Print Page - L3 Self protection question for L5,

My relationship with my ex GF has been typical of what you read all over this site, lying, cheating, manipulation, all in true BPD fashion. Spending months reading here I not only learned a lot about this disorder and what I went through but I also learned a fair amount about myself, I have codependent enabling traits and I have worked a lot on that, I always want to fix things and give more of myself in all areas, so much so in this relationship there was not much left of me in the end almost 6 months ago, we went back and forth in emails until 22 days ago when I went NC, I am healing and working on myself and I have my own T that I work with in doing that and everything is going well, getting stronger I know I will not tolerate this behaviour any more because of how it affects me but even though I am detaching I know I can still be weak for her in one area that I need to shore up for myself just in case. My weakness would be if she made a re-engagement attempt on the guise of her realising a problem and wanting therapy what would be the best way to tell if there was any sincerity in that or if it was just another manipulation tool? I know forgetting about her and moving on is the best but I admit that is still a little hard for me to do and I need to protect myself from being manipulated again. Due to the length of our relationship and knowing it was meaningful to her I think she may try that. Any good advice in this situation would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

I'm really trying to get this question right so please bear with me, I totally believe her feelings for me are there, out of anybody in your life I have been around the longest, she keeps saying that she wants to have a committed relationship and be married, I do not think she understands that the reason she is not married is because of her, I am convinced that if I had married her in the first year when everything was good the relationship probably would have been shorter, The more I learn about this disorder The more sense it makes to me, I guess it would be more about my boundaries? IM the fixer type and I do love and care about her even still, but that does not mean I should put up with her tranpeling my boundaries, she has too many men in her Safetynet and always adds to it, I do not think she understands nobody is going to marry into that type of situation, so I guess my idea of 100% sincerity and commitment to therapy would have to mean cutting away the safety net and letting it go so that there is no distractions on her side for what I would be committing myself to. It would really have to be just her and I and both learning together in therapy how to deal with these issues and when there is upset she would contact the therapist or family instead of some other guy from a dating site or a new. " friend" . I do not think that is too much to ask if I have to do what I would have to do in order to make it work. So I guess my question would be more on the lines of getting my boundaries met would it not? I do have a lot of patience to deal with anxiety and her temper tantrums, she actually has mentioned how well I do with that in talking her back down from them. She has thanked me for that many times, what I cannot deal with is her defence mechanism to triangulate with somebody else, there is no commitment there, to me that is breaking a commitment. Quite some time ago I did try explaining this to her but of course everything was my fault, so she does know how I feel about that situation and could possibly just use that as a manipulation to get me back while she looks for somebody else again. The sincerity of her feelings towards me are not what I question it would be the sincerity of her realising she has a problem and wanting to fix it. The way I am taking it from learning about this disorder is A lot of the hateful things she says and does to me is in part because she actually loves me and has feelings for me, as stupid as that sounds it seems to be true but correct me if I am wrong there? That does not mean she should be excused for them, it means that is what needs to be corrected because being in love and having these feelings makes her do these things. I'm sorry for the long post but if she does try to reengage me and I could not be of help I would rather stay away and not be an enabler of her problem. Kind of hard disorder to figure out is in it? I'm trying.

Thank you Formflier,

I would only be interested in getting my boundaries met in the event that this relationship meant enough to her that she wants to get the proper help for herself In order to get the relationship back, I am not patting myself on the back here and saying that I am the most special guy in the world but I am special enough to myself and like to have all bases covered, I am not expecting that her losing me is going to make her want to change but there is no harm in me preparing for it just in case! I would need to have the boundary met that I explained when it comes to other men. Here is the reason why, she does have one friend that is a guy and he does not bother me in the least, they could talk on the phone all day and I would not care, my boundary starts when she wants to go to dinner or a movie with him without me because I find it inappropriate in a committed relationship, all of her other " friends" are guys that she either met on a dating site or hit on her by writing their phone number down on a piece of paper! I am smart enough to be able to tell the difference, her so-called. " Friends " are nothing more then guys with sexual desires tward her and they need to be eliminated totally because of her level of impulsivity! Her impulsivity plays a major role in her her disorder, some traits of the disorder are more exaggerated than others in different circumstances and this is a exaggerated one for her, just like you know you are not going to hold a AA meeting at a bar, she is not going to get the proper help by feeding back attention to all these men, she will not be able to focus on herself. I mainly need this one boundary met to start off with in the event something happens not because I am overly jealous but more because it would take her focus off of getting better. And To add to that A relationship to me is about reciprocation as well as love and trust, therefore if I am going to take on A personality disorder with the true intention of making things better I feel that should be reciprocated by removing my concerns on this matter to say the least, The reason why is because of how much focus it would take off of me trying to deal with her issues with her and being able to do it in a supportive loving manner because I would have to spend too much time focusing on policing her true intentions with these " Friends " which would Create too much stress for me to be able to focus on what I would need to do on my end as a non which is probably going to be just as much if not more work than she is going to have to do! I know I could take on the world But she does not have to add the solar system to it.

In answer to your rephrase, from what I have experienced in this relationship I will not be assured that my boundaries have been met if there is continued contact and interaction in the manner she has shown me so far with the people she associates with, all of her interactions and contact is a double standard as well because she has made it very clear she would not accept it from me, One fault of mine in the relationship is I accepted it because I knew she had a problem and was hoping for a better day, I guess I was trying to show love and tolerance because I had no knowledge of the disorder at the time and thought it would work not knowing that it was as enabling as Handing out vodka shots at a AA meeting, I could not be assured that my boundaries will be met short of having all these people removed from her social media as well as her phone and change her phone number so they cannot contact her either so we could together focus on the issues at hand, part of me says that is too much to ask because it is controlling and the other part of me says what I am willing to do for her and take on that I really do not need to that's the least she could do! In this situation do you think that is just being controlling or is it being concerned and determined for positive results? I know to her it is just going to be considered controlling and I understand why she would perceive it that way and if you explain to somebody that does not know she has this problem and this is what I want they would see it the same way, but I think when you are in it and realise the whole picture of the dynamic that is exactly what she needs, Where am I wrong?

Quote from: Targeted on December 29, 2014, 03:18:01 PM

so I guess my idea of 100% sincerity and commitment to therapy would have to mean cutting away the safety net and letting it go so that there is no distractions on her side for what I would be committing myself to. It would really have to be just her and I and both learning together in therapy how to deal with these issues and when there is upset she would contact the therapist or family instead of some other guy from a dating site or a new. " friend" . I do not think that is too much to ask if I have to do what I would have to do in order to make it work.

The problem is a chicken and egg one, she needs to let go of her "safety net" of back up options to commit to anything, including therapy, but she needs therapy to understand and overcome the insecurity that is causing her to hold on to "options'.

It is the old problem with BPD and why it is hard to treat. The very condition itself makes them struggle to stay commited wholly to therapy, or anything. This why many DBT type courses need a degree of pre therapy first, otherwise they just quit as they wont let go of their previous "comfort blankets".

thank you Formflier!

I did admit to fault in my last post about my fault in the relationship with accepting her behavior and hoping it gets better understanding she has a problem, looking in the mirror I see where my fault was, but when you are a non without the knowledge I have now the right thing to do just seems to be to forgive, whoever thought that you had to be able to speak a different language and speak it backwards and understand it sideways to have a relationship? not to mention be able to reverse that and interpret it when being spoken to? I accept my failure in this relationship but I do not feel bad about it because it is not normal, I believe there is a very very very small percentage of people that would be able and willing to deal with this in a relationship and I know I am one of them, I have dealt with my codependent traits of always putting somebody else first and even though I am NOT perfect in that area I understand what I need to do. this is totally a codependent enabling BPD relationship and the only dynamic that has changed is the co dependent being me is the only one that realizes something has to change, I am NOT in the vindictive I have been totally abused mode but I do vent once in awhile, you are right that the boundaries not holding and being trampled on is my fault, there is no way that I could have asked you whether or not she will ever comply because you do not know her, I am really just hoping somebody out there knows what it looks like when they are ready to comply? I want to put all my effort in taking on the world with her but I am too bruised to take another punch,

Thank you waverider,

I totally accept my fault in this relationship about the lack of enforcing my boundaries, my relationship boundaries are pretty basic and I believe in a normal relationship they would not even need to be spoken about or enforced because they should be just understood as keys to a healthy relationship, specially the big ones such as cheating and how you conduct yourself with and around members of the opposite sex, we spoke about these things before and in the beginning of the relationship and she was on the same page, as a matter of fact she magnified these and mirrored them back to me which gave me more assurance I had something real here, I had no idea that I was just being mirrored by someone who magnifies their thoughts and feelings at the time because honestly I did not even know these disorders existed outside of hearing the word Narcissist in the movies and knowing that meant someone who was all about themselves and very mean, so I guess being naive is my fault as well as forgiving for boundary breaking instead of enforcing my boundaries. I did have them I just never enforced them. I do not choose to beat myself up over it because it does no good and does not fix anything for anybody including myself, I am here to share what I do now now and continue to learn, right now I am not trying to win her back or try to fix her, I just want all the knowledge that I can get so I can be helpful to the situation if she tries to reengage me for a relationship which I think she may because we are undoubtedly special to one another, if my helping her means I need to stay away and let her figure it out on Her own then that's what I will do! It would be sad to hear That she just wants to continue her destructive cycle but that would not be my fault because it would be her choice, But if my helping her should eventually come to holding her hand and giving her support in therapy and that becomes her choice instead? I would like to know how to do that to the best of my ability, I have already resigned to the fact that going back to trying to just Love a untreated pwBPD Will never work and neither will just regular couples counselling, we already tried that, i'm sure you know what happened, BPD Ruled the session and everything was my fault. Right now I only have one boundary for her, this boundary will never be broken. The boundary is that I do not wish to have any contact with her at all unless she is serious about getting better in therapy!

What is for the first time in her life she adheres to a boundary and that is that one?

Targeted , I am in the same position as you are , I had no idea how this illness works, after 4 months of learning keeping low contact , I came to realize that the best way to get over or getting another chance at it , is to feed my knowledge as much as I can to be prepared for any reconciliation in the future , I am in contact with her ,looks to me that she has realized that I am truthful with her ,she might have discovered that triangeling from a long distance isn't the same with male friends from her home city , where she is right now it changes when she is in person with them, they did not know what issues she has when talking to them from a long distance , now in person I have a feeling she had come to term that those friends won't be there for her at " 3 am" like she always said she is broke no one seems to help her . They are busy with their own life . But to say she does not know that triangeling was a major cause of the B/U, until then we will see ! At this time I don't really know yet .

Triangeling is dangerous, especially when most of the conversation is painting you black , have you ever notice after she get's off the phone after hours and when trying to reengage with you, looking kind of distorted thinking

taking her a little while to adjust talking to you ?

I think this outside sources in a non R/S puts a heavy birding on the RS imagine what kind of destruction that causes in a R/S with BPD ?

Part of the problem is that she is very good looking and lots of guys want to get to know her, I think that is normal but when you are in a committed relationship it is not normal to be giving out your phone number to these people and having conversations with them, maybe I have it wrong but entertaining conversation and having them all over your social media when at least one party has interest is very damaging to a committed relationship, I believe that even if there is only interest on the other side then The conversations will only turn to getting rid of me when she vents about her problems to these people instead of fixing our issue, it is definitely triangulating to me and I do not think my mind will change on that. I could accept having a friend or two of the opposite sex if the interactions were appropriate for being in a committed relationship but not having a ocean full of men as a safety net. That's probably why she has never had a long-term relationship.

Quote from: Targeted on January 05, 2015, 04:18:18 AM

Bottom line is that this is the reality, you are not likely to change it. So will your values and boundaries allow that. Some choices are hard, but ultimately we have to make them, not just drag out the same old same old

I have mentioned my concerns on this during the relationship, my concerns were met with every excuse in the book, we are not married, we not together often enough and you leave me alone, I cant be alone, and so on! I think it is hard to put together a relationship where there are children involved on both sides and it takes time, she just wants to be married right away. I tried explaining to her that I do love her enough to marry her but just getting married right away is a bad idea because it is a hasty decision and we should have other things figured out first such as a plan for all the children to get to school where they go in different towns and other normal things that need to be ironed out before merging two families, I explain to her how serious marriage is to me and we will get there what it is going to be done correctly, she got married right away her last two marriages football failed within a year and I do not want to fail, I told her not to worry because she has me and I am not going anywhere but she never allowed us to focus on what we needed to do because I was too busy constantly trying to cut away her safety net of men, maybe that's just the way it is today and it's me but if that's the way relationships go today then I don't want one, at the very end she wanted me to come up with the kids and I did not get home from work to my children until 7 PM and they would still have to get ready and I would have to get cleaned up after work and it was a holiday weekend so with traffic it would have ben about a one and a half to two hour drive with traffic, I told her me and the kids are going to go to bed because we will not get up there till very late anyways and I will see you first thing in the morning, she responded with, Fine i'm going out with " guys name " so don't bother, I could not take any more after that and never went back, months of arguing in emails followed until December 1 when I stopped responding and just told her I hope the new guy works out and he likes men as much as you do, probably the wrong thing to say but I was frustrated. She has emailed a couple of times since December 1 that I am not responded to but she does know that I want her to get help for herself, I had to chase this relationship the whole time and I do not feel I should be the one that has to reach out right now, I am remaining NC, I am not going to respond to a stupid email that just says Merry Christmas followed by a condescending remark, she may get a response out of me if she contacted me somehow with sincerity, Reading a lot of threads here I see there is A good majority that try to reconnect, I really do care about this person and it is painful for me to stay in NC but it's better than playing the BPD bickering games, if she did reach out at some point that will cause a response from me I know what is not going to be by a stupid childish game, by sincerity I mean like I'm sure a lot have heard, I miss you, I love you, I want to try again, the only problem is at this point I would only take that at face value and deeply question the sincerity. Bottom line is that if a window opens for me to respond and steer her towards getting help I do not know at that window looks like or how to effectively communicate it without it just being turnaround on me because it is such a delicate subject. The when, the if I should, the how, the will she ever even reach out are all in question here, My intention of wanting her to get help and not wanting to be a part of the problem any more is not.

Good thorough responses... .I appreciate the time you have put into them. Please realize when I'm writing back that the responses are for you... .and they also are for everyone else reading... . This post may help them move forward or otherwise solve a problem they have been having in their relationship.

Quote from: Targeted on January 05, 2015, 09:31:10 AM

I have mentioned my concerns

When dealing with pwBPD traits... ."mentioning" things is usually not a good strategy.

Better strategy is to use validation and other tools to "calm" the overall r/s. Then... .when the pwBPD is having a good day... .and can focus on a conversation... .clearly state your values... .or clearly state the "issue" in a positive way. Positive way means you say... ."I would like to do this... ." a negative way is a usual BPD trait "tactic"... .don't do this... .don't do that... .and you rarely get to hear them say what they want you do to.

Quote from: Targeted on January 05, 2015, 09:31:10 AM

explaining to her that I do love her enough to marry her

Any time you feel like you need to "explain" someting to a pwBPD traits... .think through if JADE applies. Sometimes you have to explain things... .much better to clearly state your values... .and clearly state the choice you want to make. If after explaining... .stating... .whatever... .they want to "debate" your values. I recommend not doing that. That is one step away from an argument... .and dysregulation.

Quote from: Targeted on January 05, 2015, 09:31:10 AM

I was too busy constantly trying to cut away her safety net of men, maybe that's just the way it is today and it's me but if that's the way relationships go today then I don't want one,

Sounds like a clear choice of values from you... .nice work!

Quote from: Targeted on January 05, 2015, 09:31:10 AM

I am remaining NC, I am not going to respond to a stupid email that just says Merry Christmas followed by a condescending remark, she may get a response out of me if she contacted me somehow with sincerity, Reading a lot of threads here I see there is A good majority that try to reconnect, I really do care about this person and it is painful for me to stay in NC but it's better than playing the BPD bickering games, i

IMO... .good analysis of the situation.

Hypothetically speaking, if she did reach out to me in such a way someday that I feel she deserves a response? because you have to speak so unnaturally different to her, in order to be effective, what would be the best way to convey to her, ( I will just say it bluntly here ). What would be the best way to tell her I think there is help she can benefit from for emotional issues and I would be willing to go through that with her and emotionally support her and stay by her side but I at least need all these men gone! I know it sounds controlling trying to tell somebody who they can and cannot interact with but anybody else on the outside looking in I believe Who would want a normal loving relationship with a woman would not be able to accept this either. Oddly enough it makes me second-guess whether my values on this matter are too controlling or just healthy! But I do know how being in a relationship with all of that going on makes me feel, it does not make me feel happy and healthy.

Quote from: Targeted on January 05, 2015, 10:54:47 AM

Ok, did I jade here? I am remembering One of our conversations on the subject and it kind of went like this, She was concerned That I was in this relationship with out the intention of going long term and eventually getting married, I assured her that I loved her and want to be with her for the rest of my life but she makes me uncomfortable with her interactions with other men and I would like to keep working on this relationship but because other men have constantly been a topic of argument at least every 1-3 months I would need to see some time go by without this being a issue before I could be comfortable enough to take the next step, it is okay if you tell me that I did JADE there but I really do not know any other way in order to get my point across, how could you possibly tell somebody this without jading? What could I have said differently?

Good question... .I think what you were really asking for was several months of "emotional stability" in the r/s. Is that correct.

To avoid "jadeing"... .somtimes it is better to not explain "the exact thing"... .but take a step back and express your values to the other person... .ask for them to explain their values back. Again... .don't try to tie the to that "exact thing". That part comes later.

What you may find is that both of your value systems are quite different... .and if a mutual agreement can't be found on how to move forward with different value systems... .well... .some decisions should most likely be made.

I would challenge you to think about the value system you were trying to express why saying you needed a few months without argument... .

See how you can write that out here... .

Quote from: Targeted on January 05, 2015, 11:13:55 AM

To directly answer the question... .the best way to say that to her is as clearly and directly as possible.

I would like to be with you... .but only if there are no other men. (this assumes this accurately portrays your situation... your value).

The key is that you feel that you have accurately and honestly portrayed "your side"... your values... .you have put the ball in her court... .and now the issue is out of your control.

She may not respond... .(you have your answer)... .she may respond... .at which point we can all discuss it here... .and see what the next move should be to help you live out your values and see if they are compatible with what she is offering.

How does this sound?

Thank You for your reply Grey Kitty,

Just to clarify, I do not want to chase after her and convince her to change. I have a feeling she will try to reengage me at some point and I definitely do not except the flirting behaviour and being in involved with other men, basically no! I do not except her The way she is in this regard at all. If she never reaches out to me I will never have to deal with this and I'll be fine with that, but I know myself and I have a weak spot for her and should she try in and reengage I do not want to settle for a recycle! I would rather be alone! She cries that she wants to be married and have a normal relationship but because of her illness she does everything to prevent that. Maybe there is some guy out there for her that does not mind being one out of many but is it not me. I feel like I have basically two options here should she tried to reengage me, please keep in mind I am not looking for it, I could either take the stance that she is no good and a flirting cheater and discard her should she make a effort to speak to me again or I can take the stance that this is someone I care about very much that has a serious problem and at least try to lead the horse to the water, whatever would happen after that if the horse decided to drink the water does not even need thought at this moment, I am not trying to win her back, just trying to figure out what to do to be helpful to both parties if she should try to come back, just being discarded is hurtful, I know because it happened to me, I do not like to treat people that way, if she tried to reengage me again for some reason I would only like to find something helpful to say, even though she has hurt me very deeply she is still a human being with a problem.

Targeted, why does it matter if you reengage with her because you chase her or because she chases you?

You are still resuming a romantic relationship with her... .or not.

If you cannot handle a romantic relationship with someone as flirtatious and needing of male attention as she is, that's the same, either way.

Quote from: Targeted on January 05, 2015, 12:43:30 PM

I could either take the stance that she is no good and a flirting cheater and discard her should she make a effort to speak to me again or I can take the stance that this is someone I care about very much that has a serious problem... .

I don't like framing your choice that way. They are both involve a judgement of who she is and what sort of character she has.

Instead I'd look at her behavior, and what it does to you.

Can YOU live with a girlfriend whose behavior is to flirt with other guys?

Can YOU live with a girlfriend whose behavior is to threaten to cheat with other guys?

Can YOU live with a girlfriend whose behavior is to cheat with other guys?

How much will it cost YOU to put up with that behavior? My tolerance level may be different than yours. How much it bugs me may be different than you too.

Why she does it or what drives her to do it won't have much impact on how you feel when she does it.

Well, I also do not feel that the relationship would work without doing some work on herself, even if you were to manage Setting my boundary as it pertains to other men and have that adhered to, The fear of abandonment is still there, when we were at our best is when things turn for the worst, from what I have read here engulfment is also a problem for her and I have witnessed that, paranoia that there is a secret sex ring at just about every public facility, as well as anxiety to be dealt with that she at least has a diagnosis for, when we did go through couples counselling none of this reached the table, so many other things as well, I do feel like I have the right to talk to her about these things because we have been in each others lives for 10 years and I know her stories, I have met her parents, I know her history, and I know her intimately, what would be the point Setting a boundary that there be no other men and entertain continuing the relationship without wanting to address the underlying issues that have the safety net there in the first place? I'm sure she could get rid of the safety net in order to get back together, but without the underlying issues being worked on as well it would only return, I have already been through that, it would be like having A beautiful car with a Oil leak, you're going to have to constantly feed it oil, without fixing the leak it is only going to get worse but you are still going to have Beautiful car with a defect, Oil is the heart of the preservation of the longevity of the engine, why would you not try to fix a oil leak when it is only going to get worse and One day you will run out of oil and blow the engine and be left with nothing? You could've prevented it because you knew about the leak and did not address it, The fault is back on me! I know it is just a analogy And a relationship such as this would never be an easy one, I would have to accept a lot of things and have to learn to communicate a totally different way because of her emotional needs but I cannot do that by myself, there would be so much more that I would have to do as well and I would be willing to learn and change what I need to on my end in order to accept my beautiful car May always have a oil leak but together we slowed it down enough so we never lose the engine that drives us where we need to go. Successful relationship with a untreated cluster B? I read right on the staying board people that are getting the help they need are still struggling, couples that do not have cheating as a problem in their relationship are failing! I do not want to fail Myself, I do not want to fail my children, and I do not want to fail somebody that I love, that's why it is important to me to mention that she has emotional issues that need to be dealt with, I feel as though our relationship and its longevity has earned me the right to be able to speak about it and be honest about what I see, if I am wrong please feel free to correct me because IM open to and love constructive criticism, this was not a one year interaction, I know for the both of us it does almost hold the weight of A marriage emotionally.

Quote from: Grey Kitty on January 05, 2015, 02:34:36 PM

Quote from: Targeted on January 05, 2015, 12:43:30 PM

You are not wrong here, your points are actually very good, and no I cannot tolerate a cheating flirting girlfriend, I am in no contact with her because of that, i'm sorry you did not like my framing my choice that way but we are basically texting here and I have spent 10 years of my life knowing this woman, I am one who sees the good in everybody, I could choose to just see the bad in her but I do not want to, she may never change or want to but that is fine, it is only going to work one way for me and I accept that. I just know are very deeply and intimately and due to the circumstances of our relationship I feel she is going to want to come back to me because I have been better to her then anybody in the past 20 years of her life including a millionaire in her own words, there were certain instances during our relationship that I know were truthful and not mirroring, in hindsight I can now see the difference, like when I was just cooking dinner we were already having a good day she broke down crying so happy because she said I made her house feel like a home, there is more, somethings are questionable but some things are also indisputable! I understand she is a mixed bag of emotions and this whole situation is a nightmare but I only want to know what to do if she re-engages me to have success, I know all the downfalls of the relationship, my home board is the leaving board, your points are all very valid and I feel them, you are not wrong, but I know she is a beautiful human being Who S-bend severely damaged by life and if I could find something that helps I will do that, if I cant I will accept that

It is possible she changes for her own reasons.

It is possible that being with you provides the security to no longer need outside validation,and so shifts her focus.

The problem is that she is not going to make a genuine change as deliberate condition to get back with you. It is too big a change to be made suddenly.

pwBPD can suddenly change of their own accord, but that doesn't mean they are "fixed" of their issues, it is often just a refocusiing of their obsession/needs and not always onto something healthy. Think of it as a fad that has run its course.

This is what GK is alluding to, she is not going to come to your terms willingly and with lasting commitment. You would have to take her as she is, this phase may pass or it may not. It is up to you to decide if you can accept her wherever she is at, and consolidate it from there.

Even iif she is in the right place, there is a good chance she wont stay there forever, as that is the nature of BPD

Quote from: waverider on January 05, 2015, 04:27:55 PM

Thank you so much for your input, I actually do understand all of this. And Everybody's input is equally respected whether it seems that you are align with my beliefs or you are playing my devils advocate, even if you are neutral on the subject. If my response Is less than you would expect because you are in a different place than me that does not mean I did not value what you said, everything helps, I am soaking it all in, The only way it works for a individual in their own situation I believe is to take what you want and feel applies and leave the rest, I understand everybody is trying to help and not hurt here, The bottom line is I do have a A lot of feelings for her, I am a very patient person and forgiving but those limits have been exceeded, I have come to the realisation of my codependent traits and need to be the White Knight, I have also come to the realisation of what that costs me, The one thing I cannot deny is my true feelings, I want better for me, I want better for her, and I want better for the six children involved, and I am willing to do all the work to achieve that with somebody that will not lift a finger. I know it's hard to understand my emotions and goals going on written word when you can't see the sincerity of my feelings or hear them for yourself but I know my intentions are just. I understand the dynamic of all I am going through, I know I want to be a white night, I know she wants to be saved, I know her natural disposition is to test and challenge and fight off everything that she wants the most, I know she is in denial that she has a problem, I know She acts stronger than she is to protect herself and I know why, I know that there are the common particulars that relate to the disorder but I know the Common particulars that relate to the person, I believe even if they have a common disorder everybody is a individual, I have spent over six months Reading and even got a Web Reader so I could listen to articles well I drive, I do not think there are many threads on this site that have gotten by me where I could not Pull a piece of information that I could not use, I know that it comes down to her wanting to be the other half of the relationship and doing her part and I cannot change that dynamic but if given the simple opportunity for a recycle how does a guy like me that cares as much as I do about somebody who is having the problems that she does change that small opportunity into something meaningful? How the heck do I take A possible 5% chance at a recycle and turn it into A oppertunity for betterment of all involved? Once again I love you all for your input and I hope you all understand I do not look down on her for having a problem but I love her enough to stay away if it hurts her as well as love her enough to only want to be part of the solution not the problem.

Quote from: Targeted on January 05, 2015, 05:34:49 PM

And Everybody's input is equally respected whether it seems that you are align with my beliefs or you are playing my devils advocate, even if you are neutral on the subject.

Quick comment... .I've not seen anyone playing "devils advocate".

What I've seen people doing is given their opinion on how best to approach the r/s questions... .and issues that have been raised here... .taking in to account the order to the disorder that we have seen proven out time after time.

True... .there can always be exceptions... .but that is... .IMO ... .extremely rare.

"Taking what applies and leaving the rest... " is a bit broad... .and I'm somewhat worried by that statement.

I think it would be much better to list out the items you believe you are "taking"... .and the ones that you are "leaving" (and maybe some explanations why... .

And we may be able to guide you better on how "the order to the disorder" will play out given the choices that you indicate you will be making.

Thoughts?

Thoughts are I struggle with wanting a answer, I am a hands on mechanical thinker, if I have a car or machine to fix I know I can do it, even if I never saw this machine or car before, because there is Way things work and the way things don't, And even if I am not familiar with the particular problem I know enough to not keep poking At it and changing parts unnecessarily and just find the literature that helps me and guides me to make it work, I understand feelings and emotions are a lot more delicate than anything mechanical and try to treat it that way but bottom line is with out the proper knowledge and understanding and comprehension of the problem no matter what it is you cannot be apart in fixing it and have to turn it over to somebody else, I am not okay admitting that I am not good enough to take part in fixing this problem fully and turn it over to somebody else yet, even though that is the way that it has gone, A few of the reasons are because she is 52 years old and she is going to really need somebody to accept a percentage of recovery to give her at least half of what she wants, another reason is because I think I want more for her then she wants for herself, another reason is because of my religious beliefs that Jesus could not turn his back Mary Magdalen Who is a prostitute, not that I'm comparing her to that but she's not far off, but also from what I believe Jesus did not even Turn his back on the multitudes that crucified him, but instead prayed for them and their forgiveness, I am not him! I know I never will be, but I think like that, it is how MY brain works, I am sorry to bring religion into a mixed forum and I do not know how to explain The inner workings of my incentives otherwise, and I am not ashamed of my beliefs! I will respect yours in a matter what they are, please respect mine?

Quote from: Targeted on January 05, 2015, 07:27:35 PM

This kind of thinking will serve you well if you ever have to "deal with" a pwBPD again.

The key is that you learn the "order to the disorder"... ."the language"... .because there is one. Warning: It will most likely seem strange to you... .but there is one.

That is what we are trying to help people understand that come to this forum.

There is also general "order" to the way uniformed people "get caught up" in a r/s with pwBPD.

There is also a general "order" to the way people become informed and start making healthy choices about their r/s status.

Those "orders" are what we are trying to educate you about... .so that you can minimize the amount of frustration you face... .if you ever are in the situation to make relationship choices with the person again.

Thoughts?

Quote from: Targeted on January 05, 2015, 03:44:17 PM

what would be the point Setting a boundary that there be no other men and entertain continuing the relationship without wanting to address the underlying issues that have the safety net there in the first place?

Hello Targeted

I like your nickname...

I have been reading some of your posts with great interest. You seem to have a lot of love for this young (52 years old) woman, and I feel for you because it is a challenging situation. I see that you are struggling with your feelings for her, with your personal values, and with your feelings for your own needs for a healthy relationship.

I see that they are not coming together in this story.

You see for yourself, she's not been doing enough so far to be capable of making the relevant changes in herself. You are right in my experience, there is no guarantees. Words don't count. Actions are more solid. Consistent mindful actions over an extended period of time are more what you might need from her in order for you to make a commitment.

And yes, according to my own limited experience, you don't get a normal relationship just out of stating and defending your boundaries.

That's the point.

I have a similar experience. My SO has been in therapy for sex addiction for over a year now, because she has a similar 'defence mechanism'. And from there she accepted to attend a short term residential treatment centre and got tested. Found out about her BPD there. It took a h... .of a lot of dedication for her to do the hard work to get into treatment and accept to be tested. And accept the dx even more.

And, it took a h... .of hard work for me to accept that I am not facing a 'normal' relationship potential. I had to seek support for myself, and enter therapy to sort this out for myself. Today I have a support network for just me.

One thing that happened for me, though, is that I decided to put up my boundary that I was not going to see her if she was not ready to be in a faithful monogamous relationship. She kept contacting me, even though I had said that there was no other way for me. So we have not seen each other in person since over a year. She has respected that. But we talk on the phone almost everyday. That's how it gets for us so far. An example.

In our case, in her good times, she says she has the same values as mine about having a monogamous relationship and understands that her compulsive behavior is hurtful. But that comes and goes. She's not done yet.

In the end, if my partner fails to complete recovery from her addiction, I will still be better of for having stood my ground and respected my own values. It's up to me to say when enough is enough.

Everybody is different in their ways and values etc... I share this because I can relate to your suffering as a person who seems to be deeply affected by this person's behavior.

I wish you great wisdom and good luck with your decisions.

BraveSun thank you,

You are right it is not coming together in this story, that's why I am no longer in this relationship, yes it does bother me and I am struggling with it, I can accept that 2+2 = 5 and seven on weekends and even have the ability to divide that once in awhile and turn it into a loving moment with her, when her anxiety kicks in I could 99% of the time bring her right out of it by talking to her and touching her the right way at the right time like knowing when to take her hand or rub her back and knowing when not to. I'm so glad you posted this because it totally relates to where I am at, she is sex and attention addicted as well and wants a monogamous relationship without her actions matching her words. You are staying out of your relationship because of your boundary and I have the same boundary and am staying out on that principal as well, I originally started this thread looking for advice on what to do in the situation of a attempted recycle and preventing that while still trying to recognise if there would be any sincerity in her reasons for trying, I am glad I started this thread now because you all have helped me redirect my thinking, The bottom line is I know that I could deal with her emotional needs as a couple but not while in a triangle. The cheating And attention seeking destroys my ability to do that and that is a fact. I was a little under the impression that maybe if she got help that she would no longer cheat, even if there is some truth to that it is still out of my hands, I can accept everything about her except for that, I am willing to work on any and all relationship issues with her except for that, so she tries to reengage me here is what I think I am going to do, if she never tries then I don't have to worry about it . please feel free to make suggestions.

I think keeping it simple would be best,

I will just tell that I love her and I want to be with her and I am willing to work on anything with her but I cannot do that as long as there are other men involved. Because I have been told before this will not be a problem and it is still a problem I need to be shown before I could re-commit now.

Sticking to that is the only thing that I can do and The rest is up to her, would anybody say anything differently?

BPDFamily.com

Relationship Partner with BPD (Straight and LGBT+) => Romantic Relationship | Bettering a Relationship or Reversing a Breakup => Topic started by: Targeted on December 22, 2014, 09:49:45 AM