BPDFamily.com

Hey cosmonaut: This is what confuses me.  She said, in her letter, that when I didn't move in together and we didn't get engaged (my inability to read minds has always been my downfall), she slowly started to lose interest in the relationship until it was gone / who knows what.  My situation doesn't quite fit with what you describe, and I fear it's all my fault for not being on the same page.

What I hope you can understand is that your ex is mentally ill.  This isn't her fault, but she is not capable of loving you in a healthy, mature way.  She may be telling the truth that she associates the lack of engagement or moving in together with rejection and abandonment.  This is NOT your fault.   You must understand that she has extremely low self esteem and profound self hatred.  She feels defective.  And she believes deep down that she is unworthy of love.  She believes to her very core that she will always be abandoned.  So, she is constantly on the lookout for what she knows is coming and this provokes tremendous anxiety and mistrust.  The longer your relationship goes on, the more this fear grows and she is hypervigilant to any sign she interprets as rejection.  Note that I used the word interpret.  It does not matter if you ever intended to leave her or reject her; if she interprets it as such then she is going to be triggered.  The awful thing is that you really can't anticipate what she will see as rejection, because she is capable of reading it into almost anything.  If it wasn't the engagement, it would have been something else.  Please understand that this is not your fault.   You did not cause this.  Maybe you feel you made some mistakes, but they were innocent mistakes, and in most relationships could be fairly easily resolved.  Forgive yourself.  You tried to love someone as best you could, but who tragically feels incapable of being loved.

I think you may benefit from spending some time analyzing why you want to believe this is your fault.  Could it be that by being your fault you have the power to fix it?  I hope you will be able to accept that there is nothing you could have done, because this truly isn't your fault.  This is the disorder.  It is not you.  Truly.  I know that is very hard to accept, because it does mean we can't fix the relationship.  But that is the truth.  Your ex has problems that only she can resolve.  And I pray very sincerely that she will, because she is suffering too.  The disorder is the villain here.  Not you!

She's undiagnosed, so unfortunately that leaves a lot of doubt in my mind that she is pwBPD.  That's why I blame myself for everything.  My psychiatrist said she's positive and my therapist thought all of the signs were there.  But I just keep thinking that it's all my fault.  I read that there are people who use the existence of the disorder as an excuse for why a relationship's fallen apart and I automatically think I'm being one of those people.  I need the truth in things, even if I suffer because of it. 

I'd like to try to reach out to her, but I'm hesitant for the same reason you're hesitant... and you've been waiting almost a year.  That scares the hell out of me. 

BPD is just a label, and the label doesn't really matter.  Focus on the the behaviors.  If there were BPD traits, enough that even two professional mental health practicioners suspect it, then that's what counts.  Were those behaviors really appropriate for a sustainable long term relationship?

Maybe if you'd done some things differently, you could have lasted a little longer.  But the end result likely would have been the same.  And all you'd have to show for it would be wasted time.

PwBPD are like a puzzle to us ... .it's our understanding driven nature to try to figure it out.

I understand.  The uncertainty can add to the confusion as to what happened.  It is a dizzying experience.  I remember those last few months just being head spinning, trying to understand what was going on and not knowing what to do since it seemed like everything I did made things worse.  My ex is not diagnosed either.  I actually didn't know anything about BPD before she left me.  It sounds like you are in the same boat.  Ultimately, diagnosis doesn't mean much.  It's just a label and even some professionals refuse to use it because of the stigma it carries.  So, they will diagnose something else like bipolar disorder.  Here, we usually accept that if our loved one exhibits traits of BPD, we work under the assumption that they have BPD.  BPD is a spectrum disorder, and it manifests in many different ways.  My ex is certainly not a classic case, but I am still very confident that she suffers from BPD.  If you feel that your ex fits much of the pattern of BPD, I think it makes sense to proceed as such.

I know you want to contact her.  I want to contact my ex more than I can stand.  But I am holding myself back.  I would recommend that you do the same.  We have to remember that we are triggers for them.  We have to be patient, and if we love them we will be patient.  They need to heal, and we need to heal.

Yes, it has been over a year, and I don't know when or even if we will speak to each other again.  There is no way to know how long your own ex may want to avoid you.  It might be a few weeks, a few months, or even years.  An outside chance she may never.  The thing to remember is that you can't control this timetable, and forcing the issue is only going to backfire.  We must be patient.  I would try and prepare yourself that it will likely be some time before you hear from her.  Spend this time working on you.  This can be a period of significant growth for you.  This experience has probably brought many things to light that were formerly hidden, and we can use this time to address them.  Keep at it.  I'm doing the same.

Thanks guys, that does help.

So what happens if I were to contact her?

I could really use your guys' help on a problem my family, my therapist and I have been trying to solve.  It's complicated, but I'll try to make it simple.  The way she broke up with me, she gave me the impression that she might want to get together in the future.  I understand you can't really listen to anything a pwBPD says according to that Survival Guide.  She said she doesn't want to be in a relationship, she wants to be alone.  I'm obsessing over this to an overwhelming, life-stopping degree because of one thing: Maybe she can't know at the moment, but I just want to know whether I've been written off as someone she'd want to be with in the future.  Is there no way to find this out through asking a simple question?  Have I done something so wrong as to warrant her not wanting to be with me ever again?  I wrestle with this day in and day out, and I'm not able to function very well because of it (as I mentioned in the previous thread, I have pretty severe OCD and sometimes the real world is the only thing that can fix it, not talk therapy or drugs).  I've been trying to think of non confrontational ways to ask the question, both for her and for me.

This is something I'm really, really struggling with, so I hope you guys can help.   Even if she didn't want to be in a relationship anytime soon, just knowing that I'm not out of consideration would mean a lot to me.

If she broke up with you, and she really does want to get back with you, then it's up to her to let you know.

She should have to make the effort.  It's on her.  I know it's hard.  But you have to value yourself, you are the prize.  She gave that up, for whatever reason.  Why should she get it back so easy?  Nothing worthwhile comes so easily.  We value the things that are scarce, things that are hard to attain.

By all means, if you really want to talk to her, then no one can stop you from trying.  But let go of the outcome.

Why let go of the outcome?  The words of a pwBPD aren't trustworthy?  That's what I keep reading.

I can tell from your posts how much this is eating you, Riddler.  I'm truly sorry for your pain, because I know this is brutally hard.  You are clearly hurting and I believe you when you say that you are having trouble even functioning.  I was much the same once.  I'm sorry, man.  Things will get easier as time passes and the pain will dull.  Trust in that.

I think that your ex is telling you the truth when she says that she wants to be alone.  Unless you have some reason to suspect otherwise, I would believe her.  I think that she probably does love you, and that leaving you is something that is exceedingly painful for her.  So much so that she doesn't want to deal with it in any way, so she is doing everything she can to wall it off.  And that includes walling you off.  I don't think that she is cutting contact with you because she doesn't care about you.  I think it is exactly the opposite.  I think she cares very, very much.  I think the reasons she is leaving at all is for the same reason: she is overwhelmed by the emotions that you are stirring in her - emotions she would not feel if she did not deeply care about you.  She does care about you.  I believe that.

None of us can know if she will want to continue a relationship with you in the future.  I know you feel you need an answer to that, but I'm afraid there just isn't an easy answer.  Many pwBPD do return to relationships, but not all.  And many that do return are still not in any way capable of a healthy, stable relationship, and things quickly fall apart again.  This cycle can go on and on and on.  Some member here have recycled a dozen times or more.  I would give her the benefit of the doubt about leaving the door open.  She could very well be sincere that she hopes that distance from you can allow her to begin to get her life and her emotions under control, and then she will be in a position to come back to you.  The problem is that without some serious effort and work on her part to address her underlying disorder in therapy, she is certain to be triggered again.  And again.  And again.  And that leaves you both back where you started.  The only way that you two will ever be able to make a relationship work is to spend some part apart working on yourselves.  This is the truth, Riddler.  You have some deep insecurities and anxieties that you will have to resolve yourself, before you will ever be able to be the kind of rock she will need you to be in a relationship.  She does not have the ability to self soothe.  She likely can't handle stress.  These are things that will be critical for her to work on herself, but she will need your help and your stability too.  She can not handle your emotional instability on top of hers.  If you do not have your emotions and fears under control, how can you expect her to be able to do so when she is at such a significant disadvantage?  This time apart can be a very GOOD thing.

Please, hear me on this.  I really am trying to help you.  You need to let her go for right now.  Contacting her at this juncture is going to go badly.  Not only are you a trigger for her, you are in no condition to be a calm, soothing presence currently.  Please try to accept that you need to step back.  Take some deep breaths, and really let it sink in that this is going to last for a while.  Probably not forever, but it is going to last for some time.  I know that this is terrifying for you, but the sooner you can internalize it, the sooner the panic can start to subside.  Ask your therapist for help on this.  You don't have to do it alone.  My T was a huge help in getting me through the stage you are in right now.

Truly, the very best thing you can be doing with this time is working on you.  If she comes back, and you love this woman and are willing to accept that being with her is never going to be easy, then you are going to have to be her rock, my friend.  You are going to have to be her foundation.  You must be able to provide the calm, soothing presence that she can't provide for herself.  You are going to have to be able to suffer the slings and arrows of her ever changing moods.   You will have to be able to stoically weather her pushing you away, and then welcome her back with open arms.  This is going to require you to be one amazingly strong and stable man.  This is what you should be working towards right now.  That's the goal.  And it is a noble goal.  It is one that is worth doing for YOU alone, too.

cosmonaut: your messages are always so well-thought-out, thanks very much.  But she didn't quite wall me off.  I don't know if you remember I was texting to her mom for a while off and on.  Well, one of the last things her mom said to me after N found out about the texting was that, "he can just speak to me."  I fear, because of this, she doesn't love me at all because if she can speak to me I'm causing her no pain and if I'm causing her no pain I'm no longer a love interest, I suppose?  Apologies if that's convoluted, I don't understand this stuff too well, obviously. 

She'd also told her mom that she'd "checked out" of the relationship at some point, which didn't sound very encouraging.  I don't know if this happens to you, cosmonaut, but I get really frustrated trying to correlate BPD thoughts and word use with non thoughts and word use.  Maybe pwBPD can check out just like a non, I don't know.  Either way, all of this sounds scary and irreversible, and if it's not irreversible the solution can't come from me.  (Or maybe "checked out" is just a phrase to explain away the crazy?  I don't think any of her family member know what she has.)

Are there not like BPD communication specialists that can try to act as a medium between two people?   

Because you can't control the outcome.  This is a dance, with two people, two minds, two hearts.   All you can do is be the best version of yourself.

I also agree with everything that Cosmonaut is saying.  Once you've become the trigger, it is better to back off.  Pushing is only going to push her away.

I would not be contacting her mother behind her back anymore.  That is only going to further her shame, her sense of mistrust, and may well end up with you split very black.  She is triggered and you have to give her space.  That includes her family.  Why did she tell her mother "he can just speak to me"?  Well, that sounds more passive aggressive than it sounds like she sincerely wants to speak to you.  She sounds angry, and she has reason.  You violated her boundaries by speaking to her mother.   I understand why you did.  You are hurt, frightened, and confused.  You are looking for answers.  But you still violated her boundaries.   Can you see that?

I can hear very clearly how scared you are that she doesn't love you, but I am telling you that she would not be triggered if she didn't care.  You might want to read the book Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder by Shari Manning.  This was one of the best, most compassionate, most clearly written books I've read that attempts to explain many of the underlying thoughts and feelings that someone with BPD experiences.  I think it may be able to explain far better than I am able how someone with BPD can both love you and not be able to stand being around you.  It all has to do with overwhelming, out of control emotion.

As far as I'm aware there are no such mediums, and I doubt they could succeed anyway due to the nature of the disorder.  The best way to communicate with someone with BPD is to learn about the disorder and the tools to better relate to them (See posts here (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56206.msg913190#msg913190) and here (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62266.0) for more details).  Many of these tools, especially validation, can actually be used with anyone to improve communication and trust, but they are particularly important with a BPD loved one.  You may want to start learning about them and practicing them in your life.  I would NOT use them with your ex yet - you really do need to give her space.  Use them and practice them in the rest of your life for now, and they will be available whenever she is ready to communicate again.

Hang in there, Riddler.  This really will get easier.

Thanks, I appreciate the support. :)

So I don't quite understand (and I do plan to get that book), but in her mind, what would happen if she and I were to speak in person?  It's just tough to wrap my head around.  There's no reasoning or attempting to communicate about the relationship?  It's just odd, because when a "normal" relationship breaks down there's at least a decent chance of getting it going again with communication and change, but this just seems so completely opposite that.

The nature of it is not that she isn't trustworthy. (She may not be trustworthy either though.) It is that she isn't consistent.

She can say one thing with absolute sincerity, because she is feeling a certain way, and her feelings become facts to her, past, present, and future.

And five minutes later, she will be feeling something different, and will adjust facts (past present, and future) to match her new feelings.

It is indeed not a normal relationship, and that does make it difficult to understand.  Spend some time reading up about BPD on this site, and check out that book.  I think it will help you to have a better insight into what she might be thinking.  She is not likely to see you in person at all, and that is to protect herself.  You are a trigger for her, and she is utilizing the only coping mechanisms she has to deal with the overwhelming emotion.  She is hiding from you, and she will only come out when she feels it is safe to do so.  Trying to communicate with her before then is likely to only push her further away.

I think you're right, I think she does still love me (as she's said (but that gets tricky because apparently we're not supposed to believe what a pwBPD says)).

So there's no way to phrase a question to her trying to figure out whether I'm still in the running as a potential partner in the future?  If I asked her something along those lines, I couldn't trust her words, or is the worry the words might not be accurate to her true feelings?  I don't get it.  I appreciate the patience, guys.  I'm just trying to get my head in a position of relative comfort so I can do other things.

Sorry for the double, couldn't modify.  Is there any truth to this guy? www.reignitethefire.net/will-BPD-ex-come-back/

It is a subtle point, but I wouldn't say that you shouldn't believe what a pwBPD says... .in most cases, they are pretty truthful.

You cannot ask a blind person what color your shirt is and get a helpful answer. Even if they are truthful. Nor would you get a helpful answer if the person could see, but had some weird magical glasses that kept changing the colors they saw to random different colors all the time.


The issue is whether they have any idea or understanding what they will feel in the future. They just don't get that. They are feeling something NOW. They believe that what they are feeling NOW is the way that they always felt and always will feel, and they believe that history and reality match this feeling, present, past, and future.

And like all humans, their feelings do shift. Unlike the rest of us, their entire reality turns on a dime with it.

So when she says she will love you forever, she believes it.

And when she says she hates you and never wants to see you again and that you destroyed her life, she believes it too.

That these too moments were 10 minutes apart doesn't seem to matter to her. Both of them are forever. And they may go back and forth every day for a month!

Here's the tough part. ALL of it is her true feelings.

Do you want to be around somebody with true feelings like that or not?

So true ... .well said

So there's no way to just be friends and try to take it slow, and see if things can be fixed?  Is there any truth to that "Reignite the Fire" guy I posted below?

There may be some truth to the link you posted, in some cases.  But pwBPD are humans, not robots.  They are not all the same, and not everything will work the same way in every case.  I wouldn't get any false hope from a single internet posting.

Being friends with an ex usually takes a level of emotional maturity, in many cases with pwBPD they may not have that, or at least not consistently.  One of the characteristics is a poor sense of boundaries.  That can make friendships tricky.  You of course would need to decide about the level of emotional maturity of your ex for yourself.

I'm not getting false hope from him.  In fact, I was concerned because he says in one of his posts that he was dating a girl with BPD and he tried to push her toward a relationship too quickly so she broke up with him, but married the next guy that came along.  I'm worried that there was a "window" I had to work within and I acted too slowly so there won't be another chance.  I doubt it's as mechanical as that, but that's how it feels. 


I realize they're not robots, that's why it's disconcerting to see posts making it seem as though it's not a person who has the capability to think logically.  I just want to know if she thinks we're just plain incompatible, or if she actually doesn't want to be in a relationship.  And apparently I can't ask her for this information lest I trigger her more, so I'm not sure what to do.  Ironically, I find myself unable to focus on myself until I have a bit more information about this and I'm not sure what to do.  Be sensitive with your replies, please.

I would take that Reignite the Fire guy with a mountain of salt.  I took a brief look at the site and it's just an infomercial for his book.  He is not trying to help you.  He's trying to sell you something.  He has an agenda.  Personally, I wouldn't listen to a thing he says.  He is targeting an audience that is in a very vulnerable state and trying to extract money from their misery.  There are actual objective sources of information on BPD.  You could read some books by James Masterson for a very clinical perspective without him trying to sell you something.  Or you could read some books by Marsha Lineham, who is in some ways an advocate for pwBPD, but is a highly respected authority on the disorder, none-the-less.  I would place exactly zero trust in some guy on the internet trying to sell you his dating scheme.


I think what you really need to decide, Riddler, is whether or not you are willing to accept that your ex has a serious disorder that impacts her ability to form a healthy relationship with you.  If she is indeed BPD, you are asking her for something that she can't provide.   She can't answer you because she both loves you and hates you.  She wants to be with you and she wants to run from you.  Are you able to accept that?

I'm not a fan of saying never. So I won't.

I will describe what you are up against, though:

If you try to 'just be friends' with her, she will still attempt boundary busting behavior and the push-pull dynamics of a BPD romance. Just as bad as she did in a romantic relationship with you.

So you will need rock-solid boundaries to be 'friends' with her. And even if you do... .you will likely have periods of emotional intimacy with her that would look like an emotional affair. So if you do this... .really wanting to be friends, but get on with your life... .and find a new girlfriend, your new girlfriend will probably have VERY GOOD reasons to be horribly jealous of your ex.

And if you were to try to do that are you trying to be friends to get her back? Or trying to be friends because you want to be friends with her? They are NOT the same, and it matters.

I was thinking being friends to get back together with her, eventually.  I didn't want it to be an underhanded thing, though.

And I'm still learning the terminology and such, would you mind explaining the boundary busting behavior you're talking about in both cases?

Did your relationship start up 10X as fast as a healthy one did, with her pulling you into emotional intimacy fast and hard? And then move on rapidly to behaviors that were controlling and manipulative.

That's the sort of boundary busting stuff I'm talking about. I know several members who have tried downgrading a romantic relationship, and most of them didn't go well. If I can think of anybody who did something of the sort, they were somebody who had VERY good boundary skills.

The push-pull is how you will be chased after... .then pushed away... .then chased after... .then pushed away. Each time as if it had always been that way, with no awareness of any disconnect on her part.

... .For example, if you are friends with her... .nothing underhanded... .nothing romantic... .and she realizes you actually went out on a date with another woman, expect fireworks.

This is what leads me to believe she's probably not BPD... I don't recall too much pushing and pulling in the relationship, aside from what I mentioned with us having an argument, me trying to leave to escape the argument, and her threatening that we'd break up if I left.  I don't know if that's quite the same thing.

And I haven't been in what I'd call a healthy relationship so my measure of how fast one should proceed probably isn't the most accurate.  It did seem to move pretty quickly though, particularly sex, and as I've mentioned before, she spoke of moving in together and marriage fairly early on (but my memory is awful so I'm not sure if it was early on enough to raise any red flags).

That's interesting what you're saying about dating someone else and her reaction, though; I just can't picture there really being fireworks.  She was usually more passive aggressive in the way she handled things... at least that's what I'm coming to realize through my reading.  More of a quiet "waif" than the typical object-throwing borderline. 

If she was passive-aggressive instead of raging when you are together, I wouldn't expect her to start raging. I would expect her to continue being passive-aggressive as a friend.

Honestly... .figuring whether she was BPD or which flavor of BPD isn't going to help you very much.

Deciding if you want somebody who treats you that way in your life is what will help you.

A fellow member of this site adviced me to read this thread, i am very grateful for that.

Hi Riddler, i can so relate to your situation.

I am also struggling about writing or not, emailing or not. Is it BPD or not (It took me a while to figure out that it probably is, and if not... what's the diff, it's the behaviour that counts)

To contact her is a choice and you will not know the outcome. It's the constant pressure on us, our brain is programmed for getting answers, it's part of our human survival mode.

One moment i think "NO", the other moment i think "YES".

It's the fear of the unknown that haunts us.

There will be no guarantees in case you contact her. It's a choice, a gamble what it will bring. And even if it brings something bad than you might be disappointed and ask yourself "is this the truth". It's a dangerous circle.

If you read my profile you can see how bizarre things can go. I didnt hear from her for more than a year. The people on the board are great in describing what we are all dealing with. Keep reading.

I am training myself more and more in accepting the fact that i am powerless and dealing with something that only she can start to change. She leaves as if I, my family and her dog never exsisted, married and all in a foreign country.

I know how you feel. In case you contact her be carefull. I was adviced to study S.E.T. It made a lot of sense to me.

After reading all the postings, at this moment i say to myself "NO"- I will not contact her (and stopped doing so in october last year by the way)

Riddler , I posted yesterday "NO"and now I ask myself "what shall I do?"

One thing i know, my wife treats me very bad. cruel and ungrateful, and even not being here she has control over me.

That has to stop, so I decided that I will do what I think I need to do at that moment in time, whatever the outcome.

But whatever you do, do it for yourself. and never blame yourself afterwards that you should have done something else.

Hope this makes sense

It's such an odd position to be put in.

1.) she's pwBPD: I contact her and risk pushing her farther away, or getting unsatisfying wishy-washy answers

2.) she's not pwBPD: I contact her and I risk appearing needy because I didn't allow her to contact me first (as per some random break up rule)

I know there's no certain answer as to our future, but I'd like a way to ask a question to her that wouldn't violate the 2 bullet points above.  I'm just drowning in this crap and I'm sick of it.  If I didn't have OCD, I wouldn't be caught on this like I am, and unfortunately the way my mind works, I need some kind of external validation to shut it off.  My therapist suggested trying to get her in an appointment with me to talk about some of this stuff so I could get some answers, but I doubt she'd go for that.

Anybody have any ideas, even crazy ones?

Maybe you need to ask her, Riddler.  Maybe that will give you the answers you need.  If she is able to tell you plainly, then you have your answer.  If she ignores you or rages at you, well then that tells you something too.  Maybe you should ask.

What do you think?

cosmo:

Maybe I do, yeah.  I'm not in a mental place to take a bad answer, though, at the moment.  And that makes it doubly tough because I always hear on these "Get Her Back" sites that there's a limited window and she's moving on and you need to do things at the right time in the right order... it just sounds ridiculous, yet I put some kind of stock in it because I crave order in this. 

What do you think about that?  Are you under the impression your girl would want to be back together if you spoke to her or do you think she'd have no interest? 

I just think, is there a chance that there isn't some kooky rule that when they go away they aren't coming back unless they do it of their own accord.  Maybe there's some level of reason, there; but of course, you guys seem to have far more knowledge on the subject than I do.


jo19854: So I don't understand, your lady came back after a year?  And you're married, right?  How long were you together before she left this last time? 

I really wouldn't put any stock whatsoever in those "Get Her Back" websites.  You may be doing more harm than good to yourself by reading those.  There is no system to win back anyone - BPD or not.  Every relationship is unique, and every break up is unique.  Please try not to worry about there being some window on getting her back.  That's objectively false.  There are couples all the time that separate and then for whatever reason decide to give things another try.  That can be weeks, months, or years later.   Sometimes things work out the next time around and sometimes not.   Every situation is unique and no one has ever been able to figure out a catch all system.  There are far, far too many variables.  BPD relationships follow these same rules, even if there are considerable more complexities.

I simply don't know about my ex anymore than anyone can say what will happen with your ex.  My feelings are that there is indeed the possibility, but it is only a possibility.  I am encouraged that she told me the truth about her reasons for leaving, that she is apparently indeed working on herself, and that she hasn't been dating.  That said, she has significant problems and they go considerably beyond just BPD.  She has an awful lot to work through and I have no way of knowing how long that might take her, or if she will ever feel ready for another relationship.  I also don't fully know how she feels about me.  I want to believe that she really did deeply love me, and that is what my gut says, but I just don't know.  She is a waif that is in the process of becoming a hermit.  Those are just labels, and things are far more complex than that, but it helps to communicate some of the dynamics that are at work.   Even when I met her, she was not a seductress.  She was not looking to jump into a relationship.  She told me that she was damaged goods and didn't think she would ever be with anyone again.   While we definitely had an intense connection and there was a strong mutual attraction, it took me quite a while - many months - of pursuing her before we become a couple.   She is not your "typical" pwBPD.  As I have said, every pwBPD is unique and every relationship is unique.  So for now, I wait.  My heart is still hers and that has not changed at all.  I do still want to give things another try.  Very much.  But I must be patient.   She needs space to work on herself and I don't want to interfere with that.  She is already digging very deep to face what she is facing.  I don't know that she can deal with the emotion of my return too.  Because I love her, I will give her space.  She has asked me to do so, and I will.  For now, I am working on myself and there is indeed much work to be done there.   I will have to be a much stronger, more stable, more patient man if we are to have a chance of making things work the next time.  I have my own changes to make.

Your ex has to come back of her own accord, Riddler.  This is true of anyone.  My ex too.  Love doesn't mean anything if not freely given.  You can't manipulate or force or buy someone into loving you.  That is not what love is.   Maybe you need to ask her if she would consider coming back some day, but ultimately it will be her decision and you can't force any other outcome.   This is simply the way it is.

Riddler,

We were together 12 years, married 2

She left a year ago unexpectedly, no goodbey, only a note i found when i came back from work.

In the morning we discussed evening dinner, i got a kiss, a smile on her face.

I have never have heard of her or seen her again, blocked all communication.

She thanked me for everything and wrote i could email her, i never got a reply.

She took a picture of us with her and the keys of the house. That's all.

By the way ; I did send her an email today after 5 months

I'd be interested to hear what she has to say, if you'd be able to share it.

cosmonaut: I'm not talking about manipulation of any kind, I'm talking about knowing where I stand, and finding out in a way that doesn't jeopardize anything.

Where do you stand with yourself? That's a lot more important than where you stand with her.

I'm really upset about the way she handled the break up.  She said in her last letter that she didn't want to let me go... she left me under the impression I was going to have an opportunity to genuinely present my side of the case and have an honest chance of staying together.  The fact that she said she was being selfish in doing this... this is pretty clear indication she knew what she was doing, but let me suffer with uncertainty for 2 months regardless.

That's pretty damn awful, and I'll admit that.  She's got lots of issues, but I have issues, too.  I'd just feel regret if she and I couldn't have another go with more open communication.  I understand it's not up to me, but I also understand that there's someone who can say whether there's a real chance in the future and I don't know if I can trust a word she says... not because she's malicious, but possibly because she has an illness... that I'm not sure she has. 

Now I'm going to go and see my therapist tomorrow and talk about the same crap that never goes anywhere.  How I don't know if it's BPD or if she just thought so little of me she wanted to let the relationship die, all of it.  Whether I should text her and what to say.  I can't even talk to her because I'm not in a mental state to take another hit, and if I could I don't know if I could believe her.  I'm not even in a mental state to be back together at the moment, to tell you the truth.

This is a giant, nightmare of a Rubik's cube of unanswered questions that's constantly spinning and I need to get a hold on at least one side or I'm going to keep getting worse. 

I'm sorry Grey Kitty, I misunderstood your question.

To tell you the truth, I'm ashamed and embarrassed.  I feel those were problems that could have been easily dealt with had we been more openly communicative.  I'd like to make contact to see if another chance is in the cards at some point when she's up to dating again.  That's scary to me because I don't know if, like a lot of members have warned me, she'll give me a straight answer or not.  

You say you feel ashamed and embarrassed. That's a good start.

When you say "we had been more openly communicative", there are two halves to that "we" -- you and her.

Do you wish she had been more communicative?

Do you wish you had communicated better or more openly with her?

Are there specific actions you took (or didn't take) that you regret?



Are you saying you want to resume dating her? If so, are there changes in your relationship that you would want or even need for this to work for you?

I do wish she was more communicative, yeah.  I wish she'd told me how much the not moving in and not being engaged (if those were the real reasons) meant to her in clearer terms.  She knew I take my time with things and also don't always clearly understand something unless it's very explicit, so I'm guessing she just didn't care anymore.

I do wish I was more communicative, too.  I wish I'd told her more explicitly that I was planning on getting a place as soon as the latest job I was on was over.  I'd been crazily stressed because of it.

If you check out the original thread I go into more detail, but I tried to do all kinds of things to improve myself and they didn't seem to make much of a difference... I don't think she cared. 

To show you where I'm at, I was just looking at the site linked below and thinking she probably just fell out of love with me and will never see me as a viable partner again. (www.love.allwomenstalk.com/reasons-why-you-should-give-him-another-chance)

Or, she has BPD and she's "triggered" and she's pained to speak to me, even though I've been informed she has no problem talking if I want to talk to her.  Some people do well with ambiguity and can think, "well, it just didn't work out... oh well."  I'm not one of those people.  This has taken over my life, and I need something to happen. 

Why do you want to chase after her when she is clearly expressing a lack of interest in you?

You really don't know WHY she's not into you.

However her actions (if I read them correctly) are to go away for a couple months saying she'd be resuming... .then to have nothing to do with you pretty much.

Do you want to be with a woman who isn't that into you?

I thought I triggered her and she was really in love with me but couldn't be with me because of the pain it would cause.  You see, it's difficult to take any advice seriously when it differs so drastically from person to person.  I'm assuming she's BPD, but I don't know, and it's difficult to presume she's not because that greatly influences what she'd do.

She didn't say we'd be resuming, she said we'd have a discussion.  I go through all of that in the previous thread.

And I want something to do with her because I love her.  She said she loves me.  I think we had some poor communication, but I don't think the problems in our relationship are anything that couldn't be resolved fairly easily.  I don't know she won't ever want anything to do with me again, I just know she doesn't want a relationship right now, with anyone.  I've been told by a number of people it seems her behavior is best explained by BPD, but despite this, I would give us another chance if she'd have me.  I don't know if she would have me, and I don't know how to find out because if she's BPD I don't know if I'll be able to trust her answer. 

I could be wrong, but after quite a bit of reading it seems not all people who get together from a breakup do it by just hoping someone will come back to them.  It can take some effort, but I'm not sure if it's worth putting in that effort.

I agree with your assessment that good communications would have helped and possibly saved your relationship.

Do you think she is capable of good communications with you?

I think she is, yeah.  I think she needs to feel more comfortable voicing her opinion around me, and being more empathetic to others' opinions is something I'm working on.

I had an idea and I'd appreciate your guys' advice.  I was thinking of asking the following:

"You said we may get together in the future.  Did you mean that?"  (I'm up to wording suggestions)

This uses her words, and feels less harmful to me than anything else I've been thinking of for this ridiculous problem.

She did say that she needed to be alone.  She prided herself on her honesty, but then I hear people around here and elsewhere saying, "borderlines only lie when they speak" and other stuff, so it's disheartening to know what to do in a situation that requires words.

Maybe I should let some more time pass before asking, or maybe I need to strike while the iron is hot... I don't know.  Online, you can find an opinion to support any idea you come up with so it's tough to be comfortable with any direction.

Uhm, I asked you if you thought she was capable of good communications with you. This sounds like an acknowledgement that she has a problem, with a vague hope that she could improve.

Has she given you reason to believe she will do better in the future?

Do you believe that you have better tools now than you did before, and can cover enough of the gap on your side without her making changes?

My suggestion:

"What did you mean when you said we might get together in the future?"

It doesn't put her on the defensive as much--it is asking for clarification.


BTW... .the lesson *I* am learning right now may be the one you need... .or it may not, but I'll put it out there very directly: I am getting a mixed message from my wife. Have been for a while. I'm learning to not expect her to give me a clear message and good closure ending things. I'm choosing to believe that the mixed message is exactly where she's at, what she feels, and what she means.

And I'm drawing my own conclusion from that. I'm worth being in a relationship with somebody who is 100% clear that they want to be with me. A big mix of "yes on this, no on that" isn't good enough for me today.

I'm believing the mixed message... .and saying "No".

If your situation is similar... .I'd encourage you to believe the mixed message... .and decide whether your answer is "Yes", "No", "Maybe", or "I'll wait for you to decide", or something else.

That's a much better phrasing, thank you.  I don't know the best time to ask, though.  I don't think I want to initiate contact for a while, and even if she were to contact me I don't think I'd respond at the moment.  But maybe I should?  I'm sure you can see the confusion. 

And I think that might be pretty close to what I need, yeah, but I can't tell for sure because I haven't heard from her lately to know if she's mixed.  I might ask her and she may say "no" before I get the question out.

So in not too long it'll be about 2 months since I last contacted her directly.  I'm feeling quite a bit better than I did before, and in no small part to your guys' help.  I had my therapist get in touch with an old colleague of hers that worked directly with Marsha Linnehan, and this colleague is confident N is a pwBPD.  So that's really increased my confidence and unburdened me from the pain I was feeling.

With all of this in mind, even thinking quite a bit more clearly than I have been, I still would give her one more chance if there was a chance to be had.  I don't know how to go about finding out if there is... it seems the very act of breaking NC to speak to her could hurt my chances. 

So what do you guys think?  I'm thinking I should just continue to let time pass and become stronger.  I heard what you said cosmo, about there being no time limit and all of that, and I respect it, but I can't help but feel there's an hourglass of opportunity slowly draining away and if I wait too long there won't be any chance at all.  I suppose it'd be nice to have a better grasp of what factors go into determining how likely it is that we could be together.  I fear she's becoming indifferent.  I am as well, truth be told... she now feels more optional to me than necessary.  But I fear with her disorder, she doesn't have that luxury... I'm either on or off like a switch, not a choice she can make.

If I could get some feedback on the last post, I'd appreciate it.

And I have a couple of new thoughts to share:

I can't shake the feeling that whatever she wrote in her last letter, everything came down to the fact that I left that last night when I didn't want to get her sick.  I feel that if I'd stayed, everything would have been fine (or as fine as it could have been).  She'd told me if I ever left at night/during an argument we'd need to take a break, but she also let me leave one time before without any repercussions (that I know of), so it's tough to know.

Another thing I'm encountering is how frustrating it is to hear love songs about typical relationships (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBKx8PyE5qQ, for example), and feeling that our relationship went through the normal course a relationship when that couldn't be further from the truth.  I guess I'm trying to say that experiencing the reality of the relationship, particularly when I knew nothing of BPD, and looking back on it with what I know now, it's easy to think what you're experiencing is just a normal course of events everyone goes through.  Songs like this get me a little angry, to tell you the truth, because it makes me feel as though I did something wrong, and on top of that there was someone who thought so little of our relationship that she wouldn't help me fix it.  That last sentence could be an incorrect interpretation of the thought processes behind BPD, but I'm doing the best I can.

I hear that you are afraid of something... .but you don't sound quite clear on how it would work or happen.

My take is that your ?BPDexgf is either capable of trying to have a relationship with you that is healthy enough for you to want it... .or she isn't capable.

If telling her that you care about her and want to try again "scares her off", then that is a clear sign that she isn't capable.

So if you want to reach out to her one more time, go for it. Keep your words about you, and keep anything about her to an open question, rather than a statement about what she is doing/thinking/feeling.

I think the biggest risk is that she will reject you again, either by directly stating her rejection, or by just ignoring you when you reach out. The first seems clearer (and thus better) than your current situation, and the second seems no different from your current situation. So I don't see what you have to lose that way either.

Can YOU identify what you are most afraid of?


Popular culture (love songs, romantic comedies, breakup songs, 50 shades of grey, etc., etc.) usually shows dramatic and unhealthy versions of relationships, falling in love, breaking up, you name it. A huge number of love songs express a feeling of being possessive, codependent, or enmeshed to me. The ones that sound healthy to me are rare!

*mod*

The thread has reached it's post limit and is locked. It's a worthwhile topic and a new and similar topic of discussion is welcomed.