BPDFamily.com

Everyone,

With the recent increase in social media and other networks, we can all agree the BPD loves attention and has the potential to become a toxic combination. Credit fellow member Cole for the summary of BPD+FB=marital issues.

Why is a strangers attention more valued than a spouses?

Since learning the communication tools here I feel like I have become more of a parent to my wife, as she seeks my advice like a child would. This is OK, but she doesnt ever accept my compliments or believe any positive words I say to her.

However, she is quick to point out any stupid comment or compliment from FB or some

creep hitting on her at the store. Of her several hundred FB friends, I really doubt any more than 3 would actually help her out if need be.

What are your thoughts?

My uexBPDgf did the same thing in the later years of our relationship (together 9.5 yrs, BU w/NC last 4.5 months/lesbian relat, she decided she had to be straight again). I'm not sure if it has to do with feeling insecure and that they "know" we are going to say complimentary things, but I know that it is probably attached to feeling "less than" and if a stranger compliments them it gives them some sort of emotional stroke. Anyone wants to be complimented, but when you are seeking attention for the sake of being noticed, that's something wrong.

Yes I have noticed that too. My ex took really bad advice from people who had no real knowledge or experience with the advice they were giving. It led him astray financially into bad situations with work, vehicles and other women. The list goes on and on. My advice is of course totally invalid according to him. Whatever. He is broke and I am not. He has a condo losing value by the minute and I have a house thats gone up over 100 thousand. So in the end the best revenge really is just living well.

That is a good question. I hadn't really put my finger on that but that accurately describes some of what I have experienced. When we have gone out, he will talk to strangers or even acquaintances more than he will talk to me.

I unfriended my husband on FB because I got tired of him commenting on things that I would post or things that strangers would post or comment. Heck, he would even comment on who did or didn't like stuff that I posted. It got to be too much for me.

And, we went through a period where we experimented with an open relationship. I would get so upset because he would talk to all of these women online and get so excited about talking to them. If they disappeared or stopped talking to him, he would be so devastated. I remember asking him at one point, "What is it about them that makes them so much more important than me? I have tried to give you that kind of attention and talk to you like that for years but it never seemed to work." It baffled me. Yes, I was talking to other people too but I still made my husband a priority and I still tried to give him attention. I would ask him to sit with me on the couch so we could watch TV and snuggle. He would but he would be messaging with one of his lady friends. I use the term friend very loosely because it was somebody that he had only talked to online. He put more effort into these complete strangers than he did me and the kids.

They have no sense of self so they need constant validation and they know how to get it. Being ignored is their worst fear.

Vortex,

Thanks for the honest answer.

Did you husband show jealousy during your trial period? Did talking with other people help with your own needs?

Oh my, my answer to your question is quite interesting. My husband did not show jealousy. Me being with other men excited him. There was a period of time when he wanted to know all of the details before he could get excited (and yes, that is exactly what I mean). He would only get jealous or upset if I refused to give him details. He really seems to like the idea that other men wanted his wife. There was a period of time when he was encouraging me to be promiscuous. I didn't go there. I couldn't go there. My husband is a sex addict and was using me as a sex toy.

I have a lover and my husband knows about it. It doesn't seem to bother him at the moment. It is a big goofy mess.

As far as getting help with my own needs, it did help a lot. The thing it helped with most was getting out of the isolation. I had reached a point where I had become totally isolated and lonely. I was jumping through hoops doing everything myself (parenting, cooking, cleaning, mowing the yard, etc.). When I started out talking to different guys, it usually started with us sharing about our spouses. I would ask them for ideas on how to get my husband interested. At that time, I genuinely thought there had to be some kind of magic trick that I could do to make things better. Most guys came and went because they only seemed to want one thing. When they saw that I wasn't going to give them that, they would disappear. It was so eye opening on soo many levels.

In all honesty, I wish I had found this site before we did the experimentation. That would have explained a whole lot of stuff that I had been wondering about for so long. When I would tell these guys all of the things that I had done and tried to reconnect with my husband or get his attention, they were completely floored!

The guy that ended up being my lover does fill a lot of needs for me. We don't see each other much. I think we have seen each other once or twice in the last 6 months. Most of it is having somebody to be playful with and joke with. And he is really good at validating me. There are some red flags with him. He is married and his wife seems to be BPD or something. We started out swapping stories about our spouses. Now, our spouses aren't brought up hardly at all and we just try to laugh and joke and make each other feel good.

My guess is that it is easier for "them" in their mind to create a situation where the stranger is validating them and "you" (us... the people in the r/s) are somehow "black for the moment"... .or something like that.

Strangers don't argue back much.

Clean canvas to paint a new delusional self portrait on.

You are not alone. My BPDw thrives on the attention of strangers, especially men, and cannot get enough. She is remarkably attractive and has no problem getting that attention, which has caused serious problems in our marriage. Admittedly, she sees it and is trying hard to change.

With women it is a different story. She chooses friends who are unemployed, under educated, or have messed up lives. And they cannot be attractive; see sees that as a threat. Again, she finally has seen the light and is working to change that, also.  

And thank you, bobcat2014, for telling me about Shari Schiebe's site. Gave me a lot to think about.


Short. Succinct. And 100% spot on.   

What site is this? 

It sounds similar to a site that most on BPD Family have identified as not being completely objective or helpful about pwBPD.

I try to stay away from using words like right or wrong.  Remember... we are talking about a spectrum disorder... .so there are many different presentations.

I remember when I first started doing internet research on BPD... .that there were many sites out there that had a bad "tone" to them. 

One of the things that attracted me to BPD Family is the "tone" of the boards... .in addition to all the great tools and helpful information.

My guess is that we are painted black so our opinions dont matter. It used to wind me up when I said something and it was ignored but if someone else said it it was the best advice ever.

yup that drove me crazy

I don't think it is because we are painted black. I think it might have more to do with the overall dynamics of the relationship. Plus, it could be a matter of quantity. I know that my husband seems to lack the ability to discern quality when it comes to attention and other opinions. As a result, it is a matter of quantity. Having more people say it gives it more credibility. If I am the only one that says it, then there isn't as much credibility because I am only one person.

It is like getting a second opinion taken to the extreme. It also occurs to me that perhaps nons aren't much different. Why are those of us posting getting more value out of what is being said on a forum of strangers? Why are those of us posting looking for opinions and input from people other than our spouses?

 
I have to kind of laugh at that, asking a BPD spouse for their input can be like asking a 6 year old to help solve a problem.  My dBPDh hasn't been capable of it in the past but with a lot of help he is learning how to be an adult.

My dBPDh will work hard to impress strangers if he is looking for validation that he is "good."  He is not able to give himself that validation or comfort because he doesn't have that internal dialogue.

It is a funny thing to put out there. I think I was trying to demonstrate how it is possible that the partner could be seeing things the same way. They do not value our input because they see us as inferior, not helpful, or any other number of reasons. Yes, they are disordered but I am trying to figure out the order behind the disorder. Does that even make sense?

Maybe part of my problem is that I don't fully comprehend the depth of the disorder and try to find ways to project some sort of normalcy onto the situation just so I can have some small hope of getting a grip.

If we werent painted black then how come during the idolisation stage we could tell them anything and they would think it was a fantastic idea.

I can see what you mean.  My girlfriend with BPD told me that when she started to really get close to someone and see that they loved her, she developed a great deal of contempt for them.  Since she saw herself as so flawed and defective, if this person could love her then something must be horribly wrong with them and they weren't trustworthy.

Even though we may not be painted fully black I do believe that they dont want to listen to us. By us highlighting their deficits then they resent us. I think your observation of this fits well into my experience.

I think it's important to bear in mind that you are dealing with a person with the emotional capacity of a 5 year old. Watch a little kid when they make a new friend, that person is suddenly the best thing since sliced bread and they hang off their every word, then someone else comes along, BPDs have very little inner confidence so they latch on to whoever is the flavour of the month.

It is not just us, the opinions of the new doctor, specialist, therapist carries more weight than their old one.

Total respect for someones opinion has a limited span. The more often someone is seen to have an opinion not in alignment (meeting their needs), the less weight they carry on the whole. A new person has yet to "disagree" and hence invalidate them, so they want them to be the new 'answer".

Its not even just people it can be the new medication.

Every new person or thing is the new hope for salvation of their problems.

Just realized my response the other day was incomplete.

I have read the reviews of Shari Schieber on this site. Yes, I agree she is over the top and too negative in some aspects; she seems to have a fatalistic view of the BPD marriage. However, bpdfamily itself has boards for SO leaving and legal information, so we too recognize that not all relationships can be saved.    

She is also fairly realistic in other aspects. I read things that are right on the mark and have to be accepted about the pwBPD. Just because I do not like some of the things she says or how she says them does not make them any less true.

Like any source, you must thoroughly examine it and determine what applies to your specific situation and what does not.

Thank you for pointing this out waverider. I completely missed this. My husband recently changed therapists and he goes on and on about how she is so much better than the previous one. He recently changed sponsors in his 12 step program. Same thing, the new sponsor is soo much better than the old one.


Hmmm, very helpful information to think about !

Oh lordy girl isn't that true though? My dBPDh spends a lot of time how horrible he is and can't understand why I am with him. He hasn't said he feels contempt for me, but he does say how I could do so much better and deserve better, and in the same breath is convinced I'm cheating, or at the very least I "could" as he says.

But... .when dealing with pwBPD traits... .the tone matters... .sometimes it matters more than "the truth"... .which is why I find it curious how any site that is attempting to pass on information about BPD traits... .can take on such a tone.

Makes it much harder to sort out good information from bad... .or to figure out if the information applies to your situation.

Obviously... .everyone can make up their own mind where they get information... .just please be careful with sites with bad "tone".

bad "tone" creates an entrenched attitude. Which ultimately leaves you the permanent victim. No winners there

Bingo. And if they do they are idiots.

My SO is cautious in FB and obsessed with privacy, but he is very extrovert and needs to meet people all the time, and preferably new people. As we run a cafe that is easy. He is often rewinding and telling me how people (important people) give him compliments and understand him - unlike me who never give him feedback he deserves... .

I am an introvert and in my culture (different from his) it's not a custom to tell constantly other people how awesome they are, so this really is one of 'the topics', and after realizing this I make extra effort to give him credit and positive feedback.  Instead of words I have developed a way to communicate with gestures like thumbs up, touch, wink... .in right places. And that works, like oil in an engine. But still he is expecting more words, and I realize that it never will be enough.

I have mentioned in some posts that we have crucial moments in rescuing our business. He tells me that I'm not a businesswoman (well, I never said I am, I am a product developer), and he wants to sell the whole thing or find someone 'normal' to be a partner. I have a pretty good idea how we should proceed, but it's really hard as he listens to just anybody (seems to me) rather than me. I have to be sneaky and make every idea look like it comes from our accountant or 'someone'.

I'm playing with the idea of hiring an actor to tell him my ideas. :)

That is hilarious and still makes total sense, living with someone that has BPD!   lol :)

If you wanted to make a new thread about pwBPD and business relationships... .that might be an interesting thread.  I've got issues in my house there... .

Back to on topic... .:)

I think the key is that it is easier for pwBPD to mold whatever a stranger says... .to fit the feeling of the moment... .than something the intimate partner says.  Plus... .lots of times the intimate partner is the one causing the pwBPD grief... (at least in the pwBPD's mind)

In between BPDh number 1 and BPDh number 2, I had a boyfriend, who might also have been BPD (thanks BPD mom for training me to be a BPD rescuer!).

The boyfriend was constantly meeting new people and was so impressed with them, based on zero evidence, only their interpersonal skills, that he would recommend them to others for their various business endeavors.

Based on this, I hired a tree trimmer that he recommended and it was a disaster! After I hired a couple of his other recommended "friends," I realized that he had no idea about their skill levels in their various fields and that his recommendation was based solely upon how much he had enjoyed talking with them. From that point, I steered clear of any of his future recommendations.

It strikes me that pwBPD often are so needy for approval that when they meet new people, it's like a child getting a new shiny toy: they're so excited about it and they haven't broken or damaged it in any way yet.

just to introduce a sub issue into this.

Do you find that not only does your pwBPD take note of an outsiders opinion but also twist it, misreport it either innocently or deliberately and use it as "evidence" to validate there own twisted opinion.

The views expressed by the outsider is also based on a misrepresented facts in the first place (they were sold a baited situation).

In short this outsiders view as reported to you as been tainted trough the BPD filter twice already

At times the outsider has done no more than placated the pwBPD as they didn't want to be impolite (or couldn't be bothered arguing) and disagree. There is not a lot of authenticity behind that opinion.

This is very common with doctor shoppers

This isn't really addressing your question, Waverider, but I'll throw this concept out anyway. My BPDh will latch on to something that an outsider validated about him and will then throw it in my face.

For example: He sometimes takes photographic prints to be framed at a very high-priced frame shop. He's sort of befriended the owner, a single mom whose daughter just started college. As he does with many people from whom he regularly buys things, he seems to think these business people are "friends" even though he has no other contact with them.

A typical scenario: He will take a photo in to be framed and the owner and people in the store will effusively compliment him on it. Then he will come home and say, "At least someone appreciates me." This is often after I've also complimented him on the very same photo. But somehow my opinion doesn't count.

This is another linked issue with qualifying relationship levels. There is a real difficulty in separating out who is a friend and who is an acquaintance. Hence assigning values on the interactions.

There is some merit in the "value ladder' theory. That is partner>family>close friends>colleagues>aquaintances>strangers. To us we can probably slot people easily into the respective catagory regardless of what they say. It is not opinion based it is reality based. Whereas pwBPD often put too much value in how much a person is validating their thoughts as to were they fit in this scale.

Hence someones position in that "value ladder" shifts regularly. Friends become devalued and acquaintances are elevated to "friend" status, all dependent on whether they are "on side" or not. Friends end up feeling betrayed and leave> abandonment. Acquaintances who have minimal interest in the persons welfare have too much influence

Wow thank you. I tried to explain it to my ex as layers of an onion with him at the middle me in the next layer and close friends in the next etc. He couldn't seem to get it. I think he was starting to buy by then it was pretty much to late. How sad.

Wow! This is a great explanation!

It explains why he gets so bummed out when some person, who is only an acquaintance or a businessperson, doesn't respond as enthusiastically as he hoped they would when he sees them. He's elevated them to friend status, while they perceive him as a customer or merely an acquaintance.

I guess this is somewhat related.  My wife is a total people pleaser when it comes to her friends.  There have been times when she was on the phone with a friend late at night and our daughter was trying to go to sleep and couldn't sleep b/c my wife was in the  room next door.  I asked her to go to a phone in another room and she wouldn't interrupt her friend speaking for fear of upsetting the friend.  So she chose her friend over her own daughter trying to go to sleep.  She did this with me once when I was trying to go to sleep.  I told my wife "just say excuse me" and I'm sure your friend would understand.  She says she's afraid her friend would get upset.  Unreal.

My wife also complains to me when nobody "Likes" her posts of Facebook.

I can think of a dozen examples where my wife has put the needs of her "friends" in front of the needs of our kids or me. This fall my d9 won tickets to the zoo for our family. She was so proud and could not wait to take us. Wife chose to go to a fund raising function at her old high school in a different state because impressing people she went to school with 25 years ago was more important to her her. She was in a manic phase at the time (BPD and bipolar, what fun!) and did not see anything wrong with it until she came down. Now she feels horribly guilty.

 

In a nutshell, her friends are her most valued possession, even though they come and go and often treat her terribly bad.

I recall one night, her dad had become very ill and her family was supposed to visit him in the hospital, but she already had plans for a "girls night out."  So, instead of going to see her dad, she went out with the "girls."

Wow, that sounds like my wife!  Her judgement of people is so often based on how charming the person is!  She is awed by charm and nothing else seems to matter.

This is a bit off-topic, but I wanted to relate this story of my BPDw.  I have this book about being a better husband and the first page is for wives and says that they shouldn't read the book because of the danger of them using it against the husbands.  So my wife read the book and highlighted the areas where she doesn't think I'm doing a good job.  Then she started going through it and pointing out to me how horrible a husband I am b/c I don't follow the book.  So I said, did you read the page where it says that wives shouldn't read it and she said yes, but I'm not using it against you, so it's OK.  She said this in the middle of the conversation in which she was using the book against me!  Rules and boundaries don't apply to BPDs when their emotions take control.

This is where you "stop" the conversation and indicate that you don't understand this and need an explanation... .keep turning her back to this topic... .if she tries to go off on rabbit trails.

Are you guys in MC? 

This would be an appropriate thing to bring up and let her explain it to you and the MC... .and then you explain your point of view.

She may never get it... .

You may never understand her point of view... .

But... .I would focus on that explanation for a long time...