BPDFamily.com

Hi

I am in my sixties and for years have had to deal wth an older sister who I suspect has a mild case of BPD.

She has never been diagnosed with such and she may not even have it. However so many of the traits she has exhibited in the past can be linked to the criteria used for diagnosis. (Except the sexual/physical abuse and suicide - as far as I know those don't apply)

The thought she may have BPD is a relief in a way. We always thought she was uncomfortably like our grandmother and labelled her as being a "manipulative bully" or a "b___" at times. But knowing it may be biologically inherited makes it seem less like a "fault" and more like a condition.

I know that makes me sound awfully judgemental, but even though I love her and wish the best for her, she has hurt people near and dear to me. The way she speaks to her husband at times is appalling. My grandmother was the same with my grandfather. Both men have had the patience of a saint.

The chances of her ever admitting she has a problem and seeking help are next to nil. But just by looking at a couple of the videos and reading how to deal with someone with BPD will hopefully help me deal with her. And I'm hoping I can get more advice from here.

My other sister and I had been doing a lot of the suggested coping mechanisms already: Avoiding stress. Not "reacting" to the sudden flares of temper. (I often fail at that one I am afraid to say - not by retaliating but by pulling back and shutting her off), playing soothing Classical music. Keeping calm ourselves when stressed and basically just being there for her.

My main concern is that her partner of over forty years has successfully coped with her all this time and now he has secondary cancer.

They are living in denial about the severity of his condition and we don't bring the subject of the future up as we know she won't be able to cope with it rationally.

They don't have any children or pets.

Our father died young and her husband is twelve years her senior and is the carer of the two: cooks, shops, handles the business side of their affairs and drives.

She can drive but partially through lack of practice and because she does drive a bit fast, he never lets her behind the wheel.

As I said at the start, I'm not even sure she has BPD. But her sudden flares of anger and listening in to how she treats tradespeople, business people she needs to deal with, employees etc it is doubtful any one else will help her.

The paradoxical thing is that she held down a very responsible job for years where she was in control. And when she is in control, and there is no stress she is marvellous.

So, how do we handle the situation? Try to get her to admit she has a problem? Difficult given her age. I have always thought she has had a bad self image and deep down doesn't really like herself.

Hi Koala bear

Great to see you have already found your way to a main board - I read your intro on the new member board.

it does sound like your sister has caused you stress and it is admirable that you are looking for ways to assist her and her partner as well as yourself and family.

It's also commendable that you have begun to review the material available.

I can't stress enough how valuable it is to find out what you can in order to produce effective results.

Whether or not she has BPD is really for a qualified health professional to diagnose but in the meantime there are certainly ways to learn to best handle BPD like traits or behaviour.

You mention that there is a low/nil chance of her admitting there is something wrong or seeking ways to change. In the end, that is her own choice to make just as your reactions to the impact it has on you are YOUR choices to make.

Again her partner has to make his own way in his dealings with her although by your own improved understanding may bring benefits to him as well as and when you are willing to share what you suspect and learn.

And no, I don't think it makes you sound judgmental at all - it's human and necessary to assess. Judgment is when you decide what's best for someone else and press them to do things your way.

It would be worth your while to examine your own role in your dynamic with her as this will lead you to reviewing whether they are beneficial or perhaps a way to 'walk on eggshells' to prevent unwanted conflict.

Have you had a chance to look at the material associated with coping with a family member who has BPD? I will post a link here:

https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/fuzzetti.pdf

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this.

In any case you have come to the right place to receive support and help and a better understanding. It's a great family and I'm sure you'l get the help you need here.

All the best,

Ziggiddy

Hi Koala Bear *welcome*

I would like to join Ziggidy in welcoming you to our online community


I don't feel like saying this makes you sound awfully judgmental. BPD is quite a difficult disorder and unfortunately people with BPD can be quite adept at hurting others. Let's just say that your classification of her is an honest assessment. Now that you've come here perhaps you can try to work on moving past this assessment and find new and better ways of dealing with her.


This is very unfortunate. There are people with BPD who have learned to better manage their thoughts and emotions and by doing so have improved their behavior. However, for this to happen it is essential that they fully acknowledge their issues and commit to working on them.


Good that you are already aware of some of the things you can do yourself that might help in your interactions with your sister |iiii You can't control her or make her change if she doesn't want to, but by changing your own behavior it is possible to change the dynamics of your relationship with her.


Have you been in situations before when your sister wasn't able to rationally cope with these kind of things? How did you deal with things then and do you feel like there are any learning points from those past experiences that might be of help to you now?


Your posts suggests your primary concern is what would happen to your sister if her husband wouldn't be around anymore. Would you say this is a correct assessment of mine?

It's difficult to predict what would happen exactly. However, not all people with BPD who project an image of helplessness are actually that helpless when they find themselves in the situation that there's no other option but to take care of things themselves. Are you perhaps also concerned that your sister might start to look more to you for help with her life now that her husband is seriously ill? The thought of having someone with BPD play a larger role in your life or making increase demands can be quite overwhelming.


Many people with BPD have what can be described as a shaky sense of self and have huge self-esteem issues and/or a strong need for the love and approval of others. This might explain the bad self-image you believe your sister has.

Wow, some wonderful stuff there. Thank you Kwamina and Ziggiddy for your replies. I think for starters this is at the core of why finding this condition beneficial:
I have always felt that low self esteem and fears of abandonment are core to her reactions. Even if she is not aware of them. By keeping that fact in mind and perhaps reassuring her as to her worth (when appropriate) and that we are family and therefore there for her (when we are able to be) will be core.

We were never abusive in our family, but neither were we demonstrably affectionate. Not enough kisses, cuddles, hugs, or just saying "Luv ya" at the end of phone conversations. Her husband said that to his niece the other day while I was there and she scoffed. Which was actually sad.

We were brought up in an era where children were seen and not heard and you didn't praise people or they would get swelled heads. Growing up the non academic one with siblings who went to University also added to this (which she mentions in passing a lot). "I'm not bright, like you lot."

So hopefully now I will see these for what they really are, pleas for reasurance that she is fine like she is and has other qualities to be proud of.

I will check out that link. Thanks. I did do some further reading last night. My problem is that there seems to be a fine line between letting them get away with manipulative tactics (dealing with the FOG) and the advice I seem to be reading on other threads that it is hopeless trying to change them we need to learn to deal. I am still to be convinced that's good for her in the long run.

As Kwamina said:
But first I need to look at ways I can help be a buffer/filter and maybe assist the rest of the famly to see the underlying need and not react to her when she gets nasty (and starts using THAT voice!).


That is defintely  something to think about. I've been talking about this with my husband and noted that humor works well in these instances. Self-deprecating.


Spot on Kwamina. But you're right. She's actually very competent in many ways, and she has proved that to herself in the past, so if she is appearing worried, I need to remind her of these times.


Part of the problem is we've never been taught/encouraged to communicate honestly what our needs and fears are. So that is an avenue to follow. The SET principle. Starting with some sharing of my own insecurities and leading it to her (rather than the opposite which is usually when someone starts sharing their load we either try to fix it or switch the topic to us instead of exploring their problem and encouraging them to offload their concerns.

But I am concerned about having her need us more after he has gone. She does try to divide and conquer. And my sister's husband and children won't have a bar of her because of how she treated my sister when she worked for her for a while. I should email/phone more.

But basically it comes down to:


But more importantly, George Benson nailed it: www.dai.ly/xxxvg7 (http://www.dai.ly/xxxvg7)

Further to the link Ziggiddy posted.

One of the biggest peeves my sister has with me is my defensiveness and need to be "always right". She says it is my biggest fault. Literally.

Until now, I have justified this by insisting that on that particular issue I was right. (I was trying to explain about resolutions of photos and file sizes. It was an area I have had a lot of experience and she hadn't understood something.) I need to find ways to be right and explain where she is going wrong without her getting on the defensive or resenting me because I know something she doesn't.

I wasn't trying to boast or be critical of her lack of knowledge. I had been framing my responses as non-confrontationally as I could, but she still took exception to it. And found ways to justify her correctness later. "The company accepted the file she sent."

Is it better to let her make the mistake and learn from it? Better that someone other than me cops the ire when they tell her what she has done is wrong?

This is probably the hardest problem I have at the moment. Learning how to guide her to a correct solution to problems she raises herself without it becoming a you're wrong/I'm right argument.

The CD player isn't working (hence lack of music which could have calmed her) actually was that the CD itself was dirty and she didn't know how to wash it/clean it.

If I don't know anything. I find it a challenge to discover the answer. Google it. Go on forums. Experiment. Ask for Help. All of those things she finds difficult as she sees it as yet another indication that she is flawed. Hence further threatening her already fragile self image.

You have certainly been successful in finding specific behaviours to deal with. it is important to approach things in a way that doesn't overwhelm you (or her) and choosing one behaviour is a good idea to work with.

You may have already found that pwBPD have a strong need to be right as their fragile sense of self doesn't withstand self examination or being wrong very well.

The problem becomes being  'bogged down in the detail' so to speak.

And we contribute to the dynamic by showing that we ARE right (and quite often we ARE right but they are still willing to conflict the nitty gritties!)


This is the 'crazy making' part of BPD right here!

Sounds like your sister might be projecting. Are you familiar with this mechanism? They project things they don't like about themselves onto other people in order to avoid negative feelings about themselves. The crazy making part is that they are EXACTLY the things you would say about them! And then you become embroiled in a discussion about who is right. it depletes energy and time.

The strange thing is, we engage. We know we are right but when they tell us we're wrong we follow the compulsive road which is to explain why we are right - PROVE it if you like.

Why do you feel a need to prove you are right to her? Could it be ok to just let it be? If she is the one who will be affected by her decision are you able to just let her go ahead and be wrong?

if you are affected by the decision are you able to just take control and ignore what she has to say?




What do you think? Is it her problem or is it yours? how do YOU learn?


Why do you need to be the one to guide her to a correct solution? is she not an adult who can determine for herself what a correct solution is? perhaps you could examine whether it is the right solution or YOUR right solution!


Well her self image is her self image. If it is fragile is it likely to be strengthened by other people finding solutions for her?

or is it possible to let her feel what she feels? it is very hard I know to allow others to feel the effects of their own actions but isn't it really the loving option? to let their lives and their decisions and their problems and their solutions belong to them no matter how far away it is from what we desire for them?

Just some alternative ways of thinking on these things

Thanks Ziggiddy, this letting go will be an ongoing lesson I fear.

She presented me with another problem last night (computer related) and wanted help/advice how to fix it. I reproduce the problem my end and it was fine and I suspect she had something in the cache her end or she was logged in to something and this was causing her the problem.

I tried to apply all the things I'm learning and carefully chose non threatening responses to explain what might be happening, started off by sympathising etc. Then set out the steps as logically as I could.

This went on over a couple of emails. I could tell she was getting stressed. But I think I managed to explain the issue.

This morning I discover I had the problem all wrong it wasn't this aspect she was having trouble wth it was something related. (Which I was able to fix)

So either she has difficulty expressing her problem clearly or once she discovered she had been doing something wrong she quickly shifted the focus.

Once I would have reacted, this time I just sighed, knew why she had done it and addressed her new issue.

I hear what you're saying about it being MY problem and not hers and I need to work out how she does learn best (making mistakes and finding her own solutions? or perhaps my task if helping her to identify the real issue as sometimes that is unclear)

On another issue I had a lightbulb moment.

She is one of those people who can be, if anything, too thoughtful. I see this now as seeking approval. She had a job where being thoughtful was a big part of it. She was very good at this job, loved it and loved the thanks and praise she got from it. Now she is retired, when she is stressed, she resorts to these things to get that same feel good response.

If at a dinner table with three people, and the other two are deep in the midst of a discussion she either can't follow or has no interest in, she'll interrupt and offer "more wine", "is the breeze too chilly", "would you like another cushion" and everyone stops talking and stares at her in amazement, wondering why she interrupted when it was obvious they didn't need anything.

I now see it as there was an underlying sense of abandonment by being left out of the conversation which was causing her stress and her best cure for stress was praise for being thoughtful.

Hopefully in future, I will be able to handle it better, perhaps by laughingly suggesting that how could we want anything as she has been such a good hostess, possibly apologise for excluding her in the conversation, try to ease her in to it.

Understanding why she does this though will go a long way to help me deal with it. Formerly it was irritation and impatience.

Our mother (whose mother I believe had BPD) must have learned how to handle people with BPD as she used to caution me from reacting.

But one phrase she used a lot was "a fox smells their own smell first"

Projection can be very revealing. One common criticism she has of other people (tradespeople/employees) is that they are trying to "diddle" her. Given things she has let slip, she does the same to other people when she thinks she can get away with it.

Good point. I think, deep down, I am trying to protect her. Which in turn is a form of enabling. My concern is that if she isn't helped she gets this feeling of being abandoned/let down again which also isn't good.