BPDFamily.com

I have been going though some old emails and chat sessions that I saved... .boy is it an enlightening experience.  It is helping me, as I progress in detaching, to add to the list of reasons why I should never ever get pulled into any recycling attempt.

Long story short: she finally admitted to an affair at the beginning of May (2014). It began as an emotional affair around November 2012; they had sex for a week around February of 2013, but then she (supposedly) stopped having sex with him. However, they remained in contact up through May 2014.  

Furious, I told her wanted her to move out - but then got pulled back in by the "vulnerable child" persona (I'm embarrassed by this but it's the truth). We tried to work on the r/s through June but, even though she told me that she wanted to work on things (that she loved me, that she went n/c with him) I still was unsettled and an emotional train wreck.  When I told her that I needed more verbal reassurances from her over dinner one night, she broke up with me via email the next day - this at the beginning of July 2014.  Her email said, in part:

_____________________________________________________________________________________

":)on't get me wrong.  I'm not expecting you to be where I am in this.  For me, a lot of what I did is "over".  For you, given the recently confirmed actions, it's all fresh.  I would never expect you to hide your pain.  Because I understand it... .because I truly get it... .I have answered every single question no matter when you have chosen to ask it (e.g., via text while I'm at work, late at night, at breakfast, at dinner, etc.,etc).  I fully understand you're speaking from a place of PTSD and, as a result, it will take time to heal.  I also understand PTSD results in an emotional roller coaster.   I have been consistently here for you through this process; well, especially the past month.  I have repeatedly and consistently told you that I have been working on this, that I love you, that I want this to work, that I believe in us, etc., etc."

_____________________________________________________________________________________

However, I recently discovered that exactly 3 weeks before sending this email, when we were ostensibly "working on the r/s", as she "loved me," as she "wanted this to work," as she "believed in us," - she set up a meetup.com profile for herself. She even told me about it at the time - she had joined a vegetarian meetup group.  What she didn't know was that all the "interests" she had checked off in creating her profile were completely public.  The first two interests listed on her profile?

Speed dating and dating and relationships.

How many of you have had this experience - this talking out of both sides of their mouths?

All I know is that mine had his "special friendship" with a total tramp and even though he would talk to me like an idiot child telling me "she's just a friend" he could never once explain to me why I was not allowed to go along whenever he would take the thing out for meals etc.  <This happened all the time.  He also didn't find anything wrong with telling me how "hot" he thinks she is. Then would turn around and say he isn't into her.  Cake eating for sure.

Hah. I remember actually saying that phrase to my ex: "You want to have your cake and eat it too."

My ex basically lived like a hermit when I met her. Didn't work, didn't go to school, saw no one, rarely left her room. The only time she left her place was with me. She even admitted to me that she kept in touch with two of her ex-boyfriends because she had hardly nobody to talk to.

I, on the other hand, lived a very different life. I was going to college, had a job, had friends, and had a very loving family to go home too. She was living at home with her father, but they had an estranged relationship. He was weird.

Speeding things along, my ex wanted to try cam modeling to make money. She was quite successful at it. She ended up befriending this 40-year-old man from England off the site she worked for (he was one of her regular viewers). Keep in mind my and ex and I lived in North America and he was twice her age. He wasn't much to look at either. I wasn't concerned. They would chat a lot though when I wasn't around due to work/school. He apparently was recovering from a back surgery so he was on a leave of absence from work and had lots of time to chat with my ex on Skype.

Months go by, and they seem to be getting closer. Finally, my ex asks me if she could meet him (have him come visit) and I say no. Not too long after that, she tells me she loves him and wants to see him so she breaks up with me. That same night, she calls her ex-boyfriend up. He comes over and sleeps with her. Figure that one out. Just one big emotional mess. She calls me up the next day to tell me what she did. Says all this stuff about not feeling right mentally, needing my help, ect.

I take her back, but still suspect something is going on between her and Mr. England. So I log into her Skype (I knew her password) and I read their chat log. What I found ripped my heart apart. She was telling him how badly she loves/wants to be with him but was afraid to leave me because she knows how useful I am. By useful I mean: I can drive. I was simply being used at this point. They talked about the sexual things they would do once they were together, places they would visit, ect. I read all of this the night before my finals. I also found out they were having cyber sex via webcam. I was a nervous wreck. The next day after my finals I go over to her place to tell her I knew what was going on and that I was breaking up with her for good.

Couple days later Mr. England took a plane over to see her. The slept together and the following morning she rings me up to tell me she made a big mistake and wants me back because she loves me. He flies home, I foolishly take her back again, and then she starts to miss him! Now she's confused on who she wants. I'm like, "This is beyond insanity. I'm leaving. Bye." She then asks Mr. England to fly back to be with her and he does! A week later she makes him go home again because she suddenly realizes how crazy she is being and that he isn't going to be able to fix/help her. She asks for my help again.

At this point, I'm pretty worn out, but tell her if she needs me to drive her to therapy I will (she doesn't drive). Guess what happens next? She starts getting close with somebody new off the site she works for (he's from another country as well)! She tells me he's going to come visit and that if they hit it off she would move to The States to be with him. I then went NC.


In the end, she was using Mr. England for emotional support and me for physical support (physical company, helping her get groceries, helping her clean her place, driving her where she wanted to go, ect). I remember times sitting next to her on the couch or in bed and she would get a message from him and she would smile while reading it. Tore me up inside.

Three letters:  WTF

Sure she can have her cake, thrown in her face that is  :)

Three letters:  WTF[/quote]
I know, right? I'm still mad at myself for allowing it go on as long as it did. Problem was, it was my first relationship (I was 22). I was inexperienced and didn't know what I wanted. What a learning experience!

*itches do as they do. They want the cake the sides they want it all. Oh yea and you must pay with your soul.

 lol lol lol lol

Thanks guys I really needed this tonight. I am super sick and feeling down and for some reason this thread totally made my day.

I am so sorry you all experienced these horrible things. Really. None of you deserved any of this.  :'(

I just wanted to write and say that  the "you want to have your cake and eat it too' expression drove my ex nuts. Apparently his ex wife told him that. Then one day at about year 2 of our relationship I understood why. Now it should be said that his ex wife is a real piece of work. Like seriously I wouldn't wish her on my worst enemy. But it does make you wonder how all these people that suffer with BPD can be so darn similar. Cake and eat it too. Yup I have definately said and hear that one a few to many times. If I said it to him it pretty much brought on immediate rage.   Should have been a sign I know.

Hugs to you all and may you all find wonderful partners who are worthy and deserving of the love you have to share.   

Jhk

One thing i realized about my ex is she would play her attachments against each other to create the space for her identity offloading her bad feelings in a way that the attachments would boost her up. That the truth was somewhere in between all of these interactions was everywhere and nowhere like a phantom.

Man, a lot of these stories are rough. Stuff of nightmares when you think about it.

I remember some of the things she would text to other dudes when I looked at her phone. There's no going back from any of that stuff. Somewhere throughout the time I spent with her, part of me died. Strangely enough, I don't miss it now that it's gone.

Anyway yeah there were emotional affairs, physical ones and what have you. There may have been others that I'll never know about. I'd say "good riddance" but to be fair, she was the best relationship I had. I don't mean that as a joke, and I don't say that with nostalgia. What I mean is, looking back it was objectively better than previous ones. When I was in it, I felt alone. Now that I'm out, I feel just as alone but in a different way.

Gotta stay away from her though. Let's say hypothetically we recycle. Not gonna happen, but lets say it does... .

I will know that whatever she whispers in my ear, she is whispering to someone else when I'm not around. I'll always know that at some point she ___ed another guy, because when she came home she would yell at me. Yup. I'll sit there and take it, too.

Right now, there's someone who likes me, thinks I'm handsome, and laughs at my dumb jokes. Might as well go for it, for now at least. I may not have the much attraction to this new person, but at least she's nice. Even if it's only someone that lasts a few months, at least I'll have that to show for how far I've come, and I'll do my best not to be hurtful if I decide I want out. I won't leave this person with memories of infidelity, or abuse. If I decide after a while I'm not into it, there won't be any collateral damage. I'm all about clean exits.

So yeah, I don't want to go back to my BPDEX, I'm done. I've been NC for six months, I'm not about to ruin all that hard work. Although to be frank, remaining NC wasn't that difficult, there wasn't any temptation. Plus I feel like she never wanted me so I don't feel like having my self-esteem damaged further. Plus all those nightmares I have with her in them, and I've been having lots of those, the nightmares keep me away because they could quickly turn into reality. No thanks.

... .I think I'm rambling.

":)on't get me wrong.  I'm not expecting you to be where I am in this.  For me, a lot of what I did is "over".  For you, given the recently confirmed actions, it's all fresh.  I would never expect you to hide your pain.  Because I understand it... .because I truly get it... .I have answered every single question no matter when you have chosen to ask it (e.g., via text while I'm at work, late at night, at breakfast, at dinner, etc.,etc).  I fully understand you're speaking from a place of PTSD and, as a result, it will take time to heal.  I also understand PTSD results in an emotional roller coaster."

Amazing what she creates and then she pretends to have empathy as she admits, you'll be "fresh" in shock, experiencing PTSD and as the result of her actions you will be on a rollercoaster of emotions. Just a day in the park for her!

Mine sent the email of our engagement ending/break up and said, "don't get personal on me." No talking... .I was in total shock. 8 years and over in an email. Replacement in waiting... .

This is interesting but confusing in parts - can you explain it a little more?

I feel the same way... .but it upsets me.  Like an innocence lost that will never return.  I think that's the thing that I find the hardest to forgive her for - in many ways, she destroyed the trust I have in people in general.


  This is so true! Being lonely when you're with someone is awful.  I feel alone now, but without gnawing anxiety in the pit of my stomach.


Yup.  Deal breaker. Game done, lights out.


Me too... .even though I've gone through horrible stretches of missing her, I've never ever been tempted to pick up the phone... .

Imagine each of a BPDs attachments( friends, partners, etc) are like a mirror for the pwBPD and each of these attachments sort of create a boundary or reference point and between all these points is the pwBPDs sense of self.  From all these reference points the pwBPD takes and offloads and gives energy often pitting two reference points against each other in order to keep that space from being destroyed that sense of self from being destroyed.

Exactly what I was experiencing during the last few months.  I kept thinking to myself that I feel so alone and yet I am in a "relationship".  It's terrible to feel that alone when you are still with the person.  I think it is because we have already been left by them emotionally.  That's where that feeling starts.

E*X*A*C*T*L*Y

Is this voulnerable child persona a real attempt to show feelings or just manipulation?

I was given this expression , and i felt it was real in the moment , but her actions around did not support it, did she get it in the "now", and forgot about it ... .?  


Hard to say.


She wanted me to always come to her working place when she saw me in person, but never attempted to call or contact me when i was elsewhere. She said please come to my place and took the voulnerable child mask, it actually felt she become another person , like the 6yo version of her self.

It is a maladaptive way of operating in the world to get what they need. My exBPDgf was primarily in the "vulnerable child mode" for several years after we moved in together - until she switched to the angry and/or impulsive child mode.  EVERYONE operates in one mode or another - and there is a "healthy adult" mode too.

From schema therapy:

"A schema mode represents "those schemas, coping responses, or healthy behaviors that are currently active for an individual". A schema mode is activated when particular schemas or coping responses have erupted into strong emotions or rigid coping styles that take over and control an individual's functioning.  

An individual may shift from one schema mode into another; as that shift occurs, different schemas or coping responses,  previously dormant, become active.  

Viewed in a slightly different way, a schema mode is:  a facet of the self, involving specific schemas or coping responses, that has not been fully integrated with other facets.  According to this perspective,  schema modes can be characterized by the degree to which a particular schema mode state has become dissociated, or cut off, from an individual's other modes.  A schema mode, therefore, is a part of the self that is cut off, to some degree, from other aspects of the self... .

One important goal of Schema Therapy is to teach patients how to strengthen their Healthy Adult mode,  so that they can learn to navigate, negotiate with,  nurture, or neutralize their other modes.

www.schematherapy.com/id61.htm

www.schematherapy.com/id72.htm

I really learned someting from this, thankyou.

Myself at that moment was convinced about she got two uncomplete multiple personalities, as i saw only "child mode" and healty adult mode. Yes multiple personalities but more correlated.

She also copied my personality like facial expressions, when I broke with her , she became empty , started looking for a new personality she could become. This made me think she got uncomple peersonas, as she needed supply from me.

I do know a woman having multiple personalities, but they act more as complete independent masks, she swiches between them and each persona has its own characteristics, facial expression, moods, etc.

Anyway i always felt that her modes where involved when she tried to take control over my behaviour, while the latter complete multiple persona case was more introspective.

Regress, next time I will choose a more easy going woman.

About a year before we broke up I started becoming very aware of my exBPDgf's different modes... .and I too thought she might be DID (multiple personality), especially because she was describing memory loss at the time (which is a hallmark sign of DID).  But it never quite fit, and as I learned more about Family Systems and Schema Therapy the explanation of "modes" made much more sense.

From what I understand, people with BPD have to opposing fears:  the fear of abandonment (hence the vulnerable child mode) which leads them to become "engulfed" by us:  fusion = no abandonment!  But there is also an equal but opposite fear that they will never form a fully autonomous "self," and that causes them to push us away.  They are desperately trying to figure out who they are (so they can form a "self" - and they "try on" the personalities of the people around them. 

The very last time I ever saw my exBPDgf we were having dinner, and she said something that was so completely uncharacteristic of how she would handle people that worked for her (and entirely characteristic of something that I would say) that I nearly fell out of my chair.

That's BPD.

Am I partially correct if I state we all use these modes as mentioned in more light form , as we progress trough different roles like parent, friend, student, employee,   as they help us cope with the roles we have chosen to master?

I don't think that's quite right... .

"Schema modes are the moment-to-moment emotional states and coping responses that we all experience.  Often our schema modes are triggered by life situations that we are oversensitive to (our "emotional buttons". 

At any given point in time, some of our schemas, coping responses, and emotional states are inactive, or dormant, while others have become activated by life events and predominate our current mood and behavior.  The predominant state that we are in at a given point in time is called our schema mode. All of us flip from mode to mode over time."

I've taken the Schema Mode questionnaire on this site and operate primarily from "healthy adult" and "happy child" mode.  I can actually "feel" myself switch modes sometimes... .in the summer when I meet a friend at the pool we play "water basketball" - and one of the most enjoyable parts of this experience for me is that I can feel myself slip into happy child mode - and it's fun!  :)  I have a happy, playful child inside that enjoys coming out to play from time to time... .but I do not relate to the world - nor deal with my life and it's problems, in a child mode. I switch to "healthy adult" mode to do that.  But my exBPDgf DOES switch to these maladaptive coping (child-like) modes when triggered or overwhelmed.  And in a strange way, given what I know about her childhood experiences, it actually makes sense to me now.  Because she was worried about losing me in the beginning years of our relationship, what better way to hold on to me than to become vulnerable and needy?  She knew I was a strong, caring, decent person - that's why she chose me in the first place. She knew (on a subconscious level) that I would care for her while she was in that mode. 

In the end it wasn't healthy for either of us, but that's the way it went.

Take a look at some background of schema therapy:

www.schematherapy.com/id30.htm

www.schematherapy.com/id61.htm

and all the modes: 

www.schematherapy.com/id72.htm

I will, you relly have done a great job.

"then got pulled back in by the "vulnerable child" persona (I'm embarrassed by this but it's the truth). We tried to work on the r/s through June but, even though she told me that she wanted to work on things (that she loved me, that she went n/c with him)"

I went through this push-pull cycle for almost a year of hell with my XW until I finally gathered my strength and divorced her.  In "closing the bakery" I deprived her of her all-important "needs" (as she expressed it).  It was my final "No" to a petulant, selfish little girl-woman, and her fury has been unrelenting.  She moved in with her affair-guy replacement and the drama continues.  Her last attempt to recycle back to me was around a year ago, and I said "No" again. 

This was the love of my life and the mother of my children.  To divorce her was the second-most traumatic experience of my life--the most traumatic was remaining in a so-called relationship with her.  These people are deeply damaged and the wounds they inflict on us are so deep.  I miss terribly all the good parts of her, the parts that I fell in love with and married, and of course I miss my family terribly.  But it had to be done.  It is for the best.  Three years after separation and a year after divorce, I still grieve.  But not as much as I did a year ago. The path forward is treacherous and not linear.  But it does move forward. 

Strength.

I told my exBPDbf upfront in the r/s that I didn't care if he slept with other women, just to be open about it. He insisted that he wanted to only be with me. Later he tried to say that I had asked him to be monogamous, and I quickly reminded him that that was his choice, and I respected it, but it wasn't anything I'd ever requested of him or even wanted from him.

He put those expectations and ideals on himself, and then of course he couldn't live up to them, which only added to his self-hate and feelings of failure. To protect himself, he had to view me as the persecutor, forcing him into a commitment that went against his nature.   

The moral of this story is -- it doesn't matter what you do, how much freedom you give... .they will be shady and you will become the bad guy.

downwhim, you said, "He was so... .immature about it all. Like he got off sneaking around." This is how my ex was, too. Perhaps they get a feeling of power and control over their environment in doing so?


This is what I miss the most, too. And so that's what broke my heart the most... .losing that feeling.

----------

They are desperately trying to figure out who they are (so they can form a "self" - and they "try on" the personalities of the people around them.

-----------'


This is exactly my conclusion also, both my BPD encounters resulted in the subject became empty in their personality traits when we broke up, just like a empty shell. In both encounters their inner core a childish version of them self shine trough. My personality could not be utilized anymore, so no reason to make use of it, better to start looking for a new supply.

Let me break it down in simple terms.

They can eat cake and you can eat S#*T.

I'm not entirely sure if my X physically cheated or not.  There may have been 1 potential occurrence but that's neither here nor there.  Emotionally or through text message is a different story.  While I don’t have actual proof I do have my gut, and I promised myself I would NEVER disregard that again.  She had me, someone who told her day in and day out she was loved, someone who made sure she had everything she needed and then some, yet still was always on that phone.  I am sure she was painting me as some sort of monster. 

I wanted to take time and reply to the blurb by your ex where she states, “For me most of what I did is over.”  Isn’t that sweet?  I relate to you because after my ex blew my world to bits and pieces, she had the balls to say... .”Sometimes I forget all of what I put you threw.” 

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?  How you FORGET?  How do you forget planning a future with me?  How do you forget planning a vacation with me? How do you forget telling me I was the love of your life?  How do you forget giving me a 3 day notice you were moving out of state?  How do you forget telling me you were in love with me and wanted to do a LD relationship?  How do you forget 1 month later you tell me your feelings have changed and you can’t do this anymore, when the night before you told me how in love with me you are? 

Then I realized she probably did forget because she doesn’t form the same attachments that I do.  She doesn’t grieve the way that I do.  She has surrounded herself with emotional switches and everything she seems to do is in the moment.  How lucky they are to wander through the day with a peace of mind while we are trying to get through another  day.

All my life I never understood this sentence.

What's so great about having a cake if you weren't going to eat it?

So being in a stable relationship is like having (looking at or holding a cake) and having an affair is like eating a cake!

Who glories in having a cake... .!