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Help. My marriage has been going downhill for the last year. My wife with BPD is continuously claiming low libido. I regard myself as a regular man so have regular intimacy needs and regard sex once a week to 10 days to be normal. For the last year the frequency has dropped progressively and now it is like she is only able to function sexually once a month and even then with great effort but yet when we are in the moment she appears to be quite normal and passionate.

Can someone advise me? This is causing great problems in our marriage and I am afraid that we are heading for a painful breakup if the matter continues to deteriorate as it has been in recent months.

She totally denies that she has BPD and is unwell, yet she once admitted to me that she was diagnosed as having BPD.

Many of us find sexual/intimacy issues with our spouses, but it could be a physical issue also. How old is your wife? Could she be facing some hormonal issues? This can start happening as young as 30's

she is 37

she has been on antidepressants for years but this cant explain her low libido completely as in the beginning she was very exciting

Menopause or perimenopause can cause decrease in libido. So can many other things.

Is she going through a therapy for example? They could be digging out some stuff that is causing a change in her behaviour for a while. You wrote that you have sex, but it seems to come with great effort... .I'm sorry, but it doesn't sound too good to me. I hope you don't seem to her as to be pushing her to have sex? I mean even if you are not making an issue at all, anyone (BPD or not), can be very easily offended/hurt/feel to be blackmailed to have sex. Then again some cases i've read here the pwBPD has been deliberately witholding sex and using it as a very mean tool to achieve something.

It's a very complicated thing, relationships and sex life. Even without BPD in the mix... .Partner's lack of desire hurts most of people in a very deep level; one starts to feel unwanted and even rejected and that's really hard to deal with.  It's natural, but might make the more sensitive and (deep down caring) partner very upset. Being unable to meet your needs your wife might fear you'll end up dumping her, which could make her feel worse.

Talking to a family counselor might help, but it might also add to her feelings of being inadequate, wrong/bad/etc (which i've understood most BPD feel deep down).

Proteus,

First, hello and welcome! You will find a lot of great support here.

Second, I'd like to address the basic conflict. Many couples have a conflict that one partner has higher libido than the other. Please understand that this does not make either partner right or wrong. Both partners have valid needs and desires. Resolving this conflict in a way which feels reasonable and fair to both parties is tricky in any relationship. Especially because talking about sex is difficult for most of us, and so is asking directly for what we want.

In addition, if your partner's libido changes, it could be a bunch of things. Some medical/physical. Some relating to other conflicts in your relationship. (I have about zero desire for sex with my wife at times when I can barely have a civil conversation with her, for example.)

From a medical point of view, low libido isn't itself a problem. It is only a problem if it is causing distress to the person having the low libido.

So this is already complicated as it is... .and... .

Third, with BPD, this issue of your wife having lower libido than you do can become all kinds of toxic fights and control battles.

Are you willing to share the details when you try to initiate sex with your wife? Or any times where she tries to initiate sex (if she does)?

some quick replies. She I believe really believes that she is not well psychically and at other times an array of unclear physical problems crops up, all contributing to her not having any libido. I however at times get the feeling that she is playing a very elaborate trick on me but I can never prove my point to her and I will have patience for long periods in the hope that I choose the right moment to try my luck so to speak. Its become more frequent that she disappoints me and refuses to make love and these days it often results in conflict. Sometimes it feels like I am in a big catch 22 situation like a bad dream from which I cant wake up.

And then when I behave good or if she is ready she will invite me to make love. Which is always good and fulfilling. The awful part is that she at times goes wacky on me and would become aggressive and very worked up if I just unconsciously am touching her. And she would say I cant stand being touched now. But yet when we are making love she cant stop saying how much she loves me touching her intimately, yet when I in normal times just have some physical contact with her she treats me as if I am radio-active waste.

I have no answers but just want to share that I am in a similar situation with my uBPDw.  I feel I am making it worse by making it clear that I want sex way more often than she does. She tells me she feels pressured into being sexual when she doesn't really want to, but isn't willing to talk about it, work on it, etc.  We are newlyweds which makes it even more painful; I understand a dropoff after a certain amount of time but for us to be having this particular problem so early on is quite concerning to me. I agree with others that there are a lot of issues involved in this type of situation and that it is a very delicate topic in any relationship, particularly so when one partner is disordered and the other has  my-issues!

I feel your pain and we are far from alone, seems like high vs low desire issues are very common in most marriages and long term relationships.

Hang in there my friend.

Remember... .your partner owns their body, you don't. Even if you are married. It is NOT right to have sex with someone without their consent. I don't mean signing a release form here, or asking a legalistic question... .if they are expressing interest or participating eagerly, that is clear consent. If you are getting mixed messages (words, feelings, actions don't match), it is time to stop and ask some clarifying questions, if only "Are you enjoying this?"

This is a baseline ethical position. (Consent happens to be very important to me personally!) I don't see any indication that anybody in this thread has a problem living up to it.


Your desire to make love is valid. So is her right to decline.

It is her body, and her right to do with it what she chooses, for her own reasons, no matter how good or bad her reasons are. She also has no obligation to tell you her reasons, or justify them to you. YOU have the obligation to honor her wishes with her body.

Thinking that she "owes" it to you is just going to send you down a toxic rabbit hole. I don't know if you are there, but climb back out of that one if you have gone down there.

... .However... .even if you get this right... .there still is conflict in this situation.

How you handle your end of the conflict will make a big difference in the situation, for better or for worse.

If you give us a description of how the conflict plays out, I'd be happy to offer suggestions on things you could do to improve the situation for yourself.

This is such a difficult issue. It's just a given that partners will have different needs for sex.

I can only speak from my perspective as a woman, but I'm guessing that for more women than men, when a relationship gets dysfunctional, desire extinguishes. From talking with my female friends, it seems that emotional harmony is more of a prerequisite for them than their husbands in order to want sex.

My uBPDh seems to be an exception to this rule. The problem for us is that both of us still harbor anger and mistrust and neither wants to initiate intimacy. I think it's likely that I'll have to make the first move to change this, but it's going to take me a while to forgive all the bad BPD acting out.

I've read many topics about BPD and sex, and it's never simple.

My BPD was open to sex before you settled together (the first 3 months or so). Then it quickly went down to once a month, sometimes several days in a row, and then nothing for a few weeks.

If I tried to initiate intimacy (not only sex), he would reject me. I'm very respectful of people's body and would never insist or make a remark, but I didn't find the rejection normal in a loving couple.

He would be the one who decided when it was the moment for sex. He'd always say "we should make love more often... ." but back to nothingness again.

Now that he's been away for months, I find this sick 

Oh yes... .sex and BPD. One of my first posts here. When my dBPDh and I first got together, it was hot and heavy. Now, 5 years into the marriage it's trickled down to once a month, if not longer. He claims LOW T, but doesn't want to go to a doctor for it. I think it might be partially Low T, because when we do talk about it (very touchy subject, btw) his go-to argument is "Women cannot understand because your parts always work for sex"

With that being said, he has expressed how bad he feels about it, how he misses the physical relationship, so I believe what happens with BPDers is in play here, IE the self-hatred, self-esteem issues, and afraid to try due to 'failure'. No amount of me telling him what I think will change what HE thinks.

So currently we are at an impasse.

So, if she refuses her body does he have the right to take his body and use it with someone else?

No, not unless it is something that they both agree to do. Doing it without the partner's consent is wrong.

My situation was a little different. After we got married, my husband's interest in me sexually seemed to fall off the map. We had only been married a couple of days and I woke up to him looking at porn and taking care of himself. Since he was pleasuring himself, that was supposed to be okay. I never understood why he would choose to pleasure himself when he had a very eager new bride that was very willing and able to take care of his needs.

No. Her choice not to consent sex with him doesn't give him ANY rights.

What you describe sounds to me like cheating when stated that way. He doesn't have the RIGHT to do that, although he does have the ABILITY to do that.

In addition, her choice not to grant consent doesn't take away any (other) rights he already has.

He does have the right to end the r/s, because he wants one that includes sex. (or more sex.)

He also has the right to try negotiating a non-monogamous relationship. This can work. It is difficult to manage. Starting it by cheating first, then trying to make everything right after is well ... .more difficult to manage.

I hope I didn't sound too challenging with my question.

These BPD's sure have a way of messing things up.

I hate to bring this up but when I read Low Libido my jaw dropped.

Is it possible that she has you painted black and is having an affair?

I hope it's not the case and I only mention it because that's what my uBPDxw used as an excuse with me. I knew something was wrong because we weren't being physical anymore. She gave me some BS story about how she just doesn't like being touched physically and I even witnessed her recoiling when my son then 12 would try to hug her... .An act? I don't know. She had me so convinced I even researched it online and found out that a lot of women actually go through this and the couples end up in a sexless marriage. In my case It was all lies, smoke and mirrors, manipulation by a master DECEIVER  . She even tried to convince me to go ahead and have sex outside of the marriage because of her... .LOW LIBIDO. I almost did it too but at the last minute I bailed out because all I could think about was that I was betraying her and the kids. I informed her that my love for her was based on more than sex and that I would just have to deal with it because I loved her. I even suggested that we go to counseling together. She told me she didn't want to go to counseling because I would find out how F¥CKED up she is. One of the many    I ignored in my 20yr r/s with her!

Imagine my surprise when I found her in bed with the neighbor! One of the first things I said to her when We had a chance to talk was... ."So, I guess you found your Libido huh" She still couldn't admit that it was all an elaborate scam on her part and kept to the lies as only a BPD can.

Sorry, I hope this is not your situation. I only share my story with you because you never know!

Good Luck,

MWC... .  *)

Mywifecrazy, I can't help but think of my situation when you told your story.  Soon after our sex life dried up I thought something was amiss.  I couldn't put my finger on it, but I really suspected someone else. 

I talked to her about our love life and she too, told me to get it somewhere else, and that money is what mattered.  Apparently, I didn't make enough money for her to have sex with me.

Then, I heard some stuff about her "jokingly" making sexual propositions to other guys.  It's funny, she would recoil when I touched her or she would get angry when I brought up sex.

Yet, she could openly "joke" about it with everyone else.

I meant "before WE settled down together" ... .  :)

Oh lord, I'm sorry that you had to experience this, I would have felt rejected and disgusted   

My wife is doing just this. In fact i just posted a thread today with this as the topic. What do I do? I'm trying to just ignore it. Her libido is just fine, so I'm not sure how long she will last, or if she will try someone else to satisfy it. I guess at the end of the day. It's her body and she chooses what she chooses.

Since I stopped the shouting and arguing by walking away, she has gone to silent treatment and with holding sex as her manipulations of choice.

Yup. Those games are unfair and SUCK.     

Those games don't change that it is her body and her right to do with it what she chooses, for her own reasons, good, bad, or none at all.

Thanks everyone for your contributions to the thread I started. This is very hard for me. I dont even feel much to get into this discussion as I am trying so hard to please her in the hope that she will be intimate with me and allow lovemaking. The worst for me is the feeling of rejection and the fact that she has no remorse, its just the way things are and I have to get over it. And if I get emotional, angry of protest against her unfairness, I get punished for even longer. Now I am waiting on her to be ready to make love for a month. This is the longest period ever between lovemaking since we are together and I am really not sure how this will play out except that it will become even worse. I have started seeing a therapist who completely understands my BPD spouse's manipulativeness and control. Sometime I feel that I will go crazy with all this tension and I am starting to be very unhappy.

Be careful with this! You need to try to stop focusing on pleasing her so much. I have been married for 16.5 years and I got into the pattern of trying to please my husband and take care of his needs in the hope that he would reciprocate. It created a pattern where I never felt like I could do enough. It created a pattern where I was putting all of my energy into pleasing him and was neglecting myself.


I know how difficult it is to deal with those feelings of rejection. Even when you know that is how things are, it doesn't make it any easier to accept. It doesn't make it any easier to feel like the one person that you want and love is turning away from you. It really does a number on one's self esteem.

Is there any way that you can take the focus off of sex? Can you find other healthy things to do to work out those frustrations? I will go bake cookies or rearrange the house or find some other positive activity to occupy my mind. If you can go to a gym or take a walk or find some other physical activity, that sometimes help relieve some of the tension. Find ways to focus on you.

I 2nd this statement!  The more I did to try and please my dBPDh, the worse he treated me.  Once I started doing things to take care of myself and please myself, and then to meet him half way on things, the more he has come to respect me.


Exercise and friendships worked for me, too!  If the focus is too much on sex, my dBPDh has expressed that makes him feel pressured, then the worse it was.  Right now I am trying to keep the focus on being close and then proceeding to sex.  If we plan time to have sex, it just seems to be terrible sex. My dBPDh feels too much pressure from this, so for now sex has to be spontaneous and when we are feeling connected.

I'll admit to low libido and part of the problem with me, despite menopause, is that I just don't find my BPD husband attractive anymore. It's not that I find him physically unattractive, though he could minimize that beer belly if he didn't drink so much. It's rather that having watched the crazy, there's things I've seen that I can't unsee.

How do the rest of you get past this? Frankly whenever there is a hint of the dysregulated behavior, I'm so completely turned off by this man that the last thing I want to do is to have sex with him.

My desire for sex helps me to forgive and forget very quickly LOL.

It wasn't always that way. With a bit of understanding, I've developed some compassion for my wife about BPD/NPD. Once I understood the burning pain they experience I felt sorry for her in  a way. Not that I excuse the behaviour. I do not stand for abuse any more.  But I don't judge her for it.

Unfortunately mine has gone over to things like sex and silent treatment to punish me for perceived wrongs which I really have no response to.

It may be her efforts to get me to initiate divorce so she can get rid of this painful relationship and start with someone else. I can go years without sex too, so it's not going to work, and the silent treatment give me time to focus on me.

I do remember having a desire for sex--actually I think that's what got me into this mess in the first place.

Just a word of advice for those of you with female partners in menopause--it gets even more difficult. :'(  I was really surprised when it happened to me, though I'd heard about female desire going extinct, but I didn't believe it.

Thinking positively, perhaps a large part of loss of desire is that I've been so irritated by this man for so many years and the fact that he seems to have no clue as to how his BPD acting out impacts me. I've got a lot to forgive--nothing really horrific like cheating, but just constant daily irritation. I'm working on letting go of that with counseling--so maybe there's still hope, even with my diminished hormonal drive.

And my advice as a male who has a peri-menopausal / post-menopausal  partner: Expect changes in sex drive. Not necessarily down. Or up. Or consistent! There is a lot of variation, both between women and sometimes for the same woman over time.

i agree :)

Thanks, Grey Kitty and Shankz,

Once I get over my resentment, maybe there is hope for me after all.    lol

And I must say that using the tools I've found here, specifically SET and trying not to JADE, has really helped keep things more harmonious. Also my individual therapy has helped me to have compassion and realize my BPDh is really wounded and not merely an a$$hole.

I'm fortunate in that he's BPDlite. And I think I was fortunate growing up because my mom was full-on BPD, and from an early age I knew there was something wrong with her. The pwBPDlite are easy to miss and start doubting oneself, particularly if they're good at arguing, as my husband is.

Cat Familiar,  I've been around this site for about a year now. And this is the first time I've heard of "BPDlite".  I love it. I'm just wondering when my full blown dBPD/NPD wife will graduate to BPDlite status.  LOL  :)

Hi Moselle,

I bought the Walking on Eggshells book a couple of years ago and the examples were considerably worse than the behavior my BPD husband exhibits. I did recognize some behaviors: splitting, inappropriate and extreme anger and the depersonalization or lack of an identity at times. So I dismissed my theory until some really weird behavior started showing up, specifically that when he got mad at me, he would hit himself in the head and yell. "Is this what you want? You hate me!"

Up until then, I assumed that the acting out was related to his alcohol abuse, but that behavior was so weird and disturbing that I had to revisit my hypothesis.

Then I found out that there are silent BPDs who seem perfectly normal to everyone but their families. And voila--that's what I've got.

Our couples therapist confirmed to me in private that he has a personality disorder and he fits most all of the criteria. I'm glad he is the lite version after reading so much here. The management strategies are working remarkably well... .so far. I really appreciate the honesty and openness of this community. It's helping me let go of years of resentment.

My husband would fit that bill, too but for his avoidance of his family for months at a time. It's the one thing I cannot understand that he does. He can talk to his mom, and brother on the phone for hours and  they get along really well, then he just *poof* quits answering their phone calls for months at a time.

The way he explains it to me... .he says he feels bad for avoiding their first few phone calls, and it just gets easier and easier not to pick the phone up. He'd rather see someone than speak to them on a phone. Don't get it.

His family never says a word about since he's been doing it forever. They just all pick up where they left off. No one makes him feel bad, they contact me and show only concern, and I reassure them he's fine... .just doing his thing again.

My husband is alienated from his two sisters. They live on the other coast, have children (and he doesn't) so their lives are quite different. He was the "identified patient" in the family and the victim of terrible abuse from his narcissistic father. It's made him so sensitive to slights from his sisters that he has frequently claimed, "I'm not part of the family" in spite of invitations from them to participate in events.

He's hanging on to his childhood wounds, even though his parents are dead. He wants closeness with his sisters, but he rejects them at the same time.

I tried to talk with him about this, but then he claims that I'm "on their side." I merely was trying to imagine their perspective. I'm done with this--he can b#tch all he likes about it, which he frequently does during the holidays and I'll just keep my mouth shut.

I though mine was lite too. she is incredibly highly functioning. ie no-one else would know. But I realised and she admitted to being NPD as well. This another kettle of fish altogether!. She alternates between the two, and I get the gloomy, always sick or sore, splitting from the BPD , and the devious, conniving, unbelievably clever of the NPD. It's a heady combination. I'm trying to be grateful for it  :) 

Wow! The "gloomy, always sick or sore" gets really old and it's tiresome to be sympathetic to that when it happens so frequently.

I've got to remember to put my horse trainer hat on with regard to this relationship. I've been reinforcing behaviors I don't want. (Sometimes people think it's cute when a tiny foal puts his front legs on the handler's shoulders, but it becomes life threatening when the foal grows into a 1000 pound horse. And the horse doesn't understand why it was OK before and not OK now.)

I'm going to work on reinforcing the behavior I want to see more of and ignoring the behavior I don't like--the whining and complaining and mopey face.

I had an interesting experience last night. I've sort of been on strike about preparing food every night, which, over the years had become my sole responsibility. I can get by with a smoothie or salad as my dinner, while my husband needs what he calls "real food" but he wasn't willing to prepare it himself.

So last night he did grill steaks and cooked broccoli and heated up leftover potatoes. I asked him a couple of times if he wanted help and he said no, so I did yoga in the living room while he prepared dinner. The grunts and moans coming from the kitchen were unbelievable! I ignored them, but thought of all the times I was preparing dinner while he sat and read a book.

It occurred to me that I have to let go of my desire to be seen as a caring partner. That's part of what keeps me in this bind; I don't want to appear to be selfish. That was a word my BPD/NPD mother used to manipulate me and it worked really well.

Moselle, you're right--that is a tough combination.

I think he's holding onto childhood hurts, too. He was sexually abused, but also people who grew up around the family called him the 'forgotten' child. He's the eldest of three, and when his mother got into the church, she and his younger sister spent time and money going to church, getting dresses new shoes, etc and he wouldn't get anything. His dad refused to go to church, so he would say he's going fishing and sometimes he would say he's taking my husband with him... .but he wouldn't. He would leave him at home only to go fishing with his older cousins and their children.

There's a lot more I haven't said, but I can definitely see how he childhood has affected him. He's said once that he doesn't feel bad about returning their calls because they forgot him. He only said that once, and that was more true than anything else he said about the situation.

Update to my thread. My wife is now not even mentioning low libido, and I have done nothing to antagonise her in at least three weeks, being very careful to totally not even for one moment make her angry or give her an excuse to hold something against me. Now her consistent refrain is that she is unhappy with me. She feels scared that I will upset and traumatise her again. She has bad traumatising dreams. And when I ask her what happened and what could possibly cause this. She tells me I am to blame for everything that ails her. Her unhappiness, bad dreams, anxiety, everything.

Needless to say no sex in over a month now. Yet some interesting irony is happening at the moment.

We last had sex just after her last period ended. At least this is what she thought, but probably it was sometime later, so approximately around the time of ovulation. As we use the rhythm method, she assumed it was safe and she could not fall pregnant. Now it already over a week and her period did not come yet, and now she is additionally stressed and unwell, so no sex, until things are clear and she once again feels well and at peace with the universe. But at the moment I just have to walk on eggshells, be totally well behaved, and hope that sooner or later all will blow over. But for now it seems that this is the longest ever period when she has been so seriously true to her theme that I am to blame for everything and that she is desperately unhappy with me. She even said the other day that she regrets marrying me. I think that probably part of her being so adamant is the fact that some weeks ago I told her that all that she is claiming to be the case is in fact only in her head, and has very little to do with reality and truth.

Sorry to hear this Proteus. I can see you're angry about it.

What are your options?

1. When she blames you for things.

2. When she is in an emotionally dysregulated, delusional state.

Yes you are right Moselle. I am angry, but I have learned how to restrain my anger as they dont achieve anything. In spite of my calm approach she keeps shifting the goalposts, so my attempts at ensuring that she is pleased with me is as elusive as chasing the proverbial pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

I dont really have much options at the moment but to ride out this current crisis. My background situation is complex and she has a hold on me which makes me very much dependent on her goodwill. I came from another country and she threatens to deport me as soon as I am even slightly "rebellious"in her mind.

The best thing is that she agreed and supports me to see a therapist who is in fact a great safety valve for me, but if I thought that there would be the one thing that will please her and ensure that we have harmonious tranquility in our lives, then I myself am very deluded as this will  never happen considering her delicate mental/emotional state. My wish is to save my marriage. My wife is a wonderful and delightful person, and it feels to me that we are just going through a rough spot, but in my heart of hearts I know that things are much more complex especially for her.

She had childhood trauma, when her parents abandoned her as a baby to her grandmother. When she returned to the family home as a school-going child, her parents had had a few other kids, and she felt like an outsider. She always complaints that she never had her mother's love and care when she needed it most as a little baby.

Proteus,

It sounds like you love your wife very much.

We do have choices, even if it sometimes seems like we don't.

I realised 10 months ago with the help of this community that I was handing power and control over to someone with a serious mental disorder. How was I choosing to do that? Well for starters, listening to her blaming and angry outbursts. That's a choice. Stay or go. The healthy choice is go. But when I started doing that she raised the roof with her rage. Well actually I didn't start doing healthy things. I put 14 boundaries in place! I figured go strong or go home LOL. That rage is called an extinction burst, when they try to regain control. Mine lasted 6 months. But now its much better. She respects me and knows I will walk away at the first sign of screaming or even an angry tone. She even apologised last night.

It can get better and does when we (the non's) begin to change. I know you're looking to survive the crisis right now. That's OK. This is a process and takes a while. Have you looked at "The lessons" on the right hand side of this page?

Hang in there. I'm not getting any either. :) I've chosen to switch it and tell her that I will not participate in intimacy until I feel respected and safe. She's becoming more playful and much more respectful. We'll see where that goes.

Thanks Moselle

Your advice is very helpful and I will work at improving my knowledge and learning the necessary skills.

Small update: My wife told me this morning that she felt like throwing up and felt the same yesterday as well. Seems as if she is starting to have morning sickness. So we are together going onto new territory, but I am hopeful that things will slowly stabalise and get better.

Hang in there, and keep working on what you can do.

I hope that this unintended pregnancy doesn't cause too much disruption of your lives.

 GK