BPDFamily.com

Hi everyone,

So this is my first post on this forum   . In a nutshell: I'm a woman of 27 from the Netherlands. My mother has (undiagnosed) BPD, which I only found out last year. In early 2013, when I moved in with my partner, my mother gave me hell. She tried to kill me because I "left her alone". Early this year, I decided to quit seeing her or speaking to her and the rest of my family from mother's side (who blamed me for everything). Shortly after that, I suddenly remembered how my mother sexually abused me as a child. I am now trying to heal from this trauma and from the emotional abuse, which continues to trouble my moods every day.

My parents are divorced and I did not know my dad and the rest of my father's side of the family until July 2014. It's been great getting to know them and their presence has helped me through many difficult moments, as well as my lovely partner without whom I would not be here today.

My biggest challenge is learning to allow myself to feel emotions such as anger and not to beat myself up about it. I was diagnosed with PTSD and depression and I'm kicking the habit of self-harm.

I hope I can learn from your stories and experiences and hopefully I can make some useful contributions to the forum in return :)

I don't mean to trigger anyone's emotions by this post and if so please let me know and I'll edit it.

Hi polly87

Welcome to our online community  

Having a uBPD mother isn't easy. Many of our members know what it's like to have a parent with a personality disorder. I am very sorry that you were sexually abused by your mother. That's very traumatic for a child and I can see how your mind might have sought for ways to protect you by blocking these memories out.

You mention that you were diagnosed with PTSD and depression and that self-harming has also been an issue Are you getting help from a therapist to deal with what you've been through and the things you are still going through right now?


What you say here sounds quite alarming. Could you perhaps tell us a bit more about what happened? Do you literally mean that she did things with the intention of killing you?


I can tell you that just by sharing your story in this first post, you've already made a very useful contribution to this forum :) Reading your story can be insightful to others and might encourage them to post their own story and/or get help. That's why I give you a |iiii

Hi Polly.  I am glad you found this place and posted.  You are certainly in a place where other people can relate and hopefully we can offer support when needed.  I too was sexually abused by my mother and I was diagnosed with c-PTSD as well as depression.  Sexual abuse of any kind is difficult to process, but I have found mother-daughter incest to be harder to discuss and get help as so few people accept that it can and does happen.  Anyhoo, there are quite a few of us here with PTSD, so again, you are not alone.

When you can or want to, please share more of your story.  Everyone here is very supportive and willing to share what worked for them and to hash things out when you just need to talk.

Polly87,  *welcome*

I am very glad you found us here and that you have begun by telling us a little of your story. We are a family of support here, so many of us having PTSD including myself due to growing up with an uBPDm.

Memories can be tough to work through.  Like Kwamina, I'm wondering if you have someone to help you walk through these tough issues that you are facing? My T has proven so helpful to me, and the support of finally having someone to walk beside me, encouraging me to work through those memories when they come up has been huge. I'm also glad that you have gone NC right now, especially for your physical and mental safety. Keep posting and let us know how you are!

Woolspinner

Hello Polly  - I would like to add my welcome in with the others and congratulate you on your courage to post your introduction.

The others here are all genuinely correct that it is a terrific family and a great place for support and education.

It seems as though you have been through a really hard time of it   - PTSD is no picnic and I can't believe that your mother tried to kill you! What a shocking thing.

You may find it beneficial to have a read of the Survivor to Thriver manual that is located to the RHS of this board ------>

I found it no end of help to get a sense of what to expect. It's a tough road but a worthwhile one. I am glad you are embarked on it and look forward to you expanding more on your story.

*welcome*

All the best

Ziggiddy

Thank you all for the warm welcome!   I'm trying to figure out which topics to read first - there's such a lot of information here! The Survivor's Guide is really interesting. I seem to be at step 4 - I'm trying to deal with the horrifying memories and I'm trying to understand that she cannot harm me anymore in the present time.

Kwamina, I'm sorry to have to say that my mother did try to kill me. I was standing on top of the stairs and she was trying to throw me down. My ex-therapist confirmed my fear that she was not just fighting but intended to kill me.

I now have a new therapist since I moved away from my home town to the other side of the country. I started therapy with her in July and I still find it difficult to speak frankly with her, despite the fact that she has never judged me. I wish I could see her more often than once every two weeks, but that's how the system works here in the Netherlands.

My mother still stalks me by calling a couple of times in a row every few days or weeks. Strangely enough, this does not bother me at all, instead I get strength from it, knowing that she finally has to deal with her bad conscience now.

The thing that I really struggle with and that triggers me without exception is the feeling of powerlessness. It also happens when someone else seems powerless in my eyes, like when my partner is given way too much work or when someone is really rude to him. It's as if my body needs to experience the powerlessness again and wants to do something about it this time. That's where things tend to go wrong... .I get all worked up and angry at myself, as if I am or was to blame for not being able to stop the culprit. I'm ashamed to say that in very few cases I do direct my anger at my partner, but in most cases I direct it at myself. I get furious with myself and at that moment I cannot tell why. I sometimes think it is because my mother herself is not around (thank God for that) but in clearer moments, I realise it is because I still blame myself for what happened. I mentally know that this is unfair, yet I cannot seem to stop believing this. I'm learning to feel compassion for myself in small ways, such as allowing myself to have meals on time. I've a long way to go yet... .

Harri, thank you for sharing your story and I'm very, very sorry you have been abused as well. It's true that people have a hard time to believe that incest between mother and daughter does happen. I think there are few people who have experienced it... .May I ask when you found out what had happened?

I have yet to tell my dad and stepmum what has happened to me. Even my best friend doesn't know yet. The day after the memories returned, I went to my inlaws because I was too afraid to be alone in case more memories came back (I didn't know my dad and stepmum back then and my partner had to work that day.) I have told them what happened and I've regretted it since. They do not seem to fully understand the impact of PTSD (but then again, who can?). Sometimes I'm on the brink of telling a friend, but I'm afraid they won't understand or I'll freak out because of all the emotions.

If there's anything you'd like to know about me feel free to ask :) and thanks again for your replies :)

Hi again polly87


Wow... .I was hoping it wasn't really so. I am very sorry that your mother tried to do this to you. Had she ever done anything like this before? Would you say she's a violent person, particularly when she perceives she's being 'abandoned'? The fear of abandonment is something many people with BPD greatly struggle with.


I can relate to your feelings. Events like this probably trigger emotions and/or memories inside of you related to your experiences with your mother. It's interesting that you mention being at step 4 of the survivor's guide. The next step is accepting that you were powerless over your abusers' actions which holds THEM responsible.


Getting from knowing it on a rational level to also truly accepting it on an emotional level isn't always easy. These things can take some time and it is indeed important to treat yourself with compassion as you work on your healing. You've made the first step and that is becoming aware that there's something wrong and identiifying the areas you might need to work on |iiii

Hi Polly.   :)


For me it was not one instance or one memory.  The sexual abuse was, mostly, a daily occurrence and was such a part of life that much of it happened right out in the open with my father as a witness and observer.  Very little of it was hidden.  So for me it was not a matter of remembering it was more a matter of labeling what happened as sexual abuse and accepting that it was wrong.  It was a long long process to get there with lots of periods of denial and minimizing precisely because it was accepted (after all my father would watch much of it) and to deny my mother was a threat to my own security as she believed my body/life was hers to do with what she though was right and necessary.  On top of that, I was still very much enmeshed and to stop her required understanding and acceptance that I just did not have at that point and I am not sure I could have handled it then.  After I first labeled it as abuse there were periods where I would try to stop her and say no but it took a good decade more before I stopped it for good.  The last part is what I struggle with the most right now.  In essence, for the last decade of it, I was a willing participant.  It is a total mind ___.  On an intellectual level I understand it, but emotionally I am in a state of flux    For now, it is what it is.

I am sorry that your mother tried to kill you (and only here can someone write that sentence and not have it be part of a movie!).  That is serious stuff and must add to the fear and anger.  Have you ever heard of the medean mother?  She is described briefly in "Understanding the borderline Mother" as a subset of the witch.  There is not a whole lot of information out there though.  In general, that book is a good one to read, but it can bring up some tough emotions (just a caution).

I'm glad you found the board!  Keep sharing.  We can all listen and support you. 

Best wishes to you all for the new year 

Thanks Kwamina and Harri for your replies. It is a comfort to me to know that I'm not the only one who has suffered these terrible things.

Kwamina, yes, my mother was aggressive to people who were close to her, especially when they were about to leave her. She once knocked my stepdad down the stairs (one of about ten stepdads in a row) while I was watching her. She then tried to knock the poor man down with his suitcase. Apart from that, the 'bullsh!t' as my partner and I call it, started when I went from dating to a serious relationship with my partner. My mother picked verbal fights with me and abused me emotionally day and night (which she has done ever since I was little, but then it intensified). This drove me so crazy that eventually I went NC.

I don't think I'm ready to accept that I was powerless and that the abuser is responsible for what happened. The grief and fear are too intense to handle. I wish I had more people to be around during the day, so that I'd be able to turn to them while trying to grasp the actual truth and the emotions it causes.

Thanks for your kind words, I guess I need to hear I'm doing things right... .:)

Harri, how sad that you had to suffer the abuse for such a long period. I don't want to compare anything but I have to tell you that in my case, the abuse also lasted for years. It happened a couple of times a week. I hope I don't trigger any strong emotions by telling the following. I was told I was being  'cleaned' while I was actually being abused. I didn't know any better. What is more, I was made to feel dirty, worthless and powerless. These feelings still last. I remember that one time, though it might have happened more often, I was penetrated (raped) with an object.

I totally agree that these sort of things cannot be understood soon. I guess it takes a lot of time to understand with the heart that we weren't guilty and that we are powerful women now. I hope you and I will feel this eventually.

Yes, I've read Understanding the Borderline Mother. It was a revelation to me. My mother is the medean type. My partner keeps reminding me that the most important message from the book is that hatred can only be cured with love.

Are you getting professional help at the moment? It must have been very difficult to know what was going on while you couldn't do anything about it.

Meanwhile I'm working through the Survivor to Thriver book, which I think will be really useful to me in the coming months and maybe even years.

Hi Polly.  I am glad to see you back here.   

No worries about comparing.  I see it more as relating and sharing so it is all good.  Also, please feel free to talk about any aspect of the mdsa (mother daughter sexual abuse) you like with me.  I view being triggered as a mostly positive thing as if/when it does happen,  I see it as a reminder of points I need to work on or where I am not fully healed (though i am not sure such a thing is always possible).  That being said, I do not enjoy feeling triggered but I will not shy away from it either.

The examples you gave are both familiar and, I think, somewhat common for those who have had this type of abuse.  I am not saying that to minimize, but to let you know there are others out there talking about it and who have experienced the same, including me.  It is such an abuse (that word seems too gentle here) of trust and exploitation of our vulnerability and dependence as children.  The fact that the very person who gave you life and who is supposed to protect you is anything but safe and caring is outrageous to me.  To then turn things around and make you feel "dirty, worthless and powerless" is, I think, evil.  That is not a word I use lightly either.  It hurts to know you had to endure that and it hurts even more to know you are feeling shame.  It is not yours and never should have been put on you. 

I am not getting professional help at the moment but I have in the past.  I had reached a point where I saw no point in going to an office only to sit there saying "Yes, I get it.  It was bad, but what do I do now?"  I left to work on it on my own as I got out in the world to learn how to live.  I have recently run into a couple things that let me know I am getting to a new point that may be a bit over my head so I am proceeding with caution and will seek help if needed.  How about you?  There is an online resource for mother daughter sexual abuse that I can pass along to you here if you are interested.  There is a member only board and there is a $5.00 monthly fee, but I can vouch that it is a legitimate place (or at least when I was posting there several years ago).  It sounds like you are pretty raw right now so I would suggest not poking around too much on your own at least for a while.  This site is a wonderful place to get support, validation and understanding as well.


<wry smile>  I hear you.  Boy do I hear you.  Believing I was the cause or at least held responsibility for my part is what has helped me not feel like such a victim... .but in the end I have only victimized myself.  There is a recent thread by justnothing on this very thing.  That thread and some conversations with others on this board and via messages here have sort of pushed me into a new awareness and closer to shedding the shame I feel.  It is a bit of 'awww crap, I have to do this aGain?" and "gosh I am tired right now" combined with some excitement that I feel about this whole thing. 

Again, feel free to ask/share whatever you feel comfortable asking and sharing.  I am willing to walk beside you as you move along.  I don't necessarily have any answers or a how-to list, but I can be a cheerleader for ya!  I wish you the very best as you keep on this incredible, difficult, and wonderful journey! 

Wow that is sure a new idea to me, triggers as positive reminders of the stuff you have to work on... .  |iiii Thanks for sharing this and thanks for your kind words. May I ask what happens to you when you are triggered? What kind of things tend to trigger you? Do you ever feel that you aren't moving forward despite these reminders?

I myself have been struggling with triggers the past year or so. (It has gotten worse since I can't seem to find a job, which is partly caused by moving away from my home town because of uBPDm. Being unemployed makes me feel even more worthless.) When I am triggered, I am subconsciously reminded of the words of uBPDm: "look, you're getting too stressed out! You can't handle life! You're good for nothing! It's only because of me that you're still alive". This is what she would literally say to me, sometimes in different wordings. So, when I am triggered, I get even more freaked out because I am freaking out. No-one can reach my heart then. This circle seems impossible to break. I don't know what to do. In most cases - I hope I don't trigger you by telling this - I get mad at myself and I hurt myself, after which my partner tries to comfort me and if even that doesn't help, I have to take my medication and go to sleep.

Thanks for the info about that board; I don't think I'm ready to read much more about the topic at the moment... .This board alone is more than enough for now :)

What kind of therapy did you use to get? Do you mean to say that your therapist did not offer enough help to cope with your daily life?

Thanks for the cheerleading... .   In a way, I'm also excited about the journey to recovery which I feel has only begun a week ago or so... .

Hi Polly. 

I am going to pass on something a friend explained to me long ago and see if it is helpful for you.  If it is, great, and if it ins't, just leave it.   --->

I am thinking about where you said you have had a hard time with triggers this year and how being triggered 'freaks you out'.  A friend explained to me long ago that after growing up with what I did, it would be more odd and more abnormal for me *not* to have issues. 

When they told me that I clung to that as my lifeline.  It helped me to put things into a workable context without spiraling out of control in that circle you describe.  The thing is, others may be able to give you a bit of a jolt, but you have to get yourself out of that circle.  Acceptance is the key I think.  Accepting that you are feeling triggered and that there are reasons for you to be triggered and it is an entirely normal response to a lifetime of insanity.  Then stay with the trigger and work it though.  Definitely talk with your counselor about this though.  It has helped me immensely but I still struggle with not self-harming (eating) or isolating myself to save all the poor defenseless people from the evil that is me   , etc.  It is only very recently, through posting here, that I have figured out that my binging is a sign that I am *triggered*. Seems crazy that I was aware that eating is a self-harming defense behavior but was unaware that it is something I do as a result of a trigger. 

Will answer your other questions in a different post.  Don't want to lose this

Hi again.  My connection was a bit wonky earlier today and I was on a tablet... .have yet to figure out how to save stuff on the darn thing, never mind that my typing is seriously hampered. 

One thing I wanted to add to what my old friend told me about how having 'issues' is entirely normal given the circumstances is that I recently learned, again through my interactions her on the board, that I had been trying to live as if I could be 'normal and without issues'.  So not only did I have to accept that it was normal for me to have issues so I could stop freaking out about the fact that I had them, it took me a long long time to realize that I could not go through life expecting me to have 'normal' responses just like most people out there who had never experienced abuse.  I hope that made sense.  I can find the thread and the post for you if it does not make sense and yet you want it to!   

You what happens when i am triggered.  Well, it varies but I have flashbacks, usually visual but sometimes auditory and sometimes both at the same time.  I sometimes feel anxiety/have a panic attack where I shake, sweat, my head pounds and I feel like I am going to pass out.  When it is like that, sometimes I vomit.  What usually happens though is that I shut down emotionally.  I look fine on the outside, but inside I have checked out.  I believe it is called mild dissociation.  Sometimes I sort of float above the room watching myself and anyone else.  I mentioned that I eat/binge when i am triggered.

The biggest trigger I have right now is feeling hot breath on my face whether it is my own when the bed covers are too high up, when I am in a close place with no air circulation (I am a big fan of fans!  :) )  or someone else (this makes kissing a pretty big challenge though i can usually make a joke about it cuz it really is funny in a weird/hysterical way sorta like "sure, we can kiss just don't breath on me!". 

There are some things that I just do not like and I can link them to the abuse but i do not consider them triggers.  I just hate, get very annoyed or frustrated when i have to deal with them but i am able (usually) to do so with a minimum of fuss so i do not consider them a trigger.  They are more of a dislike or a quirk.

I think it was back in august where I started having flashbacks, was binging more than usual, went back to fearing monsters under my bed and had to sleep with the light on.  It took a few months to get over it all and it is only the last week or so where I can turn off all the lights.  The thing is, when I get like that, it means that something is coming up from deep within that needs to be processed and dealt with.  As annoying and as frustrating as that was, I saw it as very positive for me as it meant I was ready to move on and through.

I've mostly done talk therapy with a bit of DBT in it.  I have done quite a bit of work on my own or with supportive (mostly) friends over the years.  Recently i stated at mood gym which is DBT (I believe) based.  It is online and free so you may want to consider it though definitely talk with your T about it.  I did not mean to imply my T was not good (I had a few, some better than others).  My last T was awesome and she is the one who sent me out in the world to learn how to live.  I had to as I had been so isolated and enmeshed that I was paralyzed trying to buy things for my new apartment.  Haha, I could not pick out a dish pattern and decided on clear just to make a choice!  I still have and use those plates and I am glad I chose them.  they go with everything! 

Are there any particular triggers or behaviors you have that you want to talk about?  I feel bad as this is your thread but in answering your questions I have done nothing but talk about me.  it is helping me though and I am hoping it is of some help to you too.  I haven't asked you specific questions only because you are a bit fragile (understandably!) right now and i do not want to bring things up for you but please do keep talking about the things that are important to you.  If asking me questions helps you, I am totally fine with that.  Like I said, it is helping me too.  In the meantime, I can relate to having free time and feeling worthless not having a job.  Try to find easy hobbies or set goals for learning things or do something to help you keep busy.  It is all too easy to get bogged down in the past, get triggered in the present and fear tomorrow.  Be easy on yourself okay?


Happy adventuring!   I am glad to see at least part of your journey!

Hi Harri,

Thanks for your elaborate posts :). Why yes it is true that it wouldn't be normal if I didn't experience triggers after the stuff I've been through! I seem to have a different standard for myself though and I mentally know that this is unfair. I'm not ready to be that gentle with myself. I wish I could, though.

I do talk with my therapist about the triggers. I feel like this tends to take up too much time and it takes up EMDR time. But then I sometimes doubt if EMDR is the right thing for me because I struggle especially with emotions and not so much with flashbacks. This week's session did seem to reduce the nightmares I'd been having for the last month (I hadn't seen my therapist for about a month because I got the flu and then she was on holiday) but I wonder if that's because of the talk or because of the EMDR. I have a hard time trying to connect with my emotions during therapy sessions and I think that's what keeps me from greater progress.

Thank you for sharing what happens to you during triggers. It's interesting that in my case, the opposite happens... .all the emotions of the past want to come out, especially anger and fear. I don't know what to do with these emotions and from there, things tend to go wrong as I said before. I get dizzy, I want to scream and shout, I want to run away, sometimes my heart pounds, my vision gets blurry, and I become very afraid of these emotions. In some cases I manage to calm down but in most cases things go from bad to worse as I described.

I have flashbacks but they are emotional rather than visual. This makes me doubt if they are flashbacks at all. I sometimes wonder if I suppress the actual memory, which is there under the surface, but then it's not really one moment in time but more like a hundred memories at once, for example about "not being good enough". That is actually my biggest trigger. Shame and guilt. Another big one is powerlessness. I wonder if it would help to have a couple of sessions about this with my therapist. I don't think I've told her clearly enough how these emotions affect me. I think she thinks the trouble is in the flashbacks.

May I ask for how long you've been healing? It sounds as if you've been healing for quite some years. It's a long road isn't it.

I looked up DBT and my first thought was wow why don't I do that! It seems like an effective therapy to 'correct' (I can't think of another word) the behaviours and thoughts that aren't helpful to yourself, the 'fleas' that you've picked up from living with the abuser.

I used to be isolated like you, not being able to make decisions and not seeing anyone. Since I moved to a different town last summer, I can now see friends who live nearby and this really helps me to feel better. I find it difficult to even think about hobbies. Luckily, yesterday I got the green light for a freelance project which will keep me busy for a month or so. I'm very happy about it. I can finally earn some money. We've been having a hard time trying to make ends meet since about a year and a half so this is very welcome.

Love,

polly

Hiya!


Okay, I get that.  I am going to challenge you on this a bit.  You walked away from an abusive situation with your mother and put yourself first (rightly so)  |iiii.  You are no contact with the rest of that side of your family because their enabling and encouraging your mother was causing you pain/was also abusive ( |iiii ).  You came here and started posting about very hard stuff and have followed through on this post in particular    

**So you already are being "that gentle" with yourself**.  Your feelings will follow your behaviors Polly (I learned that here too!)  Waiting until you feel ready to do something or to allow yourself to believe something that can help you move forward does not work.  If you do not have the energy to embrace this  right now that is okay too.  But when you do have the energy, remember you don't have to actually *believe* it to say it to yourself or for it to eventually work.   :)

When I was in T, I had a hard time even talking sometimes and definitely struggled with the emotions part of it.  I finally had to resort to writing notes or a list of things I wanted to talk about otherwise it was 45 minutes of silence as I shredded tissues.  I don't know if that will help you or not but yeah, I do understand.  It is hard work but you are doing it rather than avoiding.   :)


Definitely tell your T.  It sounds to me like you are very in touch with your feelings and you know what needs to be addressed first.  You have described your challenges here very clearly.  Maybe writing things down will help you focus in the T's office?


Well, I moved out of the family home when I was 37 or so and I am now 49.  I worked on things off and on since then.  I had gone for counseling prior to my move for maybe 2 years a long time ago, but it was not for the sexual abuse or BPDmother/?father issues.  It does take time.  I tried to speed my way through a few things because so much of my life was 'wasted'.  For some things the speed style worked and for others... .not so much.  I am hitting some walls now that I think I 'should have' overcome already, but whatever.  I can do this.  I just don't *want* to  but I will.  

Polly, as always, take whatever works for you and leave the rest.  No pressure from me, even if I do get wordy and may sound bossy.  You know yourself and your needs best.  I am glad you checked out DBT.  It can be very very helpful.  I am also very happy that you were able to move to a new town!  That is exciting and so very good as you move along in your healing.  Never doubt your capabilities Polly.  You survived an awful childhood and came out a decent person with a few 'issues'   and that is pretty impressive on it's own.  On top of that you are working hard to find better ways of thinking and living and that takes a whole boatload of courage.  Carry on my friend.     Oh yeah, congrats on the work project!  That is wonderful!

^This. I love this. I am going to have to write this on my chart!

Argggh!  I just realized that I made it sound like I have been in therapy and/or working on healing for 12 years straight through.  Sorry.  All told, I would say i have had a good three to four years total of therapy.  I know a few other people who have experienced abuse like we did including the incest who were able to function and have healthy relationships (with kids even!) after about 3 years.  :)o not underestimate how helpful sites like this one can be.  Please do not use my longer time and need for continued work as an indication for how long it will take you.  There were other variables that slowed me down or diverted my therapy.

Okay, I swear I am done talking... .for now!  

Yeah, wow!  :) That's really something I'll try to remind myself of! Thanks so much Harri.

I didn't mean that your recovery time would necessarily be as long as mine... .I just wondered about your journey and when it started and how it has been for you. It sounds as if you had a hard time talking about the abuse itself... .I hope you did manage to talk about it as much as you needed in the final years of your therapy.

I'll write down the stuff about triggers to discuss with my therapist. She told me the EMDR will help me to manage my feelings, but I'm not so sure because, as I said before, I'm not sure if I actually have the classical PTSD flashbacks.

I know what you mean by not wanting to overcome the abuse stuff, but still trying to go for it. Sometimes I feel that I just want to hide and forget everything but unfortunately we can't... .we've been through hell and now we have to deal with the memories and the 'fleas'.

What sort of walls are you hitting at the moment? If you don't want to tell, just don't, I'm only curious where you are in your journey.

This site and in particular the threads I've been contributing to have been a great help to me. I feel I'm finally on the right track.

Thanks again for your kind words and encouragement. 

You are most welcome Polly.  I am glad it made sense to you (and you too Ziggiddy!) but it is not really mine.  It is something I picked up from someone here.  The best things about these boards is how we can all learn from each other.   There are so many people who get this stuff and have worked it through and are willing to share.  

Thank you.  I have been able to talk about the abuse as I need to in therapy and I consider myself fortunate in that.  Outside of T I don't often talk about it though.  I don't think most people need to know about it.  I will talk about it with those who I believe can either benefit from it or those I want to know because of the nature of our relationship and they have been quite supportive for the most part.  Writing that made me realize I still do not feel comfortable sharing it.     LOL  I think it is the whole 'drama' that surrounds it that makes me hesitate sometimes.  I don't want people to treat me differently or expect them to coddle me and I am a bit afraid they will.  

I did a very few sessions with EMDR (don't remember much about it though) but I did not trust the process for whatever reason.  Polly, if you think you would rather not do EMDR or would benefit from something else, tell your T.  If she does not listen to you, then that tells you a lot about her.  I also read a post you made elsewhere about guilt.  Like just nothing and Ziggiddy, it sounds very off to me.  

About your flashbacks.  Emotional flashbacks are sort of the hallmark of complexPTSD (c-PTSD) so yours do fit the criteria.  I do get them, but when it happens, I shut down very quickly sometimes before I am even aware of having the emotions.  I find it very frustrating because it makes it very difficult for me to work things through I suppose what you experience is not easier.  heh, too bad we could not combine our reactions to get a more workable level of emotions that can be worked through!  

One of the walls I am/was hitting is shame/guilt/blame (it is all jumbled together into a big mess).  I've been holding on to a lot of it and only recently had a few interactions here that are helping me to break through but I am still all foggy and confuzzled about it.  I really should start a thread on it soon before I block things out and get all comfy in my shame/guilt/blame cycle.  LOL I talked with a friend about it and made little sense so I think it is going to be a long chatty one when I do it.


Yes, we do have to deal with it all.  Thanks for that.  

PS Zig... .you have a board?  What kind of board?  Can you describe it?  I need some way of writing this stuff down as I have a tendency of forgetting lessons learned and then have to do them all over again.  

Hahaha yes a board! I often refer to this terrible movie from the 80's called Dream Team - about a group of escaped mental hospital patients. One of them, played by Christopher Lloyd always pretends he is a doctor and every time someone does something he gives them a stern look and says "I'm going to have to WRITE. THAT. DOWN."

So I pretend to have a clipboard ... .. It makes me laugh anyhow 

But seriously there really are so many gems of information worth keeping that I just open a document, call it something innocuous like "If you don't read this you'll blow a hole in the space time continuum" and then every little nugget gets copied and pasted into it. Then when it's big enough, I print it and start another.

I often take whatever I've printed - eg from webpages, articles books pdfs etc down to the school bus stop and read it while I wait for the kids to come home. it helps settle the info in my mind.

Now as far as you hitting a wall with the shame difficulty, remember that it takes time to nravel it. You are making new neurons and forging new pathways into your brain.

Changing an entire belief system doesn't happen in a heartbeat.

If you think about your times tables how did you learn them? By repetition. Insight and psychoeducation create new avenues but it is repetition and finding things that corroborate  your new beliefs that thicken the neural networks.

You could think of it like this - you drive to work the same way every day. Then you change jobs but find yourself driving the way to your old job.

Memory and beliefs are quite resistant to change and only respond to repeated overlaid memories and beliefs.

It is unfortunate that so many memories and beliefs that are mixed in with BPD/NPD are emotionally charged. Shame is incredibly resistant to change. Perhaps the hardest thing of all to address.

(Many many addiction specialists will testify to this)

You may try some exercises to contact your outrage which will do a great deal to obliterate your false conditioned sense of shame.

One I heard of recently is this: you write a letter to your abuser (in your case, your mother) outlining what she did to you (this can be as vague or specific as you like) Now the intent is not to send the letter but rather to direct your mind to the abuse. In this you let out as much outrage as possible - using words like "How DARE you?" and "What gives you the right?" etc.

Then you write a letter to the passive parent who did not save you or rescue you.

next, you write a letter to the damaged child from your adult self expressing whatever you feel you need to say to her.

Then you write a fairy tale about what was or what could have been, casting yourself as the princess/star whatever. This story you write in the third person referring to yourself as 'she.' You refer to monsters and dragons and call the incest the Black Plague or the thunderstorm etc It's all metaphor.

This helps put some distance between you and your emotions and get a more external perspective.

There's more stuff like this. I guess it's important to take it slow and be caring to yourself.

Annnnddd just realised I have post-hijacked again. Sorry polly!

Haha Ziggiddy I don't mind your post-hijacking, feel free to speak your mind while you're here!  lol

Thanks for reminding me that it takes time to change the way I think and feel about what has happened... .That exercise is interesting, I think I'll try that out while I'm still not able to do the exercise of writing everything down about the abuse. I like the distance that the letter writing creates between me and what has happened, as if it were fiction... .I think the only way to deal with it for now is to see it as if it happened in a horror movie or a book.

With so many suggestions for exercises and therapies and other stuff to check out I'm going to have to make a 'board' as well!  :) I'll take it slow though because I feel vulnerable and my energy is low now.

Harri, it doesn't really matter to me who thought up that "feelings follow behaviours", the main thing is that I know about it now and I find it a real gem.

Wow, I didn't know that cPTSD was about emotional flashbacks... .I read some basic information about it and though I'm of course no psychologist, the symptoms seem to match the way I feel. This is another thing on the list of stuff to discuss with my T. Thanks a lot for pointing out the difference between PTSD and cPTSD 'cause I wasn't aware of this. It makes me wonder why my T never talked about the possibility of a cPTSD diagnosis... .I don't mean to talk about my T too much and I'm sorry if I do. It's my mother and my memories of her that are the actual problems of course.

I would sure like to combine our reactions to flashbacks - that'd be good for both of us! Do you know why you shut down though? Does it have to do with not feeling safe enough to experience these emotions? I tend to shut down when I'm on my own or with people I don't trust (which feels very similar if you know what I mean  ). Only when I'm with my partner, I feel safe enough to allow the emotions to surface, but I can't regulate them (and neither can he, of course). I guess it's very difficult as well to experience the other extreme... .I hope you'll be able to overcome this so that you can make another step in your recovery process.

Love,

polly

Hi again polly87

You've gotten some great responses here :)


I can't asnwer this for Harri of course, but in general what I can say is that it's nearly impossible to heal if you don't feel safe. Keeping that in mind, it makes perfects sense that you would only allow the emotions to surface when you're feeling safe like you do with your partner.

Feeling like you're shutting down is actually probably quite common when you're trying to process these intense emotions and memories. You've been through a lot and that (unfortunately) often will also mean that it will take a lot to work through certain issues. It might help to observe yourself and your own thoughts when you feel like you're 'shutting down'. Some questions to ask yourself that might help:

• What goes through your mind when this happens? What kind of thoughts are going through your head right before you feel like you're starting to shut down? Can you pinpoint and describe these thought?



• What are you telling yourself when this happens?



• Are you judging yourself for what you feel is 'shutting down'?



• Would you say that you are deliberately shutting down because you don't want to explore certain things now or more like you are getting overwhelmed by your intense emotions? Either way it's ok, healing takes time as well as commitment and also practice.

I find this part of your post very interesting in which you mention the issue of 'shame and guilt'. This is something many children of BPD parents struggle with. Thoughts such as "not being good enough" are what you can call automatic negative thoughts. They automatically pop up in your head and can have a huge impact on how you feel. Do you experience more of these kind of automatic negative thoughts? And when do you experience them, only when you're doing this deep emotional work or also during the rest of the day?

PS.


Recent scientific research has actually shown that a high concentration of BPD energy has the potential to greatly disrupt the natural flow of time. When these phenomena occur it's crucial to take a step back and mindfully examine your surroundings

I KNEW it! <Looks suspiciously at Chesterfield sofa bobbing weightlessly in nearby field>

But seriously folks ... .

Emotional flashbacks are incredibly debilitating and that is why it's so easy to fear them.

It has been a huge relief to me to identify what they are and to know that they can actually be great opportunities for healing and growth.

Me I never knew that being shot through with adrenaline and face all flushed with heat and shrinking up inside were not usual feelings for others nor were they related entirely to what is going on in the present.

Accessing the view of the inner child helped me no end.

Also to understand that the shutting down was an integral part of protection and safety stopped me feeling bad about that. Shutting down as your own brain's attempt to preserve you, to save you, to ensure your own survival - what a thing!

it is important, I think to learn to embrace your survival mechanisms rather than fear them or be ashamed of them. In a very real sense, at one time or another they were the only real 'friend' you had.

Yeah I did! Thanks so much everyone   you've helped me so much in my journey to recovery.


Yes, I'd say that I shut down deliberately because I don't feel I'm able to cope with the emotions and/or the memories. Now that I'm considering this, I realise that I spend a rather big part of my daily life suppressing the emotions and memories that are trying to surface in my mind. This becomes harder when I'm tired or stressed and now I realise that I tend to get triggered more easily when I'm tired because my energy is taken up by this suppressing.

I was touched when you said that it makes sense if I'd only allow the emotions to surface when I'm feeling safe with my partner. I've been feeling so guilty (no surprise there   ) because I can only get triggered when I'm alone with him. I've been trying to explain this to him by telling him I don't feel that safe with anyone else in the world and yet I feel like I'm using him for my healing. I can't seem to help it. Sometimes an emotion wants to surface, for example when I was at yoga class this morning, and I nearly break down and cry but then I think of my classmates and I don't want to lose face. As a kid, I was told I should only feel happy   , which is as strange as it sounds. I blame myself when I'm sad, stressed, or anything else other than happy. In fact, sometimes when I'm happy I'm afraid to feel it.

I used to keep a journal as a way of keeping in touch with myself but ever since the big fights with uBPDm, I've reclined from writing because I feel ashamed of myself for myself, if that makes sense. I guess I have to make peace with the fact that all this stuff has happened to me. I have yet to find a way of doing so.

Anyhow, to answer your questions (which I'm glad you asked): when I shut down, I'm thinking that I shouldn't think of the memory or I shoudn't feel the emotion. I'm disgusted by what has happened to me. I don't want to deal with it when I'm alone. I'm scared of what might happen (self-harm because of the guilt and shame, a black-out, or one of those terrible flashbacks in which I only remember a great deal of pain and the fear of dying). In fact none of these things has ever happened when I'm on my own. However I tell myself that they might happen and therefore I need to shut down. I don't judge myself then: I don't feel anything anymore for the time being.



Oh yes, automatic negative thoughts. They're my close friends, you know.   I mentally know I should kick them out, but they offer me security. The security that the things I learned about the world as a kid were correct. I'm not ready to pick up a new view of the world, at least not entirely yet. I'm so afraid to love myself. I don't know what will happen if I do.

The weekend before Christmas ('14) was the only time I did. The holiday had just started and I was relaxing and chatting with my partner. For a moment, I was convinced that I was a good person and I had done nothing wrong. Within minutes, this led to the scariest flashback of the moment I was raped. I didn't even know I still had access to this memory in my mind. The memory consisted of extreme pain and the fear to die. My partner said I was tuned out of reality for half an hour. It took the longest time to stop me crying and screaming.

I think it's relevant that this memory is linked to the feeling of being a good person. At the moment I was raped, I lost that conviction. I started to believe I was and am not evil but not inherently good either.

The automatic negative thoughts come to me at all times of the day, but especially when there is the possibility of my not being good enough in some way. For example when I'm cooking dinner or when I find out I forgot to pay a bill.


Thanks for pointing this out Ziggiddy... .I tend to forget that the flashbacks provide me with the information I need to heal... .They sure like to repeat their message  :)

I'll make a note of this to remind myself that I don't need to feel afraid or ashamed of the flashbacks since they're a survival mechanism and indeed I needed them.

It might help to ask yourself what it would be like if this would happen to someone else. What if one of your classmates would break down and cry? How would that make you feel? How would you think about that person? Would you consider him/her to be losing face? Would you feel like that person shouldn't be crying but should always be happy? Should that person always be happy even if he or she had been abused?


It makes sense and it is what it is. Perhaps it would help for you to just try and accept the way you're feeling right now including any shame or other negative emotions. It would definitely be more pleasant not to experience these emotions, but that doesn't make them go away. Why do you think that you feel ashamed of yourself for yourself? Is it the negative inner voice talking inside of you bringing you down?


We could also flip this around of course  Considering what you've been through, I think a very strong case could also be made for you feeling exactly the way you do and that it's only normal to feel this way.

When you say you're disgusted by what has happened to you, do you just feel your mother's behavior was disgusting? Or also like those experiences have made you yourself 'disgusting' in some way?


Being raped is a horrible thing to have happen to you and I'm very sorry this has been done to you. Have you discussed this recent episode and the rape with a therapist either now or in the past? Rape is a traumatic experience for all people who've been through this and I believe the help of a therapist might be greatly beneficial to you as you try to deal with these difficult memories. Yet I also know from your previous posts that you had some concerns about your current therapist. How do you feel about your therapist now? have you addressed your concerns with him/her?

Hi Polly!  I want to thank you for starting this post!  As I have been responding here and reading posts from everyone, it has helped me to focus (sort of!) on things I have been wanting to work out for myself.   Reading responses here is giving me some direction!  I may be doing some copy and pasting of some of the responses here to work on my own stuff as i do not want to make this thread all about me... .kinda like I just did!  Just trying to explain and say thanks!

You asked why I shut down and it is for a few reasons though they are either outdated given the circumstances of my life right now or have just become habit for me.  For the longest time, it really wasn't safe for me to feel the emotions as I was still living with my parents.  Not only was the abuse ongoing, though the frequency of the sexual abuse did decrease a bit, but I had zero privacy.  My things were searched, including my car, so there was no chance to journal or anything like that and files on the computer were not safe either.  My mother would sneak into my room and try to surprise me at the computer and stuff like that.  The only time away I had was school and then with work.  Those served as my ticket out or were my only refuge so I did not want to screw those up by breaking down.  Then there was the fact that I did not have the skills to help myself through it and I did not trust myself to be able to handle things in such a way that I did not break or would not be able to function at work (especially after I moved and had to support myself).  So lack of internal resources (? correct word here) and no self-trust.  I am very glad to say that none of those apply any more (thanks to this thread I was able to break that down!) and I realize a lot of my shutting down is just habit at this point.  There may be one or more reasons more, but I am not aware of what they are yet so I am not going to worry about them.  The good news is, I did not shut down yesterday or today!  I was struck by the realization that I no longer want to shut down either which makes me very happy.  (and here I go again making this all about me... .apologies)

I do not want to add too much to what you are already working on (Kwamina and Ziggiddy have given very helpful responses here).  I think you are doing a fabulous job BTW and your courage and determination is helping to fuel mine.  Maybe though you can have a mental ToDo list and at the very top of the list start adding things you can do to build trust in yourself to know you truly can handle the emotions and work them through in healthy ways?  I don't really have any specific suggestions for you but maybe that is something we can talk about here or in another thread? 

I will tell you that I already know you and I are more than capable of working through the emotions and dealing with them in a healthy way.  Ziggiddy said to embrace the survival mechanisms we came up with right?  Well, if we could come up with such awesome, effective and stubbornly long-lasting ( ) survival mechanisms, imagine what we can do now that we are aware, in a safe place and have more support than ever before!  :)  I keep telling myself I already got through the hard part, I can do this.  And look at where you are today compared to even two weeks ago?  Pretty amazing right? 

Thanks so much for your kind words and encouragement Harri and Kwamina. I had a hard evening/night yesterday with another failed attempt at not feeling guilty which unfortunately ended with self-harm and my partner being sort of angry with me so I really needed your responses. I just wanted to say thanks before starting my day. I'll reply in more detail later on today.

I'm sorry to hear you had such a tough night yesterday. I hope you're feeling better now... .

Thank you Kwamina, I’m feeling better than I was yesterday at least.

I’m going to answer your and Harri’s post in detail so be prepared for a long read . I hope you don’t find it triggering (I don’t describe any details of abuse but some parts are about how I feel and I don’t feel ok today.)


I have double standards. I wouldn’t judge my yoga classmates if they had to cry. In fact, one of them did and she talked to our teacher after class. I had to cry once or twice and I couldn’t stop crying, even when the next people started to drop in for the next class. I don’t want to feel so ashamed again.

If someone else had to cry, though, I wouldn’t feel like they shouldn’t cry. I don’t know about other people’s sense of happiness… I tend to think that other people are able to manage their feelings like a trained dog that listens to their command. I don’t think anything about other people’s sadness except that I feel sorry for them.

I know what you’re going to say….and nope I’m not ready to feel really sorry for myself. When I do, I get so sad and afraid.


I’m ashamed of myself because I’m not ready to accept that I did nothing wrong as a kid and, following from that, that I’m not a bad person. This shift in worldview is too much for me right now.

Yesterday, for the second time in my life, I had a fleeting moment of actually feeling that things weren’t my fault and that I wasn’t such a bad person. This led to a fit of emotions (fear and sadness) and eventually, I felt guilty that I had taken up so much time and energy of my partner. This guilt propelled me back into believing that I was and am bad. He didn’t understand that my view of myself was (and is atm) shifting back and forth, like a car that doesn’t start properly and then the motor dies again for a moment. Man, I feel like I don’t even have started driving lessons and I’m blamed for not having reached my destination, if that makes sense. However, I don’t want to speak bad of my partner in any way because he’s been so good to me all the time. Yesterday was the first time I’ve seen him actually angry with me. I fear it’s becoming too much for him. What with the fleas I picked up when I still lived with uBPDm, I have an irrational fear of being abandoned emotionally and if I feel this way I tend to want to leave to prevent being the one that’s left. I realise this is mean and immature. So what happens then is that I threaten to leave and go to my dad or something and then I hope with all my might that he says something like no of course you don’t have to go, I still love you.

Writing this down makes me feel sick with loathing of myself. I wish I could go back in time and undo everything that has been done to me but hey of course I can’t. I have to deal with the freaking stuff even if this means putting stain after stain on what used to be a loving relationship. I feel like a bag of sh!t.


Yes, I am disgusted by what my mother has done to me. And yes, I am disgusted by myself. I feel worthless, like an object that has been used and torn. I feel stained, tainted, dirty, low, and not to be respected. I feel like I’m a burden to those who know what I’ve been through. I’m freaking afraid I will turn out to be not worthy of my partner like I’ve always feared.


I think I didn’t make myself clear enough... I was talking about when uBPDm raped me as a kid (using an object).  (Incidentally, I was assaulted by a stranger a couple of years ago, but that's another story.)

In today’s therapy session there wasn’t any time to discuss my concerns about the course of therapy. It went rather okayish though. Because I was so raw from yesterday’s trouble, I could access my emotions quite easily. This won’t be the case every time though (at least I hope it won’t!) so I guess I’ll still have to discuss with my T whether it’ll be helpful to address the emotional rather than the visual flashbacks… Or maybe I’ll just see what happens when the visual flashbacks are treated in EMDR. I’m not quite sure atm…



You’re welcome Harri! I’m very glad I’ve been able to help you. Your posts have also been very helpful to me, so thanks to you too!


I’m so sorry that you were abused for such a long time. Abuse is in itself terrible, but reading it went on for so long makes me feel so sad for you. I totally understand what you meant in another post when you talked about lost years. I sincerely hope you feel better now.

I know what you mean by zero privacy. When I was made to go on holiday with my mother, for example, I was forced to sleep with her in one bed. I’m pretty sure she read my diary too. About two years ago, she hacked my email account and read all my mail.



Congrats on not shutting down!  |iiii I’m happy for you. And I’m impressed by the fact that you managed to build self-trust and internal resources. I can't say I'm that far myself but I keep trying... .

Please don’t apologise for sharing stuff about yourself! I’m interested in your journey. Keep sharing as much as you like.


 

Wow, I never heard such kind words about my progress. Thank you ma'am :). Yes I think it’s a good idea to open a thread on handling emotions in a healthy way. This issue is in the top three of the things I have to learn if not number one.


I don’t know what to say….just thanks, thanks so much!  

Yeah I could have said that but that wasn't what I was going to say though  What I want to say is perhaps you should accept the way you're feeling at any given moment regardless of how you're feeling. Allow yourself to experience and observe your feelings and emotions without judging yourself. And then as you accept things as they are you can really start working on turning things around in the direction you want. You don't wanna feel this way and I totally get that because these intense negative emotions are very unpleasant. The reality is that you do feel the way you do and there's nothing you can change about that so perhaps a new strategy to try out could be to stop fighting your feelings but embracing them as a part of who you are at this moment without letting yourself be defined by those feelings.


If you carefully weight the pros and cons of holding on to the view that you're a bad and inherently flawed person, would you say the benefits outweigh the costs? Could you list the benefits of holding on to this negative view of yourself? What would you lose if you were to let go of this view of yourself and what do you think could be the possible gains?


Well the bad news is that you can't go back, you can't change your past. The good news is also that you can't go back because this means that you don't have to experience the abuse again.



What I see in these quotes is you labeling yourself and applying emotional reasoning. Do you believe that these labels give an accurate description of who you truly are? Aren't there any redeeming qualities of yourself that you can list? And if you can list some, doesn't that then mean that those harsh labels in reality don't apply to you or at the least give an inaccurate or incomplete description of you?

Sometimes when we feel really low we think that because we feel this way, this gives an accurate reflection of how things are. However when those feelings are a result of distorted thinking patterns, it could very well be that your feelings don't give an accurate reflection of what's really going on. This is called emotional reasoning. Do you think that emotional reasoning could be a factor in what's going on here?


Do you feel like you need to earn your partner's worth and if so why do you think you feel this way? Is it because you felt like no matter what you did you never got the approval you might have wanted from your mother? Do you perhaps tel yourself that if you prove yourself to be worthy in the eyes of your partner, this then proves that you mother was wrong because you in fact are lovable?


I suspected you were referring to what your mother did to you. I hope your therapist will be able to help you deal with these difficult memories of this traumatic event.

Hi again Kwamina and thanks for your reply.

Here’s another long read . I saw that this thread has been read lots of times and if there’s anyone willing to share their thoughts, know that you’re welcome :)


Well... .The pros of holding on to the negative view are that I do not have to accept the reality of having been abused. I don’t have to deal with the immense sadness and powerlessness that result from this experience.

The cons are that I’m stuck. I don’t get anywhere. I hurt my partner (emotionally I mean) when I harm myself. I remain afraid of not being good enough.

If I embrace the new view of myself, I’d have to deal with the scary stuff. I’d lose the security of being who I thought I was.

In the ideal case, I’d kick the self-harming habit and I wouldn’t hurt my partner so often and I’d feel less guilty.

So maybe you’d wonder what is keeping me back. The scary stuff is. I’m afraid to deal with all those emotions. I don’t have access to any 24/7 service or something. I guess I’ll have to deal with this myself. I’m not saying that I can’t discuss this with my T but the emotions are going to surface when I’m not in her office. Maybe keeping a journal and praying will keep me from going crazy. Any other suggestions are very welcome…


That’s true… I don’t have to experience it again. I just hope I’ll be able to neutralise the memories – I feel like I experience it again every day now in my mind.


Yes, I’m pretty sure this is a case of emotional reasoning. My thinking patterns are definitely distorted when I’m stressed out. I find it hard to think of any redeeming qualities in myself. Maybe the fact that I don’t intend to hurt others… But I’m not sure if that makes me a good person.

I find it hard to think about this issue. As grown-up people, we can decide what to think of ourselves, but as children, we were told we were good or bad. I was told I was bad so often that I find it nearly impossible to change this view of myself. And yes, I know, my mother was wrong. That doesn’t mean every untruth she put in my mind is suddenly changed.

I don’t mean at all to sound curt with you though… I will think your questions over and I know they’ll help me in my progress, which has quickened in a major way since I'm on this board.


You hit the nail on the head. Yes, I absolutely want my partner to say that he loves me without condition (and I’m ashamed for it). I feel like I need him so that I can replay the part I had as a kid who is desperate to be loved. I want to do it over and over and I want him to play the part of the loving one. (I'm aware that this is not a feature of a healthy relationship  my-issues)

In fact I told him about this mechanism yesterday. He asked me how T had been for me that morning. It had been a hard day for me because he was very sad because of what had happened the day before when I'd harmed myself. So yesterday evening we discussed T and how he felt. During that conversation, he told me, he stopped me from self-harming twice. I cannot even remember being about to harm myself. This shows just how badly my memory functions when I’m stressed.

I tried to make some sort of agreement with him about how much I’d tell him about my progress and the things I struggle with. I was and am worried that I take up too much of his time and energy. I told him that I need him to play out a certain part (and that I’m ashamed of it) to replay the rejection vs. unconditional love issue. I so wish I had an alternative to this.

In many cases, our conversations about my progress end up with me being afraid I tire him. I realised yesterday that the cause of this is my fear of being emotionally abandoned (which I told him). I usually ask him whether I tire him and when he says no, I don’t believe him because he always looks tired after a complicated discussion of things. I feel so sorry for him when I see him rubbing his eyes and blinking all the time. I blame myself for this. It’s too hard to feel that it’s actually my mother’s fault. It is my mother’s fault, isn’t it? Even now I can’t be really sure. Anyway then I usually get angry with myself for making him tired and sad and then the self-harming happens. This is actually the only thing that makes him sad, he told me yesterday just before we went to sleep. I find this so hard to believe but I know I have to believe him. The self-harm is my not-so-handy way of asking: will you please give me some more attention and care? Will you please not leave me? Will you please not judge me for being stressed? Will you please comfort me? And most of all: Will you please love me despite everything?

Needless to say, my “questions” do not yield the answers I need. My partner usually gets angry with me for harming myself. This confirms my view that I am a bad person. Sometimes I threaten to leave him because I find he has nothing to gain from being with me. All I want to hear is that he loves me despite all this baggage. I was so relieved this morning when he told me he loved me when he left for work. Yesterday he didn’t (though I did) and I felt more depressed than I had felt in the past 5 years.

Obviously, and ironically, this emotional flashback routine IS tiring for him. I wonder if some part of me does this on purpose to make a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I want to stop this. I want to believe that he loves me and that I am loveable. The only way I have of putting these thoughts from my mind is prayer. As I said before, all suggestions are welcome... .


Thank you  

Hi again polly,

After reading your post in which you ask for suggestions, I was wondering if you're familiar with Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT)?


The basic idea is that you write down any (automatic) negative thoughts you might have and try to counteract or combat them by writing a positive or rational response next to them. This is a technique that you can apply by yourself even without a therapist. In CBT 10 types of distorted thinking are identified:

- All or none thinking

- Overgeneralisation

- Mental filter

- Disqualifying the positive

- Jumping to conclusions

- Magnification or minimisation

- Emotional reasoning

- Should statements

- Labelling and mislabelling

- Personalisation

Another thing you might want to explore is meditation and mindfulness. This can help you stay calm and focused and help you become more aware of any lingering negative thoughts or emotions you might have. You can read some more about mindfulness here:

Triggering and Mindfulness and Wise Mind (https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind)

PS. Your post really wasn't that long you know

Hello Polly!  I think Kwamina has some excellent suggestions and I hope you check them out.  I think they will help you a great deal (and I plan of doing the very same thing!  haha)

Okay, so I have read your recent posts and I have been thinking about them quite a bit.  You show an incredible amount of awareness and insight into your emotions and how your defense mechanisms have protected you in the past but are harming you, and your relationship, in the present.  That awareness is very very good Polly.  You can't change things if you are not aware of them.  You can also see that the way you are handling things now are not at all healthy or productive.  That is more good stuff. 

To steal a line from Kwamina, you can't go back.  It is not that you are on the verge of insight, you have already achieved the insight you needed for this step of your journey.  You know that.  It is why you moved away, are in T and are coming here.  I believe if your brain/mind did not think you were *capable* (notice I did not say ready!) of working things through and moving beyond this point, you would still be back in a place where you are unaware.  So this is good stuff!  The thing is, you are using old behaviors and thoughts to cope and defend and avoid your past and the emotional toll/fallout and are at least indirectly losing sight of your new emotional and cognitive surroundings.  That is normal and understandable so please do not use that info to beat yourself up.  Just consider this a gentle bump from me.   Your behaviors and thoughts worked in the past, but they do not apply anymore and they are, or will, cause you even more harm.  Again, do not beat yourself up over that or get panicky.  You can work through this.  You have already worked through harder stuff right?  Well, from that experience you developed tools to help you right?  So you *can* do this.  It is just a matter of breaking things into more manageable bits so you do not get overwhelmed by the newish level/awareness of emotions and then you can figure out what new tools you need.

Maybe a first step would be to accept that you are now in a place where your wonderfully clever brain knows you can handle things.  Forget, for now, working on changing all of the behaviors and handling all of the emotions... .just accept that a **part of you knows you can handle and ultimately change what is going on for you right at this moment** -- even the times when you are overwhelmed and crying and scared and feeling so lost and hopeless and helpless.  Tell yourself that over and over and I know from experience that even those times when you are having flashbacks and block things out, deep inside that mind of yours you will hear yourself saying "I can handle this.  This is happening for a reason.  I don't like it.  I don't like feeling like this.  I am scared but **I am capable of dealing with this.**"  Say whatever works for you... .heck, roll your eyes at yourself if it makes it easier (I did/do that all the time) but the part of your mind that needs to hear it will be hearing it and over time, you will get more confident in your belief that you can do this and you are capable.

Just take that one step Polly.  **Remember, your feelings will follow your behaviors.**  Same things applies with the thoughts and self-talk you engage in.  When we speak, or write, not only do other people hear us, but we do as well and when you write or type, you have a tactile experience of your words.  With that, we are reinforcing our beliefs about us and the world.  So every time you tell yourself you are not emotionally ready or can't do this or are overwhelmed, you are reinforcing those beliefs and there is no chance of you moving beyond this point.  That's self-sabotage right?  So change that self talk.  Next time you hear in your head "I am scared" say "Of course I'm scared.  That is normal.  But I can do this and I choose to do so in spite of the fear".  Hell, if it helps tell yourself "Harri says I can do this".

Have you ever had the experience of being nervous about something, like a presentation or a speech and you keep telling yourself ":)on't mess this up" and sure enough, you mess it up?  Grrrr.  Well, One day I changed that self talk to "You *can* do this Harri.  You've got this" and sure enough, I did just fine.  It still works for me... .and when i forget and slip back to the more negative self-talk, I invariably mess things up.   

Polly, please, just take that one small step of change.   

 Hi again!

Thanks Kwamina for explaining about CBT. I didn’t know about this technique and I’m going to try it today. I’ll keep you posted on the effects.

I’m familiar with mindfulness as I’ve practiced yoga and meditation on and off for the last 6 years or so (which is not to say that I’m good at it). It helps me to focus and to keep my mind relatively quiet .


Thanks so much Harri. Your encouragement has played a big part in my progress the past weeks. I’m so glad we can discuss these things here.


Wow, that is one major mind shift! Thank you for believing in me. I don’t know what to say.

It’s true that I found out ways of dealing with the abuse. So now I have to find ways of dealing with my “new” life. This insight is like morning mist evaporating.


Maybe this sounds weird but I’ve been reading this part of your post over and over since this morning and now I’m typing a reply I suddenly get it. I made it through the hardest part which was to survive the abuse. I suddenly feel I can do this. God I’m scared. I’m crying as I type this. When I’ve finished this post I’m gonna call my dad I think. I suddenly realise I’m in a safe place namely the present. The abuse is not happening anymore. It has stopped. It stopped on 24 January 2013, when I saw her for the last time in my life. My partner and my dad and my aunty and uncles and my best friends are there now. She’s out of my life. Yet I’m so scared of the things that will follow now. I’m afraid they’ll be just as difficult and I’ll be slow.


Yes, that helps, as you might have noticed  :). I can’t express how much you’ve helped me. Thank you so much.

On another note, do you ever wonder why these things happened to us? Do you think there’s some sort of spiritual function to them like learning self-love? Or do you think it’s just bad luck?

Love,

Polly

Hi Polly!  How are you? 

I am glad you find our conversation helpful and we are both helping the other to move through!  it is pretty wonderful isn't it? 

Did you have a chance to do the exercise Kwamina outlined for you?  If so, how did it go?  I really think you would benefit from CBT.  I can't remember if I already told you about a place online called MoodGym.  It is a free CBT class that is designed specifically for depression but is helpful for everything, including working through the distorted thought patters that Kwamina listed.  Anyway, the course is very good and best of all you can go at your own pace.  Here is a link (sign up is pretty easy): https://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome


Exactly Polly!  Crying is *good*.  You are feeling and not shutting down and I bet you were alone when you wrote this right?  Isn't that progress for you? 


Of course you are scared.  I would be more concerned if you were not scared.  That is normal.  Aren't you a bit excited too though?  What are the things you think will follow?  Write them down, either here or somewhere else and then use the list of distorted thoughts that Kwamina listed above and see if your thoughts are twisted.  (I bet if you tried you would be able to list a whole bunch of positive things that may happen too.)  Then you can do the following to untwist your thoughts:


Take each distorted thought and go through the list step by step.  It can be a bit tedious and sleep inducing  :) , but it does work wonderfully well in terms of helping slow down what I call the crazy train... .you get to pick your own name for it! 

Polly, we are all rooting for you and I think we all believe you can do this.  As far as i can see, you are the only one who doesn't completely believe that.  That's okay though.  You too will come to believe you can do this.  In the meantime, we can keep supporting you and encouraging you and if I need to I can nudge you along a bit  :), but soon, you will be nudging yourself along.  And please feel free to nudge me too.  I need it.


I've been thinking about this question since yesterday.  This may sound crazy but (!) I used to believe that I chose to be born into my family and I (my spirit) wanted/needed to experience certain things in this life.  I am not sure I believe that anymore though.  Or at least I am questioning my motives for believing that so easily.  I can't help but wonder now if I believed that because it fit so well with my refusing to be a victim. 

About learning self-love.  It seems to me there must be a boat load of more effective ways to learn self love that do not involve being abused and misused and violated in every way imaginable.  About bad luck.  Hmmm, I actually consider myself a very lucky person.  I really am in so many ways.  I am more apt to refer to luck of the draw.  I was dealt a hand of cards that are sort of sucky but I get to play them... .This is where I keep hearing "It is what it is".  I am not aware of feeling like I had bad luck even as a kid, but then again, I blocked out a lot of things so who knows what I thought back then!

I guess apart from what I said about my spiritual beliefs (which i am now questioning) I haven't spent a whole lot of time thinking about the why of it all.  I don't consider the life I have had so far as bad, but I know a large part of it was not good. 

I do know it is very important that my story counts for something, whether it is to help another who experienced similar or to serve as a wake up call for others ('Harri's Life:  A Cautionary Tale Involving Fruit Loop Parents, Defense Mechanisms and Poor Coping Skills'.  It seems it would be a terrible waste if nothing good came from it all.

What do you think about these things?

What do you think of this title Harri? --> Harri's healing: An inspiring tale of resilience, introspection and continued healing after many difficult years.

 :) :)  Kwamina!  That title is far kinder, gentler, and more positive than the one I picked isn't it?  Thank you for that and also for catching the negative self talk I still use to beat myself up!  Polly, for me, this right here is the magic and power of these boards.  People helping us to see us through different lenses. 

Thanks for the nudge Kwamina!  And thank you for not just seeing me but also seeing my potential.  You have made me cry, laugh and feel supported and accepted through this whole process.   

And back to you Polly! 

Hi again Harri and Kwamina,

I’m sorry it has taken me a while to reply to your posts… I thought I’d take it easy for a couple of days but as I noticed I got triggered more easily yesterday I realised I was just hiding or trying to shut down… So I’m back again now.

I tried the CBT and I found that, for the negative thoughts that popped into my mind, it worked rather well. One example was when I thought that I was not good enough for my partner. Fortunately I was still relatively calm so that I could examine the thought. It seemed to me this was All or none thinking, Disqualifying the positive, Jumping to conclusions, and Labelling and mislabelling. As a rational response, I said to myself: we’re not quarrelling right now and he’s never asked me to leave, so this mistake I made is probably not a big deal to him. – It might not be entirely positive but it helped me to calm down again.

As I encounter more automatic negative thoughts I’ll try and use the technique again. Thanks again Kwamina for the suggestion :)

I haven’t checked out the MoodGym yet but it’s on my list for this week. I’ll keep you posted.


Yes I was alone when I wrote that…and it was indeed progress to allow my emotions to surface. It was scary but apart from that nothing happened. I realised I was stronger than I thought.


Yes, I was excited and also happy in a strange way… I felt that it was possible for me to heal but I was also sad because of all the things that happened to me as a kid.

When I wrote my previous post, I was afraid that I’d get stuck in my progress again, like I did last summer. Things got so complicated between my partner and me and we nearly broke up. Yet I wasn’t able to stop self-harm back then. I just hated myself too much. I wasn’t ready to accept it wasn’t my fault.

I’m afraid something like that will happen again. Another way of getting stuck….like there’ll be something I’ll have to learn that I won’t be able to feel in my heart, so that I’ll hurt my partner again.

Taking this thought through the untwisting process the following things come up.

1. Identify The Distortion: Write down your negative thoughts so you can see which of the ten cognitive distortions you're involved in. This will make it easier to think about the problem in a more positive and realistic way. -> I guess this is a mental filter. What’s happened in the past will happen again. I don’t think I’m entirely open to the view that things could go okayish from now on.

2. Examine The Evidence: Instead of assuming that your negative thought is true, examine the actual evidence for it. For example, if you feel that you never do anything right, you could list several things you have done successfully. -> I can’t even do this because it’s about what would happen in the future. Which means that it wouldn’t necessarily have to happen.

3. The Double-Standard Method: Instead of putting yourself down in a harsh, condemning way, talk to yourself in the same compassionate way you would talk to a friend with a similar problem. -> I have a friend who’s bad at maths and I offered to explain some difficult chapters to her. So in my own case I’d say to myself that I have friends (right here on this board) who will help me to go through this without going crazy.

It’s interesting that I’m crying again as I type this. I do not usually see myself as my own friend. Actually I see myself as that annoying workmate who is always there just being annoying and who I’m trying to ignore, but then I realise I have to make her lunch or she’ll starve. I find this so bloody hard.

…After a couple of minutes I realise now that it’s the voice of my mother who hated me for being hungry or thirsty or needing the bathroom. Disgusting woman.   I’m so angry with her. I wish I could see her suffer right at this moment because she hasn’t seen me for 362 days and she’ll never see me again.

4. The Experimental Technique: Do an experiment to test the validity of your negative thought. For example, if during an episode of panic, you become terrified that you're about to die of a heart attack, you could jog or run up and down several flights of stairs. This will prove that your heart is healthy and strong. -> I’m not hurting my partner right now (‘cause he’s at work) so at least I’m not doing things wrong atm.

5. Thinking In Shades Of Grey: Although this method may sound drab, the effects can be illuminating. Instead of thinking about your problems in all-or-nothing extremes, evaluate things on a scale of 0 to 100. When things don't work out as well as you hoped, think about the experience as a partial success rather than a complete failure. See what you can learn from the situation. -> I guess I could see every day that I do not get into the complicated quarrelling discussion stuff with my partner as a partial success….in this way I’d see my life as some sort of gradual process instead of judging myself by each moment and then only picking the moments  when I’m doing badly. Gee I didn’t realise this before. It’ll need some time to settle in my mind and especially in my heart. 

6. The Survey Method: Ask people questions to find out if your thoughts and attitudes are realistic. For example, if you feel that public speaking anxiety is abnormal and shameful, ask several friends if they ever felt nervous before they gave a talk. -> I hope you don’t mind my asking, and if you do please don’t bother answering this question. But do you have any experiences with romantic relationships while trying to cope with self-harm and/or PTSD and/or being sexually abused as a kid? I find this stuff difficult if not impossible to discuss with my friends that aren’t on this board. I have one friend who knows I’ve been raped but she doesn’t know by who and when. My parents in law know pretty much everything though (I told them because I went to their place the morning after I got all those memories back again. My partner had to work and I was so afraid of being alone with the film in my head. So in a daze I told them what happened). And then, when I was still a mess after a couple of weeks they literally told me that I had to change because I wasn’t doing my partner any good at that moment. Needless to say that was no help in my situation.

7. Define Terms: When you label yourself 'inferior' or 'a fool' or 'a loser,' ask, "What is the definition of 'a fool'?" You will feel better when you realize that there is no such thing as 'a fool' or 'a loser.' -> I don’t know what label would apply to me in the worst case scenario. Someone who doesn’t love her partner enough? A mean person? A selfish person?

Most of all I’m afraid of becoming like my mother I guess… someone who only cares about themselves and not about the other. But maybe there’s more to it….I’ll give it some more thought.

8. The Semantic Method: Simply substitute language that is less colorful and emotionally loaded. This method is helpful for 'should statements.' Instead of telling yourself, "I shouldn't have made that mistake," you can say, "It would be better if I hadn't made that mistake." -> So, it would be better if I didn’t end up troubling my relationship as a result of my recovery process.

9. Re-attribution: Instead of automatically assuming that you are "bad" and blaming yourself entirely for a problem, think about the many factors that may have contributed to it. Focus on solving the problem instead of using up all your energy blaming yourself and feeling guilty. -> My mother is actually the major cause of the trouble I’m going through now. The thinking patterns and coping patterns created in my youth were influenced by her negativity and by her abuse of me. I’m not sure I can feel this in my heart just yet though.



10. Cost-Benefit Analysis: List the advantages and disadvantages of a feeling (like getting angry when your plane is late), a negative thought (like "No matter how hard I try, I always screw up", or a behavior pattern (like overeating and lying around in bed when you're depressed). You can also use the cost benefit analysis to modify a self-defeating belief such as, "I must always try to be perfect." -> The advantages of believing I will screw up my relationship with my PTSD are non-existent. The disadvantages are that I get stressed more easily as I see the worst case scenario in my mind. It also works as a trigger. It’s got me in a circle of fear and I hope to be able to escape this in time.

Thank you so much Harri for this suggestion. I didn’t find it sleep inducing  but very illuminating. It’s like a guideline for journal-writing. I’ve saved it in a document (I don’t have any fancy boards :) ) so that I can come back to it when I need to.


Yes, that’s definitely true. I’ve also been thinking about this and I find that I can’t think of a proper reason. I can’t think of any reason why we – or anyone else –  should be put through these things. I find that you and I were victims as kids. We didn’t choose to be abused. Nobody does. It’s just sad and now we’re grown up (and by that I mean now we’re dis-enmeshing ourselves physically and mentally) we have to deal with the stuff.

Harri, I can’t tell how much you’ve helped me so far. If that adds meaning to your life I’m glad it does.  I wish you a meaningful, happy life, and the title Kwamina suggested seems pretty good to me :)

Incidentally, does any of you know about techniques or tricks to minimise nightmares?

What kind of nightmares are you having Polly?

|iiii  Wonderful!  So now you have your very own proof that you can handle your emotions.  It gets easier over time Polly.  So even if you do get overwhelmed sometimes, know that you will be able to handle more and more as you get stronger.  I am so dang proud of you!   


~  you are not at the same place as you were last summer.  You have learned and you have changed.  Now when you start to spiral, you catch it quicker than before. 

And yes, you do have people right here on this board who are willing to support you.   


Good for you for recognizing that that is your mothers voice in your head telling you those lies.  And they are lies Polly. 

Have you had a chance to read and learn about projection and how it comes into play with pwBPD?


I took that quote from this thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70931.0  So those horrible things your mother would say to you and attributed to you are in actuality how she saw herself, it was just too painful for her to have those feelings about herself and so she projected them onto you.  Projection is crazy making for adults.  It is even worse for kids because we look to the adults to show us who we are and to learn how to interact with the world.  They are supposed to be our mirrors, letting us see how wonderful and precious and cherished we are.  Instead, parents with BPD use us as their waste bins for every toxic, shameful thought they have about themselves.  So, if they use us as a garbage bin for all their self loathing and hatred, we never get to see us.  We take those projections and internalize them.  It is hard to then see beyond those projections so I am so very happy you were able to recognize her voice in your head! 


Excellent insight here! 


I have had one romantic relationship in my life.  It was with another Non, though I go back and forth between thinking he is BPD or has traits.  We met in a support group several years ago and the relationship was about 7 years long (ended in 2009?).  I got involved with him about a year after moving away from my parents, so i was still pretty raw... .and naive.  So very naive.  It was not good Polly.  We had interlocking wounds.  When it was good it was very good, but it went bad all too often.  He pretty much had me painted as being BPD in the relationship and he was the poor poor Non who was just innocent and trying to help   and according to him, I abused him.   He had me cast as the evil BPD and him as the poor helpless victim.   

So anyway, I was right in the middle of the worst of the processing of my childhood.  We could talk about things and he would support me but it was on his terms and lord help me if I disagreed with his assessment.  He also used to use my problems and issues to hide his own really poor behaviors.  It all became very complex and it was basically a re-enactment of my relationship with my mother.  I still do not understand what a healthy relationship looks like.  What is the appropriate amount of sharing?  How much vulnerability am I allowed to show?  I don't think i was clingy or needy, but to him I was. 

So I am afraid I can't help you much here Polly.  The way my ex responded to me just made me dig my heels in more when it came to asking for help so I can't help you in terms of your partner.  I now wonder if I ever get in another relationship, and at this point I am not even open to the idea of a relationship, if he would even need to know my history.           I have not shared my entire story with anyone (except my ex) and i just don't see that happening (well, maybe in therapy).  I got the support I needed mostly from books, online boards like here and in therapy.  A couple of close friends know a bit of my history, but I do not really ask them for support.  What I will do is ask for reality checks or ask 'is this 'normal' type questions, but not much more than that.  Do you feel that your partner's family is against you?  Do you think they should be more supportive?

Polly, you are doing so very well.  I am glad you gave yourself a break *and* figured out when you needed to come back.  That right there is a whole lot of self-awareness.  Thank you for your kind words and for sharing so much of your story with me.  The latter part of that is the very best thank you, even no thanks are necessary. 

Hi Harri and Ziggiddy,

I’m having just about all kinds of nightmares about my mother. Sometimes I dream I’m back at my old home in which the sexual abuse took place. I dream I’m trying to escape from her and I’m screaming for help. Then I wake up from my own voice. Sometimes I have these horrible dreams in which I’m a grown woman and she still wants to sleep with me as she used to do when I had to go on holiday with her. Sometimes I dream I’m burying my old self which has no eyes or mouth.

So at night the recovery process continues. Sometimes I wake up more tired than I was when I went to sleep. Sometimes I sleep for more than 12 hours.


Thank you. Your support has helped me no end. I wouldn’t be where I am now without the help of the wonderful people on this board and especially the things we shared here.




I’m going to try to repeat this to myself every time one of those lies sneaks into my mind. I’m going to kill the part of her in me.

That thread on projection is interesting, thanks for pointing it out. Maybe I’ll post something there later on. I knew about projection and how it works but I never realised emotionally how her projections still got a grip on me.

My mother’s projections were basically all about self-loathing. I still don’t understand entirely how one can hate oneself that much and still want to continue living. Maybe it’s because she put all those feelings of self-hate in the garbage bin called Polly and that enabled her to love all the pretty things about herself (which weren’t there to anyone but her). I don’t understand why anyone would do that. I wonder if this emotional abuse has done me even more harm than the sexual abuse. The latter caused me to feel that my body wasn’t mine and it was disgusting. But the emotional abuse caused me to feel that I wasn’t allowed to be who I was. I don’t know which is worse.

When I was 12 or 13, my mother married one of many stepdads in a row. She married him because he was rich and she told me she wanted to kill him to get his money. She suddenly became a different person to me. She stopped giving me her time and attention. Around that time, I started self-harming. I always thought that it was because my worldview changed and that I realised I wasn’t important to her anymore. Now I think it was because I realised deep down that she didn’t love me at all and she didn’t love anyone else either. I think I started that habit because I felt that there was no love in my world.


I’m sorry that your ex treated you like this. If you don’t want to talk about it then please ignore this part… Please don’t apologise for not being able to help because you have helped me by sharing these things about your ex. It shows that it *is* difficult to obtain/maintain a (healthy) relationship with the baggage we have to carry with us.

I wonder why your ex would suggest you have BPD. Harri, you don’t come across as a pwBPD at all to me. You’re empathetic and you aren’t whimsical. Could it be projection on his part?

I’m sorry that your relationship mirrored your relationship with your mother. I understand why this would happen though. When I am triggered I tend to fall back into old patterns which I needed then to survive. The main pattern is that I feel that the other is against me and is angry with me and I’m doing things wrong. So I understand why you’d use your old patterns with your ex as well. And in a way it makes the more sense if he thought you were the “evil BPD”…

My MIL had a father with uBPD/uNPD and her brother has uBPD/uNPD as well. Having grown up with these people has had its influence on her of course. (She was in therapy for this years ago and the therapist recommended that she took this full-time therapy to regain a proper balance between self and kids and she refused because she wanted to stay with the kids.) She sometimes does things that are triggering to me, such as determining whether I’m ill and then determining whether I should go to work. She makes up her own truth about certain things. I don’t know why she does so. This also goes for mental illness. So when there’s a period when I’m triggered easily, I’m the one who’s bad because I don’t take proper care of my partner. Or when I’m having a hard time, she asks matter-of-factly how my therapy is going, asking for all sorts of details. She doesn’t understand that is embarrassing to me. If I tell them I don’t want to talk about it she’s offended.

Anyhow my partner’s parents aren’t against me (at least not anymore, but that’s a rather long story) and generally speaking they’re very friendly people whose view is a bit troubled sometimes. (I only wish they’d see how their meddling gives me more trouble sometimes but I know that isn’t going to happen :P ). Besides, I’m grateful they gave my partner a relatively untroubled youth and some excellent coping mechanisms. (They also planted in him the view that work is God and that’s the main reason why he studied medicine and why he suffered from burn-out and depression a couple of years before I met him.) So I have mixed feelings about them 


Thanks Harri. Your encouragement has done me so much good. I’m so glad I can share my story with you (and the other people on this board). When I first read you were also sexually abused by your mother I thought: what? I thought I was the only one in the world. Sharing our stories has helped me so much. I’m so glad we can help each other. 

Love,

Polly

Dreams are such a great source of semi conscious information. They turn into nightmares when there is information we just aren't processing.

I think it's significant that the you that you were burying had no eyes or mouth - isn't seen or listened to perhaps?

I also relate to the whispered hoarse voice - I had that nightmare repeatedly when I was a child.

It can be really useful to keep a dream diary even though it can be time consuming.

The problem with nightmares is that we don't articulate them. they can themselves traumatise us.

It is really really good to say them out loud. Something in the process of forming narrative for nightmares affects the limbic system and causes stress levels to drop.

many child abuse victims have been subject to awful things way before they learned to talk  Or were able to find words to fit the experience.

One way of offsetting this is the brain sends up stimulus to be processed during sleep cycles.

As an adult we have words that can describe our experiences even if they are inexact.

For some reason, disclosing and describing the nightmare as accurately and fully as possible has a brain altering effect.

It is the same effect analysts have found works with PTSD victims.

By describing a narrative and hearing that description your brain is able to process and file the memory and then it becomes possible for it to be integrated. No one knows why the brain/memory works this way but it does! I believe it has to do with the auditory cortex being linked with the occipital cortex.

Most data processing or rather synthesis happens in the occipital cortex - it is largely impacted by the visual cortex - ie what we see has a profound influence on what we think. Auditory cortex is wired in also with memory and limbic systems. This is why you can hear a song and it will provoke memories and feelings. Same with smells.

So you can see that the act of hearing vocalisation of your own voice has an outside impact on your processing equipment.

This is the main reason that 'talk therapy' works!

I'd recommend trying it on your nightmares Polly.

Hi Ziggiddy and thanks for your suggestion of keeping a dream diary. I might try it for a couple of days and see what it brings.


Yes I think that's significant too. I think the 'me' that was being buried was not listened to and maybe not even able to talk. The 'me' was also not able to see the world - I was not allowed to play outside as a kid.


I can relate to that. As a kid I didn't even know what sex was, let alone being involved in it without consent. This might explain why the only memory of the actual rape I have access to is about horrible pain and the fear of dying. I didn't and couldn't understand what the heck was happening. So it seems logical that the brain would try to process (and is still trying to process) this information without words.

Speaking of processing information  I took a long walk this afternoon and I suddenly felt that I wanted to write. Just to write down everything that happened to me in my youth. This is a difficult task and I won't be able to complete it in one sitting. But I just feel like I need to write down what happened so that I can look at it and say: this is the past. It's over and I managed to survive it.

Is there anyone else who has written down their traumatic memories? Thanks to the support of you guys on this board, I now feel like I can do this.  :)

Hello polly87,


Writing your experiences down can be very helpful. It helps in validating what you've been through and showing yourself that what you've been through actually occurred and was indeed abuse. I've done did too and called it "the real story of my family". It really helped me to see my experiences written down on paper like this. When it's just in your head it's sometimes very difficult to think clearly and you sometimes also doubt your own perceptions and memory. But when you've written it down and it's staring you in the face black on white, it's often possible to see things way more clearly which makes it easier to assess what really went on. It can also be quite confronting so be prepared for that and be mindful of your thoughts and emotions if you were to document these things. When I read things back it still amazes me that my 'sweet old mother' was the one who did such hurtful things to me. Of course I know she wasn't such a sweet old mother at all, but that was how she presented herself to the rest of the world.


I think emotional and psychological abuse underlies all other forms of abuse. Whether it be physical,sexual or verbal abuse, there's always also a strong level of underlying emotional and psychological abuse going on since all these forms of abuse have the potential to cause a lot of emotional and psychological damage.

With the projecting of her negative feelings onto you, it's may be easiest to recognize that this was emotional and psychological abuse. Harri has rightly pointed out to you that those projections are lies. That realization is the first step in being able to talk back to that negative voice you've internalized. What can really help is to keep reminding yourself that the things your mother said, most likely weren't a reflection of you you really are at all. Odds are that your mother's hurtful words and actions were indeed just a reflection of her own inner turmoil and negativity. Keeping this in mind can help you not let your mother's behavior and that negative internalized voice get to you too much. Easier said than done of course but I do believe that if you keep telling yourself these things, it can really help you talk back to the negativity. Applying cognitive behavior techniques can play a very valuable role here.

With sexual and/or physical abuse it might be more difficult to directly recognize the emotional and psychological abuse because we tend to focus on the physical or sexual aspects of abuse. But also with these forms of abuse there's a very significant emotional and psychological component to the abuse. The outer appearance of these forms of abuse might be sexual and/or physical but the damage done to a child is very much also on the emotional and psychological level.

Hi Polly!  How goes the writing?


Yep, I view dreams/nightmares as part of the recovery process too!  LOL  Too bad it is such a draining process.  Have you ever had a night where you are angry and throw punches in your sleep?  Beating up a pillow while sleeping is exhausting.   :)

I agree with Kwamina that the emotional component of abuse is what is the most damaging.  Whether it is accompanied by sexual or physical abuse does not matter so much except maybe with the degree of shame and self loathing that can occur.  Being denied a self or in my case not being allowed to fully develop a self separate from my mother is the worst of all.  Having to process the abuse without knowing who I am and what I am capable of dealing with seems to double the work. 

I haven't spent a whole lot of time studying what the experts say about the roots of self injury or self harming behaviors.  For me it is not just a way to numb the pain it also provides a means of safety and it gives me something more tangible to hate, as in I can see the pain and the damage.  Again though, I have not really studied it, so I could be off in my self-assessment here. 

I don't mind talking about my ex, though I feel a bit stupid/slow when I do as the relationship ended long ago and yet here I am finally looking at his part in the mess.  For some things the anger is still so intense.  How to explain to people that it is not that I am bitter or holding onto things but rather I am actually now, finally, looking at his role and how he contributed to the problems.  It seems to me that most people begin the process by looking at the ex and their role and then eventually come around to looking within.  I do the opposite and I find a lot of people don't get that.  I generally don't bother explaining it either as I just come off defensive, which to them, proves their point... .and then i get irritated and grumpy about it.  So I avoid!     I do appreciate your listening though so thank you.


It is challenging, yes.  The thing is, it is the way we deal with our baggage that will, in large part, determine how much of an impact it has on the relationship.  Hopefully there is a happy medium where both parties needs are taken into consideration and each is afforded compassion, understanding and respect.  What does your partner say?  Has he ever indicated that he is feeling drained or anything like that?

At first, when I was with my ex and I would hit a particularly rough patch, I would tell him I needed a few days break and would be staying at my place.  It happened several times and I thought I was doing the right, responsible and mature thing and I was... .for me.  My ex on the other hand would tell me I should just keep to myself and not tell him why... .just don't call, email or visit.  It took a few times for that to sink in as it is the opposite of what I want/need (I prefer to be told "Hey, I am taking a few days break.  No big deal just need some time, I will call in a few days".  So then, I would try not telling him like he asked and he would get upset and accuse me of giving him the silent treatment and getting angry with him, cutting loose and painting him black (aka I was being BPD).  As*hat!  Actually, the as*hat term applies to myself as well because I was trying to change me and who I was and what I needed to match his needs... .and then I got angry with him because I was not taking care of me!  CRAZY!  I still get angry though when i realize i was expected to change me for his needs but he made no effort to change for me.  Seeing myself try to change me and who I am/was for another is so typical.  I can see it though and I do understand my ex's frustration because I was not being honest with him about who I was... .I was trying to be who he wanted me to be.  My confusion is further increased when I remember he would get angry with me when I chose not to share about some new problem I was working on.  He would tell me I was closing myself off from him.  <sighs>

Okay, not sure why I went into all that but I did so I imagine I needed to get it off my chest. 

Again though, I feel my baggage is mine to deal with and manage.  I can't rely on another to support me.    I don't know if that is a healthy way to be or not.  I mentioned that I wonder how how much vulnerability is too much and this is where it comes into play.  Where is that line between being closed off and being open to someone I care for?  Can I talk about something for 5 minutes, an hour, 5 days?  Haha, I even get sick of rehashing this crap with myself and I hear myself saying "Oh lord, here we go again" but is that the punitive voice in my head or is it right?  Heck if I know, but I do get annoyed with myself.     I also wonder where the line between being vulnerable with a partner and being a clingy mass is?  Again, I haven't a clue.  One thing that also influences how much I share with people is the fact that most people can't relate.  The thing is, I am happy that they can't relate.   I don't want other people to have had the same experiences I had.  They hurt and do damage, so when someone can't relate I feel happy for them that they did not experience these things.

Errrrrrmmm... .I think I just overshared!  So, back to you!   :) 

It sounds like maybe, your partner's parents are not good people to share with?  Polly, if you don't want to share and she gets offended when you say that, so what?  If saying "I really don't want to talk about that" is offensive to her, let her be offended.  That is a poor boundary on her part.  That you can see how her past influences how she interacts with you is good.  It could be that because you have shared with her, she feels she has a right to ask you things or that it is her way to demonstrate concern for you.  so in terms of asking you about your therapy, make it clear you do not want to discuss it.  What can you say to yourself the next time she tries to tell you you are sick and can/can't go to work?  Or anything else?  She is not going to change, so the only thing you can do is limit your exposure or use the fact that you are triggered as a way to learn to deal with and manage the triggers so they have less of an impact on you.

Hi Kwamina and Harri,


That’s exactly why I want to try and write it all down… I used to be afraid of the emotions I’d feel when writing but I feel like my confidence has grown since I’m on this board.


The other night I had a nightmare in which I was literally talking back to her. I was in some sort of shop with her and she was calling me names and I shouted back at her that she was wrong. I suppose I’m starting to believe that I’m allowed to make my own judgements instead of being ‘forced’ to let her do the judging.

Harri, I haven’t actually started writing yet….I’ve been really busy ‘cause I finally found myself a paid job! (I’m not sure if that’s a good excuse but hey I’ll be able to work on my confidence in a new way now that I’ll actually get paid for something I’m moderately good at :) )


Ermm….nope, but I do get nights when I get so tired because of all those dreams that I’m more tired when I wake up than when I went to sleep  

I also get nights when I wake up from my own voice when I dream I’m screaming for help. I do know that I was afraid – the memory of my fear during the abuse only got back a couple of weeks ago. Before that I didn’t have access to that memory. So I suppose my mind is busy working that out.

I suppose I’m mostly afraid in my dreams and you’re mostly angry? Or maybe you’re having trouble expressing anger and I’m having trouble expressing fear? Correct me when I’m wrong. And I’m sorry that you’re feeling such (bottled-up) anger. I find it one of the most difficult emotions to deal with – ‘cause who is still there to be angry with besides yourself? And of course the point of recovery is *not* to get angry with yourself but with the abuser but that's easier said than done.


 

I think I know what you mean. I also wasn’t allowed to fully develop a separate self. I wasn’t allowed to feel sad, angry, stressed or depressed. Having one’s emotions controlled makes it very difficult to heal, because, well, how can one heal emotions that cannot be felt at first? I think I’m making progress on this point though thanks to discussions like this one.


Gee Harri I’m so sorry you also self-harm. But I totally understand. I’m not recommending it to anyone in any case but I’d like to share with you that – when other coping mechanisms fail –  I also use it to numb the pain and to punish myself for feeling whatever it is at that moment – shame, hate, anger, fear, sadness, being me…. I also want to be able to see the damage. I want to see that I’ve been harmed. It’s not only inside of me but it’s actually *there* for myself and other people to see (which they never seem to do).

I know that it’s very obvious that this is my inner critic on the loose, having just said that my mother wanted to control my emotions. Well I’m working on that, though not always succeeding…


You’re welcome :). I think we have a lot of things in common – I’m also often told I’m defensive and I also tend to look at myself before I even consider the possibility of someone else’s actions playing a part in my emotional turmoil. I know that in my case, I do so because I was always told I did things wrong, implying that the other person was right.


Yes he’s indicated a few times that it’s challenging and that my condition or whatever you may call it puts serious strains on our relationship. But it’s especially the self-harm that he finds really hard to deal with. The rest clearly tires him but he always says I can’t help it so it's ok with him.

However since I’ve been on this board, I’ve been able to reduce the pressure on him a little ‘cause I can share so much here. The relationship seems a bit more balanced now and I know that when there’s something coming up that I need to talk about, my partner’s not my single lifeline and that makes me feel a little more relaxed too. Not sharing *every* detail of *every*  trigger with him has been helpful. Among other things it’s taught me patience with myself when I get worked up about stuff. I also need to plan my board time between other things I have to do each day and that makes me feel it’s important to spend time on my recovery during the day and because of that I’m now able to spend more evenings relaxing and watching a film or chatting with my partner instead of endlessly discussing triggers and progress and so on.


Hang on, Harri, that doesn’t apply to you! You didn’t know how to be who you was/are and you were trying to match his needs because you were conditioned to do so when you were little.

When I was with my ex I also did the opposite of what I wanted. I felt like I was like his mum or something.


That’s not crazy, that’s what can be expected of someone in your case. You were taught not to take care of yourself but to depend on the bad version of ‘care’ that your parents gave you. So it’s no surprise that you didn’t tell your ex what you’d actually need ‘cause you weren’t used to getting what you need anyway.


That’s confusing indeed. It sounds like some sort of BPD trait. I suppose that’s the reason why he accused you of being a pwBPD but I can’t be sure on that of course.


I don’t know if it’s healthy but I think it’s very brave. In all other cases I’d recommend sharing this stuff with a friend or an aunty you’re close with or someone like that, but I know how hard it is. It’s good you’re sharing it here.


I learned some basic stuff about this in a hard way.  I used to believe that sharing everything equalled being totally honest, but you can be totally honest without sharing every detail about the healing process. It’s a trial and error thing trying to figure out where that line is between sharing too much or too little.


Yup, I’m afraid it’s your inner critic talking there. You’re very patient and gentle to me so I know you have it in you to be as patient and gentle to yourself. Your mind has been conditioned to do the opposite, because that happened to please your parents. (Which is not to say that I’ve silenced my inner critic yet…  )


Don’t worry about oversharing Harri. I’m interested in your story. I think I’m a clingy mass myself at times but, like you, I can’t be really sure.


Thanks for those suggestions. I never thought of it being an option that I don’t tell her how I feel. I usually make up some story about being on the way up or something because she believes that if your work hard you’ll get anywhere and if you don’t work hard you’re not worthy. I’ll try to actually voice my boundaries instead of just taking those questions as they come.

I tried to find out just what is so triggering about her response to me. During T yesterday, I realised that my MIL tries to control one´s physical state in a way that reminds me of how my mother used to control my emotional state. M(IL) makes up mind about sickness/happiness/etc. and son/daughter (in law) has to submit to that. I’m going to have to find some way of dealing with that tendency of my MIL but there are so many things to work on atm...  :)

Congratulations on the job Polly!  That is great news. 


You have worked hard to get to that place Polly so that too is great!  Your progress and strength is even showing up in your dreams! 

I think you are right about me being mostly angry, but I have no problem expressing my anger usually though I can sometimes struggle to hold it back, it is more that i buried so much of it regarding my father.  He was always this hazy, indistinct, mushy blob, especially when compared to my mother. It is interesting to me to note that now when I have a dream with my parents in it, usually they are standing off to the side and are silent.  So they are still present but at least they are not central and they are silent.  Working with you on this thread and on my own has made me realize that a lot of the anger I feel is directed more towards my father.  Much less of it is about my mother now.  When I think about it, it makes sense that I would still be processing anger because I had/have it all mis-directed.  Instead of being angry with my father, I was/am angry with myself.  I'm still trying to sort that out and I imagine it will take a bit of time.


I do not think it is very obvious... .identifying that inner critic is hard but here you are, doing it!  So you think your self injuring is also an expression of the feelings you were never allowed to have? Rather than it 'just' being a way to numb and see the damage caused by the abuse, it actually is an expression of your emotions?  Forgive me if that is exactly what you are saying here.  I am a bit slow this evening and there is some thought that is just right there at the edge of my mind... .I can't seem to grab hold of it though.  Anyway, can you see how you no longer need to express your feelings that way and that your fear of allowing yourself to feel your emotions has lessened considerably?  Can you see a time in the future where you will no longer need to self harm as a way to numb, avoid or even express your feelings?

You mentioned that you want others to see your pain but they never do.  Why do you think it is important for others to see it?  If someone did see, what would you want from them?

BTW, do you have trouble identifying emotions?  I do and in another thread, a board member named Woolspinner talked about a feelings wheel.  I googled it and came across several different ones and I think it is going to be helpful to me.  I wonder if you might want to take a look?  here is a link to one:  www.thefeelingwheel.com  Sometimes i just don't know what to call a particular feeling or I wonder what the root feeling is.  This seems to be a pretty good way of figuring out such things.

I think you are right about not sharing every single detail and still being honest and open.  This board really is helpful in terms of it being a release.  Having an alternative life line is a great way to phrase it.   :)  As you develop even more confidence and build trust in yourself to handle your emotions I am sure you will see even more balance in the relationship.  In the meantime, things are improving and you are aware so that is all good stuff.

I understand what you are saying about me not knowing how to behave any differently with my ex.  and I appreciate your generous assessment.  It is true that was all I knew but I can see how I did make mistakes and caused some problems in the relationship.  It was not all him and I hope i did not make it out that way (tho I still think he is an as*hat... .I alternate between feeling affection and compassion and calling him names   )  No matter how I look at it, the fact is I was not honest with him about who I was.  I did not do it intentionally, but it does not change the fact that I was not being my genuine self.  That I can say the same about him only takes me so far.  The truth is, as non's with uBPD mother's we both had BPD traits.  There was a power imbalance though.  He was always in the one up position.  He needed to be there and I just naturally took the more submissive role... .until I lost my temper or tried to push back. <sighs>  Interlocking wounds... .does not work well when things get rough in a relationship.


You'e welcome.  You don't have to tell anybody anything, though now, if you were to tell her that things are looking up and you are on your way... .it is not really making up a story now is it?  both of those things are true now Polly!   |iiii  :)


  :)  Pretty funny we have so many options isn't it!   :)    I can see where her behavior is a means to control and why it would trigger you.  How about telling her you are perfectly capable of deciding when you should and should not work?  Start it with a "thanks, but" and say it with a smile.  You do not need to submit to her need to control, though i know you know that!

Hi polly87,


Many things indeed  This was your first thread here. It has been way more than just an introduction to the community, we've discussed many important issues here that are also relevant for many other members. So thanks again for your courage of sharing your story here |iiii

At this point I want to encourage you to perhaps start some new threads in which you further explore the main issues you're facing now. This will allow you to focus more on one specific issue at a time. I've identified several topics in this thread that you perhaps would like to explore further in new separate threads such as the inner critic, emotional flashbacks, various forms of abuse and the underlying emotional abuse, nightmares, relationships and boundaries to name a few.

I hope to read more of you on this forum and encourage you to focus on certain issues one at a time in new threads. This introductory thread of you has been awesome. I realize how painful your experiences have been and how difficult and quite possibly scary it might have been to open up here. I am glad you did though and I hope this has been helpful for you. See you around Polly87!

PS. My avatar is a parrot and I've been fighting the urge to say this but I can't anymore so: Polly want a cracker? :)

Hi Harri and Kwamina,

Thanks Harri, I’m so happy I’ve finally got a job! I’ve noticed that while it’s been an exhausting first week it’s also given me confidence and that’s good :)


I so know what you mean. I feel the same with the anger that’s actually directed at my mother but then I direct it at myself. I think both of us have to remind ourselves often that *we* did nothing wrong. Our parents did us wrong. We are allowed to be angry with them now and we aren´t to blame.




Yes, that’s what I meant. It is a twisted way of expressing those emotions, especially anger, guilt and shame. Maybe I actually want to *see* that I do have emotions that have to be expressed. Also, I use it as a means to say that I’m ashamed when I’m unable to say the words (because of the shame).


Yes I’m not as afraid as I used to be to feel my emotions and I’m so relieved that this is actually possible in my life. I hope there’ll be a day in the future when I’ll have kicked the habit…In fact, every time it happens I think: well, I’ll make this the last time… but maybe that’s too optimistic and bound to disappoint…


In some strange way I would like others to ask: what the heck happened to you? And I’d answer: well, I got ptsd because I was abused as a kid, hence the self-harm.

Of course, this isn’t a conversation that’ll ever take place with me being the second speaker. But in a way I’d like to tell people that *it isn’t easy to have survived this stuff *and that *yes, sexual abuse actually happens in the world*. Now that I’m considering this, I wonder if I should pretend to be okay less often… you know when you meet a couple of friends and they say: hi there, how are ya? And you’re like: well I’ve been feeling like ___ and you actually say: oh I’m kind of okay these days…

So I think it'd be important for others to see because I don't always feel they understand how I feel, but then as you rightly pointed out I'm not sure whether I'd want them to be able to relate.


Haha yes it is! But as Kwamina points out it’d be good to open some new threads for them :)

Thanks Kwamina for your encouraging words. I think it's a good idea to work on those issues one at a time in separate threads. There’s so much to learn atm and I find I have to limit myself to the most urgent and/or interesting issues. The ones you mention (the inner critic, emotional flashbacks, various forms of abuse and the underlying emotional abuse, nightmares, relationships and boundaries) are indeed the ones that I want to work on now. Maybe nightmares are kind of urgent – I could do with a peaceful night for a change .

Thanks so much to everyone who posted here and/or read this thread and especially to Harri, Kwamina and Ziggiddy.

You guys can’t imagine how much you’ve helped me by your encouragement, sharing your story or just being there and reading this (I saw loads of people have read this and that’s also helped me).

Love and best wishes to all   

PS.


Hahaha  lol, to that I can only say: maybe I would like some food  :)

*mod*

This thread is being locked because it has reached its post limit. There is a lot of worthwhile discussion here. Please feel free to start a new thread (or threads) to explore things further.  |iiii