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I always have the hardest time dancing around the reality of their mom's mental illness when talking to the kids about her. A conversation I had with D11 a couple of days ago is a perfect example. And I really need some feedback on how to handle direct questions in a non-alienating, but also non-lying kind of way.

The background is that DH has residential custody out of state from their BPD mom after a long and nasty court battle. The BPD's parenting time is pretty limited both by distance and by the order. She is given no summer parenting time in her state except by agreement of the parties. And needles to say, the BPD mom hasn't done what she was legally required to do (get counseling) or what was in the best interests of the kids on her limited parenting time in her state so far (practicality moving the kids into the house of her new BF of less than two months during Christmas break). So, DH is unlikely to agree to any parenting time in her state for the summer. And it appears their mom has already brought this up with the kids.

So, SD11 hit me with a curve ball. ":)addy said he'd always try to be fair with mom. But when we lived with mom daddy got us for six weeks in the summer. How is not giving our mom the same time fair?"

So, naturally there were about ten different inappropriate answers that went through my head ranging from 'actually it is fair because your mom owes your dad time for that year and a half she wouldn't let your dad see or speak to you' to 'if your mom did what she was supposed to do, you'd be able to go.'

Instead I settled for, "Well, nothing has been decided about summer yet, and it isn't just up to your dad. So we'll have to wait and see." I think this answer is pretty lame, but maybe I couldn't have done better. What do you think?

 You handled it well!  Simple answer for simple ,eleven year old, mind.  Too much information makes it hard to process and another story/questions can get back to bio mom.   You know your SD's intellect level but it sounds like bio mom speaking through her.

Your answer now gives you time to adsorb the question and think about it.

Do you think her comment/question was really hers or do you think that mom may have put that "thought" in her head. Sorry I'm not sure if they don't have communication over the phone where the mom could have said this.

I think the way what you said is fine since you aren't sure about summer yet, and you're right it isn't just up to dad. Others things you could've said or could circle back on are

I would handle like this.

SD I can see why you think that might not be fair (validates her feelings) do you think dad is fair when it comes to things regarding you and mom? Let her guide the convo. If they are really her thoughts about it being fair you could then say "dad really wants you to see mom over summer but the good grown ups in your life have to do certain things in order for that to happen. If those things don't happen dad has to make the tough choice since he is always looking at what is best for you.  

I like that. For some reason it didn't occur to me at the time that it was likely her mom's words coming out of her mouth. We haven't given the kids any reason to think they won't go to their mom's this summer. But I'm sure that's an anxiety the BPD has. Although in her mind it's based on the fact that DH can get away with not sending them and that he is mean like that rather than because she's not doing what is best for the kids.

That was perfect.

You handled it well! Those kinds of questions always throw me. My go-to strategy when I feel defensive is to answer S13's questions with a question, to try and understand more about what his initial question is about. At the very least, it buys me a little time.    Or I might ask how he feels about what he just asked. That's usually what he cares about anyway.

If it is a question coming from biomom, SD11 probably would answer as though she hadn't really thought about how she felt.

"It sounds like you don't think it's fair. Are you worried about how much time you'll have to see bio mom?"

I think your H can follow up if you want to address it. If SD11 is genuinely worried, it might be worth having him revisit. ":)11, are you worried about how much time you'll have with biomom this year?" It's hard to do these conversations because we're often a bit afraid that we'll take the conversation to the deep end.

When I finally talked to S13 about his dad, I said something like, "There are a lot of grown-ups helping me and N/BPDx to figure out what is best. When two people don't agree, other people try to work together as a team, and together we came up with a plan. N/BPDx is having a hard time following that plan. I don't know why. I think he has a hard time when he feels sad, and he doesn't always do things to take care of himself. If he learns how to do that, he might not feel so sad and angry, and maybe he won't keep doing things that hurt himself and the people he loves. But he's a grown up and he's the only one who can make those changes."

Sometimes I think we worry too much about alienation. Real alienation is a campaign. Talking honestly is possible if we present it in terms of logical consequences when people struggle with their emotions. More often what we're trying to do is minimize a loyalty bind, or ideally, give the kids a fair and healthy view of their disordered parent. The truth is, our disordered exes do have a hard time managing their feelings, and they often experience consequences that make things worse for themselves. Like losing visitation.

My son is also very intense about me being genuine. And I'm realizing that being genuine is very different than giving him all the details. Lately, I find myself doing this move that goes something like "my genuine feelings + how I am managing those feelings." Or "my genuine feelings + my take on logical consequences for bad behavior."