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... .and I'm pretty sure she didn't do it on purpose.  One box was her childhood photos, but they were inside a box that had my name on the outside - so she missed taking them.  The other box contained some belongings of her much-loved grandmother, and it was buried deep in the attic.

I think I held onto them for a while because I wanted to have an "excuse" if I wanted to see her - I knew the boxes would be the perfect "cover." But as the months rolled by it became clearer and clearer to me that I simply didn't want to see her. The morning would never come when I'd wake up and say, "okay - today's the day!"  I've experienced enough pain in this r/s to last me several lifetimes; I surely don't need to experience any more.

I thought about giving the boxes to my stepdaughter when she's back from college, but every time I envisioned having that conversation with her ("Hey! Would you give these boxes to your mom?  She missed taking them in the move.", I'd get a knot at the pit of my stomach.  I don't know why... .maybe because the loss of our 'family' has been the hardest blow of all.

So I decided to drive them over to her house today.  She lives about a half hour away and I know she's working.  I have the day off, so I stopped by at about noon and put them on her front porch. Then I drove away.

In the days leading up to today I thought about the things I could add to the boxes. The cards and notes that she gave me in which she professed that she would 'love me always'; a few other unimportant odds and ends that she left behind; an article about Borderline Personality Disorder (!) but in the end, I added nothing. I simply returned her things like the decent human being I am. Without saying a word.

"Often the most powerful statement is your dignified silence."  

Sometimes it's hard for me to believe that 8 years of my life have simply vanished into thin air. But they have. Now I get the chance to rebuild... .sometimes hard, sometimes sad, sometimes exciting.

A friend asked me afterwards if leaving the boxes was cathartic.  I told her it felt more like I was closing the final door.

You did the right thing.  But I would never think this was not done on purpose it probably was.  And she will be pissed at you because she does not have an excuse to show up. She may accuse you of invading her privacy but she is pissed because you are letting her go.

I know it's a common tactic but I really do think it was unintentional.  She made the decision to move out, and there's been complete radio silence for 6 months (from both of us).

Although, if I'm being honest, I've thought about her reaction when she gets home from work today.  Perhaps its mean-hearted of me, but I do hope it rattles her a bit.

That is a very sweet and sad accounting of your day JHK. Letting completely go is the hardest part, along with the wonder if they have moments where they think about us or even wonder if the choices that were made were the right ones.

Just when I think I am there, another wave hits. I don't get it, nor do I understand how these relationships can, as you say, evaporate into thin air, like they never even happened.

You were a gentlemen and handled yourself with kindness and grace. I left things twice at my ex's apartment when she wasn't there. You will be dealing with emotions over the next few days, because even though the connection isn't physical, you will be thinking of her and will likely play her discovery of the boxes in your mind.

Stay strong.

Do you really think so? It was a part of your life and in some way it was a part of your life with the most wonderful and intense moments, you can remember? Or am I wrong? Someone wrote on this board "It was a lesson, not a failure". We thought our BPD-partners are partners for life, but they were just mirrors. But what do we see, when we look in the mirror? We see ourselves. Yes, you spent 8 years of your life looking in a mirror. And you loved, what you see. There was beauty between all those abuse, anger and crazy making behaviour. That's the reason, why you stayed for so long. But a great part of the beauty you saw, was yourself. OK, maybe I'm wrong about you, but that's how I see it for myself. My uBPDex showed me something about myself, I never recognized before, something good. And I was able to see and accept it, because it was not me, who I saw. I saw the woman I love, but in some twisted way I saw the lovable part of me. I saw the best of me in another person and because it was another person, my inner judge wasn't able to butcher it.

I understand what you're saying... .I learned a lot about the good in me through this r/s... .a lot about my character under pressure.  But I'd like to share "me" with someone who can love me in return in a whole, healthy way.

I was married to a woman, who loved me in a whole, healthy way, before I was in the r/s with my uBPDex.  But I wasn't able to see it, because I wasn't able to see myself in a whole, healthy way. What I learned from my pwBPD is to see myself in a more whole, healthy way. On a German website about BPD I read something like: "They smash yourself like a broken mirror and you end up with nothing. But then you start to gather the broken pieces of yourself and leave the bad ones one the road." I was always looking for someone, who will love me in a whole and healthy way. But I ignored, that it was me I was looking for. I have to love myself in a whole, healthy way. And as long I can't love myself, any romantic partner just would be a substitute for what I am searching in myself. 

You did the right thing... .many others would have thrown them away but doing so would have blemished your integrity. I am sure it took a LOT to do that.

I tried to return a number of her possessions that mine left behind. The odd thing is; despite the inherent value of the stuff (many family heirlooms), she ultimately refused (through her sister as she would not respond to me at all) to get her stuff even when I offered it through an intermediary.

This left me wondering if she saw my offer to return her possessions and a act of aggression in which she responded with her power/control and refused it. Or, if she knew I would never dispose of these possessions hence leaving a trail of breadcrumbs back.

One of the most difficult aspects to this mess has been trying to figure things out with little or no information to go on.

I understand that, too.  I was watching a video recently called  How to Heal a Broken Heart (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUOJzK2E-fMe) by Noel Elkrief, and in it he describes something I never considered before. He says that your hurt feelings aren't created by the words someone says to you unless you believe their words are true. When my ex left she was saying, in essence, that I wasn't "good enough" for her. I immediately felt hurt after her decision to leave, but her leaving didn't cause the hurt - it was the split second thought in between that has caused my pain all these months - "if she thinks I'm not good enough, then I must not be good enough." No one with a whole, healthy sense of themselves would have bought line that for a minute - they would have turned and said, "Are you KIDDING?  You're not good enough for ME - your chaos, your lying, your infidelity has cost you dearly - I'm outta here"

But I didn't say that - at least not in the beginning. So you're right - and I need to get to the root of that.

I don't care to figure it out - the stuff is gone and I'm free and clear.

I think that something critical is being missed here, as it pertains to our own "flaws". I think that we forget that these relationships, which we held in part because we loved them so deeply AND because we felt tremendous empathy to the point where we refused to give up, wore us down to the nub, emotionally.

We were completely depleted. On top of the relationship we were also dealing with the stuff that life throws at us, constantly challenging our strength. You roll all of that into a ball and there is absolutely no way on earth that any of us, who were deeply devoted to the relationship were strong enough to fend off anything. I have never, in my life felt this beaten down, the profound loss and the profound sense of failure because we couldn't, despite all of our might and effort, steer the ship in the direction that we wanted to.

I am the first to admit that I have my flaws and my insecurities but I also believe that many of these views we have of ourselves, about our own childhoods has a lot more to do with how absolutely exhausted we all are with the emotional taxation we have been through trying to keep all of the walls from crumbling around us, in these relationships, all of the negative engagement we endured, all of the racing fears of having orbiters and our partners choosing to test our love for them using the most damaging possible vehicles ( other suitors ).

We didn't stay in these relationships because we are weak, we stayed in them because we were bloody stronger than most. We didn't know what was going to come around every corner but we stayed because we loved and believed that we had the power to overcome the odds. The ones who ran from our partners were the ones who were weak and selfish. We may have paid the hardest price but, through my months on this board I have heard from mostly resolute, amazingly kind, loving people. Having a heart so big that we wanted to be there for these people we loved isn't a freaking flaw, no one called Ghandi or Mother Theresa losers. I am not trying to equate us to them but they were no different that we are. They just had a larger mission.

We all have our issues but staying with our BPD partners for as long as we did, in my humble opinion, means that we are strong, not flawed. We were defiant, despite all of the odds being pressed against us. The biggest lesson is that we could never have had enough strength to keep the train on the tracks. I find comfort in that.  

I can agree with a lot of what you're saying as well - my self esteem isn't totally down the tubes.  I am strong, I am of good moral character, I did love her deeply.

But why did we stay when we were clearly being emotionally battered - when other people would have walked away?  Is it really because other people are weaker than us, or because they have enough healthy self-love for themselves to stand up and say E*N*O*U*G*H   I*S E*N*O*U*G*H!  

I think if you re-read what you wrote, but imagine there was physical abuse involved instead of emotional abuse, you'll see my point. Strength and commitment are to be commended, for sure - but not to the point that we must hold onto the r/s at all possible costs... .until we are "worn down to the nub, emotionally;" "completely depleted;" "beaten down" and "absolutely exhausted."

There's something wrong with that ^ picture. I see that now - but I didn't see it then.

One of my favorite quotes from 2010:

"You will eventually accept that the closing of doors lead to the opening of others, and you will wistfully admire your commitment to try and love this person, while realizing the futility of your efforts and still ask yourself the hard questions about why you were willing to love in such a way that you were willing to turn against loving yourself."

Perhaps it's not that we "turned against loving ourselves" - but that we didn't have enough self-love to begin with.

I'm not really sure - I'm still trying to figure it all out myself.

Sorry, I needed to vent. I will not walk away from this catastrophic heartache believing that I was to weak to walk away but that I have and continue to suffer because I didn't want to give up, that I kept up the fight. What do we see when a marathon runner has finished the most grueling race of their lives, we see the crumble into a depleted ball. They can't walk, they can't breathe, they can barely drink water. Why? Because they fought all of the pain, fought all of the urges to give up, they summoned amazing strength to make it to the end and when they got to it, every muscle and emotion let go. For them it was a win, for us it was a loss, which only compounds the agony. Our finish line was the additional pain of having to watch the people we devoted so much to, wanted to much to grow old with, vanish before our eyes. I am not sure if even super human strength could cope.  

I understand your pain - I was the most persevering, tenacious partner you can imagine - I loved her with all my heart and soul.  I was going to make it WORK.  I was going to give her all the love that she lacked before she met me; it was going to fill her and heal her and we were going to be blissfully happy together. I understand. No one could have convinced me otherwise.

I'm not saying we were weak.  I am not weak.  Much of what I did was virtuous. But much of what I did was also self destructive.  I chose to value someone else - not equally to me, but ABOVE me. This has caused me greater pain than I have ever experienced in my life.  And it did not bear good fruit for either one of us. I should have let her go before she became so destructive in the r/s that it will take her YEARS to deal with her shame.  I should have let her go before I became so emotionally battered that I am 8 months past the break up and am STILL dealing with the pain of it. Looking at the reasons why I stayed - ALL of the reasons, including the virtuous AND the more unhealthy reasons - is key to my healing.

Another quote:  "You should not have to tear yourself to pieces to make others whole."

I tore myself to pieces.

I understand what you are saying JHK, but in most every story I have read, there was beauty and kindness in our relationships, many of us saw behind the mask and those of us that saw the instability educated ourselves, which only fueled our empathy.

If I see a bully taking it out on a kid in the playground, I will take that bully to task, but if before I get to that bully I have a preview of the bullies life at home with his drunk Father who beats him every night, then my approach will be different.

Yes, we endured a great deal and we sacrificed but I believe that most of us did so because we were so confident in our own strength that we believed that we could weather the storms. If my relationship had been abuse (physical or mental) every night and every day, then yes, I would see myself as a complete idiot for not leaving sooner, but this is not how things went for me and from what I have read here, nor did it go that way for many of us.

I don't completely discard the belief that work needs to be done in all of us but I believe that it has more to do with our sense of self after the relationship. I managed to endure because of my confidence and strength. I do have childhood issues that I have to deal with and maybe this experience is a lesson for me not to allow myself to care and love so much that it comes at such a dear cost to me, but love is love. Once the heart digs its heels in deep (add compassion and empathy to the mix... .) then simply giving up and walking isn't an option, at least not until either they leave or boundaries that are unequivocal are broken.

THAT^ was very true of me as well.  I am, in general, a strong and determined person.  




Abusive r/s's are rarely abusive every night and day - and my ex was a waif, so her words could be sweet and kind - sometimes. But her actions were emotionally abusive when I look at the patterns and cycles as a whole.


I agree with a lot of that - but my sense is that my boundaries may have been the issue. I endured her crossing my boundaries when I shouldn't have.

I am deeply sorry you went through that too. It sounds like we both stayed for some of the same reasons and that we endured much of the same pain, that we are still enduring. I thought I would have been out of this sooner. I have my very good days and then I have days that are quite rough and emotional.

The "pieces" quote is poignant but I don't believe that love figures into that equation. I didn't love my ex because I felt sorry for her, I loved her because I stayed long enough that she let her guard down and showed me some of the person underneath.

This doesn't make what we endured right or fair but, at 47, there is very little in life that is.

The road we have to travel remains long and maybe, if we flip the script and appreciate how strong we all are, it will make that road just a little easier to travel. You and I may believe that we are strong, but I know a lot of people on this board, who are suffering, who don't. Introspection is necessary but not to the point where it takes over and further weakens.

As always, I continue to have very engaging conversation with you, sir. Another thing that I have noticed on this board is that we are all highly intelligent human beings. It is a true pleasure to be in such company.

"I endured her crossing my boundaries when I shouldn't have."

Yes, on this I completely agree. With that said though, I never just let her walk over them freely. My displeasure, when those boundaries were crossed was expressed in no uncertain terms, but what I allowed to happen was I allowed her intelligence to overcome my objection. She delivered such rational responses at such a rapid clip that it was hard not to walk away wondering if I had been overreacting. It has been rare in my life that I have ever allowed anyone to pull the wool over my eyes but I met my match. She was highly intelligent and was unbelievably astute. Normal people cannot throw that kind of mind bending reasoning at you at that speed. I would always walk away knowing that I was right but damn if she didn't manage to slide in a seed of ambiguity. So I didn't so much as allow her to simply walk all over me, but rather that her reasoning clouded my judgement. Mine was a waif/queen. I dealt with a very harsh critic with a large slice of narcissism, but I am a pretty strong character too. 

Yes, we endured a great deal and we sacrificed but I believe that most of us did so because we were so confident in our own strength that we believed that we could weather the storms. If my relationship had been abuse (physical or mental) every night and every day, then yes, I would see myself as a complete idiot for not leaving sooner, but this is not how things went for me and from what I have read here, nor did it go that way for many of us.

I don't completely discard the belief that work needs to be done in all of us but I believe that it has more to do with our sense of self after the relationship. I managed to endure because of my confidence and strength. I do have childhood issues that I have to deal with and maybe this experience is a lesson for me not to allow myself to care and love so much that it comes at such a dear cost to me, but love is love. Once the heart digs its heels in deep (add compassion and empathy to the mix... .) then simply giving up and walking isn't an option, at least not until either they leave or boundaries that are unequivocal are broken. [/quote]
I really appreciate that you wrote this!

I left her, because lies and betrayals were boundaries that I would not allow anyone to cross.

Thanks JRT. I see lots of despair on this board and rest assured that while I don't express it, I have had my share. But I also see tons of strength. I know that some here have been through the absolute gauntlet and I cannot even being to imagine the damage that they are trying to repair but some of us were fortunate enough to have had partners who did everything in their power to not wreak this level of havoc. They still inflicted tons of pain and losing them has both inflicted more but also has been a conduit to release everything that we held in for the years that we were with them. Our strength stopped us from losing it on them or buying us a ticket to the nut house. In some ways, what we have been through is not so different from the kind of torture that the military doles out to enemy combatants. The mental torture stuff is often more damaging that the physical. We made it out alive and are now dealing with the unravel but also the tremendous loss.

Wow, she just texted "thank you."  I haven't heard from her in almost 6 months.

It was kind of you returning her childhood and grandmother's photos.

Thanks, Mutt.  I appreciate it.

Funny thing is, even though she just texted me, I don't feel much of anything - except this damn cold. I think I'm going to go to bed.   

"I think I held onto them for a while because I wanted to have an "excuse" if I wanted to see her - I knew the boxes would be the perfect "cover." But as the months rolled by it became clearer and clearer to me that I simply didn't want to see her. The morning would never come when I'd wake up and say, "okay - today's the day!"  I've experienced enough pain in this r/s to last me several lifetimes; I surely don't need to experience any more.

I thought about giving the boxes to my stepdaughter when she's back from college, but every time I envisioned having that conversation with her ("Hey! Would you give these boxes to your mom?  She missed taking them in the move.", I'd get a knot at the pit of my stomach.  I don't know why... .maybe because the loss of our 'family' has been the hardest blow of all.

So I decided to drive them over to her house today.  She lives about a half hour away and I know she's working.  I have the day off, so I stopped by at about noon and put them on her front porch. Then I drove away."

jhk,

I find your story of "boxes delivered" to be strikingly symbolic of a story defining recovery/healing and closure. I don't know if you consciencelly wrote it that way or not, but it is there. Below are just a few thoughts/observations.

Symbolically, that "knot in the pit of your stomach" was your "self" saying that you, and you alone, would remove the final ties to your broken relationship. I don't think that you, your "self", could have/would have given those boxes to anyone. I think that you were always going to be the one to deliver them.

I find, see, the finality in your wonderfully pristine simple statement: Then I drove away. Your "self" expressed no emotion in this conclusion. The stark absence of expression is the expression.

Well I don't think we need to pathologize everything.

I think you took the high road by leaving the r/s mementos out of the box and giving her things that may not be replaceable.

Hope you get well soon.

Thank you - the same to you!

Our stories are very similar, indeed. My painful days are fewer, less intense, and further between.  I could barely imagine that possibility 6 months ago.

The "pieces" quote, at least for me, is very much about love - self sacrificing love. I think there are times that I will decide put aside my own needs to meet the needs of someone else - especially because I am a strong person. But there's a time and a place for that, as well as a time and a place to have my own needs met.  Balance is the key; and my r/s got waaaaaaaaay out of balance.

My introspection is not undertaken with the intent to weaken myself, but to look at myself honestly. I can paint a very pretty picture of myself - of my strength, of my love for her, of my love for my step daughter (a huge part of the reason why I didn't walk away sooner), of my character under pressure - and it would be accurate.  But only partially accurate.  It is equally true that I was staying for my own reasons - because I was afraid and couldn't envision being single again. Because I allowed her to cross so many boundaries that my self esteem was in the gutter. Because I loved her (in many ways) more than I loved myself - and letting go of her created a feeling of terror in me that I can't quite describe. I need to look at all of it so I can heal what needs to be healed and move forward into the future as a whole human being who can enter into a healthy, fulfilling r/s.

And so I never EVER end up in another r/s like this one.

Thanks for your thoughtful response :)

I didn't have anything in particular in mind when I wrote it; it was just an account of my day.

I think you're right about the boxes, by the way.  I struggled with what to do because I've been n/c, and giving them to my SD seemed to be the thing I should do - but I just couldn't. In the end, I had to decide when I was ready, and I had to be the one to close that door - not my SD. Thanks for framing it that way for me - I don't know that it would have occurred to me to think about it in that way.

What's blowing my mind the most today is the fact that she texted me a simple "thank you" late last night and I still don't feel much of anything.  Definitely no temptation to respond.  This morning I've found myself thinking about all the devaluing ways she treated me in the last several years of our relationship, and how I hope I will never again allow someone to treat me with such disrespect.

And I'm not angry, btw; I just feel like my eyes are wide open.

"What's blowing my mind the most today is the fact that she texted me a simple "thank you" late last night and I still don't feel much of anything.  Definitely no temptation to respond.  This morning I've found myself thinking about all the devaluing ways she treated me in the last several years of our relationship, and how I hope I will never again allow someone to treat me with such disrespect.

And I'm not angry, btw; I just feel like my eyes are wide open."

jhk,

You are welcome. I am in full agreement with you; I don't see any hint of anger in your writing, nor sadness. Rational sadness, yes, but your emotional self is pretty mute in this thread. Her "thank you" text blew your mind but not you. As I said earlier, the absence of expression is the expression. You seem to have grasped the brass ring, indifference. Interpreted on these boards as being not triggered.

Your hope has now turned towards you. It is a healthy defensive hope. It is a hope which prevents pain/hurt rather than delays it. The latter version is very unhealthy/damaging. Unfortunately, it is echoed across these boards by many, myself included. Indeed, your eyes are wide open. Congratulations on your new you!

Thanks apollotech!

I don't want to paint a misleading picture; I'm not all the way there yet.  And, on occasion, I still have myself a good, solid, cleansing crying session.

But if she had texted me even a few months ago, it would have sent me into an emotional tailspin.

Not today. No more.

"Thank you - the same to you!

Our stories are very similar, indeed. My painful days are fewer, less intense, and further between.  I could barely imagine that possibility 6 months ago.

The "pieces" quote, at least for me, is very much about love - self sacrificing love. I think there are times that I will decide put aside my own needs to meet the needs of someone else - especially because I am a strong person. But there's a time and a place for that, as well as a time and a place to have my own needs met.  Balance is the key; and my r/s got waaaaaaaaay out of balance.

My introspection is not undertaken with the intent to weaken myself, but to look at myself honestly. I can paint a very pretty picture of myself - of my strength, of my love for her, of my love for my step daughter (a huge part of the reason why I didn't walk away sooner), of my character under pressure - and it would be accurate.  But only partially accurate.  It is equally true that I was staying for my own reasons - because I was afraid and couldn't envision being single again. Because I allowed her to cross so many boundaries that my self esteem was in the gutter. Because I loved her (in many ways) more than I loved myself - and letting go of her created a feeling of terror in me that I can't quite describe. I need to look at all of it so I can heal what needs to be healed and move forward into the future as a whole human being who can enter into a healthy, fulfilling r/s.

And so I never EVER end up in another r/s like this one."

Everything you said above might as well have come from my mind. Everything. I was with my ex wife 20 years in total and then within 5 months in a 4 year relationship with my exBPD. I really don't know how to be single, nor do I enjoy it. I can be on my own, in other words I am not panicking because I have no one to love and hold, right now, but this is what I want. This is what I like. I care for my friends and they have their place in my life but I don't have this urge to be with them for any length of time. I like having a partner but I need to wait a little longer, although in all honesty, I suspect that if I were to find someone that it would aid in my healing. Like you, I am strong. Truth is that I had never intended for things with my exBPD to race to the levels they did. Suddenly she was being kicked out of her apartment and moving in. It felt natural because I spent 20 years living with a woman plus saying no would have left her in the street.

Anyway, I agree and feel everything you wrote. Thank you. There have been days, recently where I have said, maybe being on the board, at this point, is triggering my pain and I believe to some degree it is, but then I bump into comments, like yours that remind me that I am not alone. It is quite funny how we buzz through life at high velocity, seeing people in their cars and on the street and often times we say to ourselves "damn, they look calm, without a care in the world, I wish that was me" but if we could peek into their minds we would see that so many are wracked with pain, worried about bills, stressed about a failing relationship, the passing of a parent or sibling or worse child" In a way, we all wear a mask but never in a million years will I ever be able to appreciate what our exBPD's go through every day. On my worst day, I still felt and feel tremendous compassion and empathy. It crushed me when I finally realized what my ex had and continued to face, but my own survival depends on not allowing myself to feel that empathy now. I still feel it but suppress it to move forward. It played such a huge part in why I allowed my ex to step over so many boundaries.

Pleasure chatting with you, as always.

That's the right way to go about things and given how you reacted jhk, should there be a backlash you don't have to be emotionally involved in it. All you did was clear out your house, notice there were things you felt may be important to her and returned them without confrontation. That's the best possible outcome you can have.

People have spoken about the possibility of anger from her with you letting go this way. However, I think you need to be equally aware that it could go the opposite way too. Depending on how she feels at the time and what's going on in her life, she could also view this as you thinking about her and reach out to try and re-engage. Regardless of what may come next, you did the right thing and quite literally left what was her responsibility quite literally on her doorstep so that you can now move on with your life  |iiii

JRT, it's extremely difficult when you don't have info to go on and what happened within your situation. The one thing that keeps striking me with your situation around your ex's belongings is that you continue to keep putting her first. At some point (when you feel ready to do so) you need to look at putting your own feelings first 

She texted me a simple "thank you" late last night. I didn't respond. I believe she appreciates that I dropped off the boxes; especially her late grandmother's things.  She and her grandmother were very close.

I don't believe there will be any backlash - I think it's done.

 

I'm so happy for you, jhkbuzz. You've done amazing work and it's been beautiful to see you on your journey of self-discovery and healing.

You handled this with integrity and compassionate detachment, and took care of yourself first.  |iiii

Thank you for everything apollotech.  I'm going to remember that ^ quote for a long time.  It's a good one for me to remember.

I understand the feeling about the boards - I have had the same thought that perhaps I should "go away" for a while because I don't want to endlessly self-identify as "the person who was wronged by someone with BPD." But I've come to realize that, even though I'm seeing a T, a HUGE part of my healing has come from these boards. The validation that comes from hearing similar stories and the wisdom from the people who have walked down this painful path before us is very, very powerful - so I think I'm going to stick around!

I understand your empathy for your ex - in spades.  My ex had an abusive past (abusive partners, rape) and I felt a tremendous amount of empathy for her - it's what allowed me to put up with the emotional abuse for so long.  And my empathy was so extreme that, 2 months after she moved out when I just happened to see her out on a date (saying goodnight in a parking lot to a guy that had to be around 6'3", my first thought was "Oh god, what if he hurts her?"

This is a woman who lied chronically, had sex with others while still in our r/s, broke up with me via email, and moved out right before I started seeing a T.

!

What I've come to understand is that my excessive sympathy/empathy for her depleted all the empathy and sympathy I should have had for myself.  And discovering how and why I ended up so completely disregarding my own needs and emotional health is my work with my T.

As for the other part of the post: looking at ourselves honestly to evaluate what we want to keep and what needs healed - it's an important process.  At first I was afraid to look; now I'm afraid not to.  There is much I will want to keep; my strength, my ability to self sacrifice, my big heart - keeping all of that!  But I want to look at the rest of it too, because there are definitely things that need to be healed.  Funny thing is that the closer I look at those things the less scary they are.

Thank you! :)  Many of your posts have helped me on this journey of healing - MANY of them!

Sometimes taking a step back or a time out isn't a bad thing at all. After my exN/BPDw hit me with the overnight divorce I made the choice to move out the following morning. Instead of going straight back to friends and family, I chose to take 3 months on my own where I traveled and did the things I wanted to do. Had I gone straight back to my own country, there would have been question after question because I hid the abuse from a lot of people and was isolated from those closest to me. I wasn't strong enough in myself to be faced with barrages of questions. Wish I had found these boards sooner but taking a step back really helped with perspective. Was also fortunate to have a job that allowed me to do that because I can work from anywhere so didn't have to sacrifice anything that was part of me.

There is a difference between us doing something like that, where we see it as a moment to heal, to gather back our strength and to heal. Compared in a sense to what someone with BPD may do and that's to run away or ignore what is going on.



This is similar to my position where exBPDgf is still part of my life in some capacity. You can still be empathetic towards others, even those who have hurt us though the key to it all is boundaries, both yours and theirs. Where I had the issue in my marriage was that like you I had too much empathy towards my exN/BPDw and instead of seeing her as the abuser, saw her as the abused given what she had been through in her life and often made excuses for her behaviour or tried to protect her when she was being abusive.

Again with exBPDgf, I understand why she is the way she is and much of it was not her fault. Things happened in her life that she had no control or choice over so I held a lot of anger towards the people who had caused her that pain. She never had anyone in her life that could say "well done" or "I'm proud of you" so that's the person I chose to be for her now because in truth, I am proud of the positive steps she takes but the relationship side ended when she did have control over her own choices and chose to hurt those close to her.



This is common for many of us here and it isn't a bad thing at all. My worry on my journey of healing was that I feared going to the opposite end of the scale and having a lack of empathy towards others. The key is finding the balance and again it all comes down to boundaries. The way you handled the situation with your ex's belongings shows a lot of maturity and just how far you have come over recent months. That's the right level of compassion and empathy where you were able to consider how important these things are to your ex and give them back and at the same time protecting your own feelings and seeing it as a step forward. You didn't put yourself in danger or harms way in how you handled the situation, chose a suitable time that considered both parties and got the job done. That's the right level of empathy and compassion right there  |iiii

Ohmigod I've never seen that ^ put into words.  I was so protective of her that I didn't even tell her family what was going on... .it was as though I didn't want THEM to think badly of her. Her life (pragmatically) improved after she got into a r/s with me due to my stability - lots of career improvements, home to live in (instead of an apt across from section 8 renters), a car to drive... .they actually gained an entirely new respect for her and I didn't want to destroy that. What I failed to acknowledge was that she was making the decisions to destroy our r/s with her infidelities (driven by the disorder though it might have been); she was alone responsible for her family's opinion of her dishonesty and unfaithfulness if were they to find out - not me.  But I took responsibility for all of it and kept all of her secrets.

"I had too much empathy towards my exN/BPDw and instead of seeing her as the abuser, saw her as the abused."  Wow. YES.


It's sad that they always do that... .




Thank you :)  Yes, boundaries.  

Sometimes I wish that I could be there for my ex - as a friend - as you are doing - but I don't trust my boundaries enough to ever attempt it. And then I wonder about my desire to maintain a friendship at all after having been treated with such utter disrespect, dishonesty and lack of loyalty.  Makes me think I have more work to do.  

My Ex rudely left a lot of her things in our/my home when she left, despite having months to prepare. Part of it may have been to keep that connection, like she wanted carte blanche to return to visit any time (she wanted to keep the keys to the house, but I asked for them back). Part of it may have also been dissociative. Like you, I returned most of it, shuttling bags and boxes over to her mom's every week. I let her come in 2 weeks after she left, but that was the last time. She still tried to come over, but my boundaries have remained firm, despite her waifish comments ("I know you don't want me to come over, but... .". Many months later, I found a small box with stuff she had from a previous r/s, along with an old journal she stopped writing about the time she met me. Other than regifting a new watch in its box that her previous bf gave her, but she never took out or wore, I returned that stuff to her, too. I donated the watch to a charity Christmas giving tree  :)

They're all part of the steps we take to give ourselves closure - yes?  |iiii

I think closure needs these steps. Doing nothing results in nothing, though I think it's ok to sit with our emotions for a while, in order not to invalidate ourselves, like "I should feel like X and this date... ." etc. A year out, and I am still angry. I have the rest of my life not to hold onto it though.

Yes - actions (when you can take them) are really important. People forget that - they think "feelings" should magically change - but it's the actions we take that produce the real changes.

Although I feel a lot of my emotionality dissipating, I understand the anger - especially because my ex cheated on me.  Strange thing is, though, that while I'm working on forgiveness - especially because I think she will suffer tremendously with her shame for years into the future - I don't think I'll let go of my "righteous" anger.  My righteous anger is a healthy anger, a boundary line that says "I won't ever allow anyone to treat me with such disregard ever again." But boiling hot anger - the kind that makes me want to go tell her off and punch a wall?  Nearly gone.

This is a good realization. There is another explanation as to how easily you can fall trap to that belief:

It is what the abusive pwBPD actually believes... .and they work very hard to pull you into this version of reality with them!

I read a description of abuse that went like this: The abuser honestly believes that the victim is abusing them by refusing to let them control the victim.

And the pain the abuser is feeling is very real too. I know that when my wife was behaving abusively toward me, I was always aware that she was hurting more than she was inflicting pain upon me.

So the concept that you had this 'reality' pushed on you and you accepted it... .perhaps shouldn't be that big of a surprise.

And no, none of it excuses any of the abuse.

Those are some really interesting thoughts, GK.  I know my ex genuinely suffered as well... .it was always confusing to me. My sense is that, if I were to talk with her today, she would still view herself as the victim in our relationship.  Even though she lied, cheated, and then left.

And this: "they work very hard to pull you into this version of reality with them!"

8 months out and I am still trying to sort it all out.

 You will get there. Eventually. At least working out which part is yours.

My path was different--I figured out the abusive behavior... .enforced boundaries... .and my wife figured it out and STOPPED it, a few years back. It was some real hard work on both of our parts, kinda done in sequence... .but that was already worked through before I had to process the end of our marriage.