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Hey guys.

This is a follow up to my previous post, I'll sum it up quickly : She broke up with me about a month ago, I gave her unconditional love and she broke it off, touching my most vulnerable points. She's a "quiet" type. Tried contacting her 2 days after the break-up, pleading, she told me to stop bothering her. Waited 2 weeks, tried to initiate contact, didn't even respond, requested to follow her a day later on Instagram again (unfollowed when she unfollowed me after the breakup), request denied.

Thing is - every time I try to contact her she changes something, first time I tried (2 days after breakup) - she changed her profile picture on Instagram and Whatsapp (to my favorite picture of her, she knows I love it), as well as her Instagram status. I didn't say a thing.

Second time I try to contact her - changes her Instagram status and Whatsapp profile picture (to a selfie with a new haircut, has her "I'm furious" poker face), I didn't say nothing.

Ever since she broke up with me, I kept changing my Instagram and WhatsApp status to mutual things, quotes from songs she loves, etc. Uploaded a picture 2 days ago saying "Thank you" with a heart, and a short, well-thought message on how I thank her for everything, I'll always be there for her and will always love her.

Today, got the feeling she's cyber-stalking me, logged off when I log in, etc. She changed her picture AGAIN on WhatsApp, abstract selfie in her room (black and white, looks like a drawing), seems almost like someone took the picture for her. I changed my status to "What the heck" and an emoji we once used as nicknames for each other, she changed her status 5 minutes later to 2 glitter emojis and between them - "Nope". I proceeded to delete her from my contacts, made my Instagram private and changed my username there, changed my status back to something of my own and basically going NC on her from now on.

What is she doing? is she fishing for compliments? trying to get my attention? she's OBVIOUSLY not over me if she's playing these silly mind games, but what is she trying to accomplish? me texting her again so she could have the joy of deleting my text? is she "punishing" me?

I must add something - we're both going to the same concert in 2 months, it's her favorite band, she has no friends (at all), she'll go alone, I'll (probably) go alone. If she'll want to initiate contact, that would be a great opportunity.

Any thoughts guys? 

Hi Bassoutcast

The games... .ugh.

Does this cyber-stuff going on between you two resemble your real life relationship in any way?  The same dynamics at play, only in the cyber-way you don't actually speak to each other?

I don't know, have you thought about giving it a little time, stepping way away from the screen (where she's concerned), simply because there's a whole world out there to explore? (sometimes right in our own backyard!) 

Then maybe in a few weeks, give her a call and see if she'd like to go to the concert?

It resembles it in a way that I'm making gestures towards her and show my love and affection and she doesn't exactly say anything... .her I-love-you's were often her mirroring my "I love you", rarely initiating affection.

I did step back, going No-Contact from now on. I have a life outside of her (thankfully, that's how I've been able to pull through this month).

I seriously don't know about calling her... .I mean, she breaks up with me, tells me to stop bothering her, plays games with me... .how would calling make it better? won't it just "trigger" her? On the other hand, I don't want to run into her at the concert if she'll just ignore me/insult me/any other hurtful thing.

Well, if you don't know about calling her, then you won't I guess.  Maybe in a couple weeks or so, after stepping and being away from the drama of the online-gamery, (perhaps with both of your emotions subsiding), it won't seem so strange to pick up the phone and call her?  Maybe it will... .

What do you think? 

I don't know for sure, but I've done anything I could to try to contact her. She knows I'll be going there (I even posted a picture of my ticket on Instagram a few weeks back). "Asking her out" seems weird, especially if she'll say no but will go there anyway and if we'll end up running into each other it'll be VERY awkward.

Right now it doesn't seem like the best idea, but I don't know... .Everyone told me to "let her contact me first", and I really have done my best to contact her, but she's not the type to contact first... .plus, SHE dumped ME, won't it look needy or desperate?

Maybe leave a note at her doorstep with a flower? I want to be romantic, I really do, but I fear I'm a trigger for her and there's NOTHING I can do about it... .but why is she playing those games? isn't she "over me"?

Hi Bass--

OK, you answered your own question back on old thread.

Sure she is curious, in a childlike way and playing games.

What did you say back there: She knows how to contact you like an adult, so I would go NC again until then. She may want to see what you are up to, or if you are going to be a "jerk" (in her eyes)  and wrap yourself around her finger.

Leave her stewing in her own juices! Stay NC, and WAIT for an adult response. Be it at the concert, or at least a phone call in the next few weeks. Plus, this could be a test, which pwBPD love to do.

Is this a good sign? I dunno. Sometimes I think they just get bored and troll the internet-looking to stir up trouble. But it could be that she is thinking about things. Plus SHE knows the concert is coming up, and probably is not super excited about going alone either. I take it you gave her a ticket and she has it?

NO! Notes, flowers, calls, invites! IMHO I think those will push her away again. Patience, my friend.

Remember "SHE dumped you", and SHE needs to be accountable and It's HER responsibility to pull you back in.

Hang in there Bass--I do believe there is hope shown, but don't read too much into this. WAIT for a strong sign, or you risk pushing you away again.

Stay Strong, and keep working on that band!

Rat

I didn't get her a ticket, I found out about it while she was "NC" with me and told her about the concert on the day she broke up with me (she said she'll buy a ticket on that same day), probably won't miss a chance watching her favorite band, considering she told me she watched an entire, low-quality bootleg video of their last concert here a few years ago... .

She probably is thinking about things. Someone who's "over" their ex won't play mind games with them, they would just ignore it or be indifferent to it. Maybe her life's s**t again and she wants to jump up and down on her safety net, which is me.

I'll be the bigger person here, I don't hold a grudge, I don't hate her, I feel the same as I did on that day we had our first kiss, only in a deeper and stronger sense. Her games don't hurt me, they amuse me and give me hope. I actually prayed yesterday for a sign she's still thinking about me - and I got my sign. Guess this is what unconditional love means.

What do you mean by "testing me"? what am I being tested for?

Hi

I think she is testing you to see how much of her game playing you would take which to her shows how much you love her. I highly suggest staying NC for as long as you can, i am now in the same NC zone which he initiated on his bday. its been a month yesterday and i too got all the game playing tricks... .its been 3 years. We havent been friends on fb for over a year bc it was constant delete/ add, delete / add but now hes gone as far as to even block me this past weekend and no word for a month from him. In he past his "blocking" or "deleting" would bring about a response from me... i would text What the heck! Why?... .he wanted that. Thats how we would start our dialog again. It was a way of him to get us to communicate without feeling like he was caving. I think she is doing this to you. I have stopped reacting like i used to and will wait for adult communication from him as i usually do, i have learned to not pay attention to the online games they play (it only hurts you more even though it gives you hope) your hope is to work on yourself and excercise these negative fears out... not easy i know. Even without real communication they can hurt you, maybe think about unplugging for a while. Show her something different, not to scare her to think that maybe this time YOU are done with it all, not a game, but maybe a realization that you ARE done. Give yourself time to figure that out... .thats where i am right now and im sorry its so painful, i know the feeling

Got it, thanks :) I won't initiate any contact with her. actually spent an entire day without checking her Instagram or WhatsApp profiles, I'm proud of myself  :) She doesn't hurt me, I'm just amused by her child-like behavior. If she'll ever want to come back to me, I'm not going to run back to her in a second... .I'll take it slow, and on my terms.

Funny coincidence - I texted a mutual friend of ours (well, my friend, her acquaintance, same mutual friend who talked with my ex when she went NC on me and explained my ex's behavior) 2 weeks ago, asking if she could talk to my ex and see if she's ok (basically spying for me), she ignored that text... .today, after I go NC on my ex, she suddenly texts me "hey, I totally forgot about it. went through my old convo's and saw she's alright"... .funny, last time she talked to me was when my ex initiated NC during our last week as a "couple"... .told her "Yeah, I know she's ok, she's playing games with me" and quickly changed the subject. Told her I was out walking the dog and I'll talk to her later... .I won't :P

Coincidence MUCH? she only initiates contact after something's happened with my ex... .double agent? XD

I'm reading into this WAY too much, aren't I?

Yes ive had that in my situation. Our mutual friend (his business partner) would text me and ask how ive been, come by the club,  bla bla... .i knew every time it was for my ex. And sure enough one time he outright said that my Ex misses me, come by the club " (but dont tell him i told you)" i knew all along it was another way to get me to come around without my ex having to cave in first.  Im the opposite of you though, when he cuts me off, i DO NOT, WILL NOT contact him. Maybe the first 2 or 3 times but i learned quick that he only got meaner if i did. Telling me to leave his house that im weird! So i stick to my guns and i do not contact. I may pace all night, cant eat, cant sleep, just itching in my own skin so ill drink or smoke a j to open my mind up so i can furthur analize us. What im saying is, i was putting too much into this, all my energy, im 38, have a gorgeous 10 yr old daughter, have another man in my life that wants to acthally BE my constant. Yet i cant give up on my ex. Im addicted to how he made me feel... .but that doesnt mean i owe him the best years of my life. And neither do you, time helps, it really does. I think we are on the same time - its been 4 weeks yesterday for me that theres been NC. Im starting to feel not as hopeless anymore, im going to the gym that helps, the problem is he knows just how long to go without losing me completlely and i know he will be back. Just in time to pull me off the ledge of our relationship.  Only this time i might just jump right off bc there are more bad times than good with him and no amount of love he gives me when its good outweighs the pain of his abandonment... so ive chosen to take on newer perpectives so should you.  ive started telling myself how great i am every day its starting to help, he made me so insecure of myself and everyone around me has always told me they dont get it? im the catch and im "above " him. Hes got no house, no money, no proper form of transportatipon, disorders even beyond BPD. actually was a stripper for 10 years, yet i chose to accept him fully for it all and love uncondiationally but bottom line is he WONT LET ME so im going to walk away. I want to be happy, i deserve it and so do you. Stand your ground dont contact her and if she does, be careful and do things at your pace. If you even still want it at that point.

Wow, no offense but he's really childish in his behavior... .all that and for what? a made up ego game?

I understand your feelings, addiction is really the word here... .after we broke up, my mother told me "I think it wasn't her you were in-love with, it's the feeling of being in-love that you loved so much"... .In a way, it does make some sense, but she still has a lot in common with me, and I do know I was addicted to her (and when I couldn't see her behaved the same way a drug addict would if you took away his fix), but there is genuine love for her in my heart as well, and the addiction slowly fades away, but the love is still there.

I won't contact her again, been over 24 hours already since I last checked up on her, I feel better already. Once she realizes I'm not playing her games - then it starts to get interesting. If she'll try to contact via our friend (like your ex did), and our friend will say something like "She misses you", I'm going to tell her that my ex is a big girl and if she misses me, she can just text me (not like I blocked her or anything, it's common knowledge - you want to talk to someone? talk to them)

MyEyesrOpen answered that as good or better than I could.

My SO tests to see how MUCH I love her, even asks for reassurance some times.

Even in public, showing affection and such reinforces in her mind that I am proud she is my girl.

Then, when NC, they want to "check" to see if we still care. Kinda like dangling a carrot in front of a horse, seeking a response. And when we reach for it they (go offline) and pull it away, just to tease us. But alas, they did see the response, and it makes them feel better.

Their whole "leave us before we can dump them" mindset is soo hard to work around, and words and actions won't convince them. In my SO case, I honestly think she has heard it too many times, then guys freak out during a rage and run, or just tire of the daily BS, lack of intimacy, etc. So, in reality, over time, all her men and friends truly have abandoned her. The best they can hope for is a new "sucker" that hasn't read this site or seen the red flags and falls for the idealization phase. The cycle begins again... .

This is a terrible disorder--life has to be incredibly difficult for them. I tried explaining this to our attorney recently, and all I got was a blank stare and a look of disbelief.

Hang in there... .as we have all told you Bass,  I don't believe her r/s is over yet, nor is she "over" you. Recycling is a common thing for them. But let her initiate the contact. THEN you can decide if you want to give it another go or not.

I would like to do a poll some day on the staying board, just to see what % of our pwBPD are currently NC. Maybe this has been done before... .but would be interesting.

MY SO is gone two days again---but I've been down this road before with her... .so I just keep going on with my life. Lonely as it may seem, she will text eventually.

Hang in there Bass! and remember--NC will be your best bet. And that includes lurking on social media.

Rat

Oh ok, I understand, she wants to see if I'll "cave". Really is a terrible disorder, but I'll keep my NC and let her come chasing me. She can figure out by now that I love her, she's not stupid, but I'm done with the games. Probably will contact me in the future, once she sees I'm not hanging on her BS hooks.

My sister (who also has her on WhatsApp) told me she changed her picture AGAIN, this time to a selfie outside with the necklace my mom got her... . probably explains why our mutual friend decided to talk with me all of a sudden, I wasn't "reacting to her new move in the game". Told my sister to stop giving me information about her, and unless her picture is of an open vain or her standing on a ledge I don't really care. She's probably lost right now, thinking "how could he not react, doesn't he love me? did he abandon me?". She has a child-like mindset, and the thing children hate the most is being ignored, drives them crazy, trying to get attention.

Now you've got it----Including telling your mutual and your sister you don't want their updates! Sadly, it plays on OUR mind when we hear news, rumors, or even imagine things. NC is so much harder when friends and social media is involved.

On an even stranger note, I awoke (alone--I'm NC and SO moved out) in the middle of the night thinking SO was crying. Don't know where that came from, even had a shiver run down my spine. Maybe the dog made a noise. I dunno. But it was really eerie for me. Wonder if maybe she was crying, but shes miles away at her place so who would know... .

You're doing great, Bass---

Rat

Yeah , I feel great as well. the fact that she's playing these games reminds me of my cousin in NYC, used to babysit him, he was 10 I was 17, spoiled brat. If you wanted something from him - he'd never give it up, no matter how much or how nicely you'd ask him, and would act out and cry, but if you pretty much ignored him - he'd come seeking your attention, being polite, etc. I'm treating my ex the same way I used to treat my cousin, it's the only way I'll get what I want.

About your SO - could possibly be a "spiritual connection". I believe people are connected, and that you can feel how someone close to you feels if you try hard enough. I had a dream a few weeks ago that I got a notification from my ex on Instagram saying "___ likes the way you're handling this", and another dream where I met her outside her work, dressed like she did on our first date, only with excessive make-up, found out she's going on a date, wished her luck, she said "thought you'd be jealous" I replied "Jealous? why would I be jealous" and that's all she wrote.

All signs shown recently indicate she'll probably contact me someday, but when she does, how do I handle it? I know from what I've been reading it's really hard for a pwBPD to reach out, so "when they try to meet us in the middle, we need to double our effort", but I don't want to just jump right into her arms, she might be triggered, viewing this as needy behavior, and pushing me away again. how do I handle it?

Thats a good step Bass - im furthur in the NC zone than you are, usually the first few weeks are the hardest. What i have found in the past with him is that the longer he goes it affect him is a worse way and the longer i go i heal and can start to breath. Thats why its stupid for them to do this, if you leave anyone alone long enough they do move on... . they really are their own worst enemies. Let her figure that out - give your self time - you will start to care less and less... . Im happy you told your sister to not update you - there is no difference in seeing it for yourself - you need a clean break right now. My therapist told me to not think too far down the road - like, dont get overwhelmed in thinking they may not ever come back - just think "today im ok with it" and think that every day ... . you will find the pain ease just a bit and lets be honest every little bit counts right now.

Rat - i have what i believe to be a spirital connection to my BDex - i could feel him thinking of me, i knew everytime he would text or call - i would feel it coming, i could feel his anxiety and i think thats what you experienced. You felt her energy... . just try to send her nurturing thoughts and forgiveness, i dont know your beliefs but i believe our souls communicate and i often send those messages out to him.

Thing is, I kinda feel that I AM moving on, little by little... . she might actually lose me if she goes down that road, I mean I love her of course but I'm in my 20's, I'm not going to wait FOREVER for her to show up. Not saying I'll move on as soon as someone comes along but I might seriously consider it. She told me "I will never find someone better than you", well I guess she's right. Who knows, I might not even want her back if she'll continue playing games much longer, it's seriously turning me off... . Every time I chase her it makes me lose a bit of my self-respect, and now that she's playing games I got it back big-time.

Everyone deserves a second chance, and so does she, but I'll be different if she comes back, colder, I think. (And I can be ICE COLD if I want to)

Who knows. I'm keeping my options open. 

You're no longer together, right?  Are you wanting to move on or... . ?  It might be a good idea to have a look through the "Lessons", provided here on the staying board.  Lots of info that will help explain what goes on in our relationships, not only with our SO's, with ourselves too :)  Very interesting stuff, Bassoutcast.

She might not be "playing games" at all, she might also be.  It sometimes feels like we're being tested, when many times it's our boundaries that are being pushed up against, on no conscious devious level of theirs and oftentimes not even realized by us-- that we have values we really could and should be honoring.


If you're going to wait for her to call, you answer the phone and say, "Hi", in a happy to hear from her voice, if you are.  In the Lessons, there are communication tools that help us express ourselves, while our SO's feel heard and understand, too... . A win-win!

In the meantime, live your life, do fun things, be the person you're going to be whether it's in a relationship with her, with someone else, or if you're an eligible bachelor for years to come... .

What is it about this girl that you love?

I don't know if I want to move on, I just feel it happening... . I feel less and less of an attraction to her. she uploaded the new picture and I wasn't in any way attracted to her... .

I was going through the lessons, I'm doing a daily in-depth learning, currently at the end of lesson 3. it's a lot of work, but it's good reading material for a stable relationship, be it with a pwBPD or not.

"What it is about this girl that you love?" - that's exactly what I've been asking myself lately. I USED to love the fact we were so alike, she had the same taste in music, comedy, political and moral views, she had a past similar to mine in many ways so it felt like she knew what I was talking about and felt my pain, her beautiful red hair (that she unfortunately cut after the breakup), her laugh, the way she smiled with me, the way she made me feel so much better about myself (confident, stronger, exposing my "inner self", the way she was "always there for me", that she saw a life with me... . but now I don't know what to believe anymore. I know not everything can be labeled as "mirroring", but I don't know what was real and what was make-believe. I want to pour my heart into a relationship that I know is going to last, but she can walk out of the door the minute something seems wrong... . although it did take A FEW of my anger outbursts for her to "finally" call it a day, so she's not the only one responsible for it failing. I did learn to control my outburst, I did change, and I do want this to work out, at least give her the second chance she deserves. We all do.

I know she's hurt, her trust in me is fragile to non-existent, but my hope is beginning to fade away as the days go by... . You said to wait a few weeks and maybe give her a call, but where I stand now it's one phone call away from a possible restraining order... . I seriously want to give her a call, but I don't know what the outcome will be... .  

Yay, excellent that you're reading through the Lessons |iiii


Oh wow, yikes, that's a scary thought!  Has she told you that if you contact her again she'll get a restraining order?

No, she hasn't. She only told me to stop bothering her when I texted her 2 days after the breakup, but she told me that before when she went NC during the last week of our "relationship". I should mention English isn't my native language, and she told me that in our native language which has a double meaning - "Stop bothering me" and "Stop annoying me".

I've been doing a recap of our relationship from the beginning to the very end, and I must say I'm not all "peaches and cream" myself, I have a lot of issues and she tolerated them for a while but considering her hyper-sensitivity she finally broke it off... . when I told her I thought it wasn't fair that every time she's depressed or suicidal or has any other "issue" I come running for her aid but when I need her by my side she just goes NC without explanation... . she misinterpreted it as "you're not putting enough effort into this relationship, unlike me" and she said that this was when she decided to end it with me, no matter how much I begged. She did have a few valid points regarding my behavior, but it was amplified with all these accusations and distorted facts (probably to make her point seem more valid to me, making me feel guilty).

The way she was looking at me when she was breaking up with me still haunts me... . she wasn't looking directly at me, she was looking away and staring at the ground, had an expression on her face that could might as well appear on Wikipedia under "utter disappointment". I know that although she's BPD, my words did hurt her... . she was under a lot of stress and I wasn't understanding as I should have been, instead I complained and had an anger outburst... . They can say "it's not your fault" but it takes 2 to build a relationship and 2 to ruin it, and I had my share.

When you asked me "what is it about her that I love"... . It was hard to think of anything, mainly because it's been so long since I've been with her (yes, to me a month is a lot of time), but then I started thinking about it, and by God, I love this woman, I love the way she cared about me. I look at my room and I see the presents she got me, the paintings she drew for me, her love, and my heart fills up with all these emotions... . I'm actually on the verge of tearing up as I'm typing this... .

I do want her back, I really do... . but I don't know what else to do... . all of those lessons are great but you can apply them when you're IN CONTACT with your pwBPD... . In my case, I'm lost... . I'm 95% sure she's trying to get my attention, and I really do want to talk to her, communicate with her, anything... .

Oh, NC is hard... .

Yup!

NC is incredibly tough--probably harder than dealing with her crap.  But it's the only way. It helps pwBPD to settle their feelings, and allows us nons a chance to rebuild/recharge-work on ourselves. And look a little more objectively at the r/s.

It's a struggle not to call or text. I'm with you right now on that one. And I jump everytime the phone rings or I hear someone outside. She has a special ringtone, so I know if it's her.

But will I answer and say "Hi" like nothing happened. Or read her text and see what she wants? Or just delete without even looking. I don't know at this point.

The part of our rational brain that sees this whole experience as damaging and unhealthy wants to take over and block her out, perhaps even move on.(I see that in your posts as well). But our heart is pulled to be with her, and try to recapture at least some of that darn magic from the infatuation stage.

Some part of me even wants to just move on with someone else, despite that the lessons tell me how wounded I am. At least I wouldn't be looking around for her. But that's not a good scenario either.

NC IS tough. Hang in there, Bass. 

So many people telling me different things... . ugh... . I might have Dependent Personality Disorder (no formal diagnosis but I fit the symptoms just right), it's hard for me to maintain an opinion if people tell me otherwise... . contact, no contact, calling, no calling, I don't know... . all I know is that my heart wants her but there are so many ways to handle this situation and I don't know which one is right and I sometimes seek validation to follow my feelings, even when it's a situation where 10 people tell me one thing and 1 person tells me something else, but that something is closer to what I feel, I will see that as validation for my actions... .

This DPD is probably caused by my childhood... . firstborn, first grandchild, always expecting so much from me "you have to study" "you have to get enlisted" "you have to this, you have to that"... . nobody ever asked me what I WANT, just told me what I NEED. Combine that with school bullying, excommunication, family problems and broken self-confidence and that results in what I am today... . but I'm finally starting to break free from these chains, no longer being a people-pleaser.

Rat, have you ever been in this position before? the breakup and NC? if so, what happened and how/when did she come back?

In, short, she told me we were done, didn't have feelings for me anymore, didn't want to move with me to our new place, etc.

So I moved to new place, she stayed at her place. Went NC on her. Nothing. Didn't even want reports from her roomate. Like you, we had plans for an event. I did text her few days before it-asked if she still wanted to go. She texted yes, and set a meeting place, but then suddenly cancelled an hour before meeting with some lame excuse.

Few days later she called and asked a small favor for the dog. I granted that, but nothing more, no r/s convo.  Then few days later she called and we started talking again. after more than a month we went out, and she came to stay with me for a weekend--never left until last weekend. She kinda broke up, moved all her stuff out back to her place.

Now she "doesn't have time for a SO, with work and obligations, etc." However, when I asked if we are going to see other people, she got upset and said that she still wants to hang out weekends, and "we'll cross that bridge if we come to it."

So... . after 3 weeks NC last time, she used an event to contact me with something she needed. Then built from there to move back into my life and apt.

Hope that helps... . Remember, your results may vary.

FWIW, most of the readings I've read say NC is the way to go, until she contacts you.  But then also read that " It is very difficult for pwBPD to break NC and initiate.

Yes, it's confusing... . I feel your pain, Bass!

Oh, that IS confusing, but I think I have some understanding of what's going on. One thing about my ex - she's NEVER the first one to contact when she gets into an argument with someone, she'll be silently waiting for the other person to make the first move.

I think I'll contact her first before the concert (if she won't contact me by then), to see if she wants to go together, whatever happens - happens. After that - we'll see. I'll contact her a few weeks before the concert, if she won't agree/answer, I'll just find a friend that'll go with me instead.

I know it's very difficult a pwBPD to initiate, that's why I'll give her time but if not - I'll initiate. I need to be the bigger man here.

Bass here... . been spending the whole day recording a few tracks for the band's debut demo CD, feel so great yet so empty... . I want to share my excitement with her, to tell her what I feel, I just miss that so much... . on the ride home I was feeling so accomplished and then I thought "wow, there's more to life than just her, I barely thought about her today" and then it hit me - what if it's the same with her? what if she barely thinks about me anymore... . I know those "games" were most likely a sign she's not completely "over me", but I don't know... .

Stopped by my grandparents' home on my way back, my grandma told me she had a dream about my ex... . weird, considering she saw her only a few times... . yesterday was also our one month "breakup anniversary"... . such a weird coincidence.

I sometimes don't believe she has BPD... . although the FOG has mostly faded away, I still get these "pulses" of guilt, I did behave like a maniac during my anger outburst and that's what initiated her feelings... . and my constant pursuit for answers "sealed the deal" on her end... .

I saw so many girls today (I live in a pretty small city and we rehearse and record in a studio in a much larger city  about an hour away) and felt NOTHING, no attraction, no butterflies, I only felt a little bit of disgust to be honest... . I saw a couple kissing at the bus stop and wished someone would run them over... . I despise couples ever since the breakup... .

I miss her so much... . the thought of her never coming back is unacceptable... . I love her... . and I hope my prayers will be answered and everything will be resolved at the concert... .

On the one hand, it is good to hear about the recording! On the other, I am sorry to hear about the thoughts about the relationship and the guilt. I still have guilt issues that I am wrestling with.

It sounds like you are grieving, which you should be doing after the breakup of a relationship that you cared about, right? Missing her, not wanting to jump into a new relationship, and feeling guilty are normal, right? Where might dissociating, painting her black, jumping into a new relationship or fling, etc. to avoid painful feelings get you?

Why do you think that you acting like a maniac triggered her feelings? Weren't there other BPD signs, maybe much more subtle, before that?

Do you feel that you should feel something for other women at this point? If so, why?

What are your thoughts about couples? Do you think that you should feel positive about couples at this point?

I'm not trying to get into a new relationship, not anytime soon at least. I'm in my 20's and she was my first for a reason - I usually have no interest whatsoever in most people, I just don't care about them, It takes something UNIQUE to impress me, even though I'm generally considered a good listener, it doesn't mean I care.

I don't feel like I'm grieving, well maybe I am but I'm seriously afraid... .I'm afraid to move on, I don't want to. I remember hearing a song a long time ago and it said "I'd rather feel pain than nothing at all", that's where I stand right now... . I don't want to let her go, because I feel like that would be giving up... . and I'm not a quitter.

I feel like what I did was the thing that triggered her the most, I don't know for certain if she had other skeletons in her closet, but she did act like a waif BPD, at least to others, I didn't see it. Come to think of it, she sometimes made excuses not to see me ("honey, you worked hard, you're tired, it's best if you don't come" told her I wasn't tired at all "please, rest, I know you're tired", told her again I'm not tired, in fact quite energetic and excited to see her, "please... . I'm crying... .just rest,, please", she said phrases like "I feel like I'm not doing anything in this relationship. look at you, here beside me, taking care of me, and how do I contribute to it?", was extremely happy to see me when I came to see her the last few times and when she thought I was mad (I wasn't) she went into the bathroom and started crying because she thought she upset me . The breakup happened around the time her relationship with her parents and sister suddenly got better... . probably triangulating? Those were subtle signs I didn't notice when they happened, and when I did notice them I thought it was her depression acting up... .

I don't know what I think I feel, I just feel it. For years I considered women, especially interesting ones, something out of reach, something magical, and couples were "living the dream" in my eyes. When me and my girlfriend got together I was ecstatic, I always told her to look at other couples and told her they didn't have the same magic we had. I considered our relationship a godsend, like we were made for each other, we had chemistry I didn't see in any other couple, our own "language". Now I look at women and I feel betrayed, like a kid who found out Santa isn't real and then sees one at the mall. They're fake, they're all fake. and the couples - I resent their happiness, why? am I not good enough for that happiness? am I destined for a life of loneliness? It seriously disgusts me... . and the worst part is that they DON'T APPRECIATE IT. They treat it as a "phase", "just another relationship" - you're living the dream, why aren't you appreciating it?

*long sigh* I just want her back... . I can't detach... .I don't want to... . took me so long to find someone I could actually trust... .someone I could finally "give myself" to... .been saving myself for my one and only (it may sound ridiculous coming from an ex-solider in his 20's, but that's what I believe in)... .I want to be that guy who met his soul mate and they were each other's "one and only"... . I want her back so much... . 

Having daily episodes of depression... .was walking a friend home, saw the place where we met for our first date... . I was holding back the tears, telling myself my eyes are wet because of the cold wind... .

I feel helpless... . I want her back, and it feels like I've lost her forever... . I keep looking at pictures of her, and I know it's bad for me but I do it anyway... . It hurts so much... .been over a month and I'm still whining here like a little girl... . Sometimes I ask myself what's the point of everything... . I've been keeping myself busy lately but it all feels so empty without her... .it's like you're hungry, and you can eat all you want, and it's delicious, but you have no stomach to process the food... . you keep eating to make the hunger go away but you can't... .

I wish I could just lock myself in a cabin in the woods somewhere far far away... .

Keep posting. I feel for you. I don't think a month is too long to be grieving over a relationship that you cared about. I am at 5 months. I have gotten much better, but I still have times where I miss her. I think that this is the longest I have ever grieved over a relationship. Maybe I should have grieved longer over some of the others?

With respect to looking over old pictures, my feeling is that it is to you. If it helps, do it. If it doesn't, then don't. I do look at old pictures sometimes when I am missing her, and I just say to myself, "It is fine because you miss her." I feel like it passes quickly when I do this. Questioning or trying to avoid feeling like I miss her leads to dwelling for me.

Thanks for the reply.

Thing is I want her back, and there are many ways I can try and do it :

1)NC until a few weeks before the concert, then contacting her to see if she wants to go - either by text or by phone call. Text's can get my message delivered easily, but ignored just as easily. A phone call can be intriguing, making her wonder what is it that I want, but it can just as easily be avoided and my message won't get through, plus the possibility of me mumbling or getting nervous hearing her voice, and her answering in a cold way.

2)NC until the concert, trying to find her there, or let her initiate contact with me to invite me to the concert. seeing her there and making it look like I ran into her by accident, and asking if she wants to hang out.

3)If all fails - NC until her birthday, then using it as a reason to contact her (already did it before with a friend who I haven't talked with in 8 months after a huge fight), and seeing how it goes from there.

These are the only options that I see... . I've never wanted anything more in my life, and I don't take "giving her up" as an option.

Opinions?

Hi Bassoutcast, how's is going today?

NC seemed so contrived and well, attached(!) to a negative, when what I really wanted was closeness and positivity between us.  If I'm all weirded out about how I feel about things (and have been plenty!), it will show up in me and be amplified back by him, full of distortion.

She might very well ignore any future advances you make.  Do you feel ready to accept this as a possible scenario?  A bigger question is, are you willing to let the old relationship go and start anew?  Do you have an idea of what that might look like?  Would you behave any differently around her?  In what ways?

I'm standing with my original suggestion of calling her up the old fashioned way and asking her if she'd like to go to the concert (do you have an extra ticket?)  Then taking it from there... .  It's a pretty simple question to a pretty simple request, that you would really like to go to this concert together.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Have confidence in yourself, Bass!  If she says no, you'll survive  

Thanks for the reply.

If it's with her, I'm ready to start anew. I had a talk with my sister today and I told her I miss being in a relationship so much, that I want the warmth of another person hugging me, sharing my stories, but I'm afraid, terrified to let someone into my heart and start from scratch, only to end up feeling like this despite all of the promises. She told me it's never certain how long a relationship may last, and it's only natural to feel this way when it ends. I think that given this possible ending - I'd rather it'd be my ex and not someone else, at least we have a history together.

Sure I'd behave differently - I'd still remain my core self, of course, but there are things I'd do differently. I learned what it is that amplifies my rage episodes and by experimenting on myself found ways to drastically reduce it, haven't had a single outburst since the breakup (although was very close, which got me to realize what it is that boosts my temper). I've also been applying some of the techniques I learned in the right column lessons in conflicts I've had with friends and family and the result was quite pleasant. I turned more "docile" in my nature, I think this'll help too. I've realized that despite my own issues, I have to be her rock and support her, but it doesn't mean I'll keep my feelings bottled up - I have a great support system of friends and family that'll help me with that.

I like your idea, but I don't have a spare ticket... .they're pretty pricey (roughly 85$, tax included) and It's quite a risk to buy an extra ticket and having her turn me down. plus, when I told her about the concert she said "I'll buy a ticket today", but considering her past excuses, "memory slips" and other mumbo-jumbo, I can't really take her word for it 100%.

I'm doing better, by the way. Although the depression still hits like a wrecking ball from time to time, I've been able to zone-out of it. Actually spent most of my free time today reading a book a friend lent me, hardly had time to think about my ex with such a fascinating novel, so that helps. Think I might as well go get a library card with all the reading I've been doing recently.

Hmm.  Is it something that's going to sell out?  Would you buy her a ticket if she said yes?


|iiii :)

I seriously doubt it selling out, but it's a possibility. I don't know if I'd buy her a ticket if she said yes - if she was still my girlfriend I'd do it in a heartbeat, but she's my ex... .

If she won't answer my call and won't call me later, should I just text her?

I'd like to mention I've had the weirdest dream tonight... . assigned to solve a mystery with another girl by my good friend, similar to the book I'm reading (same friend who lent me the book). the girl was dressed exactly like my ex was in a picture of her I sometimes look at, and had some of my ex's physical traits, but to an extreme (my ex cut her hair - this girl's hair was SHORT, my ex is strawberry blonde - this girl was pale blonde, etc). after it ended we kissed and I didn't feel anything, even thought about my ex while we were kissing... .

I have no idea what this dream means, only a few hunches and guesses... .

Yep, she's your ex.  The old relationship is done, over.  Whatever the two of you were doing, the way you were trying to connect to each other, didn't work.  If there's no future for the two of you, you will remain each other's exes and that's a very real possibility.


I wouldn't if I were you, but I'm not you so... .

I'm wondering what the reason would be for texting if she won't answer your call?  If she won't answer or return your call, then that in itself it saying something pretty clearly; she doesn't want to talk to you (or is not ready to talk to you or might not ever be willing to talk to you... .)  That would sting, but think about it... .  Would you really want to be at a concert with someone who won't even talk to you?  How fun would that be?

I'm suggesting asking her to go to the concert together, knowing that you both love the band(s), that's all.  A date!  Not a continuation of your old relationship, that's over.  Start anew.

I guess you do have a point, if she won't answer and won't return my call - I shouldn't really try anything else. That'd be pushing her boundaries, and we all know how that ended.

I've had an "epiphany" today - despite what she was saying and how she broke up with me, she did it when we couldn't see each other as much and I was upset because of it. I think it triggered a fear of abandonment in her, fearing that I'll eventually leave her because our dates always cancel at the last moment, so she did what she thought was best - cut off all ties, and no matter how much I tried to communicate with her she wouldn't reply, it was only when she saw a "way out" in one of my texts she initiated an argument which eventually led to the breakup. She already did it once before - about 2 weeks into the relationship we were out on a date, walking. She suddenly started walking faster and I thought something I did/said made her upset so I kicked a trash can saying "dammit". I asked her what's wrong, she thought I was upset with her, and that I was "sick of her", I asked her why in the world would I be sick of her, she said "I don't know, everyone gets sick of me eventually, I thought you did too"... .we both realized it was a misunderstanding and continued to enjoy the date... .

I will ask her out, but I don't know about the ticket, seems risky. Most of my friends don't like that kind of music and the only one who does will be on duty far away from home on the day of the concert (also in the army).

Yea, don't want to be pushing someone's boundaries.  Pushing feels aggressive, yuck.  Respecting other's boundaries is the way to go |iiii


Well, that's your call.  I'm just imagining asking her out and then not being able to purchase a ticket, but that's the way my mind works.  Oh the drama that would be involved in that lol  If it's for sure not a sellout and she says yes, you could get a ticket then... .?

Thing is - she said she'll get a ticket, I just don't want her to go alone. Then again , she does have her twin sister she might go with, I don't know. It might even turn out that she does have a ticket, but I'll offer her a spare ticket and she'll end up bringing her sister with her ticket and going with mine... . I'm not saying it's likely to happen, but it's sure a possibility (her twin, while un-diagnosed, is 99% BPD by what I've seen, and unlike my ex who's the quiet one - she's the more "common" one - angry, impulsive, goes into tantrums over nothing, etc).

I could get a ticket, but that'd be the same as I did in most of our relationship - putting too much effort into it, throwing my cash around to make her happy (not that she asked for it, I did it because I loved her, but that's one of the mistakes I won't repeat), plus, saying "I have an extra ticket (that costs a lot of money) to see your favorite band" would be kind of suspicious... .the only "excuse" I could use is that my friend who also likes this music wanted to go but he's on duty so I have a spare ticket left... .

Can you please comment on the "epiphany" as well? I'd appreciate it very much :)

Okay... .


That fear of engulfment is something... .

As soon as I saw that term, I went and read through this :

www.vitalitylink.com/article-Spiritual-Growth-and-Well-being-1259-Working-Abandonment-Engulfment-Fears-partner-closeness

I'm the left column, she's the right one... . How to deal with her fear? I have so much love to give but during the end of our relationship (in retrospect) she's been subtly pulling away (i.e : canceling dates at the last minute despite promising to make sure they'll happen, turning off her phone, making excuses, etc), and when she saw a "way out" - she ran, leaving me to believe it was all my fault.

I've read many articles that pwBPD have a fear of abandonment, but never have I come across the fear of engulfment... . she seemed just as committed at the time, but then suddenly said I was pushing her and giving her responsibility she didn't wanted and was moving so fast... . it happened soon after I gave her a key to my place, saying "I think we're ready to make that phase, I trust you, now you always have a place to go to".

What should I do with that fear? how to handle it? won't any further advancements be triggering her fear?

|iiii  That was a good article.


This is the really cool part, Bassoutcast... .  You deal with your fear.  You're so ahead of things already!  You've realized that you fear abandonment!  It's okay

There is so much information available to overcome this |iiii

I've been reading up on dealing with my fear - one of it's main "side effects" is coming off as needy and clingy, which results in a decreased level of attraction in the eye of your partner, ultimately causing him/her to abandon you. I did come off as very clingy towards the end of our relationship, which was the polar opposite of what I was when we were friends and in the beginning of our relationship - caring but in a moderate way, understanding, cynical and funny. I think not only the BPD played a part in the breakup - but her general loss of attraction towards my excessive neediness.

So forget the flowers on her birthday, it'll just come off as desperate again. I'll just text her instead, like a friend. And about the concert - I'll ask her to hang out, but I won't specify it's a date, just hanging out (she knows me well enough to know that if I want it to be a date - I'll say it's a date).

My friend asked a bunch of his female friends for advice after telling them my story, the response was unanimous - "If he wants her back, he's going to have to change", meaning that if I drove her away by constantly pushing her, I'll need to do the exact opposite to get her back.

Thanks :)

As I understand BPD, she struggles with being in both columns. Although she might currently be acting more on the distancer side, a core issue in BPD is fear of abandonment.

What are your thoughts on these two?

To fear abandonment is to dread being left alone. This is a fear not

of loss of self but of gain of self by self-confrontation. Setting time aside for

yourself daily means choosing the very thing you fear. This paradoxical

reversal leads gradually to your enjoying your aloneness.

The actual fears are not of abandonment or engulfment. You are

really fearing the possibility of powerlessness in the face of them. But every time

you choose to work on fear, you become defense-less and resource-full. This

restores trust in your own organismic capacity for self-nurturance and safety

when people get too close or go too far.

I think she does in some way, but the right side is far more vivid in her. I think distancing myself from her and withholding myself from any clingy behavior around her is really the way to go, I feel like it may work. If I'll just be friendly and understanding she'll eventually regain her trust in me, and it might very well re-ignite her love for me.


I feel like I'm doing all of these games for nothing, making my Instagram private , making it so only my contacts could see my information on WhatsApp, etc. If I want to be friendly and inviting, this certainly isn't the way to go right? I should just move on with my life and find happiness in what I do, regardless of her presence in my life (or the lack of it)... . I think I should just let my "barriers" down and leave an open route for communication.

Opinions?

Does this feel like the right path for you?  Does it give you a sense of peace and calm? 

I feel like it's the path that gives me the biggest sense of "inner peace". I already opened my lines of communication before I wrote this comment, now she'll know I'm not trying to desperately get her back, while on the other hand not playing her games and blocking her. It's basically saying "I'm here if you'll ever want to get in touch" without actually saying anything.

I feel so much better after doing that. 

Aw good, Bass :)

Are you doing anything tonight not at all involved with figuring things out?  That was a toughie for me, 'cuz my mind likes to think, haha.  Turning it all off and finding ways to simply relax has been just a gift.  But sometimes, I can't get enough of all this stuff.  Accepting ourselves is pretty profound, also.

Actually I live in Europe so it's very late ATM  lol . I've been relaxing with music (playing songs, working on my band's demo, writing), went to the public library to get the sequels to the book my friend lent me (Dan Brown's material, I love his writing, highly recommend anyone who's into literature to try it out).

I always use music or books to "zone out" and lock myself inside my little own world.

They sound like hobbies to me, that speak to who you are :)

*mod*

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .