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My divorce case had went into default. He was served and didn't file a response for 10 months. So, I didn't hire a lawyer. I had made some errors on the judgement package, and I had to re-do it. So, as I am waiting for the second judgement package to be approved and finalized, he hires a lawyer and they file a motion to set aside default. 

On his motion, there are lies as to why he didn't respond. And, I have emails from him that catch him in the lies. However, many lawyers have advised me that it is likely the judge will set aside the default, because there is a child involved. And, there were some lawyers who think that the judge will not. So, basically, it is a flip of the coin.

My husband is asking for joint physical and legal custody. This terrifies me to my core. Unsupervised visitation terrifies me. My son is so healthy and safe, mentally and physically. I know my husband has thin patience, and a 16 month not only cries but hits. My husband already yelled at the baby when he was just 4 wks old. To make matters worse, my husband is an alcoholic.  A real one. He drinks the way some smoke cigarettes. It is a compulsion.

What is in my favor:

I have emails where he is cursing and degrading me.

I have voicemails where he sounds like a serial killer.

I have timeline documentation

What is not in my favor:

When my husband drinks, he shows no physical symptoms. He just has an inner rage and paranoia. He is good at holding it until there are no witnesses.

If I say he yells, he'll say I yell. If I say he pushed me. He'll say I pushed him. If I say he drinks, he'll say I drink.

He is a pro at deflecting attention from himself.

Also, my husband drinks and drives. He has 3 DUIs and I fear he will get in an accident. However, 10 yrs ago, I had 2 DUIs in one year. I had never drove drunk since. And I haven't drank in over 2 yrs. But, you see how it can be reversed to me.

A smoking gun I may have is the fact that his mother, a nurse, illegally gets him mentally ill prescriptions from another state. One is Prozac. And, the other is Xanax. I have documentation where he admits to having been a pill addict.

So, if anyone can give me advice on how to get full legal and physical custody with supervised visitations, it will be greatly appreciated.

This is California. Fathers have a lot of rights here. And, many women go to jail for domestic violence here. So, even though I am a woman, false accusations can stick. Also, if anyone knows any lawyers here, that will help. I have a lawyer, but I am not sure she understands who I am dealing with.

I'm sure others will post soon too, sometimes my responses are more on the details and not so much the emotional impacts.

The case went into default but now you're only modifying some of the details, right?  Maybe the court will set it aside but since it could go either way don't you think it is worth it to try to counter that with your documentation?  Yes, it might not work, but then again, it might work.  Don't sell yourself or your history short.

Sure, he'll claim all sorts of stuff to get it reopened but you'll have the emails etc as proof he knew of the case, was fully aware, not confused, etc.

Be very cautious about being overly honest.  What do I mean?  Court doesn't care about you being overly fair, overly nice, overly whatever in the past.  Court is about law, case law, policies, procedures, etc.  They will often overlook huge issues and focus on technical violations.  (My ex took our son on vacation for a week without any written notice and though my lawyer said it was a slam dunk, the magistrate said she wasn't 'technically' in Contempt of Court because our old order had just ended and the new order was too new to be enforceable on the notification terms.)

Also, in court you don't want to say, "Ex did this and that, but I did some too."  You do NOT volunteer information that makes you look bad.  That would be self-sabotaging.  The same goes for how you state things in testimony, you follow your lawyer's instructions on how to respond correctly to questions.  You don't try to answer verbosely, it will too often get you into I recall my lawyer explaining why he could defend drivers arrested for DUI, he said it was up to the state to prove their case, his job was to make them do their job and perhaps get a better outcome for his client.  So your job is not to sabotage yourself and help ex and his lawyer improve or even win their case.

Your DUIs were many years ago, you were a young adult then but learned your lesson long ago.  I doubt they can be used against you.  If brought up your lawyer should object that they are so old they should be excluded.  The legal word is 'stale'.  Check with your lawyer about the legal aspects in your state and area, but in my case specific incidents that happened over 6 months prior were ignored by my court.  However, even if older incidents aren't 'actionable' now, they can be used to demonstrate a pattern of poor behaviors.

His DUIs are likely much more recent.  They would be valid concerns you should include in your defense and strategy.  By themselves they're not earth-shattering but combined with his other patterns the sum total may be impactful.

He, his mother and his lawyer know they will face a mountain of his poor behaviors, hard to overcome.  So they will do what most disordered people do, they will will try to make you look as bad as or worse than him.  That's why his mother called children's services on you, to make you look bad.   Sure, the agency may have responded, investigated and then closed the case but your ex will claim "where there's smoke, there's fire".

A large factor will be parenting history.  How much parenting has he done?  If not much, then he doesn't have the history to seek much more.  Courts may default to a higher percentage than you feel is right but then that's why you present all your concerns to the court that his parenting be limited or even supervised.  (But be aware he'll want any supervision, if ordered, done by an enabler such as his mother.)

His mother is worse than he is. The way he is drunk is the way she is sober. I think she may still live in another state. But, she could have also moved back here. I hope she isn't the supervisor.

He hasn't seen his son in 11 months. If we go to custody court, it will be 12 months since he has seen his son. But, he will say that I prevented him from seeing him, which I did, because he had threatened to kill me. And I felt that if I exposed myself to him, he would do some sort of false accusation again.

So, we split up when the baby was 6 months. For 2 of the 6 months, he was in hotels drinking. So, by the time we go to court, he would have been around only 4 months out of my son's 18 months of being alive.

So, there is some advantage there. But, a lawyer even told me that courts tend to still split legal custody. And, I still have to fight for a professional supervisor.

I honestly think that the magic number is 5. I give him 5 unsupervised visits before something bad happens.

Legal custody usually has to do with major decisions.  Do try to be listed as Residential Parent for School Purposes sooner rather than later or else it might become an issue when he starts school or pre-school.  Usually things have to be extreme for a court to grant full custody to one parent, they don't want one parent to feel shut out for no good reason.  However, it's not win-or-lose on this issue, make sure you and your lawyer consider the in-between options of you having decision-making status, tie-breaker status or tie-breaker until court decides otherwise status.  That way even if he has joint custody, his impact on major issues (outright obstruction or court delays and expenses) is reduced.

That sounds fine... .a "tie-breaker" status.

Thanks for the advice, ForeverDad. I'll remember it when the time comes.

Of course, I hope it doesn't get there. Hopefully, when he knows I have the voicemails, he'll back down, due to shame.

What was the result of your custody case?

Thinking out loud, I just cannot believe a disorder like this exists. It is like the person's whole purpose is to destroy an unsuspecting person for no reason. And when there is a child involved, it is like ripping out your very heart and soul.

Sometimes telling them that you have their voicemail, copies of texts or emails, etc, does not make them wise up. Sometimes they really don't think anything is wrong with their behavior, you can only have shame if you know something was wrong. Just keep them because rational people will see things for what they are.

Hi Gloria_Patch,

It's pretty common for parents to start out with joint legal and physical custody. It has to be pretty over the top for one parent to get full legal custody right away.

If he's asking for joint legal and physical custody, and you're asking for full custody with supervised visitation, it's possible that you will end up with primary custody and joint legal. You have enough things in your case on both sides that it wouldn't be surprising if the judge just split things down the ambiguous middle.

Visitation is probably the wild card. It will depend on how credible you are in your testimony. How well documented your evidence is, and how tolerant your judge is of pro se litigants. Your ex is going to make a lot of false allegations and his L is going to run with the whole "persuasive blamer" thing. You will have to cool your jets and not react emotionally to all these accusations, which is something a lawyer could do for you. There's an article on this site called Theory of the Pattern of Blame (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271911.msg12580077#msg12580077) by Bill Eddy that describes how non-BPD people can be at a disadvantage in a court that tends to favor persuasive blaming, which pwBPD tend to do in high-conflict cases.

A judge who is very lenient with pro se litigants may cut you some slack for not filing an ex parte emergency to prevent visitation. But a judge who doesn't will take your obstruction of visitation very seriously, and may reward your ex with unsupervised without looking into the facts of the case with care.

In general, too, things that happened 10 years ago aren't of concern to courts. But if you tell the judge that your ex has DUIs, and then your ex says you do too, you're in a tough spot because you're on the defensive. A good lawyer would point out evidence of your good character, and persuasively dismiss what you did over a decade ago. There is theater in court, and then there are the facts. There isn't a whole lot of time for the facts. So when you present them, they have to be tucked into a very compelling and persuasive story. Without emotionally reacting to false accusations.

It's tough.

Rarsweet, I see your point. But, I really, really, do not like courts. They have ultimate ruling over people who are strangers. It is just scary.

Liveandlearned, I read a few of your posts on this subject. You know the process well. The thing is that the baby is only 16 months old. There is just such a danger. I hope they will see it. You have to be 100% when with a baby that age. They can reach stuff and choke.

There has to be something I can do. He is an alcoholic. This is a tragedy waiting to happen.

You have a clear goal, which is good. You want full custody and supervised visitation. Focus on your goal. Ignore him for now.

You need a strategy.

Is this thing headed straight to court or do you have some other moves to draw on before that happens? Where does mediation fit in?

Tossing out some ideas here:

Propose to the opposing L that ex gets supervised visitation right away for 2 hours each Saturday. Do all the leg work to set it up. This shows good faith effort. It also puts the ball in your ex's corner. pwBPD don't tend to like being told what to do, much less supervised. There is a good chance he won't agree. He'll need to explain why.

Propose mediation. Use it as an opportunity to see what the opposing L has planned. He/she will have to share some of what they intend to use in court, if it gets to that. You'll have to go into mediation knowing that you have a bottom line, and not let yourself get talked into anything less than supervised visitation.

Contact the highconflictinstitute.com that Bill Eddy runs (based in California) and see if there might be any pro bono lawyers who would be willing to represent you. Long shot, but why not.

If you don't have a restraining order, or documentation that your ex threatened to kill you, it's pretty much a he-said, she-said. You need to at least have the threat documented, and failing that, some sign that you felt threatened. Otherwise you look like a mad ex who can't share your child. Go through everything you have and look at it from the eyes of someone who doesn't know what's happening. If your strongest evidence is that he is a drunk with DUIs, then you're on thin ground. The best you could do is ask for supervised visitation until he has been through substance abuse. My ex dug himself into a hole like that -- he had to get anger management classes, substance abuse, and a psych eval done, but being uBPD, he would have none of it.

Always propose a solution that you can live with so the judge sees that you are reasonable. It isn't generally reasonable to prevent another parent from seeing his/her child. So you have to demonstrate that you have felt afraid, and didn't have resources to file, and you're learning how things work. But your ex is xyz, and you are concerned about the safety of your child. However, you do want your ex in your son's life if he is healthy, and propose that he undergoes a substance abuse treatment program. Remind the judge that there are 3DUIs in x period of time. Tell the judge that you struggled with alcohol 10 years ago when you got 2 DUIs, and since then have had x years of sobriety and the birth of your son changed everything for you, and no longer feel the need to drink whatsoever. You feel confident that a substance abuse program would give your ex the same tools you have gained, and know that it will increase the chances that your son will have a healthy father in his life.

Etc.

I will contact the high conflict institute.

I did get a temporary restraining order last year. But after 30 days, I didn't show. So it was dismissed due to lack of prosecution. The reason I didn't pursue was bc I ran into a guy in the hallway where he and his ex wife both had restraining orders on each other. He had the daughter taken away from her for two weeks. The current visitation in his case was for him to see the daughter every two weeks. I asked if he wanted to see her more. He said that he couldn't, because he works. Basically, he was just fighting her for the hell of it. That scared me.

When he threatened to kill me in Jan, 2014, I called the police, but didn't pursue. We got back together. There should be a police report. When he threatened to kill me in May, 2014, I didn't call the police, but I emailed myself and detailed the situation. With phone records and email, maybe that serves as documentation.

In his voicemails, we have him calling me a whore, b___,etc... .Maybe that might show something?

There is a mediation in 2 wks, but my lawyer wants to cancel it, because he only filed Request to Set Aside Default, and not order for custody. She doesn't think I should go. I don't know if that is wise.

I have emails and texts from last year where he says he will go to AA. Also, I have empty pill bottles of Xanax. But this is from last year. He could say he is sober now. Will those old evidence be enough to get alcohol monitoring or supervised visits?

It's that All-Or-Nothing rejection.  The perception is that past relationships failed due to the others' fault and so of course all past relationships must be characterized as abusive.  Blaming and Blame-shifting.

And a child is huge leverage, especially now but also for the 15+ years to come.  Especially in a court where judges have the judicial discretion to say, "I don't know which is true so... ."

What you have on your side is majority parenting thus far.  Of course, a double-edged sword, he can claim he was blocked but your response needs to characterize it in the best possible light... .your concern for your child, your concern about his patterns of instability, anger, drug use, alcoholism, DUIs, etc.  Maybe you weren't an angel in every single communication or contact, but no one is, so don't volunteer anything that might make you look bad and anything that they may have against you try to defuse it as best you can.  Now is not the time to share information that might disadvantage you, not unless you have to.

Mediation... .it seldom works early in a high conflict case, the disordered person is generally too entitled to be reasonable.  In my case, my ex stonewalled the entire divorce process, we had to wade through every single step, took nearly 2 years, she had that favorable of a temp order, then as I walked into court for Trial Day I was greeted with the news she finally wanted to settle.  Talk about "on the court house steps"... .

But just because mediation is unlikely to work is no reason not to try.  You want to be the one seen as cooperative to the court process, not obstructionist.  But if now is not the time or circumstance for mediation then why do it?  Did court schedule the mediation?  If it doesn't apply then I don't see any need to try mediation at this time.  It's up to your lawyer to contest it to the court and see what happens.

I think that the fact you filed for protection, even though you didn't pursue it and let it lapse, is a strong indicator of the past pattern.  Yes, it's not great that you went back - professionals might not work as hard for victims who keep going back despite repeated help - but what is good is that you did try to make it work, it still failed again and to your credit you did then end the relationship.  No one will tell you to go back.  They don't relish dealing with revolving door victims and perps.

Yes, have all that documentation with you at every court appearance.  You may never need most of it, but you won't know in advance which items are the most helpful.  Just be prepared for short hearings.  Prioritize your points.  Typically I write that you need to give priority to the Parenting behaviors (with the child) more than the Adult behaviors (with you and others).  However, since he hasn't been around the child much, your main evidence may be (1) how he treated you and (2) his own history and patterns.

Also, try to get the best order from the start.  It won't be perfect but don't think "no big deal, we'll fix the rest later".  In my case I filed in March, got a temp order in May (and my lawyer said, ":)on't worry, we'll fix it later" and the temp order remained unchanged despite many obstructions until the final decree in March two years later.

If your case is reopened you may still get a temp order regarding temp custody, temp parenting and temp child support.

Oops, sorry. I didn't catch that you had a lawyer. I thought you were pro se.

It might help to think through what each item of evidence means for you, in terms of your goals.

For example, threatening to kill you is a sign of anger issues toward you. Not the child. The court might think, "Well, they didn't get along. Now they aren't together. Problem solved." What you need to show is that he kept a pattern of anger up all this time, and the two of you cannot work together in the best interests of the child. Of course, this won't go very far if your ex can point to any aggressive or angry emails from you, so it needs to be documented. You may also want to check and make sure that voice mails can be heard in court. Most courts are not very tech savvy and they want things to move forward quickly. You barely have time to flip through a binder much less get out equipment to play a recording. Don't leave anything up to chance if you're allowed to play that stuff, make sure you know how to get that evidence out there, and whether it has to be vetted by a forensic IT person to make sure it wasn't doctored.

A second item, the drinking -- the DUIs will matter, but you have to demonstrate that this is something that could happen when he is with your child. If all his DUIs happened at midnight and he has been through detox or AA, then he'll make the argument that he's in treatment and getting better. If his lawyer is any good, he'll have your ex going to AA meetings. In one second, your entire argument about drinking will be swept away.

That's why you have to devise strategic solutions that will be difficult for your ex to comply with. If it's a reasonable thing that you suggest, he is even less likely to comply. When he doesn't comply, he starts to demonstrate his BPD behaviors to the court, and that becomes a source of documentation on its own. If I had to characterize how I got full custody and had visitation terminated, it would be that. My ex represented himself and could not hide his behavior. He began to be BPD toward the judge and despite being a very intelligent, charming and articulate high-functioning mentally ill guy, court saw through it and took everything away. I almost became a secondary character in the whole tragedy.

liveandlearned, I see what you are saying. If I make stipulations that regard his bad behavior, such as substance abuse programs, then he may crack, since the last thing he wants is to admit fault or accept blame. Then, his BPD or antisocial behaviors will manifest in public.

I have heard before that it isn't about the adult behaviors, it is about parenting behaviors. That may be helpful, because he had allowed it go into default. And he can throw every accusation and the kitchen sink at me, but if he was concerned about the child, he would have requested order 10 months ago. Through all the emails, I always state that I won't do visitations unless he is sober living. And through the 10 months, I was financially supporting my son and taking him to baby classes, etc.

But I still think that somehow it could be turned. I have to be careful, and unfortunately, I cannot feel confident in a court system where a major theme is that mothers are keeping children out of spite,  which of course happens when a woman has BPD.

And ForeverDad, I agree. I don't think mediation is good unless I have to. Also, he really intimidates me, and if I request separate mediations due to domestic violence, then that will sway him to complain about domestic violence, and I know we will get down that road.

But, there is a small chance that he might disappear again. I hear BPDs don't respond to nonchalance. It bores them.

Probably, he got drunk and reckless and someone probably advised him, "Why don't you go back to your wife?" As if it is the 1920s. Or someone on Facebook asked where pictures of his child were. He saw a tv ad for divorce attornies (His attornies advertise heavily). He picked up the phone and gave them $600 down payment. He was able to file a motion without much effort.

If the judge does not allow default to be set aside, he will have to file orders. He may disappear again. But if the judge allows it to be set aside, then here comes the battle.

I can't remember where I read this, maybe the Liz library, basically you don't want to cry victim, judges don't like it, especially if you have a child. You have to be able to take care of the child no matter what the obstacle. When you point out his bad behavior you should be able to show what you did to not just be a victim. If he is an alcoholic, you go to some ala non meetings to better handle the situation. If he is abusive go to a support group,  if you lived together and he was so controlling you couldn't leave the house to work, look for at home jobs.  If he refuses to communicate, go to a coparenting program alone. If he is verbally abusive in person, communicate via email. Not only show the judge the bad he does, show your efforts to persevere despite it.  And judges like to see people who want to improve a situation, not give up on it. Suggesting things that can be worked on is a great thing, like going to AA, or having visits during the day, not at night, for a set period until sobriety is proven. That shows you are willing to work at this.

I tried taking him to a therapist during the day. As I said, he shows no visible signs of drinking when he does. He exploded suddenly in the car, tried to take the steerin wheel and swerve it in the opposite lane, then called me a b___ and a whore throughout the drive and spit on me on the way home.

That was the last time I saw him.

And even, I tried to arrange a visitation meeting at an AA meeting. It was his birthday weekend, and he disappeared. Then, a day later, he calls and wants to meet on a Monday. I told him I could not, because I work on Monday.

Then, he harasses me for a week, via email and phone calls, and threatens to slash my throat.

That is when I said, "Okay you gotta be in sober living." Bc even an AA meeting is no guarantees. Three therapists had told me that my life and the baby's life is in danger.

One time, he wanted me to give him $5 and I said no. He looked at the sleeping baby in a menacing way as if he was going to do something... .I gave him the $5

I am not trying to say all BPD sufferers are dangerous. But as one lady said, "You mix BPD with alcohol, someone may check out of the hotel of life."

I cannot meet up with this man. I see news stories like a guy who threw a baby out of a car, and I think, "hmmm. I can see him doing that." Or I see the news where doing a visitation drop off, a man pours gasoline on his ex and lights her on fire.

I carry pepper spray now. OJ did not kill Nicole while they were married.

I cannot meet with him.

But I'll go back to my emails when I tried visitation and therapy and show the court.

I am saying I am scared of DUI and choking hazards. But, honestly, I as m scared for our lives.

Mediation does not have to be face-to-face.  If and when it happens, you can ask for separate rooms, separate arrivals and separate departures.  You're not the only one dealing with long term DV and extreme behaviors.

In some states lawyers are a part of the process, in other states it's just the mediator.  However, if you have a tough topic to deal with you can get a water or restroom break and quietly call your lawyer's office or other support to get second opinions.

Also, be aware that in at least some cases any agreement reached in negotiations may not be binding until it is presented to the court, attested to and signed into an order.  Your lawyer can guide you through the process so you know when any agreement is locked in.  The key is not to feel pressured into agreements you feel in your gut are just plain wrong.  They're seldom pleasant outcomes but you can sense when the offers being pushed are no good.  Often what the ex demands is so unreasonable that it is nowhere close to what you would walk out with from the judge.  Yes, you may not like the judge's decision either but likely it would be less unfavorable than what the ex demands.

Believe it or not, most cases do end with settlements.  Mine did.  I was in court a few times over the years and I also had to leave some decisions to the magistrates... .my ex was too entitled those times and couldn't even be somewhat in-the-ballpark reasonable.

Have you gone to a victims advocacy place with your actual documentation? Emails, texts, voicemail, etc? And no in person contact is very smart of you, if all else fails only meet at the police department. If he doesn't like it too bad.

Foreverdad, in my state, mediators cannot make recommendations. However, if you make an agreement, it is binding.

Rarsweet, a police station is a good one. I really do not want to be exposed to him... .

But I don't want my son alone with him. I fear for his safety. It doesn't feel right to get a divorce to protect myself and then throw my son back in the ring.

It is not human. So, I don't know about police station drop offs. It has to be supervised visitation.

I wish I went to al- anon earlier. Now, it may seem intentional to win custody if I go now.  I would go victim advocate. But I work during the weekdays.

An alcoholic struggles with it forever, and he is going to be the dad forever, in my opinion ala non could be helpful long term, I do understand what you mean by it looking like you do it just to win custody, that's how they twist things. But think OK this, if the other parent was deaf wouldn't you learn sign language? Usually crisis centers have after hours call centers, maybe call and see what they suggest? I have learned when you think you can't, everything is impossible. And in my state every county has victim advocacy in the district attorneys offices. You could Google a search for victim advocacy in your city, see what pops up. I know sometimes it seems exhausting and frustrating. Even a victim advocate can just help to word a protective order application effectively so its more likely to be accepted . And protecting yourself and keeping yourself safe and healthy is what your baby needs absolutely the most, don't feel guilty! Like you have to put the oxygen mask on the airplane on you first.

Rarsweet, I think I'll start al-anon. The baby is getting older, so I can take him too.

You said something earlier about the voicemails may cause backlash.

I talk to my mom and lawyers and friends, and they thought, "Well he is not into her anymore and he is an alcoholic deadbeat." And he portrays that too. Like, "I'm fine with the marriage being over."  And I kind of believed it after a while. But they are not familiar with BPD.

He's not fine with the marriage being over. I rack my brain thinking of his motive, knowing he hardly cared about the baby. If anything, our son was an annoyance. I know his motive now: He has had enough of this drinking and freedom. He wants me to take care of him. He's promising himself that he will stay sober and he wants his family back.

So, rarsweet, you're right. These voicemails and emails are going to burst open a whole lotta abandonment and rage. I will get hit by the falsest allegations known to man.

here we go.

I know exactly what you mean. People who have not experienced can be very naive, and they can give you very simple answers. Ugg if only it was that easy. Sometimes I think our pwBPDd are so predictable if we take the time to learn about the disorder. I have had times where I have told people exactly what my ex will do or say next , and then when I am right they look at me like I'm nuts lol, like a crazy psychic lady. I'm not psychic, I'm just educating myself. False accusations would be expected in your case. Document, document, document.

You might want to keep receipts in a binder so if he makes a false allegation that you were at place x, you can show with receipts that you were actually at place y.

There are small false allegations (persuasive blaming), and then there are big ones that the court would pay attention to. What is your sense with your ex? What kinds of false allegations will he make?

I also keep receipts, even if I just buy milk. And I have an ongoing calender on my computer, I put in my work schedule, Dr appointments, even phone calls I make, Christmas shopping, etc. I could tell you exactly what I did in September 12th for example, it sucks, but worth it in the long run. I also back up my texts and call log to my email, so I can show everything. I kkep a journal, when I ran into exes dad at a gas station I wrote it down, when my mom ran into ex at a store I wrote it down.documents.

One of the psychological benefits of this that matters if you end up in court -- it makes you confident. Your confidence is necessary in order to match the persuasiveness that your ex will feel.

In my deposition, when I knew the exact dates, chronology, etc. in response to questions about S13, I could see the L realizing he had to keep this thing out of court because I was credible.

Gloria_Patch -- that's actually a potential strategy for you, to use a deposition. My ex is also an alcoholic, and in our deposition, he got himself all tangled up in BPD logic when he would say he wasn't an alcoholic, and that he quit, but he still drinks, and is sober, except when he drinks on the weekend, and that he no longer drinks hard alcohol, but can't remember the last time he had a cocktail, maybe it was at a conference. He said he sometimes drank to excess but only on the weekends. Which happened to be when he had S13.   

In other words, he was all over the place.

Liveandlearned, I think it is possible he will make the most extreme allegations. He yelled at the baby, so he'll say I did. His mother and him called child services when the baby was 5 wks old saying that I bruised him. That is sick. He'll try to say that I go out drinking and my mom watches our son. He'll say I bring strange men home. I know he'll say these things, because he had actually accused me of these things to my face. He never accused me of child abuse to my face, but he was always jealous, and he'd project his actions on me. If he wants to drink and pick up one night stands, then so must I.

But thankfully, he disappeared for 11 months, so his accusations maybe won't stick, right?... .Since if he was concerned about the welfare of the child, he would have acted sooner. Is that a legit argument?

Rarsweet, as far as documenting my activities, I did not. I never thought of it. That would have been smart. But I don't do anything. I just go to work and come home and take care of my baby until he sleeps. All the work has kept me isolated from many of my friends. But, honestly I never had much friends since I had met him. But, I may get some witness statements to testify to my sobriety. I also had taken the baby to baby classes every Saturday from Sept to January. I am enrolling him in a new class this weekend. I also pictures of us at the park, etc.

From my experience, many people have a funny feeling about my ex, so they have a funny feeling about me or getting involved in something ugly.

So, I'm really alone here.

But what I do have is emails to myself documenting major events. And because I blocked his number, and he was too drunk to go to a pay phone, he said many horrible things over email.

Yes. Exactly. And just as important, you focus on this. You get your L to focus on this. "Mr. BPD, why, if you were so concerned about my client's ability to take care of the child, would you disappear for 11 months?" And take apart any argument he can make. "My client's DUIs from 10 years ago are not relevant to this case. Gloria_Patch is in AA and unless you can demonstrate to the court that any of these false allegations have any basis in the truth, please share. I recommend that you be very careful, Mr. BPD, about perjuring yourself in this court."


It can feel that way. But you have us. And you are going to get out of this. Eventually, it will get better. It won't go away, but it will be less painful. You're in the worst part of the legal stuff right now because it's all still a bit fuzzy what comes next. You're dealing with two unknowns: the legal system, and your ex. Once you get through this, things will become more clear. Raising a child when one parent has BPD is not easy, but it can get manageable. You'll learn things here that can help minimize the conflict and give you good tools to enforce boundaries. Plus raise an emotionally resilient child.



LnL

Focus on what is 'actionable' or has the most impact on parenting.

For example, ex may focus on you having DUI's a decade ago back when you were barely out of your teens.  That won't be actionable most likely, you've had a decade since then to prove otherwise.  So let him bark up the wrong tree for a while, it is a minor concern today.

An example of what not to focus on is the adult behaviors of the relationship.  Court won't be concerned about normal conflict resulting from an ending or ended relationship.  Emotions run high and judges expect to see excitable parents and discount the less serious things.  The DV and threats of DV are an exception, those do merit concern going forward.

One issue courts have a hard time with is when you believe the child is at risk but there is no substantive evidence of child abuse, child neglect or child endangerment, three things that do concern the professionals.  Saying "He abused me and threatened me and so I think he will do it to our child" is sadly not a strong claim, at least not by itself, you would have to convince the court by effectively connecting the dots with other documented behaviors.  It's hard to get action with a negative statement such as "He hasn't been around our child much but I am concerned that if he is unsupervised around him then our child will be at risk."  Courts often are reluctant to make decisions based on hypothetical scenarios.  It's almost like some parents have to let something happen, hopefully not too serious, before the court agrees that some limits need to be put in place.

Be aware that your witnesses and supporters writing letters or affidavits on your behalf may not be enough.  They may have to appear in person.  In the USA it is testimony and documented details that count.  As my lawyer would say, "I can't cross-examine a piece of paper.  I always object and it's always sustained."

FD makes a really good point!

There is some theater to being in court, if it comes to that for you. If your ex comes in slinging mud at you, and you put that same kind of energy into focusing on what's best for the child, that could be a really effective strategy. I'm convinced judges are looking for signs to see who is the most grown-up adult in the room. They see a lot of emotionally immature people who can't solve their way out of a box, that's why they end up in court. If you break that mold and show you can focus on your child, when your ex is focused on you, that's going to show.

If your ex is making every allegation under the sun, and some of them are extreme with nothing to back them up (not to mention he flaked off for 11 months, undermining his own concerns), and you go into court and have your L say, "Your honor, my client is focused on the well-being of the child. That is her number one goal. Mr. BPD cannot move on from the conflict in their marriage and he is at risk of perjuring himself with these false allegations. We propose that Mr. BPD seek alcohol treatment at x facility, and a psych evaluation. We ask for supervised visitation until he has completed his treatment."

Foreverdad, I see your point and I've heard that from other lawyers. In the restraining order, I did state the two instances when he yelled at the baby. Also, there was an instance in March, 2014 where I left for 15 min to the store, and the baby was crying uncontrollably. I emailed a therapist that day about the event, and he advised me that my husband was dangerous to me and the baby. I might not be able to use his advice in court unless the therapist testifies, but I can use the email as a personal documentation that this happened on that day. He also came to my apt after we split, and he say my mom feeding the baby through the window. He didn't even look at his son, and glared at my mom and said, "B___".

Also, the baby doesn't know who he is. I heard that could work for temporary supervised visitation.

And, his mother put him on Prozac and Xanax. If he suddenly withdraws from Prozac, I think that could pose a danger. Although I have no evidence of his bipolar diagnosis, they say Prozac actually makes bipolar worst.

Liveandlearned,

I like the way you worded what my lawyer should say. I really need a good lawyer. The lawyer I hired is for the Set Aside Default motion. But, I don't think she hears me.

So, he needs a psych evaluation, but these are hard things to get, from what I hear.

I really need a thorough lawyer. An expert witness such as a psychologist works. But now, we're talking about $$$

Yes, I think it's hard to get a psych eval right out the gate. Over time, if something happens that warrants it, you can ask. That's what happened in my case. The other option is to ask for a custody evaluation right away, where both parents get psych evals and the custody evaluator comes to both of you.


It's going to take some time to understand how court really works. There is what you think happens, and then there is what really happens. For people like us, what really happens is so important because it takes into account how our BPD spouses think and behave.

In my experience, especially when a BPD father is involved, you want your strategy to put a big emphasis on keeping the status quo until he does something to show he wants to be a parent.

Your L needs to have a strategy that focuses on those 11 months. Who abandons their child for 11 months? Only someone with issues. So then your L asks that the court kinda put your ex on probation to show that he's up for the job. I promise you, alcohol + BPD will make it nearly impossible for your ex to do what he needs to do.

So yes, you can try to put together a watertight case with experts and all that, but you might not need it. Plus, that's expensive. Court sees a constant stream of humanity wash through its courtroom every day, and the stories are so awful it can make them a bit numb. What is different is when someone comes in and says, "The dad wasn't involved, he has some issues, he had these DUIs, he's still slinging mud at the mom, but you know what? We think he can be rehabilitated. But we want to be cautious and go slow because the minor child is an infant and his well-being is of paramount importance here. Let's give Mr. BPD an opportunity to show he is willing to clean up his act and be a good dad." Then he gets supervised visitation while he does his classes or gets substance abuse treatment.

The thing we know is that pwBPD aren't going to seek treatment and do what a reasonable person would do in this situation. That's alarming to court. It's really strange that a father who wants so desperately to see his child won't do a 6 week treatment program, or go to his anger management classes. But pwBPD won't do that, at least not consistently, because it's shameful. And they are victims in the belief system at the core of their disorder. It would take a lot of intensive therapy, plus the will to get better -- and that is often lacking by the time they are in court as part of a high-conflict custody battle.

It seems like there are some BPD dads who want to get the victim ticket so they can wriggle out of the hard work of parenting. You make sure the bar is high for him to participate and he will interpret that as "I got screwed by court." You and the court share the role of being the punitive parent who victimized him.  

Bipolar is treated with medications.  As I understand it, there is a physical imbalance that they can address more or less.  However, Borderline is one of the Personality Disorders.  This is not solely a chemical imbalance.  Yes, meds can help moderate the behaviors but they are not a fix.  That's why long term therapy is not just important, it is crucial and essential for a measure of recovery.

So why is he getting meds for Bipolar and not Borderline?  Historically the professionals have found it easier to have sessions covered by insurance with Bipolar rather than Borderline.  Probably too Bipolar doesn't have the stigma that BPD does.  In some ways they're similar, hence all the people getting the Bipolar label.  Also, we're not professionals, for all we know he might be co-morbid with both.

The key is not to go into court thinking that all you have to do is Play Doctor.  (Even if you were a doctor, it wouldn't be ethical for you to treat someone in your own family anyway, it would have to be done by an emotionally neutral professional.)  If he has a diagnosis, fine, it might mean something.  So would a history of hospitalizations, evaluations, etc.  But don't make getting a diagnosis your prime concern.  Courts focus their attention on law, case law, their rules and procedures... .and especially the behaviors... .so should we.

So while you can request anger management classes, counseling or therapy, they won't fix his behaviors unless he is really and truly working on himself for the long haul.  So court may order some classes or evaluations but will likely deal with him as he is.  You would do well to be prepared for that future - dealing with him as he is.  Likely it will come down to getting the best orders you can get from the very beginning.  Over time he may flub up and look bad or the court may eventually figure him out over the years but still it is better to get the best order you can from the start.  It won't be a perfect order, there will still be holes where he can obstruct, delay and create chaos.  But at least it will be manageable.

Foreverdad, I suspect he is borderline.  But he was diagnosed with bipolar. I heard also that men who are borderline tend to het diagnosed with bipolar. But I'm not trying to diagnose him really. But I wonder if I may have an argument. For example, "Look, a doctor had diagnosed him as bipolar. His mother has him illegally prescribed Proxac and Xanax. I don't know what role these chemical may play on his brain. Can you please order him a psych evaluation? If he is taking the Prozac, he obviously thinks he has a mental illness. He needs a professional diagnosis." Right? No? I don't know.

Liveandlearned, I read somewhere that custody evaluators could be dangerous. But I agree with setting the bar high. And he won't rise to the occasion. Aside from BPD, alcoholism itself is a haze of blaming, denial, and manipulation. On a different board, a man who was a recovering alcoholic advised a woman to not make visitation easy on him, because the disease is detrimental to the child and the man probably won't recover for another 10 yrs. Seriously,  my ex husband had three DUIs. For 5 years, he didn't have a license or car. And once he did, he started driving drunk again! It's crazy. I stopped drinking 2.5 years ago, but I stopped drinking and driving 10 yrs ago. I was in an AA mtg once and this lady was crying bc she had killed her nephew. My son cannot be his rock bottom.

It really is abandonment due to drinking. I had another lawyer suggest that.

How about those meds mixed with alcohol?

Yes, both meds are not supposed to mix well with alcohol. Especially, Xanax. With his experience with addiction, no psychiatrist would ever prescribe him Xanax. And we're not talking about a 10 yr old child here who can pick up the phone and call mom if something is wrong. This is a baby that needs constant monitoring. Most daycares do not even take children that age because of the difficulty.

OK about the meds... .is there a proscription on the bottle? Every state has some kind of board that youcan report proscription abuse. Also you could report his mother.

I know . The prescriptions are from another state.  Some of the bottles are in the name of a stomach doctor. I doubt the doctor was aware. He would not risk his license. Some of the bottles are prescribed by a nurse who had written a Dr. In front of her name, which is illegal. Even a psychiatrist cannot prescribe medicine to a patient for over a year without seeing him.

However, I try to stay away from practices of revenge. If the mother tries to be his supervisoe or gets close to the baby, I may report her. She can ruin her own son's life, but not mine.

What kind of mother prescribes her son an addictive medication when he was trying to be sober. One time, he told me she offered him wine. And he said, "Why would she do that?"

Personally, I believe there are skeletons in the closet. And as long as he's drunk, they will stay there.

My ex is also bipolar/BPD -- and an alcoholic. And what really pushed me out of the marriage was when he started mixing prescription drugs. First Chantix, then Ambien, for a while Wellbutrin.

I think those meds mixed with a non neurotypical brain can wreak havoc. But when my ex "quit" the underlying BPD was still there, what my L referred to as dry drunk. And even though our custody order stipulated that he could not drink before or during visitation, he did. He had a psychotic episode one night while S13 was in the house (11 at the time) and I nearly had a full-blown nervous breakdown.

I feel you on this mixture of cluster A and B + alcohol and meds. And you have a young baby.

If it costs you money now, it's worth it. You will end up in court paying to keep your child safe no matter what, so setting the foundation now is in your favor. I settled for meh in the beginning and it dragged on for 4 years. I wish I had had more of a backbone when I started.

And yes -- custody evaluators can be bad. So can judges. And lawyers. So can psychiatrists. And parenting coordinators. The best you can do is be the one choosing the CEs, or whatnot and do your homework to figure out if they're good, and especially ethical. Come here and ask every question that crosses your mind -- chances are someone has some experience. People here have had awful experiences with parenting coordinators. I've heard them called petty tyrants, trash cans for money, awful things. But mine was amazing. She was a child psychologist first and foremost, and actually trains PCs. She took her ethics training very seriously and ordered my ex to get a psych eval the first time she met with him.

There is no silver bullet to any of this, and of course, it can all come down to the judge. But good things do happen, and fair and reasonable rulings are made. You prepare for the worse -- really, really prepare -- and you hope for the best.

That sounds reasonable.  Do try to tie it into his future role as parent, how much authority he should have, how much parenting he should have and whether there should be limits or restrictions set.

I wasn't saying not to seek a diagnosis or a better diagnosis.  Just that you can't do it and a court could decide that a diagnosis alone may mean less than you think.  I recall my own case.  It was so clear to me which PDs fit my ex... .every one of the Paranoid traits and most of the Borderline traits.  Yet my excellent Custody Evaluator stated in the first session, "I'm not here to diagnose, I'm here to make recommendations on custody and parenting."  His report was excellent, he did everything - and did it well - except diagnose.  To my knowledge, my ex hasn't been diagnosed.  And no one has asked me.

I hope you have some of the bottles, or photos of them.  Documentation is important.  Claims can very easily be viewed as hearsay and effectively ignored or set aside.

Liveandlearned, wow. I can't believe the emotional fear that caused you and youe son at the time. It's so crazy how they sort of know they have a mental illness, they definitely know they are alcoholics, and then they play with prescription meds to top it off.

I was thinking if another motive he may have and that his mother may have pushed him to file so that she could get to the baby. Besides the rage and false allegations she loves to do, I have an eerie feeling about her. I think over half of borderlines have experienced childhood sexual abuse. My husband says he "lost his innocence young." I believe if she actually doesn't physically abuse in a sexual way, she at least introduces young children to sexual ideas early.

I'm hiring a new lawyer today. My position is to focus on the alcohol and meds and gather evidence for that. My second strongest point is the abandonment.

I do fear the whole court system.

Foreverdad, I do have the pill bottles. And I think I have a text of him saying he will go to AA and therapy, so that may be an admission of sorts.

But, maybe I should report the mother. She is the head of the snake.

Your L is going to filter a lot of this, and it will be 80% theater, and 20% hard, cold facts. By theater, I mean that your L will be objecting to things, and the judge will sustain or overrule, and a bunch of things where Ls try to get around the legal technicalities. You can't include hearsay, for example. But they do, because that's the persuasive part of being in court.

The grandmother is beside the point to a court of law. She has no legal authority, she is not a parent.

And if you don't get the right ruling right out of the gate, don't lose hope. The real thing happening in court, despite being about the well-being of the child, is to put as much problem-solving back on the you and your ex. Research apparently shows that people are more likely to follow a court order that they work out together than one that the judge orders. Since you are new to the system, the judge is going to give you two a slap on the wrists and tell you to work together. What's going in your favor is that your child is young and you're the mother. Even in a 50/50 default state, there is going to be bias. Your ex played into that bias when he didn't try to see your child for 11 months, but he can also show that he's very committed by showing up and having a good lawyer who makes the case that you denied access. It's really hard to predict how it will play. So much comes down to the judge.

But in all likelihood, your ex cannot handle the stresses of parenting. Make sure you add something to the order that says if the dad can't take care of the child, you are the first person who will care for your baby. Otherwise, your ex will get his mom involved. Get your L to write the order -- and add that clause. Some judges will micro-manage this process, but a lot seem to leave it up to the Ls. It will cost you money, but it will give you control. Your ex will probably not catch it.

Then, when he hands your baby to his mother, you can file a contempt of court. That's when grandma becomes a person of interest in the court proceedings.

These cases are not one-time events. I wish they were. 

I had to work and couldn't personally care for my son every minute.  When my ex started taking career training and eventually started working, she couldn't either.  So we used daycare.  I had two factors to deal with... .

• She of course didn't want my family to stand in my place.  (That's your situation, you have concerned about MIL taking over his parenting.  Your concerns are valid, my ex's claims weren't.)



• Also, I knew that she would try to commandeer my own parenting time between end of school and when I got off work.  I wanted my time to remain my time and just as importantly avoid any extra exchangers and encounters with her.

So in my order (a settlement minutes before the Trial) I made sure daycare was declared the equivalent of school.  So she wasn't able to march into school as the children were leaving and demand our child on my parenting time simply because I wasn't the one picking him up from school.

For the first few years we had ROFR - Right of First Refusal.  What that meant was that if either of us couldn't care for our child for more than X hours, then we had to offer that time to the other parent first before seeking other child care arrangements.  (That's why I had daycare declared as equivalent to school, to reduce the demands she could make on me.)  You may want to consider a variation of that concept depending on what amount of parenting the court allows him to have as well as your specific circumstances with work, daycare, ex, ex's MIL, etc.

The above refinements worked for me, until my son got older and I got custody.  Your issues are a little different and so it probably isn't a good strategy for you, not without tweaks.  But this example demonstrates that if you ponder the issues, develop strategies to address your concerns and explore the potential ramifications, then you can avoid many problems, conflicts and confrontations.  Not all of course, but many.

Oh, I like that idea. He probably won't catch it. That keeps the baby safe from grandma. I'll tell my lawyer when it gets to that.

I hope this is a one-time thing. It will be if I win supervised visitation. The reason I say this is because I can't imagine him spending money on anything but himself. So, in the long run, he may give. Although, his mother might. But she's a little greedy also.

It is really key that I win this time around.

What do you think about mediation. I do not want to be in the same room as him. There has been a history oc domestic violence. And, I don't want to get in mud slinginf contest. But if I request a different room due to domestic violence, it might trigger accusations toward me. Should I just suck it up, sit in the room with him and focus on his alcohol?

The pros of mediation in the same room: you hear everything that is being said.

Cons: everything gets watered down and it can be hard to understand what is being offered, what was said.

Mediators can be good/not good. A good one will recognize immediately if your ex is narcissistic and then validate his feelings without agreeing to his demands.

Most mediators, and many lawyers, pride themselves on reaching settlement or consensus. They don't necessarily pride themselves on getting what you want. So if you think your have a very strong backbone, then you might do ok in the same room with your ex. If not, and there was DV, then separate rooms are good.

I did mind in a separate room and I'm glad I did.

Should I bring my documentation and evidence to the mediation or too soon to introduce?

It might be different for you... .but my guess is that your bottom line is too triggering for him to come to any reasonable resolution in mediation. He is not going to want supervised visitation and lose custody. In that sense, mediation is not likely to work. Mediation requires some give and take. But if you treat mediation as a way to see what he and his L are thinking, then there is no need to bring any documentation or evidence.

That's what lawyers often do with depositions. They want to see how you or the opposing client deal with interrogation under pressure. If you are credible, organized, and reasonable, and their client is none of those things, they aren't going to want to go to trial. Mediation can work a similar way, especially if you are all in the same room.

Most reasonable lawyers try to settle in mediation, so there will be a palpable pressure for you to give your ex something that he wants. So your question is tactical and strategic more than anything.

If you have strong evidence, the opposing L may realize that this thing has to be settled out of court because the judge will back up your request. If your evidence is not strong, the L will see what cards you have, and decide to prepare the case to take apart your arguments.

Hope that makes sense.

For this one, lawyers won't be present.

I feel like saying more, but I don't feel very strong today.

My son had fun in baby class, an now when I see him healthy and free and happy, I feel this dread that it could all be ruined.

I need to stay positive, I know.

I know that dread so well.  :'(

Court kinda drags that feeling out.

Stay present with your baby and learn what you can about validation. It will change so much in his life, and yours. It's a positive thing you can focus on while things move slowly through the legal system. Regardless of what happens, you can raise an emotionally resilient child. Doing that made me feel so much more grounded as a parent. I couldn't control the legal stuff, but I could do a lot to make the environment healthy for S13.

There's stuff on validation under tools to the right for quick reading ------------>

|iiii

Rule #1 in mediation... .you don't have to make a deal, especially when the other is unreasonable demands.  So when in mediation, take some moments before making any commitments to imagine yourself and your feelings -- when walking out the door, the next day, a year down the road -- whether you would reflect back and be satisfied or have substantial regrets.

What I suggested above is to seek a measure of perspective, objectivity.  When in the midst of mediation or settlement talks there is an immense emotional pressure in the moment for us Nice Guys and Nice Gals to agree or settle.  But if your gut tells you it feels wrong, more than just difficult, then listen to it.

I recall when I was in mediation I had a few non-negotiables.  Those were, in effect, my boundaries for what I would accept voluntarily.  Yes, I knew the court with its Authority might order otherwise, if it did then so be it, I would have top abide by it, but I wasn't going to agree to what I felt wasn't right.

For example, when we separated my ex felt I should be only a 'sometimes' dad at most.  When she was at her worst she would say I'd never see my preschooler again.  When not so upset she'd say she would let me see him 'a little'.  Well, domestic court, without any concern about our parenting, ordered I get alternate weekends and an evening in between because I worked a regular 5 day schedule.  So her 'never' and 'sometimes' failed right from the start.  When we were sent to mediation she 'offered' the same ordered temp schedule as a settlement, about 22% parenting time.  I countered for at least 50%.  There we were stuck and the mediator told us not to come back unless we could agree on parenting.  As you can figure, we never went back.

Because the order was favorable to her, she stretched out the divorce as long as she could, from filing to final decree was 23.5 months and the court declined to make any changes to the order during that time.  Or my lawyer never tried hard, I recall the initial Custody Evaluation report recommended she immediately lose her temporary custody but that never happened.  It wasn't until after the final decree that I found out her lawyer had told her she'd probably lose at trial.  That explained why, when I arrived at court on Trial Morning, I was greeted with the news she was finally ready to settle.  We had the entire day reserved for us but we settled by noontime.  She agreed to my minimum of equal time in 'Shared Parenting' -- something unstated but clearly supported by the lawyers and the Custody Evaluator -- but balked at my Boundary that I must be RP - Residential Parent for School Purposes.  After some begging and tears, she relented.  I felt that way because just a few months before she had lost us our son's pediatrician by raging at the staff and thus incurring the subsequent "withdrawal of services".

Yes, Shared Parenting failed, a possibility mentioned in the CE report, but as I look back, I don't regret my stance in mediation or on Trial Day.  They were appropriate at the time.  And it was within my range of acceptability.  I knew mediation would likely fail, I felt Shared Parenting would likely fail too, but more or less things worked out when I held to certain 'boundary' minimums.  More or less, I got workable orders or settlements.  You can too.  When 'in the moment' under the pressure of mediation or negotiations try to keep a grasp of the overall perspective.

Hi Foreverdad, LiveandLearned, and rarsweet.

I have updates.

The mediation went well and quickly. I asked for separate rooms. The counselor didn't keep me long. I just stated that I wouldn't be able to make any kind of deal on that day.

And, the judge declined his motion to set aside. So I will be granted my judgement for full legal and physical custody and no visitation... Of course, he may file a request for modification, but at least, it will be more of an uphill battle for him.

I am eating again. I gained 1 pound already. I am taking multi vitamins.

I think what helped in my case was the emails. My lawyer showed the emails to prove he was aware that the case was going to court and that there would be no settlement, so he had no excuse to Default on the matter. But those emails also showed him cursing at me, callin me derogatory names.

My lawyer was good. He seems new and quiet, but he wrote the response well.

So, basically, now, I need to move.

This is his way of making me visit the trauma of the relationship. Every time, I move on and heal, he will always take me to court. Then, I have to revisit the most dreaded fear of humanity which is when a parent's child is in danger.

Emails are what helped me in my situation too.

I'm glad you have some closure on this, Gloria_Patch, at least this small part. It's true your ex can file to modify, but he will not only have an uphill battle, it's likely he will  have to do something to demonstrate he has changed. Meaning, your L would likely ask him to attend anger management classes, or get a psych eval. It's not likely your ex will do any of that.

Good to hear that you are gaining weight again, and taking care of your health. 

Are you planning to move out of the state?

Thank you for your support through this.

I think I may have to move out of state. Plus, I never planned on living in the state I am in. My ex isn't from this state either.

I