I have told her that from now on when she says she is going in at a certain time I expect her to keep to her original plan. For every minute I am kept waiting she will need to wait for me to pick her up from school. Now when I read the other posts in the thread I am not sure that is the right approach. Since stating my expectations she has been pretty good about being on time. I also realize that it is me that has a certain uneasiness with being late. I try to ignore that and just know that Dd17 with be counted tardy and the school will deal with her.

I guess I am not really sure... .I feel somwhat taken for granted now that I drive her everywhere. I guess I am just trying to let her see how disrespectful it can be to keep people waiting but maybe this has been the wrong way to approach this problem from the start... .I could use some feedback on this... .

jellibeans,


Since hearing your expectations has created improvement, I would guess that how you are handling this is working.

Can you share a little about how driving your DD to/from school has changed your routine? Is there public transportation available? Giving her as much responsibility/accountability for getting herself to school is valuable for both of you.

My experience has been that my D had little awareness of the impact of her actions on my life. BPD was not a part of my vocabulary when she was this age so I had few skills in managing boundaries with her. I also still believed that I had some measure of control over what HER values should/could be. Like you, I value being on time (doing what I say I am going to do). DD was rarely 'honest' about her timing with anyone - it felt like lies to me though she would not agree with this. Honesty is one of my core values. DD sees this as a weakness! According to her I will be walked all over if I am honest!

In the past year I have come to understand how important it is for me to honor this value - honesty and integrity. It takes a lot of courage to calmly tell DD that I will not do something how she wants because it violates this boundary. She tried to debate it with me at first, I chose not to engage in this conversation by repeating how important honesty is for me to stay healthy. The kind of things that pushed this boundary were filling out applications for benefits, making excuses for her actions with others, being the moderator in the middle of disagreements with others... . She still asks, I am mostly able to tell her what I can do for her that does not cross my honesty alarm.

An example of how this triggered raging is helping her apply for benefits such as housing assistance. She would list gd as her dependent, knowing this would get her better access to benefits. Since my hubby and I have custody of gd this is not true. So I refused to help with the application -- she melted down and then blamed me to for missing the deadline to apply. In fact our custody of gd, because DD cannot put gd's needs first or be aware of her needs (neglect), is a main trigger for DD's anger towards me.  Often in the past my unresolved guilt about this complex situation let this anger push me. I would cave in to her demands, especially if gd was nearby.

I have worked on this guilt among other things in several ways and am doing so much better at valuing myself enough to stand up to DD. And to do it without losing my own cool.

Seems this does answer the questions posed by pessim-optimist.

How do we get back on track?

1. Identify the core issue/s (our value/s that are being violated).  Honesty and integrity

2. Devise an appropriate boundary, and apply consistently.  Letting DD know when a request violates this value and what I am willing to do to help her that is honest in the situation.

3. Be ready for escalation of the violations before they subside.   Yep -- lots of raging behavior, even in public.

4. Implement gradually (pick your battles from the most offensive issue to lesser ones and tackle one by one slowly)  As I have gained my self-respect back through self-care there is strength and courage to maintain a calm attitude. DD cannot scuttle me and accepts when I decline to help her or agrees to let me be open and honest. This has come up a lot this past year with her dealings with the legal system. She gets out of jail in two weeks - after 9 months in a variety of inmate programs. I will try to keep my cool, and hope she continues to appreciate the help I choose to give.

Accepting that I am human, and therefore I am unable to be consistent with boundaries 100% of the time, has helped so much with guilt/shame reactions. When I am able to admit to others my mistake I can offer a 'do-over'. And this goes both ways - forgiveness is a powerful action.

I look forward to hearing others stories in response to these questions. Boundaries are HARD and take continuous monitoring and often adapting to changes in situations. DD is learning and growing right now too -- I have to let go of some of my ineffective patterns or expectations based on the past.

qcr

In a perfect world there is a right way and a wrong way.  Unfortunately, most of us are living imperfect lives. I don't think that there is a magic formula that will always work with our BPDs.  Every day is different and all of our tools need to remain fluid.  What works today may be a spectacular failure tomorrow.  We've all said, at one time or another, that this is one crazy roller coaster ride... .more and more, I feel as if the answer lies in the fact that I just need to dance faster.  And yet,  I still need to be aware of when to (shut my mouth!) and walk away.

Boundaries, I have more than a few,  lol.  Some I even manage to hang onto these days!  Recently,  I received an unexpected (and unsolicited, maybe even unwelcome) boost to a broken boundary from another source (ds27.)  And, it worked!  It was a positive thing.  Go figure.

I guess my point is that you never know.  Does that make sense?  We can all read and practice and bend over backwards making ourselves nuts (and totally responsible) for our BPDs choices, but ultimately we can only do the best we can do.  There are no guarantees.  They will do what they will do.  I just figure, regardless, I love her.  I will try to dance, not only faster, but maybe to a different tune, now and then... .if need be.

It takes a lot of fortitude and courage to enforce. When we - dh and I - had our confrontation of sorts with exuBPD DIL (I think I got the phrasing of that right!) I was firm and direct with her, telling her I can tell when people are lying and that I've put up with it so far but from now on I'm going to call her out on it; and that she has tendency to want to control people and I'm not going to allow her to do it to me. She went on to add some things but I countered by saying that I understand that may be her perception but I don't share that view. It hurt to enforce such boundaries with someone I'd previously been close but it was destroying much deeper ties - I suppose it's easier when it's not "blood" relations but certain things do need to be said -- and in a way I was risking more as we'd not known at the time how my son would react. In this case, it gave him the strength to come forward with some of the issues he'd been struggling with in their relationship. So - perhaps by giving voice to such issues it would help others close to you deal with theirs - I'd imagine they're affected in their own ways.

As an aside and small digression, my husband has an employee who is going through a similar situation with her son and is having a tough time using any method with him.  It's become fairly apparent that he's learned how to, I hate to use the word manipulate but I'm at a loss to any other word, her and his stepfather. It's also difficult b/c those dynamics are pouring into the workplace as the frequent phone calls, delayed office arrivals and early departures are interrupting office routines and work yet we understand the havoc such pwPDs can create. Yet it's hard to maintain a professional environment for all employees who may come to expect "special" treatment for all family circumstances.  I just wonder how people dealing with these circumstance maintain a home/work balance.  Perhaps a discussion for another thread.

Boundaries have been a real issue for me. Before I understood what was going on I had a difficulty with the basic boundary of myself and my daughter being different people. You could say that I was enmeshed with her so that I felt responsible for her difficult behaviours and sorting out her messes.

I felt as if part of myself had taken off doing things that were against my basic values (such as honesty) and I had no control over it.

This led to feelings like shame.

Since she was so vulnerable with eating disorders and suicidality I felt even more responsible.

I have learned a lot since I     found out more about BPD and it was actually helpful when I learned to stand back.

The main issue I have with boundaries now is that I know that I allow my daughter to speak to me without respect. This is partly because she very easily would stop contact with my grandchildren and I wish to be there to support them.

The best I can do is just walk away, go home early etc.

This seems to be effective though as there is a degree of improvement and she sometimes thanks me for things these days.

Our relationship has gone from enmeshed to rather superficial and distant.

I found reading the book on boundaries by Henry Cloud and John Townsend helped me examine my ideas of how a good mother should behave. I also had quite a religious upbringing and it helped me think about concepts like "turning the other cheek" and what would be truly helpful to another person.

It also good to remember despite your best efforts you will still face devestating and recurring failures in certain circumstances especially when co morbidity is present there is nothing you can or could have done in the recent past to change events drug relapses suicide attempts uncontolable rages are inevitable somrtimes no matter how well you have handled things

Reading through this thread the limit setting "power tool #4 - Set Limits with Love" from the book "The Essential Family Guide to BPD", (Randi Kreger): popped into my head. So I found my copy and re-read that chapter. There was even a red marker I left on page 205; 'Three Keys to Setting Limits'. This was the first book I read back in 2009 when I arrived at bpdfamily. My DD's neuropsych testing added BPD as a new dx. It sure fit - 9 out of 9 criteria! She was 23 at that time.

These 'Keys' have since been reinforced many times by other resources. Here is a quote from this reference:

1. Steering clear of FOG: fear, obligation, and guilt (from "Emotional Blackmail", Susan Forward)

2. Trusting your own perceptions, feelings and opinions -- most significantly, those about yourself

3. Refusing to rescue your family member from your limits, which gives mixed messages

I try to remember that this is HARD WORK changing many old habits and patterns, often from my own childhood. It is important to remind myself that this is a process. There is no 'end goal' to attain. This is about being fluid in a valued relationship with a loved one. So even if today doesn't feel so good, tomorrow can always be better. Or at least different. Over time things have gotten so much better in my relationship with each person in my family - dh, gd9 and DD28. My relationship with myself has also improved an immeasurable amount. Taking care of myself is what empowers me to do this work day by day by day.

qcr

Great suggestion. I've found most books on the topic to be extremely helpful and these guidelines appear to be right on target. Also agree with SlyQQ. We're not going to miraculously enforce change with our responses instantly, if ever - but can help smooth out the communications and regain our dignity and stance in the process.

Thank you everyone for your posts so far, keep them coming! They contain our collective knowledge and experience.

These are some of the hurdles we face:

Enmeshed - Very understandable. When kids are troubled, we sometimes take over, their lives become our lives and it's hard to tell the difference because they are lost without us.

Boundaries help us tell where I end and where another person starts; what is my responsibility and what is another's. They help us keep the good stuff in and the bad stuff out.

Rattled - We get thrown off balance by our kids' behaviors. They surprise us, and we find ourselves reacting to the crisis of the day, or to the immediate situation.

Boundaries (knowing our boundaries well) help us see the big picture and decide if/what appropriate action needs to be taken (rather than reacting to what's happening at the moment). Boundaries help us keep order in our life where the chaotic day-to-day changes of life with BPD threaten to confuse us.

Worried - Worries are a part of being a parent. But the worries for a kid w/BPD can get overwhelming. Many of our fears may be well justified, and need to be heeded (e.g. our fear for their life when we know they aren't safe). It's the paralysis that keeps us in the toxic patterns that make things worse are the ones we need to overcome (e.g. giving in for fear of rage)

Boundaries help us distinguish what's what. Why am I afraid/worried? Am I feeling unsafe/used/bullied, or am I worried about the welfare of my child? Is my worry justified, or am I over-protective and enabling?

Which boundaries do you struggle the most to uphold with your child, and why?

Our toughest trouble has been time on the phone. My step-daughter (when she is in contact with us, which she isn't at the moment), tends to call at all hours and at length, she will try to hold us on the line for hours, and it isn't easy to hang up.

There are several reasons why we struggle with this: We don't want to upset her and cause her to dysregulate and go NC yet again (fear). When she is in touch, we are usually very happy to talk and want to catch up on what's been going on, especially with the grandkids - and we only get to talk to them a bit IF we talk to her at length.

What is the core value behind the boundary?

Time wisely spent; keeping order and peace in our lives, instead of unpredictable lengthy interruptions.

Talking upwards of an hour a day (sometimes twice or three times a day) is too much for us to keep our lives in any kind of order and to fulfill our other obligations.

What are the circumstances around which this boundary tends to get violated?

We have realized this and have been getting better at it. However, I have noticed that if/when we feel insecure in the relationship (whenever her mood is rocky, she's having a hard day, or if we know there is pressure on her to split us black) we still tend to let our limits slide, and we find ourselves hostage to her phone calls.

The truth/solution - we haven't been able to "prevent her" from splitting and going NC by remaining on the phone longer and hoping to establish a better connection anyway, and our lives get hurt as a result of her chaos disrupting ours'. We can gently and reasonably keep to our schedules, hang up when we need to and only keep talking longer if we genuinely can, want to and/or feel it's a warranted exception.

Have you had any experiences in the past that help you or give you hope that things can get better and under control?

Sharing my worries with someone in my support network. Sometimes multiple individuals. Therapists help the most when available. I signed releases for all the mental health treatment individuals for our family in August when I was really sad and disconnected from most of my life. They talked together, I met with 5 of them within a week, and am encouraged to meet with at least one of them weekly. This has helped so much. I also went back to the recovery group I belong to and study group in my church. I have since added 2 therapy people to support me in the medical area. They also are good listeners that validate that I am worthy of self-care - a PT and massage therapist.

Note: this is all about me. Where I have power for change. This strengthens my ability to be consistent in my boundaries. And I need to continue as DD approaches release from jail.


qcr