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Well.  Got off a bit early yesterday.  Went to sell her parents cars for her sister since thst is my business.  She was upset I didn't take off earlier.  I knew it was trouble but I let her know to watch spending because I need to raise 2600 by end of week to pay bills.  I am scared and try not to communicate much with her.  She had woken me up in middle of night a couple of nights ago with great idea for art project.  I hadn't mentioned it since cause she didn't and it was very emotional for her so didn't know if I should.  She got mad at me for it this morning.  She told me to do what I wanted to do today but I don't have any clean clothes so I offered to do laundry which she rejected.  Kids have nothing too.  She started verbally cursing and blaming me for hurting her and kids.  I finally told her to stop bringing kids into this and blaming me for their unhappiness and take some responsibility for her part.  She pushed me into wall scratched my face and threatened me.  Then begged me not to call police.  I left.  She told me to never call nor come back.  Get my own things clothes etc.

Sorry to hear it. You acted reasonably. Even if you don't file a complaint, you could always put it on record with the police for your future safety and for the benefit of the kids. Show them the bruise. I think you should have a tape recorder too. Not to hurt her, just to protect yourself and protect the kids if anything bad ever comes up. I'm sorry that this happened. You did a good job of standing your ground and maintaining your boundaries about what you will talk about. I hope you do something relaxing today or at least get some work done or something productive. Be good to yourself. At least you didn't say anything bad to her that you will regret or feel bad about.

no bruise... it didnt really hurt or anything...

she just keeps arguing that i am not loving or caring that that our life is stagnant

i am making more now than 5 years ago.  i am working less.  i am constantly wanting to know what i can do to help.  she herself and therapist has said she is abusive, and does not contribute to the family at all now, but i am the problem?

i am the one not caring?  I am asking what i can do... she is getting mad at me cause things i do in my sleep.  i woke up 4 times last night when she did getting her stuff and doing stuff and she said one time i grabbed her hand and told her to lay down... i was sleeping im sorry it was bad but what am i to do...

i dont say the things she says she thinks i think but she says what i think she believes. 

this is bad... very bad.

What are you going to do about your suffering?

Do nothing and hope your suffering will evaporate into thin are, and you and her will have the best life ever .

Or Do something about your suffering.

What are you going to do ?

What are you going to do?

I echo OnceConfused.

When are you going to stop trying to please someone that will not be pleased?  When are you going to start taking care of yourself?  When will you stop living your life by your wife's commands, whims and moods?  When will you realize that your value is not based on your wife's opinion?

You can not change your wife only she can change her.  What you can change is yourself.

What are you going to change?

What are you going to do?

What are you going to do for YOU?

I accept that i cannot change her.

The part I have a hard time accepting is that I am correct and fair and not what she describes me as to a degree.  I know I am not all bad, but I do not want to harm her unfairly.  I just do not know what is wrong to a degree

This is all exacerbated because she is my first and only relationship.  I do not know how a normal relationship is or what to be expected. 

now she is saying she has to go to back to back therapies at a charge of $250 a session which insurance will not cover back to back sessions because she says otherwise it does nto benefit her.  At same time, I have not seen any of that from Linehan on DBT therapy.  She also refused to ask for receipts.

She then is just mean and so I told her since I am forced otu of my house she is responsible now for herself.  She is blowing up my phone now.

Disengage for now.  Turn off the phone/forward to voicemail.  Create some space for yourself to think and to work.  It is okay to do that.  Do it for you.  |iiii

Agreed, don't answer.  Every single time you have answered, it has made things worse even if it started nice.  I could go back and count your posts where you finally took the call and she lured you into an argument, made a threat, or got you to say something you regretted. 

"I know I am not all bad, but I do not want to harm her unfairly." Well, don't call her a name or do anything out of revenge.  You are simply protecting yourself and stating fair boundaries.

"This is all exacerbated because she is my first and only relationship.  I do not know how a normal relationship is or what to be expected."

I was like that too.  I always heard relationships were compromise, etc.  But it's clear if she makes you choose between things you care about, or wants you to give up something you need, want or love, that is wrong. 

"now she is saying she has to go to back to back therapies at a charge of $250 a session which insurance will not cover back to back sessions because she says otherwise it does nto benefit her."

tell her you'd like to get a note from her doctor saying this, if she wants you to pay. say it will help with insurance. it makes no sense that she wouldn't ask for receipts, either. one session is fine. asking for receipts is a legitimate boundary and one you should stick to above all else. how else will you pay?

you have spoken to the doc before so if you have any doubt, you can ask the doc if she won't give receipts. that's b.s., i'm guessing.

Doubling the DBT doesn't seem like it will change things, if one session hasn't helped. By now her doc should have gotten her to do more positive behaviors. She may just take your money and not go. Set a reasonable boundary - say you need to come to one to see how it goes, or just refuse until you have more money or until she pays or something else. Always push the responsibility back to her... .and don't commit to anything long term.  It's reasonable to say you'll agree one time and see how things go.  Or just say you want to hold off for now - don't promise things you'll regret. You often get cowed into paying for stuff for her and it doens't help.

As long as you are separated, you can simply tell her that anything your insurance doesn't pay will be her responsibility.

It is absolutely ludicrous to think that a reputable therapist refuses to provide receipts.  There is something really, really fishy about that story.

I'm sorry your going through this hurthusband. I can relate. I didn't know what a healthy r/s was either and I put up with  a lot of toxic and bad behaviors for several years because I thought this was what a loving r/s was. Thankfully there's a ton of help from the community and resources here. I recall my first session with a P after several MC counselors and she said I kept worrying about her and not my needs. That opened my eyes.

Have you brought the subject up with your T?

Here's a handy questionnaire and guide. Some characteristics are trust, respect, support, honesty, accountability, shared responsibility.



So, Is Your Relationship Healthy?

A. Can you say what you like or admire about your partner?

B. Is your partner glad that you have other friends?

C. Is your partner happy about your accomplishments and ambitions?

D. Does your partner ask for and respect your opinions?

E. Does she/he really listen to you?

F. Can she/he talk about her/his feelings?

G. Does your partner have a good relationship with her/his family?

H. Does she/he have good friends?

I. Does she/he have interests besides you?

J. Does she/he take responsibility for her/his actions and not blame others for her/his failures?

K. Does your partner respect your right to make decisions that affect your own life?

L. Are you and your partner friends? Best friends?

If you answered most of these questions with a yes, you probably are not in a relationship that is likely to become abusive. If you answered no to some or most of these questions you may be in an abusive relationship, please continue with the next set of questions.

Characteristics of Healthy Relationships (https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a115.htm)




A lot of great advice  |iiii

Good boundaries; anything your insurance doesn't cover your not going to pay; she's an adult capable of taking care if herself, don't take the bait and turn off the phone and let the messages go to voicemail.

Your seperated a good time to take care of you  |iiii

How does this sound like hurthusband?

Is it a system you can put in place to cope and give yourself space? I think you need to give yourself a lot of TLC   You deserve it for yourself.

If not, why?

It's a terrible thing to be hurt by someone you love. To constantly hear that you aren't making the grade no matter how hard you've been trying. Hanging onto a person who is constantly destabilized gave me the wobbles too. I think that's where detachment makes a difference for me when I can do it. I have to focus on trying not to hold onto him when he is melting down because I spin out of control too.   

I realised part of walking on eggshells for me was constantly asking for permission for things I had a right to to avoid an argument and listening to my husbands definitions of me. All the 'You're too... .You're not... .You should... .If you just... .I wouldn't X, if you didn't Y' are his opinion and his feelings that stem from those beliefs matter but they can't define me anymore. Only I have a right to do that. All I can do is acknowledge how he feels thinking they are true. Molding myself to not be what he said I was didn't stop the accusations.

take care of yourself

Good list, Mutt.

Hurthusband, it occurred to me that one resource you haven't dealt with yet (maybe) is a local domestic violence counselor or calling a hotline. Maybe someone in your local county court who deals with DV could point you toward a counselor who may have suggestions, without you having to officially report anything. (Not sure it would help, just trying to think.)

In any case, separating yourself for a bit and not getting sucked into the arguments and not responding to the calls is a good thing.  You already sound healthier, and deep down, your wife and the kids need you to be healthy.  Save the messages. Do it so that you can be around to help the kids in the future, in case you get falsely accused of anything.  Send a long email to yourself about what happened. I hope you can work all this out, but should it end in a split someday, I want you to have the chance to be in these kids' lives if you want to fight for that. You may be the best person to take care of them and I want you to have the records if you do want to fight to legally be in their lives.

asked myself those questions listed and about half are yes and half no

I am tired... been icing so literally been living at the office.  need a shower...

she is just so miserable.  she has given up on us for most part.  Depression really creeping in at this point

I have not called a domestic abuse hotline.  Its just not THAT severe and I know I will not do anything. 

She is horribly hurting too.  Not leaving bed.  Everything just seems at standstill

What are things you do for self care?

Can you give the abuse hotline a call? They are experts and it's a good idea to talk to someone live and get a professional opinion.

In a normal relationship, there is NO abuse. Not half yes, half no.

Hurthusband:

I have followed  your posts for awhile now. I believe your suffering is caused NOT by her, but really by you, by your inaction, by you acquiescing to her rage & her demand.

She is who she is, so again my advice to  you is:

What are you going to do?

What is the exit strategy or the staying strategy?

I know you are tired and feel pushed down. But you have to get up and fight.

Take the first step, my friend.

some of it is... sacrifice myself to help her and the kids...

i cannot bring myself to hurt them all more to save myself.  even if its fair thing to do and she brought this on herself

Then you will continue to live the way you have which is something none of us want to see.  We are all fighting for you... .we need you to fight for you.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

HurtHusband, I think you are confused - setting boundaries is NOT hurting her or them.  In fact, it helps everyone, if you set the right ones.  You are the most logical and rational person in their lives now, so you need to be healthy and sane and (hopefully occasionally) happy and relaxed.  You deserve it, but you need to do it so you can stay healthy.

For example, she has said over and over you should quit your job.  You wisely have resisted this.  If you had quit, it REALLY would have hurt her because then you are not able to pay for the things you all need.  So following her demands does not help her.

If you sit at work and take her calls and get baited into arguments and can't work or function, that hurts her too.  Avoid the angry calls.  Be firm.

Refusing to talk to her about your mom, or about work, helps all of you because it means your mom gets to stay as a resource for you, and you are a resource for your wife and the kids.

You don't want to divorce her, so I am not advocating for that.  I am advocating for keeping her cruelty at bay so you can function and feel normal.  I think it's important to reach out, get help, and not accept any times she tries to hurt you, physically or mentally, whether it's calling you 40x at work, or asking you to do something stupid like quit your job or avoid your own mother.

Keeping yourself healthy and sane is something that benefits them.  So when people ask you to focus on yourself, it's not necessarily at her expense.  She isn't of sound mind so she needs you to do things that are rational, because she can't.  One rational thing is to not keep accepting nutty calls or demands.  Especially when you know they don't make sense.  A $250 psych session without asking for a receipt?  Not rational.

If she is a physical danger, not getting out of bed, not taking care of the kids, etc., then she is a danger to herself and others, and maybe someone should force her into the right treatment.  Maybe someone should step in to help you.  If things get too bad, reach out and get help.  It will be such a relief to have someone else involved besides just you.

Calling a hotline is free and can't hurt.

I used to do the same thing over and over expecting different results for 8 years. Crazy making behaviors.

Nothing changes without change.


|iiii

well... wife let me go home to get my stuff.  when i got there she was gone and told me to leave when she called and i was emotional at seeing the kids.

She then told me to leave and get out.  She was mean i felt.  She says i hung up on her as she was crying which i did because she started the whole thing saying how horrible she was feeling and i when i trying to empathize by saying i know you are feeling horrible she stated i have no clue and it would be the whole road of how i have no clue...

anyways. her son called me today and said he couldnt handle her verbal abuse.  i told him he should call his aunt and he asked id id not let mom know.

so when she demanding i leave... i told her this is it and i am tired of all of this.  iwas yelling some and told her i would not allow her to hurt the kids if she ever did and left.  She then called her sister and said her sister came over with a gun and neighbors were panicked because seh said i said i was going to kidnap the kids in order to protect them or something like that...   i went back just to drop off her anniversary gift at door and she called me about 45 times i told her it was harrassment and not to contact me.  she wanted the present gone so i went to get it

she then calls me saying she is alone... and crying and i tell her i am concerned if i try and sympathize she will just get mean and trap me again with this cyclical talk

she then goes in how she cannot be with me cause some of the things... she went back to how i believed my mother over her and the kids over my mother saying she touched them at my grandfathers funeral and the kids and her saying she did not.  both parties feel they were ignored by the other.  honestly, i dont ___ing care about that.  im tired of it.  my mother isnt pressing it.  wife though says because i still work there i picked moms side and thats why i have no place to live...

so im back to thinking that maybe i should have quit... .on other hand then how to support self.  am i just refusing to deal with that issue?  i dont think my kids would lie.  maybe they didnt notice my mother, but somebody else who was not there said she mentioned it all.  that would mean she was plotting and scheming this for over 24 hours.  i just dont think my mother cared that much to try and do this.

why should it even really matter?

HH I think a lot of the problem is that you have difficulty defining your own needs, and are still determining your actions on her needs, simply because they are more assertive.

You are either complying with them, or defending yourself against them. Either way they are central to determining your actions. Your own needs are not even allowed to get on the stage, and hence have little influence on your actions.

Until you get her needs off center stage and replace them with yours things will never be cohesive in a positive way. As your actions are being driven by instability.

What is going to happen tomorrow/next week/next month? ... .you dont know because that still depends on what she does, or says... This is the problem.

You are responding to heckling rather than writing the script

I have alot of guilt and extreme distrust in myself as to what reality is i suppose.  I want to do what is right, but I do not want to do what is selfish.  The hard part is trying to trust myself to know that and know my reality is sane.

I know that I mainly just want stabilty and my wife and kids as my family.  I do not want to hurt anyone else.  That is a major thing

HurtHusband.

The children are begging you for help.

Someone came to the house with a GUN.

She falsely claims you are going to kidnap the kids.

You need to get outside help or this could get worse.  No more being afraid of who finds out.  This could end with someone getting hurt and then the help will be forced upon all of you but it may be too late.

You have to stop saying you should quit your job - it is all you have left that prevents utter and complete chaos. How would anyone pay for her sick visits, mortgage, things kids need. More importantly, the children are scared enough to confide in you - and it resulted in someone coming to the house with a gun.  Your wife deep down does not want you to quit.

What happens if she claims you assaulted her, or takes the children away... .how will you have proof of anything that has happened?  I know you don't want to hurt anyone, and the best way to HELP them is to keep working, document what has happened, and notify the school or someone in authority of what is going on.

I think you should start documenting from this moment - tape record her calls, things the kid say, etc.  You don't have to use it unless it's an emergency.

This is too much for one person to handle.  Can you at least make a report to the police, and just not have them act on it?  You can do that, you know.  Tell about how she hurt you (they should take it seriously), the car incident, and others.  Unless you want to press charges, they don't have to tell.  But you will have the report if she someday makes a false claim to send you to jail.

I am not an expert and so these are my opinions but I don't want to see anyone hurt.  Please tell someone who you trust who is a professional.

hurthusband, you and your wife both are in an extreme state of denial as to her alcohol problems and depression, and your anxiety and depression.  You are so deep in it that you can't imagine any alternatives to the misery you are in.

Someone needs to stop the ever-deepening cycle.  I know you feel paralyzed in the face of her abuse, but you are the more competent partner, and it needs to be you who says, "This stops now."

Boundaries.  Documentation.  Assistance from others.

You are trying to cure a psychological cancer by apply bandaids. It will take mental surgery, painful surgery at that. Even then the results can't be guaranteed. If you continue to apply superficial remedies, and avoid the hard calls, it will get worse until something catastrophic happens.

Today she pushes you and scratches your face. This means angry dysregulation has no consequence. What happens if next time, or the time after, she has a kitchen knife in her hands and in a dysregulated state she forgets this and strikes you?

What happens if one of the kids steps in as they have had enough and she lashes out at them without thinking. They are not immune, especially as they get older. You are the target because you are there, what provocation do you think older kids are capable of?

Aggression left unchecked always escalates, you are not the only vulnerable one, it is just your turn to be the target at the moment. The disorder is not fussy who it is, just as long as someone is.

well... she is dysretulated, depressed, and drinks too much

i am depressed and high anxiety which i recognize

Did go with her to her therapist.  There therapist honestly let into her pretty good. 

since that time she has been fluctuating.  VERY kind... then mean which I am ignoring when I am around. then very kind again.  I am trying to just disengage.  Thank her for her kindness and recognize it but also explain i just cannot engage her right now

o and today is our anniversary... ugh

i feel better though at this point.  She did offer to use her money from parents death to pay down our debt regardless if we seperate since its all in my name which was kind

Let her do it! Don't back down.

Glad therapist finally got b*lls and told her to lay off you.

Yea I suppose I am.  Thanks for support so far.  Bit out of it today.  Work is crazy

I am seeing you are setting better boundaries, which is good.

Congrats on getting her therapist to see both of you twice.  You are very smart.  Good job!

I still think you have to get outside help when things go awry, rather than tiptoing and blaming yourself. As others have said, she could hurt someone, or herself.  Or the kids.

You are loving and caring but sometimes you need intervention to get things right.

Hope your weekend is great.

External advice often carries more weight than your own (in her eyes) and not as easy to dismiss. Nor does it affect you as much if she does.

Everyone needs a helping hand from time to time, there's no shame in that.

Yea for a couple of days she stayed with her grandmother feeling depressed.  Called and texted alot, but was kind.  I was a bit down too with a stomach bug.  Anyways, I had to find one of the kids who did not take the bus home and tried to hide out with his girlfriend for some extra time.  Obviously, not right, and I hunted him down because all teenagers are idiots and easy to find and figure out.  Had a talk with him calmly, and explained he would be punished, but I understand trying to be your own person as a teenager and we were not angry, but scared.  Did some chores she said I didnt need to do. 

Then Saturday came... I could sense from her texts it was coming...   She came home and pretty much everything nice I tried to say to her got a nasty comeback.  Everything the kids and I had done to help out was picked apart.  She was all about how I do not care about her again.  Anything I would say would get a negative remark, if I acted cold, it would be I do not care, if I just tried to isolate from her, I did not care.  Took a nap and things calmed some.  She got depressed though because her sister invited her to go to Chicago with her but it was to see their step/half siblings who my wife is angry at.  This infuriated my wife who felt like her sister betrayed her.  Personally it reminded me of the situation with my mother.  She wants others to cut out people that make them happy because they make her unhappy.  The place she wanted to have dinner at was closed too. So she yelled at kids then went to bed scared she would do more harm.

I got the kids together and rallied her to a dinner as a family at another place that peaked her fancy.  By end of night she was angry at me again though.  Sunday she was angry with me.  I tried to go to church and she was upset I did not let her know.  I let our son know who was awake because honestly, I did not want to be yelled at.

Apparantly he had been cutting himself so I had to have a long talk with him and wife was upset and left.  He explained its how she talks to him.  She is basically on a rampage until she has to go to stay with her grandmother for the night to take care of her which was very nice of her.  Rest of night and today has been texts on how I do not care, I do not love her, she does not feel it.  I just do not know what more to do.

She then said some flags to me.  She told me to tell the kids goodnight for her.  I asked if she wanted to speak to them cause they were awake.  She then said I was judging her for not wanting to talk to them.  I was just offering because talking to them makes them and her happy.  Not judging.

Then she says she thinks her therapist and I are ganging up on her...

I dont know

This was a good observation.


This is very serious is son in therapy?  If not he should be, he is telling you loud and clear that he is in pain and needs help.

wife keeps saying she will set up an appointment.  we got doctor lined up but it never happens...  

she is shutting down... yelling at everyone then going to sleep claiming nobody cares.  I finally told her she has to try and help herself. she is going to remain alone if she yells at everyone and does not try to go out and meet people or do something instead of sleeping.

She is dying.  I see it.  Isolating herself more and more and playing a victim.  Blaming everyone for abandoning her and while others have blame, she isnt trying to make things better or even know where to start

one of the kids said he was ready to call police over the verbal abuse.  I do not think cops can do anything about that, but its telling of situation.  She felt ashamaned last night for missing their Boy Scouts award ceremony where he fathers passing was observed...

I do not know anymore.  I tried to do it a balanced way for years.  In doing that we maintained an existance that was not growing but not falling back that far neither.  She was unhappy and i wasnt particularly happy.  I then shifted to trying it her way in which everything collapsed rapidly.  Then shifted it to trying putting everything into therapy and getting help.  Talking $36k a year in medical... things are worse.  I am about 1 month from being flat broke and tapped out.  Cards maxxed... bills not being able to be paid.  It is not for lack of a bad job neither.  I make good money.  I am not rich, but last I saw twice what median income is for my demo.  She demands then I ask for more.  At this point the only way out I see is her inheritance... .  either she takes its and helps us both out or she takes it and runs.  If she takes it and runs, I can rough it easier and build myself back up over probably 5 to 7 years. 

I see that its possible 20 years of my life was wasted on trying to help her.  She does not see it though.  She does see how she is hurting the kids though now.  That is an eye opener.  I notified her sister that she needs to talk to the kids about what is going on.  I did not want to skew any opinion, but just ask what they see as they need to be protected.

Her sister is not the best person for the job, but she is tough even if not very empathetic.

My sister went into hospital and had her appendix removed saturday... turns out it was not her appendix and still in hospital.  I am sure she will be fine, but my wife said such horrible things as

"i hope she dies, she does not deserve to live.  My parents deserved to live.  They contributed.  Your sister did nothing.  I would say her daughter would be better off without her, but then she would be stuck with your mom.  All your family deserves to die, and I dont care if you die"

I told her that was sick and she needs help.  That was extent though of me battling.  She apologized later on, but to even say that... wow...

I was trying to sleep on couch.  she said she was scared alone and to come up.  I said I cant that I am scared to be in there with her.  She did not like that and threatened some.  I went up and she got mad a little at me as i suspected.  Got me up at 4:00 am saying she was fine because apparantly she had been up she said 6 times in night and i did not wake up and ask how she was.  I sat awake for hour and half unable to sleep scared I would miss something again.   Thats why I wanted to sleep on couch...

I am so sorry you are going through this. I think you can see that you have been doing this balancing act for years and you have done your best - more than anyone could have, humanly - and in the end she doesn't get better. Running through your money and other stuff doesn't help. You have done small fixes, bought her something to satisfy her, etc., but in the end the illness returns.

You have involved some outside people now - bravo!  Keep doing that.  There are more resources to reach out to... .it has to be better than the torture you are going through, and the kids are in trouble.

The way you describe her constantly being mad at you is hard - I think you have been living in fear so long that you don't remember what it's like to be among people who aren't taking every little thing as something to start an argument over. You should not have to be afraid to breathe.

I see this last email as a very good sign because you are setting boundaries, recognizing the need to tell people on the outside, realizing that this is not a fair or normal situation, and realizing it is not your fault.

I am worried about the kids.  Wondering if you can tell the school or have the child talk to teacher or school psychologist.  You won't need to 'set up an appointment,' the kid's school can let him meet the psych pretty easily if he requests it.  (Better if it doesn't just come from you).  If he called the police, they might inform social services or something else, which may help but who knows.  If you think it is hard on you, imagine a kid with no freedom. They love their mom but are hurt by her. This can screw a child up for YEARS. You say she won't make the appointment - perhaps you can make it ASAP.  Especially if she's out of the house.  Or at least, have it dealt with thru a school counselor. This will be free and give your son time to talk.  Take your chance, don't wait.

The red flag of her saying 'tell the kids goodnight' would scare me too. It is too bad she is so sick and in such pain. I can see that deep down, the person you fell in love with is in there but that person is controlled by an illness that could hurt her and hurt all of you. I think her therapist should have her committed if she is not taking care of herself. Imagine if she was forced into treatment for 4-8 weeks and given medicine?  It might not solve all the problems but it might stabilize her.  Keep telling her shrink what is happening.  I think you should find a way to document any threats or dangers she poses so if you can, you can do something and have the proof you need.

This balancing act is too much for one person. I'm so glad she has been at her grandmother's - the house must have been calm and better for your kids and you. Can you imagine what life would like if it was this way more often?

I really wish you would talk to a crisis counselor or mobile psych team. If you see she is dying, it may be time to deal fully with this issue - she is slowly driving the kids to cut themselves etc.  That is pretty bad, Hurthusband.  It's not ok.  Aren't you glad that grandmother and sister are involved even in a minor way?  You have to get used to telling people.  You told her psych.  I think maybe involving school people may help because they can bring in others to help your son.

I know one fear of yours is never getting to see the kids again. I still think that if you document all this stuff - and have experts who may one day testify - you might be able to have some custody or visitation considering she just isn't able to care for them on her own.  I'm not saying you should get a divorce anyway, as I know you don't want to, just thinking of how you can protect yourself down the line.

In any case, some of your posts have been scary - you have been in the situation so long, you don't realize how un-normal it is.  Please keep telling people.  No one wants to have a tragedy happen - suicide of kid, your wife, or you, or an accident or assuault with a car or a gun or anything else.

she having a panic attack... I informed her what one of the kids said when she kept attacking me more and pushing and pulling.  When she told me to cancel therapy and that she isnt going that she isnt hurting the kids I let her know what they are saying...

It destroyed her.  She told me never to come back and she hates me.  She is just going to lay in bed and do nothing ever again...

I am going to go to the appointment regardless... .I am the only thing keeping her from dying at this point.  The only thing fighting for her.  If I stop, there is nothing to keep her going and protect the kids.  The kids will lose their mother.  She will stop.  I am almost bled dry from all of this... but perhaps a miracle can happen.

I know she needs extended care at this point, but I do not even have the means of getting her in anywhere anymore.  I work with the local MHMR... they do not even know what BPD is... they cannot help.  She was in their care for years and they treated her for schizophrenia and bipolar.  No therapy... just pumped her full of meds and she lied in bed sleeping for weeks on end.  Its same now but she gets up to rage at everyone...

She keeps saying I am lying.  I do not know if I am delusional at this point.  I really do not.  If I am not, she is... I know I have my point of view that will poison the truth somewhat.  I just dont know how much.  I want somebody else to step in and be the judge.  Somebody she trusts and will listen to but I just dont know of anyone. 

 "I do not know if I am delusional at this point."

You're not.

"perhaps a miracle can happen."

Do you want to take that chance?  There are better options.

"I want somebody else to step in and be the judge."

Good.  Maybe tell everything to the school.  Try the crisis hotline that members here have suggested.  I know it's not simple but there are better ways.  When she lay in bed on meds, were things calmer?  She may well have more than BPD.  It may be better than her or you or the kids getting hurt.

The kids are saying she is abusive, they are cutting themselves and begging you for help.  :)eep down, wife wants you to take a stand too.  You want someone to be the judge.   I think you need to find that person ASAP.  Someone aggressive and experienced.   I'm glad you're going to the appointment anyway.  There is too much pressure on you and you are not a mental health professional.  If this was taken out of your hands, at least partly, it would be a blessing.  Her counselor should not leave you to have this burden.  

She has now assaulted you again.  She is a danger.  She meets a standard for hospitalization.

Maybe a state NAMI person can help with referrals and ideas if local did not.

been a week since she pushed me.

She didnt show to marriage counsel and told her therapist she isnt going back.  I sat there and talked some.  Basically therapist couldnt say a whole lot without wife there, but it was what i thought

I guess just have to draw lines and defend myself at this point.

You are doing a great job. But it would take superhuman powers to solve all of it. Imagine in the future that someone gets really hurt. What would you have looked back and done differently?

Reached out more? Begged someone for help? If you think there is danger - a kid cutting himself, possible suicides, wife dying, please reach out to the right people. Crisis line, and/or at least explain situation to school even if no action taken yet. May not be best to wait until it comes to a head.

Your wife is drawing a line with not showing up to marriage counseling and saying she's not going back? It telegraphs she's not wanting to do work.

I think you have your own T? It's a good idea to have your own T and an MC. Have you made an appointment with your T or what does your T have to say about the kids? If you don't have a T have you thought about getting your own T since your wife's boundary is that she doesn't want to do marriage counseling?

Your kids are telegraphing that they need help. It sounds like since your wife didn't show up your saying your defending yourself against your wife? A way to draw a line is to become proactive rather than reactive. There are possible future events that may be regretful if it's preventable by choices that we make in the present that have influences on not only us, the kids as well.

and she called her therapist and apologized and said she would be back...

its really a jekyll and hyde thing going on now.  No real rhyme as to why jekyll comes back, but hyde can be triggered by anything

that's a pretty accurate description of BPD... .

well... she got some money in from insurance so that helps, but she was going to go out of town driving with kids for a week to friends... now she isnt.  kind of looked forward to it

well... we got along a couple of days... then she left town to go to Missouri with her kids to a friends.  The whole time she was there pretty much she was kind.  She did not respond to me much and sometimes had a down moment, but was pleasant.  She also got nearly $13k in inheritance which is just a fraction, but put it into the bank and said I could pay $5k of credit cards down since we were maxxed.  I forgot a minimum payment on one card so I put $5250.  Then 15th came around... I still had over $400 of my own money in the bank and paid two more bills that were due tommorow.  Then auto insurance i forgot about auto-debited couple of hundred (it went up from $164 i think cause of my wife's DWI.  Anyways, last day she was pissed cause bank account was down to $5900.  I also had over $2k in checks I was about to deposit so i do not see what the big deal is.  Besides... I had been footing the bill on everything for basically 12 years.  Yea she might put in 1200, but we were spending $11,500 a month.  That was all on me.

She said I was a theif and she knew it and was going to pull her money out.  Now... excuse me but, I had also been putting my inheritence money in bank to pay bills and spending my bdays doing stuff for her and kids.  As soon as she got home, she was yelling at me for coming home without calling.  I had taken care of the house and dogs, and all of this while having some new illness... Sunday woke up feeling hungover but I do not drink... by monday I was having what was diagnosed as vertigo all the time.  I saw an ENT, and he gave me excerises to help, but also have to see an opthamologist.  Its like I am drunk at all times.  I dinged a car moving it even.  Trying to work... neither here nor there

Wife picked apart me not watering plant, while I fed the dogs, I did not get a spare roll of food... etc.  Just anger.

While gone she never gave me time of day really, but was kind.  Now home she was hammering my phone at work again.  Telling me how son had last day of Spring Break and I needed to take today off to spend time with him and be a father for once.  I work less than 50 hours 6 days a week.  Its not easy schedule, but I am the sole income.  I dont know what else to do there on that.  She keeps demanding me ask for raises.

I give in and say fine.  She does not believe me.  When I get home, I make it half way up stairs when she wakes up screaming at me and accusing me of sneaking and not calling again and scaring her.  She said I opened her door and so forth, but i was not even up the stairs yet.  She let into me and I went downstairs.  She followed me demanding i leave the house.  I said I have a right to be there and I am avoiding her so please leave me be.  She kept on.  She said I have been colder lately and I said your doctor had told me that I was finally putting up boundaries and that was good

She then called me a pussy, and weak, and insinuated I was faking illness.  She said I was a bad husband and she regretting meeting me.  She called me a theif.  I snapped back that she was the thief.  She was the one few years back that charged up a Niemans card and I had collections calling me cause I had no idea.  She was the one who spent whenver and whatever without telling me.  I finally just left.  As i was leaving she came out and threw somethinga t my car that hit hard.  Turns out it was just fudge, but I went back inside.  I was going to stand my ground and not let her bully me.

I tried to just sit there as she said I was ___ty, my family was ___ty, she would have walked right past me if she saw me again like it was years ago.  On and on, she said she would keep going until I left.  She then said she was going to go to the neighbors and tell them I hit her to have me forcibly removed.  I just sat there...   Then she said that I am not a father, that those kids do not respect me and I do not spend time with them.  That she bonded more with a man in Missouri than they ever have with me.  That they love her more (which I agreed).  She pointed out I never been on a vacation with one of them which is true.  He goes with his real father and she takes them places more cause I only get off about a week vacation a year which we took other kid or just her places.  Just hammering on me about the kids.  Using the kids against me is a mega trigger.  I think it is the most cold thing another parent can do...

I walk away and she follows saying things and trying to push in after me as I try and close a door.  She then calls me week more, and I turn around and say "your parents would be ashamed of you".  Now background is her parents died 3 months ago and it shook her world.  She didnt really get along with them when alive, but she was with them every second towards the end as they were both sick.  My mother levied that same accusation on my wife few months back when my mother found out that I was kicked out of house and my wife told me she would not let me see kids ever again (they are not biologically mine, but known them since 3 and 1).  This was the worst dagger I could have said and instantly regretted it.  She left and disappeared for an hour.  I worried she might have gone to hurt herself.  I feel horrible for saying it.  I explained that her parents are proud of her and it was wrong, but it was just so hard when she is saying the things she was saying.  I say they might not be proud of what she was doing to me, which I believe, but mine wouldnt be proud of me and saying that neither...

Anyways, slept in car... pretty sure we are over.  I am concerned what will happen to her.  I am still having vertigo and feel horrible.  I feel sick over all of this.  Extreme guilt.  I am not going to kill myself but it seems like better option.  I feel like I killed her.

O she did change offer of helping me with debt which she pretty much accumulated.  The whoel thing on her money is only my money would be used for bills and hers would be used for carpet and vacations etc.  She was getting $200k and I had $60k in credit card bills, a mortgage, two cars to pay for... etc...   I had $20k in bank when I moved in with her... I was great with money.  her medical bills is biggest expense... I feel sick...

I feel she just wanted to control me.  never respected me.  She says i only hurt her, and did not care which I do soo much.  She said I never did anything while she was thoughtful and did things like buy me fudge in missouri.

So here I am... past 4 months, 2 inlaws dead, bankrupted basically with last money I had burying them, grandfather died, grandmother in icu for 2 weeks, step father kicked out of my mothers house, my father has no job and is now bankrupt losing millions, i cannot even concetrate or see or feel like i have balance, broke, no home, relationship personally with my mother ruined because of how she gets along with my wife... no friends... not that I ever had any that were reliable or that did not ask for help from me and never gave any.

My wife has no family, no job... .BPD tearing her apart... .

I apologize, but she only sees it as me being evil and not any empathy on how what she did may have lead to it.  How she did evil too.  I still did it though so I need to apologize, but apologizing verifies in her mind that I am a solely evil person and she does not recognize any wrong on her behalf.  So I dont apologize which is horrible of me, but if I do, i verify all she thinks and feels.  She believes either way that its unforgivable and its so mean it killed her and she can never recover.  She says its the worst thing ever said to her.  The only way I can see to even heal her from it is if she sees things from my perspective, and understands it was horrible and not right to say, but it was said because she was saying the most horrible things to me and so I lost it and its not true.

If she never wants to be with me, I can live with that, but I do not want her to feel that she is bad in her parents eyes, and want to die from that, and I do not want her to think I am some horrible person who would just say that to be mean and self centered.  I just wanted the pain she was causing me to stop...

How can I fix this?  How can I help her?

She says and does terrible things - but you say  one thing back and you feel so so guilty over it. It's just more of how she manipulates you. I understand you want to make amends for what you said. This has happened before and you will get the chance.

But also realize that every time you engage, you end up getting sucked into saying and doing things you regret. It's best not to. It especially seems important not to do things related to your job just because she bullies you into it. Your job is one of the few things that keeps you going.

You can write an email apologizing for that remark, revise it until you think it says what you need it to. Don't send unless you really think it's ready. Or just say it in person next time. But remember that she has said terrible terrible things to you, caused a lot of pain, and everyone is entitled to make mistakes - you are human. Normal spouses forgive things said in arguments if it's once in a while. On the whole you are a good person trying your best with a terrible situation. And you have done wonders for those kids. So try not to take it to heart.

You can't help her with problems that her 'solution' to is to attack you or blame you.

You can't fix her. You spent YEARS breaking yourself trying to do it, and she's only gotten worse.

The only person you can save is yourself.

Hurthusband:

I feel for you, hurthusband.

I think you have been asking for a long, long time - how you can help her.

I don't think you can help her. the more you ask about helping her, the deeper you sink into the abyss of despair.

I really don't understand how you can put up with all of those abuses, day after day. You must be a saint. Being a saint is your good point and also your downfall in this case.

Remember, doing the same thing will bring you the same result. So, you have to do things differently otherwise, you will have the same experience every day for the rest of your life. Is that what you want?

Everything here is from my perspective. I am sure she gives her perspective and it sounds like I am a monster.  Whose is real I do not know.

I know I do wrong... it does not matter so much to me personally if she does a million things wrong and I do one thing wrong.  I still feel I must make amends.  I do care for her, and I do not believe I can fix things for her.  If this was my 12 year old child, I would still put up with it. 

I am not sure anymore though.  My vertigo, vision, or whatever it is has me so foggy and messed up I cannot comprehend much.  I am getting tired of dealing with her which is why I am starting to say things and not hold back as much.  I am getting tired of people I deal with at my job who are jerks.  I am just getting tired of every day.

I want to be the best person I can be, and I do not want to wrong anyone and make amends for that.  Wrongs done to me, I am good at forgiving.  The problem is that it will repeat itself in a cycle.  Then I will wrong and feel I need to pay for it and take abuse.  One of the kids snapped at her that she is chasing everyone away and that if she yells at them like she did again she is going to call the police and divorce her as a parent. 

My wife has not say she would kill herself, but I would not be surprised any moment to hear she is dead. 

Personally, I am on the floor.  I cannot get up at this point.  legs broken, celing falling, and all i can do is try and hold it up.  I cannot escape it.  I need help or it collapses on us all it feels like.

Hi HH. You keep saying this is only your perspective, but just looking alone at the things she has done, it's pretty clear she doesn't make good decisions, and that she is cruel to you. Even her kids notice and suffer from the abuse. You seem resigned but you have done so many good things lately - talked to her counselor, talked to her relatives. Tried to help the kids as best you can.  It frustrates me that your T and her T haven't done more - like set their foot down and say, you and she should come in regularly, we won't charge you as much, we want to find a way so you two are not hurting every day. Maybe that would involve some separation, or just boundaries, or something. It's not healthy to live this way or have kids in jeopardy, emotionally if not physically. If you were in physical pain, doctors would manage that, so they need to manage this too.

Please don't hesitate to talk to another professional if you think they may have a new idea. I really don't want things to go too far one day and have you wishing you'd stepped out of the situation somehow or told someone else. Crisis line, school counselor, another experienced BPD person - I wish there was someone else who could help. In the meantime, keep setting the boundaries - refuse to engage in fighting or blame, just keep repeating you won't fight and it's not right to fight, or something neutral. You'll take away her power. And don't get into fights with people at work if it puts your job in jeopardy.

You really are a good person and you deserve happiness.

just really feels its sacrifice her and maybe kids to save myself and i am not really sure how to save myself at this point neither.  Bit feels like I bet all in and doomed unless we work

*mod*

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