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Simple boundary - I won't be present for abuse.

Came home from work today to her obsessing about the weeding and money.  I tried to get her to take a break.  She responded with insults, cursing, screaming.  I told her I was going to take a walk and be back in 30.  I called the crisis line, scared.  The woman advised me to stay out for a little bit, come home and see how things went, and if things turned ugly, go out for the evening.  Sure enough, she came back screaming and insulting.  I left.  Told her I was going to a friend's house.  Abusive texts followed, harassing phone calls.  I started ignoring the calls, turned my phone off for a bit.  Turned it back on to call crisis line again, plenty more abusive texts, claiming I am abusive, autistic ?, etc.  She said she was going to smash all my "precious things".  Then told me she was breaking dishes.  I told her if she did not call the crisis line, I would call police.  She claimed to break more dishes, I called police.  Police arrived, saw no grounds to do anything.  I again pleaded with her to call crisis line.  But no threats made against herself, nothing they could do.  She's claiming she wants divorce, etc.  

I'm still at friend's house, turned phone off.  Crisis line is telling me to stay away.

Any idea what triggered all this? Had it been brewing for a while?

Sticking to your no abuse boundary is paramount

She called because one of the pets died.  Went home, yeah, pet was dead, then she wanted to lecture at me and be angry for awhile.  Now her accusation is that I have autism, everyone agrees including our MC, that I am on drugs (benadryl for allergies).  Too late to go back to friend's house, at 1:30 said I was gong to sleep on couch, 5 minutes after lights out, came in to lecture me some more, said she felt like killing me, asked me to leave.  I refuses, she insisted and screamed until I left.   Hope the rest of the pets are okay.  Now at a hotel, she's still ranting via text messaging.  I want to shut the phone off, but considering that she could become suicidal - is this wise?  

Uggh.  

Money.  She claims we are dirt poor and I am controlling all finances.  Yes, brewing for awhile.  2 weeks still until her disability money comes, had to pay all her bills today, 200 bucks left.  She's been having a crisis about money every other day for the past few weeks. 

Paramount?  Really no other option at this point.

This includes the PETS!  One of the pets dies and just like, whatever, she says she feels like killing you?  Screams until you leave?


Yea, me too.  You can't save her from herself, max.  You can save the pets!  That is your responsibility.

Hi max it might have helped you more to continue on your previous thread so that you are able to see a more linear pattern for these dysregulations.

From your posts it is clear that your wife has been dysregulating pretty much regularly since the end of her last teaching job. There also continues to be certain issues that regularly trigger her; your family, pregnancy, money, pain, work and so on.

What she may also be aware of is that you are starting to struggle both physically and emotionally with her BPD.

What I can hear you are very good at is validating her, you sound kind and compassionate of her needs.

What might help you now is to really think about a plan of action for the crisis you outline here what you can do to help you feel less overwhelmed.

Some of the things you identified as crucial to help were having a P and a more proactive treatment plan in place for your wife.

Where are things with this, does she have a P, is this being sorted, is her T fully aware of how unstable she has become? What actual changes are in place since the last crisis ?

It is important for you to get to a place where you are not just reacting to each crisis, this type of response will disable you it is not sustainable. I lived in that way until I came here, now I accept that my h is going to dysregulate as part of the disorder and I have plans in place to help me cope. Max I spent a year on the phone to crisis support teams, phoned the police maybe 10 times over the space of a year it was chaos, my h was in chaos, I was in chaos. I also spent a lot of emotional energy hoping each crisis would be the last. It never was.

Your body is telling you loudly that something is up, maybe your own T, not MC, could help you put something in place that will protect you better in the future.

What do you think you need to do that will help you the most ?

Getting to that place were chaos may happen around you, but not drive your life is difficult but important. This relies on accepting it is going to happen, just like a rainy day.

In practical terms it means being prepared for these boundaries and arranging it in such a way that it doesn't grind your life to a halt. Having a productive plan B to get on with

 

How soon till she gets to see her P? 

A month

I'm a mess this morning.  3-4 hours sleep.  An hour in I woke up and it hit me like a freight train.  I need to not regret anything I did last night and to try and not analyze and fix what can't be fixed.  This has been building for weeks.  I had just discussed this with my P.  Night before she went on a similar rant about money, how she gave up good job to be with me, was all a big mistake, etc.  It was building in me, too, as I noticed I was losing patience and falling apart and knowing I needed boundaries.

She seems to be most mad and feel most betrayed by me calling police.  Yes, I know in the past that makes situation worse.  I avoided doing that until she mentioned she was acting violently.  I feel I couldn't take a chance, and was hoping that would be what would eventually get her to talk to a P.  I eventually did get her to talk to crisis line, she screamed at and blamed me to them, and then hung up. 

Any way to work with this?  Do something quicker due to emergency... .this is frustrating.


I wouldn't worry about what she thinks about you calling the police. 

Kinda me wondering outloud here... .but I'm wondering if they should be called sooner sometimes.  She's trying to "flick" the police issue on you... .when really... .she needs to be able to control herself... .and they wouldn't show up.

Max,

Think about patterns... .I'm thinking she is going to have a really self aware stage here in a day or two.  Thoughts?

I don't think calling the police ultimately does any good for helping with her mental health issues.  It's not like it teaches her that she must learn to control her emotions; she just is not capable.  But, calling the police does put light on the seriousness of the situation, gives a glimmer of hope it will force her in front of a P, but most of all makes some kind of record of this in the event things escalate in some way.



It's possible.  But this feels different.  Way more anger and vitriol this time.  Normally, she tires after a few hours.  Last night, she kept going.  Maybe if she goes to her AA meeting, talks with her friends and sponsor, I will get the self aware but still blame me stage in a day or two. I am sure she will want me to apologize for calling police.  But I don't know this time.  And I don't know where I stand this time.  I don't even know if I can handle this any more.  I deeply love her, but this feels like a wall.  I'm not sure I can apologize for calling police.  I'm not sure I can go forward unless she commits herself to more serious T, like DBT.  Half of me feels like going to the courthouse to file annulment paperwork today.  Probably just raw emotions driving that right now.  I just don't know what to do from here.

Calling the police can make things worse but for me max when my h escalated things into dangerous threatening destructive behaviour calling the police for me was just good boundary enforcement. I also felt safer because it was taken out of my hands.

My h was also really shocked that I called the police on him, accusing me of betrayal as well. He used to say 'not even my parents called the police on me and I was much worse' - perhaps if they had he wouldn't have ended up running off dysregulated and wreaking havoc in his past who knows. I'm not prepared to take that risk.

The situation is already made worse by the fact that she is dysregulating. Your actions are sound.

My rule of thumb for outside involvement is, overdoses, damage to property, injury to himself (punching himself in face or head, hitting his head off wall), running out of house on scale of 8/9 dysregulation, risk then to others. The swearing, shouting, l can disengage from, that's easy, it's the other behaviours that I am unwilling to deal with in isolation.

My h now knows I will involve others now if I have to, in hours his mental health team, out of hours, police and crisis team. I will also direct him to use this support if all the warning signs align for a serious dysregulation. In the event that he won't make the call then I do.

Before I came to this forum I was just trying to deal with everything, hoping if I kept mopping up the mess, sucking up and absorbing the chaos he would improve. He didn't, he got worse and my inaction made him worse. My boundaries were weak and I let him trash them through FOG.

Keep doing what you're doing max it is good boundary enforcement because your wife's behaviour needs to be visible to people/professionals other than you for this to act as a catalyst for additional care and improved treatment. I say this because your wife is someone who dysregulates in a way that can be destructive and dangerous and that is too much for you to manage on your own.

" I need to not regret anything I did last night and to try and not analyse and fix what can't be fixed."

Make this quote from you your mantra. 

Max I cross posted, it sounds as though FOG has you caught in your considerations around apologies and the police. No apologies are necessary, remember this is not something you have to get drawn in it with your wife.

Just not sure what to do now.  I had taken the day off so that she, myself, and her dad could go to our wedding site to check a few things out.  She sent me a message in the middle of last night saying she is still going to go, for "one last look", and plans on still inviting her dad.   Not sure how to respond.  I am still at hotel, but need to go home at some point to take care of deceased guinea pig. 

Max I know you're not sure but what do you want to do, presumably you plan on going home, you could text that you are on your way home and take it from there. Go home if there is any continuation of last nights abuse just leave straight away. Try not to talk about last nights dysregulation outside of MC. Leave this area alone and try not to be drawn into a discussion about it as it will most likely act as a trigger for you wife.

Can you test the waters with a neutral text, if no answer you can still return home and take it from there.

well, she sent a message saying she is still going to drive out to the wedding site by herself, or with her dad but she cannot get a hold of him.  She wants to take the deceased guinea pig with her.  I think that would be good for her, and give me a break.  Of course she blamed me for the reason her dad is not getting back to her. 

Max, how do you feel about going along with the ceremony now?

 

Hang in there max! 

Well, I wound up going to wedding site with W and her parents.  They were already expecting me to come, and W did not want to tell them she wanted to cancel just yet.  Wanted to make it look like all was fine.  Wife was talking with her parents about wanting to do this or that for the ceremony, talking about this person or that person who is coming.  So if she was just playing them, she was going above and beyond what she needed to do.  We get to wedding site, people bend over backwards trying to de-stress W.  Wedding coordinator, her dad, her stepmom, caterer all help put her mind at ease.  Those that know her already know her personality, those that don't have mostly figured it out. By the end of the day, it sounds mostly like she wants to have wedding again. 

Came home and buried pet in yard.  She questioned whether pet had heart attack because of her anger the day before. 

I guess I am okay with continuing with the wedding.  Not sure why. Her insults mostly roll off me, and I think I am getting better with boundaries. 

Will go to MC on Friday morning. 

oh yeah, still sleeping on sofa tonight.  No yelling or screaming, though.

That must have been surreal to be talking with wedding coordinators and her parents. I'm glad you've got a MC appointment tomorrow.   

Oh, for sure!    And it's eerie how much they seem to know wife's personality and try to calm her down.

They're probably thrilled to have you take her off their hands.   That sounds bad when I write it, but I'm sure they're glad to have a responsible loving son in law like you. 

Yeah - they kinda joke that way, but I know it is true.  They see me as sort of a "catalyst" that has brought their wild daughter back into their lives.  What I have noticed is that both her dad and stepmom seem to try validating type of communication techniques on her.  Sure, they frequently get frustrated and say invalidating things (as we all do), but yesterday I concluded that her dad and stepmom at some point must have sought advice on how to deal with her better.

Well, she's still upset.  Hugely upset.  Wants to blame me for everything.  Even for doing things she asked me to do.  She asked me to contact my sister about the possibility of my nephews having a role in the wedding ceremony.  I did.  Now she's upset at me for doing that. 

For her, everything seems to boil back down to me calling the police the other night or leaving when she became abusive and violent.  She's mad at me because her dad contacted me because I seemed upset yesterday.  Again, brings that back to me calling the police.  I guess this is an "extinction burst" ?

For me, I know she has been upset for weeks.  Every other day it has been something.  It's not just me.  One day our wedding coordinator is her friend and savior.  The next day, coordinator gets sick and in hospital, and suddenly wife thinks our coordinator scammed us.  I deal with this for weeks, finally enforce boundaries.  Not going to be present for screaming or other abuse.  She sees boundary as "control".  I did my best to make it clear to her that it's about me protecting myself. 

Somehow I need to convince her that seeing a P is for her benefit.

Do you have a relationship with her parents where you could have a heart to heart talk with them and plan strategies? If they've done some counseling work on dealing with her, you might have some good advocates.

Use phrases like "you are free to do whatever you like but I am not not going to do... " "we all have choices, you can choose yours, and likewise I am free to do mine"

Fear of control is a big issue, you are unlikely to change that. What it translates to in reality is they have a fear of NOT being in control. It is the attack is the best form of defence issue  (fight or flight) (control or be controlled)

I would think that MC would be a great place to clarify boundaries.  Not in an "in your face" kinda way... .but it needs to be clear that you will make choices for you.

Also... .I wonder if you need to have a new boundary that says you will not listen to blame... .might just be me... .but I seem to have picked up a vibe from you that either she is doing more blaming... .or it is not rolling off you like it used to.

This has got to be horrible to listen to... .so don't.






Is she at all resisting this?

max... .take some time out and think for yourself, WHY you think that this is acceptable behavior. Indeed, good enough behavior to upgrade the relationship to a marriage which will be harder for you to get out of.

And let me ask you another question--do you expect her behavior to get better or worse after the wedding?

Thought today would be the day things started to the remorseful/self aware stage.  Nope.  Still black as ever. 

An hour ago, she didn't even want me to go into the bedroom to get a change of clothes.  And just now, she came out to at least offer me pillows to sleep on the couch, and brought me the guinea pig to hold of a bit.

Bizarre. 

It's not bizarre it the contrariness that is BPD.

Remember max there is no need to explain your actions or your use of boundaries. This will just keep the craziness going. This is JADE.

Be very careful that you are not get into a triangulation set-up involving her parents.

What's happening with the P ?

I think P appointment is still not for another month.  Not sure if she found another T.  This morning is MC.  I am dreading it, knowing that it will likely be an hour of listening to more abuse.  Its a setup here where I can't win.  W will want me to Explain (JADE), and T will also want explanation.  Wife's big rage now is that I called the police.  She thinks it was to scare or control her.  I did it for her safety because the "safety plan" we discussed previously was not working.  She would not talk to a friend, her AA sponsor, or the crisis line, and she would not stop and take a breath or a break.  I will not put myself in the path of violence, and at that point the only option (as I know) for me was to call the police to check on her safety.  Sure, she did not verbally threaten her own life that particular night, but at lest three times in the previous week she had told me she felt suicidal or wanted to die.  I'm not sure how MC can help us get past this impasse. 

I'm starting to wonder if part of the problem here is the xanax.  Calms her down, but the times when it is wearing off are brutal. 

 

Please express yourself to MC that you don't want to be abused in session... .

There is big difference in "abuse" and "difficult"

This morning was more slamming doors and yelling.  She was mad because I was in the shower and she needed to get ready to leave.  Blamed me for not being able to change out of her pajamas... .

Then I told her that I think it would be best if we drove separate cars to MC.   Two reasons for this:

1)  Don't want to be in the car with her screaming.  I can almost guarantee that would happen.

2) I have a P appointment of my own an hour or two later.  It would be easier for me to just go from one straight to the other.

Of course, I did not tell her reason #1.  Reason #2 is legitimate on it's own, though.  And she is upset about this.

I hope you have a productive MC today...

Hang in there.

You don't need to tell her why. You just need to tell her you aren't getting into her car or letting her get into yours.

If you do want to... .keep it an "I" statement.

"I don't feel comfortable/safe driving with you today."

That is your feeling, and she can't argue with it.

(She can and will scream at you that she won't be screaming at you in the car 'tho!)

Well, that mostly was not fun or hopeful in any way.  Basically me listening to W insult, abuse, talk about how it's all over, no hope, nothing we can do, talk over me, not let me talk, yet still want to go thru with wedding for show only.  Grr.  I did my best to listen and try to understand what she is feeling.  Wish she was capable of doing the same for me.  T did try to step in and rescue me a bit at times, but the hour plus was mostly W blowing off steam, accusing me of being controlling, sick, mentally ill, autistic  , etc.

No real way of my W understanding at this point that my actions are out of love, concern, and self-preservation rather than an attempt to control or manipulate. 

Not sure where to go from here.  Another MC session is scheduled for next Monday night. 

Hmm... .describe the T trying to rescue you? 

Max,

Her abusive behavior has taken a heavy toll on you.  I think more boundaries need to go into MC about you not "taking it". 

If she is calm when saying she thinks you are autistic... .that is one thing... .but I am hearing that she was "launching into you... "

Possibly discuss with MC T... .that if she gets wound up at you... .that you will step out of the room to let her compose herself. 

Not sure... .I've never left an MC room.  I've had my wife stomp out several times.

Hello Max,

I'm sorry for all you have been through. I'm amazed by your patience and love. Having said that, if she wants so much to be over, why don't you let her go? At least for a try. And some piece of mind. Do you think it would create greater problems? In this case, what are you afraid of?

Sometimes after a while of taking abuse, we just become numb to it and start to feel like it's normal. And it's not. Do you have a close friend to talk to so he/she can give you some perspective about things? Please put someone else in your shoes. If your sister/brother were in a situation like this, what would you do to help them?

Please take care of yourself. Please validate YOUR feelings, for a change.

   

After a few minutes of basically rant from her, T would stop her and say things like, "I don't hear a question in there... ." or "obviously, Max must have a different perspective... ."  Basically, She tired to cut the rant off when it started to go way off the tracks.  I could tell that T felt overwhelmed, though. 

Good thoughts.  I guess at times I feel there.  But right now I feel that she is mostly just angry and threatening, because if she really wanted out, she would have taken different actions the past few days.  She wouldn't have agreed to go to MC today.  She would have ripped up the marriage certificate like she threatened to.  And I really think she would have called off the wedding if she truly felt there was no chance her.

I feel like "letting her go" is like "calling her bluff".  I'm not 100% ready to give up, yet.

If the MC T is overwhelmed by her ranting... .you aren't getting very effective stuff in MC, I don't think.

Well, I don't know for certain that MC was overwhelmed, but a few times during the rants, I looked over at her and she appeared to sigh and just blink her eyes.  She just looked frustrated.  At one point toward the end she made some kind of comment about not knowing what she could do for us at this point until the resentment subsided and we decided what we wanted to do.

Well, after work she wanted to get in one more rant - about how I have issues, need to get an Alanon sponsor and work the 12 steps, how she is going to talk to a mental illness advocate lawyer thru NAMI to protect herself from the damage I caused bu calling the police.  ?  Not sure where she got that idea or what she expects the lawyer to do, but I predict that when she does talk to the lawyer, the answers won't be what she expects.  She also said I should look at the NAMI website and consider going to their family support group meetings so that I can better learn how to deal with her.  I guess she doesn't know I have already read through their website, and that is where it tells me to call 911.  I guess her definition of "immediate danger" is much different than mine.  To me, someone who has talked about suicide or hurting herself within the past few days and is now acting violently is in "immediate danger".  To her, it's just blowing off steam.

After that little rant, she wanted to go out for dinner and then yogurt.  We talked some about finances and replacing the deceased pet... .

All in all the mood is calmer now.

Max, were you in the mood to be the target of one more rant?

HA!  Of course not.  But after the rants of the past few days, this felt like practically nothing.  And at this point it just so played out... .

Err... .time to work on excusing yourself from them more promptly.

Seriously... .you can enforce a boundary not to listen to that sort of thing, and it will be good for both you and for her.

"It could be worse" is a poor reason to put up with abusive behavior.

Hi Max,

To balance out all this constant cycling of dysregulation are there any areas you can think of where you have made good progress and maybe stabilized in the last few weeks?

You have a big turning point coming , which no doubt ups the stress and piles on the neg column, has much been added to the positive column? What progress?

Giving unbalanced attention to the negatives can feed them. It is far too easy to get bogged down in individual issues and loose sight of the bigger one. Which is ~Where were you?

~Where are you now? 

~where are you going from here?

~What is the unfolding pattern and where does it extrapolate to?

The future is an evolution from past through present. What does it look like it will be at best guess from you?

Max,

Trying to sort out the suggestions, advice and points of view that several have offered... .look at what you have said... .and I think I see a new boundary being pretty close.

What does a boundary of "I will not be present for any rant... ."  look like?


How have the rants affected the emotional health of the r/s?

Maybe it is a soft boundary to be more teachable.  You will give one or two gentle reminders... .before exiting.  Maybe this is so dramatic you wait and coordinate with P... .so he is bad guy saying don't be present.  Not sure.

But the overwhelming vibe that I am picking up from you... .and from others analysis of you... .is that you are done with the abusive behavior.

So... .be done with it.  Let the chips fall...

Thoughts?

Yes, sounds reasonable, but not really feasible ATM.  Without an IC and without a P, I don't think she is capable of stopping the rants at the present time.  And where does the line get drawn?  Rants about me or my family are certainly bad, rants about others are less so.  I've had to accept that her ranting and being negative from time to time is part of her personality.  If I can't accept that, then I think it is up to me to just end it rather than try and enforce a boundary here.  If this was something that was happening on a monthly basis, I could deal with it.  Every day or every other day? Exhausting. 

Yes, I am done with the abusive behavior.  And that is not just a decision, it's a necessity.  At this point, even if I get painted white again, I'm not sure how much baggage I will still be carrying and for how long.    But once again, I really don't expect the abusive behavior to ever completely stop, and probably won't change much until she gets an IC and a P.  And after that, I still see issues where our definitions of "abuse" will be different.  Right now, she claims I am being "abusive" for walking away and not listening to her when she starts screaming, claiming it is some kind of silent treatment and control mechanism.  What I am HOPING is for her to get in to an IC where she can work out some of these issues and understand things like personal boundaries.  Right now in her mind, she is still mostly looking at me as if I am the one with all the problems.  She admits she screams, yells, curses, and calls names, but it's still more my problem for not letting her rant and calming her down than it is her responsibility for stopping that behavior. 

Dude.

Boundary Enforcement.

It is about YOU, not about HER.

It doesn't matter if SHE is done ranting or not.

Boundary enforcement here is that you choose not to be present for the rant, to protect yourself.

She is free to rant at the wall. She is free to find somebody else who will listen, call them up, and rant at them (about you, or whatever!)

---

You've been here quite a while; I know you've seen and used the tools here a lot. Do you need help implementing it? I'm just giving you straight talk about the need for it, not details on how to do it.

Max GK beat me to it, from your post as I read it there seems to a fundamental misunderstanding around what a boundary is and what purpose it serves.

Waiting until your wife has an IC and a new P before you enforce boundaries around 'abusive rantings' sets up the perfect storm for someone with BPD to accelerate toward further dysregulation. Time to exit stage left and allow time for self soothing.

What purpose would ongoing exposure to such rants serve in the current emotional dynamic between you and your wife?

This is a great place for a help mu understand conversation... . Or ask her to provide some writing on this.

Not in an effort to fix it... .but to clarify where she is at.  With her new found self awareness... .she may realize that some of this is abusive or bad.

Max,

You have done great things in this r/s... .born great burdens... .I  really think you need to let those burdens shift.

I'm currently reading the "Boundaries" book by Townsend and Cloud.  They do a great job of explaining that people need to be allowed to "have" their own problems and not be rescued from them.  

Maybe this book would be something you could both read together.  

There are various pathways to the same thing... .that same thing being you have to get out of the line of fire... .\

Max... .seriously... .we all sense the toll this is having on you... .you need to get some strength back!

My last response was making it all about you. If you want to make it about her, it points you in the same direction.

If you take responsibility for calming her down and soothing her (by being a target of her ranting), YOU are enabling her to continue this behavior, PREVENTING her from taking her responsibility for finding a healthier way of self-soothing her own stress and hurts.

Enforcing a boundary of not being that sort of emotional punching bag will help both of you in the end.

I appreciate all of your concerns.

After reading GK's last response, I see that I was unclear that final sentence of my post was about the way she thinks, not what I think-

SHE thinks it is my role to sit and listen to her rants and help her calm down.  I certainly don't think that way. 

My point was that at the rate things are going right now, I don't think it is feasible to remove myself from the path of every rant unless we completely split up and she moves out.  They are just too frequent ATM (her whole day is a rant), SHE is not going to change and is not capable at the moment, and I am not completely ready to just end it.  That means, to me, the reality is enforcing boundaries against *any* ranting would be very difficult.  Right now I think it better to just focus on the more severe stuff.

I see my two options as this right now:

1) If I want or need to get myself out of the path of all ranting and negative energy as formflier suggests, I should move to the undecided or leaving boards because I think it is an almost certainty that it will bring about the complete end to the r/s.

2) Draw a boundary (for now) somewhere between the general "complain about the day" rants and the "I hate you you are scum" rants, find a way to make that clear for me (and for her) and enforce that and see if that helps me regain some head space.  Work on the really bad stuff for now, and worry about smaller stuff later.   It's like if a P was trying to help a drug addict - first get them to quit using drugs (the immediate danger), then work on the other behaviors. 

So, what are the differences to YOU, between her ranting about "stuff in her day" (other directed) vs ranting about and toward you (you directed)? Is the first less stressful? Does she ramp up from the first type to the second?

Max,

How does this statement relate to FOG?

Max,

I think you have identified a way forward.  Making a r/s better with a pwBPD is not about the big leaps and bounds... .but the TLCs.  Sometimes big things come along... but those tend to be rare... .IMO.

So... .maybe you need to split this into smaller parts.  Also... .this is similar to what I do with my wife... .if she is blasting someone else... .sometimes I just giggle to myself about some other poor sap getting it... .   :)

Plus... that's her thing... .I'm not the police for my wife's behavior.  If she wants to blast away at someone else... .it is my choice to stick around or leave.

So... .let's try to refine a boundary statement around her blaming you (in an inappropriate way... .yelling... whatever)  If she is calm but blaming... .try to stick with the convo.

So... .maybe I'll hush there... .please think about real life examples... .and try to put that into one or two sentences that you can say to her... .once... .to express a new boundary. 

Hang in there!

This is a basic bottom line and a good place for a boundary. rants about other issues are annoying but really only more so as they are fillers between this one.

Her expecting you to stay and endure these rants is her 'need'. To break pwBPD splitting down is quite simple, you meet their needs you are white, you dont you are black.

Removing yourself from this line of fire will paint you black, inescapable. It wont change until she doesn't "need" to rant at you. She wont change that need as long as supply is being met. So you will have to weather that until she gets used to ranting at you not being an option.

This may mean she switches and projects the emotions by ranting about third parties instead of you so that you stay there. You will at least have set a precedent over ranting boundaries.

Rants are underlying emotion driven not as issue driven as they sound. Hence they are not always about you, she just makes them issues about you as you are there and available as a release valve.

Sometimes our boundaries fail because we set the bar unattainably high. She has bottled up emotions, they have to be let out somehow, hence having no rants at all as a boundary is blocking all venting, which is bound to lead to a bigger explosion. Hence stick to taking the target off your back.

It would probably take extensive therapy to learn better coping skills to stress than just ranting.

My feelings on this - ranting about other people or things - hate to hear it, but this is a lesser issue and can be a boundary for later.  Rants about me, but in a somewhat calm voice - hate to hear it, but again she has BPD, and her first thought is naturally to blame others.  But if she is in a somewhat calm voice, that tells me she is in somewhat control.  And ranting in a calm voice maybe the best it can get for right now.  Rants about me while screaming, or name calling -->  no go.  I tried to discuss this difference in MC, and as I recall our MC also tried to get her to express herself without the name calling. 

So your boundary is "no rants in loud voices with name-calling"?

"I won't expose myself to loud voices and name calling."

Interesting today.  During her rage of this week, she accused me of being aspergers.  ?  She made that accusation again during MC on Friday.  She's got her list of "reasons" - that I can be somewhat shy at times, and she claims I sometimes don't look people in the eyes during conversation.  Yikes!  She even said I need to go somewhere to be "tested" for aspergers!  When you read the characteristics of Aspergers and know me, I don't fit the description at all.  But today, we were out with a friend of hers, and she made a comment about autism/aspergers, and said, "Max, you have to understand that my whole family likes to insult people by claiming they have aspergers.  But I don't even really know what that is."  I guess that is as close to an apology as I can get today!

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