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I had a friend suggest that I do good things for myself recently. It isn't exactly new advice, although it is timely. I do plan to follow through on it. That's my inspiration, not my topic here.

My memory of the conversation included the phrase "reward yourself" and that doesn't feel quite right.

Yes, I could give myself a 'reward' of something kind and fun for doing something that is difficult but good for me.

It somehow feels like self-manipulation instead of self-love.

I've done things for myself, recently, and felt overcome by it. It was an unconditional gift to myself when I did it. Putting conditions on it feels like it would taint the gift.

Anybody else have thoughts or feelings about this?

I think it's like the adage 'fake it until you make it'... .which apparently really works as your brain doesn't know what's fake and what's real in the way it makes connections.  So rewarding yourself might seem forced and unnatural but the result might be the same, an increase in self-worth and self-soothing and self-love. 

Maybe this is related, but when my T last year asked me, "so what do you do for you?" I felt like the curious dog turning its head to hear what he was saying. Logically, I understood what he was saying, but setting up something or a time to do something specifically for me felt manipulative and fake. I still don't get it. I didn't even do anything for my birthday this year (I had the kids, so kid activities), or get myself anything.

Looking back, it bugged me when my Ex tried to do things for me. I think part of it may go back to being a latch-key kid of a single parent who worked nights. I learned to take care of myself from a very young age. "This is what needs to be done, why make a 'deal' out of it?" I tend to see life very logically. Sure, there are things I like to do. I went to a movie by myself on Sunday. I guess that qualifies as "self-care" but I don't see the big deal with it. Maybe it's that while I do enjoyable things, I don't take joy in them?

Does this sound familiar?

That's interesting Turkish bc I was also always very independent and didn't like relying on anyone else.  There is a part of me that rebels against myself to avoid self-care!  For example, I love to hike, I find it rejuvenating and it brings me a deep sense of joy to be in nature.  But I find myself making up excuses to avoid going on a hike.  Or another example, doing Yoga for the relaxation as I'm dealing with PTSD type symptoms.  I know I need this in order to feel better yet make excuses or 'forget'... .It's like I'm trying to sabotage my own self-care.  I would really like to understand this more.

I'm with you 100%, I had a number of accomplishments after my divorce.  Did nothing, my T scolded me about not valuing myself.  When I planned my trip (on another thread), my hands were trembling, during the night I woke up regretting it.  But the tickets are non-refundable so I'm going, guess what - everyone I know is happy I am doing this.  It proves often people believe in you more than you believe in yourself.

I read a quote "We have 2 lives, we start living the second one when we realize we only have one"

My motto is "we deserve better than this" or "I deserve better than this". Not that I'm good at it yet. I try to view others and myself as babies or young children. Not to avoid responsibility, but just to acknowledge that our emotional needs will always be rather simple and child like and should be treated with tender care. Definitely makes me feel more justified to relax and do things for my well being.

BFS, what you describe about doing more for your well being sounds fantastic. Keep on doing it!

I try to avoid this wording, for subtle but important reasons:


"I am worth more than this" is better. "I choose to not to accept this" is better still.

I find that the word "deserve" can send you down a rabbit hole. Who says you 'deserve' it? What did you do to deserve it?

You can get lost in the injustice of the universe not giving you what you 'deserve', wallow in self-pity, and avoid making the difficult choices needed for you to go out and GET something better.

I want to acknowledge that using the word 'deserve' doesn't force you down that rabbit hole. In your case, as I said at the start, you sound to be doing very good and gentle things for yourself when you use it, instead of going the way I described.

Perhaps I'm overly sensitive to it because it is something I've heard my wife say during some of her destructive BPD-ish episodes.

Different wordings mean things to different people. I normally use "we" meaning everyone. And the premise to me is that everyone never gets the love and joy that they deserve. When I did a lot of reflecting, this one point really stuck with me more than anything. We all deserve unconditional, undying love, but we will never have it. It makes me kind of sad, but it's also very inspiring and beautiful to think about.