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I think after all the hurt and trauma we have been put through, its good to remember, we will never feel the levels of agony; desperation; shame; self hatred; emptiness; confusion; and pointlessness a borderline feels. We can experience true happiness, whereas they are suck eternally with the way they feel, it being persistent, relentless, and all consuming. Theirs lives are one long endurance test.

I don't know about you but that makes me feel a hell of a lot better about the damage done. Its made me really appreciate so much I took for granted, I am lucky to be able to be truly free, I am not stuck in that prison, I'm totally in control of my life.

I agree bungenstein. I think it's easier for us to identify what our issues are. I think the hard part is owning it. I can't truly understand what the core wound of abandonment feels like and I empathize. It's also a distorted belief system and having a sound mind, I can't think along the lines of disordered thinking. Above all, it is a mental illness, a prison as you say.

I feel compassion and in that same breath, if someone isn't self-aware enough or committed to working on their trauma, it's not for me to be caretaker. It's more important that I take care of me, have strong boundaries to keep the dysfunctional behaviors from high conflict personalities, toxic individuals and personality disordered traits out.

i totally agree. As someone who suffers from intermittent depression, I feel that I can empathise with her. But the pain a borderline feels is beyond average comprehension. We talk about people feeling empty or whatever, but this is beyond any of that.

I feel that sort of empathy takes away the anger of the situation, allows me to understand why they grasp at happiness with every ounce of strength that they have. It's a life of hope and hopelessness all the time.

Its why I can't just leave her, I can't 'abandon' her.

I don't mean any harm, and I am not be jealous. But I think we are better off. We deal with the trauma and damage, and recover. A BPD, like my ex, just moves to the next victim. They never get closure. And all this adds more pressure on the next relationship. My ex is obsessed with having a baby. I pity they guy she is with now. He is going to hate himself, someday.

My pain is nearly over, and in time I will move on and be more aware of   , but she carries all that hurt with her. Sooner or later, it must burst.

I don't want to be close... .!

I hope I get here. Today is a bad day. As thankful as I am not to be in that BPD prison I didn't deserve what i got and the pain I have been thru and am feeling none.  I hope I get to where you are. Cuz honestly my ex BPD seems pretty happy right now it bothers me.

That happiness you see is not true happiness wilt as much as it may appear to you. Please remember you know this. Thats important.

Basing my own sense of happiness on how my expBPD " appeared" kept me in the locks of codependency, which is something we all need to recognize to self heal. .Quite literately when I realized this, I began to really how unhealthy the r/s was and how unhealthy it made me. 

Of course the wounds will always be there from much in that r/s but learning that true happiness is based on self fulfillment. Fulfillment from within and not gained (or taken) from another. Not based in codependency. 

These things aren't possible in that type of r/s. 

You have the power to find true happiness.  You'll get there. 

None of this is easy as we heal.  Sending support.

I dunno, for me at least. I feel like I can understand a lot of it. Because I have become more like a borderline myself. My identity is erratic, I feel emotionally enslaved to others, sometimes I feel empty, otherwise I cry. I feel like I can't trust anyone and I feel like I'm always in trouble and like no one can understand.

Maybe, but we can get pretty close.  When I was with her I wanted a healthy relationship full of true intimacy, and I have the ability to empathize well, so as we became emotionally enmeshed and she shared what was really going on with her I felt it, all the way, and of course trying to make the relationship work and because I cared about her, I set about making her feel better, making her happy, only to realize over time that there would be a continuous stream of discontent with no real resolution to anything; there's a line between caring and rescuing, and I did cross it, but not for very long.  But the point is I felt her pain all the way.

And then as the relationship progressed, where I was once the soother to her pain to begin with I became a trigger for it, so my ability to make her feel better died about the same time my desire to do so did.  And as I started calling her on her sht, that one-way crap was getting way old, that created shame in her, since she knew I was right.  I didn't see it as an unreasonable expectation to have her show up like a responsible adult and an equal partner, but I didn't know what I didn't know then.

Anyway, yes we can feel exactly what a borderline feels if we get close enough and connect well enough, the obvious difference being we can walk away and let the wounds heal, where the onslaught continues endlessly for them.  And then we can develop compassion.

I'm sorry that you feel empty inside. You feel confused and perhaps a little scared feeling erratic. Have you talked to a doctor or mental health provider?

I am following this thread as it is helpful. Thank you

Comparing ourselves to them, it's the behaviors that matter most.

I'm glad I don't change my mind as many times, how exhausting.

I'm thankful that my pains didn't come from hurting someone else.

Yeah, my last counselor called me lazy, said that I need to grow up and that I'm not suffering, cancer patients are. Got a new one now, hope it turns out better. I really can't take any more. Thanks man, for your kind words.

I've had really severe depersonalization disorder up until like the last month, so it's really hard to make progress when you literally have no access to your identity or any ability to comprehend your own emotions. I must say that I've always been pretty mentally ill, but it got a trillion times worse from being with her.

I feel like this sometimes. I know the people that I can trust. I have great friends and I am fortunate that they have been with me through all of this. But I understand what you are saying about sometimes feeling empty. I feel it and lonely. I feel at times who I was and am was tied up in her.  I hate trying to find myself all over again.

"agony; desperation; shame; self hatred; emptiness; confusion; and pointlessness"

I don't know.  I'm 44 with a string of bad r/ss, I'm estranged from my entire FOO, I've had two marriages that failed... .I think I've experienced all of those things and especially in the last 5 mths since my BU with my uBPDexh.  I have a gaping wound that is deep and goes all the way back to my childhood.  I do have hope that I can heal and one day be free of those feelings, unlike the pwBPD.


BuildingFromScratch, I am so sorry you had that experience!  What a terrible T!  And from the person you need to validate your feelings the most!  I hope your new T works out.  I've had a couple of bad counsellors, one which was my marriage counsellor.  She did nothing to help, if anything she made things worse.  I've found a really good counsellor now and she validates my feelings and is a real cheerleader for my recovery.

I do agree the turmoil they have inside is relentless.  It has to take its toll mentally and psychically.  I saw my BPDxgf go from joy to utter despair in less than on a day on many occasions.  I have no doubt this is why many of them seek other coping mechanisms such as alcohol to ease the pain.  My ex lost everything due to her alcoholism and now she's living with her parents in AZ at 43 years old.  She's starting to drink again out there now  too and finds no comfort in AA or any structured program. 

I am struggling with all she put me through, but I would be lying if I said I had no compassion for her plight in life.  It would seem her road will be a turbulent one the rest of her life, very sad.

Thank you for being kind Pingo, it helps! I hope you feel better, people really can't comprehend how deep borderline wounds go. They go right to your inner baby. ;[

I still am having a hard time understanding how a man can be so caring and sweet can just walk away and not look back after 4 years. He is also a great loving father to his son. Never lost his temper or anything with him. Do people with BPD feel anything after the relationship ends? I know that is a hard question to answer but I can't seem to get it seems so unreal to me. It also throws me then we did text he never really asked anything about me just pleasant and to the point very little small talk. Is that their way of trying to keep you at a distance so they don't attach again?

Borderlines feel everything intensely; think of it like the volume knob on their emotions is turned up to 10 and stuck.  Anyone who feels like that would develop ways to deal with it, we all do to some extent, and once a relationship with a borderline is at it's end, you are nothing but a trigger for those emotions, so they use the tools, projection, cognitive distortion, replacements, impulsive behavior, substance abuse, whatever it takes to not feel, and again, we all do that to some extent with emotions we don't want to or can't deal with, it's just extreme with borderlines and BPD is a mental illness, so some of the tools diverge from what we call reality.

So that's his way of dealing with it, what are you doing for you?  Congratulations for finding this site and focusing on your healing; what is it important for you to do for yourself right now?

Thank you fromheeltotoe

To be honest I'm stuck I don't know how to heel and move on. I am hurting so bad tonight because I looked on his new gf Facebook and they are out having a good time and I am so jealous and hurt. I did call a therapist and I am waiting for a intake interview. I'm still waiting for him to come back just so I stop hurting but I know that wrong and maybe he is happy with her and will fine what he needs in her. I just dont know anymore

not sure… because I don't know about all his pain.  But what he made me aware of is that actually, I felt a lot of things that he felt, but I never really admitted it to myself. 

here are some of the firsts that I went through with him:

dialled him multiple times in a row… to the point that he turned his phone off, when I thought he was with someone else = I felt big time abandonment.

When I met him, and connect with him, I felt really vulnerable and it looked like a giant abyss to me.  I was NOT in control… mostly of myself.

Engulfment…

I saw myself in a way that was so different than what I thought of myself.

I think they communicate their pain to us, and by connecting with a borderline, the make us see that we ourselves have gaping wounds, when we thought we were just fine and dandy!  How I disdained vulnerability before I met him. Maybe I never allowed myself to really "fall" for someone.  I was always in control. ALWAYS.  with him I wasn't.  Because he SAW my pain, he saw ME… it was irresistible.

Maybe I will feel the same pain… the only difference is I want a,b,c,d AND e in my life, and I am willing to do everything it takes to get there.  therapy, pain, love, etc.  I am confronting my fears, and incredibly willing to change… that, I think is the thing that sets us apart from those with a personality disorder. The willingness, and ability to change.

I'm sorry you're hurting Left, we've all been there and it is very painful.  I don't know much of your story except your relationship ended and he has a new gf; probably not a good idea to look at anything on Facebook anymore that will be hurtful, yes?  I got off Facebook entirely about a week after I left her, it wasn't doing me any favors in general and I certainly didn't need to cyberstalk her, but I'm sure she got with someone else right away, probably someone she already had some sort of relationship with, but at that point I didn't care.  Once I started learning about the disorder it became clear that the same sht I went through would show up in any relationship with her and I certainly didn't envy the next victim, then again, we were all volunteers.

I made a list of all the unacceptable crap I put up with when I was with her, the list grew as the fog cleared, and I read it at times when I missed her.  Crazy that, how I can miss someone who treated me like sht and who I didn't trust, but such are these relationships, mixed emotions, and the 'missing her' part and the reasons behind it have been fertile field for growth moving forward.  Any of that speak to you?  

I dont think they feel a damn thing, well, maybe not at the time they dump us.

Yes I can relate to it. The problem is for the most part my bf treated me nicely but was extremely needy. When we would fight he would say very mean things but would always say he was sorry. He was very possessive didn't want anyone near me and always would rather stay home than go out. The part that hurts is I didn't know he had this illness and I truly believe he loved me and would never leave me.  Now he seems to be out all the time and happy with this other women who is much older and seems to have money

fromheeltoheal makes a very good point. We become a trigger and a pwBPD can't cope. They return to their emotional baseline and are happy in the honeymoon. The underlying trauma isn't fixed if their not working on their core trauma. The cycle repeats. That said, it depends on the partner, tolerance and how triggering they are.

I really question the idea that they feel everything intensely. I have always felt things rather intensely. I use those intense feelings as motivation to try to find ways to make things better. I can't seem to buy into the notion that they are such a&&holes because they feel things so deeply.

The only feeling that I see my husband exhibit that is at extreme levels of intensity is selfishness. With other emotions, he seems to be almost incapable of feeling anything.

Dont forget anger too. Holy hell she would go from zero to 60 on the rage scale leaving me in a heap on the floor, deathly afraid to say anything or do anything. Funny part is, it wasn't yelling. It was a cold detachment towards me that made me feel like a total loser who couldn't do anything right.

Yea, what emotions are we talking about here that are so intense? Like hate being one of them, or extreme jealousy?

With that being said I never saw intense compassion or empathy, or kindness from her ever.  In my opinion the only intense emotions she wrestles with are mostly negative emotions.

I also don't buy into this notion that WE cant relate... .If WE could remember our childhood at three years old we could, or better yet go watch the average child wrestle with emotions that overtake them they don't understand or have any control over.  What everyone hasnt said here is the BPD is emotionally arrested and has the emotional impulse control of a three year old. It's in every piece of litature about that disorder. 

I personally dont care if can't climb into my ex's head to see that becaue I've seen enough of the collateral damage she has caused to her friends, family, and me to know what's going on.

This got me thinking. I question if they feel too. This thread made me start wondering if they do in fact feel or if they are just abusers themselves. Mine came from a highly dysfunctional family and was physically sexually emotionally abused as a child... .doesn't data show that there is a High probability that children who endured just abuse will grow up to be abusers themselves?  

By me saying I think my exgf has BPD that might be to generous of me... .maybe she doesn't have BPD... .maybe she is just an abuser and feels nothing. Thoughts?

I always felt like... .towards the end... .she treated me the way her father treated her. And all I wanted was for her to love me as much as I loved her. She took all that hate and anger towards her father out on me cuz she was to afraid to face him. I became the replacement for her father and she beat the sht out of me emotionally and mentally. Maybe that's all she is... .an abuser. Nothing More. I am giving her way to much credit saying she has BPD.

Here are some snippets from articles on this site, which may help with our understandings:

The problem that I have with focusing too much on the disorder and understanding BPD is the fact that it makes it more difficult for me to detach emotionally. I find myself feeling like a real heel when I try to understand his agony or whatever it is that is going on in his mind. I can't help but say, "What about me? What about my perceptions? What about my feelings? What about my actions?" I am sure that he is living in his own personal hell. I am trying to get to a place where I am no longer worrying about that because worrying about it and thinking about it feels very invalidating to me. My struggles, while they may not be as horrific or as difficult as his, are still very real. My codependent/rescuer/protector tendencies go into overdrive when I think too much about his struggles.

I went through this thought as well after we split.  I read Lundy Bancroft's book on abuse and I got so angry at my ex as it brought to the surface all the abuse I had suffered, abuse that I had denied, overlooked, rationalised, excused, etc.  Lundy Bancroft points out that most abusers do NOT have a mental illness.  I wondered, am I giving him this label to make myself feel better?  That the man I spent 4 yrs with and married is NOT a monster?  I think it was all the anger coming out of the injustice of it all.  Now, 5 mths out, I do accept that my ex has a mental illness.  It may not be BPD, I don't know.  But all I know is he is very troubled.  Does that change the abuse?  Nope.  It was still abuse. 

That is very true Vortex, and I think that's why Skip is always trying to steer us from analysing our exes too much and looking at our own roles in the r/ss.  This is why I found it helpful to focus on the abuse and not the abuser.

To put it bluntly, I get why their jacked up. I don't care. She's someone else's problem. I have to focus now on the damage she caused me and my kids. Forgive me if I don't give a Sh*t about their struggles. Got my own now. However, I will go on record, as I said before, they feel nothing and they sure don't care either.

The damage she did to me is something I will struggle with fir year to come. Feeling pity for her or trying to understand her will not help me at this point. My life is in turmoil and falling apart. It takes every ounce of strength to get up in the morning. I go between I love her and want her back to I hate her and hopes she rots in hell. All I know is I don't want to feel like this anymore. I am in therapy on meds and yet I still cry and am depressed. When do I see the silver lining?

Yes, as vortex says
Valid questions.  We all detach differently, and for me, I thought I was literally going insane in the relationship, caught up, enmeshed with, continuous chaos, wild mood swings, abuse, blame, rude behavior, insanity.  I fled because I just couldn't understand what the hell was going on, I certainly couldn't fix it, and my attempts made it worse.  So as I started learning about the disorder everything started to make sense, I suddenly understood why she does the things she does, and that helped a great deal.  It didn't make it OK, not by any stretch, but it suddenly made sense.

And what also made sense was I would never get my needs met there.  Borderlines are need-driven and meet those needs by using other people, and are also emotionally arrested, so even if they wanted to consider our needs and feelings they would have limited or no ability to do so.  Of course everyone's different, but my ex fit the descriptions to a T.


 And therein lies the gift of these relationships: a relationship with a borderline shines a spotlight on areas that still need work, and the processing that comes out of that can result in a huge growth spurt moving forward.  We need validation, compassion and empathy coming out of these relationships, since we were usually getting the opposite in them, and as we get them externally we can re-remember how to give them to ourselves.  If the clinical side of the disorder doesn't help like it did me, best to let it go and focus on ourselves, a requirement for detachment, and maybe some day in the future we can look back and have compassion for our ex's struggles, once we've dealt with our own stuff and built a new life we love.  Take care of you!

FHTH, excellent post! So true for myself and my past r/s w my ex.  As my T said early on when I asked why the immense chaos: "you had a need."

I couldn't be in a r/s like that without going further insane.  My happiness comes from fulfillment and intrinsic goodness.

Really good advice here FTHT. Thank you.

  You're welcome, as we all heal together.   |iiii

I am currently really hungover, and ever since my split I get really bad hangover anxiety. I wonder if this anxiety is similar to how a borderline feels, I wonder if its like they have a constant 24/7 hangover?

I think for most of us on this forum the need for closure and the heartbreak lingers.  People of our nature (usually co-dependents, or gentle and empathetic souls) seem to gravitate towards people that suffer from BPD.  Regardless of my own pain, I can't seem to turn my back.  I feel sorry for her and I don't want to be like everyone else that has just thrown her in the cold.  My situation wasn't as extreme as some.  She wasn't aggressive nor physically abusive.  She didn't have rages where she put me down.  She was just an emotional void... .sometimes.

These boards have armed me with the knowledge of WHY my relationship didn't work out. It is comforting out there knowing that there are others whom carry the same emotional turmoil, but it doesn't make it any easier.

Does anyone know if they gain any self worth through therapy?  Is there any chance that it therapy helps heal what they are feeling inside?

They rarely stay in therapy. They quit or find an excuse with the therapist.

It's difficult to generalize about this and I would like to believe in successes.

I can tell you that my expBPD  sees several therapists per week as well as being on meds, for almost 2 yrs. He has been identified so I assume that his therapy focuses on DBT, although I have maintained NC so unsure.

That said, he still baits me to this day. And I am aware he does this to others.