|
Title: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: paperlung on January 06, 2015, 09:09:57 PM - Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year.
- 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure. - I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect. - December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship. - She cries and says she's sorry some more. - I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year. - I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past. Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: SlyQQ on January 06, 2015, 09:44:27 PM Real and genuine are Key words somehow you have to seperate her saying something to get what she wants to her saying sorry and meaning it is this your goal?
Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: letmeout on January 06, 2015, 09:51:40 PM She obviously wants you back in her life and she was willing to say anything to accomplish that. Do they really feel remorse? From my own experience with my BPD they honestly can't. In their minds, they are not at fault for their own behavior, therefore they didn't do anything wrong. At least that is how my ex explained it.
Their reality is not the same as our reality. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: SlyQQ on January 06, 2015, 09:52:50 PM As an aside to this my Ex BPD cried for about a week on an off ( she was in hospital and the psyche staff informed me of mthis an how "sorry" she was ) But it was not what i would call sorry I have also read somewhere where a BPD person put themselves into a crying phase ( similar apparently to that of my ex) an vowed never to do it again because she found it so hard to shake so be careful manipulation is not being sorry nor is being ashamed ( for getting caught )
Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: paperlung on January 06, 2015, 10:11:12 PM She obviously wants you back in her life and she was willing to say anything to accomplish that. Do they really feel remorse? From my own experience with my BPD they honestly can't. In their minds, they are not at fault for their own behavior, therefore they didn't do anything wrong. At least that is how my ex explained it. Their reality is not the same as our reality. I think she feels bad for what she did to me, I really do. I guess I just would've liked to have seen it with my own eyes instead of through text. I mean, we hadn't seen each other in over a year, you'd think that spark something in her to look me in the eyes and say, "I am SO sorry for what I did to you." Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: Mutt on January 06, 2015, 10:14:33 PM Hi paperlung,
I'm sorry to hear she's not quite giving you what you expect. It's hard. I can relate. About 3 months ago I got an apology from my ex. She simply said "Mutt, I'm sorry things happened this way." I got that after two years. Affair, divorce, custody battle, bankruptcy. Honestly, I think she meant it and I think it's as good as it's going to get. I don't think she understands her behaviors. For example, much of what she had done was lack of impulse control, understanding the consequences of one's actions and the damage black and white thinking can do to families. I was surprised and I take the apology as is. That being said, she's undiagnosed and not in therapy. I have my boundaries. I have my voice recorder, communicate by email to track and parallel parent. I can't risk getting in trouble with the law if she dissociates. I have to be able to protect my kids, they come first in my books. Her apology brought a little peace. I still remember the hell I went through after the break-up and I'm disinterested in being friends for now and we're done. I don't go back to past loves disordered or not. It's a choice. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: SlyQQ on January 06, 2015, 10:14:56 PM Are you brave enough to ask her in person? this is a very volatile course of action if you do
Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: paperlung on January 07, 2015, 12:15:19 AM Hi paperlung, I'm sorry to hear she's not quite giving you what you expect. It's hard. I can relate. About 3 months ago I got an apology from my ex. She simply said "Mutt, I'm sorry things happened this way." I got that after two years. Affair, divorce, custody battle, bankruptcy. Honestly, I think she meant it and I think it's as good as it's going to get. I don't think she understands her behaviors. For example, much of what she had done was lack of impulse control, understanding the consequences of one's actions and the damage black and white thinking can do to families. I was surprised and I take the apology as is. That being said, she's undiagnosed and not in therapy. I have my boundaries. I have my voice recorder, communicate by email to track and parallel parent. I can't risk getting in trouble with the law if she dissociates. I have to be able to protect my kids, they come first in my books. Her apology brought a little peace. I still remember the hell I went through after the break-up and I'm disinterested in being friends for now and we're done. I don't go back to past loves disordered or not. It's a choice. I'll take what I got, I guess. She did apologize (more than once) and tell me how much she regrets what happened. Are you brave enough to ask her in person? this is a very volatile course of action if you do I'm not seeing or speaking to her anymore again (my choice). I didn't like what I saw and heard from her. If I continued to talk/see her, I know my feelings for her would've grown and destroyed me. So... .I ran. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: Infared on January 07, 2015, 01:37:08 AM - Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year. - 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure. - I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect. - December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship. - She cries and says she's sorry some more. - I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year. - I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past. Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one. Yeah... .well... .I guess you could speak up sincerely and tell her how much it would mean to you to have a meaningful face-to-face apology... .and to say how healing it would be for you. I never got anything, no admission, no apology, NOTHING... .I understand your sorrow... .but I want you to also feel good about the fact that you got a lot more than many of us here. People tend to avoid things that they are ashamed of. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: letmeout on January 10, 2015, 11:31:14 PM I'm not seeing or speaking to her anymore again (my choice). I didn't like what I saw and heard from her. If I continued to talk/see her, I know my feelings for her would've grown and destroyed me. So... .I ran. I understand, my ex keeps trying to find ways to communicate with me, but I keep running from it. I refuse to break no-contact for my own health and well being. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: bunnyrabit on January 11, 2015, 12:17:01 AM I wouldn't worry about that too much. I got plenty of apologies only for her to do same thing that she was apologizing for again the next day... .It's only words, with BPD they usually don't mean anything. If you and I are really sorry about something we'd make sure to never make the same mistake again, we wouldn't even need words.BPD's they say one thing and let their actions contradict it, every time again. These people, they don't make sense... .
Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: paperlung on January 11, 2015, 12:28:15 AM I wouldn't worry about that too much. I got plenty of apologies only for her to do same thing that she was apologizing for again the next day... .It's only words, with BPD they usually don't mean anything. If you and I are really sorry about something we'd make sure to never make the same mistake again, we wouldn't even need words.BPD's they say one thing and let their actions contradict it, every time again. These people, they don't make sense... . Ain't that the truth. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: JRT on January 11, 2015, 12:58:57 AM - Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year. - 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure. - I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect. - December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship. - She cries and says she's sorry some more. - I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year. - I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past. Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one. I was thinking that her apologies were covered on the earlier telephone calls. If that is the case, is any more apologizing necessary? Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: paperlung on January 11, 2015, 02:28:00 AM - Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year. - 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure. - I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect. - December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship. - She cries and says she's sorry some more. - I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year. - I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past. Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one. I was thinking that her apologies were covered on the earlier telephone calls. If that is the case, is any more apologizing necessary? That's what I was wondering myself. I still would have appreciated an actual face-to-face, look me in the eyes kind of apology. She put me through absolute hell. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: Infared on January 11, 2015, 07:19:15 AM - Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year. - 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure. - I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect. - December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship. - She cries and says she's sorry some more. - I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year. - I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past. Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one. I was thinking that her apologies were covered on the earlier telephone calls. If that is the case, is any more apologizing necessary? That's what I was wondering myself. I still would have appreciated an actual face-to-face, look me in the eyes kind of apology. She put me through absolute hell. Paper lung... I am totally with you... .if you had not seen her in a long time because of her behavior, then I would want s vis-â-vis apology or discussion as well. Basic human need and it would reinforce the sincerity of the person's remorse. Let's face it, pwBPD cause emotional damage. We need reassuring. At least she didn't disperse the apology in a text. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: JRT on January 11, 2015, 10:40:31 AM - Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year. - 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure. - I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect. - December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship. - She cries and says she's sorry some more. - I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year. - I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past. Trust me, I am not trying to defend her. But given that it is difficult to apologize for may people ESPECIALLY BPD's (I would take any apology even if came through a third party or carrier pigeon, 3 months later and mine still rages after HER disappearing act). If you you would like for it to work out, it might be helpful to that end to consider the phone apologies a good first step. Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one. I was thinking that her apologies were covered on the earlier telephone calls. If that is the case, is any more apologizing necessary? That's what I was wondering myself. I still would have appreciated an actual face-to-face, look me in the eyes kind of apology. She put me through absolute hell. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: fred6 on January 11, 2015, 12:18:01 PM Paper lung... I am totally with you... .if you had not seen her in a long time because of her behavior, then I would want s vis-â-vis apology or discussion as well. Basic human need and it would reinforce the sincerity of the person's remorse. Let's face it, pwBPD cause emotional damage. We need reassuring. At least she didn't disperse the apology in a text. No sir, that would be me. I got a couple of small "I'm sorry" comments in a dismissive disgusted tone when I confronted her a couple times. The only semi-sincere apologies that I got were in the form of text messages. If I could figure out how to post them, I would. Just to give you guys a glimpse into my ex's idea of an apology. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: JRT on January 11, 2015, 01:31:44 PM Paper lung... I am totally with you... .if you had not seen her in a long time because of her behavior, then I would want s vis-â-vis apology or discussion as well. Basic human need and it would reinforce the sincerity of the person's remorse. Let's face it, pwBPD cause emotional damage. We need reassuring. At least she didn't disperse the apology in a text. No sir, that would be me. I got a couple of small "I'm sorry" comments in a dismissive disgusted tone when I confronted her a couple times. The only semi-sincere apologies that I got were in the form of text messages. If I could figure out how to post them, I would. Just to give you guys a glimpse into my ex's idea of an apology. I would be interested in seeing them... .if you can send the texts to your email address, you can then copy and paste them. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: wanttoknowmore on January 11, 2015, 02:29:19 PM Saying sorry in clear manner means they are defective... .And defective means they are totally BAD... .WHY? Because pwBPD can only think in All OR None manner. They want to say sorry but it is extremely difficult for them so they say it in a very vague ,unclear way. Mine said " I was trying to protect you from my craziness" and I take it as apology. Its a very big deal for them even to acknowledge that there is something wrong with their head ... although deeper down they are aware that there is something wrong. IMO... expecting a clear apology from a pwBPD is not a good idea as you won't get it... .OR even if you get it ... it would come at the cost of further damage to their already broken self esteem. Just be kind and let go
there is no need to ask clear apology. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: paperlung on January 11, 2015, 03:09:44 PM - Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year. - 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure. - I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect. - December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship. - She cries and says she's sorry some more. - I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year. - I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past. Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one. I was thinking that her apologies were covered on the earlier telephone calls. If that is the case, is any more apologizing necessary? That's what I was wondering myself. I still would have appreciated an actual face-to-face, look me in the eyes kind of apology. She put me through absolute hell. Paper lung... I am totally with you... .if you had not seen her in a long time because of her behavior, then I would want s vis-â-vis apology or discussion as well. Basic human need and it would reinforce the sincerity of the person's remorse. Let's face it, pwBPD cause emotional damage. We need reassuring. At least she didn't disperse the apology in a text. She did. She sent my an apology email three months out of the relationship. A year of NC, we text and she says she's sorry again and that she feels bad for what she had done to me. Another thing that kind of bugged me when we met up after two years is how little questions she asked me other than how my family is doing and, of course, how many girls I've hooked up with since we broke up. Nothing like, "Have gone anywhere interesting? Learned anything new? Picked up any new hobbies? Ect." If we weren't reminiscing, it was 90% about her and the drama she had been through over the year after we broke up. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: JRT on January 11, 2015, 03:26:48 PM To me, THAT would be bothersome. Looking back at my relationship, mine really didn't care about anything that wasn't obvious. The worn out phrase, 'she really wasn't that into you' comes to mind when I think about it. That's because BPD's are into themselves, their shame, their anger, their survival... .It would jsust seem to me that she did nothing to attend to her dysfunction while she was away... .you are just gonna get the same BS... .its a standard recycle... .beware!
... .fact of the matter is, that mine was into nothing... .no hobbies... .no passions... .no interests... .no goals... .nothing (with the exception of food. The food channel was ALWAYS on even though she rarely cooled and the only thing that she would watch and when we did anything, even vacation, it was around eating out). Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: paperlung on January 11, 2015, 03:34:21 PM To me, THAT would be bothersome. Looking back at my relationship, mine really didn't care about anything that wasn't obvious. The worn out phrase, 'she really wasn't that into you' comes to mind when I think about it. That's because BPD's are into themselves, their shame, their anger, their survival... .It would jsust seem to me that she did nothing to attend to her dysfunction while she was away... .you are just gonna get the same BS... .its a standard recycle... .beware! ... .fact of the matter is, that mine was into nothing... .no hobbies... .no passions... .no interests... .no goals... .nothing (with the exception of food. The food channel was ALWAYS on even though she rarely cooled and the only thing that she would watch and when we did anything, even vacation, it was around eating out). That's why I emailed a week ago saying I didn't want to talk to or see her anymore. I didn't like what I saw or heard from her when we caught up, and knew that if I continued to text/see her, it would be trouble. I didn't want to risk catching feelings for someone like her again. She hasn't tried to contact me since, but I know she is occupied with a new toy who she seems to be idealizing at the moment. I don't think she'll ever change her behavior. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: JRT on January 11, 2015, 03:42:58 PM As I have been thinking about it, if mine bothers to contact me every again, my question to her would be, 'ok, what have you been doing to deal with your problem?' If the answer is nothing, I know that I would be setting myself up for more of the same.
At the same time, I really think that part of being decent would be to tell them this sort of thing rather than not speak to them or not give them for what your decision happens to be. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: paperlung on January 11, 2015, 03:54:35 PM As I have been thinking about it, if mine bothers to contact me every again, my question to her would be, 'ok, what have you been doing to deal with your problem?' If the answer is nothing, I know that I would be setting myself up for more of the same. At the same time, I really think that part of being decent would be to tell them this sort of thing rather than not speak to them or not give them for what your decision happens to be. Mine talked a lot of crap about getting on-going help/therapy once moving back here (where I live). Since being back, she has done nothing but fool around with guys on POF/Tinder. When I asked her if she was still going to get therapy she said something like, "Oh, I don't think I need it now. I was just really stressed out the last couple of months before moving back here." She also claims she's going to be going to college this April for a Veterinary Assistant program. I know she probably won't do it, though. She's got really bad anxiety and she dropped out of high school in Grade 8. I even told her to do some volunteer work in the meantime with animals to pass the time and she said she wasn't sure she could because of her anxiety. If she can't handle volunteering for maybe like an hour or two a week, there is no way she's going to be able to handle a 5-day-a-week, full-time program for 6 months. All she does is blow hot air. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: JRT on January 11, 2015, 04:07:12 PM Those are some serious red flags paper.
Mine would say that she needed so see someone after a rage and recycle... .I would assuage her by telling her that we would perfect our relationship together and then the entire matter was swept under the rug never to be mentioned ever again. Not that it was taboo; i suspect that she felt that she had it cleared through me in some way. I wonder if I would still be together with her IF I demanded that she begin to see a therapist. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: paperlung on January 11, 2015, 05:08:07 PM Those are some serious red flags paper. Mine would say that she needed so see someone after a rage and recycle... .I would assuage her by telling her that we would perfect our relationship together and then the entire matter was swept under the rug never to be mentioned ever again. Not that it was taboo; i suspect that she felt that she had it cleared through me in some way. I wonder if I would still be together with her IF I demanded that she begin to see a therapist. Oh, there were red flags from the very beginning, man. I was just too inexperienced to realize them (I was 21 and she was my first relationship). The first time we met, she invited me over to her dad's place and we just chilled in her room for a few hours. She showed me pictures of all three of her ex-boyfriends. Hell, just a couple weeks ago when I went over to her place after not seeing her in over a year, she showed me pictures of the guys she's been with after me. I said, "Why are you showing me this? I don't care." And she said, "Oh, I just thought you might be curious." Getting them to stick to therapy is very difficult. Even if my ex was in therapy, I would always be just waiting for that moment for her to quit. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: Ripped Heart on January 11, 2015, 05:22:20 PM I understand your pain and frustration paperlung.
My gf can apologise in a text, she can do it in email. if it's a minor thing, such as a nasty comment, she can even apologise to your face. However, if it's something major she cannot do it in person and she can't even do it over the phone. You have been through a lot over the past couple of years and have every right to be angry. It sounds like you fall into a similar trap to what I do. They do something wrong, you question it, she apologises by text. You accept it initially and then realise that frustration has not gone because it's not good enough. You want a sincere apology because there is no tone in a text, so we can only apply our own tone to the message. It could be seen as insincere, sarcastic or simply a default reaction to an incident. It's not good enough, we want to see and hear they are actually sorry but in their minds, they have already apologised and moved on beyond that. I think in these circumstances it's us that need to change. It's us that need to say we can't accept their apology by text or email until we hear it from them in person (or if you can accept it, over the phone) we need that validation for our own peace of mind. However, in a relationship or friendship with a pwBPD, we have to accept there can be limitations it's whether we are happy to accept those limitations. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: JRT on January 11, 2015, 11:29:45 PM Those are some serious red flags paper. Mine would say that she needed so see someone after a rage and recycle... .I would assuage her by telling her that we would perfect our relationship together and then the entire matter was swept under the rug never to be mentioned ever again. Not that it was taboo; i suspect that she felt that she had it cleared through me in some way. I wonder if I would still be together with her IF I demanded that she begin to see a therapist. Oh, there were red flags from the very beginning, man. I was just too inexperienced to realize them (I was 21 and she was my first relationship). The first time we met, she invited me over to her dad's place and we just chilled in her room for a few hours. She showed me pictures of all three of her ex-boyfriends. Hell, just a couple weeks ago when I went over to her place after not seeing her in over a year, she showed me pictures of the guys she's been with after me. I said, "Why are you showing me this? I don't care." And she said, "Oh, I just thought you might be curious." Getting them to stick to therapy is very difficult. Even if my ex was in therapy, I would always be just waiting for that moment for her to quit. Holy Cow! Why in the world would she be showing you photos of her new BF's? Its totally inappropriate and goes to show you how little concept she has of your feelings. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: JRT on January 11, 2015, 11:34:30 PM Ripped... .you made me think of my ex and apologies... .I recall the only time that she had apologized for anything, ever. It was an accident but she knocked my expensive camera off of a bartop and crashing to the floor. It destroyed a component and I was not happy. Even though it was an accident, it was a bit careless and caused damaged. Even though I didn't abuse her and just told her to be more careful, she defended herself pretty ardently. It was only after 10 minutes or so that she offered me a sincere apology... .it seemed like it was the toughest thing she ever had to do. Is that a BPD thing?
Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: Infared on January 12, 2015, 12:01:06 AM Those are some serious red flags paper. Mine would say that she needed so see someone after a rage and recycle... .I would assuage her by telling her that we would perfect our relationship together and then the entire matter was swept under the rug never to be mentioned ever again. Not that it was taboo; i suspect that she felt that she had it cleared through me in some way. I wonder if I would still be together with her IF I demanded that she begin to see a therapist. Oh, there were red flags from the very beginning, man. I was just too inexperienced to realize them (I was 21 and she was my first relationship). The first time we met, she invited me over to her dad's place and we just chilled in her room for a few hours. She showed me pictures of all three of her ex-boyfriends. Hell, just a couple weeks ago when I went over to her place after not seeing her in over a year, she showed me pictures of the guys she's been with after me. I said, "Why are you showing me this? I don't care." And she said, "Oh, I just thought you might be curious." Getting them to stick to therapy is very difficult. Even if my ex was in therapy, I would always be just waiting for that moment for her to quit. Their level of self-involvement and total lack of any kind of empathy never ceases to amaze me. This is a sign of serious metal illness, no? Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: paperlung on January 12, 2015, 12:04:01 AM Those are some serious red flags paper. Mine would say that she needed so see someone after a rage and recycle... .I would assuage her by telling her that we would perfect our relationship together and then the entire matter was swept under the rug never to be mentioned ever again. Not that it was taboo; i suspect that she felt that she had it cleared through me in some way. I wonder if I would still be together with her IF I demanded that she begin to see a therapist. Oh, there were red flags from the very beginning, man. I was just too inexperienced to realize them (I was 21 and she was my first relationship). The first time we met, she invited me over to her dad's place and we just chilled in her room for a few hours. She showed me pictures of all three of her ex-boyfriends. Hell, just a couple weeks ago when I went over to her place after not seeing her in over a year, she showed me pictures of the guys she's been with after me. I said, "Why are you showing me this? I don't care." And she said, "Oh, I just thought you might be curious." Getting them to stick to therapy is very difficult. Even if my ex was in therapy, I would always be just waiting for that moment for her to quit. Holy Cow! Why in the world would she be showing you photos of her new BF's? Its totally inappropriate and goes to show you how little concept she has of your feelings. I... .honestly don't know. She's really weird. She even asked me that night out of the blue while we were playing video games, ":)o you think I am weird?" I felt like saying, "No, you're just very sick." I took the politically correct approach though and just said we are all weird in our own way. Another thing she didn't consider that night in regards to my feelings was when we were on her laptop. I don't know how familiar you are with my story, JRT, but two years ago she had an online affair with a man twice her age who lived very, very far away. She said something along the lines of, "Check out all of these old pictures I had sent him back then. He emailed them to me not long ago." A lot of them were nude photos of her or pictures taken during our outings together of random stuff. Maybe she thought since over a year had past and that I've been with different women since then, I wouldn't care. I don't know. Still bugged me. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: JRT on January 12, 2015, 12:25:35 AM Those are some serious red flags paper. Mine would say that she needed so see someone after a rage and recycle... .I would assuage her by telling her that we would perfect our relationship together and then the entire matter was swept under the rug never to be mentioned ever again. Not that it was taboo; i suspect that she felt that she had it cleared through me in some way. I wonder if I would still be together with her IF I demanded that she begin to see a therapist. Oh, there were red flags from the very beginning, man. I was just too inexperienced to realize them (I was 21 and she was my first relationship). The first time we met, she invited me over to her dad's place and we just chilled in her room for a few hours. She showed me pictures of all three of her ex-boyfriends. Hell, just a couple weeks ago when I went over to her place after not seeing her in over a year, she showed me pictures of the guys she's been with after me. I said, "Why are you showing me this? I don't care." And she said, "Oh, I just thought you might be curious." Getting them to stick to therapy is very difficult. Even if my ex was in therapy, I would always be just waiting for that moment for her to quit. Their level of self-involvement and total lack of any kind of empathy never ceases to amaze me. This is a sign of serious metal illness, no? [/quot \ Sure is! Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: JRT on January 12, 2015, 12:28:04 AM Those are some serious red flags paper. Mine would say that she needed so see someone after a rage and recycle... .I would assuage her by telling her that we would perfect our relationship together and then the entire matter was swept under the rug never to be mentioned ever again. Not that it was taboo; i suspect that she felt that she had it cleared through me in some way. I wonder if I would still be together with her IF I demanded that she begin to see a therapist. Oh, there were red flags from the very beginning, man. I was just too inexperienced to realize them (I was 21 and she was my first relationship). The first time we met, she invited me over to her dad's place and we just chilled in her room for a few hours. She showed me pictures of all three of her ex-boyfriends. Hell, just a couple weeks ago when I went over to her place after not seeing her in over a year, she showed me pictures of the guys she's been with after me. I said, "Why are you showing me this? I don't care." And she said, "Oh, I just thought you might be curious." Getting them to stick to therapy is very difficult. Even if my ex was in therapy, I would always be just waiting for that moment for her to quit. Holy Cow! Why in the world would she be showing you photos of her new BF's? Its totally inappropriate and goes to show you how little concept she has of your feelings. I... .honestly don't know. She's really weird. She even asked me that night out of the blue while we were playing video games, ":)o you think I am weird?" I felt like saying, "No, you're just very sick." I took the politically correct approach though and just said we are all weird in our own way. Another thing she didn't consider that night in regards to my feelings was when we were on her laptop. I don't know how familiar you are with my story, JRT, but two years ago she had an online affair with a man twice her age who lived very, very far away. She said something along the lines of, "Check out all of these old pictures I had sent him back then. He emailed them to me not long ago." A lot of them were nude photos of her or pictures taken during our outings together of random stuff. Maybe she thought since over a year had past and that I've been with different women since then, I wouldn't care. I don't know. Still bugged me. I am by no means a BPD expert, but inj all of the reading that I have done in the past 3 months, I have never come across anything that has much to say about the naked photos and such. Though, I have read that its sometimes the case that a BPD has this and also that... .I wonder if there is something else going on with her. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: fromheeltoheal on January 12, 2015, 12:33:46 AM Regarding healing and growing, you mention you didn't bring anything up when you were together either. It's clearly weighing on you, you're talking to us about it, and do you think leveling with her and being emotionally vulnerable when you were together would have taken the conversation in a deeper direction? :)o you think you have anything to apologize for? I realize after the damage done by being with someone with a personality disorder we want to and should protect ourselves, but how good was the communication when you were in it?
I was very open and honest initially with my ex, but as time went on I said less and less, since she wouldn't, or couldn't meet me there and just blamed me for everything, but I now realize that my saying less made her trust me less, which triggered her abandonment fears even more. I don't owe her an apology, I didn't do anything I regret before I left, and I don't owe her an apology for leaving, but it takes two to tango, and it's helpful to look at our part as we heal and grow. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: Infared on January 12, 2015, 01:13:40 AM - Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year. - 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure. - I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect. - December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship. - She cries and says she's sorry some more. - I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year. - I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past. Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one. I was thinking that her apologies were covered on the earlier telephone calls. If that is the case, is any more apologizing necessary? That's what I was wondering myself. I still would have appreciated an actual face-to-face, look me in the eyes kind of apology. She put me through absolute hell. Paper lung... I am totally with you... .if you had not seen her in a long time because of her behavior, then I would want s vis-â-vis apology or discussion as well. Basic human need and it would reinforce the sincerity of the person's remorse. Let's face it, pwBPD cause emotional damage. We need reassuring. At least she didn't disperse the apology in a text. R She did. She sent my an apology email three months out of the relationship. A year of NC, we text and she says she's sorry again and that she feels bad for what she had done to me. Another thing that kind of bugged me when we met up after two years is how little questions she asked me other than how my family is doing and, of course, how many girls I've hooked up with since we broke up. Nothing like, "Have gone anywhere interesting? Learned anything new? Picked up any new hobbies? Ect." If we weren't reminiscing, it was 90% about her and the drama she had been through over the year after we broke up. Please notice how she is like a strategist in a battle. She keeps you engaged in HER drama (BTW ... you do not need to listen to that uncaring drama, if it hurts you emotionally), while She is gathering info about your status and how that effects her current status with you. She is not coming from a place of a remorseful, loving adult. Just take care of you. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: paperlung on January 12, 2015, 01:46:30 AM - Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year. - 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure. - I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect. - December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship. - She cries and says she's sorry some more. - I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year. - I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past. Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one. I was thinking that her apologies were covered on the earlier telephone calls. If that is the case, is any more apologizing necessary? That's what I was wondering myself. I still would have appreciated an actual face-to-face, look me in the eyes kind of apology. She put me through absolute hell. Paper lung... I am totally with you... .if you had not seen her in a long time because of her behavior, then I would want s vis-â-vis apology or discussion as well. Basic human need and it would reinforce the sincerity of the person's remorse. Let's face it, pwBPD cause emotional damage. We need reassuring. At least she didn't disperse the apology in a text. R She did. She sent my an apology email three months out of the relationship. A year of NC, we text and she says she's sorry again and that she feels bad for what she had done to me. Another thing that kind of bugged me when we met up after two years is how little questions she asked me other than how my family is doing and, of course, how many girls I've hooked up with since we broke up. Nothing like, "Have gone anywhere interesting? Learned anything new? Picked up any new hobbies? Ect." If we weren't reminiscing, it was 90% about her and the drama she had been through over the year after we broke up. Please notice how she is like a strategist in a battle. She keeps you engaged in HER drama (BTW ... you do not need to listen to that uncaring drama, if it hurts you emotionally), while She is gathering info about your status and how that effects her current status with you. She is not coming from a place of a remorseful, loving adult. Just take care of you. Thanks, and I am. I haven't spoken to her in a week (I emailed her telling her I didn't want to talk to or see her anymore). I didn't like what I saw or heard from her. She's a very damaged individual. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: Infared on January 12, 2015, 02:08:36 AM - Ex cheated on me, we break up, and I go NC for 1 year. - 3 months into NC she sends my an apology letter. It sounded very sincere. I did not respond, but it gave me some closure. - I break NC after a year begin LC via text with her. She tells me more about how bad she feels about what she did to me, ect. - December 2014 she moves back to my area we walk on the phone (first time in over a year). I sort of emotionally unload on her, reminding her how awful she treated towards the end of our relationship. - She cries and says she's sorry some more. - I decide to meet her like 2 weeks later for 30 minutes (we walk my dog) and neither of us bring up what happened in the past. She doesn't say sorry or appear remorseful. Keep in mind we hadn't seen each other in over a year. - I see her again a week later; went to visit her place. Again, no apology or sign of empathy for what she did to me in the past. Is this normal? Could she just may have not wanted to sound like a broken record? A real genuine face-to-face apology would have meant a lot to me, but I never got one. I was thinking that her apologies were covered on the earlier telephone calls. If that is the case, is any more apologizing necessary? That's what I was wondering myself. I still would have appreciated an actual face-to-face, look me in the eyes kind of apology. She put me through absolute hell. Paper lung... I am totally with you... .if you had not seen her in a long time because of her behavior, then I would want s vis-â-vis apology or discussion as well. Basic human need and it would reinforce the sincerity of the person's remorse. Let's face it, pwBPD cause emotional damage. We need reassuring. At least she didn't disperse the apology in a text. R She did. She sent my an apology email three months out of the relationship. A year of NC, we text and she says she's sorry again and that she feels bad for what she had done to me. Another thing that kind of bugged me when we met up after two years is how little questions she asked me other than how my family is doing and, of course, how many girls I've hooked up with since we broke up. Nothing like, "Have gone anywhere interesting? Learned anything new? Picked up any new hobbies? Ect." If we weren't reminiscing, it was 90% about her and the drama she had been through over the year after we broke up. Please notice how she is like a strategist in a battle. She keeps you engaged in HER drama (BTW ... you do not need to listen to that uncaring drama, if it hurts you emotionally), while She is gathering info about your status and how that effects her current status with you. She is not coming from a place of a remorseful, loving adult. Just take care of you. Thanks, and I am. I haven't spoken to her in a week (I emailed her telling her I didn't want to talk to or see her anymore). I didn't like what I saw or heard from her. She's a very damaged individual. Glad to here... it's good to have some empathy in your heart, but you are doing the right thing taking care of you. She sounds like she has no boundaries and you are forming/enforcing very healthy ones. Good for you! Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: Ripped Heart on January 12, 2015, 07:22:35 AM Ripped... .you made me think of my ex and apologies... .I recall the only time that she had apologized for anything, ever. It was an accident but she knocked my expensive camera off of a bartop and crashing to the floor. It destroyed a component and I was not happy. Even though it was an accident, it was a bit careless and caused damaged. Even though I didn't abuse her and just told her to be more careful, she defended herself pretty ardently. It was only after 10 minutes or so that she offered me a sincere apology... .it seemed like it was the toughest thing she ever had to do. Is that a BPD thing? I don't know if it's completely a BPD thing as I know many non's who have issues apologising for things too. I know BPDgf does apologise but finds it extremely difficult but exN/BPDw would never apologise for anything. She always found a way to turn it back on you and it being your fault. So in the case of your camera, she would have made it your fault for putting in a place where it could be knocked over. Then when you show you are unhappy, she would rage at your reaction because had you not been incompetent, she wouldn't have knocked it over in the first place, therefore it was your responsibility to apologise to her for being annoyed in the first place. It was that reaction to everything that would drive me insane. No matter what she did, it was always your fault regardless. I do see glimpses of that with BPDgf, but she does at least feel bad about things even when you respond with "It's ok, accidents can happen", I sometimes feel that the apology isn't so much for us but to stop their own bad feelings so it can come across as insincere. It's kind of like they aren't sorry that we are hurt or upset about something, they are sorry because they are feeling bad and want that feeling to stop. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: parisian on January 12, 2015, 07:37:16 AM paperlung, it's very very difficult for them to apologize. Not impossible - mine said sorry once during a 2 year relationship, but there was no apology at the end. Her position was that she could not change. I was thinking she was a 'normal, healthy adult. And normal, healthy adults can have reasonable conversations about how they feel, and if one person is doing something that is upsetting the other. BPDs cannot have those conversations. If you try, then you are upsetting them for raising those issues.
In their minds, they are simply acting out how THEY feel. They don't have empathy because their own feelings are too overwhelming so it's impossible for them to try and think about how someone else feels. They can't understand our hurt. They can't understand how their behaviour impacts on us. Excerpt it was your responsibility to apologise to her for being annoyed in the first place. It was that reaction to everything that would drive me insane. No matter what she did, it was always your fault regardless. Same here. Regardless of what she did, I would always be the one apologizing for raising my concerns with her behaviour. It's crazy making. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: Infared on January 12, 2015, 07:48:31 AM paperlung, it's very very difficult for them to apologize. Not impossible - mine said sorry once during a 2 year relationship, but there was no apology at the end. Her position was that she could not change. I was thinking she was a 'normal, healthy adult. And normal, healthy adults can have reasonable conversations about how they feel, and if one person is doing something that is upsetting the other. BPDs cannot have those conversations. If you try, then you are upsetting them for raising those issues. In their minds, they are simply acting out how THEY feel. They don't have empathy because their own feelings are too overwhelming so it's impossible for them to try and think about how someone else feels. They can't understand our hurt. They can't understand how their behaviour impacts on us. Excerpt it was your responsibility to apologise to her for being annoyed in the first place. It was that reaction to everything that would drive me insane. No matter what she did, it was always your fault regardless. Same here. Regardless of what she did, I would always be the one apologizing for raising my concerns with her behaviour. It's crazy making. That sounds like outright manipulation to me. Mine was extremely cunning at manipulating situation to her favor. No love... .just games. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: Trog on January 12, 2015, 08:02:47 AM She obviously wants you back in her life and she was willing to say anything to accomplish that. Do they really feel remorse? From my own experience with my BPD they honestly can't. In their minds, they are not at fault for their own behavior, therefore they didn't do anything wrong. At least that is how my ex explained it. Their reality is not the same as our reality. Nothing is ever their fault! They may the noises but sad to say, they're faking it... To get you back on the hook. Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: JRT on January 12, 2015, 08:22:28 AM Ripped... .you made me think of my ex and apologies... .I recall the only time that she had apologized for anything, ever. It was an accident but she knocked my expensive camera off of a bartop and crashing to the floor. It destroyed a component and I was not happy. Even though it was an accident, it was a bit careless and caused damaged. Even though I didn't abuse her and just told her to be more careful, she defended herself pretty ardently. It was only after 10 minutes or so that she offered me a sincere apology... .it seemed like it was the toughest thing she ever had to do. Is that a BPD thing? I don't know if it's completely a BPD thing as I know many non's who have issues apologising for things too. I know BPDgf does apologise but finds it extremely difficult but exN/BPDw would never apologise for anything. She always found a way to turn it back on you and it being your fault. So in the case of your camera, she would have made it your fault for putting in a place where it could be knocked over. Then when you show you are unhappy, she would rage at your reaction because had you not been incompetent, she wouldn't have knocked it over in the first place, therefore it was your responsibility to apologise to her for being annoyed in the first place. It was that reaction to everything that would drive me insane. No matter what she did, it was always your fault regardless. I do see glimpses of that with BPDgf, but she does at least feel bad about things even when you respond with "It's ok, accidents can happen", I sometimes feel that the apology isn't so much for us but to stop their own bad feelings so it can come across as insincere. It's kind of like they aren't sorry that we are hurt or upset about something, they are sorry because they are feeling bad and want that feeling to stop. Well as you would guess, she was always the victim. Bad things that were big and small, were always someone else s fault. But with this incident, I saw something unusual. She struggled with it, awkwardly deflecting blame at first, THEN after contemplation then an awkward apology. VERY awkward. Although she never really mentioned it, or her thought process about it, it is almost that she overcame her inability to accept responsibility and blame right before my eyes. Mine was a waif, and not altogether a horrible relationship. Matter of fact, it was a good one. But I saw problems like this one gurgle underneath the surface. It was just a matter of time... . Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: paperlung on January 12, 2015, 11:53:28 AM Wait, so all the times she told me through email/text that she feels awful/terrible/empathy/regret for what she did to me wasn't at all genuine?
Title: Re: How come she never apologized to my face? Post by: JRT on January 12, 2015, 11:59:47 AM I wish that I could answer that... .possibly yes, possibly no. I think that it depends upon the person and what 'state' they were in when they said it. This is something that I am struggling with as well: was it all real or fake? Did she say the things she said only because they were functional OR that they felt like love or FELT like an apology... .
|