BPDFamily.com

Hey everyone,

My name's Matt.

I apologize in advance if this is a little terse and hard to read; I'm just doing the best I can to get it all down.  And please try to be a little tactful when responding to me as I'm still in a difficult place and I just am not able to completely give up hope that we'll get back together.

My girlfriend of 2.5 years (we'll call her N) broke up with me in early January.  Since describing the breakup to my psychiatrist and therapist, I've learned that there's a good chance she's BPD (and from my own research, I'm assuming she's a Waif, though I'm not completely certain).  (She's 30 and I'm 32, for future reference.)  The psychiatrist I'm seeing has been dealing with borderlines and everything else for over 30 years, so when she says she didn't have a doubt in her mind I tend to believe her, regardless of the lack of first-hand exposure.

So here's what happened:  In early November of last year she told me that she wanted to take a 2 month break because we're in different places right then.  She said she wanted to move in together and be engaged and she assumed I didn't (which I corrected her on).  She stipulated that we weren't to speak during this break.  She also said the break was to work on our own separate issues, a claim that'd change at least three times during the course of this debacle.  She brought up wanting to know about her abandonment issues and some other things she was having problems with.  This wasn't difficult because we live a little ways apart in separate cities (approximately 30 miles).  She works retail with odd days off and I was working a typical 5-day-a-week job so it'd take some coordination to get together at her mother's house but we did it without too much problem, though we didn't see each other as often as she'd have liked (we spoke about this issue and worked out a compromise of communicating through other methods every day).  

I'll try to keep the meat of the story simple.

I spoke to her a couple of times during the 2 month break, though I wasn't supposed to, to get some clarity.  The first time she told me I'd had chances to accomplish the things I was supposed to intuit she wanted done before the end of the year, and she was super upset.  I asked her if she was going to give me another chance and she said, "yes, don't you trust me?" in a hurt tone, as though I was accusing her of not being trustworthy.  The second time I spoke to her through email.  I sent one that was as heart-felt and apologetic and straight honest as I could be (and it was honest), telling her that I had been planning the things she wanted but I wasn't aware of the timeline.  She appreciated the email, saying it obviously came from the heart, but she still needed time to herself (notice it's switched from being an "us" thing to a "her" thing).  She reiterated that we'd discuss things in the new year.  I was satiated with that for about 4 days.  I'd become obsessed with the idea of "a chance."  Is that continuing dating to see if I've accomplished what I was supposed to?  Is that a written questionnaire on Scan-tron that I'd need to complete with some arbitrary score to pass?  I had no idea, but I was in so much pain and so confused I had to have yet more clarity.  The next email focused on this.  She'd said that during the relationship, she was always focusing on my feelings, so I told her in the email that I didn't want her worrying about me, that I could take care of myself; but, I did need a little bit of help understanding what was to come.  I asked if I was going to be getting a real chance to be together.  She responded saying that of course I was, she thought she'd made it very clear that I was (if that were true, I wouldn't have been leaving work early to cry in my car).  So with that news, I was elated.  It was the first time during the 2 month break I actually felt happy.  

During this period I continued to speak to her mother.  I'd let her mother know that I'd found an apartment, and she insisted on letting N know because of how large an expenditure it would be.  N and I spoke a couple of times, once on the phone and once through texting.  Both the phone conversation and texting session gave the same idea: she wanted to make sure I was getting the apartment for me, because she wasn't sure we'd be together.  I was caught of guard with this line of logic during the phone call, but I was ready for the text.  She said something along the lines of, "Mom tells me you're still thinking of signing the lease, do you want to talk about it?"  I replied that it didn't matter, she didn't want to live with me so it didn't have anything to do with her.  I wanted her to, but she didn't want to.  She sent what I can only assume was an upset text (it's hard to tell), telling me it wasn't that, it's that she wanted to be able to help me choose.  But as the conversation continued, she again assumed the "get it if it's for you" posture.  Her tone rapidly switched between apparent interest and complete disregard.  She started getting back to the way she'd been pre-2 month, using similar verbiage and lamenting the fact that we weren't understanding each other (a problem she'd bring up frequently, but would never help me solve).  But then it was if she caught herself, and she told me we should really wait until January to discuss any specifics.  I sent her a text the next day saying I didn't sign the lease, and I'd wait to look again until she could join me.  She thought that was a good idea.

So New Year's Eve, she texts me asking me how I'm doing.  After some brief exchanges she tells me she wants to meet at a friend of her mother's, for whom she frequently housesits, so that we could have some privacy for our big talk.  She wanted to meet on the 7th of January.  I thought to myself, I'd just been through the most painful, hellish 2 months of my entire life, and she again wants me to wait an arbitrary amount of time.  It was her day off, so I understand that logic, but I wasn't going to go along with it this time.  I told her that I'd prefer a telephone conversation (I really wasn't interested in seeing her at this time).  She wanted it to be face-to-face so nothing would be misconstrued (a word she started using in this period immediately after I started using it, which was a little odd).  I asked for a compromise, suggesting that we try speaking on the phone and if she feels the conversation isn't clear, we'll stop and I'll just wait until the 7th.  

We ended up having to wait until the 5th because of various illnesses I think she was manufacturing, but she called and we discussed.  I laid down everything I'd been doing during the break.  The apartment (which didn't matter), having my medication adjusted, seeing a therapist to work on some issues she'd said had bothered in the past, everything.  She tells me she enjoyed the time to herself during the 2 month break.  (A note: I should mention that between New Year's and this conversation I'd asked her if she'd found a good therapist to deal with the problems she said she wanted to address, and she laughed embarrassingly and said she didn't have time.  Her mother told me that she wasn't really doing much during that time.)

So just as I'd predicted, the next day we broke up.  She said she stilll loves me, but she's not ready for a relationship with anyone.  I get a letter that makes me feel horrible, telling me when we didn't move in and get engaged before the end of the year, she slowly lost interest in the relationship.  She said we're now not on the same page because I want a relationship and she doesn't.  (As a reminder, she'd just said a couple of months earlier we weren't on the same page because she wanted to move the relationship forward (which I did, too) and I didn't.  So that's weird.  

A few days later I felt a bit bad because according to some of those last texts, she thought I hated her.  I told her I didn't hate her, I love her.  She said I love you, but I don't want a relationship.  I want to be alone.  

I spoke to her briefly on the phone, and she said we may get back together, nothing's for sure.  I don't know if she's borderline or not, but I know I'm an idiot and I have hope because of that nonsense.  

I haven't spoken to her for a month and she hasn't tried to contact me.  I don't know what to do.  I'm completely obsessed with this, and I don't know what to do.  I'm heavily OCD, so when people tell me to "let go" or "move on," it doesn't really register quite right.  This is a problem my mind's stuck on, and I keep trying to work it out.  I feel I made all of the mistakes, and if we'd just had better communication we wouldn't have had a problem.  I don't know if she's completely written me off as someone she'd want to try dating again, or what.  I don't know if I should try asking, or when.  This wouldn't hurt as much if I knew the majority of the reason for her wanting to separate was that she didn't want a relationship with anyone, but I'm terrified to ask (and online articles terrify me more, saying this is just a nice thing girls say).  I'm terrified because I responded to the 2 month break like a break up, the break up like a break up, and I don't want to do it a third time, when I'm just starting to feel okay.  But I continue to need information, some idea of what's going on.  I hesitate to write these things because no matter what there's always someone on a board like this who thinks he's being helpful that'll tell me there's no chance in hell and to give up.  

I could use some sensitive help, gang (that's not meant to be accusatory, I've read quite a few threads on this board and you seem really welcoming here).  If anything doesn't make sense please let me know.


Some more things that I've realized since my psychiatrist mentioned she could be BPD:

-she's obsessed with Disney and Disneyland is her favorite place in the whole entire world

-she actually pouts when she pouts, protruding her lower lip (she didn't know she was doing it)

-unexplained body pains (she went to all kinds of doctors and couldn't find anything wrong)

-extremely manipulative

-there's more I'm not thinking of

Hey man,  you have really been through it and I'm sorry to hear it.

Hard to say if she's BPD for sure but the shoe seems to fit,  at the least we can agree she is extremely toxic.  This kind of behavior is unacceptable and you really need to come to terms with that.

Are you still wanting her back?

In these sort of cases my advice is "move on but leave the door open a Crack"

What I mean is take this time to work on yourself,  think about what you really want,  reflect on the experience.  But you may hear from her again and if you do the aim is to be in a much better,  stronger place and you can decide what to do.

not to give false hope but I went through the traditional BPD breakup and I thought I'd never recover,  I did a lot of self work and really really grew from it all.

7 months later my ex wants me back,  to the tune of almost begging and grovelling for forgivness. and I'm in a position where I'm not even sure if I want her or if I'm selling myself short.  A dramatic turnaround considering she used to own my balls pretty much.

Go look at Robert wong self redirection series on youtube,  I found his work helpful.

Good luck

Hey man, thanks for the helpful words.

As to whether I want her back, that's really tough to answer.  I say and feel I do now because I'm dealing with the breakup still, but I have serious doubts.  I know if we worked on communication we'd have a much better shot.  But family and my psychiatrist say I should walk away and not look back; she's damaged goods and she'll only hurt me again. 

Mostly, I just want to find out about whether she hates me / has painted me black, or if she's honestly not interested in a relationship and given some some she would consider me for a partner.  The thing I'm struggling with is just feeling she's written me off forever.  And this is doubly tough for me because, not knowing for sure whether she's BPD or not, I try to seek advice on forums for traditional relationships and those just make me feel as though she's completely over me and there's no hope. 

I suppose right now I'm mostly feeling tremendous guilt and shame, and that I'm the sole ruiner of the relationship.  I always say, "If I'd just gotten that apartment a bit earlier," things would be different.  But family and my therapist ask why it all fell on me, and why all blame for things not being done in the relationship fell on me, which I suppose is somewhat true.  Since she was in the city we wanted to find an apartment in, it stands to reason she could do some looking... but her accusing me of being too picky made it all my responsibility again.

She mentioned in her letter that every time we went on a trip she'd be expecting me to propose and she was too embarrassed to admit it, and we hadn't even had a formal marriage discussion.  She did make little comments that people would later tell me were really awful and manipulative.  I can't think of the exact conversation we'd be having, but she'd turn to me and in a really odd, threatening voice, say, "maybe my next boyfriend will."  She couldn't just plainly tell me what she was thinking or have an actual conversation.  Maybe the marriage discussion is traditionally the man's duty and I completely screwed up, I don't know... that's sure what it feels like.  Everyone tries to comfort me and say that it takes two to tango and it's no one's fault, but I just can't shake the feeling.

I feel she really, really did me wrong, yet I have feelings.  It's a tough position to be in.  I'd like to let some time pass and see what happens, but in order to do that I really feel I need some information about whether I'm completely written off or what.  I'm not recovered enough to take a severe "no" answer, so I've been trying to think of a way to pose the question that would give me some relief/satisfaction if it's positive, and won't send me into another layer of hell if it's negative.  This is something I really feel I need to do, and I'd appreciate any suggestions on when and how this could be done.

Pardon the bump, I need as much help as I can get.

Hi Riddler --

It's never easy when someone we care about tells us they aren't on the same page with us. It's normal to want to understand all of the reasons why -- I mean, if we know the reasons, we can fix everything, right? And get what we both really want?

But the thing you learn in life is that when it comes to emotional stuff, that nice, neat logic just kind of stops applying. People fall in love, people fall out of love, people get back together, people break up hundreds of times -- none of it makes much sense.

In the end, you have to decide for yourself what kind of life you want, and make decisions that support you having that life -- because, trust me, it's out there, and you can have it. But you are going to have to make the right decisions to have it. And only you can make them.

What if the best advice you could get is coming from your T and family, both of whom are thinking only about what's best for you? What if your ex doesn't want to be in the r-ship anymore, regardless of her reasons?

I wish you the best. I will say, though -- it's not normal, healthy or appropriate for one member of a couple to start expecting a proposal when the subject has never been brought up before. I've been through that. Might have been the way things happened back in 1920, but that's not how people make those decisions today. Don't take that on yourself -- you didn't do anything wrong. Hang in there, Riddler. The best is still yet to come for you.

Thanks eyvindr, I appreciate it.

It's true, we'd spoken of marriage, but I was never informed of the time table.  And she said she didn't want to be in a relationship with anyone, she wanted to be alone; I guess there's no way to tell if that's true at the moment, but I feel awful at the prospect that she's just written me off as someone she'd want to give a chance to when she does want to be in a relationship.

I feel ya, man. I'd been dating my ex for just over 6 months in our first round together -- and we'd fallen madly in love, but we were still very much getting to know each other.

Or so I thought. Apparently, she was already planning the rest of our lives together. That first Christmas, after spending our first extended period of days together -- it was terrific, really -- the day she went back to her house, I get a phone call, and she informs me how hurt and disappointed she was that she didn't get an engagement ring.

I really should have gotten out right then. But I didn't. Her behaviors got increasingly worse -- as did my capacity to be patient with her. She never did get that god-forsaken ring. Live and learn.

Hi, Riddler, and welcome! I'm sorry; you've really been through it, and I know you're hurting and confused.

I especially hate to hear that you're heaping guilt and shame on yourself. Try to go easy on yourself, don't take all of the burden of the relationship on your own shoulders. You tried, you loved, you cared... .you did not ruin anything by doing these things. If your ex was BPD (and no one here, of course, can diagnose her), then nothing you could have done would have changed the eventual outcome.

The abrupt end of these relationships leaves us with so many unanswered questions. We struggle for closure. Our exes, unfortunately, can't give us this closure - we have to find it for ourselves.


^ This is absolute truth.


I think these are two very important questions to examine.

As eyvindr said, only you can make the decisions about what is best for your life. Self-examination is the way to get there. :)


Why is this important to you?

Hang in there, and take care of yourself. 

I've never seen such a happy nihilist, thanks for the welcome, and the helpful advice.

It's important to me because I'd just like to think we have a chance in the future.  I keep in occasional touch with her mom and she says N doesn't want to be in a relationship and it's unclear when she will be.  From what I know, I was her first real relationship so if she is borderline, I suppose there's a chance she's incredibly confused at the moment. 

An example of the kinds of things that are freaking me out: her mom told me she's mostly working and hanging out with friends, but I look online for some hint of an idea of whether she's moved on or over me or what have you, and in a lame "top 19 reasons" list they mention if she's going out with friends she's moved on. 

Everyone keeps telling me no one knows what's going on or what'll happen.  But it'd just be nice to know I haven't done something so heinous as to warrant being excluded from consideration.

I also feel regret that I should have known we needed to be engaged by 2.5 years, but I wasn't thinking about until the next year.  Everything continues to feel like my fault and I don't know how to shake that.

Hi Riddler,

Man, I can tell you're hurting. I feel for you. We've all been there.

That said -- with all due respect -- it sounds like you're obsessing over the break-up. It's really pretty normal -- especially when it's a sudden break, and you're still feeling blindsided. Forgive me if my comments below sound a bit terse, but here's what I'm hearing in your posts --


It's completely understandable that you feel this way, Riddler. You've lost an r-ship with someone you really liked. Not knowing why leads you to keep ruminating about what you could have done to have made it work.


Why do you do this? Hate to put it so bluntly, but you're only prolonging your pain. I did this once with a past fiancee -- we'd been together for 5 years, and I'd gotten to know her family very well. It took her father telling finally "you need to let this go -- I don't agree with her, but it is what it is" for me to realize that I was just being a sentimental fool to keep entertaining hopes that she's come to her senses. Frankly, everyone has a right to leave an r-ship if they aren't happy in it -- doesn't matter whether or not it makes sense.

Her mother sounds very kind. Maybe she's just trying to help you move on, the way my ex's father did for me.


If you were her first real r-ship, it may help to explain some of her behaviors -- which are basically just pretty immature. No one needs that. Do you want to be involved with a partner? A woman who is your equal, emotionally and intellectually? Or do you want to be with a child? I know that may sound harsh, but, if she has BPD, her emotional development was arrested at some point -- maybe when she was 3, or maybe 6 or maybe 13 -- but you can bet she's not at the same level as her biological age.


You need to focus on yourself, Riddler, and what will make you happy, in your life, without anyone else. You won't be alone forever, and who knows? -- maybe your ex will wake up, get a clue, work on herself, and try to come back some day. (Fopr your sake, I hope she doesn't, and you can move on to someone better for you.) If you work on yourself and stop worrying about her, you'll be in a much better position to determine if a relationship with her -- or anyone else -- is right for you. If you keep trying to find your happiness outside of yourself, you run the risk of making the same mistakes again.

And -- believe me -- the pain we feel when things don't work out is no less than it was the last time. Is it really worth it?


In all honesty, based on what you've shared, including her email to you, I really don't think you did anything to cause this r-ship to end. Maybe she just wanted out. If that's the case, I don't know why she went to the trouble to try to make it about you missing some unspoken marriage proposal deadline -- except that, if she has BPD, that would be a way to make it not about her wanting out, but about you doing something wrong to justify her choice. On the other hand, if she really does mean what she wrote -- she's extremely out of touch with reality, and still seems to be living under the impression that romantic partners can read each others minds -- something normal-thinking adults realize is silly.

Maybe this will help you. Ask yourself, if you had proposed, would she have accepted? Of course, you have no way of knowing. If she had accepted, the what? Would you have moved in together? Would the engagement have lasted until the wedding date? Would the marriage be based on a decision that was made mutually, between two people, who know each other well, who share fundamental core values, whose expectations for their respective and mutual futures are in synch?

The fact is, the r-ship you had ended before you even had a chance to explore those things. What makes you think the outcome would have been any different? You get the person you're with, when you get engaged or married. In my own life, I made the mistake of thinking that once I conceded to my gf's demands to move the r-ship forward -- move in together, get engaged, get married -- that all of her unhealthy and dysfunctional behaviors would end because, of course, she'd grow up -- ha! None of it happened! My ex wife was the same crazy party girl when I divorced her as she was when I met her. The only difference was that, by not heeding the   's and thinking of myself as much as I thought of her, I wound up divorced, broke, a single dad -- all things that weren't in my plans, you know? And no way out of them -- at that point, it was reality, and I just had to make the best of the situation and live through it. Which I did, and I'm fine. But, sheesh -- if I knew then what I know now... .

Spare yourself. Move on. Let her go. You'll be fine.

So -- what do you want to do with your life? What are your dreams? Let's get working on the good stuff.

I appreciate the incredibly thoughtful reply, thank you.

Oh, I can guarantee I'm obsessing, to be sure.  I've been told a few times a breakup is rough enough without having a heavy case of OCD piled on top.

I'm curious though: she hasn't reached out to me in the month since the break up... does that mean she's completely over me and I haven't a chance at future reconciliation, or what?  I hear some members on the board (like infern0, for example), mentioning an ex coming back quite a few months after the break up, and others mentioning years.  Is there any rhyme or reason to this?  Is there no communication that can happen on my end or is it just depending on them?

I really wish I wasn't oscillating so rapidly between her being BPD and not... it'd be nice to have a mental story to stick with, for my own sanity.

Hi Riddler

I can tell you are really hurting. I will tell you and i don't mean to be crass but if she told you that she is not ready to be in a relationship you have to respect that. You do not want to be in a relationship that is not reciprocal. Don't try to find an angle (mental, personality disorder etc.) The best advise i can give you is this. If you really want her back you should find a way to make yourself attractive to her again. There really isn’t anything you can say to your ex BPD (if she is) that will make her want you back. You need to instead focus on your actions that will make you attractive in the eyes of your ex.

This doesn’t mean you spend all your time thinking about how to be attractive to your ex. You need to instead focus on what you want to do with your life and pursue that in an attractive way.

Remember that your ex had feelings for you in the past. It just didn’t work out due to some bad behavior during the course of the relationship. Some of this is out of your power. But you can learn the skills you need to be better so all of your future relationships work out.

Sheed

"Pursue that in an attractive way"... what does that mean?

And I'm not trying to find an angle, I'm trying to find an explanation for her kooky behavior, which I think is a worthwhile endeavor because it removes the feeling of guilt and blame to a degree if I can see that there were other factors at play besides my being a failure.

"pursue that in an attractive way" simply put is that you should focus your efforts on something that you enjoy doing. By doing this it gives you your confidence and your self worth back.  You don't want to be around someone who is constantly a "debbie downer" or a "buzz kill" would you?

Trying to find an explanation is going to be a bottomless pit and you don't wanna be going on a downward spiral. Trust me on this. I have been there. Like you, i thought that it removes the feeling of guilt and shame to a degree but the fact of the matter is if you keep on thinking that you are the reason why it didn't work out. Like you, I still don't know if my EX has BPD because she has not been diagnosed. Take solace in the fact that you are doing the best that you can to be with her but it's not working out right now... Which brings me to another factor, TIME. Time can be you greatest ally or your worst enemy. It just depends on how you use it. Use it wisely, like working on stuff that you put on hold when you get into the relationship with her. When you finish it it will make you feel better. Also, do not forget to reach out to your friends and have a great time with them. My EX tried to isolate me from my friends and almost succeeded but when she broke up with me i reached out to them and they helped me smile and vent. Surround yourself with loved ones dude! My whole experience left me with the conclusion that your true friends will never leave your side and will always be there in time of need.

PEACE! 

Sheed is right on.

As the saying goes, "If you love somebody, let them go."


Exactly, Riddler. So, pick a story -- and pick the one that works for you, and by "works" I mean the one that honors the person that you are, and the life you want to live. And go with it. It's your life. You get to pick the story.

I have to say, I found odd comfort in both possibilities.  If she's not disordered, maybe after a bit of time we could have a discussion about our relationship and a possible reconciliation.  If she's borderline, it seems like any convincing from my end is much less likely.  And then, I get sage advice from eyvindr and others telling me I really don't want her back, either way.  It's about the most confused I can ever recall being in my entire life, but I appreciate everyone trying to help.

And apologies for the double post, but if there's a possibility of salvaging a relationship, isn't there a certain number of days after the break up you have until there isn't much chance anymore, or are all of those "Get Her Back" advice sites useless?  And I suppose it becomes doubly unpredictable with a pwBPD.

I saw one of those 'get her back' sites. Consider that all if any of that stuff works, it works for people that do not have a personality disorder. You need to be good to you and go easy on yourself: I noticed that you had considered that if you did such and such then it may not have had the outcome that you have experienced. If she is pwBPD, there is nothing that you could have said or done that would have made any kind of impact upon your relationship with her and ultimate breakup.

If your intent is to get her back, your best bet is no contact (this includes email., text and fb). Because of the push/pull dynamic that typifies their behavior, remaining in contact and giving her a fertile path for return will push her further away.

If you intent is to leave her, you best bet is also no contact. It ain't easy to do. We have all been there and in order to facilitate this you need to fill your every waking hour with things that keep you mind off of her; exercise, friends, travel, reading, whatever - look after you. Spoil yourself. Spend some money. Take a trip. Go on a date. Just GO! IT will test your strength, but it WILL go away. 

Thanks JRT, that's very helpful.  I've been trying to follow that advice and it's getting easier, but it's a slow road.

I keep coming back to the fact that I should have tried harder to get an apartment, but I was legitimately so stressed by a work contract that it wasn't in my mind.  And not to place blame, but she'd had it in her mind that apartment hunting was my responsibility so she stopped helping.

I just feel so much regret.

Stop beating yourself up man. A strong relationship could have withstood that like it was a pebble in the road. Remember and it is TRUE: if she is a BPD NOTHING that you could have said or done could have prevented this... .nothing, apartment or not.

It will take time... .you will have ups and downs... .read as much as you can about this - knowing all I can about it and seeing how her behaviors might have been motivated by this dynamic or the other seemed to help.  Write! Write here, write on paper (just don't write to her!), it seems to have a therapeutic effect. Come to these boards; there are people here that have been through this and know exactly how you are feeling. Tell them your challenges... .help others if you can. Its all part of the process.

Thanks man, I appreciate it.

These thoughts have been really helpful, everyone.  If there's anything else that's apparent from my situation or I can clarify something to get more info, please let me know.  I've found that in these types of situations I find comfort in being informed.

Its normal to think this way... .keep posting here with whatever you feel that you need to resolve.

Thank you. :)

I do have a horrifying update:

I just got a couple of texts from her mom that N has seen a few of the texts we've been exchanging (I don't know if she showed her purposefully or it was an accident).  I now feel all no contact hope is lost and any chance of her wanting me back is completely gone.  I'm in a pretty desperate place and I'd been doing just about okay.  This isn't a good year so far.

Hang tough there man... .keep reading these threads... .ask for help... .see a T... .be good to yourself!

Yeah, I'm seeing a T.  Do you think I ruined things?

Hello Riddler,I know your story,and the stories of many,many others here,trying to make sense of all the nonsense and sick b... .s... t,the blameshifting and the accusations our BPD-partners laid on us. Everybody is searching for answers and solutions,wondering "... .if I only had done this,or that,then maybe everything would be fine... ." which is as much nonsense and b... .s... .t as the behaviour of your ex-BPD-partners,because in the long run no matter what you do or don´t do,or even if you do exactly what they "wish",they gonna turn it around on you and blame you for whatever made up, sick reason.

So here is my LAST SENTENCE on these boards,because it´s time for me to move on,after 2 years here:

TAKE THE RED PILL.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR EVERYTHING!

Hey almostmarried,

I'm glad things are going so well for you, man.  I'm not quite there yet but it sure sounds nice.

I'm seriously concerned about her mom having read the texts... apparently she reacted by saying something along the lines of, "he could just talk to me."  I don't know, I'm so tired of being obsessed over this stuff, but the easiest part of potentially getting her back, the not contacting her part... I think I even managed to screw that up.

Riddler --

You have to stop ruminating on this crap. No matter what you do or say or don't do or don't say, your ex is always going to have a "comebacK" that will leave you feeling like you're responsible for the whole thing, including the failure. Who cares who read what? -- everything you've said has been honest, right? If the truth hurts, so be it.

I think you want a relationship where you can live in the open light of day, and not subjugate your needs and feelings to a partner who will always put their needs and feelings ahead of everyone else's. It doesn't make her a bad person -- it makes her a bad partner.

Something hit me last night, and it was one of those realizations that just rang out, loud and clear as a bell. I actually thought of you when it hit me -- and everyone else here who struggles with the whole issue of maybe this, maybe that -- maybe if we'd've just been able to have had the exact right response to some specific situation, that all of these issues would just go away.

So, listen -- and see what you think. This is what the universe told me:

We feel like we have to do something, because we know that our partners are struggling with an illness that interferes with their ability to regulate their emotions in a way that would support a steady, peaceful ongoing romantic relationship. So, we don't want to judge them, or blame them, or hold them responsible for their behaviors -- because it's not their fault, due to the illness. It's BPD's fault, not the person's. Which is all great -- it speaks well of us for being compassionate, loving partners. But it keeps us stuck, and thinking that, if we can only learn how to get around the illness, to the real person who we love, then we can fix everything. If we can take them by the hand, and help navigate them through the fog, or at least recognize that it's just fog around us, and nothing real, then we can deal with this.

The problem is that it doesn't change a damned thing. The illness doesn't go away, and it won't go away, or even really improve, probably, without a full-on commitment to long-term therapy and hard, psychic WORK on our partners' parts. And very few of them seem willing to do this. There will be FOG every day -- just some days it will be worse than others.

I think we have a form of survivor guilt. And we need to get over it. This isn't our fault. We didn't cause it, we can't fix it, and we aren't obligated to stick around for roller coaster ride. I don't know about you, but I like sunshine.

you ruined NOTHING... .NONE of this is your fault! You really need to embrace this... .you did nothing to sabotage your relationship, SHE did. And she has done it before and will do it again; with or without you. It is HIGHLY unlikely that she will improve, at least not enough to have a healthy relationship and I am sorry to tell you this. It is a bitter pill to swallow but all of here, including you, have all had the unfortunate experience of stepping on emotional landmines; none of us knew that they were there as they were hidden well but we stepped on them and our souls were ripped apart as a result. Believe me, I wish that I had never met mine at this point. We had many good times but they are more than offset by the heartache and suffering that she has caused.

thank you...

thank you for this... .I needed this so much, you have no idea.

Good luck, Riddler... .I just joined this page yesterday and the relief I feel that I'm not alone is mindblowing...

thank you everyone who has words of encouragement, they are needed.

eyvindr,

I appreciate your posts so much... .thank you

Welcome, jkwest.

Yes -- it's all mind-blowing. Mind-blowing that anyone goes through this. Mind-blowing that others are going through the same thing. Mind-blowing that there are SO many of us.

Glad you found us. Hope it helps. Hang in there.

To the OP:

  Even if you get her back, how long will it be before she pulls this again?  She sees your weakness and is acting upon it.  You will be a safety net and will be used when she needs something from you.  You cannot trust in her, you have no security with her and with someone with OCD you are mixing fire with gasoline.  You have to realize that there are MANY other women out there, many that have great personalities and good mental health.  Many that are compassionate, loving and will be happy to join you in life. 

  She is feeding off your insecurities and honestly there is no hope with this woman who is just manipulating you.  BPDs do not care if they are hurting someone.

  What you have to do is stop letting this effect your own-self worth.  When you put this on her shoulders you are not only going to disappoint yourself but you are putting more stress on her shoulders.  BPDs cannot deal with stress (let alone many other things... )

  So how do you do this?  You set short term goals FOR YOURSELF.  You accomplish them.  Every time you start thinking about her, you force yourself to think and do something else.  You also have to STOP romanticizing the past.  It's easy to look back on all the 'good times' while forgetting all the hurt a BPD can put you through.  You get respect by respecting yourself and you are not doing that.

  I know how you feel, been there myself and the things I told you is what worked for me.  Don't let it go to the point I did when my ex-fiancée cheated and left.  I became suicidal.  It was truly the worst year of my life.  Place the hope you have left into yourself, not her.

How did she see my weakness, I don't understand? 

And eyvindr: Thank you again, that was extraordinarily thoughtful and poignant.  A couple weeks ago her mother spoke to her about what had happened and apparently she "checked out."  That's something regular "nons" use so her using that makes me feel as though she's just a regular girl and I ruined all chance of anything.  Maybe she just said that to have something to say, or maybe that's how it actually felt in her mind.  I don't know, but it doesn't sound like something a pwBPD would say but I guess I'm not the person to judge that.  This is a precarious position to be in, though I appreciate everyone's help, because I keep thinking every little detail I remember and provide to the board will finally force us to arrive at the conclusion that she's totally fine and I'm just a horrible, negligent boyfriend.

I feel I didn't see her enough and I took her for granted... these thoughts are just ruining me.  Whether she's pwBPD or not, I could have tried harder but I honestly thought after the discussions we'd had she was okay with things, I didn't know she was planning a silent exit.

I don't mean to frustrate anyone; I'm very obsessive and I fixate on the smallest of things if they don't make complete sense to me.

  I've kinda skimmed over your story... .and I really see that you are hurting. 

I think your topic title is really interesting, so I'm going to respond to the two questions in there... .

"So completely confused as to what I should be doing or feeling"

Q1: What should you be feeling?

A1: Feelings aren't right or wrong. They just ARE. The best answer is that you should be feeling exactly what you are feeling right now. It sometimes helps to realize that the feeling will pass, and another feeling will come up. This always happens. The feeling may return again, perhaps somewhat different, perhaps exactly the same.

Q2: What should you be doing?

That is a much harder question, and I'm going to turn it onto its ear for you.

What you WANT to do and what you CHOOSE to do will be more helpful for you than what you 'should' do.

Your feelings tell you a lot here--they tell you what is important to you. Likely they are telling you about things that are importantly WRONG, as you have a lot of uncomfortable and unpleasant feelings.

Moving from this to what you want to accomplish, and thinking about what you can do to accomplish this both works better and feels better.

It is soo easy to get stuck in reacting to your feelings and just doing things. It is much harder to pause and decide what actions or even inactions will help me accomplish my goals. (Ask me how I know! lol )

Totally agree here.  It is likely uncomfortable thinking about what you WANT to do.  It know it is/was for me.  You spend some much time catering to the feelings and wants of the BP that you kind of lose yourself.  In my case I even got to the point where I thought I was a saint because I literally had so few wants or needs.  The truth is I was co-dependent and I'm enjoying the process of rediscovering myself.  Go find yourself again and don't feel bad about it. 

Riddler --

Good points from the Greycat and BestVersion.


Along similar lines, it helps to remember that, while feelings are real, as GK notes -- they aren't facts. As we know, a big part of the BPD experience is their inability to grasp this: to someone suffering from BPD, feelings are facts. Often times, what they feel is their entire reality. Even kind of makes sense in a twisted way that, because of that, they behave the ways they do -- it helps explain why they seem to have no clue as to how their words and actions affect others in their lives. Because, in their world, they are behaving exactly the same way we think we're behaving, which is to make choices based on what they feel is reality and -- again -- in their case, reality is whatever they feel. They respond to their feelings as if their interpretation of their origin is accurate. It's a very complex illness.

Learning this has helped me to understand why I so often -- and so easily -- slipped into the same dilemmas that you describe. I've said it before -- we want to believe that the person we love is telling us the truth. In someone with BPD, their feelings are the truth -- so, while it's often a wildly inaccurate "truth," it is what they share with us, and what we find ourselves responding to. Make any sense? Does this help, or confuse you more?

eyvindr, as well as everyone else contributing,

Your compassion and wisdom are truly appreciated, I can't thank you enough.  But the above I self-quoted is what's bothering me the most.  I know no one hear can diagnose, but it'd be nice to know this all sounds familiar and there's a likelihood we can agree on. 

Riddler, I know you're hurting.   I think a lot of your suffering right now is coming from some distorted thinking.

It sounds like you believe that, if your exgf doesn't have BPD (or something similar), then the only other possible reason the relationship didn't work is because you were a horrible, negligent boyfriend.

But this is just not realistic thinking. You're creating stress for yourself by putting the entire burden of the relationship on your shoulders.

There are many reasons why relationships don't work out. Look at some of the possibilities--

1. She could have a full-blown personality disorder that makes an intimate r/s very, very difficult.

2. She could have BPD traits that also make an intimate r/s very difficult.

3. She could have no personality disorder but other issues that make an intimate r/s difficult.

4. She could have no personality disorder but other issues, and while her ability to have an intimate r/s may or may not be impacted, she might not feel like she is compatible with you, even though you were a good boyfriend.

5. She could have no personality disorder, be completely well-adjusted and healthy, but not feel like she is compatible with you, even though you were a good boyfriend.

Now, it doesn't sound like she was completely well-adjusted and healthy... .but other than that, no one here can really say (as you know). But even if she were, the relationship ending would not mean that you were a bad boyfriend.

It seems like you have a tendency to be hard on yourself - which is not uncommon for members around here  - and I just want to encourage you to be gentler with yourself.  

That makes sense, thank you.

Let's assume I've gotten to a place where I can actually make an intelligent decision as to whether or not I want to be with her... can she and I still have a chance?  One thing my mind does not process well and triggers crazy obsessiveness is lack of certainty.  I know in these kinds of situations nothing is for certain, but I do think there are likelihoods.

And a follow up question: did her finding out about my speaking to her mother screw up NC and my chances of anything?   

All of this is so scary.  :'(

 It is scary.

You love her and care about her and want to get back together with her.

You were working on that with her mother.

If that 'screws up' your chances with her... .sadly, they were not much chances of something you would find healthy and fulfilling with her.

The relationship you truly want with her will probably require both you and her to change and grow. Do your part. Give her room to do hers. And accept that she may not.

 GK

But how do I know?  It'd be helpful to know that she actually has feelings for me right now.  I'd actually been planning on getting her mom to ask her (before she knew we were talking) whether or not she'd still consider me for a partner or if all chances of that are shot.  I don't know if that's a good idea, but I feel I need to get some kind of information.  I was thinking about asking if she thought the relationship could be salvaged in the future but when I was speaking to her mom all she would say to her (and this was before she knew we were speaking), was that she just wants to be alone right now, and that we may get together but it's not for sure.  A family member, who'd been getting a little tired of hearing about this (understandably), suggested I ask her mom to ask her flat out if she'd consider me in the future, and I just couldn't take the finality of the potential answer. 

I don't know anymore... I don't know if it's BPD, the relationship wasn't good enough and she didn't care to tell me, or what.  The point I brought up about which explanation to believe in an earlier post was not simply to have something to tell myself to feel better... it's about having as close to the truth as I can in order to feel better.  The way my mind works, I see plenty of evidence of BPD, but I also have my own doubts, and that prevents me from having a satisfying explanation of what happened in my head. 

I don't know, guys... I feel I need to know more information, but I don't want to get more hurt than I already am.  Is there a way anyone can see to phrase a question to where I can get a sense of her leanings for the future while staying vague enough that I don't get tremendously hurt by the answer?

This is what I keep coming to.  No matter how I try to move on or do anything, my tremendous obsession trumps everything and I just can't get around it.  I'm taking updated meds and I'm seeing a therapist, and even she acknowledges the fact that I seem to need something.  That's what I've read about these BPD relationships... there's no closure.  But then again, is this one of those relationships?  I have no way of knowing.

I write this and I'm scared just as much as I'm relieved to have it on the boards.  As much as you might think I need "tough love" I can assure you, I don't.

I'll tell you what I'm finding for myself, and what I've seen on these boards:

First and foremost, if her actions say one thing and her words say another, believe her actions.

If I remember right, all her actions are to go away from you. (I could have missed something though) So when her words pull you back, don't give them as much weight.

Second... .when it comes to a pwBPD ending a relationship with a non... .I've seen it a lot of times on these boards, and usually what the non doesn't get is clear closure on it. Generally the pwBPD wasn't capable of being clearly there in the relationship the way you wanted... .and they also aren't capable of being clearly out of the relationship the way you would want it when they end it either.

And... .if you are getting that kind of mixed message... .you have to resolve how you will handle them. Resolving whether she has BPD or not won't remove the mixed message for you.

If you want closure, you will probably have to make it for yourself.

Is there any way to predict the likelihood of a recycle, if I'd even be up for one?

Riddler,

I wish there was something someone could say that might help you find a little distance between your feelings and what's really happening.

I think Happy's reply to you here is incredibly valuable and helpful --


As hard as it is to hear it -- the truth is that no one can really know. There are no definite answers. "All's fair in love and war," as the saying goes. The only person who can provide any actual feedback here is your ex, and she hasn't provided much. What little she has provided would seem to indicate that, at the very least, she wants/needs some space right now.

Can you find a way to accept that and just give her space?

And, as Happy suggests -- take some space for yourself, too. Stop being so hard on yourself. You didn't make this happen. You didn't fail.

R. --

Just came across some great posts here on detaching, buddy. Take a look. I'm hoping they can help settle your mind.

Just Let Go (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=135116.0)

10 Reasons Why... . (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271514.new#new)

Hi TheRiddler,

First of all, I am so sorry for the pain and distress that this breakup is causing you.  I can very much sympathize and I feel for you.  I am in similar shoes to yours and I understand how agonizingly painful this is.  Please know that you are not alone, and please remember that this is not your fault.  Truly.

As you are coming to realize, a partner with BPD is something entirely different than you have ever experienced before.  It requires a far different kind of understanding and relating than other relationships.  Unfortunately, you are currently a trigger for your ex, as I am a trigger for my ex.  This means that the very thought of us is excruciatingly painful and confusing for our exes and they are doing everything they know how to do to suppress and run from that overwhelming emotion.  This is NOT your fault.  This is the disorder.  There is absolutely nothing you can do to change this, however.  I know that is a horrifying thought to you right now, and I am truly sorry, but it is the truth.  Your pursuing her and attempting to contact her family and to press the issue with her is only driving her further away.  I think you are starting to see this.  You have to stop making things worse before they can get better, my friend.  You have to give her space right now.  You must.  Please, spend some time sitting with that thought and working through the panic that I'm sure it induces.  I was EXACTLY where you are once, so I am telling you exactly what I once had to tell myself too.  You have to give her space.  It is the only possible way that either of you can heal right now, and it is the only way to keep the door open to someday possibly rekindling your relationship.

If you truly love this woman, and I believe you do, this is your chance to prove your love.  Love sometimes requires sacrifice and right now sacrifice is needed.  I realize this is a torturous test, but you must realize that your ex can't heal with you in the picture.  Because she loves you, and despite what some say I truly believe they sincerely love us, you are intimately attached to an intensity of emotion the likes of which you and I may not be able to understand.  She must allow this emotion to subside and that requires distance from you.  Ultimately, she will have to undertake the difficult task of becoming an autonomous self.  This is a daunting and frightening journey for her, but it is one she must make on her own, with the guidance of a trained professional.  This is not something that you can be a part of.  It is the very same with me and my ex.  Much as I would do anything to fix things for my ex, I can't.  The disorder doesn't work that way.  She must do this on her own, and if you love her you will give her this gift.  Let her go with love.  Let her go without blaming her, or shaming her, or being bitter with her.  This is true love, and true love sometimes requires sacrifice.

Right now, the best thing that you can do is to find a therapist yourself and begin to work on yourself.  This is cliche, but it is also true.  If you want to be with this woman, and none of us can say if that will happen - but it might, then you are going to have to be her rock.  She is not going to be able to be an equal partner in this relationship.  Not without years and years of therapy, and maybe not even then.  So, you will have to be the pillar of this relationship.  You are going to have to conquer your own fears and insecurities.  You are going to have to learn to read her emotions, respond to and validate them.  You are going to have to be the calm, soothing, reassuring constant in her life.  You must be her rock.  This is not an easy task, and it will require tremendous personal growth on your part.  This is a journey I have begun to undertake myself.  Even if you are never able to be with your ex, you will be a better man for the changes you have made.  It is worth doing for that alone.

Hang in there, my friend.  We're here for you.

Thank you, that's nice to hear.  :)

I'm trying to just get this situated in my mind as her being borderline, but some things don't seem to fit.  I've read quite a few accounts on these boards and I don't recall one where the pwBPD says the couple should take a break.  When she first told me of "the break," she also told me she'd been thinking about it for a while.  Aren't people suffering from BPD more impulsive than that?  It's confusing.

But then, there were quite a few times where we'd be having a conversation at her place and she'd start the most ridiculous of arguments.  They'd get way more heated than the subject matter had any right to be, and I'd say I'm tired of putting up with this, I'm just going to go and we can talk about it later.  Then she'd say, if you leave we're going to have to take a break / I'm breaking up with you (depending on the day).  And she'd tell me you know about my abandonment issues. 

In fact, the last night I saw her (which was the night before she said we were taking a break), I was really feeling horrible and ill, a bug had been going around my office, and I didn't want to spend the night and potentially get her sick.  We had a bit of a fight about something I can't remember, and I told her I wasn't feeling well, I didn't want to get into it.  So she tells me it was okay, she knows how I like sleeping on my own sheets (which wasn't the point).  But she had kind of a look on her face that I hadn't put together as "off" until I was driving home.  And later she'd accuse me of not noticing that she was upset, which I suppose I didn't right away... but to my credit I wasn't doing very well on account of the cold or whatever it was.

I'm sorry to be a broken record, I appreciate all of the insightful, kind words. 

I just can't stop thinking I should have been more proactive about moving the relationship forward... she talked about it, but I just didn't understand.

I read articles and message board posts and it just feels like, though no one can really say, I don't have much of a chance of anything in the future with her, that she just fell out of love with me and I'm forever a person she'd not want to be with.  I'm really tired of thinking this stuff, but it's fully inhabiting my mind, and therapy and meds are of some help but the thoughts remain.  They're such scary, hopeless thoughts. 

I've thought about reaching out to see if she's completely written me off, but I don't know if she'd even know.

And apologies in advance for all of the posts, but I had a question I've been meaning to ask:

I've heard many times on this forum (and have been told, specifically) that having no contact with an ex pwBPD is the most probable way they'll re-engage, but point 8 of the "bpdfamily.com" article (https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality) says "absence generally makes the heart grow colder."  These seem to be two conflicting ideas to me.

When everything has five explanations, it's tough to get any kind of an answer.

It is quite common that a partner with BPD will stop the relationship.  This is one of the tragic contradictions of the disorder.  While pwBPD are terrified of abandonment and desperately seek to prevent it, they also often experience what is known as engulfment.  Engulfment is also a terrifying experience, and it is a feeling that they are losing themselves in someone else - that they are being swallowed up and will cease to exist.  This is one of the consequences of a pwBPD not having a fully formed self, which many experts believe to be at the very core of the disorder.  So, often a pwBPD feels these back and forth swings in relationships between fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment.  This is what gives rise to the heartbreaking push/pull dynamic of the disorder.  Eventually these fears and emotions can become so overwhelming that the BPD partner leaves the relationship, because they simply have to run from the emotion the only way left.

I can't prove it, but I sincerely believe that many pwBPD enter into relationships with absolute sincerity.  They really do love, admire, and desire their partners.  They want things to work.  They want to live happily ever after.  They hope beyond hope that they have found the perfect love they seek who will finally love them forever and complete them.  But as the relationship builds and the couple become ever more emotionally intimate, all of the core fears of the disorder become activated.  The BPD partner becomes hypervigilent to abandonment, certain that they are unworthy and incapable of being loved and that once their partner realizes this they will leave.  Every word and every action of their partner is increasingly scrutinized through this lens of mistrust.  Meanwhile, there is this growing feeling that they are losing themselves.  That they are ceasing to exist in someone else, and there are desperate attempts to assert independence and self-sufficiency.  Eventually, it often reaches a point where the pwBPD can no longer stand the overwhelming emotions their partner is triggering, and they leave.  So, while pwBPD do tend to be impulsive, and the act of leaving itself may be impulsive, it is most likely that there has been a long build up behind the scenes with the pwBPD struggling with raging emotions they can neither control nor cope with.  It is critical to realize, however, that while you are a trigger for your ex, you are NOT the cause.  You didn't cause her to feel these things, and honestly she didn't either.  This is her disorder at work.  This is what the disorder does, because it is evil and awful.  But, can you understand now, why she can't stand to have anything to do with you?  It's not because she doesn't care.  It's the exact opposite.  It's because she cares more than she can handle.

My own ex had times when, after my pushing her to try and resolve her chronic silent treatments, she would try and have us take a "break".  I think it was her way of trying to maintain the relationship while having the space to reduce the overwhelming feelings.  She told me a number of times that the last thing she wanted was for us to break up.  I believe her.  I suspect that your ex feels the same.  She just doesn't know what else to do.  Unfortunately, this is not something that you can fix.  Neither can I.  We are triggers and we must understand that.


Everyone has regrets about relationships, even lasting relationships.  We all make mistakes and wish that we had done things differently.  This is to be human.  Please, do understand, however, that there is nothing you could have done to prevent this break up.   I am very sorry to have to say that, because I know firsthand how much that thought hurts.  The tragedy is that you could never be perfect enough - even if you were perfection itself.   The fears inherent in BPD are triggered by intimacy.  It is a terrible tragedy, but the better and more loving of a partner you are, the more the disorder tends to be triggered.  Ultimately, your ex is never going to be able to have a stable relationships with anyone unless she is able to begin the very difficult task of healing her disorder - and that means developing an autonomous self.  I feel very sorry for both of you, because this is truly neither of your faults.  This is the miserable disorder.

No one, except God, can say if you will be able to continue a relationship with this woman.  She may not even be able to say herself, because her emotions are so shifting.   There is an overwhelming chance that she does miss you terribly and this is breaking her heart to leave you, but she is doing everything possible to ignore and suppress that, because it is more pain than she can bare.  She not only has emotions of extreme intensity, she also has extremely limited ability to cope with them.  She has only a limited number of very primitive coping mechanisms and none of them are healthy.  One of her tasks in therapy will be to learn to deal with stress and emotions in a more healthy manner.  I know you want to be with her, and I know how much you want to know if you will be able to.  I don't want to lie to you, however.   There is certainly a chance that you will be able to get back together, but there is no guarantee.  It is impossible to put some sort of percentage on that.   Everyone and every relationship is unique and having a BPD partner doesn't change that.   There is just no way to know.   That is why I and other members have advised you as we have.  Spend the time now to work on yourself, and if she comes back then you will be in a far better position to provide the kind of relationship with the most lasting chance of stability.  We must remember, however, that ultimately only she can truly conquer this disorder and she has to do that alone.


Yes, this is true.  Absence does tend to make the heart grow colder.  I think that is true for most everyone, but it seems to be more true for pwBPD.  pwBPD have problems with object constancy.  This is object relations thery, and I don't understand it on any sort of deep level, so I will have to forgo trying to explain it.  However, pwBPD have trouble in realizing that there is constancy in things like love.  They tend to believe that since their emotions are constantly in flux, that reality is constantly in flux.  As you are noticing, BPD is full of contradictions.  It is a disorder that seems to be a paradox inside of a paradox.  Your ex is not well.  She has a serious mental illness.  This is not her fault in any way.  But it does mean that she is not experiencing and reacting to the world in a rational, healthy way.  It may be very hard to understand this, because it is deeply disordered thinking.  There is a certain internal logic to the disorder, however, and learning about this could be helpful for you to gain a better insight and context into your ex's thinking and behavior.   For me, it has been very helpful in depersonalizing the experience.  We are not the bad guys and we are not the cause of the breakup or of our ex's suffering.  Please keep that in mind.

I hope that helps.  I feel for you.  I remember very much what it felt like in the wake of my ex leaving me, and how shattered I felt.  How desperate I was to win her back and how much I wanted to fix things.   I had to realize all of the things that I am now telling you, however, and they have indeed been bitter pills to swallow.  I am only trying to tell you the truth, so that you can begin to take the best steps for you, and to have what I believe are the best chances of a future relationship with your ex.  I can tell you from personal experience, that the pain will dull with time.   Hang in there.

Hey cosmonaut,

Thank you for such a detailed reply, that makes a lot of sense.  I'd heard of engulfment but didn't understand what it was completely.  In fact, in a phone call during that period she mentioned the fact that she didn't know who she was. 

Do you or anyone else know if there are some kind of factors that'll determine the likelihood that she'll want to reconnect, or is it just impossible to say?

And by "the break," I meant the 2 month separation that preceded the actual break up.  That's what struck me as a little unusual and methodical for a disorder that's marked by such impulsiveness.

Riddler... .as Cosmonaut had mentioned, only God knows if you both will ever connect. I will however, go out on a limb ans say that a majority of these r/s reconnect (recycle), but keep in mind that those recycles are predicated upon unhealthy needs on their part. I recycled 6 times and the 'off' period lasted anywhere from a month to several hours (diminishing in each recycle - I thought we were out of the woods).  This past b/u was 5 months ago and it is likely that she and I will never speak again.

Here is a post that gives some numbers since you seem to want to have a better idea of the odds of getting back together.  I can't vouch for the scientific accuracy of it since it is just a member poll, but you may find it interesting.  The odds to seem to suggest that a recycle is more likely than not.

Recycling and the Holidays - what is your advice to others? (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=238183.msg12536901#msg12536901)

You may also find this post interesting on the conditions when a recycle is most common.

When is it more likely for a BPDx to get back in touch? (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=240744.msg12559822#msg12559822)


Yes, this is what I meant too.  She would sometimes suggest a period of us having some time away from each other, but not really a full break up.  I was able to convince her not to go through with that in principle, but in reality she continued to withdraw anyway.  She didn't know how else to cope.

*mod*

This is a worthwhile topic and the thread is locked. You are welcome with opening a new thread with a similar topic.