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I know that there are no real answers to this question but I am trying my best to understand why I can go through a string of hours or even a day, without any emotional reprecussion, feel complete justified and out of woods, appreciating that anything other than a complete end to the relationship was the only path to survival, thanking the stars that I got away and then… out of nowhere find myself completely chocked up, heart broken and in tears.

I go through those moments and then regain my internal composure and am, although shaken, back to my daily routine.   

It’s the grieving process, I know. It’s natural I know, but there are some very eloquent people on this site who manage to encapsulate things so nicely, that I thought I would throw this question out there.

The question has less to do with the grieving itself and more to do with the fact that these emotional releases hit out of completely nowhere.

What is hardest is that just prior to a recent, very short, recycle, I was feeling on top of the world, after only three months, NC. I will again.

Anyway, as mentioned, as I just went through one of these episodic break downs, I thought I might explore it with all of you.

Yeah, dude, I can relate. Totally understand where you are coming from. At 3 months NC, while feeling rather good, I broke NC. It was a two text exchange - one from me and one from her. It still knocked me back quiet a bit. It has been 4 months for me now, I still have these bi-weekly breakdowns. I can feel it building up over a couple of weeks and then I am finally in tears one day. Then it goes away. And the cycle repeats itself. I actually went to a psychotherapist to talk myself through this. She told me this is an emotional trauma. I told her that it almost feels like the love of my life died in a car crash or something. She told me - "That's a pretty good comparison" So, while I have no answers to why... .I think you are going through what most people have been through on here. Hang in there, we all will get through this. As they say - "It will be alright in the end. If it isn't alright, it isn't the end"

I know the feeling, as I have good days and some not so good days. Do you notice these less emotional days while busy doing other things? I tend to be completely ok at work, yet when I get home or on the weekends small bouts of sadness creeps in.

Thank you, this is exactly what I guess it feels like, trauma and profound loss. The only difference is that you know that they are still out there.

I find myself so bloody frustrated. While she did all of the things that most BPD's do, there was no cops, nothing vindictive, so I don't have the absolute hate that some do for their ex's. She did me wrong so often but it's not the same as one calamitous event, which I guess makes it that much harder. Over the last few days, the FOG has been lifting, seeing things that I knew I saw but that are making more of a negative impact on me, things that i didn't take much notice of while in the FOG.

I work from home, that doesn't help although, next week, I am going to just get out into the field and keep myself out there.

Thanks guys. It is really quite eerie how, between what our BPD's do, say and are and the way we, on the other side, react and process there are just so many identical actions and reactions.

We all walk though life thinking that we are unique individuals but in the end, as humans we are all so damn alike. This whole experience, of learning through BPD Family, reading the experiences of others that are not similar but absolutely identical, has been an incredible eye opener. Just the other day I was reading a thread and it was talking about guilt and one poster said "yeah if bagging your groceries the wrong way or using too much soap to do the dishes is something you believe you deserve to be beaten up for" My head kicked back as these were a couple of absolutely identical issues my ex had with me. I almost wanted to private message the guy and ask him if we were talking about the same woman. Fortunately, it was towards the end of my r/s while my ex and I were still living together and had been for four years. Whew... .

Freaky all of this, it really is, not only the education on BPD but everything.

after our b/u I could go from normal to instant cry with no reason and no emotional reasoning behind it. my c explained that sometimes we hold in emotions. when we are with our BPD, we keep them in a jar cause we don't dare show any-they will explode at us if we do. eventually the jar gets filled. what happens next? one drop and it's overflowing usually at the least convenient time. we can't control it any more. the jar doesn't stretch. doesn't have to have a reason, it's just overflowed because we didn't deal with the emotions-we jarred them-now we have to learn to empty the jar. yes, it is part of the healing process. and you are not alone in these feelings.

Tjay, that is another very interesting take on things. I suspect that it's a mix of the two. There is no question that so much emotion was bottle up during the course of the 4 years, every possible emotion too. It must be a cauldron of every conceivable negative feeling known to man. So it makes complete sense that we need to purge.

It's all so bloody confounding and sad.

Thank you, sir.

it does get better and easier with time.

Thanks Tejay, I know, was kind of there but maybe not. Maybe prior to the little recycle, there remained an ounce of hope, even if I was feeling completely out of the darkness and now, it has come time for me to completely process the end.

As someone said, the idea is to get out and live. I mean I am not sitting in my apt with my shutters closed by any means, in fact, I hit the studio and laid down some tracks and had a blast last night. I tend to be happy at home anyway. However, I need to do more.

I do believe that there might also be a frustration component to these emotions, the frustration that one feels when they just can't accomplish a desired goal, which in this case was to keep the partner they love so deeply connected and on track. The feeling of being robbed of something you saw as so dear to you. Again, back to the cauldron.

Really nice to have you guys out there to toss these thoughts at and to get such astute and valuable feedback.

Thanks again.

I have experienced this too. I am doing fine and then I am hit with this intense sense of loss and sadness. I have notice a time or two what might have been subtle triggers.

Once I was checking my email and came across a Groupon for hotels/travel deals. Browsed through it and then deleted it, and then very soon after I was hit by the sense of loss/sadness over the relationship. We had fun traveling together, even after the dysregulation started, and we planned do a lot of traveling in the future, talking about going to different states and countries, etc. In fact, just a few months before she moved out she wanted and tried to book a last minute family cruise. So maybe the groupon triggered the sense of loss, because I still have those positive memories. However, it was just a general sense of loss and missing the relationship, no cued memories of travel, per se. Of course, it could be I misattributed the sense of loss to the ad, but with making the attribution, I was able to accept it, embrace it, and carry on with work.

Another time was on the way home from work. I used to enjoy coming home to see her, and yes even if it meant walking on eggshells after the dysregulation started. So maybe just driving home triggered the sense of loss, because I still have those positive memories. That time I did start thinking about what it was like coming home to her.

So I am thinking that sometimes I encounter triggers of memories of the good times... . :)  

Hi Mike,

At the moment, I only have negative triggers, with regard to the replacement. Those really stink. Similar to yours, she met him while checking out yet another of the places she just had to move to. It was a constant in our relationship, where she was no longer happy here and had to leave and she would just hit me one day with, I am moving to NY or SF or... .any move for me would have been very difficult because I have a 13 year old son here, but I loved her so it killed me every time. When I reacted she would say, no problem you can come visit me in the summer or something to that effect. After having been together for 2 years. Like it would be no big deal to just up and leave me, without a care in the world.

This last one was to a town in the South East. I had just lost a job with a tech start up that went belly up and was now ready to think about moving. We were talking about houses etc. She had an itch and had to scratch it, she needed to see the town. I had to watch my money (given I was still paying most of our bills.), so I couldn't afford to take the trip at that point.  It was her first Air BnB stay. She called me every night with I love you's miss you's.

However she met some guy by accident, one day while out, and had lunch with him. How inappropriate is that? I wouldn't do it, if I was alone, in some town, in a committed relationship. I mean I guess if it was a partner I trusted, it would be fine but not her.

When she told me, after getting home, I didn't make a huge deal of it but said that it didn't really seem right? She told me I was, once again making a big deal out of nothing, yet, who turned out to be the replacement? Him.

The only bonus is that he lives a thousand miles from here, still lives with his "ex wife" and kids. They have met a couple of times out of town. She is planning on leaving town (good) but says it will be to the other coast or whatever.

Sorry, I needed to get that out because you reminded me of association. Anyway, now, every time I see an ad for air b n b I get this anxious punch, the same way I do when I see the state in question.

But I understand the positive associations too, but rather right now they are just memories, because I have kept no reminders of her. I remember some very nice moments, though, but race in my head to replace them with bad ones.

Thank you and I am sorry. These associations, whether they be positive or negative are hellish.

I work from home, that doesn't help although, next week, I am going to just get out into the field and keep myself out there.[/quote]
I also work from home... .I wonder if I had the distraction of people in an office, a work family that knew and was able to assuage me, if that would have better assisted int he coping process at all. Its just fodder for thought... .

I am 6 months out since b/e with NC (her NC) immediate. At the 3 month mark I was still getting hit with this sort of emotion without any real trigger, it just happened as you describe. I am not sure what, if anything happened in between - maybe just time and distance - but I really don't think about HER at all. Consequently, I don't have those feelings of an elephant having sat on my soul or the pit in my stomach.

Now, my focus has evolved in the future and putting my life back together sans fiance'. It's amazing how disruptive this has been and how even minutiae of detail in terms of my life outlook need to be redrafted. If anything, the sad moment that I have are because of the loss of the relationship, not her and anything inherently wonderful that she was or things that she did (interestingly, I found that upon final analysis, there was neither: I was a host and she and her son were parasites, nothing more and nothing less).

Speaking from my own perspective, time doing nothing is the enemy: the mind wanders and it will inexorably find itself right where you don't want you r mind to be. I have tried to fill every waking hour with activity even if it is pointless. This has been a big part of what I have relied on towards making me feel better.

Hang in there

With regard to the replacement though, the thoughts now populating my little brain are "hey, good luck buddy, I don't think you know what you have gotten yourself into, if she happens to be moving to your home town, whoa, you in for a rude awakening" =)

Thanks JRT! Yes, working from home with plenty of time to think can set the mind running in the wrong direction. I have to fix that, stat.

I do miss the communication though, because when everything was calm, it was nice, so much in common. But then something would send things south, inevitably. Sorry, lingering thoughts. That is what I miss. The total package though was just too hard. Thanks for listening.

I would like to retract my vindictive comment regarding the replacement.

I am trying to make it easier on myself by picturing a difficult time for them both and this is not who I am. It was a childish knee jerk reaction to my anger and disappointment that, despite my knowing it's the best thing for me, how she could meet some guy, have lunch with him, go back to the hotel tell me how much she loves and misses me that same night and then basically line him up as a replacement, after I spent 4 years doing almost everything, pulling her out of hell, putting a roof over her head, taking care of her dogs, paying the bills which left me with little funds to do the nice things like vacations etc.

Anyway, I don't like that kind of commentary coming from me. I still love this woman despite everything, so I apologize.

Well, you DO have a right to be angry and to express that anger (as long as you don't go and shoot someone or do something crazy). For me, accepting anger and expressing it were the REAL turning point in my recovery. I think that you can still be angry and love her at the same time.

Thank you JRT. I am not the type to act. I didn't even snoop on my ex.

I am no push over but I have strict ethical boundaries when it comes to how I treat others.

Thank you for taking that guilt off of my plate. What I might think in my head and what I express outwardly, especially in such a public forum, should be very different and I felt quite embarrassed about that post. I wasn't able to get to the modify button fast enough.  

I am really quite exhausted from this mind screw but you guys are helping me a great deal. Thank you again.  

You are not alone... .

Good thoughts here.  My take on it: Why shouldn't we experience such waves of emotion, of sadness, the cycles?  To experience a full range of emotions, isn't that what it means to be human?  To experience life.  I would think it a great tragedy to go thru life only experiencing joy, or only sadness.  There is no light without the dark.

Of course, that may sound trite in our darkest moments.  But it's those moments that push us forward.  Those moments from which we reflect, from which we grow.  That force us to become who we were meant to be.  If we didn't have them, would it not mean that we're simply repressing the thoughts, the feelings? Burying them deep down beneath. Better to have them, I think.  They are simply signposts that indicate we are on the right path.  That we are not lost.  Annoying as that might be.  Part of the process.

The only way out, is through

Thanks Copperfox and JRT, yes, indeed it's part of the process, but I want it to be over. Know what I mean?

I don't think that my grief was this hard core when my ex wife and I divorced after 20 years. She did the same thing to me, found a replacement. But after I got over the initial shock and, yes, pain, at least there I could reason the end and that my ex wife and I had grown apart, were on different paths. No such reasoning here, especially when my ex wife and I did have our issues and worked through them, over the years. There was discussion and admission of guilt and a commitment to work on things. I bore plenty of guilt, for that failure. We both did.

Yes, ultimately it is healthy to feel as we do and not healthy to bury and ultimately not feel, as our exBPD's do. I will come out of this, it's only been a week since the short weekend together recycle where I got love bombed and then she retreated. Proof never to play with fire again, for my own sanity.

Thanks again, gentlemen.

I've hashed out a few different thoughts about the breathtaking levels of grief I've felt over the past 7 months.

First, I think that much of the roller-coaster of emotions I've felt are a normal part of grieving. 7 months out and I'm doing much, much better, but I can still be knocked off balance by a wave of grief.  It's often triggered by something subtle, as other people have already mentioned.  A Groupon gets me thinking about vacation, then suddenly I'm remembering my memories of a vacation with her... .and then it's off to the grief races! That part definitely has lessened with the passage of time. Triggers typically do start to fade with time.

I think there's also something really positive about our grief.  Our grief is a reflection of the fact that we are not black and white thinkers... .that we can see shades of gray... .the good in our exes (because there was good) as well as the bad. We are unable to split our ex's "black" - it might be easier... .but then we might also be suffering with BPD.

Finally, I've come to realize that experiencing the end of the r/s has been very much like experiencing a death... .but not simply in the "she's no longer part of my day to day life" kind of way.  It's also been the death of hopes I had for my future... .thoughts of what would be.  It's the death of who I believed her to be as a human being... .she was never the kind, good person I thought she was (although she appears to be so on the surface). I once thought she was one of the most selfless people I had ever met; I now know that even her own daughter comes a distant second to her own needs. I thought she was gentle and truthful; I now understand that she will habitually and chronically lie when it suits her purposes.  I understand it's the disorder, but I've still experienced a multitude of little "deaths"; a thousand jabs to the heart as I've moved through the processing of grief.  

But the good news is that as my THOUGHTS about her begin to change and align with reality, and as I accept that reality, the pain lessens.

I understand you want it to be "over" - I do too.  But the only way out is through.

 Know what I mean? I don't think that my grief was this hard core when my ex wife and I divorced after 20 years. [/quote]
Very much!

I am also a divorcee and that was NO WHERE near the painful impact that this has had upon me. I can only guess as to why. Maybe it is because there was open acrimony whit the marriage that portended and anticipated its failure? My BPD r/s was very placid with little if any disagreement or arguing - I was happy. With my BPD, it was sudden and entirely out of nowhere, I didn't see it coming. She cut me off and continues with the silent treatment; I have zero idea of what triggered her or what sustains her profound anger. I treated her exceptionally well to the extent that her circle gave me high marks and compliments regularly.

As if that was not enough to maximize the hurt, she went the additional step to discard my family and friends on social media and convince most of hers that they should do the same. I still have one or two pop up out of nowhere and hurl some incomprehensible vitriol at me!  

I have been reading about these accounts where they resurface months or years later only to insist to their ex Non's that they are happy... .show off their new partner or announce that they are getting married or are pregnant, all for additional hurt!

This from the person that only moments before the fact, you would have stood in front of a freight train for. Yes, I know what you mean. Hang in there, man!

JHK, this is why I brought the subject up, because everyone here has their own enlightening way of framing their own experience which furthers my own understanding of my own. A close friend, has used the "death of someone loved" analogy before, but your expansion to include the hundreds of little deaths is very true.

It was not until the end and as we progress that each wall holding up the facade has come crashing down, particularly as it pertains to how we viewed our ex's, their belief system, their values and their ethics. I do appreciate that you said that "there was good". This is probably the hardest hurdle to jump, because like you I did see plenty of kindness, genuine caring and a desire to do good. She fought hard to pull back from her impulses, I saw her work through them, she stopped her drug use on her own (I just provided an environment in which it could be accomplished), she pulled back on her drinking after she got into some serious trouble with the law, that luckily was kicked down to a misdemeanor. Anyway, I am rambling. This is the hardest part though, because regardless of her efforts, I believe it was simply easier for her to succumb to it's pull, than to constantly fight against it.

The ultimate loser in it all was me. By this I don't mean that I feel like one but rather that I am the one being punished. Again, I will be fine, but I can't think of another term to describe what I (we) are going through.

Thanks for sharing your stories. It's shocking how much we have all been and continue to go through.

It was not until the end and as we progress that each wall holding up the facade has come crashing down, particularly as it pertains to how we viewed our ex's, their belief system, their values and their ethics.

Yes.  Strangely, I think one of the most painful realizations I had was that she wasn't the person that I had, in many ways, looked up to.  It's scary to watch your reality crumble to pieces.


I do appreciate that you said that "there was good". This is probably the hardest hurdle to jump, because like you I did see plenty of kindness, genuine caring and a desire to do good. She fought hard to pull back from her impulses, I saw her work through them, she stopped her drug use on her own (I just provided an environment in which it could be accomplished), she pulled back on her drinking after she got into some serious trouble with the law, that luckily was kicked down to a misdemeanor. Anyway, I am rambling. This is the hardest part though, because regardless of her efforts, I believe it was simply easier for her to succumb to it's pull, than to constantly fight against it.

Resolving that the good (because when it was good, it was good) and the bad (holy ___, it could it ever be bad) was all inside a single person almost split my brain in two. The extremes of "good" and "bad" were difficult for me to amalgamate into a single human being.

The ultimate loser in it all was me. By this I don't mean that I feel like one but rather that I am the one being punished.

I actually said that to my ex once.  That I had treated her better, more kindly, and been more faithful to her than anyone in her life - but I was bearing the brunt of all the ___ed up things that everyone (including her parents) did to her - it felt so effing unfair.

JRT, your situation sounds horrible. I am so sorry!

No, my ex and I argued, she was a waif/queen (and I am a pretty strong character when my buttons are pushed), one minute sweet and gentle (or more vulnerable), then ice cold legislator and dictatorial.

She had a very condescending sense of humor, which amusingly enough actually got much softer in the last year. She was proud of being a "bossy bottom" as she called it in, in bed. She wanted to rule in the bedroom and when I didn't comply, because I like my freedom, it could ruffle feathers.

I have to admit that life in the bedroom had been very complicated for me, because within a month of her moving in with me, she tested positive for an STD. That shook me to the bone, but she was honest. I really needed to process it but I very quickly said "I am not going anywhere" she was in bed distraught. I held her and told her that I would be there for her. I was so worried and careful. It further complicated things in the bedroom, but no allowance was made for that acceptance when it came to her bossing me around and then, at times, even mocking me. My ex wife and I had a great sex life.

I know, it begs the question, well what was even good about the relationship. First I preface that I have a very strong constitution, while I do defend myself, very little of her banter stuck for very long. We had very good nights in the bedroom and elsewhere but peppered with some not so good ones.

No what kept me there was what sounds like the lady you had JRT, because that woman presented herself enough to allow me to see inside. It wasn't projecting or idealzing, but rather where she just seemed comfortable to just be. Signs of her constant anxiety were there, which I felt great empathy for, but we would just have those days or evening where the stars aligned. Passion, kindness, caring etc. Not fireworks and love bombing. We just were happy to be together in those moments. No one else in the world mattered.

Within three months of the relationship, I had already been researching and studying up on PD. My first stop was Bipolar but while there were signs, the stages were too slow, so I found borderline (rapid cycling). There were of course signs of other PD's, bipolar was present, anxiety ocd. They all bleed into each other.

In other words, I was aware that many of the harder parts ( and softer parts too) were part of a girl that had lived a very difficult childhood. I only spoke with her Mother on the phone, I believe she was all queen. My ex's Father was murdered when she was a late teen etc etc.

How does one say "uh, this isn't comfortable, I am out of here?" I believed that I could weather the storms and did ( 6 or 7 full blown rages in our 4 years together ) all of the verbal attacks and the rest. I know it impacted me but I am not crushed and remain a quietly confident man. However, I am sure that I have been bottling it all up.

As mentioned, in all of this, which copper framed beautifully, it was catching her in the lying, the orbiters, the inappropriate communication with men and finally the lining up of the replacement that I could not deal with. I ignored the signs of inappropriate communication, because she wasn't a cheat, she just liked the attention but it got to me after a while and essentially pushed me into not trusting her, which did kick me in the gut and then she proved me right.

Sorry, this wasn't meant to be so focused on me, although, it helps to roll it all out. The real point, JRT, is that your situation is heartbreaking and I admire your strength. To have what seemed like a wonderful relationship with a sweet woman end with her leaving completely unexpectedly followed by your being turned black, is very difficult for me to even imagine, given how difficult my own journey has been. I am elated that you are here, that you made it through and that you are so strong. Kudos to you, sir.

Thank you for sharing your story.

I felt this so many times. Why would you want to leave the guy who did none of the things to you that others had? that actually provided a safety zone (she often said "I feel safe with you" - I am not sure I could find a nicer compliment from anyone but especially from someone who has spent so much of her life feeling unsafe). Why would you not at least fight for that? I guess the answers are all over this board, that ultimately safety and normal just doesn't feel comfortable to them. It wasn't the norm as it is for us, the way we want life to be, calm, peaceful.

Limbo

Thanks for that... .I can imagine that yours was not very easy thing to deal with either... .I am not sure what would have been easier: 2 years of rages, deceit and general acrimony or 2 years of a great r/s and then an sudden and unexpected assassination of the r/s. Its like a pound of nails or a pound of feathers; we have all been hit hard with something that we just didn't deserve.

EXACTLY!

Safety was HUGE for my exBPDgf... .HUGE.  I now understand it's why she stayed with me for so long.  I thought it was love but I was wrong... .in many ways she was like a frightened child.

The reason she couldn't stay was because the mental illness wouldn't allow it.  In BPD everything is upside down and backwards.

JRT, I don't think that there is a better or worse. When you invest so much in someone, because you love them so deeply and want to be the one who protects and proves that there are good people in the world, the sudden cut to the heart and the way you life your life is catastrophic. It so incomprehensible and confounding. To be honest, I honestly can't believe where I am right now. I was ready for the long haul and was adjusting the way I reacted to her behaviors and it was having a positive impact. However, without communication shared between the two partners... .the die was cast long before.

She did say to me close to the end, when I asked why, she said "you should have thought about that 6 months ago". What she was referring to was a fight we had when she was visiting family for difficult reasons (Mother had cancer and was dying). I felt shut out of the process. It wasn't about neediness but rather that I wanted to hear from her (I didn't call because cell reception was terrible where she was and I didn't want to call the house line with 3 hours difference for fear that I would call at the wrong time), she expected me to call and didn't call me. I didn't get angry but she did and she demanded I leave our apartment and find another place to move. I ended up having a close old girlfriend (we dated for two weeks when we were 16, I am now 47), we remained close friends and she said that I could move to her city and crash at hers if i needed to, I didn't follow through, I wouldn't have but couldn't because I was taking care of her two dogs and would never... .) but when my ex got back, while we were still very tense she laid into me and I said I had spoken to my friend, across the country and that she was willing to put me up etc. (there is more to this story), man did my ex get angry. She said "what, you were going to move in with your independently wealthy girlfriend and leave me?" I said, you told me to get out, that you wanted me gone... .that I believe was what sent her running for the next 5 months of our relationship.

Again, I am purging, I am sorry. Thanks for listening. It stinks. I didn't want to leave but I had a tech start up go bust on me, my finances were squeezed to the bone, the love of my life told me she wanted me gone, that we were finished, I have no family in the city that I live in, so I had to scramble. I told her that beyond leaving her, I was also having to contemplate leaving my son, that I didn't want to leave either of them.

She told me to leave, she told me it was over... .what was I supposed to do?

JHK, I will never believe that there wasn't love or that it was purely in the moment. I believe that there was love but that that love could switch on a dime, if there was any slight or created betrayal.

That what I believe was true love was switched off at the slightest sign of complication or the possibility that we might leave. The defense mechanism is to throw the love switch off. There was simply too much pure emotion in this. This might not be visible to someone who has only been in a relationship for 6 months or even possibly a year, because it takes that long to acclimate, but if you live with someone, day in and day out for 4 years, under the same roof... .they cannot keep that mask off indefinitely and I saw the mask off plenty and there were plenty of pure and loving moments that weren't simply her trying to fulfill a need. She didn't need to, she was secure knowing that I was there for her.

At least this is my opinion. I know that many will counter this and there are so many variations and we are talking about individuals. Feeling safe with a partner, is love and even more so for someone who is not used to having it.

My individual opinion and in no way an attempt to soften my current stance that my relationship is over and that it is for the best.

Everyone's r/s is different, so I wouldn't presume anything about yours :)  This is what I figured out for myself:  I had many of those warm, loving, intimate moments with my ex as well - they're what made the breakup so devastating.  But I am now convinced that her love for me was more childlike; which is still real but different than a healthy, intimate, reciprocal adult love.

She felt tremendous affection for me and she needed me.  But I don't believe she ever loved me the way that I loved her - I don't think she's capable of it because of the disorder.  I'm not being cruel or callous when I say this.

In fact, she once told me in an unguarded and intimate moment that she doesn't think she's ever loved anyone.  I think she understood on some level that what she felt for (past partners, me) was not "love" in the adult sense of the word.

She appreciated how steadfast I was, and how I took care of her.  At least for a while.  Her life improved immeasurably because I was in it (not being conceited). She appreciated that too.

But the emotional immaturity that arises from BPD precludes the possibility that she really loved me.

One more question.  Is "love that can switch on a dime" actually love?

Again, I am purging, I am sorry. Thanks for listening. It stinks.

She told me to leave, she told me it was over... .what was I supposed to do?[/quote]
Please don't feel any need to apologize. I am glad that I can help you thorugh your struggle if my only listening. I wish I could do more.

Your second statement struck a chord with me with something similar that happened in my r/s. On one of the 6 recycles that she and I had, I went back on the dating site that she and I had met on. Upon her return, she was simply livid that I had done this. My obvious argument was like yours: 'hey, you BROKE UP with me'. It seems to be a similar situation to yours but I wonder what they were thinking: were they just firing warning shots not really intending to break up or was there some other 'logic' that was being pressed here?

I don't think so... .

Hello Limbo,

     This is exactly where I am right now.  B/U happened 3 months ago.  I try not to have contact, but I work with her.  She keeps trying to convince me to go get a drink with her.  Some days I'm fine with it... .But lately that is not the case.  Regardless, I am looking for another job.

      I ended the relationship because I knew that I was in a bad situation.  Lately, it has been particularly hard.  I believe it's so difficult now because I did not allow myself to properly grieve the RS directly after the b/u.  There was a time when I truly believed that she was "the one".  I know now that is not the case.  I understand that the person with which I fell in love does not exist; she was fabricated.  It's strange because I know that person isn't/wasn't real, but I still very much lost that person (I thought) I had.  It was real to me... .For a while... .

JHK, I understand your point. I guess what kind of confuses me about my experience were times like when she was away and over the phone she would say "I love you and miss you" It wasn't coming from a position of need, nor was it one of those moments in bed where she WOULD almost be childlike and say it. The former seemed like it was coming from an adult position while the latter came from the more childlike position.

While I have read reams on the disorder and know that the common view is that they are permanently stunted at an emotional level of a 4 year old (or similar age), I have to believe that like all of the variations we have seen on these pages, between one of our ex's to the next, that there are variations in how far one pwBPD has grown against the other. There is no question that the evidence is overwhelming that to a degree, there is commonality right across the board, there is a part of me that believes that the emotional arrest, could roll out in stages, depending on what and at what point in life the major impacts that jarred their emotional development occurred.

For example, while my ex's Mother was clearly very hard on, particularly her, one major impact in her life came when her Father was shockingly murdered, which occurred in her late teens. Her emotional grow may have been slowed by Mom but likely shut down at the Father's murder. To add to the shock of the murder itself, she was supposed to actually be visiting him, from out of town, when it occurred. I cannot even begin to imagine.

I am no psychologist but might it be possible that she has fleeting, short lived moments where she can feel the more mature love (late teen) as well as the child like love? I don't know but one thing is clear, from the exposure I have had over the last 3 1/2 years of awakening to mental illness/personality disorders, is that not even the scientific community has a firm grasp on anything because the human mind is such a maze and is so complex that there are no true definitives.

Note that in now way is my expressed belief an attempt to somehow convince myself that what she felt was true love and I would completely agree that it was likely never the mature adult love that you and I know, but I believe that the emotional arresting could be more of an evolution, than a firm stop at a young child's age.

Let's use an example of say, a young girl who is raised by a loving family and is then kidnapped at 16 and held in captivity by some animal (crushingly sad that this has and continues to really happen). She is rescued 2 years later. She has been forever scared and likely will have emotional arrest. At what point does she revert to when she hopefully and eventually finds someone to love and protect her? or in general?

Sorry to delve so deeply into this. I am really exploring more than I am trying to prove my point. I don't know. It is almost arrogant of me to question what has been studied and been research by scientific minds far far smarter than I, but I am just not sure.

I did feel that child like love but I also heard a completely mature and reasonable woman, that I loved, express her love for me in such a way that it sounded like, even it was for a brief moment, expressions of mature love and caring. A genuine, non crisis, expression of missing me. Again I am not reaching. At this point, it doesn't matter because it's gone. Nothing can bring it back and too much has happened that even if it did, I couldn't put myself through it, so this is more of an exploration.    

Getting there, how long where you with your ex?

I think that I see where you are coming from, and my gut response is to agree that true love cannot switch on a dime. However, I also know that certain experiences certainly could lead the love in my to die rather quickly. So love for a person with BPD could be actual love that they imagine continuing indefinitely, but the delusional experience of the SO crossing one of those love-killing lines is also real to them.

Also, splitting and dissociation are psychological mechanisms that people with BPD seem to use to detach when anxiety and fear of closeness are triggered. So again, the love could have been real mature love, but when anxiety and fear trigger splitting and dissociation, that mature love can be switched on a dime.

Mike, I think that you hit the nail on the head. We may have been in a FOG, but I was not so oblivious to not be able to see real from not real, at least in terms of how my ex was, as a person. 4 years living under the same roof... .however, you are absolutely correct, while love might extend way past minor "injustices" and far beyond for us, I believe that pwBPD have a defense mechanism that auto pilots to the off position at the first sign that the SO can't be trusted (any infraction will do) in that moment they revert back to a defensive position of mistrust and they retract that love, immediately, unconsciously. It just evaporates.

At least this is my view.

I think so. Then if they find that they might have been reacting impulsively to their own confabulations when they retracted their love, guilt and shame can come in exposing their sense of worthlessness, and they then engage their arsenal of defense mechanisms to protect what fragile, low self-esteem they have.

Interesting course... .

In my case, I have more evidence that mine was just going through the motions than evidence supporting that there real love expressed by her... .maybe she loved the situation... .I might say that she even admired or appreciated certain things about me, but I am not at all convinced that real love was present in our r/s. Maybe... .just maybe it was there, but she was fearful of really expressing it for one reason or the next but there was simply little manifestation of real love. She put on a great act though... .(and some times it was a bad act).

Wow, Mike, I believe that this is exactly what happened in my recent two day recycle, I don't know.

The first night she was boozed and love bombed me hard, we slept in the same bed and cuddled but I wouldn't make a move for more because my trust radars were way up.

The next day, she pulled it all back, hard. I wasn't too phased because I was strong at that point, but I pulled away and split after i found evidence of a big lie.

I asked her, by text, to please never contact me again, told her that she prided herself on her honesty and she proved that she is anything but honest.

It was like a condensed replay of our relationship in one 48 hour period.

Why after three months of only a couple of exchanges, after a very difficult split with me running out the door just before new years, without notice, did she absolutely love bomb me? It was like the first night we met.

I have paid the cost of that for the last 5 days. Sensory overload and while I wasn't seeking the love bomb, it was so nice to be so close and intimate with her. I genuine and deeply love her still, even if I know it can new be.  She threw I love you's and I miss you's at me at least 6 times. In those cases, they were not pure but rather the excited child.

However, there were plenty of occasions during the relationship, where she was stone cold sober, when we weren't in a moment of hoped up emotions where she said it and those, I believe, were real and did sustain for as long as it took for me to make my next error. Then poof!

So heartbreaking! I will always feel robbed but... .

I understand what you’re saying.  If you can bear with my (longish) story, I think you’ll come understand that my conclusions about the ways she “loved” me are pretty complex - and you might find some parallels to your own r/s. :)

 

I was with my ex for 8 years.  She was a quiet (waif) pwBPD, so there was no raging (but lots of extremely passive aggressive behaviors). There was much about her overall behavior that I found confusing, but I could never quite “name” what it was that felt “off” to me.

After we moved in together she became especially needy, dependent and insecure.  I loved her so I accepted these “quirks” about her and tried my best to reassure her.  Particularly stressful for me was her hypersensitivity and her hypervilligance – if my mood shifted in the slightest bit she was all over it, asking what was wrong, what she could do to fix it, etc. I now understand it was a trauma response (FOO issues for her), but at the time I didn't understand it at all, and I found it reeeeeeally stressful to try to constantly adjust my moods to maintain her emotional equilibrium. It exhausted me, and quite honestly brought out the worst in me.  Over time my patience wore thin and I was quick to become irritable.  If there is one thing I could go back and change, it would be that. ^

She had an 11 year old daughter when we moved in together and we quickly discovered we were on opposite ends of the parenting spectrum. My parents have been married for 55+ years and I was raised by a strict stay-at-home mom. Her parents were divorced when she was 5 and she grew up with a depressed, sometimes suicidal, sometimes absent (as in a go-out-at-night-and-not-come-home) mom. I tended towards strict (perhaps too strict), and she tended towards laid-back to the point of being neglectful.  We always tried to meet in the middle (and often did), but neither one of us were happy.

Things got really bad in year 4 when she began lying and cheating.  There was a lot about her behavior in the first four years that I found confusing, but I suddenly felt like I had woken up next to someone I didn't recognize – it rocked my entire sense of reality.  Gone was the person I had been spending my life with, and in her place was an emotionally absent, avoidant, dishonest, unfaithful woman whom I didn’t know. I still couldn’t comprehend what was happening and I stayed (in part) because I loved her and she seemed to be going completely off the deep end, but also because if I had thrown her out she would have taken my (then 15 year old) SD with her.

By about year 7 it finally dawned on me that mental illness might be at play.  I began to recognize that I was seeing different “personalities” at different times – sometimes a little girl, sometimes an angry teen, sometimes a pre-pubescent boy, sometimes her adult self.  I started reading about Dissociative Identity Disorder, but there was a lot that didn't 'fit.' Right around this time she began therapy and she and her therapist began to “name” these parts of her personality: Little M, teen M, adult M, etc. She told me that her therapist told her she was not dissociative, and that EVERYONE has these 'parts of self' that can come out at different times.  I understood that in a way; whenever I meet a friend during the summer at the local pool and we play water basketball, I can FEEL my happy 12 year old self come out to play!  :)  But the difference was that, while mine came out only when I allowed it and because I was happy, hers came out unbidden (and for months at a time) as a response to stress.  It was still all very confusing to me.

To cut to the chase, even though she was in therapy she was still being dishonest, avoidant, etc., and our r/s ended in year 8 after I found out about yet another affair. Her behavior during and post break up lead me to these boards, where light bulbs started to go off all over the place for me – especially when I began reading about BPD waifs.

One of the most helpful things I’ve done is read about something called Schema Therapy, developed by Jeffrey Young.  He developed Schema Therapy for pwBPD to:

“….address lifelong, self-defeating patterns called early maladaptive schemas.  Over a period of 15 years, Young and associates identified 18 early maladaptive schemas through clinical observation. A basic premise of Jeffrey Young’s approach is that individuals with more complex problems have one or more early maladaptive schemas, which makes them vulnerable to emotional disorders.

An early maladaptive schema has been defined by Jeffrey Young as ‘a broad pervasive theme or pattern regarding oneself and one's relationship with others, developed during childhood and elaborated throughout one's lifetime, and dysfunctional to a significant degree.’ Therefore Early Maladaptive Schemas began with something that was done to us by our families or by other children, which damaged us in some way. We might have been abandoned, criticized, overprotected, emotionally or physically abused, excluded or deprived and, consequently, the schema becomes part of us.  Schemata are essentially valid representations of early childhood experiences, and serve as templates for processing and defining later behaviors, thoughts, feelings and relationships with others. Early maladaptive schemas include entrenched patterns of distorted thinking, disruptive emotions and dysfunctional behaviors.  Schemata are perpetuated throughout one’s lifetime and become activated under conditions relevant to that particular schema.” (taken from www.cognitivetherapy.me.uk/schema_therapy.htm)

What particularly caught my attention were the Schema Modes.  Schema Modes are “the moment-to-moment emotional states and coping responses that we all experience.  Often our schema modes are triggered by life situations that we are oversensitive to (our "emotional buttons".  At any given point in time, some of our schemas, coping responses, and emotional states are inactive, or dormant, while others have become activated by life events and predominate our current mood and behavior.  The predominant state that we are in at a given point in time is called our schema mode. All of us flip from mode to mode over time.” (www.schematherapy.com/id61.htm)

There are both healthy and maladaptive schema modes.  There is the “healthy adult” and “contented child” mode – but there are a plethora of maladaptive modes.  The listing of all the modes can be found at www.schematherapy.com/id72.htm.  When I read the listing I almost fell out of my chair.  Many of these modes described my ex’s state of functioning at various stages of our r/s.  

When we first moved in together she alternated between “vulnerable child” and “compliant surrenderer” modes. She was also often in “punitive parent” mode – towards herself.  She had an extremely critical inner voice that would continually tell her how (fat, stupid, insert-your-insult-here) she was.  Was she ever in “healthy adult” mode?  I think so, but the appearances of the healthy adult were few and far between.

By year four she switched into (passive-aggressive) angry child mode, as well as impulsive child mode.  Mixed in were bouts of detached protector mode, and that internal punitive parent voice began to be turned outward towards ME. No wonder why I couldn’t recognize who she was anymore!  The dichotomy was extreme, and it made my head spin for a very long time.  I suspect that “healthy adult” was also in the mix, and might account for the times that things seemed to get better.  But it never lasted, and eventually she would slip back into maladaptive modes of functioning.

So, to go all the way back to the beginning of our conversation…... did she love me? Yes, but sometimes as a healthy adult, more often as the needy 'vulnerable' child. Did she care about our r/s?  ‘Yes’ when she was her adult self, but too often ‘no’ when she was operating out of impulsive child mode. In that mode she was capable of bouts of impulsivity (lying, cheating) that destroyed our r/s. Did she care about my well-being?  Yes, sometimes – but sometimes not at all, especially when she was in detached protector mode.  :)id she see the good in me?  Often - unless she was in punitive parent mode, and then I was the meanest, most controlling, most worthless POS on the planet.

I think the truest thing I can say is that she loved me, but was unable to sustain her ‘adult-self’ love for me for any length of time.  She slipped into maladaptive ways of coping so often that a healthy, adult r/s was never sustainable.  It took me a very long time to understand that.

Very thoughtful analysis jhkbuzz. Thanks.

JHK

I read you post with interest and intrigue. My ex was also a waif/hermit (probably) but wasn't passive/aggressive at all. While I imagine that there were problems that she wrestled with whether they related to us, me her job, etc, the only ones that I had ever heard about were related to her son and his various problems (another story for another time). It was otherwise a very peaceful r/s (as far a I was made aware).

So, naturally I think that if she just didn't breakup from out of nowhere then we might still be living together and moving forward with our wedding. But as I read the myriad posts that I have since I have been here, I have more than once asked myself if that quiet condition of hers that did not including raging, cheating or lying (and all the rest of the classic BPD behaviors) was some thing that was subject to change, change dramatically later on down the road given a certain trigger or set of triggers/conditions/environment. If I am understanding this correctly, the article you had posted seems to suggest that a pwBPD seems to move through such modes. Is that the case? If so, what prompts this?

It might also explain her behavior with the breakup and aftermath. If they move through modes, I wonder if mine had done so yet in an express sort of way. It seems that the splitting and painting black usually require some time in most cases. Yet, mine seems to have done this literally overnight when I was not even in town. All was normal in the morning and in the evening, she had already moved out, sent a nasty notification text and blocked me for good (that was 6 months ago). There has been no communication with her at all but there has been SOME indirect communication and some signs and it all indicates EXTREME anger. If I am understanding the concept properly, this must also be a mode?

Apologies if I am barking up the wrong tree with this... .but it leads me to another question: if all of these various schema modes exists, is there any state of mind/situation/specific types of triggers that correlate to a specific schema mode?

JRT:  on my way out the door, will PM you later!

Super! Please do!