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Yesterday I had the pleasure of breaking NC after 50 days, due to a FB notification to a group unBPD-ex runs that I did not even remember being a part of since it was inactive since 2011. He posted something in there about my illness (I have a stress related chronic illness) as if he were an expert in it and mentioning the treatment I use as a success story. First post to this group since 2011. Likely designed to get my attention. It worked because it reall rattled me and I ended up going on his FB ( I have defriended him but he currently seems to have everything set to public) and I had the joy of reading two months of horrible stuff, including him asking people how to get rid of his relationship status, like it was a piece of garbage (we were together all together 3 years plus two years prior to that as friends and we were engaged twice, you would expect a modicum of respect). And he then set his status as "free agent" and was bragging like a low life sleaze ball about his new single life. Also... .seems there was not one iota of grief, sadness, remorse, nothing. The dude is having the time of his life. So then why the illness post? Anyway I ended up emailing him and giving him a piece of my mind, I even told him you know, to get rid of relationship status, how about you disappear for a month and see if it goes away on its own, seems to work for you in real life, maybe you should give it  a try. I was pissed. This guy has taken so much from me, I supported him so much how dare he be this disrespectful in front of communal friends.

I came away from the whole thing feeling like I had stepped into dirt and that I needed a bath to get cleansed from the experience. The irony is I think he misses me and that he was prepping for a recycle. On the plus side, I was kind of pining away for the dude and I guess that killed any longing dead in its tracks. In some ways I am grateful as now I feel like I can really close the door. This person is just too messed up to deserve any more of my energy or time. And I know in theory they are mentally ill, but where does the line between mental illness and cruel evil behavior lie? Everybody has a choice, no matter how broken... .I dunno. Some of this to me is just despicable behavior. Maybe the 50 days NC broke the bond enough for me to have some perspective.

Anyway, I came away feeling that this guy is just someone I dont even know. Sleaze and nasty are the words that come to mind. And vindictive.

Oh well I give up trying to understand. My mind does not understand this, its just too messed up.

Ridingthewaves: Sounds like you dodged a HUGE missile that would have devastated your life into oblivion.  Consider yourself extremely fortunate that you never got married to this guy.  There is no rational way to rationalize irrational behavior.

Thank you for saying this, as it rings true... .its like the Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, but the evil one is a horrible person that I want nothing to do with... .I seriously scrolled through 2 months of posts and I was like ... .who is this man? I dated this man and loved him? Its like he is reveling in his dark side. Yuck. I am kind of in shock, but on the other hand grateful as I needed the kick up the pants to move on. I know people swear by NC, but I tend to romanticize at a distance so this was a good reality check for me.

You're welcome.  There is a real evil side to this disorder.  Keep the reality check in check on this guy.  The Forest Gump movie line; "Run Forest Run", comes to mind.

The disorder does a number on ones brain, because its hard to process the split personality effect... .how do you reconcile the nice loving person they can be and this? I can literally feel my brain short-circuiting trying to hold the opposing polarities.

The disorder can definitely do a number on ones brain.  I think split personalities are at the core of this disorder.  Its difficult to reconcile much of anything with BPD as it is an extremely twisted disorder.

I'm so sorry you read hurtful things.   I know it's painful.

It's difficult to discern anyone's true feelings or situation from Facebook. I doubt he's having the time of his life; he's most likely just trying to numb emotional pain.

His FB profile being public, and the sudden post (about you) in a long-defunct group, shows that he's trying to get your attention. You're very much on his mind. He probably posted that stuff for two months, trying to get a reaction, and then when he realized you weren't hanging on his status updates, he made a post clearly directed at you via the group. It's a childish way of poking, trying to initiate contact... .to contact you directly would require more maturity than he's currently capable of.


I agree, it sounds like he misses you and was gearing up to try a recycle. He probably will try to contact you directly at some point. How do you feel about that possibility?

I'm glad you feel like this gave you the closure you needed.  :) You've had the time to step back and see the reality of who he is.


It's absolutely true that everyone has a choice. Mental illness certainly shouldn't excuse cruelty.

For a borderline, their emotional survival comes first. They will do whatever it takes to prevent what they see as "emotional death." They're so full of their own needs that there isn't any room for others' needs. And when they feel threatened and are in survival mode, they lack the capacity for empathy.

Sometimes the pain they cause is inadvertent, just a byproduct of their survival. Sometimes they hurt others intentionally - especially once their partner has become the Punitive Parent (receiving the borderline's projections of "badness". This way, the borderline can safely direct their self-loathing and unresolved anger at their own "bad" parts via their partner.

Again, this isn't an excuse for cruelty, disrespect, abuse, or any of those things. We all have to take responsibility for ourselves. But it does help explain why people with BPD can come across like sociopaths sometimes, with a lack of empathy or remorse. Borderlines are capable of empathy and remorse, but not necessarily consistently.

In the end, it's far less about the possible diagnosis than about whether or not this is a person who's healthy and good for you. Only you can decide that, of course. But it appears that you have done so. :)

From a psychological standpoint a person in my opinion cannot be a true sociopath if they have "comorbid" BPD

They say there can be some crossover but BPD is characterized by extreme, intense emotions, ASPD on the other hand basically do not have emotions. The disorders can surprisingly produce similar effects but they are basically at odds with their core symptoms.

BPD can be treated fairly well if the patient undergoes intense therapy over a period of time, ASPD on the other hand is "managed" by basically drilling into the patient that behaving better is to their benefit. They don't care about anyone or anything, BPD do, they just have a weird way of showing it and most times can't actually handle how strongly they feel so they ruin their own relationships out of fear and confusion.

Sociopaths DOMINATE Borderlines in relationships because they quickly figure out the borderlines emotional weaknesses and triggers and they are more skilled at manipulation and will just exploit the borderlines weaknesses mercilessly to their own end. An example would be a sociopath adding to the BPD's self loathing and feelings of worthlessness "nobody else would take you, you are ugly, pathetic and stupid" etc etc etc, when the BPD reacts the sociopath will be completley unmoved by any of the typical BPD mind games.

it's sick

Yeah that was painful, I have been reeling all day trying to digest it :-(


Good point, I had not thought of that. Its hard to believe one would go to such nasty length to get a reaction, especially when he is the one that vanished, its like he did not expect me to dump him and is behaving like I am the bad guy for walking away, when he had already walked away. I just called the time of death.


A mixture of love and dread. I loved this guy and I am vulnerable to his recycles. He pulls on some part of me that goes mushy when he switches on the charm. I will give this some serious thought, so that I am prepared.


Excellent explanation thank you x


Good point and good food for thought... .need to be ready for all this... .

yes makes sense... .



He has a side that is like this. But also emotional, infact emotional dis-regulation describes him well. he likes to dominate and be in control, and he triggered my abandonment stuff like crazy, but he had also times of intense and real vulnerability and abandonment issues of his own. However thee have been times in which he switched into this cold and callous persona. Very abusive when he switched to this mode. Anyway, the mind boggles to contain all this crazy. I have been very alone and lonely the past few months, while also busy dealing with some major work and school related matters, but at least things were normal.

I dont know, now I am feeling very agitated... .like some fear ... .need to take a look at why I am feeling frightened.

Hugs   

There is a site that I follow that has information about sociopaths. I see a lot of overlap between BPD and sociopath. Not sure if somebody can be both.

www.datingasociopath.com/

I have found some of the information on this site useful because it has stuff on gaslighting and dealing with abuse and recovering from it. I am pretty sure that the guy I had an affair with is a sociopath or some other kind of overly manipulative person. It could be BPD. Really, the diagnosis isn't as important as finding information that validates that you are not crazy and the other person took you for one heck of a ride and you are hurting like crazy.

Thank you Vortex thats really helpful x

Ridingthewaves: There can be many sides to a BPD person.  Many have control issues with fears of being controlled and abandoned.  The push away often involves them going cold and callous.  It's a protective wall for them to feel safe and less vulnerable, albeit a false sense of security.  Mine did the same kind of mistreatment on me.  She was very sweet and loving until it came time to breakup with me.  This is when the cold and callous side of her came to the surface to push me away. 

As for you feeling lonely, I think this is to be expected when someone close and meaningful in our lives is no longer there.  This is when a void is created.  Emotions of agitation, fear, being frightened, etc can be all over the board from everything being stirred up within us.  Take time out for you to heal and mend properly.

Thank you Restored... .that's good feedback and soothing words too. I dont think he will be contacting me right away, I smashed him pretty hard with my words. In hate this dynamic, its like you get to the point where you just want them to leave you alone, but you also still love them and miss them very much... .but its like eating a cherry with a worm in it and a worm that bites.

Anyway I think I am going to make myself a cup of chamomile tea.

I did not engage in any of the social media crap. I knew that I would not have fared well pointing that gun at myself by investigating her portrayals. I just knew that I did not have the stamina to engage in that nonsense. I cancelled my accounts and stayed in reality. Unfortunately reality entailed running into her alone and with my replacement publicly in my small town.I did encounter what I feel is mentally ill if not worse as it was grown adults in their late 30's acting like 6th-graders.

They obviously had put a "plan" together on how to act when the "ran-in" to me... .which was to embrace and kiss etc. ... .it was soo "put-on". It was hard to comprehend that this was the person that I had lived with for 5 years... .but if she was alone... .she would put on this forelorn little "lost child" victim act, like I should feel sorry for her and rescue the confused lost little puppy? (I guess she was just magically expecting me to continue to play the role that I had played in the relationship, even though she had treated me with such cruelty with a replacement and abandonment). It was quite bizarre to say the least. Kind of like each situation was in its own little box and the boxes had no thread of connection.

It caused me an immense amount of pain... .but... .high fives... .I did't play her game. It was not easy.  I always moved away from that lost-puppy act as fast as I could without interacting. I was able to avoid the triangulation attempt, if that's what they were? It was all so totally disconcerting and disturbing.

The biggest give away for a sociopath in my opinion is a lack of fear. There may be co morbid traits but in my unprofessional opinion BPD and sociopath cant be co morbid as pwBPD are ultimately afraid whereas sociopaths arent.

Afraid of being alone. EVER.

From the available clinical literature and anecdotal experience, I highly doubt that they are capable of remorse without redefining the word. They may feel regret, which is basically, as a renowned author put it “a distress over a desire unfulfilled", they may feel shame, but guilt and remorse are closely related, higher level emotions, not experienced in the paranoid-schizoid position.

You're spot on with empathy.

As Kiera says, people with BPD are nearly always in emotional overload, encumbered by negative painful feelings constantly begging for attention. So when there seems to lack empathy, it's not a deficit so much as a complication of trying to pay attention to your feelings and desires when, like a small child, they're so consumed by their own.

Prior research indicates that although BPD patients might not be more physiologically reactive to emotional cues in general, they might show increased emotional vulnerability if borderline-specific themes are addressed and comorbid PTSD is present (Limberg et al., 2011). In particular stimuli inducing perception of rejection or abandonment are able to elicit arousal and strong negative emotions such as anger and rage in BPD (Berenson et al., 2011; Limberg et al., 2011; Renneberg et al., 2012). Therefore, future studies should use these stimuli to assess social cognition under varying arousal and emotional conditions and in different social contexts.

Anxiety5 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=235414.msg12515426#msg12515426)'s analogy is worth reading.

Oh, YES.  Posted about this brain-splitting experience not too long ago:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271143.0 (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271143.0)

":)etached protector"?  Look up Jeffrey Young's schema therapy and schema "modes"

I too was towards the end wondering if my ex had sociopathic traits? Kinda weird to even think to ask yourself about someone your in a r/s ? But w this type of r/s hey it's normal to ask yourself those type of questions. I wish I was asking more questions like I think my partner has a cold or needs to go to the gym ? But not when we exist in insanity. Sociopaths traits of no guilt , risk takers at any cost, fake expressions , can't love ... .

The who FB smear you read about sounds just plain disgustingly mean. I got off FB the moment she left due to it being her forum ... I'd be like in a arena for her to publically smear me even more. Trust me even w me able to not be in the public eye for humiliation she still found ways to smear me. I think this now because I'm more on the recovery part 2 months out. I'm still in hurt but differently I think Im seeing that if I don't protect myself by just staying clear of these crazy types I'm setting myself up for another living wreck of a existence. The fact that a person you love and care for publically humiliates shows no grace or empathy for the r/s you had plus its immature and people see through it. Even if they go along they can see they are vindictive and probably say, hey did u see what dude put on FB... .man he is not over his r/s and what a loser. Be glad to be on ur path to recover. A sincere person doesn't create this much drama. A needy person does. Good luck :)

You're welcome, Ridingthewaves.  Glad to be of any help.  It is not an easy dynamic to have to deal with.  I sure wish a cup of chamomile tea would solve my relationship problems... .

You guys were right, he just emailed me and asked me if I would like to talk

Don't do it! It sounds like he is needing some supply. He will likely sound really great and suck you in and before you know it things are right back where they were. I have repeated this pattern with my lover several times. I am not talking to him right now and want to be done with it all. I am not sure what to do because I do feel drawn to him for some weird reason. I am trying to figure out what the draw is so I can stop it. I want to be able to walk away from him and never look back.

Hey ridingthewaves.  This sounds like a dangerous proposition to even re-engage with him.  Are you sure you want to go down this toxic road with him again?

I know, dangerous proposition... .I feel like I want to cry and throw up at the same time... .throw up from nerves and agitation... .I am feeling like I 3 years old right now :-( ... .and these this fear feeling again :-(

   

If you are not comfortable, then don't talk to him. Those feelings that you are having are there for a reason. They are alarm bells. Listen to them.

Going for a walk to clear my head. Thank you for the hugs. This is sure a testing time :-(

Hey Ridingthewaves.  When you pass the test you will be stronger and better for it.  Take control of your destiny by not giving into his control over you.

I'm sorry, waves, I know that's nerve-wracking! 

Regarding the title question, I believe one can definitely have BPD and ASPD at the same time.  To some extent, it seems like by default when a pwBPD goes into the hate phase there will be strong flashes of ASPD.  (Although the ASPD might also rear its head at other times.).  Our MC though my ex-fiancee was co-morbid BPD and ASPD. 

Interesting Tim. In some ways if there is some split personality type thing going on, it would make sense that each personality has its own diagnosis... .and I really mean that. Not all multiples are as extreme cases as sybil, we all have some fragments in our psyche, inner child being one for example... .the just seems to have these so much more defined. Its like interacting with a broken mirror and you never know which fragment is going to be reflecting back at you. And some fragments are very angry and nasty. Like I can do this to you because I feel hurt and never mind if you did it or not. I guess that's the feelings are facts part.

Schema therapy (Jeffrey Young) postulates this very thing - describes the vulnerable child mode, the impulsive child mode, the angry child mode, the detached protector, and the punitive parent - among others.  I saw these ^ 5 in my ex.

Not being able to comprehend that is what caused me the most pain. To heal... .it's all about acceptance. Acceptance of who they "actually" are... .not who they portrayed themselves to be.

My thoughts differ about this "acceptance" stage.

Acceptance should only be focused on forgiving yourself - not your partner. 

They are completely responsible for their actions, and should be held accountable in the end.

BPD is not a disease, it is an emotional disorder.

If it were a disease, and perpetual cheating / infidelity was a root characteristic, then every person with BPD would be doing this.  However, not all sufferers of BPD cheat.  Thus, it is a choice. Regardless of the reason for doing so.

My ex no longer gets a free pass from me.  i forgave her many times for actions unbecoming.  She promised to focus on us, yet her actions dictated otherwise.  She made conscious choices - she knew what she was doing. And in the end, she accepts it, rather than doing something to help herself.  It is far easier to wreck other people's emotions than it is to even attempt to fix herself.

My thoughts differ about this "acceptance" stage.

Acceptance should only be focused on forgiving yourself - not your partner.  

They are completely responsible for their actions, and should be held accountable in the end.

BPD is not a disease, it is a personality disorder.

If it were a disease, and perpetual cheating / infidelity was a root characteristic, then every person with BPD would be doing this.  However, not all sufferers of BPD cheat.  Thus, it is a choice. Regardless of the reason for doing so.

My ex no longer gets a free pass from me.  i forgave her many times for actions unbecoming.  She promised to focus on us, yet her actions dictated otherwise.  She made conscious choices - she knew what she was doing. And in the end, she accepts it, rather than doing something to help herself.  It is far easier to wreck other people's emotions than it is to even attempt to fix herself.

When u say she promised to focus on us did u? Or was she causing circular arguing during her claim she wanted you to work on us. The reason I ask is because PwBpd say these types of arguments claiming and blaming yet thier the ones causing the chaos of the us. I cleaned house when it wasn't good enough, I gave space when she demanded I was smothering, I stayed calm during her tantrums , I waited for her to want to have a calm conversation that wasn't all about her demands , I stayed there and just watched her go over problems and provoke negative arguments ... .I can go on and on. The point is she also said she was willing to work on us? How ? Who works on us like this? It's their lie to keep the blame on you. Trust me if she sat w me and was calm and said Hun I really think I want to figure out how we can work on this and I care about us well that would have been the ticket. Well if I told you her insane way of trying... .I knew that her compassion for our lives was nil and void. They are not the types to accept wrong that would ignite thier Shame and guilt. Humility isn't one of thier qualities . It's best to try to forgive them someday and move on

I think that you misunderstood me. I did not mention the word forgiveness in my post. I do not and can not forgive my ex for her actions and her lies. There is no admission or repentance on her part. NONE.  So she will get no forgiveness from me. ... and... .I will not forgive her for "my ask" either., like all the healing gurus say I must. That is BS in my book for this particular circumstance. My point was that I have had to work hard at clearly see who she actually is... .and accept that truth. It makes NC really easy. I will not breath or type a word to her in this life again... .no matter how she behaves.  Also, I HAVE worked very hard at forgiving myself For ever getting involved with her from day one an also for freely giving my trust to someone who clearly showed me from day one that she was not worthy of my love or tust... .Yet I gave it freely. I do not regret that good part of myself, though... .and I have forgiven myself for making a very poor choice of a person to go "All In" with. You live... .you learn, hopefully. LOL!

My short answer to your post, absolutely!  

I firmly believe psychological research will publish much more of their findings outlining the ultimate…"chronic emptiness" that is the common thread in three personality disorders.  The reality is, diagnosing psychologists are experts in their field but are only human at the end of the day, and often cannot see into the daily lives of these persons as we, their loved/damaged ones have.  An ASPD (Psychopath/Sociopath) is extraordinarily skilled at demonstrating what appear to be sincere emotions and gestures of compassion.  There are many disordered persons who have escaped the truth of their own horror and left medical offices with the diagnosis of "BPD".  And beyond that, any honest psychologist will speak of how many persons are incorrectly diagnosed/charted on paper - with Bipolar Disorder, just so they can receive treatment and get their treatment paid for…but these persons are quite literally suffering from a Personality Disorder…that health insurance will NOT pay for as it is deemed "untreatable."    I think that's pretty scary for persons who genuinely suffer from Bipolar Disorder and will absolutely benefit from treatments available. 

Currently the statistic is 4 out of 100 persons is without conscience.  They walk among us and only a small percentage commit the horrors we see in the media.  Imagine if all the persons who never make it into a physician's office, whose spouse or family member never make it in to complain about the cruelty they are subjected to.  This is a reality that needs to be a bigger part of our social conversation.  Each day I am on this site and come across certain stories, I cannot help but wonder who may actually be incorrectly resting in the belief that they are recovering from an encounter with a BPD, when they really may have escaped a Socio/Psychopath.

There are dozens upon dozens of professional researchers and psychological profilers who go to great lengths to explain that there is comorbidity  - and then indeed a spectrum with the following 3 personality disorders that can range quite a bit in "danger and callousness":

BPD, NPD, ASPD "Psychopath/Sociopath"

I did not know what I know today.  The clarity of that knowledge has brought me incredible peace in the midst of unrelenting trauma.

I now know that my mother is a Borderline who would have never intentionally harmed anyone emotionally or physically, but most often made incredibly selfish decisions based on her own inability to process her emotions.  There is no doubt she was emotionally cruel to anyone who got close to her.  I suffered the worst, but I am determined to find a way to use the experience to make me a stronger person, more valuable to humanity as a result.  I was forced into the roll of her parent long before I ever knew.  She did the best she could with the tools that she was given in life and it has taken me nearly a lifetime to move past the anger of it all and into acceptance and forgiveness.  Today I cry at her bedside (knowing that she cannot understand my tears) as this chapter will soon come to an end since her life is near its end.  My mother's childhood and family dynamics reads like a horror movie I am grateful to not have experienced…and also eternally grateful to the beautiful BPD mom who did her very best to keep me safe and try to instill independent strength and good choices into my upbringing.

Many BPDs fall somewhere along the spectrum of 'incredibly difficult' to 'obscenely dangerous'.  After the fallout with my ex, I learned that he not only met all of the BPD criteria, but years of his behavior extended far beyond that list…and now I rest peacefully knowing that my exH was a master at demonstrating all the emotions and words that I was POSITIVE were genuine.  How ironic that I've had a front-row seat in life to two people who had EXTREME difficulty with emotions.  My mother HAD emotions, my ex FAKED emotions.  But both these people in my life were so similar in their demonstration  of emotions.  So make no mistake, an ASPD will definitely demonstrate what appear to be genuine emotions.  There is no doubt that both BPD and ASPD have brain dysfunctions where emotional functions are…broken.  

My ex was and always will be a fraud.  He is a Psychopath and as Martha Stout would say, won me over with one of the most obvious and universal signs of a dangerous personality…ploys for my sympathy.  I used to think my situation might be unique.  As you can tell from this site, we are the walking wounded and we are definitely not alone.  My mother seemed to play on my sympathy since the moment she realized what a naturally child I was who only wanted to keep mommy from raging.  Little did I know my compliance to such a way of life was training for my soul to nearly be deteriorated by someone who exhibited such similar characteristics that kept me comfortably uncomfortable.

Good insight Hope, in a nut shell they are among us and these types don't give one bit of care for what they do when they harm others. Still forgive them just steer clear when u are aware of them from here on out . The forgiveness is really for your peace of mind. That's my thought. Not a overnight matter but try is my way I don't want to live w resentment. Forgive but never forget

First, thanks for sharing your BPD-encounter stories.  I like your attitude that you would like to help humanity by sharing your experiences here.  I feel the same.

Second, regarding your quote above, I think I was delusional in squaring my BPDex-fiancee solely into the BPD camp.  Our MC woke me up by saying, "[Tim300], this is not just BPD, she is a sociopath, but please do not tell anyone that you heard this from me."  I think BPD was slightly easier for me to swallow, and that I was so deep in the fog that only a neutral third party like an MC could really hit home the ASPD realization for me.  Almost 5 months out of the r/s this ASPD realization is still difficult for me to swallow.  In any event, it does seem to me like on the tail end of any BPD relationship, ASPD behavior is likely to be present.  

Yes I think BPD is a kind way to label this but I know the last month I was w my ex I told her her traits were similar to a sociopath ... .She didn't like it. I wasn't trying to be mean I was hoping shed see this as a serious situation at hand ? But instead she went fully in more vindictive and insane behavior towards me. But believe me she told others differently ... .The Funny thing is I'm done defending myself. I know what she has done and she can blame me until the end of time. I don't live her lie

Thank you for all the feedback and comments on the BPD/Narc/Socio spectrum ... .the broken mirror psyche is the one that fit my situation best (have done a lot of thinking since I first posted this, big processing week for me). I think he literally has a broken mirror psyche, with lots of different pieces. One of these pieces is a sociopath. And its the most hidden. He also has a vulnerable part. And a narcissist part. And a normal high and conscious part. And he has a fake self too, that he uses to manipulate with. And the whole ensemble behaves mostly in a BPD way, activated by intimacy and such. I think he can love, but its an intermittent job. As these other parts take over, especially when under stress. or when they see opportunity. That would be the darker side.

I did end up having the conversation. He was in his sane part. But luckily, I was in a very conscious place when I engaged, I actually asked for a specific time for our video/call and I meditated for several hours prior to talking. I also decided that my goal for the conversation was peace and closure. Not getting back together, not fighting, not slamming doors. I just wanted peace and a way to pave the way to maybe being friends some years in the future. I am very close to his son, as I was preparing to be his step-mom. We have tons of communal friends and even our works overlap. And despite the dysfunction, he has been one of the biggest loves of my life. He may have faked it or maneuvered it, but my love was real. I decided I wanted a closure that allowed for the paving of the way of are more serene and peaceful future. I was lucky that he was in his sane self. And we managed to have a very loving conversation, which was however all about moving on. he did not seem to want to get back together either, but some thing about the whole thing was eating at him also. He is in many ways very much in denial of the behaviors and the motivations behind his behaviors. I heard a lot of rationalizations. But he also apologized for hurting me. Still does not understand how he sabotaged the relationship a gazillion times. he did not own up to the fact that maybe cheating and lying and vengeful silent treatments and impulsive life changing decisions may have made it impossible for things to be ok. But he did say he is bad at relationships and selfish. I told him one last time my truth, then I decided to let it go. I told him, look... .I am letting you off the hook. What is, is. Lets just be in peace from here on. Some more talking after that, after which I was tearing up so bad I had to go. I have been crying buckets since last night, but I feel cleansed. Now I can go close the door. End of a major chapter of my life. And in many ways proud of how I handled it.

I am also not naive. I know that a month from now something may set him off and we may have a very different set of circumstances. And I am also under no illusion that I know the whole truth. But I know my truth. I loved a very complicated and at times very destructive man. And now it is done.

I also now know more about borderlines and narcissists and sociopaths than I ever cared to know. Maybe we all get to do something with this knowledge as Hope and Tim said. About the dark side of the human condition. And the havoc it can create in people's lives. I also know that this has taken me to see my own fragmented parts. I was raised by a violent now in hindsight probably also BPD stepfather, who almost killed me when I was five years old in a fit of rage, by pushing my head underwater in the bathroom sink. Like my own waterboarding torture. He was a highly volatile immature man that picked fights with a 5 year old, like she was a schoolyard playmate. I had done a lot of therapy in my 20s to get over all the PTSD that I had from having lived for 15 year was this volatile tyrant. But, this relationship grabbed a hold at whatever I had left, all of that abandonment and I want daddy to love me crap. And hit in all the places in which I was still broken. I am feeling that I almost on the other side of it all. Some more work to do on my own, but the cracks inside me a shifting, if that makes sense.

One of the things I have noticed about this board. Everybody on here is very conscious. The advice and thinking you guys do is better than that of many therapists. Maybe dating a borderline or a sociopath is an advanced class in psychological learning. We get to the other side of this broken, but somehow there is also a path to great wholeness in this recovery process. I want to thank you all for your insights and support.

Just read the DSM for ASPD. My exgf ticks 4 out of 7 of the criteria and only 3 are needed. She also ticks 7 out of 9 for BPD.

I will have to see how she does with NPD.

This adds more weight to my thinking that they need to do something that combines all the criteria.

Ridingthewaves: You're welcome.  Glad to be of any help.  This is an incredibly supportive board.  It is a real advanced life lessons class in BPD that enables us to provide the good advice and insights that we do.  Wisdom usually comes at the cost of much pain. 

Sounds like you handled yourself and the conversation you had with your ex in a very classy and respectful manner with open and clear communication.  This makes for a proper closure for you both.  For this you should hold your head high.

Since we are not here to diagnose and heal our ex-partners, does it matter if they are persons with BPD, NPD, HPD or ASPD? I don't know if my so called "uBPDexgf" really is a pwBPD, a narcissist or a psychopath. The only thing I know for sure is, that I was in an abusive relationship with a woman who has lots of Cluster-B-traits.

I googled for answers after the very cruel and unexpected end of this relationship. And the first answer I found was BPD - the love bombing and idealisation in the beginning of the relationship, all that talk about abusive ex-partners, the push/pull-behaviour, manipulation, lies, drama and chaos... .BPD was THE answer. But it was not the only answer, it was just the first answer I came across.

Maybe my ex is a pwBPD, maybe she is a psychopath - I don't know. I can't read her mind, I only know what happened to me. I can see all the typical patterns of a Cluster-B-Relationship, but I can't tell which flavour of Cluster-B my ex is.   

For some, it seems like understanding which PDs were in play or which dominated might be useful in processing what has happened and learning how to better spot people with these traits going forward, or even how to proceed with LC or NC.   

yes, and also some are more dangerous than others, so its also about understanding how dangerous the person one is dealing with is. I know that for me at some point I had to come to terms that the person I thought was sweet and in love, was also someone that could be also at times psychologically very cunning, devious and dangerous.

All this time I never looked up cluster b pd?

So is this a type w all disorders traits. Mine had many of all traits ... .,

But she'd swear it was ALL me she never acted this way until she met me.

This type of abuse to place on someone is where it takes so long to heal

I lived with this, too... .but I did not know it.  It has taken me a long time to actually understand and accept the truth about who this person actually was. Their was such a cold cruelty to the way that she treated me at the ending of the relationship... .and the way she has acted since then. It's quite disturbing to have lived through this.

I totally hear you infared ... .very disturbing indeed.

I agree with you. I still try to figure out myself which PD my ex really has. But I think it's nearly impossible if you are dealing with a high functional disordered personality.

I agree wholeheartedly.  It is the light that I cling to in this most unusual darkness.  I cannot imagine where my soul would be without the power behind the knowledge about these disordered minds.

I don't know if they can be diagnosed as both sociopath and BPD but my counselor did tell me that my husband has a lot of sociopathic characteristics.  He  was diagnosed as BPD/narcissist.  My counselor told me that sociopaths tend to absorb other people's personality traits which is what my husband does all the time but I think N's sometimes do that as well.  He's like a sponge and I always knew when he had been hanging around a different person.  He would instantly want their clothing, cell phone, shoes, sunglasses, car, etc... . 

I know how you feel though ( dirty and violated) and I've experienced the same reaction to both  my husband and my NPD/BPD mother.  My counselor and I discussed this in depth because my disgust and aversion to them seemed to come on very instantly.  She told me that my reaction was a sign that I'm getting healthier and stronger and that basically, I was just so fed up and disgusted with both of them and had no desire to interact with those types of people anymore. As soon as I decided to leave my husband, I developed such an aversion to these types of life-destroying people.  Here's something that I read on DailyOm that I found to be helpful:

Combating Emotional Vampires:

Relationships are always an energy exchange. To stay feeling our best, we must ask ourselves: Who gives us energy? Who saps it? It’s important to be surrounded by supportive, heart-centered people who make us feel safe and secure. It’s equally important to pinpoint the emotional vampires, who, whether they intend to or not, leech our energy.

To protect your sensitivity, it’s imperative to name and combat these emotional vampires. They’re everywhere: coworkers, neighbors, family, and friends. In Energy Psychiatry I’ve treated a revolving door of patients who’ve been hard-hit by drainers–truly a mental health epidemic that conventional medicine doesn’t see. I’m horrified by how many of these “emotionally walking wounded” (ordinarily perceptive, intelligent individuals) have become resigned to chronic anxiety or depression. Why the blind spot? Most of us haven’t been educated about draining people or how to emancipate ourselves from their clutches, requisite social skills for everyone desiring freedom. Emotional draining is a touchy subject. We don’t know how to tactfully address our needs without alienating others. The result: We get tongue-tied, or destructively passive. We ignore the SOS from our gut that screams, “Beware!” Or, quaking in our boots, we’re so afraid of the faux pas of appearing “impolite” that w! e become martyrs in lieu of being respectfully assertive. We don’t speak out because we don’t want to be seen as “difficult” or uncaring.

Vampires do more than drain our physical energy. The super-malignant ones can make you believe you’re an unworthy, unlovable wretch who doesn’t deserve better. The subtler species inflict damage that’s more of a slow burn. Smaller digs here and there can make you feel bad about yourself such as, “Dear, I see you’ve put on a few pounds” or “It’s not lady-like to interrupt.” In a flash, they’ve zapped you by prodding areas of shaky self-worth.

This is my credo for vampires: Their antics are unacceptable; you must develop a successful plan for coping with them. I deeply believe in the merciful message of The Lord’s Prayer to “forgive people their trespasses,” but I’m also a proponent of preventing the unconscious or mean-spirited from trespassing against us. Taking a stand against draining people is a form of self-care and canny communication that you must practice to give your freedom legs.

What turns someone into an emotional vampire? First, a psychological reason: children often reflexively mimic their parents’ most unflattering traits. A self-absorbed father can turn you into a self-absorbed son. Early modeling has impact. Studies of Holocaust survivors reveal that many became abusive parents themselves. The second explanation involves subtle energy. I’ve observed that childhood trauma–mistreatment, loss, parental alcoholism, illness–can weaken a person’s energy field. This energy leakage may condition those with such early wounds to draw on the vitality of others to compensate; it’s not something most are aware of. Nevertheless, the effects can be extreme. Visualize an octopus-like tendril extending from their energy field and glomming onto yours. Your intuition may register this as sadness, anger, fatigue, or a cloying, squirrelly feeling. The degree of mood change or physical reaction may vary. A vampire’s effects can stun like a sonic blast or make you! slowly wilt. But it’s the rare drainer that sets out to purposely enervate you. The majority act unconsciously, oblivious to being an emotional drain.

Let me tell you the secret of how a vampire operates so you can outsmart one. A vampire goes in for the kill by stirring up your emotions. Pushing your buttons throws you off center, which renders you easier to drain. Of all the emotional types, empaths are often the most devastated. However, certain emotional states increase everyone’s vulnerability. I myself am most susceptible to emotional vampires when I feel desperate, tired, or disempowered. Here are some others:

• Low self-esteem

• Depression

• A victim mentality

• Fear of asserting yourself

• Addiction to people-pleasing

When encountering emotional vampires, see what you can learn too. It’s your choice. You can simply feel tortured, resentful, and impotent. Or, as I try to do, ask yourself, “How can this interchange help me grow?” Every nanosecond of life, good, bad, or indifferent, is a chance to become emotionally freer, enlarge the heart. If we’re to have any hope of breaking war-mongering patterns, we must each play a part. As freedom fighters, strive to view vampires as opportunities to enlist your highest self and not be a sucker for negativity. Then you’ll leave smelling like a rose, even with Major-League Draculas.