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Just had a call from her in floods of tears, partly to do with the TV again and other things. She hates her life right now and just wants to climb into bed and forget the world exists.

Her d18 inherited a lot of money a couple of weeks ago after she turned 18. I never asked about this but something must have happened previously because this was money that her grandmother left. It was split between BPDgf's children when they turned 18 and also BPDgf's sister but she was cut out completely despite telling me how close she was to her grandmother.

Today she asked d18, to lend her some money to get a new TV and d18 refused. I do understand BPDgf's frustration at this because she has always given to d18 when d18 wanted money for alcohol, food, going out on trips with friends. She still lives at home and has contributed nothing towards bills etc... On the other hand, it's d18's decision on what she does with her money and given how BPDgf spends money, I could understand why d18 would say no to her. It would only take that 1 time and then it would be constant requests. So yes, I see both sides of the argument. Still, I validated BPDgf's feelings on the phone and allowed her to vent her frustrations.

She looked at getting a payday loan the other day and rang me to tell me about it because she knew I would disapprove given that's where she has run herself into debt anyway. Again, I validated her reasoning behind wanting to look at doing this as well as exploring alternative solutions. She cancelled the online applications and decided not to go ahead with that. However, today she has been inundated with emails, texts and phonecalls all from loan sharks trying to offer her the money to the point it is now overwhelming her and another great cause of upset for her.

The one thing I have not done in all of this is offer her the money myself. I've done that with everything else previously even going as far as buying her a car. It is so difficult right now because as I said on a previous post, I could sort this problem out for her in less than 5 minutes but I'm sticking to my guns on this one and not stepping in to save the day.

One of the biggest problems she has right now is that she isn't looking forward to her birthday next week. She turns 45 and is fearing getting old. Again, I validated her feelings around this but also made the statement that she will only be a week older than she is now.

The final thing she was upset about was that we had planned a date last night but she postponed due to work issues and we re-arranged for tonight. She was a little concerned last night after fearing I would be upset at postponing or that I would walk away from her. I gave her reassurances that sometimes plans have to change and that it's perfectly ok to do that. I also thanked her for letting me know and that tonight would be equally as good.

We have just been hit with a pretty bad snow storm today so she was upset because it meant that tonight might not go according to plan either and again, she is terrified that I'm going to lose patience and walk away from her. Again, given her reassurances that things are ok and that the weather cannot be helped but that if she still wanted to do something tonight, I could see if I can get down to hers and we just do something local.

Where I get a little frustrated and need to take a deep breath is what happened at the end of our conversation. She seemed much better and much happier because we talked through her fears and concerns, recognised them and dealt with them. So in true BPDgf fashion, the moment she felt better about everything it was just a sudden and abrupt ending to the conversation. No goodbyes or thank you's but I've come to not expect those anymore. What she will usually do is save them up and maybe once a week or once a fortnight will send me a message or email to thank me for being there for her or for helping her through difficult moments.

I guess this is something I have to work on accepting because I've never been one who likes to be thanked for anything, it makes me feel uncomfortable. But working through things with T, I'm gradually finding acceptance and understanding that it can be rewarding and now that I'm understanding that, I'm starting to have a hard time of things when BPDgf doesn't say thank you.

Has anyone else dealt with this before and if so, what do you do to get through those moments?

Hmmm... .not sure I have answers for your questions, but I've got a question about your answers  lol

You describe BPDgf (ex?BPDgf) being on the edge of dysregulation talking to you.

You describe her postponing a date with you (for good sounding reasons).

Do you think this mood (in tears, almost dysregulated) on the phone will show up when you see her face to face for the date?

And do you WANT to have a date like that with her?

RH, I think you can assume that a dysfunctional person is likely to have plenty of crisis. This is because dysfunctional people are reactors, rather than actors. They don't plan things out well, and so jump from one immediate crisis to another. It is normal for people to have unexpected events in their lives, but not all of them are crises.

Our TV broke a while back. It wasn't a crisis. I didn't have to call someone up about it. It wasn't a crisis because, a TV is not essential for survival. We could take our time to save some money, and also shop around for one that we liked and could buy.

One of my kids earned some money in a summer job. It wasn't a crisis. It was his money. Now, we had some expectations about him saving for some college expenses, but the rest was his money, not a crisis.

Not being able to make a date because of bad weather isn't a crisis. It is the way it is, and the date can be rescheduled.

Running out of money to survive would be a crisis and one I hope nobody faces, however, if that happens, people can turn to soup kitchens, public assistance, relatives, and other avenues in place to assist with such things.

However, it is your GF who is deciding what is a crisis. You also have the choice to decide what is a crisis and how much you wish to be involved in this. At the moment, you don't need a TV, your child isn't getting money that you wish they would give to you, and you are able to survive. Your GF is making all of these a crisis, however, only one of them really is, and then the question is, what do you want to do about it?

You know, this reminds me of how my parents talked about things. Everything that didn't go their way was a "disaster". Once there was a disaster, there was no solution for the situation.

I think this is part of black and white thinking. If one thing isn't right, then the whole thing is wrong. If my H and I had a nice day, and then a disagreement, then I was blamed for "ruining the entire weekend" or evening, or whatever.

If we kids did anything wrong, that was a disaster.

Grey Kitty, didn't end up going on the date tonight partly because of the messing around earlier and what followed. In the end I made other plans. She finally made up her mind when she found out there were other plans but by that time I committed to my friend so wasn't going to change again.

Her reasoning was that she has had 2 days of crisis on her days off so her head was all over the place. Told her that I understood as I have been there with her and know how stressful it has been for her. But given she couldn't let me know what was happening tonight and that she said earlier she was too upset to do anything, I went with alternative arrangements.

I did eventually get my thank you. She said thankyou for being so patient and understanding and being there to support me through these difficult days. I'm back at work tomorrow and I'm exhausted already x

Which then takes me to NotWendy, its tough because to her it is a crisis, to me its an inconvenience or a small bump in the road. My TV blew up last year and was only 5 months old at the time. Called a repair guy, he had to order parts and it took a week for them to arrive. I just found something else to do but its not like I watch much TV anyway.

Her daughter ended up caving tonight so they went out and bought a TV. I then got calls on how to set it up and then it was still in demo mode so icons keep appearing. I chose to help her out that way, was still helping without the financial support.

During a conversation today, she actually recalled that no matter what chaos was happening in her life, I'm always Mr reliable and always has been. I'm glad she recalled that because one time I didn't answer the phone quick enough and got painted black, that I never did anything for her, that she couldn't count on me for anything etc... .

Your nice day rings true too. Took her to a theme park last year. She made lunches for us and went to put bag in a locker. Machine took my money and locker was out of order so had to go to customer service. Yes, it was a small annoyance that it took the money and that there was a small queue at the customer service desk but the whole incident from start to finish was less than 30 mins.

Sadly, it ruined her entire day and as we started to walk around, she decided her day was so ruined that she wanted to go home. We sat and talked it through and in the end it turned out to be a good day but those black and white moments can be tough to deal with. It takes a lot of energy to turn it around once the black hits.

RH- yes, for her, everything is a crisis.

The question for you is- do you want to be dragged in to every one of her crisis? There are two realities here- hers and yours. One is more dramatic than the other.

Yes, you can have compassion for her, but do you want to deal with every crisis?

For instance, yes, I would want to know if my mother was in a situation that was potentially harmful. I would want to know if she were sick, or needed something to survive. I do not want to be called about every emotional upset she may have in the day.

Mom called because she needed some repair work on the house. That may be a crisis to her, but I don't feel responsible for that. I can be empathetic without being drawn into the situation. I also don't have to call her back right away, I can wait to do that because it isn't urgent.

Ditto for friends and other relatives. I would want to help my friend in the event that she needed something. She might even just want to vent if her TV broke, but that can wait, it is not a crisis, and I don't feel responsible for her broken TV, I am not dragged into it.

Your GF seems to be drawing you in emotionally with her personal issues, but it's not your TV, not your daughter and yet, it appears you are involved in all that information. Do you want to be? The issue is boundaries, what's hers is hers and what's yours is yours, and what of hers do you choose to make yours too?

So true Notwendy, I do have boundary issues and I'm getting better at them slowly but there are still some parts I fail to recognise. Possibly because of my rescuer tendencies, I've always been brought into peoples drama, whether it's my own family, in a relationship and some of my friends and even at work. The last one, I've even been called when on annual leave to step in and resolve a work crisis and I do every time. Because I don't have a firm boundary in place, I do the work and solve the crisis. Not for the recognition, because once done I blend into the background and let others take the credit, for me I see the financial gain. So my question there is why is that different to the others? I know why I solve a crisis at work, as for the others it's more to do with acceptance.

It can get overwhelming at times because I'm the go to guy for everything and I do recognise that I'm the one who puts myself in that position. So thank you for adding perspective because what you said makes a lot of sense.

I guess with BPDgf, that is partly because I'm afraid that if I'm not there to solve all of her problems, she will find someone else to do that for her. The other part is I feel I have to prove to her that I am reliable and dependable given some of the comments she has made in the past. And there is also the part of rescuing is an automatic response for me at the moment but that's what I'm working through with T. It's been quite difficult to distinguish between what's hers because I do feel tied to some of it and have feelings of guilt if I don't help her. That's the part I need to work on.

You are homing in on good stuff. I've got a couple questions about it:

1. You say you are afraid if you don't solve all her problems she will find somebody else.

Is that really so scary? She got D18 to solve the TV problem.

Or are you saying you are afraid she will find some other guy to solve her problems and cheat with him?


2. You say you need to prove to her that you are reliable and dependable.

Haven't you already gone above and beyond and done that?


3. What about you? Are you not worth her love, respect, and devotion?

I think you sound like a pretty fantastic guy.

One of the main things I've identified with my T is that I have a fear of letting go of hope. Not just in relationships but work and life in general. I tend to push my boundaries far beyond their limits and whilst it can be a good thing, I still hold on to hope far longer than most people would do even when it causes great pain and suffering to myself. I think that still comes in to play with your first question Grey Kitty. I fear that moment that I let go of something that it's a day or so too early.

For a long time I hid the fact I have Aspergers because I'm high functioning, I'm very self aware of my strengths and weaknesses. Mentioned on previous posts about how I would dumb down just to fit in but to meet me, you would never know. It's little quirks here and there that give it away. I've had a lifetime of people not being able to understand and the difficulties that poses so I do empathise with pwBPD in that sense of having something that others can't understand. Aspergers can be quite similar to BPD but where theirs is based around emotions, mine is based around logic.

I know what it's like to not have people believe in you. Primary School, my head told my parents I was idle and would never achieve anything in life. It wasn't that I was idle, it's just I found it overwhelming and some things didn't interest me at all.

I've served my country as a medic and in that job, it's difficult to give up too soon especially when it's a friend who has been shot or severely injured.

After I came out the army I wanted to work in IT. Careers advisor laughed and said the best I could ever hope for was working on the shop floor in a computer shop. Now, I write software, develop and build new systems for all the major car manufacturers globally and manage my own team of developers.

So yes, I know what it's like to be misunderstood and to push the boundaries of what others felt was impossible. So that plays into my r/s with BPDgf because she doesn't have the logical capacity to resolve a lot of her issues which is where she turns to me and needs me. In the same respect that I don't have the emotional capacity to understand and that's where I turn to her and need her in the same way. We basically fill the gap that each other is lacking. So I do have a fear of letting go and giving up on her and it is starting to take it's toll.

Also identified with T this week that when a r/s is ending, rather than walk away, I hand it to the other person to obliterate completely. I don't have an issue with being abandoned because it's something I've grown used to and would rather take on that pain than hurt someone else. That's what we start to work on next week  :)

As for proving myself, yes I have on many occasions but I also have the black and white thinking to contend with. All it takes is missing one occasion and suddenly everything else counts for nothing. The nasty comments that come are usually along the lines of that I do nothing or that I'm never helpful or that I leave her in the middle of a crisis so I obviously don't care enough about her. As much as I try not to take it personally, it's still difficult to hear.

As for what I'm worth. I've grown to serve others, whether that's been my own family, my country or my relationships. I'm starting to understand more but it's all still alien to me. I've not known anything different so it's extremely difficult to relate to love, respect and devotion in any other way. That's another thing being worked on with T, to find an instance where that has happened in my past so we can start to build around those feelings. Where I struggle is that I come at this from a logical perspective so have to dig deep to try and tie emotions to those situations. It's my own internal battle but it's also why I have a lot of empathy for pwBPD, especially BPDgf.

It was widely thought for a long time that people with AS lack empathy. It's part of the reason I couldn't accept it in the beginning because that didn't make sense. It's now been proved that isn't the case, we tend to internalise empathy to a far greater extent than a lot of people but have trouble externalising it.

A prime example. In Bosnia we has a soldier lose his left hand and spent 8 hours in surgery trying to reattach it without success. I was the one tasked with breaking the news to him when he came around (probably not the best idea) I really felt for him, the struggles he may face, what his emotional state was going to be and how tough it would be for him and his family as he was only young. I had no trouble breaking the news to him and he was devastated and upset. The biggest part of his upset was that when we got back from there he was supposed to be getting married and feared what his fiance would think now that he was incomplete. I understood all of that too and how he was feeling, his fears and his concerns. However, what came out of my mouth was "If anything, it's going to save you a fortune on a wedding ring and maybe put that money towards the honeymoon to cheer you both up"

I've got better at thinking and processing before I speak over the years. I don't have a problem on these boards either because I can read and process before I respond. Also, what I write is coming from my heart and not from my mouth. But I do sometimes fear saying the wrong thing. I've also read in a few journals that people with AS also tend to externalise their feelings towards someone, not by telling them but by doing for them. Kind of like a cat when it brings a mouse of a bird as a "gift". It's also something else I've worked on over the years and got much better at than I was when I was young.

So coupled with my rescuing tendencies and some of the quirks of AS, it's a tough hurdle to overcome  :)

So the final answer is yes, I am worth the love, devotion and respect I just don't fully know what that looks like only what I've perceived it to be through doing for others as a way of acceptance.

"RH, in response to your post, yes, I have cone above & beyond the call of duty for at the time my BPDgf/now my wife, she was in a very difficult position a few times w/money, & this is a very interesting story, ( I come to find out that my BPDgf had lent money to some guy she had worked with, now, mind you this goes back to Oct of 2013, so, we were about 1.5-2months of being in a relationship w/one another, I also came to find out that she had sex w/this guy, not sure when it was whether it was pre-us, or post-us, I wouldn't expect a truthful answer from her anyways, it seems to me that being truthful to her is not one of her finest qualities as a human), so, she called & said she was 2 months behind on her rent & she was going to get bounced out of her apt. if she didn't have the money in a 2 days, so, like a fool, I said no problem I will send it to you in overnight mail... .Upon receipt of the money not one time did I ever hear a "thank you" or any type of acknowledgement whatsoever ! Now, being a grown up I often thought that maybe I was wrong for expecting her to say thank you... .I mean I was always brought up to say thank you even in the most trivial of circumstances ! So, I just wrote the entire thing off & chalked it up to experience !

Then about a month or 2 later she got into some bad legal jams & I paid for her lawyers & her bond to get outta jail in another state... .once again, I lost a great deal of money doing that... .& not 1 time did I ever hear "Babe, thank you, no one in my life would've done what you did & I thank you for all of that. Cause, if you didn't help me, I would still be sitting in jail with no one to bond me out... .it wasn't until I went to prison months about 9-10months later in an email to me did she finally say thanks to me for that ! To say the least I was shell-shocked ! Then, after my saying thank you, in response, I come to find out she overdrew my bank acct by thousands & the bank shut the card off, then, after her finding out the card was shut down, she automatically blamed me for doing that, all the while she knows I am in prison, knowing full well I cant do that, but, still she held me accountable, I became the Spawn of Satan. So, am I wrong to expect or want a thank you ? I have wrestled w/that notion for awhile ! There is so much more that I have done for her, I only grazed the tip of the iceberg, but, keeping in line w/what RH is saying, I as well have a hard time when thank you are not forthcoming. I have a friend that does some of this "new age thinking", & they have told me that I am wrong to expect a "thank you"... .!

That if I wanted to do a favor for some one & they do not say thank you, then, that is alright, basically what they are saying is I am "expecting" validation, & if I truly did something out of kindness & want, then, expecting a thank you is something way out of pocket. Because, as they say, I should be doing a favor w/no expectations in return. Whatever that person decides to do or say is entirely up to them & I have no business thinking of anything they didn't say or do in an adverse light !

I am truly interested in some more responses ! There comments to me truly have me in a state of confusion. RH, I PM'ed you a few days ago !"

RH, I empathize with the fact that you have AS, and I agree that when people grow up with AS, they are likely to accept love and friendship in any form, since they can suffer loneliness and rejection. Also, people with AS are empathetic.

The issue at hand is who you choose to do things for, what you choose to do, and your belief that you are worth having someone care about you for who you are. Also how much drama do you want to deal with in your life. Then, there is a distinction between co-dependency and inter-dependency with people, giving from the heart, or from another place such as fear.

You have choices, but giving out of fear, giving to protect yourself from being hurt, or to keep someone interested you takes a toll on you because what you are giving, and possibly receieving isn't from an authentic place. It is very hard to even know the difference, but looking at how you feel is a clue.

Let's say I see something in a store that someone likes, like a shirt for a friend. I know this would look really good on them. I'm excited to think they will like it so I buy it and give it to them. I feel happy about this.

Let's say my friend wants this shirt, and I think if I give it to them, they will like me. I want them to like me. I buy the shirt so they like me and don't dump me for another friend.

Let's say my friend is always getting into some kind of bind, the car breaks down, she looses a job, she always calls me, and I feel like I need to help her. I want her to think I'm a good person. If I don't help her, she might look for another friend.

Let's say my BFF has to put her car in the shop, and she needs a ride to work. I'm happy to do this for her. Last week, when I had to be somewhere, I called her to pick my kids up from school. She did, and brought them to her house where they played with her kids. Next weekend, I'm taking all our kids to the movies together.

Do you see the difference between these relationships? It isn't up to your gfwBPD to decide what your should do for her, it is up to you. She can always decide to find someone else if you don't do things for her. You will need to decide your boundaries in the relationship.

Notwendy, thank you for your words and your perspective  

What you said makes a lot of sense especially when explained that way. It can sometimes be lonely, but I know in my own case, we spend much of our lives trapped inside our own head like viewing the rest of the world through a window. Loneliness does play a part because of that so for someone to reach out and see us through the window does feel special. Rejection is something we have a lot of time getting used to to the point it becomes acceptance so holding on to the good and denying the bad in someone. I think that's our part in black and white thinking, we know there is good, bad an indifference but only choose to see the good even if something is harmful.

What I got from your post is that if BPDgf is having a crisis, there is nothing wrong with empathy or sympathy. Likewise, if she wants or needs my help and if I can and want to help, that's ok. If I'm doing something else, or can't help or even feel uncomfortable, I have every right to say no. That I should base my own actions around how I feel about them rather than out of concern as to how she would feel about me if I dont do it. Am I on the right track there?

However she chooses to act towards me as a result and her own actions are her responsibility and not mine to take on. So if she chooses to act out or comes out with nasty comments, I have to see past that being personal and that's where my boundaries need to be placed too. As to what I will allow and what I won't allow.

I found myself in that position last night. I meet up with friends for a meal once a month but whenever I'm doing something, she will always call. Last night when I went out, in order to avoid that, I left my phone at home to avoid the temptation. Was only out for a couple of hours but sure enough got home to several missed calls.

Tried to call her back because I was home and had the time to do so but she didn't answer. Sent her a text to let her know I was home and free to talk if she wanted to. Heard nothing at all from her, not even a text back to say its ok.

This morning I did start to feel concerned. Started to think that maybe I should have taken my phone with me last night but after reading your post, her actions right now are not my responsibility. I had every right last night to go out, see my friends and enjoy myself. She knew I was out and as always chooses that time to "hijack" my time, she does the same thing with my therapy sessions too. The fact she chooses those times are not something I'm responsible for and I'm not responsible for her choosing to ignore me or rage if I'm not available for her. If anything, I've previously enabled that behaviour through my own actions and that's what I need to change with me.

So with the TV situation, I was able to help in contacting some of my friends that I knew could help. I drew the line at paying for it because even though I felt bad for not offering or doing that, I would have been acting out of fear and obligation if I had done. Either way, how I feel about it is my responsibility to own.

I think that's where the line crosses for me because if she calls in a rage, I take on the responsibility of her feelings. I take on the guilt and then do things to make her feel better and in turn alleviate my own feelings of guilt. Where what I should be doing is leaving that on her doorstep to own and only do what I feel comfortable with.

Had it been me who broke the TV, that's a different story because then I do have a responsibility and her feelings towards it are entirely justified. However, as it wasn't me, I have a duty to be sympathetic to her issues, listen to her concerns and aid where appropriate without taking on the guilt as though I had caused her problem.

That's a definite pattern for me and I recognise it through my own FOO because that's pretty much what my mother used to do to me as a child. I can't go back and change that but I can recognise it, learn from it and start to break the cycle.

So this morning, sent her a text to wish her a good morning and to have a pleasant day today. Dont feel I have to justify why I wasn't around to take her call last night but also to let her know, I am thinking of her and hopes she does have a nice day today.

Thanks again Notwendy, your response makes a lot of sense  

RH, yes, you have the choice to participate or not in the game. You have the choice to help out a friend, or say no, go out with friends, leave your phone, whatever.

Do you see what is going on when she doesn't answer your texts after you didn't answer her calls? ( when you left your phone? ). She's doing to you what she felt you were doing to her. Then you get worried about her not responding and pursue her. This is a part of the  push pull dance and you are dancing along with it.

All of us here are in relationships with pw BPD, and so we are all in this dance. However, for some of us, the dance is being inauthentic, not pursuing our own goals, not taking care of ourselves and this leads to our unhappiness. You do have the right to go to dinner with friends and not answer your phone. However, I doubt your GF will be happy about that. The choice you have is to do something you want to do and face her unhappiness, or not do it ( deny your happiness) so that she can be happy.

My T is working with me on this. I have a hard time tolerating someone I care about being distressed. However the only way I can not distress my loved one is to not assert my right to self care. This isn't healthy. However, what I want to do- like you, is not doing anything wrong- just go to dinner with friends, keep my job, be who I am. The way I am going to be able to do this is when I can tolerate the bad feelings in my loved one- recognize that they are his feelings, not mine, and not cave in.  If I manage his bad feelings for him, then I deprive him of the opportunity to learn to deal with them. If I relieve my bad feelings ( fear, worry, reacting to his blame and feelings)- then I am not really doing something for him, but for myself, and I am not being honest to myself.

You care about your GF, but you are also taking on the stress of her bad feelings when you do things that you have every right to- go to dinner, work, have friends, keep the money you earned, decide how to spend your money. This is your life and your money.

Keeping you in worry is emotional blackmail. Do I worry about my mother, living on her own? Yes. Could something ( heaven forbid) happen to her? Yes. Is help available to her ( friends, family, neighbors?) Yes. Am I willing to move in with her, take care of her, watch her to make sure she is OK? No. Do I feel a little guilty not being as attentive to my mom as she would like? Yes- because I think it is important to help my parents.  Do I have the right to keep my boundaries? Yes.

For me to assert my wish to not be available to her 24/7, I am paying the price of her occasional distress and my guilt. I would feel very badly if something happened to her, but if I agree to be there all the time, it would be to relieve my own guilt and worry, not be of service to her. There are other people who can help her better than I can, and they live closer to her than I do. I have to trust that she's able to get help. I also have to trust that each time she doesn't answer the phone, it is not because something is wrong, or something I did.

If you expect your GF to tolerate you not answering the phone, then you have to also manage your feelings when she doesn't answer. Hopefully it is not because something is wrong. That's a possibility, but so is, leaving in uncharged, leaving it in her purse, being busy, or any number of reasons where she could be just fine.

I shall respond later in more detail, as I have my children over right now, but your post makes a lot of sense again Notwendy.

I'm really sorry you are having to navigate the dynamic too and I'm extremely grateful for the insight you are able to provide, albeit because of your own experiences.

BPGgf did respond a short time ago. The silence was because she was annoyed I didn't answer. It turned out she had nothing to do and wanted me to go pick her up to take her out. I didn't answer so it left her annoyed as she had nothing to do.

In my response, I sympathised with her predicament and explained it would have been difficult for me to have gone anyway as I had other plans. Finished by saying that maybe we can find a day next week when we are both not busy and plan something for then. I get that she is annoyed but I'm not going to carry that for her. I have my children over now so my focus is on the things we have planned this weekend.

I could see stuff like this getting said in Naval Aviation... .we tended to be a  blunt group... kinda an off brand of humor... .

I probably flew overhead you at some point in time... .   :)

We did too, though it didn't usually extend to patients. You may very have flown over us,  spent a lot of time out on the ground and lots of air units everywhere we went :)

Had a good day today, sticking to what was discussed in the above posts. Kept my boundaries and had a few texts following on from her being angry earlier. Didn't fall into the trap, diffused the situation and brought things back on track.

She was angry I wasn't available on Friday night, so I gave her alternatives for next week and we agreed on a day when she isn't working and I'm free. It's the night before her birthday. Last year I kept her company on the night before her birthday and into her birthday because she had nobody and was alone, she had self destructed her friendships and her previous relationship and was in a rough way.

She figured out tonight that I will be doing the same this year, she has self destructed all her friendships, self destructed our relationship and yet I'm still there to spend it with her. It then hit her how she treated me yesterday for not answering the phone, the resentment she had towards me as a result and yet I'm the one person still standing beside her. It triggered her big time.

The suicide threats started again tonight. Things such as she was in the bath and that a bottle of pills would help her slip under the water and end it all. That the pain of how she treated me was so intense she just wanted to die.

Worst part, was in the car with d14 when she started sending the texts through and my car reads out my text messages so d14 heard it all too. Told her I was really sorry she was feeling that way and that I couldn't imagine how she was feeling right now. Gave her reassurances that she wasn't on her own and asked what had triggered these feelings. Asked her if there was anything I could do that would help her feel better and her response was to kill her.

Told her that was never an option, called her and we talked for a bit. I tried to change the subject by asking what she got up to at work today, how her colleagues were and what her plans are for tomorrow. Talked about what she was watching on TV and anything really to take her mind away from her thoughts. She eventually seemed calm enough and was going to bed.

Its those moments I find most difficult to deal with because I know she is suffering and hurting. Why I find it difficult is that she hurts because she realises how she has treated me, but turns to me because she is on her own. Of course I'm going to be supportive and I now deal with the situation when she is angry but I struggle with how to navigate around it when she is hurting to the point she talks about ending her life.

 

One thing to consider... .

Suicide threats are tough to deal with... .especially when you believe they are bluffs... .you can be right 99% of the time... and the 1% you are wrong... .there are no redos.

I would ask you to consider some options... .

Telling her you are not qualified to deal with such talk... .and... .

Sending her crisis line number.

or

Hanging up and calling 911... .sending authorities over for welfare check.

Tough business... .thoughts?

There are a couple of things to think about with the suicide threats.

First, you are not a trained psychologist/psychiatrist and even if you were, you are not her therapist, and so, you are in no position to deal with a suicide threat. Consider this to be an emergency- as if she called you to say she broke a leg- would you think that could be treated by talking to her on the phone?


If someone is threatening suicide, call 911 and tell them to go to their home.

This has two purposes: If the person is truly suicidal, then they need urgent medical attention. You are in no position to decide if this is intentional or a bluff.

Now, for the other consideration- is she bluffing? Why would anyone do this? Because it works for them. They get your instant attention, draw you away from anything you are doing, and put you in the position to "rescue" and be responsible for them. The more something works for them, the more they know they can do it.

You can't really be responsible for a suicidal person. Calling 911, even if they are bluffing, affirms to you and them that this is not something you are responsible for, and a serious threat. If they are bluffing, this will not reinforce that behavior, and if they are not bluffing, then it will get them the medical attention they need.

Ripped Heart, I'm so sorry for your difficult situation. 


I know that you had only the best of intentions, and did the best you could given your situation. I'd just like to offer some advice for the future.

When someone is expressing suicidal thoughts, do not try to change the subject. These are very real feelings and fears (whether or not the threat is "real" or not), and need to be addressed as such. You can give her the number of a suicide/crisis hotline, or encourage her to call her doctor/therapist (if she has one who takes afterhours calls), or call 911.

Like Notwendy said, you're not a trained psychologist and aren't her therapist. You're under enough emotional strain with this difficult relationship, and have to take care of yourself and your daughter. The most caring thing you can do for her when she's expressing these self-destructive thoughts is encourage her to seek professional help (or have it sent to her doorstep by calling 911).

If you do need to talk to her during a suicide threat, here are a couple of pointers--

• Assess her intention and means. There's a big difference between someone who has a loaded gun in his/her hands and very little ambiguity about dying, and someone who has a bottle of Tylenol PM in the medicine cabinet and is thinking "maybe it would be better if I were dead." (This will also help you if you decide to call 911, as you'll have more information.)



• Reflective listening, validation, and SET are your best friends.

pwBPD live on immediate reactions, and being able to read (even if it is misconstrued) reactions and nuances of others. This guides their next reaction.

It seems even though you might have a lot of thoughts going on in your head this is not always obvious on the surface, to her almost masked. This creates confusion in her as you are not reacting as quickly as she likes. Hence the accusations of not caring, this leads to upping the provocation.

Later she then realizes she upped it too far, feels like a failure, feels like she messed up. Catarophizes it leading to extreme depressive state.

Learning the art of "supportive small talk' ie expressing support and emotion, without actually saying much of substance, helps. Trying to say something of substance is what causes us to stop and think (The mask). Saying words of support without trying to say anything significant, even trying to distract is significant, sends a supportive emotional wave without triggering reactions. It provides a space for them to exhale and calm themselves down.