Title: Painted black after comment Post by: blackrazor on January 18, 2015, 10:30:23 AM So I have a friend, who I now suspect has BPD. The situation was that I had to leave the country in a month (abandonment trigger?). Things were a bit up and down with her, one day happy, another day distant, another time upset.
I had to go on a 1 week trip away so we didn't see each other for 2 weeks. We met the day before I left and everything was fairly good. However while I was gone we didn't text much, compared to normal. When I got back, we met after a few days and she was extremely distant, I had to do all the talking. Basically like it was a chore seeing me. At this point I decided to confront her on what was going on. I didn't know about BPD yet, but my theory seems fairly correct in hindsight. I told her that she's been very distant lately and that it felt like she was pushing me away on purpose because I had to leave and perhaps maybe its easier for her this way, since it wont hurt as much when I leave. She couldn't deal with this so she literally walked away in the middle of the conversation and left. I followed her for a bit talking and she eventually said that I don't respect her(?) and how can I expect her to respond after saying this, she was visibly upset. She eventually said goodbye and that we can meet tomorrow. So I suggest meeting and she doesn't want to. we eventually have a text argument where I get blamed for lots of things and that she needs space and time and that 'I cant say those things'. I assume I 'cant' say them because they are true and she is denying it... .I keep trying to meet, since adults should be able to sort things out in person. Anyway this gets nowhere, I keep trying but things seem to get worse and worse. She always has an excuse not to meet even though I am leaving soon. And when I confront her about what she's doing and the flaws in her arguments against me, that makes her more angry. Talking logic has no impact. The current situation is that I am leaving in 2 days time. We still haven't met for a month now and I may never see her again, so I am a bit sad to just be forgotten about so suddenly. I strongly suspect she has BPD( from a lot of other behaviours) and me accusing her of pushing me away, has given her ammo to paint me black and ironically, REALY push me away. Any ideas on what to do, I cant force her to meet me afterall? Does this seem like a typical BPD reaction to the situation? I assume the looming factor of me leaving has triggered the abandonment fear. Any opinions would be helpful! Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: Copperfox on January 18, 2015, 10:42:45 AM The best thing to do in any situation like this, BPD or not, is to pull back, give them space and time, and let them come to you. You can't force anyone to do anything, and no one owes you anything. Besides, the best things in life are those given, not those taken.
The more you push, the more she'll run. If you matter to her at all, you will see or talk to her again, eventually.  :)on't let your fears get the best of you. I struggle with that sometimes myself. What is your current game plan? What do you want out of this situation in the long run? Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: blackrazor on January 18, 2015, 11:07:04 AM The best thing to do in any situation like this, BPD or not, is to pull back, give them space and time, and let them come to you. You can't force anyone to do anything, and no one owes you anything. Besides, the best things in life are those given, not those taken. The more you push, the more she'll run. If you matter to her at all, you will see or talk to her again, eventually.  :)on't let your fears get the best of you. I struggle with that sometimes myself. What is your current game plan? What do you want out of this situation in the long run? Normally I wouldn't be forcing the issue so much, but since I am leaving I was kind of compelled to push a bit too hard! And obviously her reaction made no sense, so I was trying hard to figure it out as I have never dealt with a situation like this before. And in the past problems have typically been able to be fixed a lot easier in person, than opposed to via technology! But yeah I agree, so at the moment I have basically given up, since there doesn't seem to be any logic to what is happening or what she is thinking, so acting logically in return is pointless. I have just said when I am leaving so if she wants to meet me she can tell me. I guess long term, I would like to continue being friends, but after reading about BPD and what she has done, I'm starting to doubt if I ever was a friend, or I just fulfilled some need of hers. Obviously a friend treating you like this makes you feel a lot different about the friendship also. Its very strange and confusing. Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: Copperfox on January 18, 2015, 11:15:19 AM Friendships can be tricky with pwBPD. Especially if there was ever any romantic involvement.
It is frustrating when things don't make sense, I know that personally. If you can maintain some detachment, but keep your compassion, kindness, that may be the best you can do. She lives in her own reality. Sounds like you are on the right track. Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: blackrazor on January 18, 2015, 12:26:25 PM Friendships can be tricky with pwBPD. Especially if there was ever any romantic involvement. It is frustrating when things don't make sense, I know that personally. If you can maintain some detachment, but keep your compassion, kindness, that may be the best you can do. She lives in her own reality. Sounds like you are on the right track. Yes I will try and do that. We were actually together at one point and she decided to just be friends. I am somewhat hopeful for her as she has shown signs of self awareness about things, such as saying she thinks too much about things, and she has a lot of things going on inside her head. So at least I think she realises something is different. I'm not sure if mentioning BPD at a later date is a good idea though yet Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: Copperfox on January 18, 2015, 12:37:52 PM I'm not sure if mentioning BPD at a later date is a good idea though yet Yeah, would be very cautious about doing that, it often backfires. The label doesn't matter anyway, only the behaviors. If she is willing/wanting to improve herself, that may a safer conversation, without specifically mentioning BPD. Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: blackrazor on January 18, 2015, 01:24:41 PM I'm not sure if mentioning BPD at a later date is a good idea though yet Yeah, would be very cautious about doing that, it often backfires. The label doesn't matter anyway, only the behaviors. If she is willing/wanting to improve herself, that may a safer conversation, without specifically mentioning BPD. Yes, good point, after all, they are just labels for particular behaviours anyway. I might try this if the opportunity presents itself one day! Thanks for the tips. Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: blackrazor on January 19, 2015, 02:34:57 PM Well, latest update is that I haven't heard anything from my friend, and I have to leave within the day. I'm not sure but it just feels wrong for things to end like this. Would there be any point reaching out one last time?
Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: blackrazor on January 29, 2015, 12:56:31 AM Well I thought I would update. She declined to meet me, so now we are in our separate countries. After the conversation she blocked my number (she had already deleted it off contacts) however, I sent her a whatsapp from my new number which she then added to her contacts! strange! but not really for BPD, maybe I am slightly less black now.
All I received was a bunch of projections, such as I made her fail exams (she hasn't got results), I cause her a lot of pain and she's been very sad, all I think about is myself, I don't respect her, she did everything for me and I don't realise, I made her have the 3 worst months of her life... . Now I need a bit of help translating these projections. The pain and sadness I think is true, I assume it is simply because I am leaving ( abandoning her), which then leads to the failing exams and worst months of her life. the all I think about is myself, maybe=I have to think about me I cant think about you. Not sure about the 'I don't respect her', maybe= she doesn't respect herself. she has said that a lot and it has never made any sense. Anyone have any experience with these projections? Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: Copperfox on January 29, 2015, 08:37:31 AM Projection is a very common BPD behavior, especially towards the end of relationships. I experienced it myself, sometimes blatant projections that were me being accused of things she did. But then again, all of us (even non-BPD) project sometimes.
The key is to depersonalize it. We all live in our own reality, like a theatrical play that takes place inside our heads. pwBPD reality, of course, is something else. A distorted world. And you are like in actor inside her head. The things she says probably have more to do with how she feels, rather than anything you did. Understanding that takes the onus off of you, and puts it on her. Which is where it should be. This is her drama. I'm not sure trying to translate these projections will help much, probably only make your head spin more. Cause it doesn't make sense. And attempting to make sense of the senseless will only serve to drive you crazy. But it's clear to see that she is in pain, has been for months. She is upset/angry/ashamed/etc about failing her exams. She maybe lacks respect for herself for those failures, or life in general. All she thinks about is herself perhaps. Hard to say. But like I said, see beyond the words, depersonalize them ... .they reflect something she feels very deep inside, some sort of turmoil ... .she just doesn't deal with those feelings appropriately and they come out like pointed barbs, with you the target. Best thing for you to do here, IMO, is pull back, give her space. Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: blackrazor on January 29, 2015, 05:48:30 PM Yes, well we live a long way away from each other now, so she will have lots of space, I don't plan on making anymore contact electronically either. I guess I've always been a problem solver, but as you said there is no logic to solve this, so it makes your head spin! The funny part is she doesn't actually know her score on these exams yet, but she has failed exams previously so perhaps that is the reason.
I don't know it is hard, I still care about her, on one hand what she has done has been very hurtful, but knowing what I do now I can forgive her! I think she is a good person deep down, so perhaps one day we will sort things out. Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: Splitblack4good on January 31, 2015, 03:22:04 AM Yes, well we live a long way away from each other now, so she will have lots of space, I don't plan on making anymore contact electronically either. I guess I've always been a problem solver, but as you said there is no logic to solve this, so it makes your head spin! The funny part is she doesn't actually know her score on these exams yet, but she has failed exams previously so perhaps that is the reason. I don't know it is hard, I still care about her, on one hand what she has done has been very hurtful, but knowing what I do now I can forgive her! I think she is a good person deep down, so perhaps one day we will sort things out. PwBPD there feelings = facts If she has failed exams before and already said she's failed them again without results then she has got a feeling that she has failed so in her mind it's a fact ther inner turmoil is filled with lows and dissapointment my ex BPDgf would talk about being dissapointed about something before it happened and was negative about almost everything even if something went well or ther were lots of positive feelings or actions that were cleary present but the pwBPD feels dissapointed with ppl and events because of ther deep core trauma that stems from childhood for example my ex was dissapointed with her parents as they gave her up from new born to the age of 6 to her grandparents and have not explained why they did this do my ex has got the emotionial development of a 6 year old and did not have her loving nurturing needs met that she should of done from her mother and her father was a cheat drank to much and had an affair and left with another women when my ex was 11 so she's had a rough past now I know she has BPD I pity her to some degree and can see why she treated me so badly and that her behaviour was the way it was however I am not making excuses for her because some of her behaviour was controllable and had no need to do what she did . My ex did feel guilt aswell as shame and there were moments she would look at me and say sorry or explain she knows why what she done was wrong but she can't sustaine self awareness like that for long and would make the same hurtful mistake again 2 months later and would deny all knowledge of even having the conversation you had 2 months prior were she admitted it was wrong . My experience let your freind make contact with you and don't chase her I chased my ex after we split and it just enables them more and pushes them away further as soon as I went NC to heal 14/15 days later she text me ! So it proves if you give them space and time they often come back or make contact . Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: blackrazor on January 31, 2015, 04:10:01 AM PwBPD there feelings = facts If she has failed exams before and already said she's failed them again without results then she has got a feeling that she has failed so in her mind it's a fact ther inner turmoil is filled with lows and dissapointment my ex BPDgf would talk about being dissapointed about something before it happened and was negative about almost everything even if something went well or ther were lots of positive feelings or actions that were cleary present but the pwBPD feels dissapointed with ppl and events because of ther deep core trauma that stems from childhood for example my ex was dissapointed with her parents as they gave her up from new born to the age of 6 to her grandparents and have not explained why they did this do my ex has got the emotionial development of a 6 year old and did not have her loving nurturing needs met that she should of done from her mother and her father was a cheat drank to much and had an affair and left with another women when my ex was 11 so she's had a rough past now I know she has BPD I pity her to some degree and can see why she treated me so badly and that her behaviour was the way it was however I am not making excuses for her because some of her behaviour was controllable and had no need to do what she did . My ex did feel guilt aswell as shame and there were moments she would look at me and say sorry or explain she knows why what she done was wrong but she can't sustaine self awareness like that for long and would make the same hurtful mistake again 2 months later and would deny all knowledge of even having the conversation you had 2 months prior were she admitted it was wrong . My experience let your freind make contact with you and don't chase her I chased my ex after we split and it just enables them more and pushes them away further as soon as I went NC to heal 14/15 days later she text me ! So it proves if you give them space and time they often come back or make contact . Yes interesting point, she definitely did turn feelings into facts sometimes. I mean that is how to whole 'I cause pain' works, she feels that, then for that feeling to be true I must have done something bad. Hopefully if she will contact me it is when she is being somewhat self aware, I have definitely seen her self aware on a few occasions before. Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: hergestridge on January 31, 2015, 04:32:46 AM Yes, it's true that the more you chase the more she'll run. But on the other hand, how much of your time is she going to waste? I really regret not leaving my wife once the hating began, but at the time I just thought she had "issues" and that she needed time and space. The only thing she used the time and space for was to paint me more black.
Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: christoff522 on January 31, 2015, 08:44:51 PM So I have a friend, who I now suspect has BPD. The situation was that I had to leave the country in a month (abandonment trigger?). Things were a bit up and down with her, one day happy, another day distant, another time upset. I had to go on a 1 week trip away so we didn't see each other for 2 weeks. We met the day before I left and everything was fairly good. However while I was gone we didn't text much, compared to normal. When I got back, we met after a few days and she was extremely distant, I had to do all the talking. Basically like it was a chore seeing me. At this point I decided to confront her on what was going on. I didn't know about BPD yet, but my theory seems fairly correct in hindsight. I told her that she's been very distant lately and that it felt like she was pushing me away on purpose because I had to leave and perhaps maybe its easier for her this way, since it wont hurt as much when I leave. She couldn't deal with this so she literally walked away in the middle of the conversation and left. I followed her for a bit talking and she eventually said that I don't respect her(?) and how can I expect her to respond after saying this, she was visibly upset. She eventually said goodbye and that we can meet tomorrow. So I suggest meeting and she doesn't want to. we eventually have a text argument where I get blamed for lots of things and that she needs space and time and that 'I cant say those things'. I assume I 'cant' say them because they are true and she is denying it... .I keep trying to meet, since adults should be able to sort things out in person. Anyway this gets nowhere, I keep trying but things seem to get worse and worse. She always has an excuse not to meet even though I am leaving soon. And when I confront her about what she's doing and the flaws in her arguments against me, that makes her more angry. Talking logic has no impact. The current situation is that I am leaving in 2 days time. We still haven't met for a month now and I may never see her again, so I am a bit sad to just be forgotten about so suddenly. I strongly suspect she has BPD( from a lot of other behaviours) and me accusing her of pushing me away, has given her ammo to paint me black and ironically, REALY push me away. Any ideas on what to do, I cant force her to meet me afterall? Does this seem like a typical BPD reaction to the situation? I assume the looming factor of me leaving has triggered the abandonment fear. Any opinions would be helpful! First things first, texting is just an excuse not to meet up with someone for a conversation, its lazy. My suggestion is this, forget your suspicions about her having BPD, judge her on the face of her actions and don't pussy foot around. If you can not even say to her "I feel you're pushing me away", then it's time to move on. I have a friend who has BPD (male) and we've been friends for almost 15 years, every few years something dramatic occurs and he vanishes for a while, then a few months later he will pop up and the friendship carries on. I know two people with BPD - one male (diagnosed) and one female (undiagnosed). The female is a former romantic attachment and even though she's laughably engaged to someone at the moment, she still pops up from time to time seeking attention. My advice to you, forget about the disorder, its an excuse for bad behaviour, they ALL know right from wrong. If she's messing you about - drop her. Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: blackrazor on February 01, 2015, 05:16:43 PM First things first, texting is just an excuse not to meet up with someone for a conversation, its lazy. My suggestion is this, forget your suspicions about her having BPD, judge her on the face of her actions and don't pussy foot around. If you can not even say to her "I feel you're pushing me away", then it's time to move on. I have a friend who has BPD (male) and we've been friends for almost 15 years, every few years something dramatic occurs and he vanishes for a while, then a few months later he will pop up and the friendship carries on. I know two people with BPD - one male (diagnosed) and one female (undiagnosed). The female is a former romantic attachment and even though she's laughably engaged to someone at the moment, she still pops up from time to time seeking attention. My advice to you, forget about the disorder, its an excuse for bad behaviour, they ALL know right from wrong. If she's messing you about - drop her. Yes I agree, her texting is just avoiding the confrontation, I think because she knows what I said was true. Initially I did judge it on face value, but to be honest nothing made any sense. At least after learning bout BPD it gives me some closure, because who knows if I will ever get it from her, probably not! And it explains a lot of the strange things that have happened in the past, although small in isolation, when you combine them they form a bigger picture. But it doesn't excuse what she did, it was very hurtful, but you could sense the conflict inside her even before all this happens, so I'm sure she is well aware how hurtful it was. Logically yes, it would be easier to just drop her, but emotions and feelings are a serious problem for this Another interesting thing I forgot to mention. Many months ago before this happened she told me a story about a friend she used to have. I believed what she said at the time. But after she stoped talking to me, I got thinking and the situation was almost identical to mine, it was like predicting the future. The only difference was that she was the victim in the story. He stopped talking to HER, he refused to meet HER, also they ran each other once and 'he ran away'. I don't know this other person, he may not have a been a good guy, maybe there was a good reason to paint him black who knows... .But somehow I think the true story was that it played out the same as with me! do you think her negative emotions towards him were projected onto me? I do know she blamed the situation with him for failing some previous exams, which she proceeded to do with me as well! Title: Re: Painted black after comment Post by: Copperfox on February 02, 2015, 07:55:59 AM Another interesting thing I forgot to mention. Many months ago before this happened she told me a story about a friend she used to have. I believed what she said at the time. But after she stoped talking to me, I got thinking and the situation was almost identical to mine, it was like predicting the future. The only difference was that she was the victim in the story. He stopped talking to HER, he refused to meet HER, also they ran each other once and 'he ran away'. I don't know this other person, he may not have a been a good guy, maybe there was a good reason to paint him black who knows... .But somehow I think the true story was that it played out the same as with me! do you think her negative emotions towards him were projected onto me? I do know she blamed the situation with him for failing some previous exams, which she proceeded to do with me as well! If you listen closely, they do tell you "who they are", even in the early weeks/months of the relationship. You look back, and you can see him/her relating stories to you that would eventually become your own. As you say, they often twist the details ... .I think part of the thing that keeps us ruminating so long is the slow, steady illumination of lightbulbs as we realize many of the distortions. Many of the things they accused others of were actually things they did themselves. A big part of moving on from, at least for me, has been realizing that I really need to pay more attention when people "tell me who they are" early on. Listen closely, read between the lines. |