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Here is the previous topic... .https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=240685.0 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=240685.0)

     If the vehicle is in my name only in this state, she does not have any claim/right to it.  Why won't she just do the right thing (she says she wants to make the marriage work and fix the black and white issues yet won't budge) in this instance?  It's frustrating.  Is she seeing where how firm I stand on this?  The control issue with her is nuts.  I'm tired of it.  I still want to know what she meant by "she forced me" to keep her on the insurance.  

Uhm. Stop trying to understand crazy. It doesn't matter what she thinks about insurance right now.

YOUR problem today is that you have a legal obligation on the Lexus that is preventing you from buying a car you can drive. She is being part of that problem.

Talk to a lawyer. Ask for strategies that will force her to either:

A: Get her to give you the Lexus and get her name off the title

-or-

B: Get her to take full responsibility for the Lexus, getting you off the title and the loan so you can your own car.

So my wife called me (out of the blue a few minutes ago) and told me that she was going down to the credit union first thing in the morning to sign the car over into her name.  I told her I appreciated that she is doing that.  My mom told me that she thinks she got real with herself and knew if she didn't do that it she knew I would be done and file for divorce and rightfully so.  I told her that there is no way you can spin that to anyone and they understand how she would do something like that.  We'll see if she follows through, but I think she will.  I'm relieved.

 |iiii Sounds awesome.

Just to confirm--she doesn't need you there to sign does she?

And if she doesn't, I still think you should call a lawyer for a consult... .Maybe a prepaid legal service like FF's would be a good idea for you?

 

Start thinking of ways to reinforce good behavior.  If she signs this over... .and you get the car you need. 

Don't want to overdo it... but you want to make sure she understands that you appreciate her listening... .and acting... .on your request.

Thoughts?

This is very good news... looking forward to an update tomorrow saying that this is over.

Well, my wife found a way to dysregulate over text today before we had to trade in the vehicle this evening. Our loans with the credit union were contingent on the Lexus being traded in.  We agreed to trade it in on mine first together because her vehicle was more expensive.  She did have an appointmnent yesterday at 6 to go look at a vehicle, and I found one online so we went to look at it, I decided to get it, and while going through the paperwork phase, she went down to look at her vehicle in the Lexus after they appraised it.  They jacked her around and she walked out.  I met her for a bite to eat, and noticed she was mad that I was in my new car, but let it go and never broached the subject except to say we would find her the one she wants.  This morning, I guess she was mad that I wasn't with her at the dealership last night and so I tried to talk her through it over text because she wouldn't answer my phone call.  She told me that if I was going to trade in the Lexus, I would need to provide her a rent car.  I said "Wife, I hear that you don't have the money for a rent car.  They are expensive.  It cost me quite a bit when I had to fix our van two months ago.  Can you help me to understand why you feel I have the money?"  She then dysregulated and we got into it. I tried hard, but finally just told the truth.  I didn't care.  I told her that she is mad that I got a new car before her and that was hers to deal with.  I told her that I am tired of her manipulative, abusive games and she is throwing a temper tantrum.  She tried to turn and project everything onto me and said, "I won't be left stranded!  Your choices do nothing but cost me money!"  . Seriously?  What the heck? That's what she did to me and I told her so.  I just told her that my choices the last seven months speak for themselves.  "I have kept you on my insurance, I paid seven months worth of car notes, and took care of you every time your sick and had surgery.  I told her that I would get this car through the dealership on my own because I can't make her do the right things.  She said that being married to me has drained her financially.  That's hilarious considering I'm her only husband that has had a jobs. She told me to leave her alone.  Geez, tired of this crap.  I have to go to the dealership and see what they can do.  This is ridiculous.

One thing she said at the end of the text string was that she wanted to be separated from me financially from me because it was the right thing for her.  I  lol because if that was the case, she wouldn't have any problem trading in the Lexus.  She also said she is done with my mess of a life and ready to move on.  I responded with, "I'm sorry you feel that way.  You don't want to be separated from me anymore than I do you.  She said I haven't known what she has wanted for a long time.  I'm like, it effing changes every day for the last seven months.   . That's when I said I'm sorry she feels that way will get the car at the dealership on my own and I can't make her do the right thing.  I don't care if that's invalidating. 

Your wife dysregulated, and you told her what you thought. I get that loud and clear.

I'm confused about the financial situation:

Are you still joint owner of the Lexus with her?

Do you now have a car in your own name, with your own loan, and your own insurance, and no way for her to meddle with it unless you are stupid enough to let her touch the keys?

(I don't care if she has a car or not either :) )

 

So... .if you are still a joint owner on the lexus... .then yes... .you need to stay involved and make sure the trade happens... .do not sign anything on her side... .but do what you can to set it up.

If you are no longer a joint owner on the lexus... .and you have your vehicle... .and that can't be undone... .then drop the issue.

Literally... .never speak of it again... .she wants to be financially separate... .then there is no reason to discuss finances.

I suspect... you are still on hook for lexus... .make sure to clarify this

No, we were going to trade in the car toward my own car in my own name.  And then she was going to buy a car in her own name.  That was what we agreed to.  When I left the dealership with my new car last night and she had trouble doing a deal for hers, she was mad.  After they appraised the Lexus for the trade in, she ran down to look at a car.  I wanted to go with her, but even she told me to stay.  Later of course she threw it up to me.  She kept the Lexus over night and when it came time to trade it today, that is when she dysregulate do and said she was going to keep it until she found a vehicle and ultimately that wants to separate from me "forever".   . I know that's not true, but still.

 

So... who owns the car that you are driving?

Well, once the deal is done, me.  But I that deal is based on the Lexus being traded in.  If she won't, then I will have to go through the dealership for financing and don't know if they will since I have the other one in my name.  This is tough.  Again, I feel like she has me over a barrel.  I hate that she won't just do the right thing.

when will she stop her crap?  I know that she has been doing better, but she says she wants to get rid of the "black and white issues"... .Yet she does everything she can to stay embroiled in them.  I know she loves me and doesn't want me to go anywhere, yet does crap to purposefully sabotage.  Yes I know it's her illness, just venting... .

 

So... the dealership is letting you drive the car... .but it is up in the air if the deal is done?

How long can that go on?

That is a great question.  If I don't hear from her today, I will have to do the deal through the dealership and have them find me financing without the Lexus as a trade in.  Not sure if they will. We will see.

My wife just texted me and said I need to return a glove that belongs to our son, that it is upsetting him and I need to do the right thing... .Unfortunately, I can't find it... Haven't answered... .I need to do the right thing?

Of course this is about the car ML not the glove!

Just text or phone saying you can't find the glove that's enough.

To me, that is a diversion and a chance for her to further dysregulate.  Don't want to go there... .

ML even if you respond re glove you don't have to enter in to her dysregulation that belongs to her.

I have written this but not sent it yet.  What do you think?

I can see how important the glove would be to our son because of what his grandfather meant to him.  It is extremely frustrating when things aren't returned to you when you've asked for them back several times.  I thought I knew where it was, however, I can't find it.  I am still looking for it and finding it is a priority.

ML just try saying 'I've looked for the glove, but haven't found it yet will keep looking' or something like that keep it simple

I think this will be ok... .it's a bit of a dig at her... .but it is the truth.  If anything... I would shorten it more.  Don't tell her you can't find it... you are looking.

Already sent it.  She tried to say I deceived her.  Simply said I wasn't and that I would make finding it a priority.  She said, "Right.  Sooner rather than later".  I didn't respond till later and said, "Can you help me to understand why you are focusing on this rather than helping me solve the car situation?  It is hindering both of us and damaging our relationship with the credit union."  No response.

 

Which version did you send?

Maroon, the Lexus is in your name?  :)o you have an extra set of keys for it?

FF, I sent this one:

I can see why he would be upset.  His grandfather means the world to him and the glove has sentimental value.  It is extremely frustrating when items aren't returned after asking for them back.  The glove wasn't where I thought it was and I am continuing to look for it.  I will make sure he gets it back as soon as I find it.

She asked me if I left it with the softball organization and I told her I have looked there and they are helping me also.  She said that I made her believe I knew where it was.  I told her that I believed that's where it was, so I had no intention of deceiving her and left it at that.

123Phoebe:

The Lexus is in both of our names.  No I don't have any keys for it and she would have to sign the title to trade it in.  

Oh whoops, sorry   I read your first post in this thread and thought it was in your name.

Then I read the second one from GK and wondered what's stopping you from seeking legal council?  Maybe there's nothing you can do if she won't sign, I don't know.  I'd find out though from somebody who does know!

Sounds like she's jerked you around an awful lot... .  Remember, nobody can jerk us around unless we let them.  I hope your car loan goes through, otherwise might have to buy something else?  Plan B!

Update:  We haven't spoken since day before yesterday and she didn't bring our daughter to softball practice last night either.  We have it again tonight, so we will see if she brings her.  I will not chase her and ask her where she is at.  She knows our daughter needs to be at practice. I think she doesn't want to face me at the moment.  Hopefully she was out looking for a vehicle last night.  Oh well.  Still waiting on the dealership to hear about their financing if she doesn't come through on the trade.

 

How long do you get to drive the vehicle without a loan in place?

I guess until they can/can't get me a loan through their financing department.  I'm sure they will let me know next week at some point.  They see that I have the pre-approval through my credit union (even though it is contingent which they don't know), they aren't in that much of a hurry.

Just heard from them and they said they can't do another loan without it being traded.  So, my wife has the Lexus and if she won't do the right thing, I could end up with nothing.  Hopefully I can talk some sense into her, or I may have to get her family involved again. 

Talk to a lawyer, not her family.

You can get your name off the Lexus by divorcing her. It will take a while, but not require her cooperation.

A lawyer may find you a less drastic alternative... .which also does not require her cooperation.

How long will she have the Lexus if you stop making payments?

ML this seems very much like a similar situation to the laptop, which I believe was never returned by your wife. What are your options to bring this to a quick resolution this time?

GK is right try not to involve her parents.

Just talked to my wife on the phone.  She said she is working in two vehicle deals trying to get the best deal and we can trade it in tomorrow after our daughters concert (which I'm not invited to).  Anyway, this is at least some good news.

You still need to talk to a lawyer... .and have one handy... .what if the deal goes south tomorrow... .then what?

I totally agree with GK... and others... .don't bring people into the situation that are not involved... .unless they are professionals that can help the situation.

So we are taking care of the car situation in just a few minutes.  She asked if I could take her to pick it up and I said sure.  She was being completely short with me.  While talking on the phone, I asked her if she was getting the car she wanted and she said, "No!"  And she told me what she was getting and could tell she had to settle for something different.  I said, "Well I'm glad you found a car!" And she responded with, "I'm sure you are".  I said I didn't mean it that way and asked if she liked it.  She said, "Yeah" with an "I guess so" tone in her voice.  She said when we get this car deal done that she was "done" and I told her, "I'm sorry she felt that way and that I cared about her and told her it takes both of us to make our marriage work.  She said she didn't want to talk about the marriage and I said, "Ok" and started to say something else about our daughter and she said, "Then shut up!  I'm not talking about the marriage!"  I just said, "Ok", I'll see you in a bit.  She said ok and then we hung up.  She is really dsregulated right now and it's sad.  I guess she really hates having to be responsible for her own bills!   . On a brighter note, I just bought myself a 55" 4K television yesterday!  It's awesome!  Of course my wife doesn't know!   :). She would probably crap herself!

 Fingers crossed that the car deals get done today... .and this part of your life can get settled.

So my wife has chilled a lot since we have been together so far, even joking with me.  She has gotten upset once and didn't want to tell me where our daughters region choir concert was.  She said she was going to be late to her concert and that she still had to pick up a t-shirt for her and something else.  I asked where (thinking she had to pick up the t-shirt in a different place), and she said, "Why do you keep asking me something that I don't want to tell you?"  I said I wasn't and asking where she had to pick up the T-shirt and I said I have to go to the restroom and got up.  I came back and she was calmed down.  We have talked about dinner possibly and going to the store together.  It's amazing how quick their emotions change.  That still surprises me sometimes.  It's also sad that she tries subconsciously to deprive the kids of the very thing she was deprived of.  A father... .Oh well.  She is picking up her car now, so it is DONE!

Told my wife a few minutes ago that I loved her and she said, "Please don't say that to me anymore, it's just uncomfortable now!"  I said I'm sorry you feel that way and she said, "Can't you just do what I'm asking you?"  I said, "I do love you, but sure."  And went on to something else.  So effing strange!   

 |iiii She DID do the right thing about the car, even if she didn't like it, and had to get pissy about general stuff at the same time.

I guess take the good, and roll your eyes at the rest when you are safely out of sight :)

And ML you have a great big lovely new TV to watch. :)

Yes I do!  It's awesome.  Anyway, my wife asked while driving home from getting her car if I wanted to go hear our daughter sing at her concert.  I said I would love to!  I was thinking, "Who are you and what have you done with the woman from a few minutes ago?   lol  We went and had a great time and then invited them to go eat to celebrate our daughters accomplishments.  We had a wonderful time and then we each went home to our separate places.  I called and asked if she wanted to FaceTime and she said, "Yes after we (her and our daughter) watch a movie.  I said ok.  Talk to you in a bit. 

Quick question.  Why is it she was so rude until she picked me up (and a was for a short time after) and then softened?  Is it object constancy that causes that or something else or a mixture of things? 

Well... we will never know for sure exactly how their minds worked.

But... .generally speaking they are reacting... or acting out on a emotion/feeling that is troubling them.  In this specific case... .my guess is that whatever was stirring the pot on those emotions is gone... .and the new emotions (happier) took their place.

Remember... .feelings equal facts... .equals their reality.  So... .they don't "remember" the bad stuff from before... .their world now revolves around the good stuff of now.

Thoughts?

I see what you mean.  After dinner, we walked out the door of the restaurant and she walked to her car and got in.  I stood there for a sec until I realized she wasn't going to say anything to me and I went and got in my car.  I guess she realized she almost left without saying thank you and drove up next to me and said, "I want to thank you for dinner."  I said, "You're welcome,anytime."   I think I'm back to the silent treatment again as we haven't spoken since I called her after dinner last night and we were supposed to FaceTime.  I texted to ask if she was done with her movie and no response.  This morning I texted to say good morning... .No response.  I then texted after church about 1 o'clock to see if the kids (older two) had a good time on their church function over the weekend... .And still no response.  I am a little hurt after paying for dinner last night (maybe resentful?).  I didn't do it in exchange for anything other than to celebrate our daughter getting a prestigious honor.  I'm trying not to feel like a sucker.

Maybe I'm overreacting.  This is obviously her issue.  I guess it is difficult when she paints me black in her mind for days, and than we have a great time, even doing some stuff that always seems to happen when we spend time together (finishing each other's sentences, knowing what each other are thinking, holding hands, our daughter telling her I'm her husband which happened at dinner last night, etc) and is having trouble with the splitting.  Honestly, I want normal... .I want to feel like I'm a priority for a change and not her crap.  Make sense?

 Wanting it makes sense.

:light: Expecting it from her is setting yourself up for disappointment.

She isn't stable enough in herself to be consistent in how she treats anybody else.

I know that in my mind, but sometimes I need a reminder in my heart.  I'm better now.  It must be a miserable existence to be so up and down with emotions that stability is very difficult.  The hard thing sometimes is when you realize how unimportant they make you feel  and yet how everyone else feels about them becomes the most important.  Last night at dinner, she took and posted a picture of our daughter on Facebook and commented that she was celebrating her choir performance, but again, nothing regarding me being there or me paying for it (not that I would expect her to even if everything wasn't so screwed up).  Of course that has happened several times, but it's ridiculous because what she is portraying is close to being a big fat lie. 

Feeling a little down/pissed.  I tried to FaceTime my wife about an hour ago and no answer.  She then posts immediately to Facebook about Red Velvet Oreos (and how addicting they are, told her last night I still haven't been able to find them and knowing red velvet cake is my favorite and was my grooms cake at our wedding) in the first post and her new car in the second post telling everyone how awesome her car salesman was (by name) and how "out of his way" he went to go pick up the perfect car he found for her and how he drove for two hours to go pick it up and take it back to the dealership.     Geez.  I know it's not about me, but good God!  It feels like it is.  And frankly, I feel a little jealous and know I shouldn't because painting him white is an illusion.  It pisses me off that nothing I do can she recognize.   Amazing how last night after the car deals how everything was great until after dinner.  Still feels like I'm being punished for her now having a car note.  She can shove the Oreos and the car salesman you know where.  I'm sick of the games and frankly, I'm sick of her sickness and her not doing anything about it.  There, I said it.  Sorry for venting.  Why do I let the silent treatment still get to me at times?

     I'm much better this morning after sitting and sleeping with my feelings.  It is hard sometimes dealing with her behavior.  Yes, in some ways she is better, but in other ways I feel nothing has changed.  I do feel grateful for the changes that have happened within her.  Last night I talked to someone I trust and they told me that it's like she is leading a double life.  That was a confirmation.  James 1:8 says, "a double-minded man is unstable in all his ways."  "The proof is in the pudding" so to speak.  When we were together for the most part that day, we were talking about a future, laughing together, thinking the same thing and she commented about how deep our connection is, etc.  Then, to the outside world, she posted a picture of our daughter and said "she" was celebrating "her" daughters accomplishment.  Again, nothing about me being there or me paying for it (not that I need recognition for paying), and that isn't the first time.  To her facebook "friends", I don't exist any longer I guess.  

    The other night when I took my wife and daughter to dinner, I did it because I wanted to.  I did it because I wanted to spend time with them, celebrate our daughter's accomplishment and to treat them to dinner.  Even though she drove up a few seconds later and said thank you, when she walked to her car without saying it and me standing there, I will admit, that stung.  Along with her facebook post of "celebrating with her daughter" (nothing about me being there), and then after her walking to her car without saying a word (even though she drove up a few seconds later and did) while I was standing there, I felt something I never thought I would never feel again after my ex wife.  I felt like I was an afterthought, that I didn't matter and that I was a meal ticket.  :)uring the silent treatment yesterday, it hurt.  I was trying to think why she would revert back to that.  I realize I wasn't wearing my wedding ring the other night.  Maybe that triggered her.  We also had a conversation about life insurance (talking about the wreck from a week and a half ago first) and she made the statement that my ex-wife would get it all if I left it to my kids and I rememebered that I hadn't changed my wife as my primary (changed it this morning to my kids).  I told her that I kept her as the primary because I always trusted her to do the right things with it (never trusted my ex and never had a reason to not trust my wife with it until the last few months).  She said her kid were her primary and I said that I agreed with that considering the situation with her ex husband.  I didn't say this, but I also feel that way because I want her to know that I don't want her money and don't need it if something happened.  Maybe she felt bad and that was a trigger.  Regardless, I am not going to worry about it as her issue is her issue.  I know I ramble and repeated some things, but it helps me to get it out.  I see my T tomorrow.  I need it honestly.  One thing I realize is that I'm spinning my wheels in our r/s and life right now and God really impressed upon me this morning to get my vision back, whether she wants to be a part of it or not.

So, the silent treatment stopped for a short time today and now she is dysregulating again.  And I know this has nothing to do with me.  So we got my car deal done and the trade in signed off on.  Now, her car deal was supposed to be done today.  She signed a "dummy loan" with the place she bought the car in order to take the car off the lot.  She has to have financing through our credit union to replace that loan by tomorrow or she gets stuck with that loan at 16% interest.  The credit union told her today that since it was used, they would finance 90% of the loan and needed the other $2400 dollars down (its amazing that is the same amount of money in car notes that I paid for her vehicle since the separation).  Anyway, she started to blame and project onto me that I caused this mess and that she always has to clean up after me.  I validated about how difficult the wreck has made things, especially how it is an inconvenience since she wasn't involved in it at all.  I said it is unfortunate fallout from the other guy not paying attention, but the blessing is that we all came out of it ok.  I also told her I would pray that it gets resolved for her.  She then wrote this, "It has been very difficult.  I hope you have sweet memories of the luxury vacation i bought you and your kids last year (actually that vacation that we paid together was two years ago) while I try to make ends meet as a single parent.  You will have to answer to God for your choices during our marriage.  I'm angry and I don't want to hear from you anymore."  I responded with, "I can tell you are angry about this situation and having to struggle at times.  I can't imagine how difficult it is to feel like you are responsible for three kids by yourself with no support ever from their biological father.  It's horrible and inexcusable.  I'm not him.  I have always been there for our kids.  I am committed to supporting them and loving them as I do my own flesh and blood.  I still desire to and ask to be included. Yes we had problems, but we could have trusted God together, gone to counseling together for our marriage and alone for ourselves. I never wanted or asked for this separation."  She responded with, "You go ahead and live in that little world, ML.  We both know the truth.  No need to respond"  I didn't.   :)   But she is right.  The truth is self evident and she does know.  She is starting to feel the weight and consequence of her decisions.  Curious how she will handle this.  I won't step in and rescue.  It's actually nice to be on the other end of this for a change.

My wife must be reallllllly pissed about having her own car note or whatever she has decided to take out on me right now.   :). The other night after softball practice, some of the parents were asking me questions and my wife waited a few and then when I was still talking to the parents she left.  I tried to text her afterwards to say sorry that I didn't get a chance to talk to her and no answer.  Then today, I asked her to send me a picture of our insurance card (Obviously my insurance) as I needed some info for the doctor as I'm sick.  She still didn't respond.  She wouldn't respond with info that I pay to provide.  Wow.  Whatever... .

Good time to tell her about your new TV  lol lol lol

Seriously... .how are you feeling about her now. Do you even want to interact with her anymore, or just her kids?

That's exactly what I thought about doing!   Go ahead and rip the rest of the bandaid off!  :) lol. As far as interacting with her, I would like to have a healthy r/s with her.  I  do still love her and don't want a divorce still.  I know she isn't healthy right now, and don't know how much longer I can hold on honestly.  The way I'm looking at it is now we are down to the "nitty gritty" so to speak.  As you know, she has done everything to try and keep me embroiled in crap.  There is no more "side show" antics that can prolong the inevitable.  It's either she desires to get healthy and chooses what's best for her, the kids and our relationship or its divorce.  There's no way around that.  What I've wanted from the beginning of the separation is to get through all the "black and white" issues as she even called them to actually see what's left.  She expects me to leave her and let her keep her victim hood status.  If I walk away, I want to know I did everything I could to make it work.  Am I a sucker?

Time for more radical acceptance of who she is and how she is.  I think you just said you want a r/s with the person she isn't yet, but might be someday, maybe, perhaps... .that option is not on the table today. It probably won't be on the table for you in 2015.


Another question for you... .as I understand it, you are like a father to her kids... .without either legal responsibility or legal rights. Or any such things are limited, and would need to be proved in court, which would probably be a tough battle for you.

Do you think that staying separated but legally married to her (i.e. avoiding the trigger of filing divorce papers) will give you more contact with her kids? Or is that pretty close to zero by now already?


The reason I ask is this... .your actions might be a little different if your goal is to minimize conflict with her and see her kids, than if your goal is to restore the marriage. Not a big difference--You need good boundaries either way!

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