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There is an assumption in all of this that the problems lie solely with the other party... .rarely is that the case.

Why do we meet these BPD individuals that drag us through the coals and destroy our lives? Quite frankly, I'd love to meet someone that was a BPD's significant other! Sometimes I like to say why did you choose that person instead of me? As a man reading posts by some very loving, caring, considerate women that have been, unfortunately, matched up to an abusive BPD partner, I've got to say that some of the sentiments that I feel coming from these women are just absolutely astonishing and beautiful.

So why is it that we meet up with the wrong people? Do we need a club that caters to loving caring individuals that are honest and looking for the same things in life but somebody else's?

First off, I hope I'm posting this in the right place.

Secondly, it's mainly speculation out of a curiosity that I have.

I've spent a lot of time reading here and I realize I'm only addressing what I see on the surface, but it seems that great people usually get hooked up with BPD inflicted individuals. Like I says I'm just addressing what I see on the surface. The questions the statements the descriptions, all that from significant others as well as wives and husbands, or should I say ex-wives and ex-husbands. I fall into the category of X boyfriend significant other etc.

Why do we meet these BPD individuals that drag us through the coals and destroy our lives? Quite frankly, I'd love to meet someone that was a BPD's significant other! Sometimes I like to say why did you choose that person instead of me? As a man reading posts by some very loving, caring, considerate women that have been, unfortunately, matched up to an abusive BPD partner, I've got to say that some of the sentiments that I feel coming from these women are just absolutely astonishing and beautiful.

So why is it that we meet up with the wrong people? Do we need a club that caters to loving caring individuals that are honest and looking for the same things in life but somebody else's?

I know dating sites are supposed to do that. So why doesn't somebody come along, and tell me that I'm the man of their dreams, and that they would do anything for me, and look forward to a loving, lasting, lifetime relationship. My making sense here?

I don't think it's fair that a great person gets hooked up with somebody that is just going to abuse the crap out of them and make their life miserable. We could always make more money one way or another, but we can't get the years that we spent with these people back.

Any takers on this crazy theory?

There is an assumption in all of this that the problems lie solely with the other party... .rarely is that the case.

I just think, that if I were single, I have enough on my plate to deal with before getting involved with someone with similar issues. On the other hand, it might be a good thing to consider someone who is willing to be working on their stuff and not denying it.

Regardless, I do believe that any r/s I have- with anyone- and this includes all r/s- friends ,family, romantic, work, can only be as emotionally healthy as I am, and so I am motivated to do the work for myself first and everyone I care about.

I don't want to be snarky... .but there is more than one way of looking at this... .

Would really want a dating pool where your common ground is prior bad judgement to have chosen to be in an abusive relationship with someone who is mentally ill?

Magnetic attraction works both ways.  While it's true that there are disordered people in the World, many people don’t allow them an all-access pass.  If those people do and the entry person proves disordered, healthy people remove the all-access pass and turn away and avoid all contact- cut and dry- boundary-wise, like non-stick Teflon. To remain attached to these people *or* to gravitate to them and not turn away should be under investigation.

If it’s your magnetic appeal that brings disordered people your way, then assume that you respond to these people for a reason and they to you. (Otherwise you’d be wearing a Teflon coat and nothing would stick to you as far as attachment goes- you’d be quite safe in your choices of who you let in and who you kick out of your life.)

And it’s all about choices. There must be a reason that you continue to interact with maladaptive personalities (and don't escort them out of your scope of energy.) These reasons are far more important to consider because they are the reasons that are most sinister to your mental well being.

If you are going to claim progression in your life that, over the years, disorderly people are magnetized to you, then there is a mutual attraction that needs investigating. If you find yourself continually attracting and then responding to those that are disordered- something's going on here.  Reasons?

1) Attempts to be heard by a deaf and disordered person are repetitious and compulsive and it’s all about your identity and voice (that’s been disallowed) from childhood.

1a.) “Maladaptive” personalities are basically blind, deaf and unable to foster change.  They cannot hear you!  *Stop trying.* Quit trying to tell them how to think. They cannot hear you. You do not have a gift- you are not a PD “whisperer.” (note: this is a.k.a. repetition compulsion in altruistic cloaking)

2) Perhaps you keep giving these people another chance to prove you’re wrong. Yes, maybe they just need a little more time to understand their disorder. Is this your attempt to be fair and balanced while getting your voice i.e., “needs” heard? (This facilitates your attraction.) Is it possible that you keep returning to this person to get your needs met because you are conditioned from childhood to return to a person who cannot and will not hear you? (a person that disallows your voice based upon their pattern of maladaptive behavior?) If so, you need to stop.

2a.) Do unto others as you would have them do unto you is only as good as the “do unto you” part. It’s being changed surreptitiously by a cluster B personality into an “eye for an eye” which leaves the whole World blind. (Walk away from your generosity; it’s being manipulated to fulfill the moral misconduct, i.e, “precept” of the disorder.) Sorry about that- but it’s a disorder. Do not disrespect it.  It’s not up to you to determine the outcome of it except for the removal of it as it tempts your own reaction and response.

3) If the purpose of your attraction is to distract you from your own life while complaining about theirs- this needs to be confronted. Denial of your own personal responsibility to avoid these people can keep you focused in blame, never to accomplish your own goals. Meanwhile, you are stuck in neutral on the highway of life while using these people as roadblocks *or* you are allowing them the driver’s seat while complaining that they are driving erratically. This might be a way for you to claim a rocky road, but it’s really not about the road- it’s the passenger and driver, isn’t it?

3a.) You can linger on the side of the rocky road and look under the bonnet of the car, but this isn’t about the road and it isn’t about the vehicle. It’s about the passengers. A paved road waits up ahead and it's yours to travel if you'll just understand why the attraction to giving over the wheel to an insane person (so they can off road into Hell's gulch with you sitting shotgun) exists.

Find the reward you seek when you stay and try to change this person. Do you realize you are allowing a disordered person to determine your fate?  Are you staying just to fight them for control of the wheel? Are you trying to be heard by them?  Let go- but don’t let go of yourself.

Perhaps you’ll hope that the disordered person will determine the road (a.k.a. boundaries) for you. (this is not going to end well.) Disordered people have a disorder. You could call it an agenda. They don’t set boundaries, and they rely on other people to have non-existent boundaries or to let their boundaries down because of reasons unknown.  Now we can re-read #1, #2 or #3 again. What is the excuse for lack of boundaries? (Let’s make them known.)

You lock the door to your house so that burglars won’t come in and steal your possessions, so why is it that you allow someone to steal your piece of mind? (There must be a reason?)  

Did you just leave the door to the house unlocked? Did someone just come in or were they invited in? If they were invited in, what is the reason why they could not be escorted out again? Put on your Teflon coat.  Calling yourself a magnet is just an excuse to avoid responsibility for your own lack of personal boundaries.

From this day forward, you are now going to be an orderly person with boundaries that cannot be crashed. You are going to understand that personality disorders have patterns-and your reaction to those patterns keeps you hooked and you are going to confront your reason(s) for this.

You might want to be heard by a person who cannot hear you. You might think that if you said it better, that they would hear you. Speaking up is important but it’s also important to realize when your voice is NOT HEARD.

Fugeddaboutit! They’re deaf.  If people should prove themselves to be deaf to your voice- they are never, ever, ever going to hear you- EVER.  You deserve better, now put on your Teflon coat and avoid them at all costs.

Here’s a thought- the more you try to be heard by a person that cannot hear you, the more you fail to believe they are deaf and the louder you shout- and try to overcome the disorder. This is what keeps you going back for more as you don’t believe personality disorders are valid reasons to avoid someone.

This is the disordered dance that goes nowhere but down, and someone needs to say- HEY- the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. You have every right to cut off the interaction and turn away and avoid all contact after several attempts to be heard. You tried. You gave it your best. Now, let go.

If you did speak your mind about what you would not allow- once or twice or three times, and they kept disappointing you – they gave you proof of the disorder. Could it be that you didn’t want to admit it as such? You placed a line in the sand (an easily erased boundary) that was disallowed by a disordered person and you wanted proof again and again by moving that boundary to accommodate your disbelief.

Something tells me that you want to be kind to people, but are unaware of how unkind it is to yourself. Why allow these people access to hurt you in spite of evidence to the contrary that proves them to be hurtful?

Sooner or later you’ll realize that the current situation is just a replay of old conflicts. You’ll see that the only outcome is to place a final line in the sand (called stability) and ignore all attempts to breach your claim to your own sanity- this permanent line will allow you to stand unmoved from your position and allow you to deal with the anger (against yourself, against others) as well as the residual anger from the original conflict that will arise.  Sadness comes later when you realize that you were unable to resolve the original conflict as well as the reproduction of it in the present day conflict.  All of this was a repetition compulsion of your own making and you’re going to have to deal with the failure of getting your voice heard.* It wasn’t heard.* You must be OK with that.

If you are trying to get your voice heard- begin with LISTENING to yourself. Be alone and listen. You are the best judge for what happened in the past and you are the best rescuer for yourself. Thanks to this current abstract your own pain from childhood is on the surface now. Seek to resolve it. Be aware that *what you need* cannot be found outside of yourself  in any maladaptive personality- the struggle just has unlocked repressed pain that’s been under the surface for too long so you can deal with it.  You’ve tried to be heard. It’s time to let go of outside validation from people that cannot give validation to you because they cannot give validation to themselves.  Allow for change to happen when you don’t seek validation from someone else. BE ALONE. When you turn the attention to yourself- you’ll see the possibilities of change.  You’ll find your Teflon coat.

On a last note: change comes with great sadness.  Especially when it involves your own personality.

It can be very depressing not to blame others. When you find yourself free from the attraction to maladaptive personalities, you also find yourself free from blaming them for your woes. There is no hit of pain from the addictive conflict to keep you preoccupied from addressing yourself. Oh sure, there will be several attempts to transfer blame onto others- you know this is a process- Doctors, the Government, friends, etc. but when those fail, abandonment depression occurs and reality replaces fantasy.( For the first time ever.) You see, all of this was an attempt to recreate your childhood in a sort of reunion fantasy with your parents. The hope was that you would finally be heard and seen but it turned out to be another attempt and failure to be seen and heard by people who could not see and hear you.

Only in reality, with its stark, dismal beginnings, will you see that the road up ahead looks purposeful- lonely, yes, but filled with possibilities for a new start. And there’s no need to be distracted by the disordered. You’ll just turn and look away when you recognize them.  :)on't be afraid of shutting yourself off from people- it's only with time that people prove themselves to be fit and responsible enough to share an attachment. This applies to you as well- so learn to be OK with being alone. It's only when you are OK with yourself that you cannot be manipulated by others.  

I idealized her as much as she did me in the beginning. We both love-bombed each other. I was first to say, I love you" as a matter of fact. I craved all of that, my fantasy of happily ever after. I remember asking myself, ":)o I deserve this?" And even when I had moments of feeling like things might be moving too quickly, I thought, "That is just just your anxiety and fear of being loved talking; you love his woman; she loves you; this is the bliss that you have been craving; don't blow this."

I minimized the jealousy that she showed for months, and actually felt a sense of validation after each discussion and argument, thinking I had resolved things and soothed her. Even if I felt it was a temporary soothing, it was a validating victory for me, "I am a good guy working through some tough issues, helping this scared woman who has been hurt by men in her past, and I am making this relationship work for both of us." Even when my phone was blowing up with texts throughout the day and phone calls on the ride in to work were cutting in to work time, even by hours, I thought I was helping sooth her anxiety and being a good boyfriend, and for a months after we moved in together, the calls, texts, and emails would end with both of us saying, "I love you," which we both agreed was important early in the relationship. Even when she quit saying "I love you" and much later said she wanted me to stop, I still felt that we were talking about the issues, which was mostly her jealousy at. In fact, I found it extremely validating when I learned though BPD guides to better manage the rants by validating her feelings.

So I definitely had my issues. In fact, I was the first to rage on her. I carry around enormous guilt for that still. I thought for a while that that triggered all of her jealousy and feelings that I didn't  love her. I apologized so many times for that. Even after she moved out over a year later, I apologized for that. I am truly sorry, and maybe I was thinking that if she could feel the sincerity of the apology we could it would ignite that spark again and we could return to loving each other. Let me add that when she raged on me, I felt like I was looking in a mirror at "angry me", and it was frightening. I was blown away. I felt extremely bad for her. I felt like she unleashed so much hatred. And I felt extremely guilty and shameful for blowing up on her. I made a conscious decision to never lash out at her (or anyone close to me) again.

I came across BPD when I was looking for ways to control my own temper. When I initially brought up BPD, I would talk about my BPD traits, prone to ruminate and even rage when invalidated, some emptiness, and some issues with low self-esteem all mostly limited to interpersonal relationship.

I had learned to control my anger, to switch it off in favor of compassion and love for her. I saw that it was me personalizing things and wrestling with my own esteem issues, and I allowed my issues to affect my view of this loving woman's actions. I fell deeper in love with her for calling me on that and being vulnerable enough to show me how hurt she was. I was and am so thankful to her for that, and I have told her that many times. I actually had thought up until I saw her hurt after that rage episode that it was just a part of escalated arguments and that it was common. I have apologize to many people for my past rage episodes now, including my ex-wife.

I have to disagree with a lot that has been said. I did not enter into two BPD relationships because of shortcomings within me. I may have stayed longer than was healthy because of these shortcomings but they are not what attracted me. What attracted me was the lie. They conned me into believing they were someone diffferent. Someone honest and loving with the same values as me. I certainly wasnt attracted to the BPD behaviour that only showed itself months into the relationships.

Is it a bad thing to want to meet someone that shares your values and how will you ever meet that person if you never take a chance. Unfortunately for me it didnt work out but for plenty of thers it does.

I have to disagree with a lot that has been said. I did not enter into two BPD relationships because of shortcomings within me. I may have stayed longer than was healthy because of these shortcomings but they are not what attracted me. What attracted me was the lie. They conned me into believing they were someone diffferent. Someone honest and loving with the same values as me. I certainly wasnt attracted to the BPD behaviour that only showed itself months into the relationships.

I have to disagree with a lot that has been said. I did not enter into two BPD relationships because of shortcomings within me. I may have stayed longer than was healthy because of these shortcomings but they are not what attracted me. What attracted me was the lie. They conned me into believing they were someone diffferent. Someone honest and loving with the same values as me. I certainly wasnt attracted to the BPD behaviour that only showed itself months into the relationships.

Is it a bad thing to want to meet someone that shares your values and how will you ever meet that person if you never take a chance. Unfortunately for me it didnt work out but for plenty of thers it does.

I have to disagree with a lot that has been said. I did not enter into two BPD relationships because of shortcomings within me. I may have stayed longer than was healthy because of these shortcomings but they are not what attracted me. What attracted me was the lie. They conned me into believing they were someone diffferent. Someone honest and loving with the same values as me. I certainly wasnt attracted to the BPD behaviour that only showed itself months into the relationships.

Is it a bad thing to want to meet someone that shares your values and how will you ever meet that person if you never take a chance. Unfortunately for me it didnt work out but for plenty of thers it does.

Borderlines have an emotional maturity arrested at young age. They are not con artists, lacking the capacity to remain plausibly deceptive for any prolonged period of time. It was a mutual fantasy we shared and beleived every single fiber of our being, despite all the clues pointing to another direction. Esentially both parties were replaying their own version of the core trauma.

No matter what issues I may or may not have there is no way I would have entered into a relationship with either of my exs if they hadnt mirrored me. If their true colours weredisplyed I would have run a mile.

There is a book called "High Conflict Couple" about relationships where both people have PDs. One might be narcissistic, the other BPD. Apparently, this is a much more common combination than we might think. Some of these types of "nons" are on these boards, either recognizing that they have traits of the disorder, or in full denial. They figure that if the other person has BPD, then that means they are the non-disordered person.

So the "ex" of someone who is BPD is not necessarily healthy, at least in terms of self-awareness and a secure attachment style with regulated emotions. There are also a lot of people on these boards who are codependent, or call it whatever you want -- they may have avoidant attachment styles, or are in some way deeply hurt by an invalidating family of origin, and the BPD relationship was just one of many unhealthy relationships, although perhaps the most destructive. Many people here also have disordered family members and grew up thinking that abuse and BPD behavior was normal.

People here might be great, but that doesn't mean they would necessarily make wonderful healthy partners.

It's also very easy to seem great on the Internet. My ex has thousands of followers online. They think he's wonderful, may of them are women who wrote me after our divorce to explain how stupid I was to let a good guy get away.

There are people here who stay angry and hurt for years and aren't willing to look at their own dynamic in the relationship, which is the key to healing, imo. They aren't ready to face the hard reality about why they got in the relationship in the first place. For many of us, we got into the relationships because the infatuation and idolization felt fantastic! And then when it went away, instead of registering it as abuse, we did anything we could to try and get things back to what was essentially a fantasy.

It's really painful to be in these relationships, and very painful to end them. But in my experience, it's even more painful to fully recover from them, so I understand why there is a tendency to get stuck. The same reason pwBPD might not want to look at their stuff is the same reason why people here might not want to. It hurts, it's painful, and it takes a lot of courage to do the work.

This lie is what I was attracted to. A like minded person who seemed as selfless as me. A kind and gentle heart.

People with BPD - whose perceived emotional survival is based on the ability to attach and attempt to "merge" with another person - don't normally even attempt to attach to emotionally healthy people with strong boundaries.

The truth is that people who are emotionally healthy and have good boundaries will pick up on the mirroring, love-bombing, inconsistencies, etc., and will want nothing more to do with it. They won't ignore those red flags that we ignored in the beginning of our relationships, and they'll run the other way to protect themselves.

Accepting that we played a big role in the dysfunctional dance of a BPD relationship opens the door for us to discover ourselves and learn how to protect ourselves. That's the gift of these relationships, if we're willing to take the time to unwrap it.

You need to understand how it sounds when you are disagreeing with others about their own understanding of themselves and the relationship they were in.  It ain't nice.  It ain't supportive.  It's like an overbearing therapist trying to force a realization on you that they are personally wed to, and that I would walk out on.

I don't personally feel that it's supportive to pretend that people who get involved in dysfunctional relationships don't have issues that they need to address.

raisins, it seems like you feel that I'm being unsupportive or not nice. If that is the case, then I apologize, because that was not my intent.

Having issues that need to be addressed is not a negative. It does not make anyone "less than" in any way.

A lot of traits of caretakers, for instance, are positive characteristics that the world would be a much sadder place without. Borderlines are often drawn to compassionate, understanding-driven, problem-solving people.

But it's very difficult, if not impossible, to learn how to protect and take care of ourselves without recognizing issues that made us vulnerable in the first place.

raisins, it seems like you feel that I'm being unsupportive or not nice. If that is the case, then I apologize, because that was not my intent.

Having issues that need to be addressed is not a negative. It does not make anyone "less than" in any way.

A lot of traits of caretakers, for instance, are positive characteristics that the world would be a much sadder place without. Borderlines are often drawn to compassionate, understanding-driven, problem-solving people.

But it's very difficult, if not impossible, to learn how to protect and take care of ourselves without recognizing issues that made us vulnerable in the first place.

People with BPD - whose perceived emotional survival is based on the ability to attach and attempt to "merge" with another person - don't normally even attempt to attach to emotionally healthy people with strong boundaries.

The truth is that people who are emotionally healthy and have good boundaries will pick up on the mirroring, love-bombing, inconsistencies, etc., and will want nothing more to do with it. They won't ignore those red flags that we ignored in the beginning of our relationships, and they'll run the other way to protect themselves.

Accepting that we played a big role in the dysfunctional dance of a BPD relationship opens the door for us to discover ourselves and learn how to protect ourselves. That's the gift of these relationships, if we're willing to take the time to unwrap it.

She taught me well that too much hope and patience in the wrong situation is a detriment to one's self. Lesson learned.

She taught me well that too much hope and patience in the wrong situation is a detriment to one's self. Lesson learned.

Yes, it's better to fall in love with a person than their perceived potential.  

Here we all are, survivors of shtty relationships, some of them highly dysfunctional for a long time, some of them not so much of either, yet we all ended up here chatting for a reason, so we might as well make the experience mean something positive that serves us, and maybe pick up a tidbit of wisdom along the way.  Our future relationships will benefit.

I don't agree that one is essentially emotionally unhealthy if they enter into a relationship with a pwBPD. The above argument assumes that the Non, from the beginning, knows that the red flag behavior is permanent. Usually the problematic (deal breaking) manifestations of the disorder are not revealed until after the relationship is established. In the beginning, if I would have experienced what I did at the 3-4 month mark I would have never entered the relationship, emotional bonds would not have been formed. I was fooled/lied to/overwhelmed/whatever you want to call it; my decision making process was "gamed" from the beginning, bad information/lack of information generates bad decisions.

With all that said, did I see and ignore red flags? I only saw and ignored more than I care to count (I did see them in real time, going in.). Did I stay in longer than I should have? Absolutely! But I did those things out of hope and patience. I had hope that she'd eventually straighten out, thereby allowing us to move forward. I patiently stayed in to give the aforementioned prospect a chance to materialize. (While all of this was occurring I had never even heard of BPD. I thought her odd behavior was temporary; I had no idea that what I was witnessing/experiencing was a disorder.)

At the 8 month mark I finally accepted that things were just not going to work between us. I terminated the relationship and have since then practiced strict NC on my end. My weakness, my fault, was too much hope and patience. She taught me well that too much hope and patience in the wrong situation is a detriment to one's self. Lesson learned.

I don't agree that one is essentially emotionally unhealthy if they enter into a relationship with a pwBPD. The above argument assumes that the Non, from the beginning, knows that the red flag behavior is permanent. Usually the problematic (deal breaking) manifestations of the disorder are not revealed until after the relationship is established. In the beginning, if I would have experienced what I did at the 3-4 month mark I would have never entered the relationship, emotional bonds would not have been formed. I was fooled/lied to/overwhelmed/whatever you want to call it; my decision making process was "gamed" from the beginning, bad information/lack of information generates bad decisions.

With all that said, did I see and ignore red flags? I only saw and ignored more than I care to count (I did see them in real time, going in.). Did I stay in longer than I should have? Absolutely! But I did those things out of hope and patience. I had hope that she'd eventually straighten out, thereby allowing us to move forward. I patiently stayed in to give the aforementioned prospect a chance to materialize. (While all of this was occurring I had never even heard of BPD. I thought her odd behavior was temporary; I had no idea that what I was witnessing/experiencing was a disorder.)

At the 8 month mark I finally accepted that things were just not going to work between us. I terminated the relationship and have since then practiced strict NC on my end. My weakness, my fault, was too much hope and patience. She taught me well that too much hope and patience in the wrong situation is a detriment to one's self. Lesson learned.

I don't agree that one is essentially emotionally unhealthy if they enter into a relationship with a pwBPD. The above argument assumes that the Non, from the beginning, knows that the red flag behavior is permanent. Usually the problematic (deal breaking) manifestations of the disorder are not revealed until after the relationship is established. In the beginning, if I would have experienced what I did at the 3-4 month mark I would have never entered the relationship, emotional bonds would not have been formed. I was fooled/lied to/overwhelmed/whatever you want to call it; my decision making process was "gamed" from the beginning, bad information/lack of information generates bad decisions.

With all that said, did I see and ignore red flags? I only saw and ignored more than I care to count (I did see them in real time, going in.). Did I stay in longer than I should have? Absolutely! But I did those things out of hope and patience. I had hope that she'd eventually straighten out, thereby allowing us to move forward. I patiently stayed in to give the aforementioned prospect a chance to materialize. (While all of this was occurring I had never even heard of BPD. I thought her odd behavior was temporary; I had no idea that what I was witnessing/experiencing was a disorder.)

At the 8 month mark I finally accepted that things were just not going to work between us. I terminated the relationship and have since then practiced strict NC on my end. My weakness, my fault, was too much hope and patience. She taught me well that too much hope and patience in the wrong situation is a detriment to one's self. Lesson learned.

Reading your post over again, it strikes me that so much of the anger I feel towards myself stems from judging the relationship with the benefit of hindsight.

I have to disagree with a lot that has been said. I did not enter into two BPD relationships because of shortcomings within me. I may have stayed longer than was healthy because of these shortcomings but they are not what attracted me. What attracted me was the lie. They conned me into believing they were someone diffferent. Someone honest and loving with the same values as me. I certainly wasnt attracted to the BPD behaviour that only showed itself months into the relationships.

Is it a bad thing to want to meet someone that shares your values and how will you ever meet that person if you never take a chance. Unfortunately for me it didnt work out but for plenty of thers it does.

It's about learning what patterns of relating to people you have, especially intimate romantic partners.

Time to change up a bit and tweak things so you don't end up in another abusive relationship.

Don't worry about whether you are damaged or not damaged, good or bad, have issues or no issues. Look at the patterns. Try to understand what happens in healthy relationships and focus on that. Compare that with what you do in relationships.