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One of the hardest things for me is going from being told regularly "I'm the most amazing , handsome , intelligent , sexy man" and having my xpwBPD hang on my every word agree with almost anything and everything  to the last couple of years of hearing that less and less to more criticism and finally I don't respect you , your a great guy but... .

Your an ass%%% because of xyz

How did you guys/gals bounce back after being knocked off the pedestal ?

By removing her from my life and surrounding myself with supportive people, including here.  What if there are two kinds of people, the ones who bring us up and the ones who bring us down?  Then what if the secret to life is surrounding ourselves with the people who bring us up and removing the ones who bring us down, continuously until we create a personal Nirvana.  In that light, which side of the fence does your ex belong on?

And: Do you keep yourself down, or help yourself up?

One great thing to do is believe in yourself. That your intuition is correct, that you can put the pieces together, that you're worth sharing love with. That you're growing through this.

Realize that the pedestal isn't really real, and you're better off not on it.

Everything was heaven the 1st year. I was told I was her Rock, her go to guy, the only one that understood, only person that had ever brought any consistency and stability to her life, etc., etc to eventually being told I was a little man, (I'm not very tall, about 5'8", she's 5'3" a loser, abusive etc. Along with the emotional abuse, lying, orbitors and X's that were always in the back ground it all got to me as well as the multiple break ups. As previously mentioned it almost killed me. Right now I'm dealing post 30+ days of N/C and I'm dealing with difficult emotions, but they are "manageable" and not gut wrenching. My blood pressure is back under control and so is my depression. I still love her, miss her but each day that passes, each post I read here (I didnt have this resource before) the more I see I MUST muster the strength to keep letting each day go by until one day I am 6 months N/C, then one day she simply becomes a distant memory and learned experience. Yeah,the idealism was soo awesome! But despite several recycles all she could ever say was how "things were just not the same."

Thankfully the orbiters were only present for me in the last few months or so

The idealisation wanned to nothing but it was never rapid or as extreme as yours dagwood it was more wow u a god to I'm not happy its my fault  your not a god bye

With criticism and resentment ever building in the last few years along with paranoia

Dagwood think of each days nc like training  each day chips away till you win the prize or you hit a PR which is six months nc

"That's [narciss]ism man. I love to [narciss]ism bro!" 

It's a eastbound and down reference.  "Kenny powders... .powders... .powders"

Not when it works both ways Blim; it's a reciprocity thing, unlike borderline relationships.

Well what you described is narcissism! Lol you cast other people into a black and white context depending on if they help you achieve your personal nirvana.  Other people become a means to your end which is your nirvana if they cease to serve that purpose they slide into the bringing you down category and are discarded like objects.  That is what you described which is textbook narcissism.  

Have you seen eastbound and down?   That show helped me a BUNCH to help identify my own narcisism i super highly recomend it. 

It depends how you define nirvana; how about not settling for unsupportive people, among a group of people who hold the same standard for themselves, to create a personal nirvana for each and a corresponding reciprocal group nirvana.  Insisting your needs get met and aren't violated is not narcissism, it's healthy boundaries.  Sign me up!

Nope, I don't watch TV, but I think that show has been around for a while so folks must be into it.

Ahhh you gotta watch the eastbound and down series. It's comedic genius.  He highlights the absurdity of narcissism but somehow makes it relatable and forgivable.  The familiarity with the scenerios in that show help by making me think of Kenny powers when I do recognize narcissism to be able to empathize with it and ultimately forgive it cuz it's a part of all of us but it's easy to get caught up in. 

The personal nirvanna isn't the thing that stood out to me. It is the objectification of the "other."  When the other is objectified they become a container to hold the parts of ourself e have difficulty accessing.  Our ability to comprehend the depth and complexity of the other outside the context of our own personal reality becomes compromised because they are an object and as such an extension of ourselves. That's not personal nirvanna it's a prison for your mind.

Yeah, I know Blim, everything's a deep psychological construct with you, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.  There are people I like and people I don't, simple as that, my ex being one I don't but used to, and to quote Conundrum, all things change.  Go ahead, tell us you like everyone and don't objectify anything, and while you're at it, let's focus on the OP's issue, dobie's having challenges.

Lol. I do it too the thing is it's hard to recognize when it is I am doing it!  Narcissism is the thing we are all her examining. 

I really doubt that you hold everyone to the standard you originally described.  I'm just pointing out that the model you describe in your text is narcissism we adapt it to be able to compartmentalize when it suites our ego as a survival strategy.   That's the thing though it's not nirvanna.  Nirvanna translates to  awaken. i think Lacans theories will help to see mastersons theories of the real and th false self in a new light.  Also Lacans concepts of otherness, desire and the real can I think bridge the gap between western thought and eastern thought and it really just opens up the concepts in mastersons book as much more far reaching than the psychiatric model. 

Semantics: I didn't know nirvana meant awaken, I was using the pop culture meaning.  Anyway, while psychological theories are interesting I'm only a little motivated to study them and how they relate to macro societal issues; they pale in comparison to emotional connection to humans and mutual compassion, validation and empathy.  You've studied a lot though, so keep sharing, and I wonder how dobie's doing tonight.

Well I've really barely studied it at all. Truth be told it mainly been analyzing what bothers me. Not even really analyzing. I guess just leaning into the pain then all of a sudden some random symbol or pattern that plays out will connect to a bunch of memories that and I remember a sort of psychological or social theory I never learned about that influenced i guess media I had seen throughout my life that was influenced by those theories.  Then I look up the symbols that lead me to either myths or theories that confirm the memories. Lately the symbol for me has been the "hat man." And african pygmies.  Jung calls it shadow work. Gnostics call it following the images. 

But yeah ok the leaving Board when I see a sort of model that for some reason bothers me I just try to understand why. 

Yeah.  Lean into the pain.

So deciding that someone is bad for you overall and then choosing not to spend time with them is now narcissism.

Lol no that's not the original text.  the original text describes a model I merely pointed out what that model is.  It then delineated and invoked other images to hide behind. And by "it" I mean the following texts.

We're all here examining our narcissism and trying to come to terms with the pain it has been hiding from us all these years.  Our narciissm created attractive models of reality to hide from our pain. For a while on these boards I sort of bought into that and then it blew up in my face so for a while when I saw Narcisissm sort of repackage itself attractively it would trigger me so I leaned into my pain and decided to explore it when I see it to understand the other.  When it gets really triggering for me is right when I'm about to confront myself.   

One of the reasons so many of us ended up in the situations we're talking of here is that we didn't deeply feel we were lovable. We didn't actually believe in our true selves. Why? Where does that come from? It's different for each of us but there are many commonalities. The goal is to work through and move past that which holds us back, even when/ especially when it is ourselves. How much time have we spent idealizing and devaluing ourselves, instead of seeing ourselves for who we really are? How much longer will we do so? Whatever terms you want to use, for best results, look into your own mirror not someone else's. The more balanced, the better off.

The validation has to come from within.  Others people value is inherent becuase they exist not because they validate us or not. Consciousness has value onto itself because it is concious not because it serves us. Respect

I guess how I coped with the I/d situation was by knowing that normal people don't do that to their partner, therefore there was something 'wrong' with him and not me. I also have a strong sense of self and a pretty good support system. The fact that he could flip his feelings about me like a switch is what disturbed me the most.

And here I will clarify on narcisissm from the top of my head I define it as this.  Narcissm is basically an inner construct that objectifies. Other people to allow you to project your inner crap into the idea of an "other." This allows you to create a false image of yourself in relation to this "other."   

So narcissism isn't necisarily the big bad wolf lol I think we look up narcissm on the net and we run into junk psychology then build up some idea of narcissism that is essentially malignant narcissism and psychopathy.

Everyone's narcissistic, it's a matter of degree.  Healthy narcissism is the opposite of insecurity in self, unhealthy narcissism manifests as grandiosity and extreme vanity, and taken to the extreme it has it's own personality disorder.  As with most things, it's a continuum.

myself:
And a big part of who we really are is who we are in relation to others; the right others can be that balanced mirror.  Yes, self-validation is a goal, and that can be aided or hindered by the validation or lack thereof of others, especially after going through the devaluation stage of a relationship with a borderline.  Which is why it's important to surround ourselves with validating people and the invalidating ones gotta go.

Idk I now see narcissm as some sort of absurd joke.  That's why I made the Kenny powers reference.  It's like some sort of self defeating construct that's like "if I'm going down well I'm taking 'you' with me!"  And "you" just happens to be as much of the entirety of conciousness as possible. 

Modern narcissism has a negative connotation, celebrities and power-hungry CEO's et al, but classic narcissism ala Freud is more benign and realistic, a continuum; the more self esteem someone has, the less extreme the narcissism.  The more narcissistic someone is the less they draw a line between themselves and others, which contrasts with the view that the "other"is a dumping ground for negative sht.

Yeah I think the modern concept of narcissism has made itself into a monster so we can ironically project our inner crap into the idea of narcissism to avoid looking at ourself.  

Not that we necessarily must project our crap into every other but that narcissism is the construct that sort of enables that process.  The other may take the form of a validating object validating some sort of idea of the self in relation to that validation.  That if an object becomes in some way unfavorable allows us to use the mechanism of splitting to protect the self image. That this same construct creates a sort of inner karpman triangle and that's what narcissism is a sort prison for our mind. A mechanism that fragments the psyche to allow us to project And externalized the other aspects of the karpman triangle.  That what we consider healthy narcissism is just when one aligns themself with the victim and the rescuer but the entire foundation of that reality requires a perceived external threat.  

Prisons, threats, hiding from pain, when does it get good Blim?

Well it's not easy but the "bad other" must be confronted and recognized as part of the self.  Then it sort of implodes and becomes a parady of itself.  A sort of absurd cosmic joke. You see all that pain becomes villified and projected  onto an idea of some imagined persecutory other, the idea of leaning into the pain is integrating that into the self but it's difficult because the false self is tricky and hides it.  Carl Jung talks a lot about that with his concepts of the shadow. Shadow projection and shadow work.  Alchemy of turning the led into gold.  It's a painful visceral process that is often terrifying.  It requires the idea of oneself to self destruct and ones entire perception of reality to unravel.  Thus the quote from fight club, "self improvement is masterbation. Self destruction? Now your getting somewhere."

But it is a prison.  Our society is modeled in the same way a huge prison.

Yet it's possible to be fulfilled, optimistic and content anyway, in the face of it all, and I'm sure you'll counter with people who feel that way are really in great pain, they just don't know it, yes?

Ignorance is bliss  :)

I have high school friends that joined those positive thinking "the secret" cults.  They seemed pretty happy and productive turned their lives around etc but the entire basis of their reality is false. They have this hypothetical downer split black that they talk down on and it's in relation to this "other" that they build their false image of themself in relation to.  It works for them but I just can't do it even if I wanted to.

It's always the beta males or the terrorists or the communists.  Now if you can convince yourself it's real then yeah sure ignorance is bliss.

I'm not saying being happy or optimistic is out of the question.  It's more along the lines of it requires empathy to recognize the others pain as your own pain and that wounds you.  The pain is unavoidable and if you don't feel it it is because the "other," is containing it for you.

Again, speak for YOURSELF.  Why in dog's green Earth, do you feel the need to speak for me or others on this issue?

Might I suggest that this pattern is your narcissism?  But there is always a clever out to any statement, right? So long as you are willing to think about why you must be right for a few hours.

I did similar things as you are.  I was young.

Ok except for the people that are just here to validate that it's was all their exs fault lol because the very thing that is creating that block from really taking a hard look at themself is "not their own narcissm." Lol

Yes, Blim is mighty judgmental and lofty, but he's omniscient you see, so we should listen.

Wow! This isn't one of your greatest posts either, heel. You doing alright? Sounds a bit 'judgmental and lofty' yourself, actually. At least you've proven you're not 'omniscient', right? Is how you're reacting because you were feeling more devalued than idealized, and it got your dander up? You like it better when people don't call you on your stuff? There's still time, you can work through that, we're here to help. You can say it's because blimblam was being a _____, but he's respectfully sharing what he's learned (without resorting to name calling and etc.), and yes we should listen to him same as we should you. If we choose to, and it helps with our own healing. That's what this is supposed to be about. It's a chance for each of us here to express ourselves, be heard, and have some conversation about it. Parts of this thread seem to show that some people insist on having the last word, which does show narcissistic traits when you're honest about it. Could be blimblam's been onto something all along, and it just touched a nerve?

But hey, in the meantime, take care a you! Peace.

Lol.  I called a spade a spade. You are not the spade.  No one is narcissism it's just some sort of structure.  I'm not even sure if it is the structure is more like the illusion that different aspects of the structure as a whole are seperate and to be pit against each other.  Those in uncomfortable feelings are not me tey are not even Blimblam.  They are there to remind you there is a part of yourself you are not aware of.  A vulnerable part of you that feels pain that you are ashamed of that your psyche has split into an illusionary other. The pain of that other is your own when you know that pain as your own and forgiven it you will know yourself. It's an ongoing process we never stop learning!

But I am not free of this! But confronting this part of myself has been uncomfortable. The thing is though their are moments that those lost parts in the void are recovered and it is liberating.  Their is probably still more down their im pretty sure of it and it's when I feel discomfort that I am getting close to it.  That's why they say lean into the pain and the Buddhists to find comfort in the discomfort. 

If we adopt a mindset of their are two kind of people good and bad. Bad if they cause me to feel discomfort so teu must be discarded. It's just a way of externalizing the discomfort into an "other." Essentially it's just running away from ourselves and it is really not much different than how a pwBPD runs away from theirself when they split somone and move on. 

There is no "other!"

Just like jon the matrix their is no spoon.

Lean into the pain

Wow, it's sad that dobie's original post has been derailed.  Perhaps one of you can start a new thread about narcissism?

Yes, dobie, being knocked off the pedestal was really painful.  So painful, in fact, that I tried to deny that it was happening for a while.

There's a lot of reasons why it was painful... .one of the biggest for me is that I began to find my identity in helping her improve her life (and by default, the quality of her daughter's life).  I was also in love, and to be devalued by someone who knows you better than anyone in the world is just HARD.

It's taught me valuable lessons, though... .about not finding my identity through a relationship; about being secure enough in myself to recognize emotionally abusive behavior; about the importance of having a healthy dose of self esteem (and getting OUT when someone starts to chip away at it).

I know you won't want to hear this, but it takes time to bounce back. There's no substitute for time, unfortunately. I'm also seeing a T, which helps with processing the grief.