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After telling my counselor all the bad times we had I told her that me and my exBPDgf also had really good times too. She told me that I couldn't use the good times to validate the relationship especially when the bad times outweigh the good.

So I have a question for the people on here did the bad times outweigh the good times for your relationship?

In my case the bad times defiantly did outweigh the good times.

Yes... .

Absolutely.  Because even in good times you cannot forget the bad and the feelings of mistrust and betrayal.  It's like a dark cloud hanging over every moment, waiting for the next thing to set him off.

Yes, the bad times outweighed the good and that was one of the thoughts that led me to leave. We may have had many days of good until an argument came up, but the combination of the arguments being so over the top/intense and the time that it took me to heal from the argument definitely outweighed the good.

Another thing to think about is that even while they are being super great and everything is good we are so busy walking on eggshells that we can't 100% enjoy it. At least I know that's how it was for me. I was always anxious. Even when we were getting along there would be times when I'd be on my way to see him and the closer I got I could feel my heart rate go up. It felt like my heart was going to beat its way out of my chest. Same thing would happen when we were arguing and I would receive a text message from him. During the last couple weeks, when his behavior got worse and he began with the emotional blackmail I experienced the tightness in my chest from anxiety every single day. So sad looking back. Seeing myself be so physically affected by this was another factor that pushed me to get out.

A couple of the last weeks of the relationship were REALLY good. Probably the best two weeks of the relationship. I attributed it to me having learned how to handle a pw/BPD. I was doing my best to relate to him and validate his feelings (as much as I could without being dishonest) We got along better and I thought it could be a turning point. It still hurts to think about that time. BUT, the difficulties that followed those two weeks were so dysfunctional that it pretty much wiped everything out and helped me to realize what kind of person I was dealing with.

If we're being technical and counting the hours spent in volatile situations vs. normal days/good times, I'd say no.

However, the impact of the "bad times" tended to stretch beyond the "point of impact."

One thing that comes up is a convention we went to together. Should have been nice, and there certainly were nice moments. But she spent a good deal of time sending texts to some guy (with whom she would later have an affair over the phone.) It was the first convention I've ever been to and it left a bad taste in my mouth. I wasn't perfect either. I admit there were times I acted like a jackass during. Still though, she was doing that ___ from start to finish. So no, it wasn't the entire time we were together and a good portion of the time we were talking and having fun, but... .what she did had an impact on the entire experience, sort of put a dark cloud over it. When I went home, I felt as though I may have wasted my time there.

When our relationship came to an end, at first all I could think about was the 'wonderful times' we had. Then I started listing these times, and in turn the not-so-good, and horrid times. I looked at the times in depth, what happened, and most of all what I got out of the relationship.

Guess what!  The horrid times were far more numerous. Once I stopped being so 'crazed' for her, I realized that MOST of our interactions were tinged with a great deal of negativity. I just wasn't aware. I was accepting all this negativity and sweeping it under the rug, paying far more attention to the FEW rapturous times, when I was painted white, and idealized.

In the end... .the bad times were far more numerous. I was just too blind, and too much in denial to see and to admit.

Totally feel you on the waste of time thing. I didnt see any of this coming for the most part. There were flags, but nothing that turned my stomach into knots until I was just about ready to get tossed. Seemed she was just tolerating me. I was just there. Felt all wrong, but I kept quiet, silent and avoiding what deep down I knew was going to happen. Just made me so sad as I wanted something so much more and was ready to give her and her kids the world.

Oh Faith, I can relate! Thanks for reminding me what it felt like to drive to his house toward the end of the r/s. Stomach in knots, head racing, what kind of mood am I going to get?

Trips, etc. got to be so stressful because he would get intense and then I would think to myself, can this guy ever have fun? Is he always going to have this heaviness even when we are off going on vacation? I realized a lot of this was my own anxiety and nervousness waiting for the other shoe to drop.

One time at the airport in between flights he humiliated and embarrassed me in line. He decided to pick a fight right then and there in front of people which he usually does not do. He said, "you keep this up and you can get on anther flight home, if you want to be with me you better... .(can't remember what it was)" his tone, his anger and the faces of the couple in front of me were unbelievable.  HE IS NOT FUN TO BE WITH... .can't wait to find normal one day. :)

I got the treat me special or lose me speech an awful lot. I was knee deep in love with a woman with 5 kids and making plans to make it permanent. Guess that wasnt special enough...

I can totally relate with most of this. Luckily I didn't get to the point where I had chest pains or anything, but I remember at times while driving to her place to be with her for the weekend I'd suddenly just get a feeling of "I really don't want to see her all that much" and kind of just wanted to turn around and go back home. I really didn't know what sort of mood she would be in or what sort of behavior I was in for. That's one way that I can rationalize that the bad really did outweigh the good. After not seeing my girlfriend for the entire workweek instead of being excited to see her I sometimes had a feeling of dread basically... .

Honestly, a lot of the time I would feel a lot better once I saw her, and I'd be at ease for a bit, but I still never knew when things were going to go downhill. I don't think it's worth being with someone you can't be excited to see (at least 99% of the time). Who wants to constantly feel like they're walking on eggshells?


This was the same for me also, and it made the sudden breakup (that basically happened while I was on vacation due to her abandonment issues) that much harder. And of course a few weeks prior to those two final great weeks she broke up with me while drunk at 2am while at a bachelorette party, totally out of the blue. I made the mistake of getting back together with her a week later. I really think that if I had just let it be over that time that I wouldn't have been anywhere near as hurt as I was after the final breakup.

Yup.  And the longer I stayed in the relationship, the more bad times there were.  Once you reach that phase of the relationship, all you get is punishment.  Yes, we had some fun times and memories, but even those were littered with selfishness, rescuing, and abuse.  They punish you until they either discard you or you walk away, which triggers their abandonment fears to try to get you back.  Punish, recycle... .punish, recycle... .punish, recycle... .until you end it for good.

Yes, The bad times definitely did outweigh the good.  It was constant stress all day long on the phone having to defend myself to things that are not happening and this would go on all day, not to mention I was figuring out that these things are projections, then when we get together at the end of the day I had about two hours worth of work at her house before bed when everything changed when I got there and things quieted down, then she would always make love to me at least twice and we would go to sleep, sometimes making me get up in the middle of the night to do it again.  then first thing in the morning again five minutes after I left my phone would ring and repeat the cycle. In the end Sleeping together was the only thing that was good and the other 16 hours of being awake was pure hell.  I remember about two months before the final break up I would wake up every morning and actually dry heave every day walking to my car, this took about 5-10 minutes every day to calm down and go away, I am guessing it was stress related?  It stoped after a couple of months.  

Downwhim- That's terrible how he acted at the airport! My ex did similar things in public. I would always feel I needed to tell him to keep his voice down. You feel embarrassed for yourself and the fact that you are allowing someone to treat you poorly but also embarrassed for them because it's like they have no shame.


My ex admitted that he had a hard time relaxing. He was always stressed about something and never seemed 100% satisfied with the way things were going in his life. Knowing what I know now I realize his reason for feeling so uneasy all the time was actually very legit with all the fear, shame, and guilt that was pent up inside of him. 

I know what you mean - You end up overthinking what could actually be a good time because you're so used to preparing yourself for the worst. This actually came up once during couples counseling as one of MY flaws. With his denial and blaming, we could only talk about his issues so long before we had to turn to me, at which point I felt our counselor was grasping at straws.

Cleveruser- I can relate to all of that.

It must have been difficult the way that went down. I think that in some ways it's easier to heal, or at least feel more confident about it, when the relationship ends on a bad note... .My ex was so sh!tty with me towards the end and afterwards said such horrible and hurtful things that it made me feel more confident that I made the right choice. He was so nasty towards me that it made it "easier" to go NC because I was angry and the hurt I felt was fresh. I knew if I contiued to communicate he would only hurt me more. At the same time, the ending being so ugly left me with even more confusion and acceptance issues. How can the person I loved so deeply and who I thought loved me, say and feel such horrible things? And not apologize for it. I wouldn't even say those things to my worst enemy.

I don't think it's worth being with someone you can't be excited to see (at least 99% of the time).

Yes yes and YES.

In a normal relationship with someone healthy, the good times are enjoyable in their own right - you laugh, you talk, you express love and care. There are still bad times, like arguments and so on. But the 'bad times' in a normal relationship are nothing like the bad times in a BPD relationship.

In my mind, the 'good times' in a BPD relationship are only good because they are not bad.  They were only good because I wasn't belittled, raged at or left abandoned while she off drinking or telling me how wrong I was. The good times sometimes were only good because I held my tongue. Yes, there might be some fun involved, but there was never the laughing, genuine connection, expressing of genuine love or care (for very long) in those moments. They were merely moments spent with another person where abuse didn't occur. 

I got stomach knots and horrible anxiety just before I would see my exBPDgf, and towards the end of the r/s I would say I was sick or tired, or some other excuse why I couldn't catch up, and feel a tremendous sense of relief in being on my own. That's not normal. Every other relationship I've had, I've been excited to see my partner. In this relationship it wasn't excitement, it was dread.

The bad times were not just bad - they were upsetting and hurtuful and abusive and damaging. It doesn't matter how 'good' the good times were - they can never offset, negate or cancel out behaviour like that.

The far times out weiged the good by a landslide. There is no comparison. The good times were just the first few months. The next two years were pure hell with a couple of "good" moments here and there.

I can relate to that too, Faith. It kind of did end on a pretty bad note for me. She got distant and started acting passive aggressive in texting while I was on the vacation that prompted the breakup. Then we broke up by text after I got home and snapped at her, and when we met to talk about it in person she told me she never loved me. She had told me she loved me for the first time the week prior to the vacation, and I think the only reason she didn't say it sooner was because she knew I wasn't ready to say it. I had told her that that will probably be the case, that she would say it first and I may have to think about it. I explained that she was my first girlfriend and I had never said it to anyone before, and I wanted to be 100% sure that when I did I meant it. The fact that she was able to say it and then take it back like that, with no remorse or apology, when I had told her how I wanted to be 100% sure it was true when I said it in order to avoid causing someone the pain that I was now feeling, I found really hurtful. The coldness and look on her face when she said it too... .*shudders*

The other messed up thing about it was that she didn't even seem to remember how it happened or was in complete denial. She told me that she only said it because she was drunk. I told her "yes, you said it while drunk the first time, but what about the next day when you said it again while sober?" and she said that she was "just being emotional at the time." She didn't even remember how it went down and that she didn't only just say it while drunk.

While that was really hurtful and upsetting, along with the fact that she told me she had already started going on dates again within days of the breakup, it somehow made it both hurt more and made me feel that the breakup was the best thing for me.

I also got the "I finally know what I want" text when she was dumping me (also via text)and pointing out all my bad traits and my good traits that would appeal to another woman. Not sure if I remember getting through the whole text before just going blank... .

Oh wow, you had good times for the first few months? Lucky! Haha, my relationship only lasted 4 months and I'd say it was around 3 or 4 good weeks before the hell started.


I agree that lots of good times "were only good because they were not bad... .they were merely moments spent with another person where abuse didn't occur." That's a great way of putting it. At the same time though, I do feel that every so often we did have moments of genuine connection. Maybe that's just me trying to make myself believe that my first and only relationship wasn't a complete sham, haha. Even so, those nice moments were always overshadowed by the bad times.


I hear you there. Looking back I totally did the same sort of thing where I'd make an excuse as to why I couldn't see her. Part of the abandonment fear she felt when I went on vacation at the end of the relationship probably stemmed from the fact that before I went away she asked if I wanted to hang out the day I got back from the trip. She said she could come over since she knew I'd be tired from the red-eye flight and I told her I didn't want her to and I would need that day to rest and be by myself since I'm an introvert and would be coming home from a week of being constantly with other people. I also didn't set up another time for us to see each other though, and I realize now that if I was actually looking forward to seeing her again when I got back I would have.

Makes me feel a little bit bad because the abandonment fear was not all in her head. There really were times when I didn't want to see her. But that was her own fault, and her failure to keep the boundaries I had set (where I told her I needed some alone time due to being an introvert) was one of our biggest issues. I think a healthy person would have been more understanding of my needs the entire time and I would have treated the situation differently.

Faith1520,

Just wanted to let you know your post was right on spot for me. Your description of how you felt in your relationship was as if you pulled it from my experiences. The sad thing is only we really know what we are living and they on the outside can't truly understand it. It is empowering to know I was not the cause of this, that I can let go of the guilt and stand firm in NC. He would always say everyone has marriage problems, this is not your average marriage problem! There have been a few days I have felt such a freedom that it almost felt supernatural. We've been separated for 5 months, I filed for divorce in Oct. I haven't seen him in over a month but he has been texting me. I only respond when it is related to the divorce. My son is getting married this Sat. and he will probably be there even though they are not talking. My heart races at the thought of being in the same space as him. Praying for confidence to have little to no contact and no conflict to spoil the celebration. Thanks for your post and everyone else who contributes to this site. Finding understanding along with tools to maneuver through this difficult detachment has been comforting, uplifting and a confidence builder. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

The first 22 years... .was 'manageable'.

I didn't realize that I was being played... .

The last 3 years were a living horror show.

The things I found out made the first 22 years clear.

Lies. All Lies.

The "good times" were not real. Nothing was real.

Less and Less do I look back. It's a reminder of being lied too and being blind to it.

I try so hard to stay forward focused.

Oh yeah, the bad outweighs the good by quite a lot. I agree with others that maybe the number of events were not more but the aftermath made it seem like it. I remember one time where he screamed at me on a dance floor when were taking lessons with a few other couples. We were doing it for our daughters wedding.  I wasn't following perfectly so he screamed "F" you and shoved me and it was right when the music stopped. So humiliating, everyone looked right at us.  I could never go back there again and that trauma lasted a long time and made the dance at the wedding a nightmare for me, I was so worried it would go wrong. There were so many of these events that all I really remember is the bad, awful times.  Even the so called good times are lies and distortions and usually I was on high alert.  I seen somewhere it was like tap dancing in a mine field and I agree.

yes.  the bad times outweighed the good, and they will always outweigh the good.  very sad, but in the acknowledgement of that truth, there does come some amount of freedom

That summed it up perfectly. I made a list of the bad vs good times before I left my BPDex. WOW, what an eye opener that was! It made me run for the door instead of walk. I can look back now and wonder how I was able to live in a state of denial for so many years.

I've already posted, but it's just so sad that this is the reality. I'm sure my ex/gf is saying the same about me. And in her eyes, it's probably true. Reaction causes reaction. As her conduct and emotions changed, so did mine. It's sad that whatever good I had with her has been overshadowed by bad. I tried so hard to love her with all my heart and it just wasn't good enough. She lost a good, imperfect man that would have done anything for her and her kids. But when you give and give, and recieve nothing but ridicule and histrionics, you shatter, but continue the game.The deck is stacked against you and the dice are loaded. I'm lucky I'm alive.

Dont take any wooden nickels when you sell your soul The eels

I would have to agree. As time went on I pretty much shut down. I guess subconsciously I felt it was safer. And at times I'd have enough and tell her so and try talking,  but that never went anywhere.  In a conversation she could spin things so weird I just had to shut up before I blew up. Your right, the deck was stacked,  and with pwBPD it's going to stay stacked.

It's always nice (in a sad sort of way) to find someone who can relate. My ex, too, would try to minimize the problems in the relationship. He would tell me look at your sister, do you think they don't have problems in their marriage? My response was that of course they have their problems but they are nothing like ours. He would compare apples and oranges in other aspects of the relationship as well and in an argument to try to prove his point of view was accurate... .I got so annoyed with his analogies because they were so off base. I understand now that with this sickness they actually 100% believe their skewed perceptions are accurate.

It is empowering when you realize you're not at fault! It's like a big sigh of relief. Not becuase we really care about being "right" but because they make us think our point of view is SO skewed that we start to wonder if something is wrong with us! Ugh. I think deep down our intuition has always told us it was them but can they twist things so well that we second guess ourselves.

Best of luck at the wedding, I hope everything goes smoothly and I wish you the strength and courage to get through it!

This is so true Faith. Even when times were great I was so busy trying to keep them great for her and Her happy that I couldn't enjoy the moment myself. I was always worried about her  mood shifting and changing. I even know now that even when we were having a great time and I thought things were great she was busy texting others behind my back.  For a while I lived in her fantasy with her but now my feet and head are firmly back in reality.

In reality I was just having "times", none good or bad. Nothing was real on BPD Island. The way I see it is that each of us were cast as a character on one of those fake reality tv shows which had a four episode season run consisting of the following episode titles: 1.Mirrored 2.Used 3.Abused 4.Discarded.

Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale,

A tale of a fateful trip

That started with a crazy one

Aboard this relationship.

The nut was a mighty mirroring one,

The non was brave and sure.

Mass confusion set sail that day

Over one with such allure, one with such allure.

The weather started getting rough,

The tiny non was used,

Thanks to the illness of the crazy one

The non would be abused, the non would be abused.

The ship set ground on the shore of this discarded desert isle

With Unreality

The projection too

The distortions and the lies,

The massive drama

and the rages and the trauma,

Here on BPD Isle.

LOL! Sorry, I couldn't help myself after reading the AwakenedOne's post

In our case the good is very good and the bad is very bad. Fortunately the amount of good outweighs the bad. Someone on this site said: "When the pain of staying is worse than the pain of leaving , that's when you'll go. " Rings true to me. Theo

lol

Ridiculous because although the "good time" span kept being shorter and shorter, I still loved it. Worst part is that even when I knew it was GOOD, I knew the bad was imminent, so I held on... .held onto hope that maybe THIS time, the bad wouldn't come, but it always did.