BPDFamily.com

I have been thinking of posting an update and time flies by, then I am tired. So this is short for now.

DD28 was released from jail on 11/15 after her 9 months is jail. Dh and I have decided to provide an apartment for her with a roommate of her choosing. She moved in yesterday. I can tell she is holding on to the edge of overwhelm -- and she is holding on. She has a roommate that has support from her mom as well. There are a couple of other friends there, and they all seem to be working to support each other in many ways. DD said to me today "mom, we are a mixed family here".

I texted her after the time there today helping get things needed for this new home "I enjoyed being there with you and your community family today". She replied, "We did too".  This is how I experienced this group of 20-somethings today. All from various struggling pasts. They are a community. I hope they continue to welcome me as I visit regularly.

Gotta get on toward bed - gd9 asleep on the living room floor on her 'dog' bed with her basket of 'dog' toys made from fabric remnants rolled and taped into various shapes to fetch, with her fabric dog ears taped above her ears. Dh is asleep on the couch, the real dogs are asleep on the floor, and I have this quiet moment to share my joy of today.

I am so grateful for this peace and rest that has found me. Those last 3 months in jail were a much needed break for me as her advocate. Now to keep on doing what has been working to take care of myself.

qcr |iiii

 :)

 |iiii This sounds hopeful and positive, hopefully this little "community" will be a good replacement for her previous friends and prevent her from feeling alone. And of course your support from a safe distance is the best of all options.

Keep us posted!

It feels safe from a distance. It is costly too. Dh and I have to practice acceptance of the financial risks we chose. Transitional housing offered is not real. We consider overnight at the homeless shelter all year instead of only in the winter as continued homelessness, not transitional housing. DD is feeling stressed and overwhelmed by moving into this apartment, my involvement in this move, and all the appointments to get her goals on track. I do appreciate the friends that are with her (details for another post) and their support and comfort.

Then DD's doggie went lame this morning. Went out the doggie door, barking and running at fence - then was barking AT the doggie door - let her in limping badly through backdoor. So called vet for appointment - text to DD for her to come with (it is her dog). Appears to be torn knee ligament equivalent to a human's ACL. Monday will do sedated xray. Then talk options. The cost of surgery to repair this if a ligament tear is A LOT. Equivalent to 2-3 months of her housing costs! I really need her to take on some care of this doggie who is not allowed at the rental house. So DD may be at our house some. Working with gd to keep this contact feeling safe. Have to focus on how gd feels, not how dh and I feel. Or how DD feels.

DD's doggie, age 4 this month, has been in our home from about 6 months of age. DD has been gone from our home over a year. Doggie has bonded to me. I knew the answers to the vet's questions. I got down on the floor to comfort her during exam. DD looked cloudy,most likely feeling left out. She could have gotten down there too and I would have stepped back. Reminded me of times with GD at doctor or dentist when I knew the answers to care questions - DD did not because she was not providing care. Predictably she blamed me for her distress and stopped going to these appointments for gd. She was also upset with me that her dog was whining today, 'bad training' on my part -- like this is not normal at the vet's office? I did not disagree with her out loud. This is also similar to her responses to our care of gd. It is often below the surface. Today it was in her awareness, though she was able to stay emotionally in control.

There are some big traumas between DD and I around her dogs. Two were lost together in traffic when they got out at our business -- DD was the one home to answer the phone on the tags. She was 14. She and gd's daddy brought home a free puppy on Thanksgiving (DD about 3 mos. pregnant) -- "our first baby" name Echo. When we had full care of gd, daddy was gone and DD was never home I was overwhelmed. Convinced DD to let her friend take Echo who was digging up our yard. A couple years later this friend lost her rental house and sent 2 of the 3 dogs (including Echo) to a friends in another town. It was a temporary situation that became permanent. Just like our custody of her daughter. Echo's location is now unknown.

When DD was unable to care adequately for her son, we chose not to take him in as kinship foster parents. He was eventually adopted by his foster parents. There was pressure on us by lawyers and social workers to take custody of our gs that would have led to adoption. We did not have the resources then (or now) to do this We chose to avoid being in the middle between gs's daddy and mommy who  told us 'it will look like we adopted but they would really take care of him'.

There are so many other losses throughout her life. I have acknowledged my part - there were many times I was inconsistent and unavailable in her life as I struggled with my mental health issues. I do get the reality of her inability to care for both her dog, her daughter and son. She seems unable to take on the emotional impact of accepting this. GD's T has said DD may never be able to internalize her part.

All of this history is important for me in accepting and letting go of my desires to 'fix' these losses. I told her today -- we can only learn from experiences and move forward.

qcr

I have met 3 of the 4  friends there yesterday before. Today one of them had left. I picked them all up at Wendy's, dropped 2 at the house and went to vet. with dd's partner 'J'. The other 2 are also a couple.

Yesterday 'J' apologized for how messed up he was last January when I first met him. I responded, "Everyone I met last January was messed up - really messed up. It is good to see you all doing so much better". We will see if they are able to follow through with the promised rent reimbursement to me. Also how the landlord reacts if they are all there when she comes to meet DD and the roommate next week (other woman is official roommate).

The roommate has provided most of the food so far. We got some free living room furniture from a neighbor of ours. DD had all of her bedroom stuff and we got her a mattress. We disposed of the old one when clearing out her room last spring. They all really are working together like a family. They all seem to get DD's struggle and are very supportive and comforting to her. They express their gratitude for my involvement in DD's life.

This gratitude and my responses could be influencing DD's withdrawal from me the past couple of days -- that old feeling of my treating her friends 'better' than her. My involvement in setting up the house - very minimal from my perspective. I am trying to follow recommendations from the tools, videos, lessons here. Limiting my expressions of 'good job' that can lead to her sabotaging her efforts. The fears around perceived expectations that may not be attainable the next day, or next hour. Staying a little on the under-reactive side of things with her and her friends.

Everyone is in recovery. They share some of DD's values -- most of them have been homeless with her sometime in the past few years. Maybe this can actually work for all of them. I choose to stay hopeful and cautious. I also plan to find ways to connect with her weekly over lunch or coffee. Need to find some routine things to talk about allowing playfulness to be part of the picture.

Thanks for all who are here to share this journey with me, and for sharing your stories with me. This is a safe place to be open and vulnerable.

qcr

qcarolr

such good news... one day at a time... .stay hopeful

So two weeks and counting!  |iiii

You are right, settling into the right kinds of routines will help. I have read that it takes 21 days to form a habit, somewhere else that we can internalize something in 6 weeks and in 6 months the changes will show on the brain!

Baby steps.

DD's lab-mix doggie, 4 years old this month, ruptured her knee ligament. Similar to a human's ACL. She needs surgery in about a week to avoid the bone spurs that come soon with this unstable knee. She cannot put any weight on it. The cost is about $3000.  Three months rent! Dogs are members of family, and this dog lives with us. DD cannot have pets where she lives and this dog barks LOUD. She is in 'lockdown' from 9pm to 7am. Our agreement with neighbors.

I have asked DD to get the 2 people staying with her to sign a roommate agreement. They have both said they are willing to pay their share of rent and utilities. This would help so much to reduce the stress of this surgery. We will figure out the 12 week recovery between all of us. We may ask DD to come over when we are not home while GD is at school and I am gone from home. Hmmmm--how to do this with her riding the bus. The 30 minute of walking to get the 10 minute bus ride will be good for her weight loss plan. Helps with mood too. Do we allow her 'partner' to come with her? Hmmmmm. Maybe we can manage this without her at the house. It gets so messy.

There is no end to the trials put in our path.   This too will pass and we will overcome. This sounds good anyway. Actually the good that can come from this is to push/motivate her roommates to make a commitment for the lease term.

qcr

qcarolr-

Dog complications... .but of course! (sorry, couldn't resist    lol)




Great choosin'.

Last week we loaned BPDSD23 a tent. It is hard to put up, one cannot stand in its middle and I already bought a new easier to put up, stand up tall in the middle tent (middle aged campers with back issues) a few weeks ago. She doesn't know about the new tent. I HOPE she will return the borrowed tent clean with all of its poles accounted for HOWEVER, I have no expectations for this. When she returns it with my (secret) hopes attainted I will thank her and tell her she can borrow it anytime.  With a big, honest smile on my face!

Meanwhile, I'm not even planning to ask her to return the tent.

How I have changed! Times were that I would actually "plan for bitterness" over my certainty that she will not return it and further, will not even know where she put it for the next camping trip... .and who even knows if she will ever camp in a tent again. My caution (so, so medium-chill)  has freed me to feel liberated from this sort of negative thought towards her and oddly part of this is because I could afford the new tent. I would not allow her to have anything to do with the new tent because I value it and want to use it myself.

boundaries + hope + caution + well spent dollars that can ease the mind= a decent, loving and productive way to deal with pwBPD. 

Your caution and hope will pay off. Keep at it girl!

Thursday

My friend has a dog that had similar problems. She is a really homopathic person and instead of surgery she just let the dog recover on it's own. I am sure she used some homopathic meds etc but the dog recovered and was fine. Have you thought of getting a second opinion?

Jellibeans, thanks for sharing your friend's experience. I am curious what type and size dog she has?  Our vet went over all the options including holistic alternative treatments. Our labmix girl is 75 lbs.  and has mild hip dysplasia. Leaving her knee so unstable will create a lot of ongoing pain.  I have a rehab vet coming next week to teach us excercises to keep her leg muscles strong with full range motion. Then she will come right after surgery for post op care.

I ruptured my PCL and have great empathy for her feeling unstable and in pain. I am an active,  big girl too!

Qcr

She has a very over weight beagle. Maybe 45 pounds. Her dog did look like he struggled to walk for a while but he never looked or acted like he was in pain. He recovered fine. She is really into all the homeopathic remedies and swears by them

Ok - apartment #1 down, searching for a month to month room while waiting on another -- application accepted, on wait list.

DD28 was in this apartment for 25 days. Today the landlord said she has violated several terms of lease, she will not accept the rent for January, and DD needs to be out by end of weekend. The actual terms violated were smoking outside apartment by DD and her friends and having two folding chairs on the front porch. The other things the neighbors 'reported' to the landlord were 5-6 friends there at one time, with their bikes parked in the lawn and leaned against the porch columns, smoking in front of the house ( DD apartment is through front door of this run-down 1900 era house split into 5 apartments).  I am actually glad she terminated lease. She was calling me twice a week with complaints. She spoke as if she had been there -- it was reports of neighbors across the street.

We will get her stuff back into the cargo trailer and try to find a month to month room to rent. Hopefully the apartment building that accepted her application will have something available in January. It is better to leave peacefully and avoid a legal eviction since technically DD did violate these two provisions of lease.

A truth that hits me today: DD does not feel she did anything wrong. She needs her friends around her to calm her anxiety. She believes there is nothing wrong with her and others are too judgmental. Can I truly accept her as she is? Can I accept that she does not 'do' therapy because deep inside she does not get what needs to be 'fixed'?

I am reading the book by Xavier Amador "I Am Not Sick, I Don't Need Help".  The chapter I am on has really helped me with DD the past couple days. Chapter on Listening. [His acronym is LEAP: Listen, Empathy, Acceptance, Partnering. Fits with first 2 tools at the right] Trying to discuss this with DH -- not so good. Puts him on the defensive.

Gotta go meet the school bus for gd9.

What do you all think?

qcr

Wow... .Synchronicity, no 

I'm sorry for all of these complications for you--but it does sound like maybe a move is for the best, and bypassing the eviction stuff and stress of trying to fight it sounds good.

Good news that this other place has accepted her application; I hope it's a better fit for her, and things get going smoothly... .Especially with Christmas in the wings   

Good luck 

Hm, maybe it is all for the better that there won't be a big showdown and an eviction... .

On the other hand, I was thinking that your dd probably needs a really lenient housing environment.


Well, honestly, I was a bit surprised that the landlord was so strict. Of course, if there were loud parties and/or drugs involved, I'd completely understand. Oh, well, it is what it is.

Do you think that your dd would be open to realizing that yes, people might be judgmental, and that might be THE reason to play by the rules in order to keep a roof over her head?

Do you think she is at a place now (after having been a structured environment for many months) that she might get the cause and effect or not really? I.E.:

Yes, landlords might have rules that feel unreasonable, and so

If you play by the rules, you will have a warm, safe place to be in.

If you ignore the rules, you might be homeless again?

You posted this while I was typing. She does not seem to get this at all. She needs the structure and knows this yet is unable to accept this when out on her own. She is very vulnerable and seeks this from the wrong kinds of people. And she keeps going back for more FROM THE SAME GUYS! My perception is that she is not whole without a guy in her arena. She does not put herself into new arenas to have new guys to choose from - ie. recovery group, yoga class, wellness class, job support group... .  She has to get out from under the meth illusion of anti-anxiety and delusion of weight loss.(I know she seeks stimulants to keep her weight down - it trashes her health too).

Dh and I are in the Empathy/validation/boundaries vs. tough love battle tonight. We are both right! We have to put stronger boundaries in place (the tough love part) and find the way to communicate this so that DD can hear it and hopefully respond to it without going ballistic (the validation part). She is under so much stress -- feeling betrayed and abandoned by the two friends that were saying "we will be roommates and help with the rent" then this eviction on top of that. I asked them to sign a roommate agreement with their commitment to rent, utilities and internet/cable. They wrote illegible signatures and then left. The one friend seems to have taken DD's debit and county benefit cards. She called for me to cancel them at same time I was getting ready to call her about meeting with landlord.

The other part, that I have to acknowledge out loud instead of denying; her face is scabbed up in a couple places. This is a classic sign of her use of meth. I asked about her face - she said "I am under a lot of stress". So this is another part of the battle. She is following her existing pattern of withdrawal from her commitment to do treatment. She sees her T but comes out too soon for much conversation to be happening. Do I talk to T about this suspected meth use etc. or stay out of this relationship? Hmmmm. Best bet is to talk with T about these concerns with DD present. I will ask for joint time at beginning of DD's session next week.

Why is it that the nice weather always seems to get cold and snowy when we are faced with allowing DD to return to being homeless? Dh will make things a big messy fight, so I am going over tomorrow to help DD pack. I plan to have the conversation about what she needs to do for us to pay rent. I am so not good at this conversation. Especially when DD is already coming unglued.

I wrote it all out as a draft text on my phone. I plan to read it to her tomorrow one bit at a time. It is all so overwhelming for all of us. She looked so desperate when I left today. There were a couple of friends there so she is not alone tonight. Most likely they are all blaming the unreasonable landlord without taking their part into account. They knew the porch needed to be clear and no smoking near the house! She had already warned DD of this last week.

She needs to find a new place/way to be with her 'friends' that are using our generosity. Friends in/out of her place has been the big problem over and over the past 3 years when we help with housing -- at our home or rental or motel. She really does not seem to get how this is a problem for others! The only option open to her for now is as a roommate month to month. That is all we are willing to offer her tomorrow when we go look at a couple of rooms for rent.

She has to follow through with participating weekly in  some group activities. THe mental health center has lots of wellness classes, there is free women's yoga Sunday, free coed yoga on Tuesday. She has the brochures. She talked about these when she was first released from jail -- before the old friends started showing up! I mentioned these to her today after the landlord left.

She has to follow through with some kind of drug treatment or therapy weekly. She can do this at mental health or to complete the alcohol level II program (she needs it to get a drivers license back from DUI). That clinic is still an option for her.

When DD went to check in at the addiction recovery center the week after her release she was not ready to do these classes after 3 months of classes in jail. She convinced them she did need their services. They are in the process of merging with mental health center -- DD's T would also be her addiction counselor.

So, are dh and I ready to allow DD to choose between recovery and homelessness? THis is so hard for me in the winter months. I have seen how hard it is for her -- but not hard enough for her to seek treatment.

I know many of you reading this have been down this path with your kids. Have been down this path with me over the past few years. I want to call in my reinforcements tomorrow. Hope someone is available. I think I will start with my sponsor -- I am in recovery too for being so co-dependent with DD and DH. I have not said this out loud here before, have I?  How did I turn out so smart and stupid at the same time?  One more paradox to add to my pandora's box.

qcr

Oh QCR

You have said in your post:

I am in recovery too for being so co-dependent with DD and DH. I have not said this out loud here before, have I?  How did I turn out so smart and stupid at the same time?  One more paradox to add to my pandora's box.



This is me - and you have said the word out loud for so, so many of us.  It hurts to see the words written in black and white but I am certain many of us can relate to it.

I will think more on what you have written - believe me I can relate to so much of it.

I am sending you love and strength from the other side of the pond, as I am in the UK, but my thoughts are with you.

Dibdob

I've been thinking about you today qcr, what a tough situation to have on your hands... . 

From where I am watching this, this time is different. Both you and your husband are in a different place together and with expectations regarding your dd. You are aware of the possibilities and are willing to let your dd make her choice. You are also letting her be responsible for her recovery.

Let's all hope her choice will be to recover... .

This conversation with your dd will be a very difficult one. Stay safe... .

qcarolr-

So sad to hear about this turn of events.

Seems to me that it might be possible that wherever your DD lives there will be rules. Homelessness has a lot less rules but there is still a brand of compliance within that community as well. I recall that your DD has had trouble inside of her homelessness situation- personality conflicts that have lead to arrests for violent behavior etc.

So the bigger question here is how do you (can you?) get her to understand that the consequences of her choices are REAL? How do you get her to see that her excuses are a denial of the reality of her situation.

It's a classic conflict with addicts. Stripped bare of excuses and justifications, stripped bare of the will of those who enable is where the choice to change is born.


25 days and then like Finnegan, begin again.

How hard is it to keep repeating the same pattern, in such great earnestness and desire for a better outcome, only to have it lead you back to the same place?


My DH is one of the smartest people I know. When your kid has the big issues of personality disorder and addiction your love/fear for them can (and does) keep you stuck in your enabling behavior. DH had to fight to break out of the chains of his enabling behavior. He had to hit a bottom and then his smartness allowed him to see that the only way change was going to happen was if he gave trying something different a chance. It was a leap of faith but frankly there was a certainty that if things kept going the way they were that even more horrible things were going to occur or at very least the cycle would continue to undermine his life.

I hope you will seek out your sponsor. She will have much to add to this discussion.

One day at a time, Q. One day at a time.

thursday

Dear qcr,  sending you love support hope prayers christmas magic everything possible to help this latest turn    mggt

Here is my mind speaking: Puzzle over conflict between addiction beliefs/actions - moderate right brain disability - mental health issues. The right brain stuff has always been there - most likely prenatal. The attachment issues, from my learning about this, started at birth or even prenatal as well. Her actions and reactions are complex because of limitations in information processing, decision-making, organization, etc. from her right brain stuff.

My heart says she needs a life coach that she can trust - ME. My heart knows her level of vulnerability and overwhelm is so real. Her needs are greater than she can cope with managing living in independent housing. She is pretty much shut down. Something new: she is able to speak to me about her thoughts and feelings; she is asking valid questions about problems experienced in this apartment with a couple friends - seeking to understand what is her and what is them. This self-reflection is a key skill in her recovery from all of the above.

She called some friends over to help her pack and clean apartment. Of the 3 people there Friday, only the young woman did anything. Yesterday the two guys had been asked to leave for 'not chipping in' and the two new guys worked really hard. One of them has worked as a mover and got all her stuff packed into our small cargo trailer (purchased as her storage unit while she was in jail). Got it done, including lots of bagging of stuff, in about 4 hours. All of these people are homeless most of the time. They were there for DD yesterday. I paid them $20, bought them food, gave them and their stuff a ride to the bus stop. They were off to find the warming center for the night. (it changes each day of the week)

DD sat in a corner on her phone clicking 'like' on as many things as she could. I asked -- she was paging through facebook. It was weird in some ways while the rest of us packed. So, was this behavior manipulating us, laziness, exhaustion from stress, dissociation (shut down)... . See paragraph #1 above. I am left to 'sit in the tension' of this unknown. Everyone has an opinion, based on their filters and personal experience with DD. The only ones that really have a direct impact are Dh and mine.

When it came right down to the moment of locking the apartment door and walking away, the family had chosen to let DD couch surf in our basement. GD was the first to offer her support - and share her boundaries (no yelling, no bad words, no friends at our house). I talked with DD about my attending her T session this Friday to establish her in at least 2 of the wellness classes they offer at mental health, for her to attend the free yoga classes on Sundays and Tuesdays, and to stay away from any illegal substances, no smoking in our house. There was a lot of validation and love in how we all approached this.

So in many ways it is like starting over again. A huge difference is the self-control I experienced in DD the past few days. No raging - though I could see she really wanted to punch out the landlady who was really pretty vicious to both DD and me. Making lots of assumptions based on the background check she did after the lease was signed.

It is one day at a time. And DD knows she is back on the street if this does not work out in our home. That is clear.

There is a miracle of healing needed. I am overwhelmed and in a composed shutdown too. DD needs to be responsible for her dog. Let's call DD's dog C. She is having extensive knee surgery Jan 15th with 12 week recovery. First two weeks she can put no pressure on that leg, then she has to be taken on lease for a couple more weeks. There will be excercises needed daily to recover mobility and strength. We have these exercises to start now. C has re-attached herself to DD. She is being very protective - not allowing our other dog to even enter the basement without our intervention. Can she sense DD's level of distress? I think so - believe dogs can read body language with great skill.

My mind is full today. There is peace in our home for today. Thanks for all your care and support.

qcr

Hello qcarolr  ,

Well, here I am again... .and in the same boat as you and your DD!  I have been reading your posts and thinking of you and your DD, GD, and DH often.  This time of year seems like the worst time to have to be strong and set boundaries for us who are enablers.  I am not going to hijack your thread but just want to say that I feel your pain in trying to be supportive without enabling our dd's is one of the most challenging thing that a mother can be faced with... .be strong and as others have said, one day at a time!

Wishing you and your family peace during the holidays... .

Suchsadness

qcarolr-

Regarding your last post. I have a few questions and some concerns.

I completely "get" your feelings of being puzzled as to the why of your DD's behavior.


To rephrase (this is how I am reading this) your daughter called over some friends to help the two of you ready the apartment for moving out. The two girls who had been living there with her for the last 25 days were nowhere to be seen. Of the three people who came to help, two were guys and only the girl did any work. Your DD or you or the other girl asked the two guys to leave because they weren't doing anything. The next day two new men were invited to help and they got it done. I'm not clear if your DD sat and played on her phone both days or just the day where the two guys were working hard and getting it done.

I am curious how the members of this group reacted to your daughter not helping. I've seen this sort of behavior from my SD. Several times when she was a teenager and living with us we would not let her do something because her room had been neglected and needed some attention. SD, unknown to us, called a specific friend over to "help her" with the room so that they could do "something" (memory tells me it was to go to the movies) and the friend ended up doing all of the work. In this situation the friend was the kind of person who didn't mind helping, was better at organizing and doing this quickly than SD. The friend never complained.

I am interested to know if anything was said to your DD about not helping.

In my SD's case, when I asked her questions about this situation her answers indicated that this was not something she was good at, her friend was better at it and her friend knew that she would get a free trip to the movies if the room was clean. The friend didn't care, that people didn't care was an often used defense against my questions or judgments. Sometimes this would morph into the attitude that anyone who cared was (insert expletive) crazy or stupid or too judgmental or a B ... .etc.

I know you feel puzzled but what is your best guess about the motivations behind your DD's behavior. 

There are definite differences in my SD from other people. The extent to which she cannot learn unless by doing is pronounced. If something makes her uncomfortable she won't face it, she finds a way out of it. This terminated in addiction and now we are on a path that includes more self-awareness. SD is once again doing step-work in AA (where she looks at her actions and gains accountability then makes amends). It is slow going. For SD it is tightrope walk this facing herself- because her low self-esteem lurks just below the surface and it can undermine everything.

If SD only learns by doing and her fear of facing herself keeps her away from trying new things... .are we better off sitting with the tension? In as much as I can exert any influence on SD at this point I still want to answer NO, I am not better sitting with the tension. I do want to be able to pinpoint the "issue of greatest importance" and work on that instead of nit-picking about everything. That way she seems to have a better attitude with me... .she knows I won't leave her feeling "attacked" if we just can deal with one thing at a time. That is very much her personality. (and the reason why the 12 steps is a good approach with her).

Part of your tension is in not knowing all of the answers. If I am understanding you, you feel like you have done too much harm in the past and don't want to exacerbate this more peaceful place (even if it is just for a day).

I will always feel like I've been the instrument of clarity of a longer distance view for my SD. It was helpful for both my SD and my DH to see my big picture view and from a non-enabling perspective--- so much easier to be clearer when we are not so involved. If my DH was motivated by "feeling sorry" for his daughter, my point of view was, well how in the world is that going to help her, you feeling sorry for her? There was, with him, less motivation to figure out a better way for the long term than there was to cushion her from the pain she was feeling right then, to get her past where she had to feel the pain of accountability.


I too have always wanted to know what motivates my SD. What I am learning though is that, in the day to day that is her life, it is more important that she not engage herself if the negative behaviors than for me to understand why she engages.

If, your DD saw people not helping and asked them to leave, could that have been a jumping off point to discuss her lack of initiative/action with this project. It involves an understanding of empathy (getting her to see that other people might feel the same ways she feels) and it involves your DD understanding that how people feel about her and react to her is at least, in part, involved with how she behaves.


There is so, so much in the paragraph above. I worry that you are biting off more than you can chew in your desire to be her trusted life-coach. I don't know where you would find anyone interested in doing this for her but I still believe this is a life-sucking task for you and I value you as a person who would benefit from feeling free from this daunting task. I know there are others in your life who benefit from their relationships with you (your DH, your GD, folks here) and I worry about how much of you, exactly, there is to spread around in this manner.


Your love for her is obvious. What isn't obvious is that you have identified her abilities... .what can she do for herself? What kind of living situation can she cope with. You have had some trial and error. You are narrowing it down. And you have boundaries. Can you hold with this? Can you continue on without burning out? Oxygen mask for you first, remember?




So glad to hear that your DD is opening up more. And that she is asking valid questions about the problems she is experiencing. I hope you are able to be as honest with her as she needs. You are filling therapist shoes here too. Can you have a therapist's detachment?

If your daughter is using again you also will be putting on "recovery specialist" shoes.

How much do you bite off and still be able to chew? Do you see how much you are taking on here?

concerned-

Thursday



.

I have 10 minutes to reply before the school bus. Reminder: I am still gd's parent here even with her mom in the house. DD is a bit more awake today, but now napping again.


HMMM -- what about my issues swallowing the past few months? My GI doc wants to do an endoscopy since at risk with Chron's for digestive. It is better -- or I am just chewing my food to mush before I swallow!

There are many in my support network who caution me with their concerns for my health. I have been trying for about 10 years to get DD to accept a professional case manager to guide her through life. Even if it starts out OK it soon dissolves. Either DD does not feel understood/helped or the other person starts to withdraw because they are struggling to help DD. I have even tried to shift some daily care things onto her friends. This works better for awhile -- then they too withdraw as her needs begin to outweigh the benefit they are getting from the r/s. And as you know from my 5 years here at bpdfamily this is often a messy situation.

GD's bus is here. I will be back later.

qcr

Thursday, I do have a lot on my shoulders - in my mind - within my heart. There are resources touching DD's life, and I am advocating with her to have courage to connect with them. Then to support her to stay connected.

Since her release on Nov 15th she lived in a hotel room for 10 days and an apartment for 10 days. Both places were busy with 3-6 people 'visiting'. DD cannot tolerate being alone, and has always had friends around her since 5th grade. It was a 'gang of girls' in 5th-6th grade. After that it gained more and more boys. She has always relied on a friend to orient her to what is going on. This leaves her so vulnerable to being taken advantage of. Then she finds herself alone again, and recycles the nearest ex that she can find.

There were both genders in her room and apartment. Some were couples - in fact all the women were part of a couple. Sadly for me both the young women I met were pregnant and already had other children being raised by grandparents mostly and parent(s) sometimes. What the heck are they searching for? Someone that adores them (at least until somewhere between 9 and 18 months)? Someone that will create a more lasting link between the parents (though often the pressures of parenthood drive them apart -- and the kids into grandparents arms)?  I am so grateful that DD chose to get an IUD after the birth of her 2nd child (gs, now 7, that was adopted by foster parents at age 2).

It was hard to tell how the friends that helped her pack the apartment felt about her hibernating in the corner. They were all homeless and appreciated staying the previous night - TV to watch - bathroom with shower and toilet - food to cook and a place to cook it... .All DD's friends treat me with great kindness and respect. This is how I treat them. They all call me "MOM" before the day is done. I often wonder who their moms are and why they are so far away - physically or emotionally. It is hard to love a troubled soul that resists conforming.

The two guys from the day previous to the move had been there a couple days. DD asked them to leave since they were not 'chipping in'. It is a tight community in many ways with rules and expectations of behavior. They are just different to the greater culture's rules and expectations of behavior.

There were 3 people with DD at the hotel that followed her to the apartment. One was a couple that promised to pay a share of the rent and agreed to sign a contract. The other guy was with DD as a 'bf'. He was with her in January as 'bf' until there was a warrant out for DD's probation violation (walking out of detox). He stole her wallet, used it fraudulently and then  dumped it. I got her driver's license in the mail a week later. Went back to his old gf. This is what happened AGAIN. He left with DD's debit card and public benefit card to get groceries and never returned. DD called 2 hours later and asked me to cancel them. He emptied her bank account - only $150.

From my perspective her shutdown (that is her description when I asked about her non-participation) was in response to 'losing' this guy who had written her love letters in jail and pursued her when she got out. She has shared a few hints of how unhealthy their relationship was, she wonders if her behaviors caused him to leave or was stealing from her his intent all along? She keeps asking ":)id he really care about me at all?" He told her on facebook it was impulsive and not planned. Then she blocked him.  Maybe she will continue talking to me about her self-reflections, and I will be able to continue to listen and validate. I am trying to respond with questions, not statements. It keeps her talking and thinking.

She asked me to go with her to her T on Friday and share some of the things she has shared. It is so hard for her to think of them when sitting in the session room. I understand this. I hope to have a chance to make a 'top 5' list with her before we go. I am not talking to this T unless DD is in the room. Our r/s has improved enough for this to be beneficial and not a trigger for dysregulation as in the past. We have done this a couple times on furloughs from jail to establish the r/s with this T.

If DD was able to accept the limitations, a structured dual-dx program with a residential phase in the beginning would be my choice. Do not see this ever being DD's choice. Especially after being incarcerated for 9 months this year and several months each of the previous 2 years -- all the same DUI charge plus the 2013 bad breakup charges. She probably had 10 arrests - only three were 'crimes' with all the rest probation violations. DUI, harassment, shoplifting at Goodwill.

It is a topic for another place - something good has shifted inside me that is allowing me to do just as the quote at the end of my message (from book I cannot find by Marion Woodman). I am finding peace to have couragenstrength and willingness. This what I mean by 'sitting in the tension'. This is where I am finding the peace. It is similar to the concept of 'wisemind' as the conjunction of emotionmind and thinkingmind.

There are things I am doing to care for myself. FIRST is my r/s with dh -- were are here to love and comfort each other as never before. We have committed part of our budget for me to continue with therapeutic massage, physical thereapy (for pain and balance issues). I continue to see the women in my support network - T, sponsor, small study group. There are other ways I am feeding my soul.

And I have all you here as my friends that really GET how hard it is to love a child with BPD issues. Thank you all for your replies.

qcr

Thank you for sharing so honestly qcarolr,

I thought Thursday had some very good questions and concerns, there was one thing I thought about in addition to that:

As I look at it from the outside, it seems to me that your dd has more on her plate than she will be able to manage (definitely not on her own), and you were mentioning that she needs to take care of her dog more... .Is this something in addition to what she needs to do? Is this going to be another stressor that will make her dysregulations more likely, or is this something pleasant and therapeutic for her that will actually help, something maybe instead of something else on her plate?

DD loves her dog and is loved by her dog. C was keeping us all out of the basement family room - or trying with her growly talking - until today. DD is more rested and alert today. It is hard for me to know - maybe she was just stoned or something on moving day and it took a couple days to recover.

Taking care of her dog will be good for her in several ways -- my guess anyway. When I returned from my outings today she had done a couple of the exercises posted on the fridge with C. She asked me to work with her on the others tomorrow. I really need her to be here for the first 2-3 weeks after this surgery when I need/want to be gone. If she can stick to this what an awesome way to build some success.

Boredom is a great threat to DD. I have been talking gently with her about finding some activities to get her out of the house at least 3 days each week. Not distracted by her homeless friends. I am hoping for help with this at the T on Friday. DD got her food stamps restored, but without documentation of disability. She is required to participate in a work program to keep her food benefits. She has a 2.5 hour orientation on Dec 30th. She was not too excited by this letter. I am going to encourage her to participate.

I have to find the momentum to set out the realities of our ability to pay rent for her. It cannot go on much past 6-12 months. She has already used up equivalent of 2 months. She actually was in her apartment for 3 weeks.

She is an adult. She has the power over her choices. We have the power over the resources for housing costs. We carry the risks if co-signing on a lease. How do we find a plan that has greater odds for success? This housing drama has been whirling around me for so long with her. Maybe she is ready to make different choices.

She has been sharing some details of her relationships in this last place. I am not sure how to respond. Since she seems to be feeling better maybe I can open a conversation/dialogue tomorrow about some of these comments.

Here are a few of my concerns:

-Packing her apartment bedroom she asked me to stay out of the closet containers. She handed me several syringes from around the bed. I made no comment at the time to keep focused on the move. I am guessing she and the bf thief were doing some substance.

---Why did she reveal this drug paraphernalia to me? Is she asking for help? Is she testing my response? Hope she is willing to talk about these questions.

-The volume of people in her living places has cause her to be asked to vacate.

---Why so many friends? Wouldn't one or two be enough? Does she really want them there or does she pursue them via facebook or text to join her? What is the need(s) that these people satisfy for her? Are there other ways to get those needs met that do not mess with her housing? I have asked her these questions already. I want to ask her if she has thought about them.

-Is DD ready to step up to therapy? Is she ready to own her substance abuse/addiction? Can she see treatment as a benefit to her life instead of an authority telling her how to live her life?

-Is DD ready to pursue working toward employment or 'work activities' - ie. community service - without feeling like she is on probation again. Can she overcome previous bad experiences at work force center to participate in the required program for her food stamps? She has other friends that have been in this program. I know of one that did well and it helped him.

DD has invited me to go to her session and share with the T. Seems this is the list to present to her for approval before we go - fewer surprises the better. I need to respect her by asking permission to share my perspective.

Great News:  Gd is happy to have her mom here - I asked her tonight while tucking her in bed. She asked what 'drugs' means and why her mom yells so much when she used them in the past. This is the explanation we have given for DD's bf troubles and rages in our home, and why she was in jail. So tonight I said 'drugs' is using medicine in the wrong way to try and feel really good and that this is very dangerous for her body. It makes her feel really good for a short time then really really bad after that. Her mom loses her self-control and cannot express her anger is non-harmful ways.

We have applied the term 'self-control' in our home with gd. When she is sent to her room we are asking her to take time to regain self control. She can come out when she feels ready to talk or otherwise express her feelings safely. So she has an understanding of what this expectation is for DD's behavior. Gd also uses the word 'yelling' to cover a lot of different behaviors other than loud volume. It describes speed, tone and pitch of voice, posture, hand motions, facial expressions, sarcasm... .Gd is a very sensitive person in many ways. Our dogs are good monitors of 'yelling' too - when they go upstairs or outside things are not under self-control. We all lose it - we all can take some time out to regain it - we all are learning to apologize and try to make amends.

Another change is my responses to DD's comments when I am with GD. Example: tonight gd had asked me to 'look' at something again. I reached out so I could put it where I could actually see. She then pulled it away. I was so frustrated about her demanding my help then not letting me see it. Seems she is frustrated that I cannot see it with her holding it. So I yelled at her this last time. Got louder and irritable. Told her that I could not see it in her hand with my glasses and she had been doing this all evening. DD called up 'what going on up there'. I stepped back, said I was feeling angry that I could not see, I apologized for yelling. Things calmed down quickly. Gd said she is angry too that I can't see and a lot of other things lately. 

I am so full of words today. Thank you for taking the time to share in all this with me. This process of typing it all out helps me get clarity toward the next step.

Geez, how did it come to be midnight yet again. I do want to ponder on all the points made by Thursday and hope to be back here tomorrow.

qcr

I like your use of the words "self-control". Gaining ""it" is the path to self-esteem. Self-esteem allows one to progress through life without all of the back-scatter of an inner negative dialog. And that sounds like happiness to me... .being at peace with one's self.

Thanks for writing more and explaining. It isn't easy to read (due to heart-wrenching content) but I'm glad to read and comment if I can help you in any way with my comments. I often feel intrusive... .aware I don't really know the involved parties nor the entire story.




If she would accept this is this available to you in your area or elsewhere at a price you can afford.

My BPDSD23 did not get her help within a dual diagnoses program... .her recovery included both an IOP (for drug and alcohol abuse)  and an over one year stay at a sober living house. It was very expensive- approx. 850.00 per month for the sober house. The IOP was 90 days and was another 400.00 per month. Just one example here on this BB but I'm sure this isn't really too different from region to region. We were in a position at that time to afford this. We are no longer in that position... .and we compromised a more secure retirement in doing for SD. We will both continue to work to earn money to live on for many years.

SD was helped by the stay in the sober house and a lot of this help happened because she was out of her comfort zone for long enough for the changes to become real to her.   The house "facilitator", lucky for us, was hands on... .nobody's fool... .a recovering addict... .didn't play favorites... .was honest about her own life as an addict and it wasn't pretty and thus affective.

How do you get your DD to comply with a program?

I had an interruption since I started this and have some things I have to do but will come back later.

Thursday

There is a program through the county mental health center that DD applied for. They finally contacted DD's T and said she must be meth free for 2 years before she can enter their program. It is a dual-dx program. Seems like this misses their mission? The T was very surprised. This program offers housing to participants for up to 2 years. The intent is to teach self-sufficiency. It is part of the counties "Transitional Housing" initiative to help stop homelessness.

Maybe I can contact someone in this program and ask about their experience with this group to create the need for this exclusion. DD has her adult medicaid restored. Many of these county programs accept her medicaid for at least part of the cost. She has been offered admission into a program 2 times. She blew up both times -- blamed the disrespect of the night staff in detox. Detox for 3 days was required prior to entering the Transitional Residential Treatment program (TRT).

DD gets so discouraged and depressed. She has shared that it feels like nothing can ever change no matter how hard she tries. She does not yet get that she is making choices over and over that limit her next step forward. She has taken some baby steps forward with self-reflection this past 6 months. This can only continue if she stays away from street drugs. Only she can change what she chooses.

My question for DD is "Are you ready to admit your addiction to meth with your T, and seek out recovery treatment and support?" So far she has declined to follow through with this.

Feels like an endless circle when it needs to be more of a spiral. Feel so stuck.

We are all enjoying having DD in our home right now. This has been the pattern in the past when she returns to our home after being gone. Wonder if we can get past the 6-8 week point when she gets bored and/or overwhelmed backslides. Active participation in treatment/therapy - this is the path to creating new patterns, new neural pathways. I will continue to advocate for her. She knows homelessness is the consequence of breaking the house rules.

I feel like I am talking in circles this morning. Thursday, thank you for all your comments. I invite you to intrude any time |iiii

qcr

Qcaroir:

Wondering if there is any friend or relative who could be connected to your dd as another mature adult in her life.  Someone who can come to the house and help share sone of the load you and your husband carry. 

Maybe a friend from church who could come to the house in a more involved way.  Share some meals, maybe spend some evenings with your daughter.  Even better would be several people.  People who can offer suggestions, notice things you might not, a community of sorts. 

David McKinnon's books concerning failure to mature have influenced my thinking.  Young people need a community of mature adults supporting them.  As well, this summer I invited a young man with substance abuse/BPD issues to stay with us, as his family was not able to have him stay with them because of breaking of very common house rules, etc etc.  The parents were involved; however, he had a neutral living space with us.  He thrived. 

Just an idea.

Reality

PS The quote by Marion Woodman is excellent.  Is it from the book, Addiction to Perfection? 

This quote is from "Heroine's Journey".  I am downloading to my tablet to read again since I cannot find the book on my shelf. I read this book as part of my personal recovery from a bipolar meltdown.

qcr