BPDFamily.com

I've been struggling with the decision whether to divorce for the last 8 months after discovering my husband had resumed seeing his girlfriend (has been living a double life for 3 1/2 of the last 5 years). He convinced me to give it a chance with counseling and has made a sincere effort to stop being emotionally abusive, although I can't stop thinking he's just suppressing it for longer periods. Unfortunately I'm finding it just too hard to want to open up to him emotionally, my heart just feels closed.  When he leaves town for awhile I always start to get very anxious and fearful when he's about to return. Reading the book "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist" has really helped me see my role in the dysfunction of our family.  A few last straw incidents recently have made me feel like I need to be out for my own emotional health. I finally got the courage to tell him today and have spent hours listening to how I'm destroying the family and how devastating it will be to my 12 year old son. Is it really best to try to keep it together for the kids sake? Or is keeping the kids in this kind of environment just as bad?

Hi LouHMD,

It's such a painful decision -- often we feel we're choosing between two evils, and neither one is the dream we had for ourselves and our kids. There is a thread from a while back where you can see how some of our members weighed in on the question of whether to stay or leave: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61666.0

I decided to leave. My son is 13. I left his dad 4 years ago.

I can tell you that leaving made it possible for me to parent S13 in healthy ways, although there are still emotional scars that he's dealing with. However, S13 was not really bonded to his dad, and while he wanted his dad's love and affection, he was also afraid of him. The whole eggshell thing. My ex also drank daily and even on nights he was not fall-down drunk, he was still impaired and full blown N/BPD. S13 was also showing signs of severe distress at school, and seemed to be picking bullies for friends. I can now see that he has some genetic tendencies to be hyper-sensitive to sensory input, and would get "flooded" very easily, and N/BPDx had no tolerance for that, which only made things worse. The narcissistic part of my ex only wanted to see S13 as gifted, and could not tolerate that there might be a learning disability. I couldn't get S13 what he needed because it went against the grain of narcissism to admit that something wasn't quite right.

Positive outcome: S13 is doing so much better. For a while, he was thriving. He started puberty and it's been up and down, including depression and anxiety. He had stopped going to therapy, and some nasty stuff with his dad happened that led to visitation being terminated. I think I made a big mistake to end therapy, but at the time S13 was doing so well. Then he entered 8th grade and teachers started to send him to the guidance counselor, and we're sort of back in rescue mode. My instinct is that it's both S13's sensory issues and stuffing his feelings that are making things so hard, plus the usual growing pains of adolescence. But I have this sense that if we stayed with N/BPDx, these issues would be intolerable for S13. I have some concern about S13 having suicidal ideation now, but I believe it would've been a much more serious threat if we did not leave.

You have to weigh a lot because each of our stories are different.

At the end of the day, I left because I knew I wanted to raise an emotionally healthy child. And there was no way I could do that if I stayed. But it's hard work to recover -- a lot of damage can happen in those first 10 years of life.

And the court process is no walk in the park.

For me not being with my ex wife is I believe the best thing that I could have done for my eldestboys. They now have a refuge where they relax and act like normal kids. Yes its a bit disney dad but I believe getting out of the toxic situation saved my sanity and made me a better dad.

I was on a depression forum before i learned about BPD. I realized there how many people struggle with this question. I shared my childhood story there and had so many people PM me for more details. I am an adult child of a mom who left. It was a 30+ year marriage with multiple kids. I am willing to share my experience but not on the public forum. I would never want to hurt the people involved by airing dirty laundry. I found that looking back the over all answer for me is thank god she left. This may not be true for everyone and no one can judge your journey. If anyone wants more of my perspective pls PM me and I can share my experience.

I wish you all peace and love in your day. Remember you are worthy and deserving of a happy healthy life.     

I don't have any words of wisdom but I do want to follow this thread as I have asked myself this question repeatedly. I can see the damage that is being done by staying. I don't know if leaving would alleviate or exacerbate these problems.

First, him living a double life is completely unacceptable. We do have members here who have remained in relationships after the pain of infidelity and betrayal, but that took work on both sides. If your H is unwilling to stop, how willing are you to remain? Your H is blaming you for his behavior.

Second, how much witness are your children to the emotional abuse? My Ex made the decision for me, although I had to kick her out (which took four months) because she thought it acceptable to still live with me while conducting her juvenile r/s outside of our home. A friend of mine called it "living in the grey areas," being different persons to different people, and living by a different set of morals.

As lnl and enlighten me say, I am a better parent, as I can parent on my own terms in my time with them. The most significant thing, I think, is that the kids do not witness an unhealthy dynamic, and I'm talking about both parties. Children mirror what they see. Divorce is tragic and painful (and fraught with possible court battles, unless the other party is willing to go their way with minimal legal drama, as mine did).

Are you talking to anybody in your life (a therapist or other confidante) who can give you some outside advice on this?

The way I see it if I had stayed then I would have been caught up in the crazy. My children would have had two not fully functioning parents. Only by our relationship ending did I realise how much I neglected my sons due to running around after my ex. My stress levels eventually dropped back to normal. I didnt realise how sressed I was even though I was popping antacid tablets like candy. Within a few weeks of moving out I didnt need antacids.

This is what sums it up for me. We teach others how to treat us. And by example we teach children how to treat others and be treated themselves.

How do you want your children to treat others? How do you want them to be treated? What do you want their compass for 'normal' to look like?

Children Learn What They Live

By Dorothy Law Nolte, Ph.D.


If children live with criticism, they learn to condemn.

If children live with hostility, they learn to fight.

If children live with fear, they learn to be apprehensive.

If children live with pity, they learn to feel sorry for themselves.

If children live with ridicule, they learn to feel shy.

If children live with jealousy, they learn to feel envy.

If children live with shame, they learn to feel guilty.

If children live with encouragement, they learn confidence.

If children live with tolerance, they learn patience.

If children live with praise, they learn appreciation.

If children live with acceptance, they learn to love.

If children live with approval, they learn to like themselves.

If children live with recognition, they learn it is good to have a goal.

If children live with sharing, they learn generosity.

If children live with honesty, they learn truthfulness.

If children live with fairness, they learn justice.

If children live with kindness and consideration, they learn respect.

If children live with security, they learn to have faith in themselves and in those about them.

If children live with friendliness, they learn the world is a nice place in which to live.

Such a difficult question... .and one that kept me in my marriage to an uBPD for 25 years.  I was helped by an article I read once that talked about "how to know if the other person is serious about changing and/or getting help.  Simply put, if the person (your husband)

• makes his own appointments with the therapist



• keeps his appointments with the therapist (without being reminded or nagged)



• is accountable and open to you



• openly admits to any of the behaviors that you bring up as problematic, hurtful, harmful, etc.



• openly shares what he is learning/insights about himself and his behavior, how these behaviors affect you and your children



• does not appear to simply be jumping through hoops to hang onto you - in other words, you begin to see real change

When I first came to the message boards, I would read on several of the boards - the Staying, the Undecided, and the Leaving.  I also read most of the articles and some very helpful books.  One of my most helpful books was "One Way Ticket to Kansas: Caring about Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder and Finding a Healthy You" by Ozzie Tinman (available on Amazon's site.)   

It is a tough decision, and each person needs to weigh all the factors for her/ or himself.  I felt I had to give my husband and our marriage every possible chance.  I also knew he'd fight the divorce like the devil (which he did,) and that I would have little or no support from others.  I did not know how I would manage financially.  There were also safety concerns.  It's important that, once you make up your mind, you are sure and don't turn back, because he will pull out all the stops to confuse you, blame you, whatever it takes to keep you from leaving, because he will be in crisis mode. 

It has been 4 1/2 years since our divorce.  Life isn't perfect, but I am a much healthier person!  I am working hard to re-build my life in every aspect.  My 4 kids have all been impacted profoundly - and both of my daughters have BPD traits and behaviors, including suicide attempts, addiction, etc.  But we are all in a much better, much safer place now.  And it's such a relief that I can parent in ways that are loving, consistent, etc., and I no longer enable my ex's bad behavior towards our kids.  No perfect solution, but many are here on the boards who have walked this path, and who will support you along the way, as you figure out what you need to do.

Interesting thing - the longer I was away from him, the less confused I became by his behaviors, and they actually looked very bizarre to me. 

I wish you all the best, including peace and comfort,

PictureLady 

I read this


and this


For "hours" is how my ex used to lecture me.  They were more like rants and rages but the point is they weren't real discussions of back and forth, they were her lecturing me and not even allowing me to speak.  And what I did get to say had no impact, she wasn't listening.  Is that what happened with you, more or less?  If so, then I feel that he's not really trying to change.  Not enough to make a positive difference.

And I see blame-shifting when he asserted you are the one "destroying the family".  Your spouse was the one who was unfaithful, apparently on the path to doing it again, probably already has for all you know since the trust is busted.  (Living a double life for so long is particularly troubling, he's apparently good at it, it is an established pattern and you might not know when he does it again.)  The deed was done long before, you notifying him of your decision to put a signature on a divorce paper is only putting closure to what is already major dysfunction in the relationship.

You mentioned your heart above, listen to it.  And your gut reaction.  Sometimes we overthink our problems and the indecision is overwhelming.  Generally, the first step is the hardest.  The next ones get progressively more obvious and easier to take.  So, was your first step telling him this week?  Then know that though the next steps will be difficult also, they will also be easier to make.  His response - obstructive, blame-shifting, etc - was not the answer you wanted but I believe you will conclude that it confirms what you told him, it's just not working.


The question is more, How dysfunctional or unhealthy is the family environment now?  Also, What example am I setting for my children?  Do the children see me as an appeaser, manipulated, browbeaten or other poor example?  Will I want my children to be someone like my current example or marry someone like my current example?

Historically, infidelity has been the number one basis for ending a marriage.  You don't 'have' to forgive that.  And if there is likelihood it will happen again... .you don't want to be in a position of monitoring your spouse... .won't work for your spouse, not good for you.

Ponder this too... .  Sometimes, you just can't keep the family together, not when the overall atmosphere hasn't improved sufficiently or there is still a real risk of relapse to prior patterns.  The book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce, published 1986, was written to shed light on the decades-long misguided policies that presumed that the mother was always the better parent.  Page 195 had an interesting observation by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."

Thank you all for your replies. Lots of food for thought. Having people who have been through this gives me a place to have a reality check. So easy to get confused and not see the true picture when you are in the middle of it. Sometimes I feel like I've been brainwashed.  I do have a new therapist who will be supportive and give an objective outside perspective, and sisters who are wonderful and supportive. I need to keep focused on the goal of a creating a peaceful home for my children and helping them recover from damage done so far. Good advice to keep in mind what they are learning by my example and focus on modeling healthier behaviors. My husband refuses to see a therapist on his own-he only went to marriage counseling because he knew it was his only hope of getting me to stay. He has had some insight to the damage he's done, but without long term help I think he will just fall back into same pattern no matter how nice he's trying to be at the moment.

LouHMD, in a sense you have been.  You have lived with a very skewed perspective from someone else.  My therapist used to say that I had been "groomed" to play the role I was playing.  (Of course this doesn't absolve me of responsibility... .)  There is a great article that was helpful to me in understanding the dynamics in my relationship with my husband at the time.  It has been referred to often on these boards:

www.drjoecarver.makeswebsites.com/clients/49355/File/love_and_stockholm_syndrome.html


A wonderful goal for you and your children!  Focusing on creating a peaceful and safe home will help guide you as you walk through this process. 

I will never forget the feelings I had when I walked through the home I had bought for me and my kids post-divorce.  I was alone, and my faith is very important to me, so I walked through and prayed over each room, each hallway.  What a relief to know that, even though I could not un-do the past and all that had occurred, I could start fresh.

This sounds so trivial, but the first time my daughter had her door closed to her bedroom, and I knocked on it, this jumped out at me as being NEW.  And RESPECTFUL.  And observing appropriate boundaries.  In our past home (with their father,) it didn't matter if one of the kids had their door closed.  If he was in a black mood, he would regularly storm into one of their rooms, jerking the door open suddenly, yelling, accusing, sometimes grabbing them, and scaring them to death.  Not so in my house!   :)

Wishing you all the best.  Your children are lucky to have you as their mom.

PictureLady 

I stayed until he left me after 17 years.  20/20 hindsight, I should've bailed early and protected my older, now adult DDs, his SDs, who now have traits.  I don't know how youngest would've done.  The custody battle would've been brutal, ongoing and damaging to her.   

Would it have been MORE damaging in the long run than what he ended up doing when he left me?  DD w autism was 15 when her dad allowed her to be at a church function for the first time in her life.  When he picked her up he didn't come home, he drove three days to his mom's house like a maniac.  He told DD the whole trip I was mentally ill and dangerous, I was going to kidnap her to keep her from him and he was going to protect her from me.    She tried to create another personality to take care of her.  Nobody in his family gave a crap how she felt or how distraught she was.  She went into the black hole.

Darn tootin' it was a slam dunk custody.  I had my documentation lined up, from her pediatrician, pastors, and the fact she missed her first ever mental health appointment.

Right before she turned 18, her phone went missing for 3 hours while in the car with him and his mother.  Since she wouldn't get in a car with him without a phone, this was major distress.  When she came home and we talked, I asked to see her phone.  Her SAFE numbers were deleted or changed to their numbers.  That's why she chose NC.

I used to believe in staying together for the sake of the children, but with BPD no.  Plan it out,  build your community network for yourself and your kids, document, document, document.  Keep your emotions out of it and present yourself well.  Focus solely on providing what's best for your kids and that's you staying out of BPD bs.