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My W tried to force me out of the bed tonight to sleep on the sofa. I said "no"

She took the pillows away. I said "no".

She tried to keep waking me up, I said "no".

She begged me to sleep somewhere else. I said "no"

She phoned a family friend who then phoned me to say "Moselle respect your wife's space". I said "I do respect her space and her feelings. I'm sorry she's having a hard time but it has nothing to do with me. I'll be sleeping in my bed tonight"

W took all the pillows and the duvet and went to the lounge.

She kept coming back into the bedroom and turning the lights on. After 3 times I took the light bulbs out.

AND I DIDN'T CAVE IN. I'm proud of myself.

Moselle, good for you.  But for me, I opted to stay away from the bedroom.  My NPDw has very unpredictable rages … for example, she uses her computer and phone all the time in bed and when we used to sleep in the same bed (like 3 years ago), I am all cool with her using electronic stuff in bed and i can even fall asleep with TV on.  After 12 years of being together and didn't have problem with electronics, all of a sudden she raged about my use of smart phone and this went on for weeks.  Eventually, I found an excuse and got the heck out of the bedroom.  I am so much happier not having to share a same bed with her … it is like a little prison ... I have to watch out for every little movement because I don't her to flip out.  If your W really has PD, my thought is that this will not be the end of it.  So be careful and good luck!

Pou.  Thanks for your note! She has PD alright.  NPD and BPD. I also prefer to sleep apart,  but this is about not caving. I may choose to sleep apart and often do. But it is my choice and not because she forced me. This is not about where we sleep. It is about the fact that I won't be pushed around. She is learning that I will not cave in and she may choose to leave as per her threats.  But I will stand tall having given it my best

 |iiii Good for you, sticking to what you wanted.

I am wondering... .with all the fighting before she left the bedroom, and turning on the lights, etc... .would you have slept more peacefully on the couch?

Yes GK. I would have. And I probably would have avoided the fallout which will likely happen tomorrow, but my message is clear - 2015 is different. I won't be bullied out of the bed or the house. I won't be spoken to disrepectfully. If that's what she needs/wants she can move on. I've done this for 5 years now and accepted inhuman treatment. Physical abuse (until I walked out 1 year ago) and now emotional and verbal abuse. No more.

We're in MC and I'm not prescriptive about where this goes anymore. It might mean divorce and I accept that.

I've been accomodating her requests until now, and I'm growing a healthy self respect that says. "Why should I accept her version of normal" I don't accept it, so why should I accommodate her.

You sound angry... .and that is probably a good thing--you have legitimate things to be angry about, and the anger gives you energy to do something about it. All very good things.

I am concerned that you are making fights bigger than they need to be though. The best boundary enforcement actions are ones that get you out of the confrontation immediately, not ones that force her to back down.

And absolutely... .do NOT take verbal and emotional abuse from her. Protect yourself from it by removing yourself from it.

Be very careful of this fight sleep deprevation is one of BPDs fortes I would consider taking your pillows an blankets an tell her you will sleep somewhere else tonight the psychology of this is obvious but only return if you get some undertaking for a reasonable nights sleep ( probably should state the obvious one you take control of the situation which they hate, and your ex has to determine weather she can stand being alone for the night at your behest )

It is amazing. When you read something and it is almost exactly word for word what happens to you. It is strange to think about all of us sharing similar experiences. My BPDgf has performed this act many times and I have never had the balls to stay. I always cave. So good on you.

Moselle I am so happy for you. I totally get where you are coming from.

It makes me think of a foster child from years ago. I would carry him to his room and close the door when he was acting out. He would rage (a 2 year old rage) and come out. I would calmly carry him back in and close the door again. His first few days with me this went on and on and on. It was exhausting. But I was predictable and consistent and eventually he learned nothing was going to change. Finally when he would get upset he would leap up and declare "I my room!" and off he would stomp for his own timeout. He would cry or rage alone is his room for a few minutes then this little face would poke out the door and ask "I happy now, I come ok?" I would calmly say ok and he would race over for a hug all smiles. It was wonderful.

Now I in no way want to compare your wife to a 2 year old but somehow it brought the little guy to mind. I hope the story can give you a smile. I think you did great to outlast the extinction burst. Remember that the behaviour tends to get worse before it gets better so you may be in for round two. None the less you will eventually persevere. 

Mathilda,  Hope2727,

Thanks so much for the support.

She indeed reminded me of a 2 year old. I had that very thought when it all happened.

She's still throwing toys BTW

I'm just waiting for "I my room" :-)

Hi Moselle,

I was wondering how much are your children exposed to what is going on and I suppose if you continue to ' not cave in' how the repercussions of this play out for them ? ( given that your wife is continuing this today )

I know that my tactics with my dBPDh take a very different route because I factor in our s6 to everything I do in relation to my h's BPD. ( I am not suggesting that you don't do this for your children ) I leave many more things because of our son than I would do if we had no children.

I also know that when my h needs to vent or expel his chaos he will find a way no matter what I choose to do, so for me with this in mind the solution that offers the most amount of peace for us as a family is to withdraw and not be exposed to escalating abuse and accept that this is the route of the disorder that I have chosen to live with. This also now (usually) short circuits any escalation or continuation, which is a huge change for us.

I wonder if there are any alternative resolutions to explore that still allow you to feel like you haven't completely given in.

Yes, the sleep deprivation is something I've had to deal with too until I drew a line in the sand.

My husband will stay up really late some nights, drinking, watching movies, pursuing some interest, whatever--probably watching porn--I don't care.

But when we were sleeping in the same bed, I couldn't get to sleep waiting for him. Finally I told him I was going to bed no later than 10:30 and he was welcome to join me. Otherwise, he could sleep in his studio.

There were times he'd come in and wake me up at 2:30, to "say goodnight" stinking of alcohol. I'd be furious at being awakened in the middle of the night, since we'd said goodnight hours ago and I couldn't get back to sleep. Or he'd take the opportunity to wake me up and start an argument.

I told him that behavior was unacceptable. Thankfully he's respected my boundary and now I no longer deal with sleep deprivation. Occasionally we sleep together, but I get a much better sleep without his snoring.

Sweetheart. I really don't know how to de-escalate this now, without giving in. Have you got any ideas.

This is new territory for me.

1. I could just say "I fundamentally disagree with the concept that the bed and bedroom is your space and not mine, however I'm willing to sleep in the lounge pending a meeting with the MC, where this thing can be discussed. 

2. I just hold tight and see what happens. 

3. Middle ground option.  We take it in turns. Last night was her in the lounge. Tonight it can be me, and we switch until we can see our MC and agree a more permanent arrangement.

I think nr 3 is a meet-me-half-way option,  which I'm partial to. Any other ideas?

My opinion is that its actually about intimacy.  Her absolute fear of it, and my need for it.

Children. They actually didn't know about it. It was not a conflictual thing like it was in the past. There were no slamming of doors and screaming. It was just quiet abuse :-).

I took them out and spent some quality time with them.

I really don't know how to shield them from this. If i leave they get BPD witch, queen. If I stay they at least get some stability.

It's hard.

OK, I tried the compromise #3. She went off and i had to leave the dysregulation.

Stuck again. Back in hold out mode.  I'll give her a good 45 minutes to cool off and try again.

Option 4 Tell her it is a marital bed where only love and kindness is welcome and if she can't abide by that or doesn't feel that way you encourage her to go take a time out in her own bed somewhere else in the house. Perhaps a space could be set up somewhere else for that purpose. I once told my ex fiancé that he was welcome to join my birthday party if he could find his happy face and be pleasant. He stormed out to his car, cried his eyes out, wiped his tears and came back and had a good time. Just saying that you are allowed to have needs and have a safe peaceful place to sleep.

Thanks Hope2727.  

I think that just about says it, the way I see it! That is what I want. A safe, peaceful marital bed, where love and kindness is welcome.  The disorder is not.

 

|iiii  

Moselle,

Dude!  High 5!  Low 5... .and all the rest.  This is an area where I agree with you... .and tend to disagree with what seems to be the "majority position" on BPD family.  Most say... .get up... leave... .go sleep peacefully somewhere else. 

I've got issues with sleep... .I need a routine... .use a cpap... .have braces on wrists... .it's a bit of a drama getting me in the bed and asleep.  So... .for me... going somewhere else... is really hard.  So... I have stuck with it for years... .that I sleep in that bed... .period.

Now... .I don't "fight" in the middle of the night.   I've covered my ears with my hands and waited for things to blow over.  But... .I don't give in... .I also don't try to "force" her to leave.

I like your style... .and I like the message.  If you have an issue... .don't expect my behavior to fix it for you. 

My recommendation... .don't give in... .no quarter. 

She will test this line in the sand... .it will get worse... .and if you give in  or cut a deal it will get exponentially worse (so... .don't do that)

Why not "cut a deal"?  How do most "deals" go with pwBPD?

More later

 

Safety issues:

OK... .realize here that this is going to be seen as "conflict" by her.

So... be ready.

When you sleep... where is your phone?  

For a while I used an app that would record to the sd card.  If there were "issues" during the night... .I would save the recording.  If there were no issues.  I would delete in the morning.  

Rarely did I ever reveal these recordings... .but I do believe her knowledge that I have her screaming bloody insults at me in the middle of the night... .and me not fighting back... .helped me with this boundary... and get us to the point we are now.

Now... .90 some percent of my nights  (high 90s) are great.  I get good productive sleep on regular basis.

Plus... .if she starts fighting you in middle of night... .an objective recording will be needed for police... if it goes there.

I have one incident from years ago where I was woken up by my wife screaming at me that I hated her... .I may or may not have made some sort of contact with her when I lurched out of bed... .

Her claims and my claims of that evening are quite different... .I would really have liked to listen to what actually happened.

Boy... I would really like to have objective evidence of what happened that evening.

 

Last thought... .

The message you are giving her... .you may not want to be too explicit here... .is this.

This is the loving marriage bed.  I will be here... .I will be loving and healthy... .you are welcome here if you behave the same way.  If you want to behave otherwise... .go somewhere else...

substitute marriage... .for marriage bed... .and I think you have a similar message about your marriage.

I so love this. I wish I could tattoo the concept on my heart.

|iiii THIS is a fantastic place to take a stand. I encourage it, just as much as formflier does.

There is only one problem with it. You CANNOT have a marital bed with love and kindness only in it if she chooses to put anger and violence into it.

The first night that moselle described was like that--he took a stand. He stayed in the bed. She wasn't cooperating. There was much that wasn't love and kindness that night. And moselle's sleep was disturbed several times that night.

Telling her that you insist on option 4 while she's picking a fight is not the same as getting option 4.

Be honest with yourself about what stand you are really taking--moselle's stand that night was about not getting kicked out of your own bed. It wasn't about keeping the marital bed safe from fighting and discord.

Yes indeed. It was not originally that way,  but it is now and I said as much. She called me a callous ass,  grabbed the duvet and all the pillows and walked out. No mess no fuss.  She even spoke to me afterwards.

I'm very tired. I'm lucky if I got 2 hrs of sleep last night

Hi Moselle I'm in the minority here as I don't uphold the view about the marital bed in this instance. I agree with the sentiments expressed by others, but as with all things  it is something that can be worked towards.

What's important is what it represents to her, it's not about the fight, it's about something else. I don't know what that is.

My reason for suggesting a somewhat counter intuitive approach is that your wife has been extremely brittle for a while now and she has been easily triggered, emotionally it sounds like she is all over the place at the moment. So I wonder if for now her need to control and take ownership of your marital bed is something you can allow her whilst also finding a way to validate her need for space when she does this. I think your suggestion of then working on this issue and how it makes you feel and how you want things to be in the safety of MC is a really good idea. 

Very good analysis GK. 

Hmmm... .

I think Moselle is giving an underlying message... .or goal... .of keeping a marriage bed "calm".

Maybe in the future... .if there are contentious discussions to be had... .or even serious ones... .both go to another room.

I've seen advice such as that in various r/s books.

Such as... .no tv, distractions etc etc  in the bedroom... .it is for sleep and... .you know... ."relations... "   

Group challenge:  I think we all get the basic message that I had here.  I also realize that I presented this message in a way that we "nons" understand... .but I think if we said this to a pwBPD traits... .I think it "would be on!"... .trigger time.

So... .here is the challenge... .put on your validation hats... .communication strategy hats... .and let's find a way Moselle can say this... .effectively

Please go to bed early tonight... .and keep track of this... .

Also... .you are taking a stand in one place... .

Please find several other places to up the validation... .up the help.  Be nice to her... bring her a glass of icewater... .

Don't bring up the bedroom again... .unless she brings it up.  Maybe another way of saying don't rub her nose in it.

Not saying you will... .but with 2 hrs sleep... .I worry about keeping you focused.

I cant see you are in a good posistion here you cant force intamacy on someone with BPD an your boudaries where yoe end up sleeping with no pillows or blankets seems difficult I think you are playing by her rules here i would seriously consider writing some rules of your own and defending them

My experience of deals or agreements is that they go out the window with the first dysregulation.  "I never agreed that" is one of her usual responses to that.

Or she says "Things have changed. That was before you did xyz, that deal is no longer valid"

I'm realising mutual agreements don't really work with disordered people.  As soon as they have a mood swing the deal is off. I guess they can justify that internally through blame.

Two things. First, I *hope* FF was joking about 'deals' I remember how badly most of his went! I think you are on the right track with them.

Second, I want to go back to the original point you made, moselle, and really congratulate you on the important part:

You were strong enough to stand up and face her. You stood your ground. You proved that you DO have the strength to do this, to succeed in the face of provocation!  |iiii  

And THAT will serve you incredibly. Remember you have it!

There is a lot of discussion about where to put that energy, and how to do it best. You've got time to figure that out, and you will get better as you work on it.

Remember... .you DO have the strength you need for this!

Agree with kitty here agreements dont work with BPD it always seems to come down to a line in the sand an then you better not back down

I agree with this. Hold your ground and don't cave in - ever. Decide what you want and just do it. If we wait to be seen, appreciated, ask for permission, or do a deal, it just won't happen. Unfortunately there are some things which need a level of co-operation eg Intmacy. I've written that off for now. My battle now is for respect and autonomy.


Thanks GK. It is indeed a good reminder. I have just started a new job which is also challenging. W is testing me. She's also playing for attention which I'm spending at my job. I sensed this and it's actually one of the reasons I took a stand here. My message is "Settle down, stop misbehaving, relax. I have the situation under contol" I had to postpone the MC meeting on Tuesday because I'm travelling for work. She is now saying that I must cancel my trip so we can attend MC. My answer... .you guessed it - "no"


Thanks for your support in this thread. I slept like a baby! :-) I'm validating her too.  She's ignoring it. But I'm doing it, and I'm enjoying doing it. It's good practicing unconditional love. Nothing in return? Do it anyway.  And I'M having lots of fun with D5 and D10. D14 is unfortunately copying W in her behaviour - hermit, witch. I'm validating her too.

 

Too bad about the MC... .is there anyway around it... .or to delay it... .or to move MC up to Monday? 

If money is issue... .and the job is important... .then I think you have priorities straight... but... .hoping you can find a way to do both.

Street angel, Home Devil. We are currently at a social event with friends and W is treating me perfectly well. She's got the Street Angel persona on. Getting me drinks, sharing social banter, organising my food.

It's a difficult contrast to manage.  It feels like life is back to its best. We'll see what happens at bedtime LOL

That's the sad thing about BPD,  the good is great. The bad is devastating.

First thing that sprang to mind:

There was a little girl

BY HENRY WADSWORTH LONGFELLOW

There was a little girl,

            Who had a little curl,

Right in the middle of her forehead.

            When she was good,

            She was very good indeed,

But when she was bad she was horrid.

 |iiii Good work, moselle!

I hope you got another good night's rest.

Validation is a fantastic tool, but do remember that the good that comes of it won't show up if you don't have two more basic things under control first:

1. Boundary enforcement to protect yourself. Two that seem timely... .

-- Don't stand there and "take" verbal, emotional (or physical!) abuse. (Including constant blaming or circular arguments.

-- Your career and job is yours. Don't allow her demands, boundary busting, or needy behavior to interfere with your job or your work hours.

If you let this go, you will feel too hurt, beaten down, or resentful to be in the right mindset for validation, and cannot do it well.

2. Don't invalidate. Don't JADE.

This is because if you give your wife 99.8% validation + 0.2% invalidation in a conversation, the whole thing is tainted; the benefit of validation won't show up.

Plus... .it is easier. To stop invalidating all you need to do is clamp your mouth firmly shut and keep your eyes from rolling! Digging for empathy and understanding from somebody who tries to attack and hurt you is a challenge!

Sounds like Mr Wadsworth Longfellow (b1807, d1882) had a little girl who was Borderline in his life. I wonder what used to be done in the 1800's with illnesses like BPD.  Just ignored and covered up, or lobotomy?  :)


Very wise advice. Thanks. 

She's gone into victim mode. She isn't even attempting to sleep in the the bed any more. She's playing the "poor me" card. Suits me fine. I feel very safe in my big old bed.

How do I avoid making his the one up one down game?

- validate

- don't invalidate

- wait for her. When she's ready she will come back.

Take her nice glass of ice water... .invite her up for a backrub... .

Or you can have bottle of lotion. 

If she comes up... .great... .

If not... .her choice... .you offered a healthy... enjoyable thing... .she made a choice to do something else.


Thing is to ask her... and then not "pester" her... .

IMO

Victim mode and "poor me" is her way of playing that game. If you react, you are playing the game with her.

If you chase after her and try to comfort her, and she rejects you... .that is playing the game.

FF's suggestions are sound... .*IF* you are feeling genuinely like reaching out and offering these things. (OK, a glass of ice water is setting the bar low enough that you probably feel good about that!)

If you just feel like enjoying your own company, in another part of the house... .or going out for whatever you want to do... .or visiting a friend... .whatever, go do it.

Spend some time doing what you want to do.

A hershey's kiss could have a bit of smart a$$ to it... ... ..so I stick with ice water... .pretty non specific... .but a gesture.

Really... .the point is not so much to make a gesture... but to "stick you toe in the water"... .and see if anything has changed... .

If she perks up at a small gesture... maybe you can validate and keep some momentum going... .

Even a snarl or and odd response is a chance to be genuine... .and ask what emotions she is feeling (a touch different than ... .how are you) 

Moselle... .solid work!    I like your style!   *)

It was my experience when we were still together that my ex would perk up when I went off and did my own thing and appeared to be having fun without him. Even if that was sleeping. I simply refuse to be begging someone to be happy. Now it should be said that he left me so I may not be the greatest source of advice. However it did seem to work while he was still here.

the only hope i see of you breaking this impass in the short term is the irreverence technique a very difficult manouver It basically involves completely suprising your partner ( presumably arouind bedtime with something ) completely unexpected and taking the moment she is in a suprised state ( an hence open to suggestion as she is temporarily removed from the closed mindset ) to make a reasonable an sensible representation good luck the example m linehan gives of this runs along the lines of a therapist patient interface i.e.

patient I have decided i am going to kill myself

therapist

i thought we decided you were going to stay in therapy

 p.s. this can easily backfire so think carefully about how an if you do it 

Thanks folks.

SlyQQ I'm going to try that. I'm away on business for two days so it'll have to wait until I get back

We're into the silent treatment again.  OK - that's my cue to start looking after myself.

Interesting timing. Perhaps your leaving on business triggered her fear of abandonment... .and she had to leave you first to protect herself? ('leave' meaning ST)

I think that was why I wondered whether a counter intuitive response to the 'get out of my bed' might be a consideration. Given that your wife knew you were going away and had a new job, she was most likely feeling anxious and out of control and a bit scared re abandonment etc.

The ST fits with a continuation of withdrawal and a need to control her environment because she is scared that you are going away.

Maybe next time you are due to spend time away you will be able to preempt this type of behaviour and get loads of validating loveliness in first to allay her fears. Maybe. :)

I moved into my own bedroom.  Complete with a bed and bedding to my liking.  I think at first she felt I would move back to the same bedroom.  But after having peace and sanctuary at the end of each day, and getting so much better sleep, I decided I like it just fine this way.  After a couple years she hinted that she wanted me to move back, but I passed on it citing that I sleep so much better separately.  Felt strange at first.  And I have to explain to the kids that we have separate bedrooms.  But no real biggie (to me).

Having said that there is no reason you cant hold your ground on your own bed. 

I'd encourage you to keep your spot in the bed if that's where you want to sleep.  Maybe the ideal scenario is that you sleep in your bed and she finds someplace else to sleep alone, like a couch or spare bed.

Taking a step back, it's somewhat of a strange cultural norm that couples are expected to sleep in the same bed every night, especially in the developed world.  To me, the Ward and June Cleaver arrangement (two separate beds in the same room) might make more sense for getting better quality sleep, or even more ideally, for each person to have a separate bedroom where they can control noise, light level, and temperature.

I love cuddling up to her. And she loves it too. The BPD - not so much.

That's the sad thing. We've had so many years of closeness. Was it all a dream? A figment of what i thought was going on and she secretly hated it? It feels that way now. Its been so long since there was peace.  It's easy to take this as the new 'normal'.

I love having separate bedrooms for a variety of reasons: his snoring due to substance abuse, his preference for staying up really late, his squirming around in bed, his desire to read for an hour or more with the light on in order to fall asleep.

I tell him I'm going to bed at 10:30 and he's welcome to join me if he's ready to sleep. It almost never happens. We have a few different places to sleep with different ambience. I sleep around (no not that way), just to enjoy waking up in different environments. He almost always sleeps in his king size bed in his studio. I used to like sleeping there, until he quit cleaning and the dust bunnies grew big as hamsters and it triggered my allergies. I think he purposefully doesn't clean, just so I won't join him there. (It's the one spot in the whole house I don't clean--he needs to be responsible for his own space.)

It's up to you to figure out the new normal.  My gut says... .as long as you are pushing for healthier... .more emotionally stable... .you have a good shot at getting back to the "good 'ol days"

Keep working it... .good luck on your business trip

Thanks form flier. I'm not sure that is possible in a  sustainable way, buy I'M dead keen to try. Nothing would make me happier than  a kind and loving woman.

And in the short run... .you may have a frustrated and ineffective pwBPD traits... trying to get you to "bite" and start a fight.

Over time... .she may tire of this... .and try a new tactic... .or she may genuinely go back to more of her "old self"

Fingers crossed.

Are you off on your trip?  When is MC resched for?

OK. I'm almost there. Tomorrow 9 am for MC.

She only said "I want you dead" once this week.  lol

It's contempt, silent treatment, and hatred all mixed into one otherwise though.

I'm going to use the bed as an indirect message on the marriage as you mentioned earlier formflier.

"You're welcome to come back into the bed, if you are kind and loving. If you're hating or angry, you need to sleep somewhere else."

I think we both recognise that it cannot continue like this. The stress on the children is massive, not to mention what we're under.

I went separately to the MC appointment to find that W had cancelled it. But then the counsellor was available so she saw us anyway.  

She said she was divorcing me and that she was only there to get the mediator to get her bed back and get me to pay for her full time maid.  

And W said that she's divorcing me on Monday. She has told the children the same thing.

The counsellor also said she should take her space. W said she was leaving the house, taking the children and staying with someone else.

BPD - the drama!

I'm really tired of this and I've given up at this point. I can't take this stress any more. So Monday looks like D-day.  Perhaps she's waiting for me to beg her to stay. Perhaps she 's serious.  It's hard to tell.

Is there any advice out there? I'm just holding on. Not caving.

I'm so sorry to hear that Moselle.   You've really been through the wringer. It sounds like you've come to some level of acceptance of an intolerable situation and that you're just waiting for her next move.

It's hard when you see how damaging her behavior is, not only to you, but also to your children. The nastiness and unkindness is so hurtful to everyone.

I know this is the staying board, but have you considered that your life and your children's lives might be improved by some distance from her? I'm really sorry, but it seems you've had the patience of a saint.   

 

Moselle,

Read my other posts... .my last day has been drama... so... .take my advice in that context.

My advice... .make sure you are home on Monday... .call a lawyer first thing.  You need to know what do to if she tries to take a child from the house... that doesn't want to go.

If a child says they want to go... .I don't know what you can do.


Between now and then... validate and do your best.  Don't invalidate... .don't draw lines... .unless you see something dangerous (again... read my posts to see why that is on my mind)

Take her glasses of water... .and do other things to put your toe in the water... .and take an opportunity to validate.

DO NOT "dare" her... .don't beg her not to file... .

If she files... .take no prisoners... .shine the light on her behavior... .be ready for her claims... .spend a lot of time on the divorce board.

Either way... .you know you have to win this one.  Walking away is not an option... .

If I am mistaken about walking away... .please advise.

What does this mean?  I don't understand counselors advice?  What is counselors advice to you?

Did you and your wife come to any agreements in MC?

 Cat. Thanks for your note. Unfortunately I think I have the codependence of a peasant rather than the patience of a saint. That's my attempt at humour.  It seems she is desperate to self destruct. It's so frustrating. She has now reverted to the nonchalant "so I'm divorcing you attitude". She even said to me, that I have no idea how.much influenice she has over the children. She's cruel she's mean and she is going to continue to batter their poor self esteems further.  My heart is breaking for them. They have no idea.

Waiting for her move? Yes I'm waiting for her move. What else can I do?

So sorry to hear about your predicament! I hope your boy recovers from the bite and you and your wife recover from the traumatic experience.

Advice was "I'm so sorry about the divorce, call if you need support" formflier, this is the second MC to say the same thing.  First one was when we separated a year ago. The possibility that I'm flogging  a dead horse here seems a likely one at this stage...

She appears more hesitant now.  And her voice wavered earlier when talking about the divorce. There have been so many threats over the last year,  it's impossible to tell if she's serious or not.

She's behaving like the queen - asking me to do favours, or errands. She keeps asking me for money too. I say "no" to most of it, or just ignore it. I was leaving to go to the shop today and she ran out pulled the car door open. I just continued used to drive away. She's so focussed on controlling me it's unbelievable.

 

I think boy will be fine.  I will lay eyes on him again in few hours. 

What else can you do... .not much.  Validate when you can. 

I've seen guys try to preempt... .went badly... .except in the state of TN... where the person files... somehow... .controls the court.

A guy I knew used that knowledge... .to pick a more "dad friendly" judge.

Still ... .he made that move out of fear... .and while he got 50/50 parenting... .early... .that sealed the divorce.  She continues to blame him... .it was 10 years ago.

Basically... .she tries to say that because he filed... .it is his fault. 

My tactic... .if it ever comes to this... .is that my wife has to "own" the divorce... .if she wants one. 

Last threat for my was over Christmas... .luckily... .with tools... .divorces threats are almost out of my r/s.

Still... you need to talk to lawyer and understand if there is a big advantage to the person that files.

In my state... there is not... .if she takes kids and runs... .I can have the back in about 10 days... .and have lawyer ready for this if needed.

She has threatened to take kids and run before.  I don't respond to those threats... .but I am ready for them.

Are you ready?

Can you remind us quickly how the separation went... .?  You left... correct? 

I actually don't think she is serious... .I think she is goading you... .IMO... for what it's worth. 

It was a mutual agreement to separate.  Initially I was going to prepare the way for her and the kids to follow. Then I think the abandonment fear kicked in and she went bezerk with me travelling back 1500 km each weekend.

At that stage I was just as volatile as her and had no idea about BPD.  I separated. And came back as.often as possible for the children. My bpdfamily journey of discovery began.

I put in boundaries and she raged for 6 months against them.

I had a radical acceptance moment and I accepted her illness as just that.

That prompted an honest moment from her where she admitted to having Borderline and Narcissistic traits. This is in addition to the eating, impulse control, obsessive and General Anxiety disorders which her psychiatrist has told me about. The fist two I have in a written diagnosis. Obsessive and GAD she told me about over the phone.  And W told me about BP and NP.  

We had 3 months of solid improvement. And I moved home without a job without anything. Then she went on a silent treat mentioned bender for a month. I have just started a new job and really need to focus on that.

I think she's serious this time ff.  She has the services ( sponsored by her mother I think) of a very high end celebrity lawyer. She has stolen my personal laptop. ( I think to look for evidence of money?, other women, I don't know what) She has figured out what earn I my new job. (I didn't tell her for obvious reasons)

I am not prepared.  I was last year and even had lawyers speaking to eachother at one stage. She fired that lawyer ( who was reasonable and had the children's interest at heart). She has a new one specialising in matriarchal rights in a divorce.

My W is very very high functioning. And she is very very convincing.  I thought this MC was fair. Yesterday W turned on the onslaught tears, wailing, rage, and the MC turned. I guess we all want to believe the crying, self proclaimed, victim. And if someone cries like that, someone must be responsible right? - only one person to blame - Moselle.

I have faith that good will overcome.  

I'll phone my lawyer today and figure out what to do on monday. I'm tired ff. I've said to her if she's not with me she needs to go. I guess we'll find out her choice on monday , and I'll deal with the fallout.  If she goes for a fight I will give her the fight of my life - for my children.  She's managed to isolate me over the years, but she has not bargained on a Moselle with his back against the wall. I have no wa but forward,  and if she refuses to respect my boundaries, perhaps it's better that she does go.  

A neutral sunday. I'm not sure what she's going to do tomorrow. She's calmed right down, but still being a control freak.  I think divorce is too much trouble for her. And it doesn't suit her image.  I may be mistaken but I think she's backed off.  I'll be arriving home at school home time  though,  just in case she plans packing them all away tomorrow.

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