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We had a bit of limited contact about taxes recently.   He asked me if I would come and talk to him and I decided I needed to do that. My plan was to ask him if he felt counseling would be worth it. He started off blaming me for a bunch of stuff. I took responsibility for what I thought was mine to take responsibility for. I called him out on his rewriting of history, though. The more he tried to gaslight me, the more insistent I was about what had really happened. We talked for hours. I laid in his arms in his bed. He finally agreed to counseling and I thought we were making progress.  He tried to make some moves on me, but I told him can't be intimate with him because I don't want to be hurt. I appreciated him agreeing to counseling,  but I just can't open myself up to him like that again right now before actually seeing any changes.   He made some comment about well, if a man's wife won't be intimate with him then he has to find someone who will. Up until that point, he had been acting like he was going to commit to our marriage and seeking Counseling.  As soon as he did not get what he wanted,  he rescinded about counseling.  I guess that is my closure. He couldn't even keep his act up for an afternoon.  I am glad I went and was able to keep my wits about me enough not to open myself up completely.  Oy vey! Working on the divorce papers again.

Hi Seriously?,

I think you did good!

I think a r/s is based on trust. Nothing changes without change. Saying one thing ( therapy ) and he's doing another? If he's serious he'd start with therapy and do the hard work. There's more to a r/s than physical intimacy.

Good for you Seriously!  That can be considered progress, and make sure you take time to celebrate it.

Thanks Mutt and Heal, I am a bit disappointed but not really surprised at the outcome.  I kept trying to assess him throughout the time I was with him. I realized by his tactics what a pushover I must have been when I was enmeshed.  All afternoon he was being what I would call "nice" but completely caught up in his needs with no thought about mine at all. He was angry with me because he felt since he agreed to counseling,  I should agree to sleep with him.

Yes!  That's what detachment feels like.  It's sad too since we have to accept the reality, and can be shocking that we lost touch with it, but in the end it feels good to be back with our feet on the ground, yes?

I understand how being out of it and looking back in the rearview mirror and seeing the dysfunction of it all. I think it's important that we don't be hard on ourselves.

I think it shows your H's emotional immaturity and self-centeredness / ego centricity with wanting to fulfill his emotional and physical needs. I would like to add objectification.

I don't think there's a right or wrong and it may more important to identify with why? You have hope perhaps at re-conciliation and he's going to change? Do you miss the partnership and feel lonely?

 I am glad it happened how it did today. I was honest about my feelings,  but did not allow him to exploit them. It really cemented for me what I wrote in another post: how he acts and what he says doesn't say anything about me. I was firm in my boundaries and he acted like a child. It probably sent the wrong message to lay down with him at all, but that was a minor error.  He showed me how little respect he has for me. I poured out my heart, but that meant zilch if he didn't get his way.

Mutt, I was missing our partnership and I was hoping for a change. Today's interactions made me really see that he is who he is. He is not looking to change.  He said he would go to counseling, etc. to manipulate me into thinking things would be good again. I don't believe it was just about an afternoon's fun. I think he knows me well enough that he knows I would not let go easily after being with him like that. He would probably never have gone to counseling, but I would have been all wrapped up In him again.

Does he have the ability to connect with how you feel and was ignoring it, in a narcissistic way, or does he lack the ability entirely?

So you both laid your cards down  - transparency.

Seriously? Is it playing with fire a little? You risk the chance of falling back into the rabbit hole. It's OK, you did good, it may be something to be mindful of moving forward. Only he can decide to put an honest effort into counselling? He has to want it.

One way of looking at this is that it sounds like he has no qualms reconciling under his conditions? You need to meet my emotional needs, forgo your own and I'm not going into T?

Heal, I think he lacks the ability.  I tried to explain how I felt it would affect me to be intimate at this early stage, and his response was, "This will make everything right between us." I think he believes that. I think he thought we could jump right back in after 7 months of separation and very limited contact. I don't believe he was planning to hurt me, but it was an attempt on his part.to circumvent any hard work, but connect in the way he knows works.

Mutt, yes, I was playing with fire a bit. I felt like I had to talk to him to see for sure. I have no plans on meeting with him again. Yes, counseling is his choice.  He said he would go at first, but changed his mind.  I can accept his decision.

Yeah, my ex too.  It's common around here to assign malicious intent to our exes, and when we're in pain that's natural, but really my ex just didn't have a clue, which is also why she turned to her 17 year old daughter for advice and counsel, since she is literally more mature.  The fault is really my own, assigning the traits of a 45 year old adult to a 45 year old, projecting on her what I wanted to see, denying the fact she just wasn't who I wanted, needed or expected her to be.  Granted I got blindsided, never been that close to mental illness before, but how long did I stay after it was obvious?  Too long.

Heal, in many ways pwBPD appear more in touch with their feelings and I think it comes across as being more developed,  rather than less. Until you're talking about the other person's feelings for hours and they are absolutely unable to resolve or put a conflict to bed without the other person assuring them they are completely right,  all the time, twenty-four seven. I say he was manipulating me because he was, but just to get what he wants. He lacks future thinking and is impulsive. I think I was looking for him to recognize we've gotten back together in this way before, and we need to figure this out now. I believe he cannot see another way even though his way is a quick new start with nothing actually worked out and never sustainable. I really wanted him to say something or do something to prove he does not have the disorder. He is not diagnosed,  so there was 5 percent of me uncertain if he has BPD. After today, I am at 100 percent. I am married to him. I was very serious about my vows. I had to come to a very firm decision here and see it for myself. I am very disappointed,  but I am also more comfort going through with the divorce.

Yes, it is very disappointing, but good for you for getting to 100%, that's progress, as sad as it is.