BPDFamily.com

Living in chaos, fear and constant frustration can bring up a multitude of thoughts and emotions we never would have believed we would have about our own children.

What affect do these thoughts and emotions have on us as parents and our relationship with our children?

Feelings just "are"... .what then?  What do we do with the guilt we are left with for having such thoughts and feelings?

lbj

lbjnltx

We all have bad thoughts and feelings about pwBPD, because we are human, and we have every right to feel hurt, angry, disappointed, frustrated, etc. 

If we allow ourselves to "feel" these emotions, it is ok.  In fact, it is probably therapeutic. Then we need to rationally sort through them while being aware that we are reacting to a disorder, not a person, and it is not always necessary or wise to verbalize or act on our feelings.

We can experience these thoughts and feelings in our mind, and choose how or whether to respond. Once we are able to do this, it becomes much easier to control bad feelings and teach ourselves to let them pass without dwelling on them.  Some thoughts and feelings are just not worthy of causing us pain or guilt. 

I hope that makes sense.

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject Mammamia.

Since our emotions are driven by our thoughts for the most part, how can we better manage our emotions? (I avoid the use of the word "control" as instructed by several therapists) 


lbj

Ibjnltx

From what you have said, I assume you believe you need to better manage your thoughts so that they do not create unwanted emotions.   

Bad thoughts happen. What I do is feel them, dismiss them, and move on.  I do not share them with my BPDs. It is just like erasing a blackboard, it has become so much easier to "turn his hateful comments" off in my head. They are a manifestation of his disorder, and I choose not to allow them to upset me because it serves no practical purpose, and there is nothing either of us can do to stop them. 

I think "control" is a powerful word, and sometimes it is necessary to not only manage circumstances but to empower us to change them. Creating unnecessary thoughts and emotions that in-turn generate guilt may just be one such situation. 

What drives our thoughts?  Do we engage in thinking errors and ruminate?

For myself... .negative thoughts are borne from fears;  fears about things I can't control.  Fear is a powerful emotionally driven rumination machine.

What skills can we use to take debilitating fears and turn them into positive motivators? 

While I certainly agree that sharing our thoughts and feelings with our children who are suffering isn't always a good choice... .we need to have a support system around us to help us process and hold us accountable for personal development... .like this site.

lbj   

I feel guilty and sad much of the time. When things are going well (which never lasts for long), I can see the positive traits my daughter does possess. Generosity, quick wit and kindness are all in there.  But when she is being oppositional, splitting and saying hateful and vicious things, the anger, resentment and sadness come right to the surface.  I am actively working on validation and not engaging but I often lose control and then feel terribly guilty and sad. There is a calmness that I long for in my family life that is impossible to experience because I never know when the next emotional meltdown will occur.  I love my dd but I find myself backing off more than I would like because I am emotionally exhausted. And I feel guilty about that.  When I need to set limits, I dread the interactions that happen.  I have another child that is so easy, selfless and understanding. I love them both so much but I feel bad that it is so much easier and more enjoyable spending time with him.  I continue to try to use my thinking mind to tell myself that this is this illness but when the emotionl stuff happens, I am so easily upset and angry.  Btw,  thank you everyone for being so honest and informative. It really helps me feel like I am not alone.  *Hi 

Cinderella

You are NOT alone.  Every one of us on this board knows exactly how you feel, and we all continue to struggle daily with the damage inflicted by BPD in a loved one.

I see you are new to BPDF and I do not know how much information you have on BPD.  This site is an excellent source of educational materials on this disorder as well as a rock-solid base of support.  I hope you will take the time to explore them.  Information really is powerful in providing comfort and strength.

We are all so glad you have joined us. Just knowing that others really understand our frustration and pain is so important in dealing with this disorder, because we often become isolated from family and friends. None of us can  do this alone, and we welcome your thoughts, questions and experiences.  This is a place to share. Many people here have years and years of experience in dealing with BPD and the staff is a Godsend.  They keep us on track when our emotions and fears get the best of us.

Please keep posting.  We want to help you in any way we can.

I see myself so much in Cindarella8 - especially with regards to my other "normal" child.  I just want my 19 year old BPD son to leave.  When he is fine he is good company, but we are walking on eggshells much of the time and he had another violent episode last week - the first in 8 months, but my feelings of helplessness are transforming into resentment and worse - which leads to extreme guilt.   We want to help but he refuses to talk to us. I dread the confrontation and object throwing which wil happen if we try to be firm about things. Often we give up whci I know is not good, but I am mentally and emotionally exhausted.     My 16 year old daughter is suffering and as well as beginning to resent her brother is also beginnign to resent us for not dealing with the problem. She said that next time he is violent she will call the police if we don't. so now I feel like I can't do any more for my son and feel like giving up on him and concentrating on protecting my daughter... .what a mix of emotions. and all the while my husband just buries his head in the sand... .So now I resent BPD son even more for wrecking our family... .And feel guilty again... .

Until I was able to overcome my fear based dependence on my illusions of control,

I felt alone. I believed that I am smart enough, strongly courageous enough and self-sufficient enough to solve any problem. Emotions just got in the way. I forcefully and unconciously shoved them deep into my body.

I have suffered many illnesses from childhood. I do have a very strong intellect. Maybe that is a major piece of the necessity for the past 26 years of intensive therapies. Only in the past couple of years has an integration of all I have learned and practiced begun. I have reached out to build a face to face support network. They hold me accountable to feel my feelings. They help me to be safe so I can move out of the fear, regrets, and shame.

This process of my healing took off in 2009 with Dd28's BPD dx and finding bpdfamily. Keep learning and practicing tools even when the tiny little changes are invisible. They work.I am feeling like a whole and worthy woman.

qcr

I was feeling so angry at times when my adult son with BPD would cross my boundaries or impulsively do things that harmed his own well-being and future. Then, I felt guilty about feeling angry.

But I recently realized that my anger was an easier-to-deal-with substitute for the grief and fear that I really felt.

Hi

Having had to deal with my daughter attempting suicide twice in the last two weeks and being admitted twice into hospital and that she has spent the last 5 days being specialed (nurse with her 24/7) I certainly have a lot of thoughts and feelings. I feel completely exhausted and terrified.  I feel like a link between us has been broken and that I can no longer trust what she says.  I feel devasted that I can no longer trust her and that I have to lock money and medications into a press in my bedroom.  When she comes home I know I am going to be terrified to leave her alone in the house.

Do I feel guilty about these thoughts and feelings?  No I don't.  This is just where we find ourselves now. Not feeling guilty does nothing relieve the intensity of these feelings, I have to accept that this is our reality for now and that it's not going to improve anytime soon, and terrified, sad and distrustful is where I am going to be much of the time, but also making a conscious effort to try notice and experience the nice little moments in life that happen all the time no matter how horrendous other parts of your life may be.

It's been a while since I've posted , I have not had the strength lately - apologies for that.

Getting the email from Skippy and reading this topic made me realize that I was 'avoiding' just like my BpdD17 and my DD14 (now with full blown Anxiety Disorder).

'feel guilty' - for sure, which I can handle and even justify on most occasions - it is after all a very natural emotion for us parents.  It's the deep resentment I feel towards DD17 and the BPD she suffers from that I have real trouble getting to grips with.

Most days I start with accepting the reality that is, at least for now, ours. The days are usually filled with a multitude of emotions. In order to get through a day I wear many hats (mother/counselor/negotiator/doctor/banker/cook/cleaner/wife... .to name but a few and in no particular order  :)). The feelings of guilt I get are not so much to do with what I feel or say but more about that I feel I have not been able to do/fix/cope well enough.

Kia kaha - NZMOM 

_{a Māori phrase used by the people of New Zealand meaning stay strong, used as an affirmation}

'Negative emotions like loneliness, envy, and guilt have an important role to play in a happy life; they're big, flashing signs that something needs to change.'

'Food, love, career, and mothers, the four major guilt groups.'

One of the traps we easily fall into is black and white thinking.  Is it true that there are bad times? Yes. Is it true that there are good times?  Yes.  So it is also true that there are both good and not so good traits within each of us. What stops us from remembering the good traits our children have during the times they are displaying their borderline traits?  Is it human nature to give more power to the negative than the positive?  Holding 2 opposing truths in our minds (known as a dialectical dilemma) at the same time takes practice. When we are able to accomplish this we can be more balanced in our own thoughts, emotions, and responses. 


Difficult? Yes.  Impossible? No.

When we take ownership of our own thoughts and emotions we begin to feel empowered (as Mamamia mentioned).  Empowerment leads to making deliberate choices (responding) instead of living as a victim (reacting).

I notice the use of the term "but" many times in your post Cinderella8.  This is a word that signifies a dialectical dilemma. You mention learning about validation.  The "but" word is the greatest invalidator.  Replacing "but" with "and" seems unnatural initially... .and you will get used to it over time. 

As we find ourselves trying to notice the nice moments in life lets not forget to include those moments with our children who suffer with BPD.


Very thought provoking discussion Cinderalla8!  It is helping me to remember, hone, and practice my skills... .

Thanks so much!

lbj

Have you looked into value based boundaries to set for yourself?  Could you help your daughter do the same?

Boundary setting is very empowering and gives us back some sense of being the masters of our own lives.

https://bpdfamily.com/parenting/06.htm


lbj

Yep!  Anger (especially justifiable anger) is less painful than well... .PAIN!

Fear can be paralyzing.  It was for me.  My first step towards moving from anger to fear and past fear to empowerment and peace was through boundary setting and enforcement.  And that was  me... .there may be a different beginning point for others.

What would be your most immediate need to begin to heal?

lbj   

Is it really broken or have walls of self preservation been erected?  I can completely understand why those walls would go up.   


I rarely trusted my daughter to make healthy choices for herself... .she just didn't know the difference between healthy and unhealthy.  After much inpatient and outpatient therapy she knows... .and I hold her accountable for what she knows.  And vice versa I might add. :)


Do you believe eileen11 that you have any choices in your thoughts, beliefs, and feelings?

There are skills taught here on this site to give you back your life if you are willing to work.  We are here to help.

lbj

The opposite of resentment is compassion. Getting a grip on ourselves, understanding the disorder and how BPD behaviors serve our children, and practicing acceptance (Radical Acceptance) can open the door to compassion for our children.  They are hurting, we are hurting.  We all need compassion.


Skills replace feelings of shortcomings, understanding what we are responsible for, and higher (healthier) levels of coping... .which can all lead to a more satisfying and peaceful life for each of us nzmom.

lbj

Wow lbjnltx

Thanks for all those comments, they are really encouraging and helpful.  No I don't think the link is completely broken and it is definitely a wall of protection.  I do believe I have a choice in how I think which affects how I feel.  Just at the moment it is so exhausting trying to tune in to myself to see what is coming up for me and beginning to understand my daughter for the first time in 20 years.   

I am finding this website very helpful, but I think I have an overload of information at the moment so taking it a bit slower now.

What a wonderful topic.

Guilt.  Such a heavy word.  What parent has not felt some level of guilt over a troubled child?

I have embraced the concept that not all guilt is appropriate and in BPD much of what we place upon ourselves is inappropriate guilt, that is we have not intentionally harmed and it is beyond our control.  Often what we label as guilt might be better described as sadness, grief, weakness, regret, etc... .

Although I fight the urge to BE DONE with our DD36 I do not feel guilt.  I feel deep pity for her in her pain. And compassion for her suffering. I feel helpless to keep her safe.  I feel loss for the life she is wasting.  I ache for peace and cohesion in our family.  At times I become overwhelmed and angry!

It is tempting to put up a wall of protection, create a safe haven where the powerful negatives cannot reach, where we are shielded from the grief, resentment and pain.

Whatever my emotions I try to recognize the feeling, tease out the source, and move on if needed.  Being kind to oneself is a gift in the midst of the chaos.

I know that I am doing the best I can... .and I can do a little better.

I need to correct something I said yesterday.  I said that I think I have control over my feelings.  Well that's not right.  Our feelings are our feelings and they shouldn't be denied because to deny them is in effect abandoning yourself.   Maybe with acceptance and kindness to ourselves we may get to see what the driving force is behind our feelings.  What I think we do have control over is how we react to those feelings.

Thank you jbl for starting this conversation!

Eileen, I very much understand where you are coming from. We are both new to coming to terms with the behaviours of our relatives.

Whenever I walk out of a conversation with my daughter that is turning destructive, I feel guilty for abandoning her (I know I am doing the right thing, but nevertheless, she is upset and angry, and I walk away).

I feel guilty to my oldest daughter for not sufficiently supporting her for the longest time, and thinking "this is just puberty". I have never spoken to her about it, and will think of a way to do it without voicing my fears about my youngest.

I feel guilty about the fact that my youngest has decided she wants to live with my parents for a while next year to get to know them a bit better... .and I am not protecting her and them from the potential that this will harm their relationship.

I feel guilty about sometimes thinking about the possibility that I might have to ask my youngest, who has recently turned adult, to leave the house... .

I am just starting to learn about different ways to handle her... .and myself. There is a wealth of information in bpdfamily, but, it has to be taken in in small doses.

E

Somtimes I do feel guilty when my feelings towards my daughter fluctuate.

I feel a lot of frustration and that it would be easier just to cut off from her at times-also anger.

Then my feelings change again and I feel care and love for her.

I think it helps to keep learning about BPD and reminding myself that this is a mental illness. If I think she is just lying and being difficult for no reason it fuels anger. (That sounds like an example of thoughts leading to feelings).

Mindfulness practice also helps me to accept my own feelings without judgement and to let them pass knowing that I don't have to act on them.

I remember from DBT that if guilt is justified we need to repair-if its unjustified we need to let it go. The wisdom is to discern the difference.

|iiii


If we respond... .how we respond. 

What is the difference between reacting and responding?

lbj

Wise words Mama-san

There is a lesson  in DBT that in essence says:

"At any given moment in time we are all doing the best we can and we need to try harder."

During times of high emotional conflict what effect would remembering this phrase have on our own thoughts and feelings?

lbj

This is a boundary you are setting with your daughter.  Boundaries are healthy for self and relationships.  To be fair to others we can state our boundaries in advance so that they know what is happening and why. 

I stated my boundary to my daughter in this way:

"When emotions run high I will walk away from the situation and take some self time to reflect and calm down.  When we are both calm we can come back together and have a discussion to resolve any problems or concerns we each have.  I will remind you of this before I walk away by telling you I am taking some self time now and we can talk again later."

This serves 6 purposes:

1. It protects my values of peace.

2. It helps preserves the relationship.

3. It demonstrates a high level coping skill to my daughter.

4. It may diffuse the situation completely.

5. I don't have to feel I have abandoned my daughter.

6. It teaches that everyone needs boundaries.

How might setting value based boundaries have an effect on the other concerns/guilty feelings you mention? 

lbj

I like "the difference between reacting and responding"-I think reactions are more instant and driven by feelings (often negative feelings). When we respond we feel the feeling but wait and let it subside before we respond.

Reminds me of wise mind-we don't dismiss our feelings-they are there for a reason but we temper our reaction with rational mind-considering if our response will be helpful.

I think this means staying with the unpleasant feeling for a while rather than trying to get rid of it immediately.

I used to feel guilty when I set a limit or didn't try to "fix" things but now I recognize that anger can be useful and tell us that it is time to set a limit.

Its how we do it that is important.

I still have problems being afraid of my daughter and her reactions as well as with anger.

I concur.


Has your daughter been physically abusive towards you in the past?

How did you handle it then?  How would you handle it now?

What triggers her?  What triggers you?

lbj

This is a really valuable subject. It's SO hard to see passed the behaviors. I've felt myself creating distance too.

sometimes I find myself grieving the loss of the daughter I once knew as if she died, then I'll get a glimpse of her again and feel so ashamed that I had so completely given up on the hope of her getting better that I had let her die inside of me.

I also am afraid to enjoy the times when things are peaceful and positive. I don't want to pack up the armor and be vulnerable the next time things get ugly.

I have to take heart in the knowledge that this time a year ago she was in absolute denial, blaming everything and everyone else, expecting to be rescued, self harming, hating herself, hating me, throwing accusations around like confetti. Today she has accepted her diagnosis, is on medication that is helping, taking baby steps in therapy and beginning to see that many of her perceptions, memories, feelings about herself and others have been distorted by the BP/PD.

The more I learn the better I am at not reacting and responding thoughtfully. My new mantra is, "It's not personal, it's the PD it's not me."

It is still a very rocky road, juggling husband and other family who understand even less than I do, a 7yr old G-d who I am essentially raising and is showing various signs of distress because of her mom's behaviors.  I have a harder time staying objective and non-reactive when I see my D manipulate my G-D emotionally or vent her frustration unfairly with her.

So I have my moments of deep resentment and impatience.

We are human, and have emotional limits, I try to cut myself some slack. 90% of  the time I think I'm pretty graceful.

It could be so much worse, it WAS so much worse.

I'm sorry you are all struggling too, but glad to know I'm not alone.

A lot has changed in one year Nana-mom.

If another member asked "how do I get my adult daughter to accept that she needs help and get her to go to therapy?" how would you respond?

lbj

Hello again.

In reply to your question.

It is a long time since my DD has been physically abusive to me.

I used to just accept it or even cover for it.

Now I would walk out or even phone the police.

Thinking back it was after I called the police that it stopped.

It is easier now as she no longer lives with me-but I don't think she would hit me or physically attack me now-she has made a lot of progress.

What I am afraid of is the nasty way she can speak to me and the way she can use contact with my GC-also the havoc she can cause in my relationships with other family members.

I need to work on boundaries and feeling the fear but pausing and responding rather than reacting.

I don't feel as guilty about feeling fear asI do about feeling anger.

Perhaps I should rethink this.

Gosh lbjnltx, you ask very hard questions.  Never really thought about difference between reacting and responding before.  But I think reacting is very personal to us and what is going on for us whereas responding is taking account of where someone else is at

Thanks for responding eileen11

It has been my experience (over and over and over again ) that reactions are emotionally driven and come from how I experience what someone else puts out... .how I am affected by their words, body language, tone, intentions... .and often times comes from a victim mentality.

Responding is deliberate, thought out, goal oriented, and (hopefully) comes from a wise mind mentality.  Responding is a choice and comes from a place of balance and empowerment.

Reacting to positive things/news is usually fine... .like your BPD child tells you they got a promotion... .you react by saying "Awesome!"  All is well.

Reacting to negative things/news is usually not fine... .like your BPD child tells you they got fired from yet another job... .you react by saying "Oh no not again!" your child says "see... .I knew you don't believe in me."

Learning the skills to manage our emotions (triggers) and our thoughts gives us the opportunities daily to respond in place of react. 

How many times have we had to apologize for a reaction? Justify our reactions?

How many times have we had to apologize for our responses?  Further explanation or conversation may be needed... .and not justified.

lbj

I've been giving this a bit more thought with regard to fear.

When my DD triggers my fear button if I react I immediately start to placate her-which only reinforces what she is doing.

Just as with anger I think I need to stay with the fear for a few minutes and think what response would be most helpful.

Also to recognize that I can't control or fix things-if she wants to alienate other family members or withdraw contact with GC I will just have to go with that.

Strange how I feel more guilty if I express anger and yet my fear responses are just as unhelpful.


Boundaries are important.

As you wrote... .fear based reactions placate her. Because these reactions don't challenge her unhealthy behaviors or thinking errors they serve her and you in the moment... .

Guilt externalized (angry reaction) versus guilt internalized (living with the knowledge that our reaction is not holding us or our child accountable and continues to  fuel the unhealthy)

Thoughts?

lbj

I think it is all connected with my idea of what a "nice" person is ie non-confrontational, turns the other cheek-and also a selfish fear of her rages.

I am getting some insight on here and learning about not placating.

Strange though how some unhelpful thoughts and feelings have led me to feel guilty whilst others have led me to think that I was being a "good" person.

Again an example how a dispassionate appraisal of our own behavior is more helpful than an emotionally driven guilt response.

Ah yes lever... .our belief systems mold us and our behaviors.

If I told you that I believe that if someone truly loves and cares about me they will hold me accountable for my thoughts, feelings, reactions, actions, lack of action, etc... .how would you feel?

lbj

Guilty is not a word I would use to describe how I feel about my sometimes thoughts/feelings. I believe my thoughts and feelings are symptoms of my own instincts or exhaustion. So using my best DBT skills - the same ones I am hoping and expecting my daughter to use when she is overwhelmed with her own thoughts and feelings - I accept the feelings and thoughts, and then move on to making productive use of them.

Sometimes that productive use is to step back and do some self care - take a break, distract myself with other activities. Sometimes the productive use is to take action - to call my daughters doctors and let them know what is going on, what might be triggering my reaction and is it something that needs addressing.

There's more than enough to feel guilty about as a parent of a BPD child - mostly for me its the myriad of ways I contributed to creating an invalidating environment even though that was not my intention.  So let's not add to our guilt pile with guilt over thoughts and feelings.

Someone wise once said:  You are not responsible for your thoughts/feelings, just for how long you keep them. Love that.

Forgiving ones self for mistakes made in the past and asking the person we may have harmed by making those mistakes takes the power that guilt holds over us out of the picture.

If I am not responsible for my own thoughts and feelings who is?  Do I have the power to choose what I believe, value, desire, fear, etc... .if so... .then am I not responsible for the thoughts and feelings that are borne from them?

Interesting post BWire!

In answer to jbl's questions as to how boundary setting would help in other situations I am facing guilt:

- "I feel guilty to my oldest daughter for not sufficiently supporting her for the longest time, and thinking "this is just puberty". I have never spoken to her about it, and will think of a way to do it without voicing my fears about my youngest."

Though I can't talk to her about it, I might be able to model a different way of handling my youngest one's outbursts.

- "I feel guilty about the fact that my youngest has decided she wants to live with my parents for a while next year to get to know them a bit better... .and I am not protecting her and them from the potential that this will harm their relationship."

Pff... .this is a tough one... .I don't think I can: I can't organise boundaries FOR other people to set. My parents will not understand, my daughter doesn't see the problem. They will have to experience it themselves. And maybe things will improve and it will actually work out?

- "I feel guilty about sometimes thinking about the possibility that I might have to ask my youngest, who has recently turned adult, to leave the house... ."

Maybe this would be the most extreme form of boundary setting. I hope I will be able to handle our relationship to the point that it will not be needed. But the fear, and the guilt over the thought will remain.

E

lbj-the honest answer is that I would feel fearful and over-faced-but I know you are correct-I need to use the DBT skills to cope with my own emotions.

Let your oldest watch you set boundaries with your youngest and vice versa... .my daughter found lessons easier to learn as a 3rd party.  So yes... that would be modeling a different way of handling outbursts.


It may be very important for you to set boundaries so that you don't end up in an unhealthy triangle... .parents complain to you about daughter... .daughter complains to you about grandparents... .you are in the middle getting it from both sides.  Learn about triangulation and how to move to the center... .



There are many boundaries that can be set to keep the most extreme boundary from having to be enforced.   

Remember... .boundaries are set and enforced to protect ourselves AND our relationships.

lbj

That's it in a nutshell isn't lever.

First we behave as we want our disordered children to behave.  If we want them to be calm and think rationally we must first be calm and think rationally. 

If we want them to use skills to cope we must first use skills to cope.

If we want them to take the initiative to learn skills we must first take the initiative to learn skills.

Be a living example for them to follow!

Accepting that we need to change first may feel unjust... .yet it is for our own good... .our children's good... .our family's good that we do it.

lbj