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My daughter went snooping on her son's FB wall and sent me a photo of her that was taken at Christmas time, only three months after she disappeared. It looks like she has easily gained 25 pounds or more since I last saw her (she was already trending that way when we were together). Although when I met her, she was trim and working with a personal trainer but she had more than a passing interest in food. It looks like she is dealing with the b/u by overeating. Meanwhile, I suspect that there is no replacement with the exception of her son (with whom she has triangulated). Given the amount of gain, I would say its an indication that she is not coping very well.

Of all that I have read regarding BPD, I have not heard anything about this: she has passed on a romantic replacement and instead has sought comfort in a food addiction? Anyone have a similar experience?

I think that is extremely likely. I lost 20 lbs last fall. I have put about 7 of it back on since then. But I do find now that when I feel stressed that I want to eat just for comfort. Fortunately I do tell myself get a glass of water instead. But I would say yes, depression can cause a person to overheat if they don't have emotional outlets elsewhere.

As an aside, I noticed last spring before my ex and I split up that she was putting on weight, particularly in her stomach and chest. That is something that also happens to women as they age and begin going through menopause. And that will tick my ex off because she works out like a demon. Just so she can stay skinny. Like her mother.

It's hard to say what the reason behind her weight gain is.

Regardless of PD, non-medical-related extreme weight gain or loss is often reflective of an unhealthy emotional state. Depression and stress can cause some people to overeat; others go the opposite way.

pwBPD often have addictions, and engage in behavior like binge drinking, overeating (or over-exercise), casual sex, etc., to try to fill the emptiness and boredom within themselves and distract from their feelings. Emotional dysregulation can bring on compulsive eating.

My exBPDbf was a bit different - he tended to gain weight when he was most content in life. He associated food with happiness. A lot of this came from his childhood, where food was one of the few things he had control over and that brought him comfort and happiness.

So, it certainly could be a sign of stress and/or depression in her life.

More importantly, how does learning this about her impact you and make you feel, JRT?

JRT, you know exactly who has had this is experience man it's me. I'll show you the pics man my ex has also gained easily over 20 pounds and has no romantic replacement. My ex used to be able to down whole boxes of candies and tubs of ice cream. Hell man last time I contacted her in February she sent me a picture of the contents of her fridge and freezer and I saw the tubs of Dreyer's ice cream and tons of "naked smoothies" (they're good but high caloric) for my own two eyes. I was talking to her about how I was playing basketball every day and I asked her, well what are you doing health wise? Her response: That's nice reece it sounds like you have yourself together, no I just eat all the time" Of course she was telling me that night that she thought I really had my stuff together, but I found out two days later that she had called her mom that same night to ask her mom if she would tell my parents that "alexandria is concerned about Reece." So basically while she was telling me that she was proud of me, she was playing her underhanded "I'm concerned about Reece" deal.

Listen, I don't know if this makes any sense or not, but if My ex has done any snooping of my social media somehow she will have seen that I've lost 30 pounds and look much healthier physically. Dude I guarantee you that this drives her wild.

I bet it's the same way for you.

JRT really what you described in this thread is 100% exactly what happened/is happening to my ex. You talked also about your ex maybe being a "hermit" type. Samqe here.

JRT you are not the only one to have noticed a serious decline in physical appearance/hygiene in their Bpd ex's post break-up. I had another member discuss to me that "my ex, you could tell that her hair was really thinning out, and that the whole ordeal was taking a toll on her body."

And the other fact is, is that I don't think they all get romantic "replacements." Sometimes I really do think they just kind of stick it out alone and suffer. That seems to be the case with mine, all signs Are that she's just in emotional turmoil.

Hope all is well JRT,


Reece

Relevant article: www.borderlinepersonalitytreatment.com/BPD-co-occurrence-obesity.html

Key stats: According to one study done in Massachusetts by Dr. Mary Zanarini of the Harvard Medical School, approximately 23 percent of people living with BPD for 10 years were overweight and nearly 33 percent were obese.

For people diagnosed with BPD, the prevalence of obesity seems to climb steadily over the first 10 years after the original diagnosis. Females with BPD show a slightly higher prevalence of obesity over this 10-year period than males. For people with BPD who do not seek treatment, the rate of obesity at the 10-year follow-up is more than 47 percent.

Point: While we would all like to believe this hype about all BPD girls being super attractive, this is not the case. And if your Bpd ex has been living for 10 years or more with the illness, than she's about 50% likely to develop obesity.

By the way JRT, I meant to say overeat and not overheat!

My ex is a workout freak. She could embarrass anyone with her workout regimens. One year her particular new favorite exercise was jumping onto and off a wooden box. Most people, if they bothered to do this at all, would do maybe 20-25 reps. Not her. 200 reps. And when we first got together she would run on the treadmill, not at a jog pace, but at a running pace for 45 minutes, then do weights another hour. And she did that at least 5x a week. Obese was not a word she knew.

But I will tell you this, which is typical of older parents of middle aged women who work out and are solid as a rock: when she would show them how hard her arm was from working out, they'd tell her you don't want to get too much muscle or a man won't like you. What the heck!

Having said that, instead of eating her pain and anxiety away, my ex would exercise. And hard. I learned early on she used it to deal with stress. I only realize now it had nothing to do with stress. It was more for her anxiety and a way to keep it at bay.

Thanks for your input everyone, as always.

This development took me a bit by surprise. When I first met her, she was paying for workouts with a personal trainer and her weight was not a problem. During our r/s, she gained weight but I really didn't care. Post b/u, I figured that she would return to the workout regime but clearly this didn't happen and in fact. She really wasn't doing anything athletic for a long time but this weight gain shows that not only is she still not exercising, but that she has been turning to food as a solace. This was referenced in 'Eggshells' but for one reason or the next, I figured that she would return to working out.

The real surprise to me is not the food nor the weight gain as those are only manifestations of the unhealthy way that she is dealing with this episode and coping.  Did I say 'coping'? She did the breaking up with me (in the most of cruel ways). She is the one that blocked me from contact. She is the one that called the cops and lawyers as I was 'stalking' her. She is the one that is so upset at the very thought of seeing, hearing or any form of communication with me that she would prefer that her family heirlooms that I have been trying to return be thrown in the garbage. Her coping this way seems to be a disconnect with her actions. What is she so depressed about? I thought that they just find a new supply after we are discarded and happily move on without so much as a mere mention? I am VERY confused!

This tells me that although I was split, painted black and discarded, apparently the relationship meant something to her... .it looks like it meant a LOT to her. So what kind of person does this kind of thing where they break up and then they are the ones depressed? This is a new on on me.

Happy, if I am correct in my assumption about her magnitude of caring about our relationship, this really changes a big chunk of my understanding of, at least, my r/s with a BPD. Although it might be something else that is causing the depression and weight gain apart from me and the r/s, her dealing with it in this unhealthy way tells me that she is DEALING with it. It also changes my understanding of what she felt about the r/s that is not altogether consistent with pwBPD in general. It seems as if I was not a random host that she attached to; I meant something to her and she is grieving. It makes me feel a bit better. Does this all make sense?

JRT, Would you know if there is anything else currently stressing her in her life? We ought to be careful projecting too much onto them that they are "grieving" us or "coping."

Here's how I see it. You mentioned that you were a good partner to this woman. That you never fought. That she just up and disappeared.

BPD is a disorder of shame. There are different reasons why people eat: Basic Survival, anxiety, but also out of shame. Hence maybe she does feel real shame for doing all that to you.

I agree that this might feel validating for you. When I found out that my ex (and I mentioned this to you) that she had put on a bunch of weight, I surmised it had to be because she was feeling anxious/ashamed or both. This was certainly validating for me. however, my ultimate desire of being contacted by my ex is not affected by any of this.

JRT i want to say that I am going to follow this thread closely because everything you just asked in your last response, nearly Wortwörterlich (word for word) I have wondered! Because everything you've written in this thread works in perfect tandum with me.

Have a nice day Jrt, hope i can help.


Reece

Well Reecer, I just don't know. There is really not a lot to her life to be honest. She has few friends so that is uncomplicated and low stress. She is not super tight with her family. She has no hobbies, clubs, interests or pursuits to speak of... .I mean NONE.

Her entire life is comprised of:

-her job (stable and reasonably stress free... .she has been there for 11 years and her boss/owner accepts her for her warts).

-her son... .a real basket case, unfortunately. Though highly intelligent, he is a 4 year old in an 18 year old body. Just barely made it through a stripped down version of High School, cannot keep a job for more than a week, failed community college (he only took one class), has no friends, addicted to video games, got dumped by a young girl he was dating, got thrown out of his dads hose and now lives with mom. She HAS to be thinking that there will be no normal life whatsoever for him right about now and I am sure that it freaks her out somewhat. But remember, he is her supply and is likely the way that she has conditioned herself to go without men or friends for long duration's. 

-her relationship... .there are no signs that she has a replacement other than her son. In fact, she tends to sit out having a r/s for long periods in between men. Even when she does go after one, she takes it seriously and begins to diet and work out. The photo that I saw was taken only 3 months after the b/u at a time that someone would be in the throes of depression, but that would mean a NORMAL person. 

Go figure...

Impulsive behavior is one of the diagnostic criteria, and eating impulsively fits that. My ex- gained a lot of weight while she was living with me, I'm guessing something in the neighborhood of 30-50 pounds (I'm not real good at estimating weight). She had a lot of bad eating habits, but I couldn't say anything about them or really try to help her because she would get furiously angry or upset. It didn't seem to be tied to good or bad emotions, it was just that she would sit down, not move much at all, and eat lots of food while doing stuff on the laptop and/or watching TV, and she could do it comfortably since we were in a nice house and had food in the pantry (and later she didn't even need to have a job).

One who is struggling with a mental illness.

Point taken... .it was, as you probably surmised, rhetorical more than anything else. But it makes my mind wander (as it often does). As you probably have read from me already, I had a very good r/s with my ex. IT was not the classical BPD acrimony and associated antics; we NEVER quarreled. It was the recycles and b/u's that were killer (and now the cut off and silent treatment). So my conundrum is that she had done this to herself and can easily have avoided it (and probably still would have an audience with me) to do her own healing. Instead, she has chosen to take a self destructive route to cope with it.

Having read about how some BPD's cut themselves and what their motivation in doing so, I can see the similarities as to why that and other compulsive behaviors fall into one of the same BPD characteristics. I feel so much pity for her... .

PwBPD tend to "cope" in unhealthy ways, whether it is binge eating, projection, splitting, dissociating etc. This is the nature of maladaptive coping strategies.  Engaging in these behaviors, soothes/distracts a pwBPD's intense emotions.

Depression is very common in pwBPD. The depression could stem from the unstable sense of self, self-loathing, emotional vulnerability, etc. 

As you mention on here quite often JRT, there are common characteristics amongst pwBPD, but individual traits factor in.  Not every pwBPD does discard and find a new supply, although it is common. Also, pwBPD do not always happily move on either.


I know it is hard to fathom, but relationships can mean a lot to pwBPD. Factor out all of the maladaptive coping mechanisms your pwBPD used, surely you meant something to your pwBPD.

Think about it this way, if a pwBPD can have intense negative emotions, such as anger/hate, they have intense positive emotions, such as love/happiness. We experience these intense positive feelings during idealization phases. 

You are thinking of this from a logical viewpoint, JRT. BPD behaviors are completely illogical.  PwBPD break up with others and then become depressed.  Think about it, much of BPD behavior is impulsive and done on a whim without aforethought. When a pwBPD does not have that attachment to soothe, comfort, and validate them, they can become depressed. 

Its funny when my ex left me is was for another guy and I'm assuming they are still together ... her and her kids are th e only pics u can see on Facebook... .She has gained a lot of weight... I am a big workout person and she was going with me and part of her post break up shaming was that I made her feel insecure about how she looks because of me being a gym rat... in any case I was wondering if she was pregnant for while because of how dramatic it was.so just because u don't see anyone on social media doesn't mean there isn't someone. as a matter of fact the only thing she ever put up was a pic of their names carved in wood and I even now wonder was that a test to see if I would Storm back. I don't understand this disorder all I know is I loved her for who she was and that wasn't good enough so she can have her ugly rich old man

The BPDx is looking quite "jolly" nowadays but i wouldn't call her obese (at least not yet). It brings me great pleasure to see her the only thing she had, her appearance, go down the drain before my very eyes. I can't help but wonder that if she was that emotionally unbalanced and crazy when she was attractive how awful she is now.

My sincere condolances to replacement #4 as he's been trapped with a child that probably isn't his in addition to babysitting her other children while she goes to work late nights at a bar. Me sense there will be replacement number 5 soon :).

I feel like Nero fiddling while Rome was burning and i don't feel the least bit bad about it.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply eJuJu

I have been trying to understand all of this through the prism of the poor logic of a pwBPD. Just when I thought I had it all figured out form THEIR perspective (even though its crazy), there is something that comes along and upsets the balance in my comprehension.

Dunno; to me, disorder or not, if you poke yourself with a pin, it hurts. If you touch a hot stove, it WILL cause pain: don't do it! It would seem to me that if what SHE did and her separation from me has caused a depression enough so that she gained 30 pounds in three months (pain), I would think that she would correspondingly do what it took to stop the pain. ie try to contact me. Attempt to return to the only safe harbor she has ever had.

The other dynamic to this, at least it is one that she (or dumpers in general) convince THEMSELVES of is that life with the dumped was horrible. They were evil incarnate and did horrible things to the dumper. Life will be better just by virtue of them no longer being in their life. Most times, they make an effort to improve their lives even on a superficial level so that it looks good to her own people (and even to the dumpee if they should ever connect). But in this case, with the weight gain and some other information that I know about her life coming apart, it is the opposite.

I recall when she would return on a recycle she would tell me that the episode ended upon mere sight of me (not complimenting myself fyi). That my human face upon the episode was enough to trigger normalcy in her. Each and every time, we returned to our normal r/s just as we had ended it. But this fear... .shame... .guilt... .apparently, it is enough to prevent her from doing so?

My ex never said those exact words about seeing me and everything triggering normalcy between us. But the times we recycled, it's as if all the things she had shot off at the mouth never had existed. And I know that because the things she blew up about never had to do with me. It was always somehow related to a family of origin issue. I know the reason she typed the note to me last summer. She knew she herself could not write it by hand and carry through with it. There's no doubt in my mind that's why she did it. She DID show remorse in the past and apologize profusely. And when she signed my birthday card, (by hand last summer, she signed it LOVE, xxx. What sane person breaks up with you with no explanation, tells you they were cheating on you and then signs a card LOVE? And then is upset with you when you bite their head off? No one sane for sure. Sorry for digressing.

However it is a known fact that overeating is a sign of something deeper going on. Why wouldn't she contact you? Maybe the same reason as mine, even though I'm very sure she has somebody in her life, though I am only speculating. It's because they know what they did was a mistake and they, as of yet, haven't the courage to correct their mistake.

JRT, I know you want to fix it, and I know I want to fix it. I'm just not sure, given the nature of this disorder that we can. Having said that, it's entirely possible my ex is completely and totally happy that I'm out of her life... .

Most likely shame is what is stopping her. Many pwBPD have deeply seeded shame. The core of  shame stems in childhood from caretakers who provided an invalidating environment.   For a pwBPD shame can be a vicious cycle; anger followed by periods of shame and guilt, guilt and shame then contributing to feelings of being evil (self-loathing).


This is true, sometimes it is easier to live the lie. If you live the lie, then you do not have to be responsible for your own behavior, thus eliminating feelings of guilt, shame, anger, sadness, etc.  The people who were dumped can do this as well.

Improving life on a superficial level is similar to looking "good on the outside, but feeling horrible inside." Sure it can be a mask hiding emotions, but it can also be a way of coping. Most people, including pwBPD, do not want to project the image that they feel terrible on the inside.  The dumpee can do this as well.  

My ex never said those exact words about seeing me and everything triggering normalcy between us. But the times we recycled, it's as if all the things she had shot off at the mouth never had existed. And I know that because the things she blew up about never had to do with me. It was always somehow related to a family of origin issue. I know the reason she typed the note to me last summer. She knew she herself could not write it by hand and carry through with it. There's no doubt in my mind that's why she did it. She DID show remorse in the past and apologize profusely. And when she signed my birthday card, (by hand last summer, she signed it LOVE, xxx. What sane person breaks up with you with no explanation, tells you they were cheating on you and then signs a card LOVE? And then is upset with you when you bite their head off? No one sane for sure. Sorry for digressing.[/quote]
No worries

However it is a known fact that overeating is a sign of something deeper going on. Why wouldn't she contact you? Maybe the same reason as mine, even though I'm very sure she has somebody in her life, though I am only speculating. It's because they know what they did was a mistake and they, as of yet, haven't the courage to correct their mistake.[/quote]
I wonder if she really cannot... .that there is some internal struggle simply prevents them from doing so... .well, yeah as I type: shame! I get the overwhelming sense that mine DESPERATELY wants me to come back and get her but calling the cops on me on xmas eve was a boundary that she crossed from which there is no return. I cannot risk legal action.

JRT, I know you want to fix it, and I know I want to fix it. I'm just not sure, given the nature of this disorder that we can. Having said that, it's entirely possible my ex is completely and totally happy that I'm out of her life... .[/quote]
how could she be if she is sending you Bday cards? They never detach do they?

Great post as usual EJuJu... .makes sense from a BPD perspective... .I cannot help but to feel extreme pity for this woman... .I wish that I could help her... .:-(

Borderlines attach to "hosts," but that does not mean that said "host" does not mean anything to the borderline. There is nothing in the borderline pathology that precludes the ability to love, to feel meaning in a relationship.

My exBPDbf still grieved the losses of two relationships in particular, years afterwards - women whom he loved a lot (in his way) and whom he regretted hurting and losing. Yes, the relationships were based on unhealthy attachments - and yes, one individual struggled with a serious personality disorder - but that doesn't mean that there weren't two human beings involved, with connections and emotions and caring.



It does make sense. It's a very, very human need to feel like we are special and cared about deeply.

However, BPD or not, her feelings about you do not reflect your inherent self-worth.

What if it were the case that the relationship wasn't that special to her? Even if that were true, although it would be painful, it wouldn't impact the reality of who you are or the fact that you are a worthy person. Relying on external validation, especially from a disordered person, is setting oneself up for anxiety and pain.

Sure, that is one perspective. But it doesn't matter when other feelings of being fooled/duped by the BPD for a 2 year period. Heretofore, but thinking was that I meant absolutely nothing to her. I was nothing more than a host that had no less or better qualities than the next guy. This didn't mean that we are invalidated, but it would mean that we were tricked and had given someone something more precious than the contents of our bank accounts and such - in effect, we were ripped off.

I recall having my car broken into and some items stolen. It was a bit like that same empty helpless feeling when that had happened; know that there was absolutely NOTHING that could be done about it... .the stuff was gone and it was gone forever. Except that sensation after the b/e was amplified exponentially and has lasted for weeks.

I knew that he disappearance had nothing at all to do with me from the moment that it had happened and had no reflection whatsoever upon the type of person that I am or what kind of BF I was to her. It was the very thing that gave me foundation during the healing process. I also have no regrets about how I treated her as I know that what I did for her was extraordinary ( I heard it all the time from not only her, but the people around her). As far as the r/s goes, I get validation from knowing this.  

I understand that you could feel tricked, because of the way your pwBPD left.

JRT before she left you, did you feel ripped off by the relationship?

Sometimes, it is easier being engrossed with the negative aspects of our experiences with our pwBPD and retrospectively applying those experiences, for an overall negative view. This process gets repeated over time and there can be  tendency for us to engage in dichotomous thinking. Many times we do this to self-protect.

Which is easier for you to cope with, the feeling of meaning nothing to her and being duped or feeling that you were special to her?

JRT i've been reading this thread as it updates, I can't tell if your last post had any new content or not, was everything meant to be in the quote box? Thanks. Reece

My response was in bold

You know, this ^ is how you interpreted her actions - it's the meaning you assigned to her actions.  Your interpretation may or may not have any relationship to what her actual motivation was.

What we do know is that BPD is a disorder of emotional dysregulation, and when pwBPD are experiencing strong emotions they have the ability to shut down emotionally.  Isn't that another possibility - one that doesn't include viewing you as "trash" and as having "zero value"?

Fair enough... .but how else could I possibly interpret her actions... .right after the b/u she had an attorney send a threatening letter to me just for trying to contact her the day of the b/u? What other interpretation can I make?

There are other possible interpretations.  How about the one I suggested - that she suffers from a mental illness which includes episodes of extreme emotional dysregulation? That in order to protect herself she is able to dissociate (completely detach from her feelings) to survive?

None of my explanations force you to conclude that someone person who loved you now views you as trash and as having zero worth.

You seem determined to believe that ^

This is closer to the truth JRT, that your fear is that "I was trash and of zero value to her... .that I meant nothing and will never mean anything... ."

It is very doubtful that this fear of yours has any relationship to the reality of the situation.  She loved you, JRT - but she struggles with mental illness, and because of this what SHE needs will always come before what you need. If she needs to run like hell then she's going to run like hell - no matter what the fallout is for you.

No, not really... .in fact it hurt me greatly to think that. But her actions have spoken otherwise. NOW I think that I am seeing that she is very much hurt by her own actions. I can easily see that is probably confused by what she herself has done, but might feel powerless to do anything to change her situation.

I can easily see this... .in fact, it is the most logical (in the entire scheme of things) about this entire episode. It saddens me and prompts my own impulse to help her in some way, but I know that I cannot.

Her GF had IM'd me about her belongings back in January. It was a strange exchange but one of the things that she said was that I 'didn't care'. Of course I did, PROFOUNDLY, but it said a little bit about what she is telling her friends. I suspect that she actually wanted me to dodge the threat of legal action and such... .she wanted me to come and 'save' her... .it doesn't mean that I SHOULD have but I wonder if my unwillingness to do so after the police call was an indication to her that I was finally abandoning her? I was dammed if I did and dammed if I didn't.

Haven't heard anything really similar here: there seems to be a lack of 'exit interviews' with BPD's, lol. Is this a plausible scenario?

I understand that her actions were very, very painful to you, as my ex's actions were painful to me. I wouldn't debate that for a second. It is also clear that you are trying to make sense of a nonsensical situation.  I understand your impulse to do so, but you are going to drive yourself mad in the process, because this is the truth: you can't understand a thought disordered person.  You can't. There's no logic.

I've noticed that most of your posts are focused on her, but your healing won't begin unless you begin to focus on yourself.

If your thoughts "hurt you greatly," consider changing your thoughts.

Try this one on for size:  "I fell in love with a woman who suffered from a mental illness. Although I was good to her, and although she loved me, her unstable emotions proved too much for her to deal with and she ran away. I'm sad and she's probably sad too - but I'm strong enough to pick up the pieces of my life and heal."

Its difficult within the context of the internet and this forum to fully understand some things. If I were applying my logic to the situation, then yes; I would go nuts in the attempt. But I have, I think mostly successfully after 6 months, come to understand the 'logic' of the disorder and it has helped me immensely. I think that healing id altogether different for everyone, in my case it is what has helped me along (among other things).

The thing that I need (and I would argue most of the non's here) to focus on regarding myself, is that I conducted myself very well in the r/s and have nothing to be ashamed of at all. While I remain imperfect, I treated her with love and high respect and would have done ANYTHING for her and did do things that were above the and beyond the call of duty. That I could have done absolutely nothing to have effected a different outcome than this one; the final chapter was written before I even met her.

Try this one on for size:  "I fell in love with a woman who suffered from a mental illness. Although I was good to her, and although she loved me, her unstable emotions proved too much for her to deal with and she ran away. I'm sad and she's probably sad too - but I'm strong enough to pick up the pieces of my life and heal."

I think that its different from person to person. As for me, at this stage I have a different point of view: This is hyperbole but I think it translates - if a disordered person walks into my house and shoots me in the head, especially for no fault or provocation of my own (especially if I loved and gave to them of my heart), I can hardly entertain anything but hard feelings towards them forever and I think thats reasonable. With what she had done to me, I can tell you in all seriousness; I WISH that she had shot me instead, it would have been less painful and if I survived, recovery would have been less prolonged and the scar less deep.

There is no "logic" to the disorder, but I think you are trying to say that you've educated yourself about BPD and it has helped you tremendously.  I agree - my healing wouldn't have even begun without that understanding.


I think you're spot on there ^ .  For some reason non's feel a lot of guilt at the end of these r/s's for their natural human flaws - as if these flaws somehow brought about the complete and utter destruction of a r/s that they were very invested in. It's a common fear and it's not the case.  I'm sure you treated her well and loved her very much.  Your treatment of her did not cause her BPD.


Ah... .but your "hard feelings" aren't really the problem.  The real problem is that you love/loved her - and that you are see-sawing through your conflicting emotions.  One minute you are fearful that her abrupt discard of you means that "I meant nothing and I will never mean anything" (not only that your r/s in the past meant nothing, but that there is no hope for a future together); the next minute you are so (angry? disgusted? resentful?) that you can "hardly entertain anything but hard feelings towards (her) forever."

I think that you are so involved in trying to figure out her thoughts/motivations/behaviors that you are somewhat out of touch with your own emotions. This is why you need to shift the focus to yourself - because you will have to sort through all of your emotions to begin to heal.

I know everyone does it on their own timetable, and not before.  I'm pulling for you, JRT. :)

This is one of those conversation I wish that I could have eyeball to eyeball... .the dichotomy for me is this:

-I am hurt because I feel 'swindled' because I meant nothing to her

-I am hurt because I meant the world to her, she is hurt to be without me and there is nothing that can be done.

I am in touch with my emotions closely, but knowing her motivations impact how I feel (just like if my daughter were to come and give me a hug right now or a freind were to call up to say 'hello', these stimulus make an impact and resoundingly affect how I feel about them.

Thanks for the discourse, it is instrumental to me!

This is one of those conversation I wish that I could have eyeball to eyeball... .the dichotomy for me is this:

-I am hurt because I feel 'swindled' because I meant nothing to her

"Swindled" would mean that she purposely deceived you for years during the r/s and you meant nothing to her the entire time.  :)o you really believe this?  Unless she is sociopathic this scenario is highly unlikely.  

The thought that "I meant nothing to her" is YOUR thought, coming out of YOUR brain; you have chosen this single thought - out of a myriad of options - as the explanation for her behavior.  There are many other thoughts that would explain her leaving but you - YOU - have picked this one.  You are stuck because you can't resolve this thought, and you will remain stuck until you "get" that there is indeed another way to view it.  

-I am hurt because I meant the world to her, she is hurt to be without me and there is nothing that can be done.

This one is tough, JRT, but you have to accept that even though she did care for you, she is an adult and has every right to make the choices she has made.  Perhaps the pain of what she has done in her r/s with you will lead her to seek therapy and healing - you never know.  But you can't save her from herself.  If you could these boards wouldn't exist because we would all be off saving our ex's from themselves.



I am in touch with my emotions closely, but knowing her motivations impacts how I feel.  

And this touches on what everyone refers to as giving yourself closure.  You want to know her motivations, but only she can provide that information and she's not talking.  Understanding  BPD is the closest you will get to understanding her motivations.  This is why it's important to be careful about the thoughts you are assuming to be true - you can decide that, in her eyes you are a piece of trash and worth nothing, or you can decide to put what you've learned about BPD to use and say:



"I fell in love with a woman who suffered from a mental illness. Although I was good to her, and although she loved me, her unstable emotions proved too much for her to deal with and she ran away. I'm sad and she's probably sad too - but I'm strong enough to pick up the pieces of my life and heal."

This post is written by jhkbuzz - I accidentally "modified" JRT's post instead of "quoting" it!  

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

The thought that "I meant nothing to her" is YOUR thought, coming out of YOUR brain; you have chosen this single thought - out of a myriad of options - as the explanation for her behavior.  There are many other thoughts that would explain her leaving but you - YOU - have picked this one.  You are stuck because you can't resolve this thought, and you will remain stuck until you "get" that there is indeed another way to view it.

Yes, it IS my thought but it is not coming from my brain, it is coming from her actions.

You are wrong about this - this is what I have been trying to hammer home to you. Her actions are simply her actions; your thoughts are your interpretations of her actions.

Here's the sequence for you:

• Her action: she left.  Your thought (out of many possible options): I must be worth zero and a piece of trash in her eyes.  Your emotional reaction: I'm HURT! How could I be worth so little in the eyes of someone I love?

But because I have resolved my own r/s (with my ex who left me after I found out about her affair), here's the sequence for me:

• Her action: she left.  My thought (out of many possible options): She left because she was emotionally dysregulated and couldn't deal with her deep seated feelings of shame.  My emotional reaction: Wow, this sucks for me - but it sucks even worse for her.

Now, I COULD have inserted different thoughts in place of the above ^  (and I did for a while but I caught myself and changed them.) These are a few of the thoughts I tortured myself with:

• Her action: she left.  My thought (out of many possible options): She never loved me. My emotional reaction: Maybe I'm just inherently unlovable.



• Her action: she left.  My thought (out of many possible options): I'm not good enough. My emotional reaction: Maybe I'll never be good enough for anyone.

Same action from her combined with different thoughts from me lead to different emotional reactions within me. Changing my thoughts about her leaving was the difference between feeling utterly crushed and inherently defective and finally accepting that she has mental health issues that have nothing to do with me. Part of the shift for me included abandoning the thought that the entire situation was completely about me.

And that's the key:  when people advise nons not to take a BPD's actions personally it's for this very reason:  it's not about you. It's not about what you did or didn't do; it's not about the color of your shirt or whether you're a piece of trash or how you brush your teeth or whether or not you're of zero value - it's not about you.  It's all about her and her emotional instability and how she deals with it in a dysfuctional way.  I know this is hard to fathom, but you are not the central character in the story - she is.

-I am hurt because I meant the world to her, she is hurt to be without me and there is nothing that can be done.

This one is tough, JRT, but you have to accept that even though she did care for you, she is an adult and has every right to make the choices she has made.  Perhaps the pain of what she has done in her r/s with you will lead her to seek therapy and healing - you never know.  But you can't save her from herself.  If you could these boards wouldn't exist because we would all be off saving our ex's from themselves.



well I do now... .realizing her depression via her obesity tells me something different that I had concluded previously... .

And you have just illustrated exactly what I'm talking about with the above sentence. You changed your thoughts and it changed your view of the situation. :)

Sure; I gathered that it is all about her PD. But I still cannot help but to feel devalued by her. And at the end of the day, she holds the gun and I have a bullet in my body, I couldn't take it more personally.

I understand - it's incredibly devaluing. It feels incredibly personal.  I took it VERY personally when my ex decided to have sex with someone else when she was in a r/s with me. But over time I realized I had a choice; to continue to feel as awful as I felt, or to begin to write the story for myself - and that included examining my thoughts and changing them so that I could build meaning from the experience and move forward.

It takes time, I know.  

I'm glad that you were able to do so,

You'll get there, JRT - you will. You're doing the hard work.

And I don't want to fool you: I can still have some rough days here and there.  It is very, very hard and sad to be discarded by someone you love.  I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

My hope is that our conversations today have given you a slightly different way to look at things.  I hope at least some of it has helped.  

 I just want to say that it is possible--I've been through something similar.

I just said to a friend that I was feeling better... .and I hope to never have as hard a time as the last six months I went through were.

They started with me heading to a lonely boatyard where I don't have friends to work on my boat... .and my wife not wanting to be doing such things, and going to another town for a little while... .planning to stay with a friend. The night she got in, we had this phone conversation:

Wife: I kissed the guy... .and there were fireworks.

GK: I'm not OK with that.

Wife: I'm not going to stop kissing him.

GK: I'm not OK with that.

Within the week, she was telling me she was going to have sex with him... .and was mad at me for not being happy for her about it! Within two weeks, she did it.

It has been a loong journey for me... in Jan/Feb, she stayed in a place about an hour from me, and we went to MC sessions. The final session, the MC shook our hands, thanked us... .and didn't suggest any 'homework' or that we make another appointment.

By that time she'd told me that she didn't want to be in a romantic r/s with me, didn't want to kiss me, didn't want to be naked around me, didn't want to have sex with me.

About a month ago, she got the last of her things off of our boat. I'm LC with her, as we haven't divided up a bunch of other stuff yet.

I'm incredibly fortunate that my wife is higher functioning and more self-aware than almost any here. When she left, she told me that it wasn't about me, it was about her. That she can't be in a relationship (with me). She even said she didn't want to be in any r/s, so she could deal with her own issues... .but I'm not sure how long she will hold to that one... .and while I still care about her, I'm not letting myself get sucked into it--it really isn't my affair who she's involved with or what she's doing romantically now.

'Tho I'll need to heal some more before I can hear about it without feeling pretty crappy about it. I was pretty pissed when she just 'happened' to drop a bit of information about the guy she cheated on me with... .a backhanded way of telling me that she decided to resume contact with him. Last fall I had told her that cutting all contact with him was a prerequisite for reconciliation with me. Like jhkbuzz, I still have some tough days.

I've spent the last six months learning to feel some of the most painful things I've ever felt in my life. And now I see that I am stronger and wiser for it, if not happier (yet!)

 JRT, if you keep doing the hard work, you will get there someday as well.

 GK

"I've spent the last six months learning to feel some of the most painful things I've ever felt in my life. And now I see that I am stronger and wiser for it, if not happier (yet!)"

 

I should clarify--I'm not yet feeling happier than I was before this all hit six months ago. I *AM* a lot happier than I was during much of these six months!

if your ex suddenly disappeared as in not telling you ANYTHING just up and left like mine did. She can not get you for stalking. Because anything could have happened.

Thanks GK... I'm pretty close to being there... .the pain is gone... .the curiosity is still there about what happened.

I am very glad... .let me know if there is anything that I can do for you!

That is true... there are many legal tests to stalking and conditions that must be met including the the presence or threat of violence, typically. She could have never had a PPO approved by any judge that is fair minded. I actually think that she knew that I knew that and expected me to defy the threat of legal action - I relay think that she wanted me to chase after her and go through hell to do it (based on some things she had told me during our r/s).

I wonder that about my ex as well JRT. Several years ago she did something where we didn't speak for a few days b/c of an issue with her, I asked her what did you think when i didn't call. Her response was "I figured you just didn't care about me." Now there was no indication of me not caring for her at any time in our relationship. I never said such a thing or even gave visual hints of such a thing. But that is where her mind went. I think we had been together about 5 yrs or so when that happened.

But I also think she wasn't expecting me to let her have it when she did what she did last August. I really wonder if she expected me to cry and beg instead of doing what I did. I also have only contacted her once. No texts, no calls, nothing. She pulled something similar 4 yrs ago, but not to this extent. I told her then if it happened again we were through. If I can't mean what I say or do, look at what she gets away with and how I diminish myself as a person. It's killing me, but I do have to stand up for myself. I deserve that little bit no matter the pain.

Shadow... .

I wonder as well... .I had a strange IM with one of her GF's in January (long story)... .but during the chat, her GF insisted that I didn't care about my exBPDfiance... .If it were this and this alone, I would say to self, 'JRT, you NEED to figure out how to get a hold of her and see if there is any remote possibility to salvage this r/s, personality disorder or not' As it would be a pretty clear signal of what was going though her head about abandonment and me chasing her (I am not entirely above that).

But when I consider the call from the cops, the letter from the lawyer, her refusal to pick up her things, the long letter I wrote her back in December that she returned unopened and the Xmas card that I sent her; subtle hints that my door was still open responded to with brutal and disproportional force that hers was not, it just doesn't reconcile. Especially knowing, now, that she is depressed and overeating (to cope with my 'abandonment' of her); it almost seems like there is a crazy force that is working hard (and losing) against a sane and hurt force that misses and needs me. Makes me sad to think about... .

*mod*

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